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Message GMarshal if you request a ban please ^_^
Also when the game you're sitting out is over!
~GMarshal |
United States22154 Posts
I addressed the Toad/Foolishness issue, since no one has actually given me any evidence on the marv thing, and I'm not particularly inclined to go looking for it. As I stated, this isn't really a banlist issue, because no one has requested bans and none of the hosts involved in the situation have said anything as far as I know. I don't know what you guys are hoping I'll do here? I've been given... nothing to work with, and am somehow expected to give policy on an issue that is ultimately up to the people that host games. I don't dictate the rules, I enforce the ones set down and approved by the community. If I *did* dictate the rules, mafia would run a lot differently.
So yeah, what is it exactly I'm being wishy washy about? I said "I don't think what Toad and Foolishness did deserves consequences." and "I agree that people who have the obs shouldn't talk with people who don't about the game" oh and "People should refrain from posting about discussions they've had with people outside the game, in the game". But the bottom line is this all boils down to common sense, should I be writing extensive guidelines setting out exact boundaries of what can and can't be said that I could never ever enforce? Because omniscience isn't in the tool arsenal I've been given.
If someone wants to add rules about talking with people outside the game or such to the OP of their games, or make it standard for all games, go for it! But unless someone brings me evidence that marv cheated, and someone (preferably the hosts) requests a reasonable punishment, I'm not actually in a position to do anything. The bottom line, the banlist is here to enforce the rules, while I also welcome discussion of the rules here, I'm *not* here to make the rules, that's up to the community and the people who actually host games.
So yeah, if you guys feel strongly that no one should talk to anyone about the game except in obs QTs, you're welcome to make that a rule. If you guys wanna say "you can talk about the game with outside observers, but can't talk about them in thread" go for it. If you guys want to decide to use common sense about what can be said to other people when discussing a game you're not in, that would work too.
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Please stop discussing if someone else should take over the banlist. GMarshal is probably one of the most fair person on this forum and it's not his job to make rules but to act as a judge if rules were followed or not.
Apparently it's not against the rules to discuss games with people who are not in the game here on TL so i retract from all my cheating statements. It's another discussion and doesn't belong here.
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I guess this sort of comes down to "the rules are what's written in the OP and nothing else?"
Like how it's allowed to use google to find scum qts?
So IMO "if you are playing a game, no talking about the game outside of the game" should be added to the op of future games, just like it is in the op of the irc channel
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On April 16 2014 23:28 strongandbig wrote:
I guess this sort of comes down to "the rules are what's written in the OP and nothing else?"
Like how it's allowed to use google to find scum qts?
So IMO "if you are playing a game, no talking about the game outside of the game" should be added to the op of future games, just like it is in the op of the irc channel
That isn't what GM said at all. All he said is that if you want marv/rayn banned for this, you'll need to present evidence. And that this evidence should preferrably be presented by the host, although if the host is entirely ambivalent to the situation someone else could be asking for a ban instead (however unusual that is).
As for policy discussion, that's not what the ban list thread is for, but is a topic for the ban list breakout thread, the miscellaneous community thread, the skype channel, IRC or any other of the media we have for such a meta discussion.
So far all lots of people have done here is yell that this should not stand. That's not how the ban list works.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Although I haven't really been involved in this discussion, I have been following along, and I'd like to voice my support for GM.
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11589 Posts
Lots of pitchforks over a trivial issue.
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On April 09 2014 03:15 Hapahauli wrote:
People take themselves way too seriously.
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On April 16 2014 23:28 strongandbig wrote:
Like how it's allowed to use google to find scum qts?
FYI: pretty sure thats in error
No man is an island but scum/mason/host QTs apparently are.
http://www.quicktopic.com/faq.shtml
+ Show Spoiler +
How private is my message board? Will it be indexed by search engines?
It's as private as the URL. In general, search engines won't find it unless you link it from a public web page, though certain browser add-ons can send your page's URL to these services. There's more discussion of this here.
Your topic at Quick Topic is just as private as its web address, and the address is extremely hard to guess. It's a randomly generated string of characters. There are over 53,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 different possible names.
Your page won't be indexed by search engines unless you link to it from a public web page. Search engines work by following links from other pages or by visiting pages purposefully submitted to them. Your Quick Topic discussion pages are isolated "islands" on the web unless you link to them from somewhere.
TLDR: How private is my message board? Will it be indexed by search engines?
Nope.
Not unless a public page links to it... aka after the game they may get indexed not during.
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But Axle, what if snb works for the NSA?
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On April 17 2014 10:19 gonzaw wrote:
But Axle, what if snb works for the NSA?
Then it still wont mean the scum QTs are in google, which is kind of all I (tried to) claim / point out.
Even though I don't work for the NSA either..
I have in fact for 'fun' thought rather more than little about how I could make apparently unbreakable hashes of role claims then in fact later be able to choose which of two or more decryptions I want to use. + Show Spoiler +Also about how to decrypt/break base64/random keytable cipher of unknown but know to be Engrish plain text
and if he does, then winding up in rendition because the idea he misused NSA resource for leverage in game of mafia would be so unbelievable he'd get rubber hosed until he made up a believable lie, that would be considered way worse than being on the ban list by most people. Thus I am not seeing any problems.
FYI:
My sig currently stands at defcon yellow. OnlySomeTheoriesToAbsurdToBeConsidered.
You are pushing the limits here.
