Newbie Mini Mafia XLVI
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DeusXmachina
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/obs | ||
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I am ultra pissed at myself. I want to obs this game to learn something before I play another newbie game and fuck it up for the team. | ||
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/in Umasi you should stay in. You are uber good. Whats more important? A good education, a bright future, a good job or being UBER AWESOME at mafia? Common, the answer is obvious. Also I want to try and lynch you day one to enact my revenge. Muahahahaha. | ||
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On August 11 2013 08:04 Alakaslam wrote: Fixed. Keep putting up reads, understand though that a newbie requires more caution between seeing bad town vs scummy. Remedy? Coaches. Guys I practically wasted my newbies basically by talking to coaches only when I was in mind-boggling trouble. Don't wait. Mafia is not flying an airplane. You don't learn by flying solo; you learn by BEING TAUGHT or studying. So just pick a random time and piss off your coach before you stop chatting with him/her. (A little hyperbole there). Feel free to quote the thread, ask I something is scummy etc, because this will help you learn how to make reads. I was barely getting by, because of actually all 3 coaches but how Geript helped is a different story (helped depersonalize the game a bit) but basically I would have ceded even faster. If I had sought coaching earlier, I might have avoided a lot of the trouble I created for myself. Good advice slam. I should have pmed Hapa more. Also sorry for tunneling you at the end . | ||
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On August 12 2013 11:21 Umasi wrote: haha, class starts in a week for me, so if this game takes let's say two more to start, then three days per day/night cycle, by the beginning of day three I'd be busy doing things (like arguing with cops) Well if you get to class early, lets say 15 minutes, you could read the thread. If you use public transportation, 20 mins. A boring lecture, 50-75 minutes. Studying in the library? Fuck that. 30 minutes. Break in between classes, 30 minutes. It adds up so quickly. At a party? 1 hour. | ||
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On August 13 2013 09:26 iamperfection wrote: /in I think most people would agree that you are too newb for this game. | ||
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On August 16 2013 04:51 LoneMeow wrote: But is there any reason for town to lie? So in the unlikely situation that you DO catch someone lying, you'd still rather lynch a lurker? If town is lying why would we want to lynch them? Like I said, you probably won't catch scum lying. Lying won't really tell you much. Lurkers > Liars. | ||
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On August 16 2013 04:58 LoneMeow wrote: Obviously lynching confirmed town because of a lie would be silly, but what about someone most have a weak scum read (or even null) on who's caught lying? Still prefer a lurker lynch over him? While we're on the topic of lurking, do you think there's any real difference between lurking and posting but being useless? Would you (policy) lynch someone who posts but doesn't have any real content? If you have a weak scum read on someone and they lie, well that might be evidence against them. I would try to understand the intentions behind the lie. Not crazy about the lynch liars policy. I don't know how to define lurking, but people who are being useless are equally as bad as lurkers. In fact, in some situations, I think spammers can be more detrimental to town than lurkers. I equate non-contribution to scum. I am glad you brought this up. I was thinking about this a lot in my last game. On August 16 2013 05:04 iVLosK! wrote: Yeah lynch all liars and no lurking! And anything else that sounds pro-town! C'mon guys. No fucking duh. I have a policy of lynching people who say stupid, obvious shit. What do you think of them apples, flare, deus, and LM? Well this is a newb game. Hopefully players can read some of the initial policy and learn what not to do. Lynching people who say stupid stuff got me into a lot of shit my last game. That being said, I am all for aggressive play and doing whatever it takes to weed out scum. | ||
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On August 16 2013 06:32 justanothertownie wrote: So, how much experience do you have? I guess you played 1 game on TL... other sites? Why do you ask? | ||
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On August 16 2013 06:43 justanothertownie wrote: Because he makes it look like is very experienced and after playing one game this seems odd to me. I would like to know if he is just a show off or actually not really a newbie because it might influence my read on him later on. If I had to guess I would lean slightly townie on iV because of his aggressive first post (not counting the rap). Although, one post is virtually nothing to go on. Especially the first one. Your guess on iV JAT? | ||
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On August 16 2013 12:56 Alakaslam wrote: Actually it was lynching the spammer- many of the things I said were trying to express my opinions, spamming was me trying to dick around. I promise not to do that anymore except maybe in spoilers if I can't help it. Therefore I am really glad you laid this out. There may be people like me who just get the juices flowing and go nuts, they will disregard you until they are the scummy one tunneling the wrong guy at Lylo- then they will have to fight not to become stimaddict 2.0, (sorry bout that but u know its true ing one) so like I say- rock and a hard place with "don't spam don't lurk" for me- so gimme a little grace and I will try to help out. For now, I have this: Ivlosk! - town, he is bamcis for lookin so, especially so early, therefore keep an eye out for even more badass scum play later if I am wrong (and I am wrong often...) HolyFlare- kinda early. I'm null, in fact, I'm null on everyone but ivlosk! and myself. It's pretty early guys. "Speak up!" -Seige Tank Driver (selected, Starcraft 2) Fellows, pleeeze!! Okay, sounds good. Biggest scum reads so far, Xzavier and reps. Lol at reps if he becomes a day 1 lynch again. Why am I suspicious? Well, they are lurking, and as I previously mentioned, lurking will not be tolerated. Pretty much neutral on everyone. Although, I am leaning slightly town on JAT. | ||
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On August 16 2013 14:17 Alakaslam wrote: Oh yeah, this isn't persona 4- herple diddly skerple xD Well then yeah like u said its what, half of one real day in. Give them some moar time. ... Yeah. But also, iVLosk not trying to stifle talk, trying to improve talk. Read deus filter anyone? Deus please elaborate, lurking > lying for scummy? Why should town bother with lies? Bad town might bother with lies. Lets say they are about to be lynched, they lie and claim some blue roll to try and save themselves. You are more likely to catch a scum by focusing on lurkers than lie hunting imo, because you probably won't catch a scum lying. Really depends on the context too. For example, Gotard last game, fake copclaim last minute, to try and save himself. However, we were not suspicious of Gotard because we caught him lying, that was just the icing on the cake. We were suspicious of him because of his weird vote against infii and a good degree of lurking/not contributing. | ||
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FoS = ? Is there a list of this shit I can look at? | ||
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On August 16 2013 15:11 LoneMeow wrote: You addressed the content itself, but I was more curious of your thoughts of it as a first post. Did it seem like the way a town player would enter the game? Seems like the way a new player would enter the game | ||
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On August 17 2013 01:30 justanothertownie wrote: Not really. I didn't like some posts from Deus and the first one of Squibbles that much but this won't tell me anything. I'm just not a fan of this rather pointless policy discussions. People can talk alot about these things without adding any useful content. I won't read to much into early contentless posts though. Bad experience last game. Yeah scum could talk policy all day. Lets put all this lying, lurking, and what-have-you talk aside for now. I am going to vote reps or xzavier if they don't start posting. I want to push for a lynch day 1, and as of right now they are the best candidates. If reps/xzavier are tied for first then a close second would be, well.... everyone else. Although, I can't help be suspicious of holy. Last game he was pretty try-hard and this game he seems pretty detached. I won't press it for now though because he said he was busy. Anyway, I think our goal should be pressuring xzavier and reps to get them to participate. Lurkers won't be tolerated! | ||
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On August 17 2013 07:40 Holyflare wrote: Do you not think what I wrote about him has any merit? Specifically the point about telling us not to write crap but then doing it himself? A few posts have happened since your last assumption. I don't think his hypocrisy is a reason to be suspicious. He probably just wanted to come in with flare, hence his aggressive first post (not counting rap). Holy would you rather focus on iV or reps/xzavier? Pressuring xzavier or reps might get them to start talking. | ||
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On August 17 2013 07:51 Holyflare wrote: All his posts are pretty much non contributory. I genuinely think reps is afk if he hasn't posted yet, no idea about xzavier but it frustrates me, if they don't talk at all it's a double modkill and therefore we should focus on the people who are talking. I swear to god if another bs lurker happens like last game with a post a day I'm voting them off straight anyway Sure, I can get on board with that. Yes he hasn't contributed, but do you want to make a case against him because he hasn't contributed or because he is a hypocrite? We all have posts that didn't really contribute, you included + Show Spoiler + On August 16 2013 03:53 Holyflare wrote: Let's get this thing going + Show Spoiler + On August 16 2013 04:42 Holyflare wrote: Definitely lynch all liars, there's only 1 or 2 scenarios where a town would lie so it is not worth it, and yes lynch all lurkers too, unless there are obvious lynches. + Show Spoiler + On August 16 2013 05:13 Holyflare wrote: Stupid obvious shit in response to a question that asks for a stupid obvious response is not lynch worthy Hell, most of that policy talk was pointless. There is no denying that he is one of the worst offenders however. I would still rather pressure xzavier or reps. | ||
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A) Contribute nothing to increase the chances of a no-lynch day 1 B) Contribute nothing to avoid mistakes or posts that could get them unwanted attention. or the less likely C) Play a lurker roll so their scum buddy can bus them. How easy would it be to drop in and say, "oh sorry guys I couldn't post because.... blah.. blah.. blah...". Some of you are already assuming that they are just afk. Why are we tolerating lurkers? | ||
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On August 17 2013 09:19 reps)squishy wrote: This one liner is pretty funny. It's like I am not a Lurker ahhh!!! I as far as who we lynch always the most obvious person day1. If you don't have a super obvious person day 1 go lurker. And as the games go on Liars over Lurkers. Some people have alot of IRL stuff going on but if they don't contribute they need to go. As far as Alakaslams videos and iVLosK!'s rap + Show Spoiler + Holla-Holla-Loo-Yuh I am Mafia's big swinging ding-a-ling, make 'em sing. Holla-Holla-Loo-Yuh I am everything you ever were afraid of. Holla-Holla-Loo-Yuh I am Mafia's big swinging ding-a-ling, make 'em sing. Holla-Holla Loo-Yuh Yeah, you rappers bore me, I wanna kill you Do it for me and I'll holla-holla. I do mind it very much. But when it gets repetitive I will not tolerate it. Reps are you suspicious of iV at all? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 09:09 iVLosK! wrote: "I noticed it" =/= "this is scummy". It's sorta more like what you're doing. Putting together a case on me without actually voting me. Read D1 of my first game on this site. I don't like that shit and happily lynch people who do it. This is a good example. Attacks holy and contributes nothing to town. | ||
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On August 17 2013 09:54 iVLosK! wrote: I've bolded the obvious sarcasm for those unable or unwilling to keep up. Seems more egotistical than sarcastic. | ||
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On August 17 2013 01:16 Squibbles wrote: I can see where the suspicion might lie and the implications of me being a lurker. I run PST and do work so my main times where I will be extremely active will be after 4:30, although I am reading up on all the posts throughout the day. If there are any questions of me feel free to ask, I am rather new so I getting use to all the terminology and what not. So far judging by the posts I am leaning town on deus but I cannot be certain and null for everyone else. It's too early for me to make an educated guess when the majority of people have yet to really reveal intentions. I'm thinking the larger players have been talked about a bit more, meaning they will always be under scrutiny, but that only helps them if they are scum. Only making that of note, not implying anything. I went back and read Squibb's posts and one line stuck out to me. This seems overly defensive. Slam passively called him a lurker but did not pursue it. There was not any real suspicion on Squibbs, yet he felt it necessary to defend himself. Squibb's could you elaborate on why you felt it was necessary to preemptively defend yourself, please. | ||
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I thought I would post my thoughts on day 1 so far. I peg iV for town because he seems aggressive, and antagonistic at times, and to me these are definitely town traits. In addition, I believe Slam is town because he is trying to promote dialog and cut down on spam. For example, + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 08:08 Alakaslam wrote: Ok at the computer is fun Look the thread is only actually a few pages long- the game doesn't actually start until page 10. But here is what I notice, and think: iVLoski may be messing around some- I messed around a lot as town as well, so that's not enough for me but yes, I am aware he could be dangerous scum. I'm Watchin' him and Y'all should too. But I think your suspicion of him has brought out something interesting Holyflare; justanothertownie. look at this K look at this- What are your reads JAT?!? Holyflare has asked you for your reads, this isn't the clearest thing in the world and seems pretty reserved. I mean, I understand, I can be reserved, but make a stand- if you are wrong, or someone points out it doesn't make sense, admit it and move on- But don't sheep! Make a position and defense it. (<3 WhiteRa) Speaking of which, Yes Holyflare- I will work on my read on Deus in a minute. + Show Spoiler + On August 16 2013 14:17 Alakaslam wrote: Oh yeah, this isn't persona 4- herple diddly skerple xD Well then yeah like u said its what, half of one real day in. Give them some moar time. ... Yeah. But also, iVLosk not trying to stifle talk, trying to improve talk. Read deus filter anyone? Deus please elaborate, lurking > lying for scummy? Why should town bother with lies? On August 16 2013 14:17 Alakaslam wrote: Oh yeah, this isn't persona 4- herple diddly skerple xD Well then yeah like u said its what, half of one real day in. Give them some moar time. ... Yeah. But also, iVLosk not trying to stifle talk, trying to improve talk. Read deus filter anyone? Deus please elaborate, lurking > lying for scummy? Why should town bother with lies? And finally, I like Holy for town, only slightly, because he was the first one to get some solid discussion going, other than the policy chat. That leaves 5 other people. Of which my favorite targets for scum and lynching day 1 are xzavier, reps, and squibbs. These lurkers on hindering discussion, they are not putting forth new ideas, and they are not scum hunting. I will continue my firm stance on this, lurking is scummy. Reps why did you poke in today but not really contribute? Xzavier why are you not posting? | ||
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On August 17 2013 14:10 Alakaslam wrote: Well actually I should do as deus is doing. Sleeping? | ||
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##Vote Xzavier | ||
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Sadly it's shit like this that makes me think he is town. Being a dick is probably not want you want to do as scum. | ||
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iV do you think JAT is scum because he wagoned? What are you trying to say? | ||
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On August 18 2013 08:07 Holyflare wrote: I am confused why Xzavier WAS voted off though when the 2 votes were placed after the deadline........ We didn't even have enough votes against him. It wasn't a vote off. He was modkilled. They just said he got lynched in the end of day post. | ||
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On August 18 2013 08:03 Koshi wrote: You will never be 100% sold on somebody being scum. Voting on a 0 poster means that you vote on somebody that is 2/9 going to be scum. (there are 2 scums right?) Obviously. I was trying to make a point. I had a slight town read on iV as I stated in previous posts, and I was neutral on squibbs. Not even remotely confident that either one of them is scum. | ||
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On August 18 2013 08:10 Holyflare wrote: No, it's a plurality lynch system, whoever has the most votes at the end of the day is voted off not majority, I've even stated that before and so did somebody else earlier when you said we needed more people. Oh shit sorry | ||
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Overview: I. Introduction II. Day 1 Voting III. Omni, iV, and Holy IV. Lone/JAT V. Slam V. Final thoughts I. Introduction To prepare for this post I went back and reread the entire game. In addition I studied filters. The reasoning behind this is simple, my early game reads were weak, almost non-existent, and I wanted to start fresh and unbiased. In this post I will go over all my town reads and more importantly my scum reads. I tried to base my reads on a variety of factors. Even if they are not entirely accurate, they are well thought out and will illicit responses. II. Day 1 Voting It is almost comically to see everyone so caught up on day 1 Xzavier voting. Right off the bat I will say that the day 1 voting catastrophe is a perfect opportunity for scum to mislead town. Furthermore, it is irrelevant to scum hunting, therefor any analysis based off of day 1 votes is useless, and possibly scummy. I will explain both of these points. Why is the day 1 voting catastrophe irrelevant to scum hunting? Well, to begin, look at the candidates. We had iV, Squibbles, reps, and Xzavier. Two of these candidates we know to be town, xzavier and reps, and the other two were arguable in that we did not know if they were scum or town. The fact of the matter is, before the day 1 lynch there was no clear scum favorite. Okay, that's the setup. Point 1: It would be a huge misstep for scum to vote xzavier last minute. Why would scum a) put themselves under so much scrutiny by switching votes last minute and b) take their vote off of a controversial lynch target? It would be absolutely horrible play by scum. At the time several people had what I would call a weak scum read on iV. So what do you think, that between slam, holy, and myself one of us was trying to protect a fellow scum? HA! That's ludicrous.The biggest advocates of scum reads based on the Xzavier lynch aren't even convinced iV is scum. Furthermore, if in light of new information we find out that iV is scum, wouldn't that reflect poorly on the people who didn't vote for him? The whole argument that scum voted for xzavier is bs. Of the 4 potential candidates for lynching its likely that three of them are town. It is just as likely that scum voted for Squibbles, or scum voted for iV. So here is thing. My vote on xzavier is because I genuinely thought he was the best candidate. I did not believe iV was scum, and I was neutral on Squibbs. To me, it genuinely seems like slam was in the same boat. I cannot speak for holy. If I have lost you, ill reiterate, simple and sweet: Interpreting a vote on xzavier as scummy is asinine. It is a terrible basis for a scum read. And most importantly the day 1 lynching catastrophe is a perfect opportunity for scum to lead town, by targeting the wrong people, by building cases on the wrong people. And for this, I apologize. I should have know better than to let something like this happen. Quickly, last thing, why the hell are people looking at my meta and saying, "oh he is not as aggressive as last game, that's scummy". We had a discussion on meta during policy chat and came to the conclusion that is not very useful in newb games. Furthermore, how much do you have to fucking compare? 2 games, of course I am not going to play the exact same in my only two games. Which brings me to an interesting point: that is similar to one of the arguments against iV. Might be scummy to make that argument, or bad town. II. Omni, iV, and Holy There is so much that can be said about these individuals. 1 scum, 2 scum, or no scum? Are they connected? Why the attacks on each other? I wanted to talk about them together, to compare mentalities, contributions, etc. Furthermore, I think that it is very likely that 1 is scum, and is attacking/being attacked with scum motives. So let's begin. Omni I had a neutral read on Squibbles so that does not affect my read on Omni. The first thing he does upon entering the game is post some quick, poorly thought out scum and town reads. He makes a really poor case against me initially, more on that later. + Show Spoiler + On August 18 2013 07:39 OmniEulogy wrote: Hahahaha yeah, unfortunately what I'm really going over right now is the massive clusterfuck at the end of D1. I agree with you completely when you say that nobody should vote for a guy with literally 0 posts. Town should NEVER lynch the "easiest" target which it seems like they did... that's complete scum mentality. Town lynch the scummiest players not the easiest ones -.