Newbie Mini Mafia XLVI - Page 3

On August 18 2013 07:39 OmniEulogy wrote:


Hahahaha yeah, unfortunately what I'm really going over right now is the massive clusterfuck at the end of D1. I agree with you completely when you say that nobody should vote for a guy with literally 0 posts. Town should NEVER lynch the "easiest" target which it seems like they did... that's complete scum mentality. Town lynch the scummiest players not the easiest ones -.- ... I'm also really upset that three people didn't even vote which makes it even harder to sort it out.

so far I think I'm pretty happy with my reads right now though

I think Slam really sticks out to me as scummy for jumping around on his votes so much, even to the point of voting for Xzavier on two seperate occasions, however he has been one of the most consistant contributors in the game albeit very spammy. I'm getting a newbie town feeling from him and with the amount he's posting if he is scum it wont take long for him to slip. For that reason I'm ok with him currently.

I've never played with Deus but people say he's an aggressive townie. I'm not seeing any of that from this game. He's been asking really bad fluff questions which would be easy for scum to imitate to pretend to be contributing, his vote on Xzavier and his reason behind it were terrible or rather his lack of a reason. Then after the lynch on Xzavier he goes after Holy for something he was fine before and even said he thought Holy was town for. I'd say out of all the players he's my top scum read right now.

And then Holy votes for Xzavier as a "place holder" never to take his vote off him. Very scummy behavior considering he goes for the easy lynch, and a way to avoid needing to actually come up with a reason to vote for somebody.

As far as town reads go I had a newbie town read on Reps and so in turn I believe Koshi is town.
JAT is my strongest town read in the game at the moment
slight town read on iVLosK! and the rest are all neutral as I still have to go through the filters again.

I'd really like to know why Slam jumped his vote around so much asap and why the hell all three of you (Holy, Deus, Slam) thought it was a good idea to lynch Xzavier.

On August 18 2013 08:02 OmniEulogy wrote:


That's a pretty massive issue.... the objective isn't to find the safest person to vote for and then do it as town.....

Your reason of not wanting to get rid of somebody who might contribute doesn't work in this case. Xzavier had literally not made a single post, was very likely to be modkilled and you had stronger feelings against another player but you kept your vote on him because it was safer? Am I reading that right? Safer for what? Town on D1 doesn't need to worry about what the safe vote is. if you wanted to be safe why didn't you just ##Vote:No-Lynch instead of putting it on somebody who wouldn't defend himself.

I'm fairly certain I just got that last part wrong, would a mod be kind enough to tell me/us what the correct format is to vote for a no-lynch? Thanks!

On August 18 2013 08:05 OmniEulogy wrote:


Squibbles said two things, I have the gift of knowing that he was town and therefore I can tell you he was either a very new, or bored townie. His two posts also indicate that and while I was reading the game before being subbed in for him my read on him was town. Why are you deflecting the subject? Squibbles didn't get voted on, if he had this wouldn't be as bad as it is. At least you could argue Squibbles had said he would contribute but never did.

On August 19 2013 03:04 OmniEulogy wrote:


you are mistaking me asking you questions for me making a case against you. I don't need to start quoting your filter to bring up how weird your vote was and your logic behind it. However the soft town claim bothers me quite a bit especially with how the game has played out so far.


Why I think Holy is scummy.

+ Show Spoiler +
First off we have this large post which looks impressive at first, then after reading it you realize it doesn't say a whole lot other than the first few posts of nearly everybody gives him a town vibe. This is behavior of somebody who wants to look like they are contributing without actually putting anything of worth into a very large post very early into the game when there isn't really much information to go on. Tries to get on the good side of multiple people and not disturb things too much.

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

Another scummy move is to constantly keep asking people what they think about the others and not answering or very briefly answering questions directed at yourself. This way again it looks like you are contributing when in reality it is the others doing most of the talking. Also I happen to like LosK's pointless talk as it is part of the reason I have a slight town read on him. He seems very comfortable to talk about nothing in particular which sets most scum on edge and can sometimes make him a target for others to try and attack because of it. Which you later do.