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On April 17 2014 14:45 AxleGreaser wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2014 10:19 gonzaw wrote:
But Axle, what if snb works for the NSA? Then it still wont mean the scum QTs are in google, which is kind of all I (tried to) claim / point out. Even though I don't work for the NSA either.. I have in fact for 'fun' thought rather more than little about how I could make apparently unbreakable hashes of role claims then in fact later be able to choose which of two or more decryptions I want to use. + Show Spoiler +Also about how to decrypt/break base64/random keytable cipher of unknown but know to be Engrish plain text But use that kind of haxor in a game nah... not exactly sporting. Many people (still a small fraction of the population) get told about the 'birthday paradox' far fewer have experience at using it in anger so to speak. (on practical novel real world problems) Same and worse for other unnamed things. and if he does, then winding up in rendition because the idea he misused NSA resource for leverage in game of mafia would be so unbelievable he'd get rubber hosed until he made up a believable lie, that would be considered way worse than being on the ban list by most people. Thus I am not seeing any problems. FYI: My sig currently stands at defcon yellow. OnlySomeTheoriesToAbsurdToBeConsidered. You are pushing the limits here.
You want another O my good man.
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The thing with this stuff, is how nothing is "defined" apparently. There are no rules regarding "private coaching" and the like, and hosts don't put them in the OP or care about them (until now I guess).
You might say "Oh, but people are smart, they won't talk to other people outside of the game, those were special circumstance". But you do have people like BH who will try to do whatever he can inside the rules to win. If there are no rules about "private coaching", then what prevents BH from PMing every single player of TL Mafia (outsiders to the current game) after a game starts asking them to give him their reads? He's playing "by the rules" so in his mind there would be no problems, nor in the host's eyes nor in this community apparently.
What prevents anyone doing something like that?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On April 18 2014 01:20 gonzaw wrote:
The thing with this stuff, is how nothing is "defined" apparently. There are no rules regarding "private coaching" and the like, and hosts don't put them in the OP or care about them (until now I guess).
You might say "Oh, but people are smart, they won't talk to other people outside of the game, those were special circumstance". But you do have people like BH who will try to do whatever he can inside the rules to win. If there are no rules about "private coaching", then what prevents BH from PMing every single player of TL Mafia (outsiders to the current game) after a game starts asking them to give him their reads? He's playing "by the rules" so in his mind there would be no problems, nor in the host's eyes nor in this community apparently.
What prevents anyone doing something like that?
1) nobody is as good as I am at hunting scum so why would I talk to them
2) pms not allowed in the rules of games i host
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On April 18 2014 02:01 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2014 01:20 gonzaw wrote:
The thing with this stuff, is how nothing is "defined" apparently. There are no rules regarding "private coaching" and the like, and hosts don't put them in the OP or care about them (until now I guess).
You might say "Oh, but people are smart, they won't talk to other people outside of the game, those were special circumstance". But you do have people like BH who will try to do whatever he can inside the rules to win. If there are no rules about "private coaching", then what prevents BH from PMing every single player of TL Mafia (outsiders to the current game) after a game starts asking them to give him their reads? He's playing "by the rules" so in his mind there would be no problems, nor in the host's eyes nor in this community apparently.
What prevents anyone doing something like that? 1) nobody is as good as I am at hunting scum so why would I talk to them 2) pms not allowed in the rules of games i host
What if it was a conversation when going to the airport? If the rules say you can't talk via PMs, then fine, you can play by that rule, but you can still communicate with users not playing the game outside of PMs, therefore you are technically not breaking any rules.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On April 18 2014 06:44 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2014 02:01 Blazinghand wrote:On April 18 2014 01:20 gonzaw wrote:
The thing with this stuff, is how nothing is "defined" apparently. There are no rules regarding "private coaching" and the like, and hosts don't put them in the OP or care about them (until now I guess).
You might say "Oh, but people are smart, they won't talk to other people outside of the game, those were special circumstance". But you do have people like BH who will try to do whatever he can inside the rules to win. If there are no rules about "private coaching", then what prevents BH from PMing every single player of TL Mafia (outsiders to the current game) after a game starts asking them to give him their reads? He's playing "by the rules" so in his mind there would be no problems, nor in the host's eyes nor in this community apparently.
What prevents anyone doing something like that? 1) nobody is as good as I am at hunting scum so why would I talk to them 2) pms not allowed in the rules of games i host What if it was a conversation when going to the airport? If the rules say you can't talk via PMs, then fine, you can play by that rule, but you can still communicate with users not playing the game outside of PMs, therefore you are technically not breaking any rules.
Lol are you fuckin kidding me, like technically an email or a IM isn't a PM but if someone tried to PM someone by meeting them IRL then claimed it wasn't a PM, I'd ban him so hard his ancestors would be spinning in their graves
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Well, most of this discussion also stemmed from the "If it's not a rule in the OP, it's fine by my books", so don't really take stuff like that for granted
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On April 18 2014 07:06 gonzaw wrote:
Well, most of this discussion also stemmed from the "If it's not a rule in the OP, it's fine by my books", so don't really take stuff like that for granted
So wait I forgot are you a person who thinks it's okay to say "I swear on my life I'm town" or a horrible person
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On April 18 2014 07:25 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2014 07:06 gonzaw wrote:
Well, most of this discussion also stemmed from the "If it's not a rule in the OP, it's fine by my books", so don't really take stuff like that for granted So wait I forgot are you a person who thinks it's okay to say "I swear on my life I'm town" or a horrible person
I am pretty sure an important distinction will be if he swears on your life hes town...
When other people who swear on your life they are town, they are probably not so nice.
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On April 18 2014 07:25 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2014 07:06 gonzaw wrote:
Well, most of this discussion also stemmed from the "If it's not a rule in the OP, it's fine by my books", so don't really take stuff like that for granted So wait I forgot are you a person who thinks it's okay to say "I swear on my life I'm town" or a horrible person
I swear on my life I am.
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where my ban was an inactivity ban, which i nearly avoided (dont think i pmed anyone) id like to merely sit out a game. thanks
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EPT