- ... I'm also really upset that three people didn't even vote which makes it even harder to sort it out. so far I think I'm pretty happy with my reads right now though I think Slam really sticks out to me as scummy for jumping around on his votes so much, even to the point of voting for Xzavier on two seperate occasions, however he has been one of the most consistant contributors in the game albeit very spammy. I'm getting a newbie town feeling from him and with the amount he's posting if he is scum it wont take long for him to slip. For that reason I'm ok with him currently. I've never played with Deus but people say he's an aggressive townie. I'm not seeing any of that from this game. He's been asking really bad fluff questions which would be easy for scum to imitate to pretend to be contributing, his vote on Xzavier and his reason behind it were terrible or rather his lack of a reason. Then after the lynch on Xzavier he goes after Holy for something he was fine before and even said he thought Holy was town for. I'd say out of all the players he's my top scum read right now. And then Holy votes for Xzavier as a "place holder" never to take his vote off him. Very scummy behavior considering he goes for the easy lynch, and a way to avoid needing to actually come up with a reason to vote for somebody. As far as town reads go I had a newbie town read on Reps and so in turn I believe Koshi is town. JAT is my strongest town read in the game at the moment slight town read on iVLosK! and the rest are all neutral as I still have to go through the filters again. I'd really like to know why Slam jumped his vote around so much asap and why the hell all three of you (Holy, Deus, Slam) thought it was a good idea to lynch Xzavier. So what does he do? Jumps on the Xzavier vote fuck-up train. In a way, he mimics Koshi, but doesn't really offer anything new to the table. If I was scum I would do exactly what he is doing, use the day 1 lynch opportunity, and come in loud and big to appear active and town. After that he has a couple posts that target holy, ending in a case against holy, then drops holy. + Show Spoiler + On August 18 2013 08:02 OmniEulogy wrote: That's a pretty massive issue.... the objective isn't to find the safest person to vote for and then do it as town..... Your reason of not wanting to get rid of somebody who might contribute doesn't work in this case. Xzavier had literally not made a single post, was very likely to be modkilled and you had stronger feelings against another player but you kept your vote on him because it was safer? Am I reading that right? Safer for what? Town on D1 doesn't need to worry about what the safe vote is. if you wanted to be safe why didn't you just ##Vote:No-Lynch instead of putting it on somebody who wouldn't defend himself. I'm fairly certain I just got that last part wrong, would a mod be kind enough to tell me/us what the correct format is to vote for a no-lynch? Thanks! + Show Spoiler + On August 18 2013 08:05 OmniEulogy wrote: Squibbles said two things, I have the gift of knowing that he was town and therefore I can tell you he was either a very new, or bored townie. His two posts also indicate that and while I was reading the game before being subbed in for him my read on him was town. Why are you deflecting the subject? Squibbles didn't get voted on, if he had this wouldn't be as bad as it is. At least you could argue Squibbles had said he would contribute but never did. + Show Spoiler + On August 19 2013 03:04 OmniEulogy wrote: you are mistaking me asking you questions for me making a case against you. I don't need to start quoting your filter to bring up how weird your vote was and your logic behind it. However the soft town claim bothers me quite a bit especially with how the game has played out so far. Why I think Holy is scummy. + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 03:19 Holyflare wrote: Here's the run down so far, yeh it's early but /care Stuffz going down: + Show Spoiler + On August 16 2013 12:03 Squibbles wrote: Right? Odd. Backtrackin a bit for Policy, even if you wanted to lynch lurkers, liars, and those who post pointless stuff, should there be a level at which the lynch begins. For example yalls version of Lurking could be completely different from each other, where one might thinking lurking is more than 12 hours another might think a day.... We should establish some context, As far as lying, in any sense what if they are lying because they are unsure about you? Wouldnt that make you both the suspects vs just the person that lied, i think depending on the question there should be a level limit there, and those who post pointless stuff, well if you're dodging a question, you're dodging a question, enough said. Here we have squibbles pointing out what I find to be obvious but what many of us failed to say. He didn't need to backtrack but he did because this is an important point, it isn't beating a dead horse and implies that he'd like further discussion if this arises in the future, I like this guy. Also agrees with not posting bs spam. +++++ Would like to hear more when he's back from work. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Deus started a bit wishy washy but I'm assuming he is being more aprehensive over the last game where he started with full on aggression against reps. + Show Spoiler + On August 16 2013 05:14 DeusXmachina wrote: If you have a weak scum read on someone and they lie, well that might be evidence against them. I would try to understand the intentions behind the lie. Not crazy about the lynch liars policy. I don't know how to define lurking, but people who are being useless are equally as bad as lurkers. In fact, in some situations, I think spammers can be more detrimental to town than lurkers. I equate non-contribution to scum. I am glad you brought this up. I was thinking about this a lot in my last game. Well this is a newb game. Hopefully players can read some of the initial policy and learn what not to do. Lynching people who say stupid stuff got me into a lot of shit my last game. That being said, I am all for aggressive play and doing whatever it takes to weed out scum. I'm liking this post, yet, it seems this game he is going all out aggressive on lurkers. Lurkers annoy me yes but he hasn't really added anything yet in terms of proper content other than elaborating his policy when asked which increases my suspicions of people that are rating him as a town player for now ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Not sure about this lonemeow guy, he has the town mentality sure with stuff like this: + Show Spoiler + On August 16 2013 15:26 LoneMeow wrote: Okay, I see your track record on figuring out first posts isn't exactly stellar :D I want to see people talk about each other, because that makes the game much easier to figure out. I consider his first post pretty much null from a completely new player. On that matter, my reads so far: slightly town on DeusXmachina and Alakaslam, null on the rest. however he hasn't had to talk about other people so I cannot give a good read on him whatsoever yet. If you read this lonemeow I want your full impressions on iVLosK! and Slam. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ What I am REALLY quizzical about are why people are riding iVLosK!'s dick so fucking hard, he implies he hate's wishy washy bull shit but has provided absolutely 0 content in his posts so far: + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 01:20 iVLosK! wrote: No, past iVlosK!. Not yet. But soon... very soon. This is Squibbles only game post but I like the content on multiple points. I spare thee, and await further posts. This is his only thing that has any merit and it's a line about him agreeing with a post.... like seriously I question the people that lean town on this guy... Stupid obvious shit 1: + Show Spoiler + On August 16 2013 07:41 iVLosK! wrote: I would argue that the rap was very aggressive. Krizz Kaliko does not fuck around. Stupid obvious shit 2: + Show Spoiler + Stupid obvious shit 3: + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 01:27 iVLosK! wrote: Anyway, if Xzavier and reps haven't done anything meaningful by the time the Chiefs game ends tonight, I will lower the boom on whichever I deem most worthy. For a guy that states he hates people that talk about "stupid obvious shit" he sure is hypocritical. He's also just devolved into talking about lynching lurkers in his last post, again, no content. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Slam... is slam, but this game he's seemed to get his shit somewhat together: + Show Spoiler + On August 16 2013 12:56 Alakaslam wrote: Actually it was lynching the spammer- many of the things I said were trying to express my opinions, spamming was me trying to dick around. I promise not to do that anymore except maybe in spoilers if I can't help it. Therefore I am really glad you laid this out. There may be people like me who just get the juices flowing and go nuts, they will disregard you until they are the scummy one tunneling the wrong guy at Lylo- then they will have to fight not to become stimaddict 2.0, (sorry bout that but u know its true ing one) so like I say- rock and a hard place with "don't spam don't lurk" for me- so gimme a little grace and I will try to help out. For now, I have this: Ivlosk! - town, he is bamcis for lookin so, especially so early, therefore keep an eye out for even more badass scum play later if I am wrong (and I am wrong often...) HolyFlare- kinda early. I'm null, in fact, I'm null on everyone but ivlosk! and myself. It's pretty early guys. "Speak up!" -Seige Tank Driver (selected, Starcraft 2) Fellows, pleeeze!! Confused about his town read on iVLosK obviously and mentioning me over everyone else seems a bit quizzical too as I didn't post much. + Show Spoiler + On August 16 2013 14:02 Alakaslam wrote: Careful of posting pseudo lurker lists... Look. That is the easies thing for scum to do to try and look town, 1, and 2, if we have vigs, they can shoot into lurkers and we lynch other lurkers till there are none. So it is established that you can't lurk and get by this game. Stating their scumminess other than to explain a vote on them is now irrelevant, lets stick to discussion about actives. Then, before the deadline (close as you can get) vote for a lurker or someone you find scummy- who may have more of a chance turning out to be scum than someone who wanted blue or irl'ed or whatever causes people to do this stuff. I like this post but by this nature he should also assume that ivlosk is now scummy (after reading my post/his filter), he has a habit of being swayed easily by people who are expressing pro town interests which you all need to watch out for too. Obviously the game is early and you can't read too much into what he is saying so press him lots <3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ JAT hasn't really added anything other than his dislike of fakeclaims, can't read into him at all so would like to hear more from him too, will push him on people when he is around. + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 01:30 justanothertownie wrote: Not really. I didn't like some posts from Deus and the first one of Squibbles that much but this won't tell me anything. I'm just not a fan of this rather pointless policy discussions. People can talk alot about these things without adding any useful content. I won't read to much into early contentless posts though. Bad experience last game. /spoiler] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I will push people for reads and things if they are around when I post this First off we have this large post which looks impressive at first, then after reading it you realize it doesn't say a whole lot other than the first few posts of nearly everybody gives him a town vibe. This is behavior of somebody who wants to look like they are contributing without actually putting anything of worth into a very large post very early into the game when there isn't really much information to go on. Tries to get on the good side of multiple people and not disturb things too much. + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 07:02 Holyflare wrote: JAT what is your opinion so far on ivlosk and also I'd like to hear your thoughts on lonemeow + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 07:29 Holyflare wrote: So you liked his rap and pointless posts about being a zergling? Ok sounds reasonable....... Oh wait not really, i want you to filter dive like i have done and specifically point out what it is you like and why It is irrelevant for now why i picked these 2 people Slam if you are still here what are your thoughts on deus and JAT? Another scummy move is to constantly keep asking people what they think about the others and not answering or very briefly answering questions directed at yourself. This way again it looks like you are contributing when in reality it is the others doing most of the talking. Also I happen to like LosK's pointless talk as it is part of the reason I have a slight town read on him. He seems very comfortable to talk about nothing in particular which sets most scum on edge and can sometimes make him a target for others to try and attack because of it. Which you later do. + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 08:42 Holyflare wrote: I like you drawing attention to this, oh it's scummy to avoid lurkers but then say you want to do the anti lurker thing, seriously? I mean what the hell i don't know if you two are trying to set me up but until the lurkers actually do something talking about them is 100% anti town by way of wasting time. Of course we will lynch lurkers if nobody is under any real suspicion do not be stupid. + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 21:26 Holyflare wrote: ##Vote xzavier for now as a placeholder until something more obvious comes forward Not a townie vote or mindset to have. As mentioned before No-Lynch is always an option. Town does not look for the "safe" or "easy" votes. + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 23:48 Holyflare wrote: If he posts at 6.59 he will not be modkilled, hence the placeholder vote, it can be moved anytime I feel like it onto someone more suspicious. It is also madatory to vote for someone otherwise you will also probably be warned/modkilled, if I was to suddenly become inundated with things to do later at least my vote would be on a worthy person. It is more suspicious that people have not voted at all with only 3 hours left to go. This is also a plurality lynch meaning that the person with the most votes, not majority will be voted off. Do you really want to vote off the guy that has at least said something rather than the person that has said nothing? + Show Spoiler + On August 18 2013 00:17 Holyflare wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 08:04 iVLosK! wrote: D' Oh. I think this is the post JAT is referencing above. I noticed it too. Wasn't this the post where you said you were using it to build a 'case'? You agreed with JAT that relying on modkills would be bad so why have you gone 180 on squibbles when you originally liked his first post? (here: + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 01:20 iVLosK! wrote: No, past iVlosK!. Not yet. But soon... very soon. This is Squibbles only game post but I like the content on multiple points. I spare thee, and await further posts. + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 23:55 iVLosK! wrote: A last second vote from Xzavier would be tantamount to admitting he is scum. If he does, we just lynch him D2. I would much prefer to allow him to be modkilled and we can see what his replacement has to say. I much prefer reps or sqibbles for the lynch and will vote squibbles because multiple players have stated that reps is always like this. ##Vote: Squibbles You do NOT want to accidently vote off a town member if they have contributed, even 1 or 2 posts, compared to somebody who has done none for now. --------------------------------------------------------------------- I honestly do not understand how people can think you are acting town when you flip flop all over the place on almost every post you make: + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 01:27 iVLosK! wrote: Anyway, if Xzavier and reps haven't done anything meaningful by the time the Chiefs game ends tonight, I will lower the boom on whichever I deem most worthy. Nothing has been noted in your posts since then that implies you'd even think about modkills or squibbles voting, you just seem to be bandwagoning with no valid reason for the easy lynch. Clearly you've had a problem with LosK all game, yet you continue to keep your vote on Xzavier, I can only assume it is to be "safe". Lastly please don't soft claim town with a "I'm not going to post my thoughts at night, cause I might get NK'd!" after playing like shit and tunneling LosK for most of the day for play that I and a few others consider to be town aligned. It's bullshit. My town reads are still JAT and LosK, I think if Koshi continues to play exactly as he has been I feel pretty comfortable calling him town as well. I think he's right with saying scum was on the Xzavier lynch. I'm also leaning towards town on Lonemeow as I've really liked some of his posts, in particular these: + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 17:53 LoneMeow wrote: So do you think he's scum? Why so non-committal? Your filter is worrying, low activity and I get a feel that you're just trying to find a target to latch on rather than trying to find scum. + Show Spoiler + On August 18 2013 01:29 LoneMeow wrote: When I dropped my vote on Squibbles I was fully expecting him to speak up before the deadline as he had said he's reading the thread during EU daytime. Now that it looks like he might be modkilled/replaced just like Xzavier I'm fully prepared to switch. I'm fully prepared to switch to iVLosK! - as I've stated he seems to be suspiciously timid compared to his style in XLII and the point about not bringing much content that Holyflare brings up has merit. Also, now that you're here, can I have a few reads from you? To me this looks like a town motivated mind set. He's actively watching what people are doing and how they are reacting to things and trying to see the town/scum reasoning behind each action. Actually by quoting these I realize Slam also voted on Xzavier as a place holder at first. wtf. Sheep placeholder at that, scummy as hell. Add that to how much his vote jumped around and he makes me pretty nervous I think Deus looks pretty scummy as well and also mentioned he wanted a "safe" place to put his vote. After looking through his filter carefully though I no longer think he's the scummiest out of all three. It's possible that Omni begins pushing a lynch on Holy, using the voting catastrophe, and drops it when it doesn't seem to be working. There is a little tiff between these two. So i ask myself, would scum bus each other in this way? Unlikely. So it's safe to say both are not scum. So from here I tried to look at who is pushing a case for the wrong reasons? Is holy even pushing a case? Is Omni being genuine? Ill answer these questions. Holy Here is Holy's side of the argument: + Show Spoiler + On August 18 2013 07:49 Holyflare wrote: I like how you ignore everything I've said the entirety of the game just to focus on the person I put my vote on. It was my girlfriends birthday today (went out yesterday for it/party today) so I left my vote on the safest person so far. If he posted once and voted he'd be still in the game and I would NOT be alright with that, I would 100% not be alright with wasting 2 days just so we could fucking waste another day talking about him and wasting the day on him. + Show Spoiler + On August 18 2013 08:31 Holyflare wrote: I also thought he was town from what he has posted (if you actually read anything I posted, it seems you haven't). I am also not deflecting, the point you raised was that you shouldn't vote for a 0 poster, squibbles was a 2 poster with a no vote that also got modkilled, the REST of the town was on him right until the final minutes where they bandwagoned iVLosK! and then subsequently Xzavier. There was some suspicious shit there though and I'll leave it till the day before I discuss it. Not making the same mistake as my last game. + Show Spoiler + On August 19 2013 03:50 Holyflare wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 19 2013 03:04 OmniEulogy wrote: you are mistaking me asking you questions for me making a case against you. I don't need to start quoting your filter to bring up how weird your vote was and your logic behind it. However the soft town claim bothers me quite a bit especially with how the game has played out so far. Why I think Holy is scummy. + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 03:19 Holyflare wrote: Here's the run down so far, yeh it's early but /care Stuffz going down: + Show Spoiler + On August 16 2013 12:03 Squibbles wrote: Right? Odd. Backtrackin a bit for Policy, even if you wanted to lynch lurkers, liars, and those who post pointless stuff, should there be a level at which the lynch begins. For example yalls version of Lurking could be completely different from each other, where one might thinking lurking is more than 12 hours another might think a day.... We should establish some context, As far as lying, in any sense what if they are lying because they are unsure about you? Wouldnt that make you both the suspects vs just the person that lied, i think depending on the question there should be a level limit there, and those who post pointless stuff, well if you're dodging a question, you're dodging a question, enough said. Here we have squibbles pointing out what I find to be obvious but what many of us failed to say. He didn't need to backtrack but he did because this is an important point, it isn't beating a dead horse and implies that he'd like further discussion if this arises in the future, I like this guy. Also agrees with not posting bs spam. +++++ Would like to hear more when he's back from work. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Deus started a bit wishy washy but I'm assuming he is being more aprehensive over the last game where he started with full on aggression against reps. + Show Spoiler + On August 16 2013 05:14 DeusXmachina wrote: If you have a weak scum read on someone and they lie, well that might be evidence against them. I would try to understand the intentions behind the lie. Not crazy about the lynch liars policy. I don't know how to define lurking, but people who are being useless are equally as bad as lurkers. In fact, in some situations, I think spammers can be more detrimental to town than lurkers. I equate non-contribution to scum. I am glad you brought this up. I was thinking about this a lot in my last game. Well this is a newb game. Hopefully players can read some of the initial policy and learn what not to do. Lynching people who say stupid stuff got me into a lot of shit my last game. That being said, I am all for aggressive play and doing whatever it takes to weed out scum. I'm liking this post, yet, it seems this game he is going all out aggressive on lurkers. Lurkers annoy me yes but he hasn't really added anything yet in terms of proper content other than elaborating his policy when asked which increases my suspicions of people that are rating him as a town player for now ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Not sure about this lonemeow guy, he has the town mentality sure with stuff like this: + Show Spoiler + On August 16 2013 15:26 LoneMeow wrote: Okay, I see your track record on figuring out first posts isn't exactly stellar :D I want to see people talk about each other, because that makes the game much easier to figure out. I consider his first post pretty much null from a completely new player. On that matter, my reads so far: slightly town on DeusXmachina and Alakaslam, null on the rest. however he hasn't had to talk about other people so I cannot give a good read on him whatsoever yet. If you read this lonemeow I want your full impressions on iVLosK! and Slam. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ What I am REALLY quizzical about are why people are riding iVLosK!'s dick so fucking hard, he implies he hate's wishy washy bull shit but has provided absolutely 0 content in his posts so far: + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 01:20 iVLosK! wrote: No, past iVlosK!. Not yet. But soon... very soon. This is Squibbles only game post but I like the content on multiple points. I spare thee, and await further posts. This is his only thing that has any merit and it's a line about him agreeing with a post.... like seriously I question the people that lean town on this guy... Stupid obvious shit 1: + Show Spoiler + On August 16 2013 07:41 iVLosK! wrote: I would argue that the rap was very aggressive. Krizz Kaliko does not fuck around. Stupid obvious shit 2: + Show Spoiler + Stupid obvious shit 3: + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 01:27 iVLosK! wrote: Anyway, if Xzavier and reps haven't done anything meaningful by the time the Chiefs game ends tonight, I will lower the boom on whichever I deem most worthy. For a guy that states he hates people that talk about "stupid obvious shit" he sure is hypocritical. He's also just devolved into talking about lynching lurkers in his last post, again, no content. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Slam... is slam, but this game he's seemed to get his shit somewhat together: + Show Spoiler + On August 16 2013 12:56 Alakaslam wrote: Actually it was lynching the spammer- many of the things I said were trying to express my opinions, spamming was me trying to dick around. I promise not to do that anymore except maybe in spoilers if I can't help it. Therefore I am really glad you laid this out. There may be people like me who just get the juices flowing and go nuts, they will disregard you until they are the scummy one tunneling the wrong guy at Lylo- then they will have to fight not to become stimaddict 2.0, (sorry bout that but u know its true ing one) so like I say- rock and a hard place with "don't spam don't lurk" for me- so gimme a little grace and I will try to help out. For now, I have this: Ivlosk! - town, he is bamcis for lookin so, especially so early, therefore keep an eye out for even more badass scum play later if I am wrong (and I am wrong often...) HolyFlare- kinda early. I'm null, in fact, I'm null on everyone but ivlosk! and myself. It's pretty early guys. "Speak up!" -Seige Tank Driver (selected, Starcraft 2) Fellows, pleeeze!! Confused about his town read on iVLosK obviously and mentioning me over everyone else seems a bit quizzical too as I didn't post much. + Show Spoiler + On August 16 2013 14:02 Alakaslam wrote: Careful of posting pseudo lurker lists... Look. That is the easies thing for scum to do to try and look town, 1, and 2, if we have vigs, they can shoot into lurkers and we lynch other lurkers till there are none. So it is established that you can't lurk and get by this game. Stating their scumminess other than to explain a vote on them is now irrelevant, lets stick to discussion about actives. Then, before the deadline (close as you can get) vote for a lurker or someone you find scummy- who may have more of a chance turning out to be scum than someone who wanted blue or irl'ed or whatever causes people to do this stuff. I like this post but by this nature he should also assume that ivlosk is now scummy (after reading my post/his filter), he has a habit of being swayed easily by people who are expressing pro town interests which you all need to watch out for too. Obviously the game is early and you can't read too much into what he is saying so press him lots <3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ JAT hasn't really added anything other than his dislike of fakeclaims, can't read into him at all so would like to hear more from him too, will push him on people when he is around. + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 01:30 justanothertownie wrote: Not really. I didn't like some posts from Deus and the first one of Squibbles that much but this won't tell me anything. I'm just not a fan of this rather pointless policy discussions. People can talk alot about these things without adding any useful content. I won't read to much into early contentless posts though. Bad experience last game. /spoiler] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I will push people for reads and things if they are around when I post this First off we have this large post which looks impressive at first, then after reading it you realize it doesn't say a whole lot other than the first few posts of nearly everybody gives him a town vibe. This is behavior of somebody who wants to look like they are contributing without actually putting anything of worth into a very large post very early into the game when there isn't really much information to go on. Tries to get on the good side of multiple people and not disturb things too much. + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 07:02 Holyflare wrote: JAT what is your opinion so far on ivlosk and also I'd like to hear your thoughts on lonemeow + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 07:29 Holyflare wrote: So you liked his rap and pointless posts about being a zergling? Ok sounds reasonable....... Oh wait not really, i want you to filter dive like i have done and specifically point out what it is you like and why It is irrelevant for now why i picked these 2 people Slam if you are still here what are your thoughts on deus and JAT? Another scummy move is to constantly keep asking people what they think about the others and not answering or very briefly answering questions directed at yourself. This way again it looks like you are contributing when in reality it is the others doing most of the talking. Also I happen to like LosK's pointless talk as it is part of the reason I have a slight town read on him. He seems very comfortable to talk about nothing in particular which sets most scum on edge and can sometimes make him a target for others to try and attack because of it. Which you later do. + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 08:42 Holyflare wrote: I like you drawing attention to this, oh it's scummy to avoid lurkers but then say you want to do the anti lurker thing, seriously? I mean what the hell i don't know if you two are trying to set me up but until the lurkers actually do something talking about them is 100% anti town by way of wasting time. Of course we will lynch lurkers if nobody is under any real suspicion do not be stupid. + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 21:26 Holyflare wrote: ##Vote xzavier for now as a placeholder until something more obvious comes forward Not a townie vote or mindset to have. As mentioned before No-Lynch is always an option. Town does not look for the "safe" or "easy" votes. + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 23:48 Holyflare wrote: If he posts at 6.59 he will not be modkilled, hence the placeholder vote, it can be moved anytime I feel like it onto someone more suspicious. It is also madatory to vote for someone otherwise you will also probably be warned/modkilled, if I was to suddenly become inundated with things to do later at least my vote would be on a worthy person. It is more suspicious that people have not voted at all with only 3 hours left to go. This is also a plurality lynch meaning that the person with the most votes, not majority will be voted off. Do you really want to vote off the guy that has at least said something rather than the person that has said nothing? + Show Spoiler + On August 18 2013 00:17 Holyflare wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 08:04 iVLosK! wrote: D' Oh. I think this is the post JAT is referencing above. I noticed it too. Wasn't this the post where you said you were using it to build a 'case'? You agreed with JAT that relying on modkills would be bad so why have you gone 180 on squibbles when you originally liked his first post? (here: + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 01:20 iVLosK! wrote: No, past iVlosK!. Not yet. But soon... very soon. This is Squibbles only game post but I like the content on multiple points. I spare thee, and await further posts. + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 23:55 iVLosK! wrote: A last second vote from Xzavier would be tantamount to admitting he is scum. If he does, we just lynch him D2. I would much prefer to allow him to be modkilled and we can see what his replacement has to say. I much prefer reps or sqibbles for the lynch and will vote squibbles because multiple players have stated that reps is always like this. ##Vote: Squibbles You do NOT want to accidently vote off a town member if they have contributed, even 1 or 2 posts, compared to somebody who has done none for now. --------------------------------------------------------------------- I honestly do not understand how people can think you are acting town when you flip flop all over the place on almost every post you make: + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 01:27 iVLosK! wrote: Anyway, if Xzavier and reps haven't done anything meaningful by the time the Chiefs game ends tonight, I will lower the boom on whichever I deem most worthy. Nothing has been noted in your posts since then that implies you'd even think about modkills or squibbles voting, you just seem to be bandwagoning with no valid reason for the easy lynch. Clearly you've had a problem with LosK all game, yet you continue to keep your vote on Xzavier, I can only assume it is to be "safe". Lastly please don't soft claim town with a "I'm not going to post my thoughts at night, cause I might get NK'd!" after playing like shit and tunneling LosK for most of the day for play that I and a few others consider to be town aligned. It's bullshit. My town reads are still JAT and LosK, I think if Koshi continues to play exactly as he has been I feel pretty comfortable calling him town as well. I think he's right with saying scum was on the Xzavier lynch. I'm also leaning towards town on Lonemeow as I've really liked some of his posts, in particular these: + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 17:53 LoneMeow wrote: So do you think he's scum? Why so non-committal? Your filter is worrying, low activity and I get a feel that you're just trying to find a target to latch on rather than trying to find scum. + Show Spoiler + On August 18 2013 01:29 LoneMeow wrote: When I dropped my vote on Squibbles I was fully expecting him to speak up before the deadline as he had said he's reading the thread during EU daytime. Now that it looks like he might be modkilled/replaced just like Xzavier I'm fully prepared to switch. I'm fully prepared to switch to iVLosK! - as I've stated he seems to be suspiciously timid compared to his style in XLII and the point about not bringing much content that Holyflare brings up has merit. Also, now that you're here, can I have a few reads from you? To me this looks like a town motivated mind set. He's actively watching what people are doing and how they are reacting to things and trying to see the town/scum reasoning behind each action. Actually by quoting these I realize Slam also voted on Xzavier as a place holder at first. wtf. Sheep placeholder at that, scummy as hell. Add that to how much his vote jumped around and he makes me pretty nervous I think Deus looks pretty scummy as well and also mentioned he wanted a "safe" place to put his vote. After looking through his filter carefully though I no longer think he's the scummiest out of all three. Not really sure where to begin with this, but here we go. Firstly, this was right at the start of the day, not much information to go off but I wasn't around before and it is a hell of a lot more contribution than people had been doing previously, I was pointing out what people were doing differently from last game, what I liked so far and what the fuck people were thinking about iVLosK! with so much bs floating around. The top that was being talked about was peoples views on lynching lurkers and it got us nowhere, this actually got us off that stale topic and got people talking, more than anyone had done so far. You are taking all of my posts out of context, I would have asked these questions within my bigger post and then it would have seemed more reasonable, possibly to you, but maybe those people would ignore it. I wanted to see who was around before I asked the questions in the first place. I asked for 2 different people to give me their reads because I had a plan set around it to retrieve more information, so I asked people to give me reads on a person I thought was scum and a person I thought was town to see their responses. As for IVLosK I cannot comprehend what gives you a town read on actions like that. He contributes nothing, when pressured adds nothing in his defence and was going to be lynched off with nothing valuable to save his life. What speaks town for you there? A townie should want to do everything he can to stay alive but no, nothing like that happened. As far as the Xzavier vote goes, it is NEVER a good idea to no-lynch on the first day. EVER. Like how does that even make sense for you to say? It's practically a free night for scum to do what they want, at least with A lynch we have a 2/9 chance to hit a scum, especially with a no poster who may vote last second. I would have switched my vote to iVLosK quite happily if I was around at the time, but read into it what you will I'd rather celebrate my girlfriends birthday than tell her I have to pop out to switch my vote on mafia. As far as my reads go, I have a lot of information from the last day that will be helpful. I will post these in a bit after I've had some time to relax. and a few others. Here is the thing. Holy's defense is strong, and it seems like a town defense. He did bring up good points. Holy was the one to get real discussion going day 1. Holy was the first one to show real aggression. Holy built a decent case against iV based othe information he had. But is that proof? I wouldn't say so. Holy didn't vote iV despite attacking him. Holy went to great lenths to defend himself, and Holy has not really contributed that much post day 1. As you can see there is 2 sides to the coin. Back to Omni. What upsets me about Omni is he does have some good points. Furthermore, he has been one of the most active members considering he only joined us a short while ago. But a feel like like he is building cases for all the wrong reasons, and I can't shake a scum vibe from him, but he seems genuine. All things considered, It is possible that both are town, and simply misguided in their efforts. iV So what about iV? Well iV is someone who I will watch closely. I keep going back to his antagonistic behavior. That and he doesnt seem to give a shit what is said about him. I admit that is a weak reason to call him town, but it's something to go on. It could be a damn good poker face, so with that in mind I will keep my eye on him. | ||
DeusXmachina
United States333 Posts
Holy: 1. What are your reads, and why have you not been contribution to the town after day 1? 2. Why did you spend so much effort defending yourself? 3. Do you think Omni is scummy? 4. Are you dropping the case against iV? If so why? Omni 1. Why can you not come up with better reasons to suspect someone? 2. Why push hard against Holy and drop him? 3. How are you still hung up on the Xzavier vote being a reason to suspect someone? In conclusion: Holy: Slightly Town. Because of his initial aggression and contribution to town. Because if he is pushing an agenda he is doing a terrible job, by not contributing post day 1 lynch. Still wary of his actions. Omni: Scum. Seems to plausibly be pushing an agenda. Weak reads. Wary of his seemingly genuine contributions. iV: Neutral. Antagonistic grump who seems to be doing his own thing. IV. Lone and JAT JAT Why the hell do people have a town read on JAT? Lets look at what he has done so far. Where are his noticeable contributions? How can anyone be convinced that asking questions/giving advice is strong town. I think that reflects very poorly on Omni. Omni claims his strongest town read is JAT. W T F. Go filter dive this guy and look how many times he says, "I agree with that" or "I can't disagree there". It's silly. Here is his first big post, and first case against someone: + Show Spoiler + On August 19 2013 07:35 justanothertownie wrote: Ok, I read Deus filter again and I really don't like it. He looked very motivated pre game and you describe him as an agressive, active townie in the last newbie game. I don't see that at all in this game. He started with some policy posts without saying anything. That's ok in itself but after that his activity really dropped down. He wasn't agressive instead he asked generic questions like this: After I mentioned that policy talk doesn't add that much he quickly backed off. Feels really defensive (although this post isn't that bad apart from that). His scumhunting pretty much only revolved around lynching lurkers. Easy thing to do as scum. What seems weird to me is his stance on iVLosk. First he defends him. Then he is suspicious of him: Shortly after that Losk is town suddenly: But why don't vote for our townread, right? Then there is this: Followed by: Finally he claims not to have known this is plurality lynch which has been stated several times in the thread. He either doesn't read the thread or this is a bad excuse for his weird voting. I really would like to hear his reasoning for all of this. Also he should be way more active Day2 if he is town because right now I am really worried about him. First thing of note: He quotes a shit ton but doesnt give that much explanation. Weak case. Second thing of note: He argues that I am scummy because of my inconsistency. Let me just make something clear. Why is that scummy? Shouldn't town BE inconsistent. Reads are constantly changing, new information constantly surfacing, the game is fucking changing. Hell yes I am going to be inconsistent at time, especially at the beginning of the game. Weak weak weak argument. Remeber when I said scum will use the xzavier lynch as an opportunity to push and agenda? Well this is it folks. Targets me because I have come under recent suspicions, and makes a really shitty argument. His first real stance comes after the xzavier lynch on an easy target. JAT mimics other people. He bandwagons. This kid is scum. I can feel it. Main target for pressure these day 2. Lone Although I cannot say this with complete confidence, I believe Lone to be town. He asked some good questions, and seems genuinely invested in promoting discussion. Furthermore, he is playing moderately aggressive, is pointing fingers (like his case against JAT), and he is bold in his votes. I would like to hear in-depth analysis from Lone. I would like to see real town effort. Conclusion: JAT: Scum. This guys filter is BS. Not contributing. Weak stance. Bandwagon. Using Xzavier lynch to push agenda. Low key. Lone: Slightly town because of noticeable contributions and efforts to further discussion. V. Slam Slam is a weird one. He is goofy and hard to follow. I have a very tough time reading him. I don't think slam is scum but I will look into him in the days to come. He seems to be trying to improve his play, as Holy mentioned, and I think that is pro town. He is asking good questions, has actually taken stronger stances this game than I have seen in the past, and seemed genuinely confused about the iV situation. VI. Final thoughts I could see a possible scum team being JAT Omni. I plan on looking into Omni more in the days to come. I would like him to answer my questions. Because I am much more confident in JAT being scum I will vote him instead of Omni for now. We will see how things play out. -Sincerly A devoted townie you loons! ##Vote Justanothertownie | ||
DeusXmachina
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On August 19 2013 08:02 OmniEulogy wrote: in fact... [bold]##Vote: DeusXmachina[/bold] His filter is worse than Slam's, He made the same terrible vote, and he's not playing like his standard town play as said by other people. Unless anything massive happens in the next 48 hours the only other person I'd consider voting for right now would be Slam. I'll be going through his filter and trying to make a case on him as well but the case made by JAT is very compelling. Sorry to overload you guys but I wanted to bring this up. JAT's case is not compelling at all. He cherry picks small mistakes that I have made and inconsistencies. So that being said, this quote by Omni is another weak reason for voting me. Furthermore he is focusing on slam because of the Xzavier lynch. I don't want to sound redundant but scum could easily use the Xzavier lynch as a way to target and mislynch a townie. | ||
DeusXmachina
