EPTGotards most recent posts should be considered pure wifom imo.
not everything.
Newbie Mini Mafia XLIV - Page 103
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Umasi
United States1399 Posts
Gotards most recent posts should be considered pure wifom imo. not everything. | ||
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Xzavier
United States393 Posts
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On July 18 2013 13:40 Onegu wrote: Sorry posting from hospital, feeling bad but will be out later today. Im off nightcat now, he and gotard arent scum together look at there interactions with each other I doubt they would bus each other that hard. Totally down for a alakaslam lynch. Hurricane is only slightly scum to me and I will take my sights off him for a bit, still think he has alot of scummy posts though. So you think that Alaka is scum by process of elimination? You thought that Sponge and Nightcat were scum. Then Gotard flipped. You did not think that Gotard and Nightcat were scum together so you now think Nightcat is more town. Part of your case on Sponge was Scum-scum with Nightcat, so you think that Sponge is less scum now. Is that correct? Any other reasons why you think Alaka is scum? (get well soon :p ) | ||
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Umasi
United States1399 Posts
Sponge, Chrom, and Hz I have large town reads on, can't really explain why, but it would take a LOT to make me vote them. Superfluous is someone I'd still be game for lynching, he's had a few posts that have made me think otherwise, but he straight up does not have enough of them. He's so noncommittal to anything he says, and tries to stay out of the spotlight. In fact, the goal of his posting seems to be to stay out of the spotlight. I'm not sold on Xzavier either way, I've read him as town, but that might be bias from previous games. For whatever reason, he "feels" town and I'll leave it at that. One of these days though you'll have to have a day off Xzav, I expect great things from you that day :3 Alakaslam is slightly scummy to me, but half of that is probably my reading comprehension issues with him. He's been all over the place, and I don't have any experience WITH reading him, but I just want to lynch him to make the game easier for me to read t.t Leaning kinda town on Onegu for no particular reason, so w.e hasn't been around though. Nightcat......lynch all lurkers etc etc, don't actually know if it's "lurking", but still, would lynch. I could basically be convinced to anyone not Sponge, Chrom, or Hz. If I die, Superfluous and Nightcat are the two I'd prefer everyone focus on. | ||
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Umasi
United States1399 Posts
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Nightcat99
United States239 Posts
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On July 19 2013 03:27 Superfluous wrote: I felt the exact same way, was gonna post same thing. Would you consider those not on this list scum reads through process of elimination? I am not sure if this was directed at Alaka or me, but I will answer anyway. I think it is likely that his scum reads are based on elimination, except possibly for his read on you (Super). With 9 players still in the game I do not like using process of elimination. Additionally, I am surprised that people are getting so many strong town reads. Even my strongest town reads could very well be scum at this point. On day 3, I might be able to actually confirm a town read or two, but I cannot at the moment so I am surprised that other people can. Perhaps what bothers me the most is that he lightly FoS' me during the night phase. Alakaslam has seen me play before and should know that that is completely pointless at this stage. If he actually thinks that I am scum then he should of hit me with a solid case. I like to defend solid cases against myself, as it gives me a chance to examine the person who is attacking me. I do not like it when someone calls me scummy without providing good reasons, because it makes it difficult for me to get a read on my attacker. @Alakaslam Why do you think I am scum? Why do you think Xzavier is scum? | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
What is your read on me and why? | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
Do you still think that Onegu is scum? If so, has your reasoning changed at all? If not, why not? I dont mind if you answer now or include it in your end of night post. | ||
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Hurricane Sponge
868 Posts
On July 18 2013 04:18 Xzavier wrote: its like he just did his job of getting suspicion off him and removing himself from the lynch candidates then goes inactive, like it doesn't matter who gets lynched as long as it isnt him. Thats pretty scummy, suppose he pops in the last few hours, which honestly to me is at any point between now and the lynch, the closer to the lynch the worse. IMO this looks like a good way to wait until a bandwagon has formed on not him, then show up when its too late to form another candidate. and thats scummy as hell to me. and as far from pro-town you can get short of posting 100% spam. hes already posted so all he has to do is throw a last minute vote on the bandwagon, and then he is magically forgotten about again. and watch, now that he is being talked about he is in a "damned if you do, damned if you dont" because hes lurked