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On September 27 2013 10:43 Stutters695 wrote:
Moc; I'll bite:
Iirc: FT was my partner in Titanic, and I didn't need to defend him. Why would I do it now? If we were partners I'd let him roll on his own, or fabricate a confrontation as that is easy for me to do as scum.
2) I feel I explained why it was scummy. I can elaborate if you don't agree, and I think he still deserves to be lynched.
3) I've been sick and haven't cared to play. If I'm going to get Vig'd I'd rather it be n1 than later when my death honestly affects the game.
4) I haven't scum-hunted, I'll be the first to admit it. What "agenda" am I pushing except that I want to live, which I want to do as either alignment because surviving helps town lynch other people and keys me live in the cases I roll scum.
What about that actually makes me scum? wifom defense. Great work there.
Elaborate.. that's a first for you this game. Please do.
More wifom.. I have seen sick town ask for replacements. But this is a first. Vig me...
Dodging the crux. Yes both want to live. Your issue is that u keep talking enough to show u r reading and caught up. But then do nothing with it. Classic scum blending. And u were doing it again this cycle
I had to comment three times u ignorded my case to illicit a reaction.. that's bad.
Town might not retort to a case, but they will acknowledge it exists.
U just hopes it died along Sith my town cred
Scum scum scum
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Ok..time to make a stand
Are u voting me or cephiro or stutters
1 if us MUST go this cycle
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On September 27 2013 11:03 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm going on strike until we get some fucking modkills. Period.
Good point. Wtf happened to malongo??
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On September 27 2013 10:56 geript wrote:
But you should both be commenting in Arisen's last post. It's awful and scummy.
I get that... But
Do u think scum that is killing marv.. would then do what risen did?.. I.e. advocate to kill marv?
I don't think so. It's pointless.
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Umasi.
Who else than cephiro is scum?
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On September 27 2013 11:20 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 11:15 Mocsta wrote:
Umasi.
Who else than cephiro is scum? You and Sentinel. Rather, idk if you're scum, but you're the only person I would like to swap to atm, because I'm ticked with your doc claim, but that's not something town or scum would do, just ridiculous. Sentinel is my other scumread. But coag stated it pretty well, lynch marvs scumreads.
Ok. I like this honesty.
Please keep interacting with the thread though.
I'm gonna finish my cc stream
I do thinks town though. Espeicially his reaction at end of night.
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Risen...
I'm all for cephiro being lynched
What I am against is this cycle having zero discussion on other reads.. that's just a waste of 48hrs.
Even if me and Geript is scum
There's more out there.
Who else?
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Risen.
Can u cut out the name calling.. it's makes everything read as emotional.
Both of u have raised fair points and there was an easy answer to Geript pressure which you did not provide. I'm a bit concerned by that to be frank.
Anyways I asked before. Who is the other 3 scum. Surely you are not relying on association flips to make reads?
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No. Gwripts points are completely reasonable
The easy answer before was.. I had a slight town lean, so still would consider him scum at lylo
That's common with marv and acceptable to say.
You never said this. Instead you reassured us of your hard town read on marv. Which makes wanting to kill him very suspicious.
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On September 27 2013 12:25 Risen wrote:
Why are you talking to me? If you're scum you did your job and got the doctor lynched, now wait for Ceph to get lynched so you can get lynched. If you're town just go afk and/or stop talking to me as I'm not interested in playing with you.
This is a really odd way to handle my completely valid point.
Why are you going all ad hom?
The questions being asked are simple and straight forward.
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On September 27 2013 12:48 FirmTofu wrote:
Why do u guys spam so much shit... Just consolidate and post meaningful shit. Now I have to sift through this nonsense to find something of value...
Hypocrite...
Anyways when you are back
I would like to hear your opinion on cephiro and stutters
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On September 27 2013 12:56 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2013 12:50 Mocsta wrote:On September 27 2013 12:48 FirmTofu wrote:
Why do u guys spam so much shit... Just consolidate and post meaningful shit. Now I have to sift through this nonsense to find something of value... Hypocrite... Anyways when you are back I would like to hear your opinion on cephiro and stutters You are calling me a hypocrite? YOU? Have you even thead my filter? There is not a single post that wasn't straight to the point and pushing the thread forward. I don't know what is up with you this game, but you have no right to accuse me of anything after that play you just pulled.
Hypocrite
Cos u spammed to call out spammers
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OK..
Guys im about to land a bombshell
A complete 180' on someone I have been calling town for a while.
I still think Cephiro needs to be lynched First, so we can have closure from Day2.