United States333 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On August 19 2013 19:46 justanothertownie wrote: So Deus, you don't like it if I quote you - ok. I don't like to quote such an enormous post anyways. So here is my answer to you but first: I thought about the whole thing since yesterday and I will admit that the lynch conclusions alone are not enough to forge a solid read on someone. I got caught up in this because your voting was really stupid even if it wasn't scum motivated. If you read what I said you know that I already mentioned it doesn't make so much sense for scum to voteswitch like that if iVLosk is town. And iVlosk is right that this is kind of an association case and that they are bad. Still I don't really like how you responded to my case on you and I will tell you why. Yeah, I quoted a shitton if you want so say it like that but I always explained what's scummy about it if it doesn't speak for itself like your voting pattern. You don't even adress one point of my case directly instead you are saying I am scum for pushing you? Wow, now I am impressed. Thats's the scummy way to "defend" against a case. You are absolutely right - a townie should change his reads if there is new information but did you really do that? What happened between your vote on iVlosk and your vote on Xzavier that changed your mind and if there is nothing why did you vote for iVLosk in the first place? If you can explain your thought process through yesterday to me instead of just claiming there is no way scum would do that I would consider changing my read on you. Also please explain to me why you didn't know it was plurality lynch when it was mentioned several times before the lynch (did you read the thread at all?). So far I see your case on me is that I am agreeing with people on things + OMGUS. Yeah, great case. Other than that: I am suspicious of Omni myself. He is obviously right about me but if I understand him correctly he obsed before he replaced so it is easy to know who looks townie to people and who doesn't and scum likes to give townreads. It is easy for them to give strong reads because they know who is town and who isn't. But what really gets me thinking about him is his reasoning. He doesn't even really consider iVLosk to be scum and still insists on you or slam being scum and I don't follow that. There still is only one alive player who I really have a considerable townread on and it's not him. I would really like you to keep being active Day2 and to keep posting reads. If this means you have to push me - do it. The same goes for iVLosk who didn't contribute anything for a long time now. I don't want to call him scum for not defending himself before the lynch anymore because it was very shortly before the deadline that he got voted but still several people were suspicious of him and there was always the possibility of him getting lynched earlier. I don't know what to think of him. It really sucks that slam is afk for half of the dayphase btw. + Show Spoiler + On August 19 2013 07:35 justanothertownie wrote: Ok, I read Deus filter again and I really don't like it. He looked very motivated pre game and you describe him as an agressive, active townie in the last newbie game. I don't see that at all in this game. He started with some policy posts without saying anything. That's ok in itself but after that his activity really dropped down. He wasn't agressive instead he asked generic questions like this: After I mentioned that policy talk doesn't add that much he quickly backed off. Feels really defensive (although this post isn't that bad apart from that). His scumhunting pretty much only revolved around lynching lurkers. Easy thing to do as scum. What seems weird to me is his stance on iVLosk. First he defends him. Then he is suspicious of him: Shortly after that Losk is town suddenly: But why don't vote for our townread, right? Then there is this: Followed by: Finally he claims not to have known this is plurality lynch which has been stated several times in the thread. He either doesn't read the thread or this is a bad excuse for his weird voting. I really would like to hear his reasoning for all of this. Also he should be way more active Day2 if he is town because right now I am really worried about him. For starters, scum reads based on the xzavier lynch are extremelly unreliable, and I will try to explain that by detailing my thought process. Ill say this again, the xzavier lynch is a MASSIVE opportunity for scum to capitalize on. It's a gateway to mislynching a townie. There was some talk about my inconsistency. I wouldn't call the moments before the Xzavier lynch inconsistent. At least in my case, the better word is impulsive. So my thought process: The most impulsive thing I did that day was vote iV. Shortly after, I posted what I was thinking. + Show Spoiler + On August 18 2013 02:56 DeusXmachina wrote: Sorry guys. I couldn't be around this morning. Read the thread. Although I don't completely agree with Holy stance against iV, everyone else seems convinced. Not sold on squibbs. I would rather vote Xzavier but that is clearly not going to happen. Fuck I might change my vote. iV seems to aggressive/antagonistic to be scum. I got in right before the lynch. I pan through the posts. Wow people seemed convinced iV is the best lynch candidate. Vote iV. Wait a second, I don't really agree with that. He is way to antagonistic, and aggressive to be scum. I don't think this is right. Well how many votes against him, we need 5 right? (Yes I genuinly thought it was a majority lynch. No I didn't catch where it said plurality. Yes when slam responded right after saying plurality I discarded it because I thought wtf does that mean). Nope this isn't right he is not scum. Unvote, vote Xzavier. Why vote Xzavier? Yes I actually thought it was a majority (Guys do you really think scum would say something so stupid?). I thought, you know what, I am sticking to my guns this game. I don't want to tolerate lurking. Why such a strong stance against lurking? Well I had a major lurker in my last game who turned out to be scum. Another lurker, although not as bad, who turned out to be scum. Okay, so in retrospect Xzavier was beyond a lurker. He was a no poster. But I thought to myself, I don't think Squibbs is scum just yet, I don't think reps is scum just yet. So he is the only one I can vote for. I kick myself for not voting no-lynch. But don't you see! That inconsistency, that impulsiveness is not scummy. Who is more likely to be impulsive? A scum who is constantly thinking about the ramifications of his actions, or a townie who is interested in scum hunting, not constantly making sure he does not look suspicious. Look how much shit that Xzavier lynch got slam and I? That would be, like I said earlier, a massive misstep by scum. That's why talk of scum reads based on the Xzavier lynch are so silly. That's why I think Omni is trying to capitalize on the lynch. Ill respond to JAT's case point by point. The first little bit is based on my meta. I think that is a weak argument. He is talking about how I am not being as aggressive. Well different game different situation. Second point. Back off the policy talk was not defensive at all. I was heading your advice/agreeing with you. My scum hunting was based off of only lurkers? I didn't have anything else to scum hunt at the time. I didn't want to talk about inconsistencies in IV's play and over-analyze his first post, so I didn't chime in with Holy. After that is the best example of my inconsistency. My read on iV was changing, that's all that needs to be said. The rest I explained above. Overall it's still a weak case. My case on you was not just based on you agreeing with things. | ||
DeusXmachina
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On August 20 2013 00:24 OmniEulogy wrote: just got on the computer, read through things quickly and I'll give a more detailed answer to everything in a little bit but I've played with a lot of people who play like LosK has been doing, all of them have been town. Most of what he's said and done has largely just messed with town, and although he is my weakest town read he is still town imo. All of the association cases against him are useless till we know Slam/Deus's alignment. Also from what I quickly read it looks like Deus didn't actually address anything in JAT's case and tried to brush it off and then redirect suspicion at others. I'd be fine with him trying to give his scum reads if he actually tried to clear up his mess and explain his own posts. Also Deus from how I read it, the inconsistency isn't the constantly changing reads town has, the inconsistency is you saying one thing, and then doing another immediately after with no reason behind it. Did you even care who you voted for D1? I can't tell. Also cases don't need to be long and lengthy, having a short case with a ton of incriminating posts doesn't make it weak. How about you actually talk about those posts instead. I'm going to grab some lunch / late breakfast and then get back to the questions directed at me I clearly cared who I voted for day 1 otherwise I would not have taken my vote off of iV | ||
DeusXmachina
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On August 20 2013 01:03 Alakaslam wrote: Now more on Deus. I personally like him shutting down discussion of the Xzav tomfoolery, because no more suspicion of me- Yay! However, as a Town oriented player, I really dislike it. Why should any discussion be stifled? And here he is using bully tactics too; "It is scummy to talk about it anymore"- no it isn't! Although I wish everyone would just forget it, we need to hash out whether or not scum was involved. I really don't like stifling that. That being said, I think Deus could be thinking about "Priority 1: establish your innocence", so this is the best way to do that. However, it could be "Scum priority: stay alive" so not anything better than null from me. I will keep looking into things and talkin I am not stifling discussion. That is just stupid. Do you expect everyone to stop and say "ok no more talk on the xzavier lynch". I am expressing my opinion and that is: The Xzavier lynch is unreliable for scum reads. | ||
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On August 20 2013 01:42 OmniEulogy wrote: I'm back, I think one if not both of them scum slipped in the worst way possible. Scum make mistakes and it is our job to find those mistakes and lynch them for it. In my first game scum literally said "this is my first game as mafia" and because I didn't push that lynch hard enough we ended up lynching a townie who tried to defend him. I see the vote on Xzavier by Slam and Deus as pretty much the same thing. "Oops I'm not used to playing as scum and I panicked" LosK's alignment doesn't fucking matter until we know which one of Deus or Slam is scum. If they both are we win the game but if it's only one of them and the other sheeped him or tried to make it look like a sheep vote THEN we can discuss LosK being scum. I've mentioned it before but trying to figure out LosK's alignment from this is pointless right now. This is cringe worthy. You are jumping to massive conclusions. Your reads are based on the assumption that scum fucked up. | ||
DeusXmachina
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On August 20 2013 02:02 OmniEulogy wrote: Anyway to cover everything else that has been said. Deus immediately starts his thoughts on me by again being inconsistent "After that he has a couple posts that target holy, ending in a case against holy, then drops holy. " "It's possible that Omni begins pushing a lynch on Holy, using the voting catastrophe, and drops it when it doesn't seem to be working. " and finally "and a few others. Here is the thing. Holy's defense is strong, and it seems like a town defense. He did bring up good points. " I say Holy doesn't look as bad as Slam and Deus anymore as well. Holy has not cleared himself with me but he looks a lot better than Deus or Slam, Why would I continue to push for his lynch when I've said multiple times D2 lynch should be focused around Slam and Deus. moving on I appreciate that Deus at least admits that he believes I do make some strong points and have been actively posting along with those. He also says that I seem genuine to him. Deus your first question doesn't actually apply to anything. Nobody had said anything more other than discussing the vote and I did make some other points on Holy for why I suspected him other than just his vote. I dropped Holy for reasons mentioned above. He was no longer my top scum read. 3) Because either all three of you are fucking useless as town or there was scum on the Xzavier lynch. How can you not see that is the better question. Deus goes on to mention that the only way you should ever use the lynch on Xzavier to scum hunt is if you make a case against Holy for it. Holy shit. (pun not intended) He then claims that I am trying to mislead town when apparently he thinks I'm genuinely scum hunting, making a case against Holy when in his opinion that is the correct thing to do and actively contributing to towns discussions. Fake Paranoia is so annoying. JAT sorry, I hadn't read your response to Deus when I had posted and I realize I did pretty much rehash what you had already said to him. My objective in giving my town reads is to try and strengthen / unify town when there was some very obvious shit that is happening around the Xzavier lynch. I also give my scum reads, and why they changed twice, please don't ignore that. Also stop trying to convince yourself there is a connection between Deus/Slam and LosK before we see any flips. It's hurting you if you assume there is one as it will impact your ability to see them as individual scum. I think I covered your question on why I still think LosK is town JAT. You're right. That was not a good point to bring up. I was a little alarmed at how you focused so much attention on Holy than just abruptly moved on. Maybe I missed something. I should not have assumed I knew what you were thinking. | ||
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On August 20 2013 02:09 Alakaslam wrote: You is JAT but y'all are as convinced as deus last game. Both seem like they could be town I do care who I lynch. It is like what happened to vlosk He was gone, I am only AFPC but still, I can't make detailed reads and stuff from my phone. Deus is stifling the very conversation you guys are having and you jump me lololol See I encouraged this very conversation but nooooooooooo man that is scummier than stifling it oh and btw you are all scummy for discussing this Ya seriously ##Vote: DeusXmachina I be the reps this is your page 35 moment "Hermano! Aiuda me!" (K, I switched now tell me why) "El viva rey!' (Silence, Xzavier is town) "HWOAOAH" Nooooooooooooo! This is soo soo bad. He votes me because I am stifling conversation. Well, I would like to think that my post last night generated a good amount of conversation. | ||
DeusXmachina
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On August 20 2013 03:55 OmniEulogy wrote: sure thin, although I'll say now most of his contradictions do point to very scummy behavior. He starts off by saying town should be allowed to lie and we should lynch lurkers, this also means it's ok for scum to lie as he says town will never catch lying scum. Town's mindset is to catch scum lying because they NEED to lie to stay alive, not to ignore it and let anybody say what ever they want. The policy lynch for Lynch All Liars exists for that very reason. In a newbie game you don't need to fake claim your role, in fact by town lying you just add more confusion to the rest of town. Although this was just his policy talk I felt it was a very important start to his game. He goes on to say he wants to put all the policy talk away, and follows it up by saying he's voting for a lurker because they are lurking and haven't posted. I know he's played a few games before, he knows you don't claim to cast a vote for pressure. EVERY vote should have the intention to lynch behind it. As town you want to get lurkers to contribute but you don't say "hey, this is only a pressure vote but you better start contributing or maybe it'll become a real vote!" That is not a town oriented move. It's scum focusing on a "easy" target and being very non-committal about it on top of that. If we still had hardcore lurkers I'd bet he'd still be voting for them doing the exact same thing. he goes on to talk to Holy and asks this question, "Yes he hasn't contributed, but do you want to make a case against him because he hasn't contributed or because he is a hypocrite?". This isn't something town says... "yeah he hasn't contributed and he's going back on what he's saying BUT that's no reason to make a case on him!" actually... that's called scum hunting and it's exactly what town should be doing. Unfortunately this comment stops Holy and Deus effectively stops any potential attempt at town talking about it at all. Which he has done several times now. Again this is not how a townie behaves. You don't try to stop people from talking about the only leads they have to go on, you contribute and try to find something else that other people have missed. Scum try to stifle conversation and tell people that it's scummy to continue trying to scum hunt. He has constantly been trying to work out association cases based on nothing, which although many townies unfortunately were doing, scum loves this and tries to hop in with their own, because it's pointless but it makes them seem like they are contributing. Once people see an association case it becomes very difficult for them to think about it in another way which effectively shuts down their helpfulness. Deus was completely on board with doing just that. his vote has been covered, but again it's scummy and there is no town benefit for him voting for a modkill. It only adds confusion. He goes on to claim that the voting catastrophe is irrelevant to scum hunting which it certainly is not. Town tries to gather information from clusterfucks like that but he claims it's scummy to talk about it and we should just ignore it and pretend it didn't happen. Makes sense considering he made the jump to Xzavier from LosK first. Claims myself Holy and ivLosK have some sort of connection..... not really sure how. "There is so much that can be said about these individuals. 1 scum, 2 scum, or no scum? Are they connected? Why the attacks on each other?" Mmmmmmmm WIFOM bombing town is so helpful. After everything he says about thinking I'm scummy, he then claims I'm genuine and have been actively contributing and posting and then calls Slam town. - then says JAT and myself are the scum team. Can not even make up his mind in the same post. literally has 0 direction and claims I'm trying to mislead town. Let's see what he's said... "II. Omni, iV, and Holy There is so much that can be said about these individuals. 1 scum, 2 scum, or no scum? Are they connected?" and "VI. Final thoughts I could see a possible scum team being JAT Omni." one (two) large post which comes down to an association case based on nothing. Baffle them with bullshit guys! they won't see through the smoke. Townies don't do this crap. Scum try to lie and confuse us, they try to stop scum hunting, stop conversation, and try to convince town that everybody else is scum. so yes, I believe Deus is scum and actively trying to mislead town by throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks, he himself certainly has not stuck to one story even in the same post. The only thing he's stayed consistent on is that the Xzavier lynch should stop being looked at. - scummy. I don't say town should be allowed to lie. I say it is unlikely that you will catch scum lying, so I would rather focus on lurkers over liars. I don't really understand what you are saying in the next paragraph. I was trying to pressure lurkers. At that time no one had really contributed much, except for holy, so that wasn't a scummy tell in my mind. Holy didn't clearly communicate his main reason for being suspicious of iV. Not basing any cases of mine on connections. The most I said was I could foresee a connection between JAT and Omni. I am probably off base with that one. I have already addressed in detail why I think scum hunting based on the Xzavier lynch is detrimental to town. Like I said Scum will try to capitalize on that opportunity. You, holy, and iV have a connection as far as the thread goes. Arguing among each other. Again you go back to me talking about connections, that is weak. I admit, It was preemptive for me to say that you guys were connected, but that was not at all the focus of that post. It was a very small tidbit of information. Furthermore, both of you were building cases based on the Xzavier lynch. JAT to a lesser extent, but he did bring up the voting prior to the lynch in his case. I did stick to one story. Your argument is weak. You are trying to find evidence when there is none. Here is the story. I think you are pushing an agenda, capitalizing on the Xzavier lynch. I think you mimicked Koshi to a certain extent, and your arguments are super weak. I think you are scummy. But at the time of that post, my biggest read was JAT. I outlined all the reasons I thought JAT was scummy. Furthermore I said Holy has attributes that seem scummy and that seem townie, and I am leaning town. I said you "seemed" genuine, and have other townie traits, but I am leaning scum on you. | ||
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Again basing so much on the assumption that scum fucked up. Also the simple fact that Koshi was killed does not mean he was on the right track. That is another stupid assumption. Scum could lynch him because they believe he will be a major contribute, or because they think nobody will dispute his town status. None of that means he was on the right track. | ||
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On August 20 2013 04:37 OmniEulogy wrote: because the people I believed to be town while watching the game were not part of the vote, the only person on the edge but I still believe is just useless town is LosK so at least 1 person on Xzavier should be scum. possibly two. if I didn't have a town read on Meow or JAT then I wouldn't be so sure. Okay if you believe one person on the lynch is scum why are you not focusing on Holy anymore? | ||
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On August 20 2013 04:38 justanothertownie wrote: Deus, noooooo. Quickly, are Omni and me still your top scum reads? If I was a 8/10 on you before where 10 is "this kid is 100 percent scum" and 1 is "meh he might be". I am 5 now. If I was 4 before on Omni I would say I am 5 now. Slam maybe 2, but I have not filtered dived him just yet. His vote on me is so silly. He can be bent to other's wills so easily. I will look into everyone else tonight. | ||
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On August 20 2013 04:42 OmniEulogy wrote: I think Holy's afk vote wasn't as bad as yours and Slam's. As I said earlier my case on him was pretty much revolving around how bad his vote was and that he wanted the "safe" option. I still think he's scummy just not my top scum read anymore. Why isn't Holy's vote as bad? It is substantially more under the radar (which is more scummy than attracting everyone's attention). It was done for equally as bad reasons. The fact that he went afk after does not mean that the vote is not scummy. Ok guys I really have to go. | ||