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +
Not a townie vote or mindset to have. As mentioned before No-Lynch is always an option. Town does not look for the "safe" or "easy" votes.

+ Show Spoiler +

+ Show Spoiler +

Clearly you've had a problem with LosK all game, yet you continue to keep your vote on Xzavier, I can only assume it is to be "safe".

Lastly please don't soft claim town with a "I'm not going to post my thoughts at night, cause I might get NK'd!" after playing like shit and tunneling LosK for most of the day for play that I and a few others consider to be town aligned. It's bullshit.


My town reads are still JAT and LosK, I think if Koshi continues to play exactly as he has been I feel pretty comfortable calling him town as well. I think he's right with saying scum was on the Xzavier lynch.
I'm also leaning towards town on Lonemeow as I've really liked some of his posts, in particular these:
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
To me this looks like a town motivated mind set. He's actively watching what people are doing and how they are reacting to things and trying to see the town/scum reasoning behind each action.

Actually by quoting these I realize Slam also voted on Xzavier as a place holder at first. wtf. Sheep placeholder at that, scummy as hell. Add that to how much his vote jumped around and he makes me pretty nervous

I think Deus looks pretty scummy as well and also mentioned he wanted a "safe" place to put his vote. After looking through his filter carefully though I no longer think he's the scummiest out of all three.

On August 18 2013 07:49 Holyflare wrote:



I like how you ignore everything I've said the entirety of the game just to focus on the person I put my vote on. It was my girlfriends birthday today (went out yesterday for it/party today) so I left my vote on the safest person so far. If he posted once and voted he'd be still in the game and I would NOT be alright with that, I would 100% not be alright with wasting 2 days just so we could fucking waste another day talking about him and wasting the day on him.

On August 18 2013 08:31 Holyflare wrote:



I also thought he was town from what he has posted (if you actually read anything I posted, it seems you haven't). I am also not deflecting, the point you raised was that you shouldn't vote for a 0 poster, squibbles was a 2 poster with a no vote that also got modkilled, the REST of the town was on him right until the final minutes where they bandwagoned iVLosK! and then subsequently Xzavier. There was some suspicious shit there though and I'll leave it till the day before I discuss it. Not making the same mistake as my last game.

On August 19 2013 03:50 Holyflare wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

Not really sure where to begin with this, but here we go.




Firstly, this was right at the start of the day, not much information to go off but I wasn't around before and it is a hell of a lot more contribution than people had been doing previously, I was pointing out what people were doing differently from last game, what I liked so far and what the fuck people were thinking about iVLosK! with so much bs floating around. The top that was being talked about was peoples views on lynching lurkers and it got us nowhere, this actually got us off that stale topic and got people talking, more than anyone had done so far.






You are taking all of my posts out of context, I would have asked these questions within my bigger post and then it would have seemed more reasonable, possibly to you, but maybe those people would ignore it. I wanted to see who was around before I asked the questions in the first place. I asked for 2 different people to give me their reads because I had a plan set around it to retrieve more information, so I asked people to give me reads on a person I thought was scum and a person I thought was town to see their responses.

As for IVLosK I cannot comprehend what gives you a town read on actions like that. He contributes nothing, when pressured adds nothing in his defence and was going to be lynched off with nothing valuable to save his life. What speaks town for you there? A townie should want to do everything he can to stay alive but no, nothing like that happened.


As far as the Xzavier vote goes, it is NEVER a good idea to no-lynch on the first day. EVER. Like how does that even make sense for you to say? It's practically a free night for scum to do what they want, at least with A lynch we have a 2/9 chance to hit a scum, especially with a no poster who may vote last second. I would have switched my vote to iVLosK quite happily if I was around at the time, but read into it what you will I'd rather celebrate my girlfriends birthday than tell her I have to pop out to switch my vote on mafia.



As far as my reads go, I have a lot of information from the last day that will be helpful. I will post these in a bit after I've had some time to relax.

On August 19 2013 07:35 justanothertownie wrote:
Ok, I read Deus filter again and I really don't like it.

He looked very motivated pre game and you describe him as an agressive, active townie in the last newbie game.
I don't see that at all in this game.

