TL Mafia LXII: TL Noir - Page 213

After the flip I think you made a 1 liner claiming that indeed. Before the flip nha. 1upping yamato and begging marv you could lynch Cephiro is not even remotely doing that. We were too busy seeing grack trying to ctrl+b his reads in excel. good fun.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36156 Posts

September 26 2013 13:54 GMT

#4243

See right.

On September 26 2013 10:03 Cephiro wrote:
I could get on a decond lynch if we get enough people on that, but not on a Zara lynch. I'm still leaning towards him being town. Especially as he brings up stuff like this which people have seemed to completely ignore:

Show nested quote +

Now please tell me why we aren't voting for any of them?

This *only* makes decent sense (other than just by pure basic numbers) if the contention is that FirmTofu is mafia. Zaragron seems to believe that FT is mafia, so fair dinkum. But Cephiro shows no inclination towards believing FT in mafia, so saying this makes no sense.

Reaction to the claim pre-flip:

On September 26 2013 10:52 Cephiro wrote:
That claim, what the fuck!? I'm not sure if I should believe it or not x_x Then again if he IS the town doc it's better that I get lynched instead of him, and I'm not leading by many votes.... fucking claims like 10 mins before deadline? Counterclaims anyone?

On September 26 2013 10:54 Cephiro wrote:
I just don't get why he would claim that if he really is the doc and wasn't the one getting lynched. There's no counter-claim but it's a really short timing window for anyone to react on. Fucking fuck. This is horrible -_-

Then post-flip:

On September 26 2013 11:18 Cephiro wrote:
OH MY GOD ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME T_T

Two blue lynches in a row. This is as hard as an anal rape can get Q_Q

Seriously people you need to start looking at some proper lynch targets. Today's lynch was between townies and and seeing at the results we've had I'm not wondering at all even if the first one would've been between all townies as well.

This really couldn't get any more worse.

Can he really be that surprised/shocked? Really?

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

September 26 2013 13:54 GMT

#4244

On September 26 2013 22:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Show nested quote +

Okay so in your last post your reasoning for Stutters lynch was "because there has to be at least one scum to defend Cephiro". If Cephiro is town, then, by your definition Stutters is not surely scum. What gives?

You are being really incoherent.

Aside this, can you give your thoughts on Koshi and Mr.CC?

(1) I know my filter is large and diverse so I can excuse not seeing this

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071&currentpage=205#4098

Its a case on Stutters, were I walk through my interpretation of his filter.
Feel free to challenge on any points.

(2) Koshi is really agitating with his reluctance to front a case on anyone, yet yell they are scum.
Doesnt make him scum though. As I said before, im done reading today (not cycle.. day). I can add him to the queue

(3)
CC. im 50% through CC
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071&currentpage=206#4106

raynpelikoneet

Finland43266 Posts

September 26 2013 14:00 GMT

#4245

On September 26 2013 22:54 Mocsta wrote:

Show nested quote +

(3)
CC. im 50% through CC
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071&currentpage=206#4106

Do you realize you made that case on N2, when the information about the flip was already available?
And you can't see what's wrong with that compared to your latest comment?

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

September 26 2013 14:01 GMT

#4246

btw rayn. im not confident giving CC an impartial read. I like the guy in general; so I have a natural aversion to read him town.

im confused because from what i read, hes clearly town (on my heuristics at least), but quite a few are concerned about him, including OO (who holds some weight with me after his VCA post thingo.)

Marv, cephiro thing he just posted looks interesting. I will prioritise him tomorrow.

raynpelikoneet

Finland43266 Posts

September 26 2013 14:01 GMT

#4247

Also in your CC filter dive you leave out a point that's most important to me (and should be to you aswell). Stutters.
You are leaving it out even though it's in the first 2 pages.