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__________________________________________Alakaspam_______________________________________________ The first mafia game I played was NMM XLV. When there was 4 players left, Slam being one of them, I made a massive case against him. I could litteraly make the same case now. So we lynched slam, he was town, gg, scum wins. Maybe that is why I approach slam with such hesitation. When reading slam's filter, I decided to focus on some of his better posts, and try to analyze them from both a scum and town perspective. Starting with this: + Show Spoiler + On August 16 2013 08:55 Alakaslam wrote: Rrgh Yes I get it. I will be more concise when unsure and post better cases and stuff. And I know I'm not usually fun to have around at LYLO, so I will try and see if I can change that this game. However+ Show Spoiler + page 35 FTW Hi reps)squishy Sorry about last time This is why please, guys, lynch for info- fine, but when it is clear someone is just playing badly... Lets not hasten to LyLo. (I hate Lylo in case you didn't notice). I think iVLosk! is a great guy to listen to in that case assuming he isn't scum. Doesn't look like scum so far- but skilled scum never do... He has been helpful however, and I like the point about captain obvious-ing around. If someone asks by all means reply. But let us not waste time clearing up stuff like that, that people should know from reading guides or asking coaches. So here I am! I'm here off & on for a bit, any questions? I mean, I know it's early but that is kinda my point. To me this post appears town. He doesn't feel the need to talk about policy, and he offers some good advice. Maybe, I am over-thinking this, but his promise to improve actually seems townie also. If I was Slam and I was scum I wouldn't say, "Guys I am going to improve this game". Instead I would exaggerate some of my anti-town traits and let everyone chalk it up to "oh this is how he normally is". No offense slam, but your play can definitely hurt town sometimes. I think your "juices" get the best of you. + Show Spoiler + On August 16 2013 12:56 Alakaslam wrote: Actually it was lynching the spammer- many of the things I said were trying to express my opinions, spamming was me trying to dick around. I promise not to do that anymore except maybe in spoilers if I can't help it. Therefore I am really glad you laid this out. There may be people like me who just get the juices flowing and go nuts, they will disregard you until they are the scummy one tunneling the wrong guy at Lylo- then they will have to fight not to become stimaddict 2.0, (sorry bout that but u know its true ing one) so like I say- rock and a hard place with "don't spam don't lurk" for me- so gimme a little grace and I will try to help out. For now, I have this: Ivlosk! - town, he is bamcis for lookin so, especially so early, therefore keep an eye out for even more badass scum play later if I am wrong (and I am wrong often...) HolyFlare- kinda early. I'm null, in fact, I'm null on everyone but ivlosk! and myself. It's pretty early guys. "Speak up!" -Seige Tank Driver (selected, Starcraft 2) Fellows, pleeeze!! Again this is another post I like, simply because he is one of the first ones to give reads. Plus, I think they were accurate at the time, and it does not seem like he is just bsing. Furthermore, he seems to be doing some scum hunting, or at least pursuing suspicion. Deus please elaborate, lurking > lying for scummy? Why should town bother with lies? and Never even crossed my mind, and I think I see why... Well ok then! That clears a growing FoS I had toward deus for now. When asked, he gives some decent reads that I would call a little redudant + Show Spoiler + On August 16 2013 23:11 Alakaslam wrote: Well I can answer this. So far, I'm liking iVLosk!. If I were still messed up on the lying thing I would have pushed (perhaps even tunneled) DeusXmachina into the ground based on that. That being said, one rolling scum might implicate the other for the same reason. This is highly unlikely, however, based on iVLosk!'s advice & etc. So like deus, I'm looking for activity from the current "lurkers", if I don't see what I would like to see by the time I wanna see it? Voting into that. Also I'm considering squibbles a bit of a lurker, he may have actually posted, however he only really made one post and seemingly left. Also, that post was called into suspicion by another player- which will always prick my ears up! But by his own logic plus lone, and my reply to lone, he's got about 10 hours I guess. Here is another one of his better posts where he seems to be doing some scum hunting: + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 08:08 Alakaslam wrote: Ok at the computer is fun Look the thread is only actually a few pages long- the game doesn't actually start until page 10. But here is what I notice, and think: iVLoski may be messing around some- I messed around a lot as town as well, so that's not enough for me but yes, I am aware he could be dangerous scum. I'm Watchin' him and Y'all should too. But I think your suspicion of him has brought out something interesting Holyflare; justanothertownie. look at this K look at this- What are your reads JAT?!? Holyflare has asked you for your reads, this isn't the clearest thing in the world and seems pretty reserved. I mean, I understand, I can be reserved, but make a stand- if you are wrong, or someone points out it doesn't make sense, admit it and move on- But don't sheep! Make a position and defense it. (<3 WhiteRa) Speaking of which, Yes Holyflare- I will work on my read on Deus in a minute. And then whole voting catastrophe as I like to call it. I am not going to read into this because I genuinely think the same thing happened to slam that happened to me. He gives some more "gutreads as he calls it" but I wouldn't call them noticable contributions to town. I feel like slam devolved into his old self after the Xzavier lynch. He does offer a pretty good explanation of his thought process before the lynch here: + Show Spoiler + On August 19 2013 14:09 Alakaslam wrote: Hi I'm back Read Holyflare's filter But basically I need to help convince town we aren't scum team because I went and was an idiot and got wishy washy The juices flow Ok so I voted vlosk because he hasn't been explicitly helpful, and then I remembered my meta impression of him was fallacious... Then I get the juices of reservation flowing and lo and behold deus is reserved too and I think to myself "I was reps hammer last time and in the event iVLosk is messing around to later be bamcis town he would be a great loss as a mislynch crap crap what we do now" and he voted Xzavier and I remembered HolyFlare and was like "oh yeah" and I was in hurry like 5 minutes from deadline so I just did it was not thinking straight and boom. So scummy like "ok let's bus vlosk and then not do it lol and since I think he is so bamcis I should just not make sense" or I don't even know what my scum motive for that mistake is. If you can ignore his talk about juices this actually makes a lot of sense. It is similar to what I was thinking in the moments before the lynch. That makes me think it was just bad town play on his part. I have already said his vote on me didn't make that much sense. I don't have a town or scum impression on it. After that he kinda just spams a lot. There is only a few things that stuck out to me as potential scumminess. 1. It's almost like he tries to blame me for his vote on Xzavier. Like damnit Deus why did you have to change your vote. Why didn't you answer me. That kinda thing. 2. A very interesting set of posts: On August 19 2013 14:30 Alakaslam wrote: Honestly don't know yet. I want to read what deus has to say, he was giving me mixed up gut reads and I'm tired ant not thinking best but I can think, I will try. I think at the end of the game night I wanted to lynch deus most ironically. I can't remember why On August 19 2013 14:32 Alakaslam wrote: K actually appears I didn't like deus or jat. Can slam not even remember his own reads? Why would town have to go back to see who they were suspicious of. I could understand this from a scum perspective. Scum would want to go back to see who they "said" they were suspicious of. I might be over-thinking it. Conclusion: Still town on Spam....I mean Slam... Still town on Slam. | ||
DeusXmachina
United States333 Posts
____________________________________________JAT___________________________________________________ My case on JAT earlier was not as strong as it could have been. I went through his filter again and tried to analyze everything from a scum perspective and a town perspective. At times he seems like he doesn't want to commit to anything, almost like he is fearful of being wrong, or saying something incriminating. Examples: + Show Spoiler + On August 16 2013 07:29 justanothertownie wrote: I won't guess anything based on the little I know right now. I kinda like his posts though. + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 01:30 justanothertownie wrote: Not really. I didn't like some posts from Deus and the first one of Squibbles that much but this won't tell me anything. I'm just not a fan of this rather pointless policy discussions. People can talk alot about these things without adding any useful content. I won't read to much into early contentless posts though. Bad experience last game. + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 07:24 justanothertownie wrote: Why do you ask me about those 2 specifically? Ivlosk: I said earlier I liked his first posts. There isn't anything else to say for me right now. No idea about his alignment. LoneMeow: Sounds reasonable to me. He brought up the policy thing but someone has to start discussion somehow. + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 08:17 justanothertownie wrote: Null. Whoever has a clear town or scumread on one of those based on what happened until now is suspicious to me. He starts off with this very reserved style. Not only does it hinder discussion, but it's a way to play unnoticed. He doesn't set himself apart from other players by taking an early aggressive stance as this would draw attention. He doesn't debate with anyone, say anything radical, or say anything that could come back to haunt him later. It's this reserved style that makes me think he is scummy. When does he open up? + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 21:19 justanothertownie wrote: Maybe you should read the context of my post? Alakaslam asked who was around and I answered so he could ask me questions or whatever he had in mind. Would you mind explaining why doing this instead of lurking is a scumtell to you? I will be here most of the time until the deadline btw. so if anyone wants to discuss something with me go ahead. I will read some filters right now because I think I caught something on the last pages (have to make sure). This is the first bit of zest we see from JAT. To me it seems overly defensive, considering reps (who doesn't have the best track record), made a simple accusation. So has he done any scum hunting at this point? No not really. Maybe you could call this scum hunting: + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 22:32 justanothertownie wrote: I have a question, sir. Why are you pushing these 2 while completely ignoring Xzavier who didn't post anything at all? Is this really scum hunting though? He asks a question, gets a reasonable answer, and doesn't pursue it. That did NOT contribute anything. Then JAT bandwagons: + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 22:49 justanothertownie wrote: Well, Squibbles should speak up then. ##Vote: Squibbles and again + Show Spoiler + On August 18 2013 02:43 justanothertownie wrote: Yeah... he is the only one I would vote for besides the fucking afk people. ##Unvote: Squibbles ##Vote: iVLosK! In the moments before the conclusion of day 1 he says: On August 18 2013 02:53 justanothertownie wrote: Man I don't like this... but interestingly doesnt bandwagon on the Xzavier vote. Hmmmmmmm. I ask myself why? Is it consistent with his play style? Absolutely fucking for sure it is. Has he done anything at this point that would make him stand out? No he has not. He says a lot of pointless things that don't contribute anything like: On August 18 2013 08:59 justanothertownie wrote: Can't disagree here. or On August 17 2013 22:43 justanothertownie wrote: Fair enough. On August 18 2013 00:37 justanothertownie wrote: Good point Holyflare. On August 18 2013 02:06 justanothertownie wrote: Ok, I guess... So, you would lynch iVlosk? On August 18 2013 08:56 justanothertownie wrote: Ok, fair enough. But it doesn't take a genius to see that the votes on Squibbles were just pressure votes. At least mine was and I am fairly certain LoneMeows was too. This guy seems very agreeable. Pointless posts are scummy. Being super agreeable is scummy. Some more bandwagoning: + Show Spoiler + On August 19 2013 03:14 justanothertownie wrote: I agree with your reasoning itself, Omni. Deus and Alakaslam look quite scummy with their voting behaviour. I am not so sure about IVLosk being town - I don't think his careless posting is enough to give him a town read especially because he is a veteran mafia player. You raise some interesting points about HolyFlare. I will read him again (he was null to me before your case). The first big case he makes, literally the first noticable contribution, is is stance against me. It is weak argument, he feeds of others' ideas, and offers little analysis on how my actions are scummy. + Show Spoiler + On August 19 2013 07:35 justanothertownie wrote: Ok, I read Deus filter again and I really don't like it. He looked very motivated pre game and you describe him as an agressive, active townie in the last newbie game. I don't see that at all in this game. He started with some policy posts without saying anything. That's ok in itself but after that his activity really dropped down. He wasn't agressive instead he asked generic questions like this: After I mentioned that policy talk doesn't add that much he quickly backed off. Feels really defensive (although this post isn't that bad apart from that). His scumhunting pretty much only revolved around lynching lurkers. Easy thing to do as scum. What seems weird to me is his stance on iVLosk. First he defends him. Then he is suspicious of him: Shortly after that Losk is town suddenly: But why don't vote for our townread, right? Then there is this: Followed by: Finally he claims not to have known this is plurality lynch which has been stated several times in the thread. He either doesn't read the thread or this is a bad excuse for his weird voting. I really would like to hear his reasoning for all of this. Also he should be way more active Day2 if he is town because right now I am really worried about him. and continues + Show Spoiler + On August 19 2013 19:46 justanothertownie wrote: So Deus, you don't like it if I quote you - ok. I don't like to quote such an enormous post anyways. So here is my answer to you but first: I thought about the whole thing since yesterday and I will admit that the lynch conclusions alone are not enough to forge a solid read on someone. I got caught up in this because your voting was really stupid even if it wasn't scum motivated. If you read what I said you know that I already mentioned it doesn't make so much sense for scum to voteswitch like that if iVLosk is town. And iVlosk is right that this is kind of an association case and that they are bad. Still I don't really like how you responded to my case on you and I will tell you why. Yeah, I quoted a shitton if you want so say it like that but I always explained what's scummy about it if it doesn't speak for itself like your voting pattern. You don't even adress one point of my case directly instead you are saying I am scum for pushing you? Wow, now I am impressed. Thats's the scummy way to "defend" against a case. You are absolutely right - a townie should change his reads if there is new information but did you really do that? What happened between your vote on iVlosk and your vote on Xzavier that changed your mind and if there is nothing why did you vote for iVLosk in the first place? If you can explain your thought process through yesterday to me instead of just claiming there is no way scum would do that I would consider changing my read on you. Also please explain to me why you didn't know it was plurality lynch when it was mentioned several times before the lynch (did you read the thread at all?). So far I see your case on me is that I am agreeing with people on things + OMGUS. Yeah, great case. Other than that: I am suspicious of Omni myself. He is obviously right about me but if I understand him correctly he obsed before he replaced so it is easy to know who looks townie to people and who doesn't and scum likes to give townreads. It is easy for them to give strong reads because they know who is town and who isn't. But what really gets me thinking about him is his reasoning. He doesn't even really consider iVLosk to be scum and still insists on you or slam being scum and I don't follow that. There still is only one alive player who I really have a considerable townread on and it's not him. I would really like you to keep being active Day2 and to keep posting reads. If this means you have to push me - do it. The same goes for iVLosk who didn't contribute anything for a long time now. I don't want to call him scum for not defending himself before the lynch anymore because it was very shortly before the deadline that he got voted but still several people were suspicious of him and there was always the possibility of him getting lynched earlier. I don't know what to think of him. It really sucks that slam is afk for half of the dayphase btw. The thing that stands out to me the most here, is he calls me scummy because I did not respond to everything in his case. JAT likes to tell us to do things + Show Spoiler + I would really like you to keep being active Day2 and to keep posting reads. If this means you have to push me - do it. The same goes for iVLosk who didn't contribute anything for a long time now. I don't want to call him scum for not defending himself before the lynch anymore because it was very shortly before the deadline that he got voted but still several people were suspicious of him and there was always the possibility of him getting lynched earlier. I don't know what to think of him. It really sucks that slam is afk for half of the dayphase btw. + Show Spoiler + On August 19 2013 20:08 justanothertownie wrote: Also I am still waiting for this. + Show Spoiler + On August 20 2013 01:14 justanothertownie wrote: For now it is just a question I want answered. + Show Spoiler + On August 20 2013 01:52 justanothertownie wrote: Just post the whole thing HolyFlare. Omni it is important dammit. I don't see any scum motivation behind this voteswitch if iVLosk isn't scum Newbie mistake or not. + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + On August 20 2013 02:52 justanothertownie wrote: Ok, well you could try to convince the people who want you lynched by showing them a scummier target. If you think thats Deus you should maybe raise some points against him. + Show Spoiler + On August 20 2013 03:10 justanothertownie wrote: Ok. Omni I would like you to make a summarized post on why you think Deus is scum. Try to stick to why scum Deus would do something instead of just pointing out contradictions please. + Show Spoiler + On August 20 2013 03:49 justanothertownie wrote: I feel so alone here... HolyFlare would you do us a favor and post the rest of your information if you have the time? What's with the other people - Lone, any input? Also Deus has gone mia again... + Show Spoiler + On August 20 2013 04:11 justanothertownie wrote: This game has just gotten way more complicated for me. When you are finished defending yourself give some reads please, Deus. This SCREAMS scum to me. It is such an easy way to look like you are contributing. Why the hell is he busy bossing us around instead of give us real, solid contributions. This is getting long, and it's getting late. The last thing I wanted to bring up was his questions. He goes overboard on the questions. So often he asks what other people think, or for other people's reads. It's ridiculous. JAT is scum. I am convinced. I will not pull my vote off him barring and massive development tomorrow. He does a ton of things to look like he is contributing. For example, the questions, the orders, the pointless posts where he says I agree or something along those lines, and the bandwagoning. JAT has not given any strong reads, and he has very few contributions. He has been playing an extremely reserved style and has clearly been blending in. This is exactly what scum aim to do. JAT IS scum. Unless he simply doesn't care about this game, there is no explanation for his actions. | ||
DeusXmachina
United States333 Posts
| ||
DeusXmachina
United States333 Posts
On August 21 2013 00:30 iVLosK! wrote: I'm gonna say some very mean things if we lose because you idiots lynched Deus. This basically summarizes my initial reaction upon waking up this morning. You guys are fools! If you lynch my you lose. So I will defend 1 by 1, for an hour and 9 minutes, because you know what I am fucking town, and I want to win this game. | ||
DeusXmachina
United States333 Posts