for too long, and so he would appear once hes starting to be talked about again/deadline. Whatever he does at this point looks scummy, which is frustrating because unless he gets a rock solid case on somebody he is my top scumread. He is my lynch candidate. However gotard does look scummy, i see him as a serious lynch candidate, but who the fuck is running against him to die? Nobody? isnt that strange in and of itself. When there are mutliple scummy people in the game and only one of them is getting votes? shouldnt scum buddies be atleast SEMI-attempting to defend him? It seems to me like scum are okay with this lynch, and that is worrysome. there was no resistance to his case (basically) and i cant imagine people full-bussing when all they would have to do is ask/answer harmless questions and make pro-town moves to do it. i think lynching super helps us more, do you want super at LYLO? atleast gotard you can get reads off of because he posts. Having a hardcore lurker at LYLO is a horrible nightmare. On July 18 2013 07:37 Superfluous wrote: Hey guys sorry I've been missing, been sick the last few days and mafia hasn't really taken priority. Regardless I'm back and surprised that I am somehow not the main lynch target. I think Gotard is a good lynch and would like to honor kirby's last reads. That said I find it strange how no one is defending him too too much, though if he's maf it may just be that his teammates felt town would really push his lynch and they didn't want to defend him only for him to turn red. Other thoughts: Gut still says something's up with Xzavier, but with the revelation of sk it could be that and not necessarily maf. I agree with Onegu's case against Hurricane, though don't really have much to add to it. I realize it's kinda scummy to show up and just agree with the closest we have to proven but eh. I feel like Chroma has been playing completely differently day 2 than day 1. Now, maybe that's because he spent the first day defending me and had less to do today, but it feels weird how his main reason for defending me and calling me town was just to lynch kirby. Also keep in mind that while I think Maf killed Rainbows and not Koshi, Koshi WAS going really hard on Chroma for defending me. One line sticks out in my head, Koshi said that considering how hard Chroma was defending me it was almost as if he knew I was town. Something to keep in mind. I also feel like Umashi has done very little for town on day 2. Day 1 he was putting out pressure and trying to accomplish something, and it doesn't feel the same today. Now, he has ceded this roll to Onegu as he is pretty much confirmed yet hasn't done much himself. (Correct me if you feel I'm terribly wrong, this is just from skimming over and trying to post my thoughts before lynch). I also thought he was the obvious kill for mafia n1 if he was doing a good job of leading town. An interesting theoretical similarity I found. I already explained to Xzavier, but I'm surprised strong players like them didn't come to the same conclusion I did (re: the lurker/busser theory I developed). Not sure if scummy, or just a coincidence. | ||
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Hurricane Sponge
868 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On July 15 2013 07:55 Chromatically wrote: Wow, look at all the scum resistance to this Super lynch. Mafia may have observed that phenomenon and lightly tried to test those waters themselves (at sufficiently disparate intervals). | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
Can you elaborate on your read on Umasi at some point, please. From what I can see you had him go from town to scum mostly because he was not night-killed and stopped posting as much after day 1? Also because you did not expect town-Umasi to pressure you so much on day 2? Anything else? Also, you have been calling Xzavier scum since day 1. Can you make a fresh case on him? | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
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Xzavier
United States393 Posts
On July 19 2013 05:17 Xzavier wrote: I get off work in 2 hours. then ill do an info dump. well fuck, i was schuelded to get off at 6, then shit hit the fan and i stayed an extra 90 minutes to clean up the mess :/ On July 19 2013 05:38 Umasi wrote: I'm not sold on Xzavier either way, I've read him as town, but that might be bias from previous games. For whatever reason, he "feels" town and I'll leave it at that. One of these days though you'll have to have a day off Xzav, I expect great things from you that day :3 Tomorrow i get off "earlier" than normal, the bullshit that happened today wont happen two days in a row(i made sure of it) anyway tomorrow night ill be super active and youll see many a great thing. On July 19 2013 07:01 Hurricane Sponge wrote: EBWOP: The reason it sticks out to me is because Chrom used the same argument during the Day 1 lynch, and it managed to get the votes to swing to his target. + Show Spoiler + On July 15 2013 07:55 Chromatically wrote: Wow, look at all the scum resistance to this Super lynch. Mafia may have observed that phenomenon and lightly tried to test those waters themselves (at sufficiently disparate intervals). this makes me more scummy that chrom how? he did it day1? i did it day2? both of us were "wrong" or atleast didnt get our preferred lynch. On July 19 2013 06:52 hzflank wrote: @Xzavier What is your read on me and