He started with some policy posts without saying anything. That's ok in itself but after that his activity really dropped down.
He wasn't agressive instead he asked generic questions like this:


After I mentioned that policy talk doesn't add that much he quickly backed off. Feels really defensive (although this post isn't that bad apart from that).

His scumhunting pretty much only revolved around lynching lurkers. Easy thing to do as scum.

What seems weird to me is his stance on iVLosk. First he defends him.

Then he is suspicious of him:


Shortly after that Losk is town suddenly:

But why don't vote for our townread, right?

Then there is this:

Followed by:

Finally he claims not to have known this is plurality lynch which has been stated several times in the thread. He either doesn't read the thread or this is a bad excuse for his weird voting.


I really would like to hear his reasoning for all of this. Also he should be way more active Day2 if he is town because right now I am really worried about him.

On August 19 2013 19:46 justanothertownie wrote:
So Deus, you don't like it if I quote you - ok. I don't like to quote such an enormous post anyways.
So here is my answer to you but first:
I thought about the whole thing since yesterday and I will admit that the lynch conclusions alone are not enough to forge a solid read on someone. I got caught up in this because your voting was really stupid even if it wasn't scum motivated. If you read what I said you know that I already mentioned it doesn't make so much sense for scum to voteswitch like that if iVLosk is town. And iVlosk is right that this is kind of an association case and that they are bad.

Still I don't really like how you responded to my case on you and I will tell you why.
Yeah, I quoted a shitton if you want so say it like that but I always explained what's scummy about it if it doesn't speak for itself like your voting pattern. You don't even adress one point of my case directly instead you are saying I am scum for pushing you? Wow, now I am impressed. Thats's the scummy way to "defend" against a case.

You are absolutely right - a townie should change his reads if there is new information but did you really do that? What happened between your vote on iVlosk and your vote on Xzavier that changed your mind and if there is nothing why did you vote for iVLosk in the first place? If you can explain your thought process through yesterday to me instead of just claiming there is no way scum would do that I would consider changing my read on you. Also please explain to me why you didn't know it was plurality lynch when it was mentioned several times before the lynch (did you read the thread at all?).
So far I see your case on me is that I am agreeing with people on things + OMGUS. Yeah, great case.

Other than that:
I am suspicious of Omni myself. He is obviously right about me but if I understand him correctly he obsed before he replaced so it is easy to know who looks townie to people and who doesn't and scum likes to give townreads. It is easy for them to give strong reads because they know who is town and who isn't.
But what really gets me thinking about him is his reasoning. He doesn't even really consider iVLosk to be scum and still insists on you or slam being scum and I don't follow that.
There still is only one alive player who I really have a considerable townread on and it's not him.

I would really like you to keep being active Day2 and to keep posting reads. If this means you have to push me - do it.
The same goes for iVLosk who didn't contribute anything for a long time now. I don't want to call him scum for not defending himself before the lynch anymore because it was very shortly before the deadline that he got voted but still several people were suspicious of him and there was always the possibility of him getting lynched earlier. I don't know what to think of him.
It really sucks that slam is afk for half of the dayphase btw.

On August 19 2013 07:35 justanothertownie wrote:
Ok, I read Deus filter again and I really don't like it.

He looked very motivated pre game and you describe him as an agressive, active townie in the last newbie game.
I don't see that at all in this game.

He started with some policy posts without saying anything. That's ok in itself but after that his activity really dropped down.
He wasn't agressive instead he asked generic questions like this:


After I mentioned that policy talk doesn't add that much he quickly backed off. Feels really defensive (although this post isn't that bad apart from that).

His scumhunting pretty much only revolved around lynching lurkers. Easy thing to do as scum.

What seems weird to me is his stance on iVLosk. First he defends him.

Then he is suspicious of him:


Shortly after that Losk is town suddenly:

But why don't vote for our townread, right?

Then there is this:

Followed by:

Finally he claims not to have known this is plurality lynch which has been stated several times in the thread. He either doesn't read the thread or this is a bad excuse for his weird voting.


I really would like to hear his reasoning for all of this. Also he should be way more active Day2 if he is town because right now I am really worried about him.