However, Im trying to find the rest of the scum. And along with Stutters, I think this guy is confirmed scum
Post to follow
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Stream of consciousness: Mr. Cheesecake
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071&user=Mr. Cheesecake&view=all
+ Show Spoiler [part1] +- Opener(s) is trolling. Clearly non-alignment indicative.
- First meaningful post I hated this post when i first read it, and still do. But it is a personal thing. The whole "lessons learned" from past game, lets change up this game thing.. I tried that in the newbies and it didnt work. Mr.CC been around for a while, so i dont particularly expect this type of thing. Just reads as a really fancy way to advocate lynching lurkers -> policy lynch.
In fairness, the Geript analysis is an accurate depiction (but is easy to state s either alignment, ESPECIALLY, *IF* geript is town and cc scum).
Thing is, the thoughts do align with mine at the time of writing. Including the Coag callout and WoS suspicion. Will give a leaning town read (despite the want to lynch inactiveS)
- LoneMeow Even with flip hindsight, what Cc states is EXACTLY how i felt about lonemeow at the time. I recall this quite clearly. I mean, i know early game, town and scum are both looking for the same thing essentially, so its not out of the question a scum CC thinks like me. BUT.. im going to have to state it as highly unlikely. So far, CC gets town points... I suppose the only issue is that, CC makes this observation but offers no avenue for it to develop into something?
hmmm, that is kinda scummy.. ok, back to null; slight lean town.
- post Im not against this post but, for the record, i didnt think it was scummy pandain didnt post at the start. I just thought it was odd. I dont have a problem Cc used the word 'scummy' though; he could genuinely perceive it that wya.
- Some general banter. post The comment to lynch stutters is not hard, so if stutters is scum; it means nothing for cc alignment.
- post Pressures coag in a jovial way. At least he following through with Coag, its potentially a good sign. I like that he tries to get some insight into Coag, regardless of how generic it is. (Better than anythign stutter did)
- pandain defense case Nice answer regarding assuming DP is town. I mean nice as in tricky nice.. tough query. i will treat this as alignment null. I think almost everyone took DP as town after the yelling match.
Overall, case defense is solid; but the case was pretty weak (as CC had commented). So prob null (as not much effort would be required)
I need to be careful with CC, i have recollections of him being jovial in nomination mafia (as scum).
- post commenting because OO quote aligns with what i just said above. Case was easy, and CC needs to show more.. this leans town on OO very favourably. (i can't seeing this being a bussing comment)
- zaragon pressure OK, so this is teh full context to zaragon. Im going to give this a pass. It doesnt seem malicious. The only reason I *could* call thsi suspect is teh blatant sheeping of OO (who was chasing zaragon). alignment null
- post Not sure why "okay with lynching stutters" has a (lol) appended.
??
- Post I actually like this dont give a fuck attitude... BUT.. its missing justification on why chairman is a fine lynch. I think with thread context, its implied through yamato reasoning; still.. thats a potential sour point. Will still call this null/slight town lean.. Dunno why, i like reading this guy, makes me smile
- post hmmm this i dont like. not that ppl can't suspect my town reads.. just.. he never erally came out that he was unsatisfied with his previous discourse with zaragon & didnt list him on his to lynch list before. not sure what to make of this, as it is consistent with prior actions. will give benefit of the doubt.
- post Scrap the stuff with zaragon... That actually reads authentic to me, and explains the approach CC has taken to probing zaragon. Its just sniffing out something.. I do think CC is town.
- post Tough call, on one hand. the vote on lone aligns with his filter. On the other hand, hes directly influencing the direction of the lynch. Some would call this proactive town OR scum.. Will have to go with null even though it aligns with his filter.
- He keeps talkin about aperture. So perhaps his opener was real. He had a reality check in that game, and is trying to do a lessons learned.
- postI can see why Cc is after zaragon (noob card). I can easily see someone having that approach just glacning at his filter. Rest of reads are OK.. I think this guy is town
Part 1: summary
Ran out of time to read full filter; but from first 50%, clearly town. Right attitude, and thoughts align with me.. as in, he is saying things first and i have the same opinion. Thats massive points.
+ Show Spoiler [part2] +- Stutters Odd post. Prior CC lightly suggested Stutters should be lynched, for proposing a Kush lynch. Now he is saying, he seemed pretty town to me. I think the key is "probably stepping it up as town". Will figure out what this means, when stutters has flipped --> Bookmark
Aside from that, the pandain vote is OK (barely) - only for consistency. I agreed with him that at the time, Cephiro was sold as a lurker lynch. I commented the same.
