EPTTL Mafia Ban List 2.0 - Page 60
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Message GMarshal if you request a ban please ^_^ Also when the game you're sitting out is over! ~GMarshal | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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geript
10024 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Can I randomly talk to marv, Foo, syllo, sandro, and anybody I want about the game at any time (regarding a game I am playing in)? Is it a coach, where he just tells you stuff and you keep quiet, or is it a back and forth sort of thing? Can it involve reads of the game? Can it involve important stuff about the game that may change how you think about it? This seems too vague. GM, you seem to put everything under "having a casual discussion about the game". That's not private coaching, that's having a casual discussion about the game. There are different varieties of "talking about game outside of it", it's not all put under the same umbrella. Even then, what type of casual discussion about the game can you have? If it's small talk just to make fun of Prome then I'm all for it. But when you go into the game itself, and said "casual discussion" leaves an impact on the player about how he should play that specific game, then something is wrong. Everything that should impact a player regarding the game, should happen in-game (i'd even consider coaching "in-game", in the sense that it's a communication between two people monitored by the host in the qts, and self-contained in the game, one just happens to not be playing in it). Saying "Oh no, rayn wouldn't even listen to marv anyway pfff nothing's wrong" or "Player X wouldn't even have the thread sentiment to lynch that dude, so why does it matter?" doesn't change anything. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On April 16 2014 09:52 geript wrote: Can we all just admit that the drama was way more interesting and fun to read when it involved me? I wholeheartedly agree. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
i disagree. other drama has been pretty stupid and pointless and has invloved trivial things that I don't care about. but do I care about people who aren't ni a game having an effect on the game? yes. so you guys can do want you want. but if I host a game again then I am going to emphasize my stance on this, that people who aren't on the player list shouldn't have any impact on a game whatsoever. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On April 16 2014 19:36 thrawn2112 wrote: also I think that someone else should take over running the banlist. GM usually makes great decisions when he's around to make them, but usually he's not around to make them. so I'd either like to see GM be more proactive about staying on top of current events or he should step aside and let someone else do it. There is no urgency in addressing potential issues. In addition, I do not think there are any active TL mafia members who could do as good job as GM is doing. | ||
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OdinOfPergo
United States840 Posts
On April 16 2014 19:36 thrawn2112 wrote: also I think that someone else should take over running the banlist. GM usually makes great decisions when he's around to make them, but usually he's not around to make them. so I'd either like to see GM be more proactive about staying on top of current events or he should step aside and let someone else do it. I really don't think that's necessary. GM does a fine job and I don't think his activeness is an issue here. This sub has a habit of blowing up issues 8-20 pages long from time to time. You're asking for a lot if you expect someone to be here all the time for the rarer occasions this actually happens. Decisions take time to come to and I'd suspect that there is possibly things going on behind the scenes that most of us don't see. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On April 16 2014 19:58 thrawn2112 wrote: yeah, the current situation has clearly been met with a firm decision that addresses the issues that have been pointed out, and we are much better off now that gm posted a wishywashy stance that solves nothing. Yes, I'm quite disappointed that he did not say anything about what marv allegedly did. I find that to be much worse then the toad/fool-thing. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On April 16 2014 20:07 phagga wrote: Yes, I'm quite disappointed that he did not say anything about what marv allegedly did. I find that to be much worse then the toad/fool-thing. Did you read the marv/rayn conversation? While he shouldn't have done that, it was essentially nothing. Rayn had made a case and Marv applauded him for it. This was on day 1, so he likely had additional information. He did address the broader issue, which is that people who aren't completely uninformed observers shouldn't talk to players about the game. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On April 16 2014 20:30 thrawn2112 wrote: So it's ok to cheat if it doesn't have a noticible effect on the game? It's not cheating if you truly are an uninformed observer, but it is better just to agree to never talk to players if you have access to obs QT or otherwise give the appearance of not being completely uninformed. Apparently the QT was essentially empty except for Marv's own posts. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
I thought it was common knowledge that older players especially will chat about games they're in to their friends, I can think of several examples. edit: I would freely add that on several occasions I have been asked for advice (from mafia players) on potential nightkills, and have happily given my opinion + reasoning | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On April 16 2014 20:31 syllogism wrote: It's not cheating if you truly are an uninformed observer, but it is better just to agree to never talk to players if you have access to obs QT or otherwise give the appearance of not being completely uninformed. Apparently the QT was essentially empty except for Marv's own posts. Maybe it's not "cheating" but it ruins the integrity of the game. A game has X number of townies, not X + "uninformed observers". Say there's a uninformed observer who is really good at meta reading X player. X player is scum. The uninformed observer gives a townie his OP meta read on player X. Is it fair that the scum team has to deal with that? Of course not. Nobody would say that's fair. Anyone who rolled mafia in that game would be angry and with good cause. Now the specifics of the situation in the game we're talking about shouldn't matter, because what's unfair is unfair. You can't make a rule that says "you can talk about the game with people who aren't in the game only if it's not going to have an effect on the game" because that's unenforcable and stupid. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On April 16 2014 20:33 marvellosity wrote: I thought it was common knowledge that older players especially will chat about games they're in to their friends, I can think of several examples. then people should stop.... | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
People will vote with their feet. | ||
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OdinOfPergo
United States840 Posts
On April 16 2014 20:41 DarthPunk wrote: The toad fool thing should not be happening, the marv thing should not be happening. Want to talk about the game. Use the obs qt and stay the fuck away from players in the game. If people are really that lackadaisical about people crossing lines so be it. People will vote with their feet. This much I do agree with. This should just be a line that's not to be crossed. If you want to chat about the game, use the obs. Not the players in the game. Like this is the entire reason I assumed obs were used in the first place. The only exception to this in my mind would be coaching. Which should (and is as I understand it?) be left open to the host. Personal opinion, if a player has a coach it should probably also be listed in the OP. But on my previous statement I don't think "changing management" is going to solve the issue. I'm not going to talk for GM here but this issue is obviously still an open book right now. Which means something more will obviously be done about it. This is a really easy issue to solve in my eyes. As a community we just stop doing it. If it gets ignored then meh, you're probably right. People will vote with their feet. | ||
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