On August 18 2013 02:56 DeusXmachina wrote:
Sorry guys. I couldn't be around this morning. Read the thread. Although I don't completely agree with Holy stance against iV, everyone else seems convinced. Not sold on squibbs. I would rather vote Xzavier but that is clearly not going to happen. Fuck I might change my vote. iV seems to aggressive/antagonistic to be scum.

On August 20 2013 03:55 OmniEulogy wrote:


sure thin, although I'll say now most of his contradictions do point to very scummy behavior.

He starts off by saying town should be allowed to lie and we should lynch lurkers, this also means it's ok for scum to lie as he says town will never catch lying scum. Town's mindset is to catch scum lying because they NEED to lie to stay alive, not to ignore it and let anybody say what ever they want. The policy lynch for Lynch All Liars exists for that very reason. In a newbie game you don't need to fake claim your role, in fact by town lying you just add more confusion to the rest of town. Although this was just his policy talk I felt it was a very important start to his game.

He goes on to say he wants to put all the policy talk away, and follows it up by saying he's voting for a lurker because they are lurking and haven't posted. I know he's played a few games before, he knows you don't claim to cast a vote for pressure. EVERY vote should have the intention to lynch behind it. As town you want to get lurkers to contribute but you don't say "hey, this is only a pressure vote but you better start contributing or maybe it'll become a real vote!"

That is not a town oriented move. It's scum focusing on a "easy" target and being very non-committal about it on top of that. If we still had hardcore lurkers I'd bet he'd still be voting for them doing the exact same thing.

he goes on to talk to Holy and asks this question, "Yes he hasn't contributed, but do you want to make a case against him because he hasn't contributed or because he is a hypocrite?".

This isn't something town says... "yeah he hasn't contributed and he's going back on what he's saying BUT that's no reason to make a case on him!" actually... that's called scum hunting and it's exactly what town should be doing. Unfortunately this comment stops Holy and Deus effectively stops any potential attempt at town talking about it at all. Which he has done several times now. Again this is not how a townie behaves. You don't try to stop people from talking about the only leads they have to go on, you contribute and try to find something else that other people have missed. Scum try to stifle conversation and tell people that it's scummy to continue trying to scum hunt.

He has constantly been trying to work out association cases based on nothing, which although many townies unfortunately were doing, scum loves this and tries to hop in with their own, because it's pointless but it makes them seem like they are contributing.

Once people see an association case it becomes very difficult for them to think about it in another way which effectively shuts down their helpfulness. Deus was completely on board with doing just that.

his vote has been covered, but again it's scummy and there is no town benefit for him voting for a modkill. It only adds confusion.

He goes on to claim that the voting catastrophe is irrelevant to scum hunting which it certainly is not. Town tries to gather information from clusterfucks like that but he claims it's scummy to talk about it and we should just ignore it and pretend it didn't happen. Makes sense considering he made the jump to Xzavier from LosK first.

Claims myself Holy and ivLosK have some sort of connection..... not really sure how.
"There is so much that can be said about these individuals. 1 scum, 2 scum, or no scum? Are they connected? Why the attacks on each other?" Mmmmmmmm WIFOM bombing town is so helpful.

After everything he says about thinking I'm scummy, he then claims I'm genuine and have been actively contributing and posting and then calls Slam town. - then says JAT and myself are the scum team. Can not even make up his mind in the same post. literally has 0 direction and claims I'm trying to mislead town. Let's see what he's said...

"II. Omni, iV, and Holy

There is so much that can be said about these individuals. 1 scum, 2 scum, or no scum? Are they connected?"
and
"VI. Final thoughts

I could see a possible scum team being JAT Omni."

one (two) large post which comes down to an association case based on nothing. Baffle them with bullshit guys! they won't see through the smoke. Townies don't do this crap. Scum try to lie and confuse us, they try to stop scum hunting, stop conversation, and try to convince town that everybody else is scum.

so yes, I believe Deus is scum and actively trying to mislead town by throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks, he himself certainly has not stuck to one story even in the same post.

The only thing he's stayed consistent on is that the Xzavier lynch should stop being looked at. - scummy.