- More banter; the continuation of pandain is pretty weak beanz. Wouldnt call it scummy though, plenty of people this game are pursuing targets for lesser reasoning.
- Sentinel Completely fair line of reasoning against Pandain. Still alignment null as its pretty straight forward question.
- Pandain This i dont like. I checked the votes, Sentinel had 3 votes at the end of day & all were non influentail ppl (pandain, coag, umasi).. Even though Sentinel was tossed up as a candidate, the real traction was Lone/Chair.. The drop on pandain is premature/weak. I can see town making a snap decision based on "memory".. but overall i dont like it. Pandain alignment is irrelevant, as now, it reduces CC contributions in the thread regarding pandain to meaningless. CC is back to null I think. (null if Pandain is town.. leaning scum if pandain is scum)
- post call me scum if you want, but this is exactly how i felt when he wrote it (i dont care if cephiro or lone was lynched -> nobody knew he was doctor then either).. i suppose its a good sign he has signalled again pandain is a bad lynch. He wasnt a wagon candidate, so it shows mentality that he is following through and believes his position.
Still going to treat it as null though, but does make me feel better about not paying attention to the votes.
- More banter. Then this post The last post is a fair point. LoneMeow hadn't done anything at all, all game.. But the first half is the intersting part regardless of CC alignment. Was//Who attacked lonemeow non-stop? --> Bookedmarked for follow up.
The irony I suppose is that, *if* CC is scum, then he is satisfying his requirement for LM to be town, and scum pushing an easy wagon... Food for thought. Will give CC scum lean for this then.
- Keeps bringing up pandain, and lenaing town.. Pretty good follow through of mind.
- More banter; I can really empathise with CC point of view. post I think we are similar in a few aspects.. so this isc ompletely null. I could easily say this as scum. I probably wouldnt because its kinda pointless; but I cna say it.. As town I say it, because im pissed ppl call me scum, so its kinda validation.
interesting.. i suppose based on that it is more a towny thing to do; even though its straight forward for scum to do. Will give it null for safety.
- Post Heres an issue with CC. pretty big. Hes commented plenty on LoneMeow issues and why he votes him. Here the suggestion is, he cna move off lonemeow (BUT NOT ONTO CEPHIRO).. this raises two issues
(1) If you truly felt lonemeow was scum.. why consider moving off him?
(2) Its not clear/existent what your thoughts on Cephiro is throughout the filter.. so I dont understand why Cephiro is instantly not being considered. (MAJOR ISSUE --> MAJOR SCUM POINTS)
- post This ties in witht he above.. assumes Cephiro is town.. like... from his filter I get no insight to how this conclusion is reached at all.. im pretty concerned now.
- post SOFTLY defending Cephiro... hmmmm....
So if Cephiro *is* scum.. this makes perfect sense.. CC is scum.
if Cephiro *is* town.. CC is probably scum hedging his bets to show town conviction (but fucked up by not giving enough in the thread to come to the conclusion that Ceph was town)
- Post OUch... CC is fucked now.. To Dec "But apparently nothing in Cephiros filter is justifiable from a town perspective".. meaning he has Cephiro as definitely town... *if* Cephiro flips scum, CC is confirmed scum.
Not because he thinks Cephiro is town, but based on how he handled the lynch between a town read (Cephiro) and scum read (LoneMeow).. he should have been arguying with the Cephiro voters to swap.. this is a major problem
- Which ties in with the spam later post the italics on "are" is odd. Normally would take it as trolling. But now reads (with a biased mind) as someone who wrote something and then forcefully changed it to avoid a slip... (will give null because cephiro hasnt flipped)
- zaragon At the time, i held nothing bad about the intentions of his vote swap to zaragon. Now on a detailed filter dive, this is terrible... he was adamant LoneMeow was scum; (recently in reply to deconduo) and now just jumps off without a quandary. Anothe reason why CC is scum.. His actions DO NOT align with his words.
(This has nothing to do with my town read on zaragon post-flip)
- More banter around the flip; which I guess is Ok in general... other than his vote is meaningless. I suppose Im trolling along as well; but I was actually f5'n the vote thread every minute to see where the wagon was going. CC seems to just be being present...i would say in general a point against him (would be OK if the vote was on a real wagon).
- post I dont know what to make of this.. Is he talking about Ceph + Lone.. or Lone + Zaragon? Context says its Ceph+Lone.
Hmmm, as pointed out before.. CC is scum regardless of Cephiro alignment.
The question is whether this is an honest alignment call on Cephiro.. --> Will bookmark; need to go through Cephiro filter.
- post uuuggghhh.. so hes f5'n the vote page too.. its completely non-alignment indicative, but gives some credence to the trolling before. It matches my mindset.