Mocsta Mocsta.. I am starting to think you are scum.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

September 26 2013 14:02 GMT

#4248

On September 26 2013 23:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Show nested quote +

Do you realize you made that case on N2, when the information about the flip was already available?
And you can't see what's wrong with that compared to your latest comment?

That went over my head?
Who cares when I made the case.. i wasn't looking at the flip when i wrote that. I was looking at his filter and making comments as I read stuff.

Did you even open the spoiler?

And no I can't see whats wrong.....

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

September 26 2013 14:03 GMT

#4249

On September 26 2013 23:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Also in your CC filter dive you leave out a point that's most important to me (and should be to you aswell). Stutters.
You are leaving it out even though it's in the first 2 pages.

Mocsta Mocsta.. I am starting to think you are scum.

Y u so retarded.. its there?

"Some general banter. post The comment to lynch stutters is not hard, so if stutters is scum; it means nothing for cc alignment."

raynpelikoneet

Finland43266 Posts

September 26 2013 14:06 GMT

#4250

Basically what CC says about Stutters is:
"lynch stutters"
"lynch stutters (lol)"
"stutters made some good posts, i think he is town"

This is never explained. Don't you find it weird at all considering you have a strong scumread on him?

raynpelikoneet

Finland43266 Posts

September 26 2013 14:09 GMT

#4251

Stutters seemed pretty town to me at some point, I remember thinking "Stutters isn't being completely useless and bad, that's different, probably stepping it up as town".

This is CC's last comment about Stutters. It's on page 3 in his filter. You have therefore read it if you are "half past" his filter.

strongandbig

United States4858 Posts

September 26 2013 14:10 GMT

#4252

On September 26 2013 16:09 Mattchew wrote:
Whats sad is that i dont think lm actually didnt play THAT bad a game if he really believed be wouldnt be lynched

Same as what I said about cephiro. This doesn't feel like a townie reaction to having just pushed a scum lynch.

Idk though, I still think Mattchew is probably town.

strongandbig

United States4858 Posts

September 26 2013 14:12 GMT

#4253

On September 26 2013 16:25 Mocsta wrote:
Stream of consciousness: Stutters695

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071&user=Stutters695&view=all

+ Show Spoiler +

First post: Focused on Kush, and others perceptions of Kush. If forced to decide, I will lean town. I think a scum that wants a "weak" player will go on the offensive directly to that player. Stutters decision suggests that he has read the thread, come to the opinion that Kush is scum; and noticed a comment suggesting kush may be town so is querying it. I suppose this is what a suspicious town *should* do; but, its still pretty selfish as an opening post. Why is he avoiding all the other conversation that occured? Overal, leaning town (just)
I really dont his campaign post here; but i dont mind his follow up to DP pressure here. Its pretty confident, and the reasoning is a valid interpretation for early day1 information. Ultimately, scum *could* generate that reasoning; but, I think the way stutters went about it is indicative of recent tl town style.
A few null posts. As either alignment, he needs to follow up; and justify the case with Kush etc.. I would say he reads genuine in conviction though. Guess with Kush, you can fake it. Yeha, stay as null.
Post: This is an interesting reply. As in, as town, I *think* I would respond the same. All I can think is that, as scum, I would try and belittle him for admitting the case is good. So conversely I assume as town I wouldn't do it. As an aside, in my experience, when someone admits the case looks good - its been from town -> kush is town
Post Keeps pushing for Kush. I mena its a good thing he keeps campaigning. But he dosent offer a thought on anything else int he thread. Even when talking about vigs, its to divert back to Kush. I think thats pretty scummy, even if the cause is good in intention.
Post hmm. I'm not sure how much i like the pressure on kush (his only scum read). I mean, hes campaigning for him.. but when pressuring it feels jovial and distanced. I guess you can argue that you dont have to convince your scumread they are scum, but still. I just get an odd feeling that its not serious.
Considering stutters695 writes short paragrpahs in general, i dont see how phone posting should be stopping him interacting either. Anyways...
Chairman I just dont get this. Has been "reading filters" for a timestamp difference of two hours, and his first contribution to the thread is to call out a another weak player. I mean, its not that town cant target two weak players; its that he promised to filter read, and is instead commenting on live person (that is flipped town) and hasn't had any bearing on the thread (yet).. Theres nothing on DP/Geript or VE or FT etc.. i dont like this.
Chairman also made a post stating it was odd stutters called him out like this - specifically the focus of the question. Its wrong My thoughts on reading was "how does chair plan to TRAP scum"... stutters post is "how does chair plan to MAKE LIFE HARD hard for scum". It might sound like a small thing, but it indicates stutters is not looking to identify scum.