why? Overall Townish. of late your acting less pro-town. Not enough that i can call you mafia. but your Original content/findings seems to be lacking of late. if it keeps up im going to get worried. my townread on you is diminishing because of this. but at the moment your still town. from what iv seen we basically have 3(4) lynch candidates for tomorrow: Super, Alaka, Nightcat, (there was a case against sponge too, i dont like it but ill acknowldge it) and i dont think people were in love with onegu either. but i dont think he is going to be a lynch candidate for tomorrow. for me: (top is strongest read, bottom is weakest read) Town reads: Sponge Umasi Chrom Hzflank scum reads: Super Nightcat,alakazam onegu this was thrown together far quicker than i would have liked to make it, but i was held so late at work. ill elaborate more later tonight | ||
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Hurricane Sponge
868 Posts
My reads based on the Gotard flip: Xzavier's filter looks worst with the Gotard flip. He supports a Super lynch over a Gotard flip because: "atleast gotard you can get reads off of because he posts. Having a hardcore lurker at LYLO is a horrible nightmare." Not the most compelling argument ever, but I guess it's plausible as town. However, everyone else went hard after Gotard at some point, and after reading all the filters, Xzav's stuck out to me. Reading through it, both of his arguments were 'Yeah, gotard looks scummy, but here's a reason why he shouldn't be lynched: _________ ' Superfluous also seems scummy to me, which seems like a strange bedfellow for Xzavier. It's easy to pick on his post activity, but he also brings very little unique analysis to the table in his posts. There's still significant unnaccounted-for content in his filter (for example: I want him to respond to my question about what he was referencing during the Roleblock-ing conversation). Continuing the theme, my third scummiest read is Umasi (somewhat by PoE, but his Day 2 / Night 2 doesn't help). He also catches some heat from Superfluous, but his filter when you control-f 'Gotard' doesn't look great. A lot of soft defense followed by softer FoS. He also flatly resisted moving onto Gotard Day 1 (like Xzavier did) when I floated the idea of ambushing Gotard or Koshi when we had the votes to make it happen. Now, some of these reads seem incompatible with each other. It seems to pivot on Superfluous; both Xzavier and Umasi have targeted him with strong cases. But these three are what's left when I knock out the three guys I feel are 99.9% - 100.0% town, one who is probably Town (outside chance he's SK) but certainly not Mafia, and the other two who are fairly solidly Town by virtue of good activity levels and scumhunt-rich filters. I don't see the value in specifically revealing my town reads right now, but if you've been following the game, the map I outlined may make sense to you. YMMV. Let me know if you absolutely have to know if someone is in some tier or something. I don't see the harm or benefits in revealing this information unsolicited, however. One exception, because I feel it may surprise people who read my case on allah-kah-Slam: I do not suspect Alakaslam is scum. And neither should any of you, if'n -yous- were paying attention tonight. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On day 1, Umasi begins by focussing on Super and Nightcat, because they are lurking. He does not mention Gotard, although perhaps because Gotard had not yet posted at all. Umasi then votes for Super, until Chrom attacks Stim and then Umasi just follows Chrom onto Stim. Once people start to defend Stim and it looks like a wagon may not form, Umasi goes back onto Super. His reasoning seems to be that Super has very different reads to what he has. Umasi later just agrees with my reasons for lynching Super, and asks Rainbows to do the same. On July 14 2013 07:39 Umasi wrote: This this all of this. @ RAINBOWS You played in a game where Kirby got mislynched, what do you think of this? Do you think he's scummy or not? Are you still going to stick with Gotard when there are more compelling cases out there to be on? (At least, ones that I think are more compelling) Notice that he has happy for Rainbows to vote for Super or Kirby (because Chrom made a case on Kirby and Umasi is happy to sheep Chrom). However, Umasi seems to think that Rainbows should drop his case on Gotard and not try to push it any further. Then when I suggest that it does not yet have to be a two horse race, Umasi says that we should keep it between Kirby and Super. On July 14 2013 07:48 hzflank wrote: Let's not let Gotard off of the hook that easily. He still has not given us a firm scum read with reasoning behind it. On July 14 2013 07:51 Umasi wrote: that's not me letting him off the hook, that's me saying "superfluous or jrkirby" Umasi is not sure who he wants lynched, as long as the focus stays on Super and Kirby. On July 15 2013 04:02 Umasi wrote: hm~still not positive who I want dead more t.t (caught up now) Jrkirby, what do you think about the case on Superfluous? You've hardly mentioned him ever. Superfluous, same to you, what do you think about the case on Jrkirby? Please don't say something noncommittal like "oh third party probably herpaderp" We don't even know if there is a third party, I don't accept that as a read at this stage in the game On July 15 2013 04:04 Umasi wrote: Unfortunately