- The doc spin Tough one, its all WIFOM.. pretty concrete thoughts and knew instantly about yam (not that its hard to ctrl+f)... What i dont get is.. if he assumes this much so quickly.. that means he had a scum read on lonemeow.. so why did he jump off onto zaragon? I mean, I know i said stuff about getting counter-wagons going to see how ppl disperse, but thast because I wasnt sure between the two of them who to vote.. whereas, Cc seems resoundingly sure that LoneMeow is scum.
- weird This is odd as well. like.. technically it could have been right.. BUT.. he has had a scum read on lone and doubted the claim publicly.. this reaction makes no sense, as it implies he believes that lonemeow is doctor.... Yes, I dont like CC.
- explanation The problem with this is, that he said he believed me until he realized how ridiculous it was... BUT HE KEPT HIS VOTE ON HIM !!
His explanation reads great, according to memory of him in the thread.. but after a filter dive, its not true. He says he doesnt flip flop as scum, yet he dropped pandain easily, dropped lonemeow to jump onto zaragon easily.. then shat on ppl for thinking lone was town.. whilst being steadfast that cephiro is town without an iota of reasoning or mention !
CC is scum 100% regardless of Cephiro being town or scum (most likely scum). As Cc actinos make more sense for scum motive if Cephiro is scum.
Its too hard to summarise it (its all contained in part 2 of the stream, from "MAJOR ISSUE"), basically.. CC is a jovial guy, and I like him for general chit chat which is what his Part 1 stream was filled with, hence me liking him as town etc. (I guess what can i say, hes charismatic)..
But when you look at his actions, specifically around flipflopping on lonemeow..without a doubt, he can only be scum.
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On September 27 2013 12:59 VisceraEyes wrote:+ Show Spoiler +First: can we assume that sentiment is that Cephiro is the lynch today? Yes? No? Yes. We can. Because marv died and that was his dying breath right? Well guess who didn't give a shit who was lynched yesterday. Mocsta. First of all, he didn't really like either of the wagons at the time. Thought they were both town, and wanted to get a third wagon going on a third candidate in Zaragon. On September 26 2013 09:54 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 09:51 iamperfection wrote:
i dont think we have enough votes to switch to anyone that already dosnt have votes however. 50% of the game is between Ceph/LoneMeow. That means we can get 50% of the game on zara.. and then with a proper 3way (7 votes each) it will be interesting to see how the wagons respond to each other. Which...whatever. If that was his read that was his read right? But he was bucking an already split-down-the-middle lynch, trying to get another wagon going? One of which, presumably, we're ALL certain is scum today right? On September 26 2013 10:26 Mocsta wrote:
##Unvote
Just noticed Geript swapped sides.
Marv -> Zaragon... uuuuggghhhh
##Vote; Geript On September 26 2013 10:56 Mocsta wrote:
Yep, jsut checked lone filter.
no yamato + he was against chairman lynch (which yam was proposing) so we have a problem houston
+ he questions cephiro for lurking, yet wouldnt vote him prior.
##vote: lonemeow[/b
geript vote on cepphiro is a major problem. Okay so first of all, Lone's filter isn't long and he presumably would have read it before now because there were the candidates at the time right? But the other points he raises were issues BEFORE the doctor claim right? So why was he town before, or not lynchable enough to look for other candidates? If Mocsta was town on LM before, there would have been no reason to disbelieve the doctor claim. Period. He would have been like "Oh, I was right. Cool dude!" Nope. Mocsta wants to kill you. He wants harm to befall everything you love. He deserves your vote, and he deserves his fate. Firstly, thank you for following up on your suspicions and taking the time to write up a case. I really appreciate that there is something I can finally respond to, in terms of people calling me scum.
On September 27 2013 12:59 VisceraEyes wrote:
First: can we assume that sentiment is that Cephiro is the lynch today? Yes? No?
Yes, I am in agreement. But i dont want the cycle to fall flat on its face. Keep looking for more targets.
Yes. We can. Because marv died and that was his dying breath right?
No, Mav has nothing to do with it. Being confirmed town, doesn't make his logic correct by default. We lynching Cephiro because the reasoning was good AND now its trustworthy that marv is confirmed town. Dying wish has nothing to do with it.
Well guess who didn't give a shit who was lynched yesterday. Mocsta.
Quite a statement; false, might I add. However, I will indulge your case.
First of all, he didn't really like either of the wagons at the time. Thought they were both town, and wanted to get a third wagon going on a third candidate in Zaragon. Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 09:54 Mocsta wrote:
On September 26 2013 09:51 iamperfection wrote:
i dont think we have enough votes to switch to anyone that already dosnt have votes however.