On August 20 2013 21:37 Holyflare wrote: DeusXmachina Let's talk deus for a bit, barring the connections between people, I want to get to the nitty gritty bits. I want to point out his overall motives so far, his contributions and his inconsistences. You all basically know the story about him saying not to lynch all liars, but lurkers etc etc, it's the first thing in his filter so I will ignore it for now because I honestly do not think it is relevant at all. However, this is where we begin the journey into deus' mind. See this for example: + Show Spoiler + On August 16 2013 05:14 DeusXmachina wrote: If you have a weak scum read on someone and they lie, well that might be evidence against them. I would try to understand the intentions behind the lie. Not crazy about the lynch liars policy. I don't know how to define lurking, but people who are being useless are equally as bad as lurkers. In fact, in some situations, I think spammers can be more detrimental to town than lurkers. I equate non-contribution to scum. I am glad you brought this up. I was thinking about this a lot in my last game. Well this is a newb game. Hopefully players can read some of the initial policy and learn what not to do. Lynching people who say stupid stuff got me into a lot of shit my last game. That being said, I am all for aggressive play and doing whatever it takes to weed out scum. On August 17 2013 09:38 DeusXmachina wrote: I am growing suspicious of iV. The way he handled holy's pressure seems scummy. He seemed more interested in discrediting Holy than actually contributing. + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 09:09 iVLosK! wrote: "I noticed it" =/= "this is scummy". It's sorta more like what you're doing. Putting together a case on me without actually voting me. Read D1 of my first game on this site. I don't like that shit and happily lynch people who do it. This is a good example. Attacks holy and contributes nothing to town. On August 17 2013 13:36 DeusXmachina wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 01:16 Squibbles wrote: I can see where the suspicion might lie and the implications of me being a lurker. I run PST and do work so my main times where I will be extremely active will be after 4:30, although I am reading up on all the posts throughout the day. If there are any questions of me feel free to ask, I am rather new so I getting use to all the terminology and what not. So far judging by the posts I am leaning town on deus but I cannot be certain and null for everyone else. It's too early for me to make an educated guess when the majority of people have yet to really reveal intentions. I'm thinking the larger players have been talked about a bit more, meaning they will always be under scrutiny, but that only helps them if they are scum. Only making that of note, not implying anything. I went back and read Squibb's posts and one line stuck out to me. This seems overly defensive. Slam passively called him a lurker but did not pursue it. There was not any real suspicion on Squibbs, yet he felt it necessary to defend himself. Squibb's could you elaborate on why you felt it was necessary to preemptively defend yourself, please. On August 17 2013 13:55 DeusXmachina wrote: Last thing before I go to bed. I thought I would post my thoughts on day 1 so far. I peg iV for town because he seems aggressive, and antagonistic at times, and to me these are definitely town traits. In addition, I believe Slam is town because he is trying to promote dialog and cut down on spam. For example, + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2013 08:08 Alakaslam wrote: Ok at the computer is fun Look the thread is only actually a few pages long- the game doesn't actually start until page 10. But here is what I notice, and think: iVLoski may be messing around some- I messed around a lot as town as well, so that's not enough for me but yes, I am aware he could be dangerous scum. I'm Watchin' him and Y'all should too. But I think your suspicion of him has brought out something interesting Holyflare; justanothertownie. look at this K look at this- What are your reads JAT?!? Holyflare has asked you for your reads, this isn't the clearest thing in the world and seems pretty reserved. I mean, I understand, I can be reserved, but make a stand- if you are wrong, or someone points out it doesn't make sense, admit it and move on- But don't sheep! Make a position and defense it. (<3 WhiteRa) Speaking of which, Yes Holyflare- I will work on my read on Deus in a minute. + Show Spoiler + On August 16 2013 14:17 Alakaslam wrote: Oh yeah, this isn't persona 4- herple diddly skerple xD Well then yeah like u said its what, half of one real day in. Give them some moar time. ... Yeah. But also, iVLosk not trying to stifle talk, trying to improve talk. Read deus filter anyone? Deus please elaborate, lurking > lying for scummy? Why should town bother with lies? On August 16 2013 14:17 Alakaslam wrote: Oh yeah, this isn't persona 4- herple diddly skerple xD Well then yeah like u said its what, half of one real day in. Give them some moar time. ... Yeah. But also, iVLosk not trying to stifle talk, trying to improve talk. Read deus filter anyone? Deus please elaborate, lurking > lying for scummy? Why should town bother with lies? And finally, I like Holy for town, only slightly, because he was the first one to get some solid discussion going, other than the policy chat. That leaves 5 other people. Of which my favorite targets for scum and lynching day 1 are xzavier, reps, and squibbs. These lurkers on hindering discussion, they are not putting forth new ideas, and they are not scum hunting. I will continue my firm stance on this, lurking is scummy. Reps why did you poke in today but not really contribute? Xzavier why are you not posting? YOU WANNA KNOW SOMETHING ELSE THAT'S FUCKING HILARIOUS? WITHIN 2 MORE POSTS THIS HAPPENS + Show Spoiler + On August 18 2013 02:48 DeusXmachina wrote: [b]##Vote: iVLosK! Then the xzavier shit follows and you know the rest of that.... Holy this is garbage. Other people already brought up inconsistencies in my early game play. Like I said my reads were changing. The comment on squibbles was doing a little bit of scum hunting. | ||
DeusXmachina
United States333 Posts
On August 20 2013 21:39 Holyflare wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 19 2013 14:23 DeusXmachina wrote: So the questions I want answered: Holy: 1. What are your reads, and why have you not been contribution to the town after day 1? 2. Why did you spend so much effort defending yourself? 3. Do you think Omni is scummy? 4. Are you dropping the case against iV? If so why? Omni 1. Why can you not come up with better reasons to suspect someone? 2. Why push hard against Holy and drop him? 3. How are you still hung up on the Xzavier vote being a reason to suspect someone? In conclusion: Holy: Slightly Town. Because of his initial aggression and contribution to town. Because if he is pushing an agenda he is doing a terrible job, by not contributing post day 1 lynch. Still wary of his actions. Omni: Scum. Seems to plausibly be pushing an agenda. Weak reads. Wary of his seemingly genuine contributions. iV: Neutral. Antagonistic grump who seems to be doing his own thing. IV. Lone and JAT JAT Why the hell do people have a town read on JAT? Lets look at what he has done so far. Where are his noticeable contributions? How can anyone be convinced that asking questions/giving advice is strong town. I think that reflects very poorly on Omni. Omni claims his strongest town read is JAT. W T F. Go filter dive this guy and look how many times he says, "I agree with that" or "I can't disagree there". It's silly. Here is his first big post, and first case against someone: + Show Spoiler + On August 19 2013 07:35 justanothertownie wrote: Ok, I read Deus filter again and I really don't like it. He looked very motivated pre game and you describe him as an agressive, active townie in the last newbie game. I don't see that at all in this game. He started with some policy posts without saying anything. That's ok in itself but after that his activity really dropped down. He wasn't agressive instead he asked generic questions like this: After I mentioned that policy talk doesn't add that much he quickly backed off. Feels really defensive (although this post isn't that bad apart from that). His scumhunting pretty much only revolved around lynching lurkers. Easy thing to do as scum. What seems weird to me is his stance on iVLosk. First he defends him. Then he is suspicious of him: Shortly after that Losk is town suddenly: But why don't vote for our townread, right? Then there is this: Followed by: Finally he claims not to have known this is plurality lynch which has been stated several times in the thread. He either doesn't read the thread or this is a bad excuse for his weird voting. I really would like to hear his reasoning for all of this. Also he should be way more active Day2 if he is town because right now I am really worried about him. First thing of note: He quotes a shit ton but doesnt give that much explanation. Weak case. Second thing of note: He argues that I am scummy because of my inconsistency. Let me just make something clear. Why is that scummy? Shouldn't town BE inconsistent. Reads are constantly changing, new information constantly surfacing, the game is fucking changing. Hell yes I am going to be inconsistent at time, especially at the beginning of the game. Weak weak weak argument. Remeber when I said scum will use the xzavier lynch as an opportunity to push and agenda? Well this is it folks. Targets me because I have come under recent suspicions, and makes a really shitty argument. His first real stance comes after the xzavier lynch on an easy target. JAT mimics other people. He bandwagons. This kid is scum. I can feel it. Main target for pressure these day 2. Lone Although I cannot say this with complete confidence, I believe Lone to be town. He asked some good questions, and seems genuinely invested in promoting discussion. Furthermore, he is playing moderately aggressive, is pointing fingers (like his case against JAT), and he is bold in his votes. I would like to hear in-depth analysis from Lone. I would like to see real town effort. Conclusion: JAT: Scum. This guys filter is BS. Not contributing. Weak stance. Bandwagon. Using Xzavier lynch to push agenda. Low key. Lone: Slightly town because of noticeable contributions and efforts to further discussion. V. Slam Slam is a weird one. He is goofy and hard to follow. I have a very tough time reading him. I don't think slam is scum but I will look into him in the days to come. He seems to be trying to improve his play, as Holy mentioned, and I think that is pro town. He is asking good questions, has actually taken stronger stances this game than I have seen in the past, and seemed genuinely confused about the iV situation. VI. Final thoughts I could see a possible scum team being JAT Omni. I plan on looking into Omni more in the days to come. I would like him to answer my questions. Because I am much more confident in JAT being scum I will vote him instead of Omni for now. We will see how things play out. -Sincerly A devoted townie you loons! ##Vote Justanothertownie I want you to actually just look at the overall structure of it, wall of text about me and omni, then 3 FUCKING LINES ON IVLOSK SERIOUSLY?????? not only that his second part of the post has 0 QUESTIONS TO HIM AT ALL??????????????????????????????? What more evidence do you want for this jesus christ.... His biggest scum read is JAT, his conclusion is that JAT is scum but JAT has contributed 100000x more than IvLosK at this point, total bs. but now that he doesn't think IvLosK! is guilty you know what, + Show Spoiler + On August 20 2013 04:27 DeusXmachina wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 20 2013 03:55 OmniEulogy wrote: sure thin, although I'll say now most of his contradictions do point to very scummy behavior. He starts off by saying town should be allowed to lie and we should lynch lurkers, this also means it's ok for scum to lie as he says town will never catch lying scum. Town's mindset is to catch scum lying because they NEED to lie to stay alive, not to ignore it and let anybody say what ever they want. The policy lynch for Lynch All Liars exists for that very reason. In a newbie game you don't need to fake claim your role, in fact by town lying you just add more confusion to the rest of town. Although this was just his policy talk I felt it was a very important start to his game. He goes on to say he wants to put all the policy talk away, and follows it up by saying he's voting for a lurker because they are lurking and haven't posted. I know he's played a few games before, he knows you don't claim to cast a vote for pressure. EVERY vote should have the intention to lynch behind it. As town you want to get lurkers to contribute but you don't say "hey, this is only a pressure vote but you better start contributing or maybe it'll become a real vote!" That is not a town oriented move. It's scum focusing on a "easy" target and being very non-committal about it on top of that. If we still had hardcore lurkers I'd bet he'd still be voting for them doing the exact same thing. he goes on to talk to Holy and asks this question, "Yes he hasn't contributed, but do you want to make a case against him because he hasn't contributed or because he is a hypocrite?". This isn't something town says... "yeah he hasn't contributed and he's going back on what he's saying BUT that's no reason to make a case on him!" actually... that's called scum hunting and it's exactly what town should be doing. Unfortunately this comment stops Holy and Deus effectively stops any potential attempt at town talking about it at all. Which he has done several times now. Again this is not how a townie behaves. You don't try to stop people from talking about the only leads they have to go on, you contribute and try to find something else that other people have missed. Scum try to stifle conversation and tell people that it's scummy to continue trying to scum hunt. He has constantly been trying to work out association cases based on nothing, which although many townies unfortunately were doing, scum loves this and tries to hop in with their own, because it's pointless but it makes them seem like they are contributing. Once people see an association case it becomes very difficult for them to think about it in another way which effectively shuts down their helpfulness. Deus was completely on board with doing just that. his vote has been covered, but again it's scummy and there is no town benefit for him voting for a modkill. It only adds confusion. He goes on to claim that the voting catastrophe is irrelevant to scum hunting which it certainly is not. Town tries to gather information from clusterfucks like that but he claims it's scummy to talk about it and we should just ignore it and pretend it didn't happen. Makes sense considering he made the jump to Xzavier from LosK first. Claims myself Holy and ivLosK have some sort of connection..... not really sure how. "There is so much that can be said about these individuals. 1 scum, 2 scum, or no scum? Are they connected? Why the attacks on each other?" Mmmmmmmm WIFOM bombing town is so helpful. After everything he says about thinking I'm scummy, he then claims I'm genuine and have been actively contributing and posting and then calls Slam town. - then says JAT and myself are the scum team. Can not even make up his mind in the same post. literally has 0 direction and claims I'm trying to mislead town. Let's see what he's said... "II. Omni, iV, and Holy There is so much that can be said about these individuals. 1 scum, 2 scum, or no scum? Are they connected?" and "VI. Final thoughts I could see a possible scum team being JAT Omni." one (two) large post which comes down to an association case based on nothing. Baffle them with bullshit guys! they won't see through the smoke. Townies don't do this crap. Scum try to lie and confuse us, they try to stop scum hunting, stop conversation, and try to convince town that everybody else is scum. so yes, I believe Deus is scum and actively trying to mislead town by throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks, he himself certainly has not stuck to one story even in the same post. The only thing he's stayed consistent on is that the Xzavier lynch should stop being looked at. - scummy. I don't say town should be allowed to lie. I say it is unlikely that you will catch scum lying, so I would rather focus on lurkers over liars. I don't really understand what you are saying in the next paragraph. I was trying to pressure lurkers. At that time no one had really contributed much, except for holy, so that wasn't a scummy tell in my mind. Holy didn't clearly communicate his main reason for being suspicious of iV. Not basing any cases of mine on connections. The most I said was I could foresee a connection between JAT and Omni. I am probably off base with that one. I have already addressed in detail why I think scum hunting based on the Xzavier lynch is detrimental to town. Like I said Scum will try to capitalize on that opportunity. You, holy, and iV have a connection as far as the thread goes. Arguing among each other. Again you go back to me talking about connections, that is weak. I admit, It was preemptive for me to say that you guys were connected, but that was not at all the focus of that post. It was a very small tidbit of information. Furthermore, both of you were building cases based on the Xzavier lynch. JAT to a lesser extent, but he did bring up the voting prior to the lynch in his case. I did stick to one story. Your argument is weak. You are trying to find evidence when there is none. Here is the story. I think you are pushing an agenda, capitalizing on the Xzavier lynch. I think you mimicked Koshi to a certain extent, and your arguments are super weak. I think you are scummy. But at the time of that post, my biggest read was JAT. I outlined all the reasons I thought JAT was scummy. Furthermore I said Holy has attributes that seem scummy and that seem townie, and I am leaning town. I said you "seemed" genuine, and have other townie traits, but I am leaning scum on you. NOW HE THINKS ME OMNI AND IV ARE CONNECTED?????????? There is literally no evidence at all other than me defending myself from omni's posts and me targeting ivlosk day 1 because he WAS scummy to me. To top it all off, he is pressuring Omni on why he took his suspicion off of me here + Show Spoiler + On August 20 2013 04:39 DeusXmachina wrote: Okay if you believe one person on the lynch is scum why are you not focusing on Holy anymore? On August 20 2013 04:52 DeusXmachina wrote: Why isn't Holy's vote as bad? It is substantially more under the radar (which is more scummy than attracting everyone's attention). It was done for equally as bad reasons. The fact that he went afk after does not mean that the vote is not scummy. Ok guys I really have to go. For these inconsistencies, and distancing and pure wtf?ing I am going to vote right now. ##Vote DeusXmachina Comparing JAT and iV is foolish. iV has made no attempts at blending in. JAT has. Both players have not made any big contributions, but atleast JAT has not been putting on a show. 0 questions to JAT because that would achieve nothing. I was focusing on You and Omni, I did not have any questions for JAT. How is that scummy? I never came to the conclusion that iV has contributed more. Please read what I write carefully. Connected? Someone already asked this, have you been reading the thread?, I said, or meant to say, connected in the sense that you guys were bickering back and forth, and I didn't think scum would bus each other in this way, which means at least one of you is town. I thought that would be a good way to approach things. I actually never said your vote was scummy. I don't know if you have been paying attention. I asked Omni why he thought your vote was not as bad as mine and Slams. Hopefully everyone can see through this bs. His case basically mimicked what a lot of others have said. Nitpicking small inconsistencies is no way to find scum. If I had more time I would go find a ton in your filter just to spite you. Again, who is more likely to be inconsistent? A townie who is not constantly thinking about appearing suspicious, or a scum who is constantly thinking about the ramifications of his actions. | ||
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On August 20 2013 22:02 justanothertownie wrote: Wow, sounds believable... I really don't know what to do with you. You are either very angry (because I made a case on you) retaliating town or scum. Your reasoning for calling me scum is so very very wrong it hurts. Let me show this to you: You state this and list a few posts whch I made very early Day1. Of course I am unsure at this point wtf! Please point me to your clear statements early Day1 if you want to accuse me of this. As far as I know the only thing you did at that time was discussing lurkers. Dude, show me one player who took a really agressive stance Day1 in this game. Apart from maybe iVLosk. Especially you did nothing like this. If someone raises a point against me I defend it. There is nothing scummy about that. And if you accuse someone of not scumhunting you better did a shitload of scumhunting yourself (hint: you did not). Yes, it did. I asked to get a better read on Lone/to understand his reasoning and it worked. I ask people to get them to contribute and post reads/reasoning so I and other people can read them more easily. This contributes massively. You instead did almost nothing of value. You had your cute little policy talk at the beginning, long phases of afk some defense and this ridiculous OMGUS case on me while completely ignoring most other players. You are actively working towards a very limited discussion in the thread which means you are either stupid or scum. First and foremost: It isn't enough to just state I am bandwagoning. Your goal as town should be to find scum motivation behind it if you want to include this in your case. There isn't. I said I don't like this because there were many people who didn't even vote at that time and it was very possible for them to return like you did. At this point it felt to me like scum was just waiting and considering if they had to do some last minute shit. I did not bandwagon on Xzavier, true. Now you want to tell me this is scummy? wat? I think it was stated often enough that your voteswitch was utterly terrible and stupid and now you are telling me I am scum for not following you? I stayed on the only person I thought might be scum at that point while you voted a 0 poster. Please tell me more about how scummy I am for this... You proceed by quoting some posts where I agreed with people.Yeah, those posts themselves don't have that much content but you should include the context. Almost always there was some kind of discussion before. Why should I not state my agreement if someone convinced me of something? Also, I have quite a lot posts in this game of course there will be some posts that are not that useful. This is just plain wrong. I don't really see anybody besides you who calls those arguments weak btw. (that because they aren't). Instead there were people who stated they liked this case. I guess they are all my scumbuddies then? I did not call you scum because you didn't answer every single point of the case. I called it scummy that you didn't even adress a single one. And it is scummy. Now to the stupidest point of your case: You think it's scummy that I tell people what I want them to do? It SCREAMS scum to you? The questions I posed and the directions I gave to people really started discussion in this thread several times when there wasn't anything going on. They ARE solid contributions. This helps people to to read others and it especially helps me because there always is a reason for the things I say. You even say it is bad how I am asking others questions? What the hell man? How am I supposed to get a read on someone if I don't get them to explain their reasoning to me. That's how I scumhunt (a thing you should maybe try someday because what you are doing right now is just OMGUS without thinking). If this is a really dominating scumtell to you then I don't understand you at all. A townie should not critisize another townie for creating discussion. You are either one of the blindest and OMGUSy players I have seen up to this point or you are scum. Holy took an aggressive stance day 1, I took a some what aggressive stance day 1, iV did the same. My stance was Lurkers will not be tolerated! I said that post 1. When asked what your stance was you wouldn't give it. Focusing on lurkers day 1, was what I thought to be a great way to scum hunt. Last game if I focused on the lurkers day 1 we would have got a scum on the first lynch. Being overly defensive could be scummy. Umasi last game was overly defensive and he was scum. My case was not OMGUS. I analyzed your play and brought up points that I think are scummy. You don't contribute, you bandwagon, you say a lot of pointless stuff, you boss others around, all in the hopes you look town. That is a good case, because that is exactly how scum can act. I say your bandwagoning because you join other people with little contribution of your own. Its not enough to just say, "okay lets see what squibbles has to say for himself" vote squibbles. I think the fact that you didn't bandwagon on xzavier is interesting, because you so readily bandwagoned on squibbles and iv. God forbid you do anything that calls attention to yourself? Almost every major actions you have made can be interpreted as an attempt to stay under the radar. SCUM. Your arguments are weak. I think you are arguing against me because they are valid, but valid doesn't mean they are not weak. You offer little explanation for why something is scummy, and again you mimic what others have said. You did call me scum because I did not answer every point in your post. People said I dodged it, so I went back and addressed it more thoroughly. Go read. It is scummy to tell people what to do. I can guarantee they don't say, " Oh JAT wants me to give my reads, let me get right on that. They give their fucking reads because that is what town do, not because you tell them to. It is a pointless way to appear town. You don't create discussion. A huge, analytic, post that takes a hard stance on someone creates discussion. Not your bull shit questions and orders. | ||