considering he has failed to comment on live matters, and this is his second weak player target Im going to give him a scum read so far. I just cant understand the motivation for this query to chairman as town.
Post Says he has caught up; but only comments on chairman. I dont like his wording of "failed to demonstrate why it must come from a scum mindset".. but i wont hold it against him. I just dont like it, cos its a long sentence for a guy that types very little. Feels overcompensated. Will leave as null cos prob nitpicking.
Kush case The entire case is based on not caring about the lynch. Its funny, he debunks kush scum read on stutters (decided to target him pre-game) by stating, he has zero justification.. kinda a weird way to respond, but whatever..
as town: I used to make cases on Kush, but my case style is much different to stutters,so im finding it hard to detect if this is a scum or town case. I think overall, the case is pretty shit and lack lustre. Especially to justify Kush being his sole focus of Day1. I mean, stutters hasnt even commented on anything else other than a semantic from Chairman.. and this is his case? I dont think time is a valid excuse here, but I want to lynch for scum motivation, not poor play. Will treat this as null.
reads Finally, some reads. Lone is another lurker... this guy is got a habit of choosing ppl who dont fight back. What i dont like here is, he commetns on bad play from lone, but doesnt go so far to call him scum... so why make a post around reads if you not going toa conclusion? Then calls chairman scum without any justification? wat the?
Unfortunately, i can see town doing this post, so null.... ggrrr
association FINALLY, Stutters converses on something live in the thread other than kush/lurkers... guess who.. its koshi having a dig at FT.... this is very interesting. If stutters is scum (which is my lean) then FT could be an easy association.
marv pressure ncie question from marv, weird at the time. But now that im suspicious, its useful.
So stutters likes to bus i suppose? Admits his cases are terrible? Knows thread sentiment -> he wont get lynched for stupid shit

Doesnt help me. Accept, if kush is scum.. i need to check how much of a shit kush gave to be pressured by stutters. Did he just brush it off or fight back?
post Interesting question from marv again. based on the whole martyr thing, shouldnt stutters opinino have changed of at least one of lone/chair... stutters response is acceptable if he is known for tunneling. I suspect he is not (he didtn even mention tunneling in his self-description prior); so i think this is bad points for stutters.
post Like i dont get this... he set himself up to vote LM, so thats OK. But the thing with kush, i mean; he wrote a case and was campaigning it.. like, i just would expect him to adapt the case if it wasnt getting traction? Its like he moved onto the next best easy wagon choice.. Im really not a fan of this action.
I completely admit town can drop their cases if there is no traction, but he doesnt even state kush is still his top read. The only reason he dropped the vote is because town didnt think it was a good idea.. Yeah, dont like.
Martyrs by asking for a vig. Kinda weird, cos it acknowledges he is fully aware of his thread position. I actually dunno if town would say this, but feel like if i judge it, im judging poor play vs scummy play. Null
post aa hhhhahhh... this ties in excatly with what iw as saying before. He left kush alone because the thread didnt want a piece of it; admits it. Hes just looking at options. SCUM RIGHT HERE ! (thnx marv)
post STILL avoiding key issues int he thread, and regurgitating the same crap about kush and lonemeow. The reads barely updated as well; and doesnt pressure the reads. He basically throwing out shit on ppls names, and hopes other ppl get the traction on them.. I prob have a read a town game on him; but this is a pretty scummy way to play in general.
Last post sucks too. I wonder now whether Stutters will re-target to Kush?