50% of the game is between Ceph/LoneMeow.
That means we can get 50% of the game on zara.. and then with a proper 3way (7 votes each) it will be interesting to see how the wagons respond to each other.
Which...whatever. If that was his read that was his read right? But he was bucking an already split-down-the-middle lynch, trying to get another wagon going? One of which, presumably, we're ALL certain is scum today right?
Perhaps, but certainly no one exhibited that confidence yesterday (for the people present)..
AND where you fall short is that, if Cephiro is scum and I am scum, I coulda jumped onto LoneMeow with no penalty.
On September 26 2013 10:26 Mocsta wrote:
##Unvote
Just noticed Geript swapped sides.
Marv -> Zaragon... uuuuggghhhh
##Vote; Geript
[B]On September 26 2013 10:56 Mocsta wrote:
Yep, jsut checked lone filter.
no yamato + he was against chairman lynch (which yam was proposing) so we have a problem houston
+ he questions cephiro for lurking, yet wouldnt vote him prior.
##vote: lonemeow[/b
geript vote on cepphiro is a major problem.
Okay so first of all, Lone's filter isn't long and he presumably would have read it before now because there were the candidates at the time right? But the other points he raises were issues BEFORE the doctor claim right? So why was he town before, or not lynchable enough to look for other candidates? I dont understand what you are suggesting? The second quote (geript vote on cepphiro is a major problem) occured AFTER lonemeow claimed doc.
Im basically being transparent, and identifying that Geript vote swap, was a contributor to me thinking lonemeow claim was fake. This along with CC pointing out lonemeow had no reference of Yam, made me doubt lonemeow enough to fake claim.
If Mocsta was town on LM before, there would have been no reason to disbelieve the doctor claim. Period. He would have been like "Oh, I was right. Cool dude!" I wasn't full town on either of them, i was completely uncertain of which way to go. This is clear in my filter, where I raise pro/cons for either of them. I was leaning scummier on lonemeow, as cephiro was at least trying to survive, whereas lonemeow was a complete non-entity.
Nope.
[b]Mocsta wants to kill you. He wants harm to befall everything you love. He deserves your vote, and he deserves his fate Yeah i disagree. This analysis is pretty poor; ultimately, nothing pointed out is fact. You are taking leaps of faith to justify an outcome you are manufacturing.
Look, lets play a game... you have done your analysis, and thinking I am scum.
How about read the rest of my filter, and identify how my motivations have been pushing scum agenda for everything else I have been endorsing.
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On September 27 2013 13:25 Zaragon wrote:Trying to knee-jerk a role to come out, throwing himself on the bullet for Cephiro since he's suspicious himself already and expect to get lynched? Maybe I'm just sleep-deprived, it could definitely be flawed logic. Anyway, see you tomorrow guys
What?
ObivousOne was roleblocked yesterday.
Surely someone would be RB'd today?
Why does asking about an RB suggest I am scum? seriously dude?
Let me guess, you were RB'd; and took my question to the thread personally?
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On September 27 2013 13:27 geript wrote:
One quick point before my phone dies. Town VE wouldn't necessarily follow up on my risen read, but he'd follow up on rise a response. His response is really fucking scummy and VE ignoring it entirely to lead a third lynch is way off base. Even more off base is the fact that VE isn't making a real hard push for why Moc is scum. Risen made a bad post and got caught. Be tried to cover for him. Risen continued to pander. Scum had to improvise while VE was mysteriously absent from thread to figure out how to respond and chainsawed onto Moc.
Yeah, thats quite a fair comment.
Why is everyone ignoring what I wrote about Mr.CC?
You don't seem confirmation biased against me (Im looking at zaragon here).. Can you please have a read.
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So ve
The best you can produce for this game is what boils down to a policy lynch
Even though you don't have time to find scum for genuine reasons, you had time to manufacture that case.
Did you want to be my next stream of consciousness?
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On September 27 2013 13:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
Mocsta you're a snake, and what's worse is that you're more verbose and eloquent than I am. You're willing to put more time into this game than I am, and frankly there's nothing you say that is going to make me believe that you're town based on the shenanigans surrounding the lynch. Inexcusable if you're town. My activity is one thing, but what you did to the lynch is completely inexcusable if you're town. I prefer to believe that you're incapable. That you could NOT do what you did to the lynch yesterday as town. And so that's where my vote lies.
Btw
I take this as a refusal to take up my challenge to read my filter and identify scum motivations for things I have endorsed.
Correct?
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EPT