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On August 20 2013 22:11 OmniEulogy wrote: "but interestingly doesnt bandwagon on the Xzavier vote. Hmmmmmmm." - Deus talking about JAT. What. Would town ever actually say NOT getting on the Xzavier wagon is scummy at the end of D1? By this logic Slam is the most town person in the game. LOL I don't think so. Because scum don't want to do anything that draw attention to themselves, like voting Xzavier. | ||
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On August 20 2013 22:41 Holyflare wrote: Or pointing out shitty inconsistencies, not connections, I never said you 2 were connected scum at all. Shitty inconsistencies is a terrible way to scum hunt. I say this again, who is more likely to be inconsistent, a townie who is not concerned with the consequences of his actions, or scum who is constantly concerned with the consequences. A very experienced friend gave me some advice my first game when I was town. He said play without fear. | ||
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On August 21 2013 02:26 LoneMeow wrote: My top scum read ended up being the only one who was resisting the lynch besides Deus himself, and Alakaslam started looking more town to me. Sadly Slam's latest uselessness made him look less town again so I feel this lynch is a bit unsafe, I'd far prefer lynching iVLosK! who still hasn't really contributed much to the scum hunt at all. Lone don't answer this shit. Unvote me me. That is what's important. He is trying to distract you from the lynch. JAT is trying to distract you from the lynch. Don't listen to what he has to say. Unvote me. | ||
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On August 21 2013 02:28 justanothertownie wrote: Deus, you still only focus one me based on nothing. How can anyone be so fucking stupid? What you are doing right now is begging me to vote you because I can't imagine you being this dense. Based on some great stuff. We don't need to here this again JAT. You have already said you don't think my argument has merit. You are wrong, drop it. | ||
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On August 21 2013 02:29 justanothertownie wrote: You are either the worst case of misguided town in the history of mafia or actually scum. I will not be deterred. You can stop posting bullshit like this. It is not helping you. | ||
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On August 21 2013 02:31 OmniEulogy wrote: well, I'm not voting JAT. He's still a town read for me. I'm not gonna jump onto a wagon to lynch somebody who imo is a townie. I've said it before but the only two people I'm willing to vote for today is Deus or Slam and right now I think everything points towards Deus being scummier, although Slam's vote jumping around constantly again is worrying. I can't tell if he's just sheeping and is easily influenced or if he just doesn't care who he votes for. If you cannot be sold then vote no-lynch. You will dig your own grave if you vote me. If you are town, you are in the unique undesirable position of being the one to lose the game. Unvote me. | ||
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On August 21 2013 02:36 LoneMeow wrote: How would him voting no-lynch make any sense whatsoever in this situation? Because it takes a vote off of me and doesn't put it on a candidate who is in no danger of being lynched. If he will not vote JAT the best option is no-lynch. If he votes me we lose. That is why it makes sense. | ||
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On August 21 2013 02:38 justanothertownie wrote: You are right about his reserved play but if he is town then it is understandable if he thinks slam/deus are town don't you think? That's not reserved play. That's I don't give a fuck play. You are reserved. You have done nothing major that sets you apart from other players. | ||
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On August 21 2013 02:41 justanothertownie wrote: You made no major case against Omni and you did not generate much discussion apart from the discussion about you concerning the lynch. Stop trying to distract from the lynch. If you want so bad to discredit me then why the hell don't you just vote me! What you are doing is essentially the same thing. It hurts me either way. | ||
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On August 21 2013 02:43 OmniEulogy wrote: wait what's the difference between JAT and LosK in the "I don't give a fuck" category? iV draws attention to himself because of his bold "I don't care what you guys think", I am going to be a dick, You will get reads from me when I want to give you reads style. He sticks out like a sore thumb. JAT tries to make it look like he cares. He plays substantially more reserved, and under the radar. Everything he does could be interpreted at an attempt to blend in. | ||
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On August 21 2013 02:44 LoneMeow wrote: Deus, if you want to have a snowballs chance in hell of convincing me you have to provide something beyond "read my case on JAT, he's scum". Who would you think is likely the other scum? Why? Other than JAT? If that is what you mean? Omni or Holy. Holy has been a terrible contributor after the day 1 lynch. He has built weak cases, which is not his usual self. Omni because his cases are weak! They are based entirely on the contingency that the Xzavier lynch was a scum fuck up. He nitpicks small inconsistencies and calls them scum. Town is more likely to be inconsistent. Omni instigated the entire vote deus situation. If anyone is capitalizing on the Xzavier lynch it's him. He argues that scum fucked up over town fucking up and has nothing to back that up. It's a stupid assumption that he uses to build his cases. His main target are slam and I. Why does he not focus on anyone else? It's all centered around the Xzavier lynch. | ||
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On August 21 2013 02:47 justanothertownie wrote: You are hurting yourself. You are about to be lynched and instead of giving us reads about other players (saying I'm scum over and over does not contribute) or adding anything new you just try to get people off you by playing with their fear. You go down without giving town any information like a true scum martyr. I don't have time for in-depth reads. I have already made clear who my reads are. That would be absolutely pointless discussion at this point. | ||
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On August 21 2013 02:49 LoneMeow wrote: iVLosK!'s antagonistic style is not alignment indicative, he practically has to play that way as either alignment since he's shown he's like that as town, otherwise he'd just get instantly lynched. Like we talked about before meta is not a solid basis for analysis in newbie games. He doesn't have to play that way. Look at the consequences of his actions! Everyone is upset over the way he acts. He gets a lot of attention because of it. Scum wouldn't do that. They would draw attention to themselves in that way. | ||
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On August 21 2013 02:49 Holyflare wrote: and I certainly have not been making terrible contributions, I've made cases on 2 of you so far of whom I thought were most suspicious, if anything you have tunneled JAT and have been more useless. Your cases were terrible contributions. Your case on iV was based on stupid reasons. Your case on me basically repeated what others have said. Your case on slam was the best one. | ||
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On August 21 2013 02:52 OmniEulogy wrote: Different types of inconsistencies Deus. I've been inconsistent with my reads on Holy but I explained myself. I still don't have a clue as to what half of your votes have changed for, and everything has been pointed out with almost no response to those questions. Instead you tried to deflect suspicion towards JAT, myself and Holy and try to claim JAT and I are the scum team with Holy and myself having connections as well as trying to WIFOM bomb town as I've said before. I have said this twice before, literally twice. I was not analyzing connections as in they both could be scum. I said you were connected in the sense that you were fighting among each other and I felt like I could benefit from analyzing you guys together. | ||
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On August 21 2013 02:54 OmniEulogy wrote: According to you everything has been a terrible contribution. Not mine. Lol | ||
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On August 21 2013 02:57 Holyflare wrote: your voting is dumb, you should know that I said it last game and this game, making it so contested, nobody is going to fucking vote jat today I will not bus another townie for my own sake. | ||
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On August 21 2013 02:58 Holyflare wrote: no voting is not an option, jat isn't going to get voted, vote your SECOND highest scum read if you want any swing of things, there are 2 scum after all A vote on Onmi won't matter. I feel strongly about JAT. The vote stays. I will not bus another townie for my own sake. | ||
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Calm down Holy. It's just a game. | ||
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Can slam not even remember his own reads? Why would town have to go back to see who they were suspicious of. I could understand this from a scum perspective. Scum would want to go back to see who they "said" they were suspicious of. I might be over-thinking it. From my big post on slam. I should have gone with that. I should have fucking gone with that. Now you guys are going to chase after the wrong people. | ||
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On August 21 2013 06:02 justanothertownie wrote: This guy... Tell me how slam would have been lynched without me. Seriously, tell me. The only reason you are still alive is me not voting you, genius. No need to be an asshole JAT. You didn't secure the slam in any way shape or form. You tied the votes up at 2 when you voted slam. He wouldn't have been lynched if it wasn't for lone | ||
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I didn't think slam was scum and I stuck to my guns. Honestly, I bet slam is kicking him self for the Xzavier vote right now. I believed and still believe that is more likely that town would fuck up on a vote in that situation that scum. But I guess that's just a difference in opinions. | ||
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Ill try not to take it to heart. | ||
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On August 21 2013 06:11 justanothertownie wrote: I know you won't - you are way to stubborn. <3 <3 I have been told that many times. | ||
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On August 21 2013 06:47 Holyflare wrote: My cop checks disagree. So why did you make a case against slam if you cop checked iV night 1? | ||
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Ok so let me get this straight. I want a yes or no. You fake copclaimed correct? | ||
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On August 21 2013 07:13 Holyflare wrote: it's not a fake claim, it's not a real claim, it's a troll Isn't a troll claim still a fake claim? Yes or no, you fake cop claimed. Just want a yes or no. | ||
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On August 21 2013 07:15 Holyflare wrote: Blazinghand is a SCUM COACH, I don't think you quite understand what the thing you apparently do best (trolling) is. I guess if troll claim is fake claim then yes?? what kind of question is that??? So holy admits he was the first one to fake cop claim this game. On August 16 2013 04:52 justanothertownie wrote: You have no idea... The first person fakeclaiming cop this game will feel my wrath. Okay let's see it JAT. Give holy your wrath. | ||
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On August 21 2013 07:20 Holyflare wrote: hahahahahahahahahahahahaahahaha deus......... jesus christ were you waiting for that to jump on jat all game? Yeah holy, that's obviously what I was doing. It's not like I have firmly expressed my opinion on JAT prior to now. | ||
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On August 21 2013 07:21 Holyflare wrote: the slam switch was in the last 10 minutes of the day, there is no way scum would join on it when everyone was around And why not!! Look at how much town cred Umasi got last game for voting Gotard. | ||
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On August 21 2013 07:23 Holyflare wrote: this game is beyond comical We will see who is laughing when your targets start flipping. | ||
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On August 21 2013 07:26 Holyflare wrote: he joined right at the start, gotard was being useless and was obviously getting lynched that day, not to mention that vote was NOT plurality in this game plurality means the lynches could swing either way REALLY easily... at the current state of the game town is really far ahead and voting off a scum in the last 10 minutes of a lynch of day 2 when he had 0 votes previously would just not happen Lol. You apparently didn't even follow that game. So stop talking about it. The only thing that got Gotard lynch was a last minute vote switch by Zyrre. The only thing that got slam lynched this game was a last minute switch by lone | ||
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On August 21 2013 07:30 Holyflare wrote: and why did umasi HAVE to blend in, because I fucking targeted all 3 scum on night 1 and got night killed for it and you STILL didn't pick up on that Calm down Holy. Go get a tissue and wipe away those tears. This is just a game, and you are getting annoyingly personal. | ||
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On August 21 2013 07:33 Holyflare wrote: also jat could easily leave his vote on you and you would have been lynched and nobody would have asked ANY questions seeing as I was the only one on slam at the time, and no lynch or a town lynch is 100x more preferable to what just happened to scum Well duh. If JAT voted me it could have come back to haunt him. In fact, the only person that voted me is Omni, who I doubt is scum anymore. | ||
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On August 21 2013 07:36 Holyflare wrote: I was on you, omni was on you and jat was on you... I switched to slam and I was the only one on him then JAT did which made all the votes equal why would he even risk that when he could just stay on you and hope lone switched to you?? JAT wasn't on me | ||
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On August 21 2013 07:40 Holyflare wrote: sorry I meant lone, me and omni the point still stands there is no way jat would go on slam just so someone would switch He didn't go on Slam just so someone would switch. How did he know that lone was going to switch? | ||
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Because I took a very strong stance on JAT. If I got lynched, I would flip town, and people would start questioning JAT or reconsidering my reads. | ||
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On August 21 2013 07:52 justanothertownie wrote: Almost everyone thought you are scummy. Why should they start questioning me for voting you if I had the most reason of all people to think you are scummy? Don't you think people would start questioning those who voted against me. Escpecially you because you had the biggest motive to vote me off? It could be taken both ways. Or are you saying that I have been playing so terribly that nobody would doubt your intentions? | ||
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On August 21 2013 07:54 justanothertownie wrote: Also I don't really follow your logic. In a 2 player scumteam there is no reason to bus your partner if it isn't absolutely necessary. Sure there is. You make the most of the two players you have. If slam is coming under heavy suspicion. That's all the more reason you could bus him. It was probably just a matter of time until slam got lynched right? It doesn't hinder your night kills in anyway if he gets lynched. So why not bus him? It would get you tons of towncred. | ||
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On August 21 2013 08:01 justanothertownie wrote: You are aware of the fact that slam was a scum role and not a goon, right? Great idea to bus my only scumbuddy who is not a goon and play 1 vs 5 from there on without any pressing reason for it. The last game I played Umasi won 1 v 7 because he got awesome towncred for busing his scum buddy. | ||
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On August 21 2013 08:05 Holyflare wrote: Slam was a spur of the moment last second switch not an inevitable kill. Umasi last game HAD to bus his team because sc_am was useless and gotard and him were linked, he made no fight against gotard until my night post and then he came out all guns blazing which was very out of character, but you were too concerned with 1 aspect of his vote and that threw you off him completely... In this game jat was under no threat of link with slam, no danger of getting lynched probably in this entire game, it just doesn't make sense Ok fair enough. Is there anyone you would like me to focus on day 3? | ||
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The best thing I have done this game, is defending myself, during what would have been a mislynch, and my case against Omni. I will re-evaluate Omni and iV in the days to come. I think my case against Omni still has some applicable points. However, I must make sure I am not creating evidence when there is non. So my final thoughts: In order to be an asset to town, I will do what I can to help out by pursuing the two likeliest targets, Omni and JAT. I think the best way to communicate to you guys that I am town, is to admit that I was wrong, and move on. | ||
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One thing that Holy touched on, that I would like to reiterate: Why did not switch your vote to Slam if he was your number two read? When everyone switched off of me, I was in no danger of being lynched. Thus, your vote on my was pointless. Maybe I missed your response. Tonight I am going to look into iV, mainly for my own reasons, I still need a little convincing before I make my vote. I promise to look at him with as little confirmation bias as I can muster. I have been trying to convince myself that it is possible he is scum, so that I can look at his filter objectively. Although, right now my gut says it's unlikely. | ||
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On August 22 2013 02:59 OmniEulogy wrote: So I feel like things are fairly obvious at the moment for who to go after. I think we've got this in the bag town, LosK or Deus are most likely the last scum. Deus' soft defending of Slam all game and his attempt and convincing us Slam was town as he was being lynched, who could have seen in the last 3~ minutes the votes changing and Slam getting lynched because he would make yet another terrible vote. As has been said before, Why would you bus your power role scum buddy? Slam seemed to be trying to get votes off of Deus as well with his voting on and off him, possibly hoping the two votes that ended up on Lone would be enough. Alternatively we have LosK who I believed to be leaning town this game up to the Slam lynch. His vote on Lone was strange given everything that has happened, Slam and LosK have had conversations with each other that have had absolutely nothing to do with anything and my previous assumption that scum wouldn't play so ballsy may have been off the mark. It seems like he genuinely just doesn't care too much which makes it very possible for him to be our last scum. JAT still town! LoneMeow also very likely town. Holy is now neutral for me. I no longer believe he is scum due to the two other possibilities. I just want to point out that I was clearly not trying to convince you guys slam was town. The only thing I said that could be interpreted in that regard was, "I will not bus a fellow townie for my own benefit." That was in response to being pressured to vote switch off of JAT to slam. Lets consider my actions from both a scum perspective and a town perspective. Town first: I genuinely thought Slam was town, and expressed that many times. A large part of the arguments against him were because of his Xzavier vote. Similar arguments could be made against me and I am town. Like a said before, many times, I do not think the Xzavier lynch gave us concrete information. It was not alignment indicative. Instead, the best attack on Slam was Holy's case against him. I also firmly expressed that I thought JAT was scum so I pursued JAT. Last minute I did not switch my vote because I was so caught up on JAT and believed Slam to be town. Scum: Both Slam and I massively fucked up on the Xzavier lynch. We both saw an opportunity to lynch a townie and in the minutes before the lynch we both came to the conclusion that it would be best to lynch a townie, disregarding any connections that this might insinuate. Alakaslam decided he would bus me by voting me, yet decided to vote another townie instead. I defended Slam and chose not to bus him, again disregarding any connections that this might insinuate. Slam decided he would not help me on my case with JAT and instead voted Lone, an unlikely candidate for lynching. If you consider the two situations objectively, I think it becomes increasingly clear that I made my choices as a townie, however bad they might have been. | ||