I have no fucking clue what to make of Koshi, and it doesn't really matter atm because everyone falls behind Super and Kirby on the priority list maybe kinda scummy but I want to keep him around so he can spout phrases like that more often. On July 15 2013 07:37 Umasi wrote: Not finished reading, want to reply before I forget Yes, I accept that they are both absolutely acceptable lynch targets Ooh, I am totally wrong, Umasi is going to look at Gotard. I wonder if he will find Gotard scummy? On July 15 2013 07:54 Umasi wrote: so I'm going to go write a case on Gotard, I have no idea if it will return town or mafia I'm going to see what happens though, expect one soon. On July 15 2013 08:09 Umasi wrote: Not a very good list, doesn't explain much. I am not one to get angry over list posts, but whatever, some people hate it GUYS IT'S A LIST He jokes about xzav and I, presumably for wanting to lynch him early last game. He states he's confused, his scum reads don't think Stim is mafia, does not explain WHO his scum reads are, then goes along with the increasing consensus on StiM. These three posts, I really REALLY like these three posts by him. He's looking at the right things, even if he may or may not be correct (we have no idea if he was legitimately mad or just pretend flipping out) Like, at this point, I'm losing the motivation to talk about it at the time, because Superfluous and Kirby are just objectively scummier people. From his current posts, I don't think he's scummy enough to warrant a switch. I don't think he's too scummy at all, tbth He gives independent reasoning for his reads, and has good thought, he's just not posting very frequently Only 3 people should be moving their votes so that a third wagon is not possible? On July 15 2013 08:17 Umasi wrote: the tribunal is OUR GLORIOUS LEADER, Rainbows, and me Basically we will swap votes wherever to prevent no lynch shenaniganry. On July 15 2013 08:33 Umasi wrote: WHISPER WHISPER Gotard, I do not think, is the best lynch Koshi has said some good stuff, said some absolutely shit stuff, and is absolutely going to be incompetent as we get later in the game. I still think this is not town-town. On July 15 2013 08:48 Umasi wrote: btw last minute vote swaps SUCK just throwing that out there. don't get any ideas aside from the two candidates we have, we can look at others later Later, on day 2, Umasi immediately votesSuper without good reason. He only later votes for Gotard when the writing is on the wall. See my conversation with Umasi, starting here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=420227¤tpage=97#1927 | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JLxEitOl.jpg) Day 3 Creideiki nodded. "Quite right. Now, what would be the first type of reflection thought of by a human?" "The image of light from above," the mess chief, S'tat, answered promptly. "Most probably, though we all know that even some of the `big-ears' can eventually learn to hear." There was a general skree of laughter at the harmless little put-down of the patron race. The laughter was a measure of crew morale, and he weighed it as he might test the mass of a fuel cell by hefting it between his jaws. Creideiki noticed for the first time that Takkata-Jim and K'tha-Jon had swum up to join the group. Creideiki quashed a momentary concern. Takkata-Jim would have signaled if something had come up. He seemed to be here simply to listen. If this was a sign the vice-captain was ending his long, unexplained sulk, Creideiki was glad. He had kept Takkata-Jim aboard, instead of sending him out to accompany Orley and the rescue party, because he wanted to keep his exec under his scrutiny. He had reluctantly begun to think that the time might have come to make some changes in the chain of command. He waited for the snickering to die down. "Consider, now. How are a human's thoughts about these reflections from the surface of the water similar to our own?" The students assumed expressions of concentration. This would be the next-tolast problem. With so much repair work to oversee, Creideiki had been tempted to cancel the sessions altogether. But so many in the crew wanted desperately to learn Keneenk. At the beginning of the voyage almost all the fen had participated in the lectures, games, and athletic competitions that helped stave off spaceflight ennui. But since the frightening episode at the Shallow Cluster, when a dozen crewfen had been lost exploring the terrifying derelict fleet, some had begun to detach themselves from the community of the ship, to associate with their own little groups. Some even began exhibiting a strange atavism -- increasing difficulty with Anglic and the sort of concentrated thought needed by a spacer. Creideiki had been forced to juggle schedules to find replacements. He had given Takkata-Jim the task of finding jobs for the reverted ones. The task seemed to suit the vice-captain. With the aid of bosun K'tha-Jon he seemed to have found useful work for even the worst stricken. Hurricane Sponge as The Niss Machine is dead! hzflank as Tampered Library is dead! Welcome to Day 3! This Day ends in ~48 hours at Sunday, Jul 21 12:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) aka 00:00 GMT (+00:00). With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