I got a new scum read. Im a little jaded cos some of it feels like bias against extremely poor play; but theres a few things I just cant fathom originating from a town mindset.

(1) He never comments on live thread matters -> accept a timely delurk to defend FirmTofu.

In fact, the only people he talks about are (Kush, LoneMeow, Chairman) + 1 reference to FT. The 3 in front, are all easy target lurkers; 2 have flipped town.

(2) He never pressures his reads (unless you include that Kush case, which he dropped as soon as it didnt get traction) and when you read his justifications, he doesnt actually explain why its scummy behaviour.. its just poor play

(3) The vig request martyr is really odd as well. Martyrs seems to be the 'in" thing on TL these days, and its not alignment indicative (as in. auto-town).

(4) Can you say this guy is honestly scum hunting? This is beyond poor play, the guy clearly has read the game, and picks/chooses his times to comment. This suggests that there is certainly a motive/agenda behind the posts; yet he doesn't scum hunt.

SCUM RIGHT HERE.

I like this case. Seal of approval

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

September 26 2013 14:14 GMT

#4254

On September 26 2013 23:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Show nested quote +

This is CC's last comment about Stutters. It's on page 3 in his filter. You have therefore read it if you are "half past" his filter.

I dont recall reading that.. and if you want to know where i stopped. its where the last dot point is.

Pretty weak attempts from you.. Why arent you debunking Stutters?

strongandbig

United States4858 Posts

September 26 2013 14:17 GMT

#4255

Ok wait I just read what mocsta did. I had been assuming he like vote swapped on to lm. But he fakecounterclaimed him? What in the actual fuck?

strongandbig

United States4858 Posts

September 26 2013 14:17 GMT

#4256

Who does rhar

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

September 26 2013 14:18 GMT

#4257

On September 26 2013 23:17 strongandbig wrote:
Who does rhar

Does this mean the seal of approval is gone?

strongandbig

United States4858 Posts

September 26 2013 14:29 GMT

#4258

Nah I still like the case.

I just can't decide if your fakeclaim makes you scum, or if we should policy lynch you, or if we should let you live.

Like, I kind of see what Marv is thinking about needing to policy lynch you to guarantee the integrity of mafia as a game. Look at grack last game, he was scum and made a retarded fakeclaim (less egregious than this one tho) which got oeople to say "only townies would make this stupid a fakeclaim".

But otoh I really want to kill cephiro.

Koshi

Belgium38797 Posts

September 26 2013 14:38 GMT

#4259

On September 26 2013 23:29 strongandbig wrote:
Nah I still like the case.

I just can't decide if your fakeclaim makes you scum, or if we should policy lynch you, or if we should let you live.

Like, I kind of see what Marv is thinking about needing to policy lynch you to guarantee the integrity of mafia as a game. Look at grack last game, he was scum and made a retarded fakeclaim (less egregious than this one tho) which got oeople to say "only townies would make this stupid a fakeclaim".

But otoh I really want to kill cephiro.

Nha, it was the fact he added fake timestamps to his fakeclaim in a game that roles were allowed to be posted.
This is something completely different.

Mocsta

Australia9388 Posts

September 26 2013 14:40 GMT

#4260

If im going to be policy lynched.. Theres a bunch of other ppl that need to be policy lynched.

I personally think, if I was scum, I wouldnt have recanted the claim.
It was easy enough to say we both medic'd yamato.

But i understand thats WIFOM.. im just saying.. ppl have thought im scum for a long period of the game. This fakeclaim business is not helping my cause; i dont see how that satisfies a scum agenda. He was a useless doc this night anyway; as there is 1 RB confirmed, and it would have gone straight to Meow.

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