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On August 22 2013 06:56 justanothertownie wrote: To Holys case: I don't think it is very good. It is based on slams actions (or on what slam didn't do) and not on Omnis. His scenario is possible though and some of the points he stated later were not bad. If you take Holy's case in conjunction with mine earlier then you might be more convinced. | ||
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On August 22 2013 06:53 justanothertownie wrote: It's good that you are here now. Those 2 were getting repetitive. So, who do you think is scum right now? Omni? I am eagerly awaiting your take on iV. Before you ask - I am not sure who the scum is right now. Well Omni or iV. Right now I am leaning toward Omni. That might just be because he is trying to build a case against me. So tonight I will look at them both objectively. I would say there is some light suspicion directed my way, which is fine. It puts me in the exciting position of being able to ignore it, as I know it is incorrect. So I can eliminate Holy, because it is very unlikely that he is scum, I can eliminate you because it is very unlikely that you are scum, and I can eliminate myself. I know that's obvious, but I am trying to communicate that it is most likely iV or Omni, and that is who I will focus on. | ||
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On August 18 2013 07:39 OmniEulogy wrote: Hahahaha yeah, unfortunately what I'm really going over right now is the massive clusterfuck at the end of D1. I agree with you completely when you say that nobody should vote for a guy with literally 0 posts. Town should NEVER lynch the "easiest" target which it seems like they did... that's complete scum mentality. Town lynch the scummiest players not the easiest ones -.- ... I'm also really upset that three people didn't even vote which makes it even harder to sort it out. so far I think I'm pretty happy with my reads right now though I think Slam really sticks out to me as scummy for jumping around on his votes so much, even to the point of voting for Xzavier on two seperate occasions, however he has been one of the most consistant contributors in the game albeit very spammy. I'm getting a newbie town feeling from him and with the amount he's posting if he is scum it wont take long for him to slip. For that reason I'm ok with him currently. I've never played with Deus but people say he's an aggressive townie. I'm not seeing any of that from this game. He's been asking really bad fluff questions which would be easy for scum to imitate to pretend to be contributing, his vote on Xzavier and his reason behind it were terrible or rather his lack of a reason. Then after the lynch on Xzavier he goes after Holy for something he was fine before and even said he thought Holy was town for. I'd say out of all the players he's my top scum read right now. And then Holy votes for Xzavier as a "place holder" never to take his vote off him. Very scummy behavior considering he goes for the easy lynch, and a way to avoid needing to actually come up with a reason to vote for somebody. As far as town reads go I had a newbie town read on Reps and so in turn I believe Koshi is town. JAT is my strongest town read in the game at the moment slight town read on iVLosK! and the rest are all neutral as I still have to go through the filters again. I'd really like to know why Slam jumped his vote around so much asap and why the hell all three of you (Holy, Deus, Slam) thought it was a good idea to lynch Xzavier. This is a post that I would point to as alignment indicative. It is his first in this game. Of the three candidates that he will focus on he focuses on Holy and Myself. At the time slam was not one of the best contributors, so this seems like a fake reason to "be ok with him currently". Another thing that really bugs me about this post, is when he says JAT is my strongest town read. I don't think JAT should have been anyone's strongest town read at this point in the game, unless you are scum and you know he is town. JAT and Holy would you interpret this post in the same way? Anything else to point out? Is this alignment indicative? | ||
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On August 22 2013 07:16 OmniEulogy wrote: simply put Deus, I kept my vote on you because you are my strongest town read, as you say three people switched to Slam meaning my vote on him would have been truely pointless, I would rather keep my vote on my top scum read to let people know where I stand instead of jumping onto Slam with everybody else. I was prepared to switch but instead wrote what I did at the end of D2. More on Deus, as I've said before I believe you trying to make Slam seem town while about to be lynched for the last hour, and him trying to keep you from being lynched by jumping off your wagon and trying to find somebody else to vote for is still very much a possibility. The only reason JAT has given me for that not being possible anymore is that it doesn't sound very believable that two scum were on the Xzavier lynch. You (Deus) didn't think even 1 scum was on the lynch and criticized me heavily for pushing it so hard when now obviously there was at least 1 scum on it. The other possibility as JAT mentioned is that Slam jumped onto Xzavier in order to save LosK who still would have been lynched even with you joining Xzavier (as it would have been tied 2-2 with LosK coming down from 3 votes) so if LosK is scum, Slam would have had to move to save him. Also sorry JAT I was going in circles with Holy till he decided to call it quits, which he never really did. Also Deus's meta is still relevant @Holy because he's still one of my scum reads. How dumb do you have to be to think Deus is cleared as town just because Slam flipped scum (And that is all that has happened since the time you were ready to lynch Deus btw) Deus vanished after Slam was lynched after trying to convince us he was town for an hour as well. Not even a "well done town! thank's for keeping me alive for another cycle!" nothing. He has been soft defending Slam for most of D2 and it's quite possible that the scum team just decided to both vote on Xzavier at the end cause honestly who the hell would see that coming. I do think I got a bit too wrapped up on Deus though, as thinking about it logically it would seem that LosK would be the scum buddy by looking at the D1 lynch and through the conversations between Slam and LosK + LosK's behavior in general has not helped town very much at all. D2 however imo points towards both Deus and LosK equally. As I said earlier, I haven't played this game anywhere near perfectly but that =/= playing like scum. I've pushed my reads, contributed to town discussion, tried to get others to contribute and even while Holy was pushing me he's doing things I said town should do to try and hunt scum. I've been playing this entire game for the purpose of catching and lynching scum and I think my obsession over the D1 Lynch and my push to get people to focus on the people involved on it was well placed. So I agree with some points here. A lot of things you bring up about me are not alignment indicative. Just because I didn't say good job town after the lynch does not mean I am scum. Soft defending someone who I thought was genuinely town is not alignment indicative. Furthermore, you could interpret slam's vote on me and off of me as a way to get people to switch off of me, but that is unlikely. I think you bring up some okay points about iV. I would be totally open to hearing a good case on him. I will make a case myself on him tonight. Based on my reads so far if I eliminate him as town than the only other possibility for scum would be you. | ||
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On August 22 2013 07:26 OmniEulogy wrote: JAT was by far the best player on town D1, at that point the three of you - Deus, Holy, and Slam, we're absolutely useless townies who voted for Xzavier, Lone had been fairly null for me, and LosK had been being LosK, there were three players who didn't vote, and Koshi wasn't in the game yet. JAT was the best town player you had D1. If you think that's weird after the shit storm you idiots caused you need to check your heads. Mind you I believe it's quite likely two of you were scum so... equally dumb move. Could you point me to some of the evidence behind this. I simply don't see it. My of the points that I brought up against JAT do not communicate scum or town, and I see that now. I could probably make a better case for lone being town day 1 than JAT. I think it is scummy to say you have a very strong town read on someone without offering any explanation. Scum can easily do that because they know who is town. | ||
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On August 22 2013 07:30 OmniEulogy wrote: look point of the matter is, if you think I'm scum go ahead and vote me, I'm flipping green if you do and then you're going to need to listen to what I'm telling you right now or you morons, and I'm pretty comfortable with calling you morons after the D1 lynch, are going to lose at LYLO. @JAT I'm going through LosK's filter again now. I am not going to vote you just yet because I acknowledge the possibility that you could be town. | ||
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On August 22 2013 07:22 DeusXmachina wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 18 2013 07:39 OmniEulogy wrote: Hahahaha yeah, unfortunately what I'm really going over right now is the massive clusterfuck at the end of D1. I agree with you completely when you say that nobody should vote for a guy with literally 0 posts. Town should NEVER lynch the "easiest" target which it seems like they did... that's complete scum mentality. Town lynch the scummiest players not the easiest ones -.- ... I'm also really upset that three people didn't even vote which makes it even harder to sort it out. so far I think I'm pretty happy with my reads right now though I think Slam really sticks out to me as scummy for jumping around on his votes so much, even to the point of voting for Xzavier on two seperate occasions, however he has been one of the most consistant contributors in the game albeit very spammy. I'm getting a newbie town feeling from him and with the amount he's posting if he is scum it wont take long for him to slip. For that reason I'm ok with him currently. I've never played with Deus but people say he's an aggressive townie. I'm not seeing any of that from this game. He's been asking really bad fluff questions which would be easy for scum to imitate to pretend to be contributing, his vote on Xzavier and his reason behind it were terrible or rather his lack of a reason. Then after the lynch on Xzavier he goes after Holy for something he was fine before and even said he thought Holy was town for. I'd say out of all the players he's my top scum read right now. And then Holy votes for Xzavier as a "place holder" never to take his vote off him. Very scummy behavior considering he goes for the easy lynch, and a way to avoid needing to actually come up with a reason to vote for somebody. As far as town reads go I had a newbie town read on Reps and so in turn I believe Koshi is town. JAT is my strongest town read in the game at the moment slight town read on iVLosK! and the rest are all neutral as I still have to go through the filters again. I'd really like to know why Slam jumped his vote around so much asap and why the hell all three of you (Holy, Deus, Slam) thought it was a good idea to lynch Xzavier. This is a post that I would point to as alignment indicative. It is his first in this game. Of the three candidates that he will focus on he focuses on Holy and Myself. At the time slam was not one of the best contributors, so this seems like a fake reason to "be ok with him currently". Another thing that really bugs me about this post, is when he says JAT is my strongest town read. I don't think JAT should have been anyone's strongest town read at this point in the game, unless you are scum and you know he is town. JAT and Holy would you interpret this post in the same way? Anything else to point out? Is this alignment indicative? Omni would you mind commenting on this? What were some of the contributions that caused you to overlook slam and focus on myself and holy? | ||
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On August 22 2013 07:39 Holyflare wrote: think of it this way, who would slam say in the qt would be the people to target? Me and you... It might have been the only option. He probably would not have said to target iV because he recently pulled his vote off of him. Also if you consider that fact the slam voted iV day 1, that means it's highly unlikely iV is scum. Why would a scum want to bus his teammate day 1. | ||
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On August 22 2013 07:42 OmniEulogy wrote: I was an observer during d1 so I might have been seeing things slightly differently than people actually playing the game / dealing with the emotions of trying to get through D1 and find scum with virtually nothing to go on but I felt like JAT was as I said before just... talking like a townie lol he seems inexperienced sure, we all are but he plays a LOT like most of the quiet townies I've played with who end up giving pretty good contributions and are there to bounce idea's off of and then come up with a case once or twice a day, which JAT had done pretty much as I would have expected of him if he was town. This is why he's kept his status as a townie for me. posts like these I liked from him He gave me the feeling of a townie who wanted to talk to people, try to open the game up and possibly scum hunt although he wasn't going to jump on anybody because of their first few posts. To me this is creating a town atmosphere which is something scum will never try to create. So I came into the game expecting JAT to be town unless he started to do some really strange things, which he never did imo. Your experience in the obs qt could have definately influenced your reads on JAT. However, you didn't back up your town reads when you said them. This would have benefited town. Also giving reads early on can be a great way to generate discussion. Case in point, Holy stance against iV. | ||
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On August 22 2013 07:45 Holyflare wrote: yeh but who would slam tell him to target first? my reads in the first day last game were all the scum team, he 'might' try and tell him to pressure me into looking scummy first It's possible. How come slam did not try and pressure you though? | ||
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On August 22 2013 07:48 OmniEulogy wrote: Holy because his vote was unique out of the three of you and I wanted to start with the xZavier lynch and build off it to catch scum, Holy's vote was very noticeable because of how it was placed, and then he went on to claim he was looking for the "safe" place to put his vote. That's a word town doesn't use while placing votes, and can sometimes be a scum slip. I then went after you because before I made Holy's case I had said you were my strongest scum read, with Holy answering me fairly well I let him drop although I was and still am suspicious of him and focused on you, JAT made his case, I followed up and then continued to push for your lynch through D2. Slam was a close 2nd but because he left for half of D2 I continued to pressure you as Slam wouldn't have been able to answer anything I asked him. (And he never did) So are you saying it was by a process of elimination. You thought that Holy and I were better targets so you focused on us. Then why did you say he was one of the most constant contributors (because he wasn't)? | ||
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Then why did he pressure me? lol | ||
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On August 22 2013 07:48 justanothertownie wrote: That's not wrong but it's a bit more complicated than that. Slam just mentioned in his special way that iV would be the best lynch at some point in time. He could have changed this read anytime if it weren't for Lone and me who voted iV immediately after that. Well that would be extremely risky considering how easily the votes could have changed, and were changing at that point. | ||
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Ok makes sense. | ||
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On August 22 2013 07:54 OmniEulogy wrote: contribution in the sense of activity out of the three of you, the more scum talks the more likely they are to screw up, and he talked a lot. I still said he was scummy and should be looked at as the other option besides you for the D2 lynch for... the entire day. activity is not alignment indicative. It still seems like you ignored slam without a valid reason. In the last newbie game a player named Umasi had the second longest filter and he was scum. Slam had the longest filter and he was town. That being said, if slam cut down on his activity heavily it would have looked very suspicious. | ||
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On August 22 2013 07:59 Holyflare wrote: would rather have sex than change my vote, ty Lucky bastard. | ||
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On August 22 2013 07:59 justanothertownie wrote: This is a good point. But this would mean slam saved iVLosk to mislynch him later and instead he continued to say he is town and bamcis and what not. I would actually interpret that as slam using an opportunity to give town reads. It was probably easiest for him to give a believable town read on iV because it was solely based on a couple points. Plus, generally speaking, I don't think it is wise to make connections in that way. If iV would flipped scum at some point people might be suspicious of slam. And likewise, when slam flipped scum it's a reason to be suspicious of iV. | ||
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On August 22 2013 08:58 OmniEulogy wrote: like... I literally posted, went to get a drink, refreshed and saw 3 votes on Slam and posted what I did at the end of D2. And you bussing Slam still makes sense, as I said before Scum would never expect to get to the end of the game with two people, this was a REALLY good chance to bus Slam seeing as how badly he was playing, if I was the other scum player, as soon as he made that vote I would have been the first to switch to him, no questions asked. It just makes sense from a scum p.o.v And then immediately you try to claim all the credit and get really overly into the fact that you did it all, that is really suspicious, especially with you now trying to lynch me and using 0 points from my filter and even agreeing with most of my reads + things I've said earlier. After I flip town you are going to look so fucking bad and if you are town you've pretty much screwed us all. TWICE. I should add. so yeah... gz on switching to Slam, that was a really uh... "easy" move you made. I think you are trying to entertain a scenario where he could be scum. You're ignoring that it's more likely that Holy had townie intentions in voting slam. | ||
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On August 22 2013 09:08 OmniEulogy wrote: nicely played Holy, well done man. I'm sorry I'm such a dick during this LOL WAT? Way to ruin the game. | ||
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/facepalm | ||
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On August 22 2013 09:12 Holyflare wrote: not like you didn't do it on my "fake cop call" I just wanted you to admit that you fake cop called so I could bring up JAT's so called wrath. | ||
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On August 22 2013 09:23 Holyflare wrote: that aint right cz im the doctor??? 2 DOCTORS! We couldn't lose. Omni you never had a chance. | ||
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On August 22 2013 09:27 Holyflare wrote: 5 for 5, scum hunter holyflare strikes again but you were not 3 for 3 on last game | ||
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On August 22 2013 09:31 Holyflare wrote: switch sc_am for nightcat and 5/5 still stands Well that is not as good as my 2/15 | ||
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On August 22 2013 09:33 Holyflare wrote: you should have claimed medic man, I was actually going to lynch you at one point I thought it was best to defend myself without claiming. I was so sure Omni was going to lynch you night 2. | ||
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On August 22 2013 22:16 LoneMeow wrote: D1 was just painful, so many afkers getting modkilled/replaced. I almost lost motivation and stopped playing after that. Some notes (all of this is up to when I got NK'd, didn't pay 110% attention after that): Omni played a pretty good D2, I wasn't really suspicious of him at all until seeing the post where he said Slam would also be okay lynch but he still preferred Deus, that seemed like possibly trying to distance from a potential lynch. JAT I suspected pretty badly during D1 for being so sheepy and avoiding giving reads, but his game picked up during D2 and I would definitely not have agreed to lynch him over Deus/Slam/iVLosK!. Deus was both town MVP (for getting Slam lynched) and at the same time very distracting with his crazy paranoia and conspiracy theories. Special award for being TEH TUNNELMASTER :D iVLosK! was just so very not pro-town with the non-participation and withholding reads. The overall feeling was that of someone not very interested in the game or scum (who aren't generally all that interested in hunting scum). Alakaslam was being very Alakaslam and to be honest, that really works good when you're scum. I was so extremely frustrated at not being able to read you at all. Would've been interesting to see how the game would have gone without the voting shenigans. Holyflare was the towniest town of them all to me, I don't think I had him marked as anything but null/town at any point during the game. Had I survived the night I'd have been pushing suspicion on Omni and iVLosK!, I was actually intending to make a "in case I die" post saying so but missed the deadline by about half an hour. Overall, very fun game even though a bit frustrating at times and quite stressful (just read my reaction to Slam flip). I especially enjoyed being for once able to look so town that I didn't need to really defend myself. Lol . Good job Lone. You played some great town. Also pro switch onto slam. | ||
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