Super There's not much to be said about Super, he needs to be lynched. He's done nothing all game, there's nothing that makes me think that he's town, he hasn't committed to anything, and he hasn't pushed a read at all. Even his most recent post is just lightly throwing shit on townies without actually saying anything. On July 14 2013 05:14 Superfluous wrote: Admittedly I am giving reads more to get off my back than to help us. I'm trying to get reads, but nothing is super strong so I'm not going to jump to lynch someone. I would vote for xzavier right now because he's my strongest read, but thats because we have to vote not because I feel he's 100% scum It really hurts us to lynch town day one, which is the same reason I brought up the idea of no lynching, and the same reason I'm trying to relieve pressure from myself. That said ##Vote Xzavier Because I'm going to a concert tonight and may be up late/ sleep in so I don't want to forget to vote. This stuff is not townie AT ALL. Some people are trying to argue that "scum would never say that" but they definitely will. It's easy for scum to say things like that because a) it's the truth and b) it looks honest to the thread. I did something similar in my first game. On July 15 2013 04:11 Superfluous wrote: I'll stick by my early read and say that jkirby is sporadic and unpredictable. He could be a liability late game as this play could easily be jumped on by mafia to make a case for him being scum. That said I do think he's town. The only thing that makes me suspicious of him is association; for instance how Koshi is trying to get a lynch on me going in alternative to him when in his post he says there is an equal chance we are scum. But no point in voting on pre-flip associations as someone previously said. This also doesn't make sense to say as town. He just said that he's not actually trying to figure out Kirby's alignment, he's just "sticking by his earlier read". He's concerned about consistency. On July 19 2013 03:25 Superfluous wrote: I know it's somewhat moot to point this out, but as I am town I believe #3 (fixed for you since you listed 2 twice lol) is the most likely scenario. Maybe Gotard wasn't that strong of a player, but that doesn't mean his mafia buddies couldn't tell him to give a town read on me in order to get me lynched. If he really thought he could live, the best way to do so would've been to convince town I was more scummy than he was, which he didn't even try to do. Now if we were both maf and one of us were definitely gonna get lynched it would make sense he wouldn't switch onto me. However as maf I would be furious he put me as town read/ told him not to do that. I'd also like to point out that both Umashi and Xzavier immediately voted for me on day 2, when the town as a whole seemed somewhat more inclined to vote for Gotard than for me, which we did. The way he tries to interpret the Gotard WIFOM is exactly what scum wants town to do. It should be obvious to any town (especially ones with prior mafia experience) that Gotard's posts right before his death are meaningless. Maybe this is what they were talking about in the scum QT before they told Gotard to post that? Super never mentions Gotard AT ALL before Gotard was already going to be lynched. He gave weak opinions on hz, Xzav, Umasi, me, Kirby, Sponge, Koshi, etc. but NEVER gives an opinion on Gotard. This is often what noob scum do to avoid giving an awkward opinion on their scumbuddies (I also did this in my first game). He then votes Gotard with 0 explanation. I cannot believe that Super is honestly looking for scum and calls out all of these people without ever even NOTICING Gotard. Gotard was one of the three people that jumped on the Kirby wagon and stayed there the entire time: On July 14 2013 08:22 Gotard wrote: Jrkirby looks like a better lynch than Superfluous right now. Why not Superfluous? He isn't afraid to share his strong reads. His posts aren't full of useless crap (Hello Rainbows!) even when he isn't 100% right which concerns me. More pro town that jrkirby in general feel. Why Jrkirby? I don't see him making pro town content. His post claiming that hzflank is mafia was awkward and then he defended himself saying that it was only a joke/pressure combo. Then posing useless lurker list (seems like every newbie game needs one). But as far as his interaction with stim goes I think you are overthinking it. ##vote: jrkirby. Not necessarily damning by itself, but pretty bad in combination with everything else. Super is scum, lynch him tomorrow. Onegu Onegu's cases are what originally tipped me off to him. Look at these cases on his TOP SCUMREADS at the time: [spoiler] On July 15 2013 19:11 Onegu wrote: First thing I have already said hurricane should not get town cred for that post, I would be MORE likely to post that as scum. The second part you are correct the first time, there is no way that post of chromes is a scum tell. I have already said I think super is bad town, I think you and hurricane are starting to make sure the lynch wagons stay on 2 town. Again keep wagons the same, but you are also ok with a no lynch? Same things with wagons, give control to choose to hurricane and tell others to sheep him. I just hate this, when someone asks give your points. Didnt you already say you were ok with sheeping this game, And again yes they should make thier own reads, but if they are voteing on something I feel strongly about it isnt my job to force them, if you feel the other wagon is correct its your job. Do you really believe this? If I am dead I cannot find scum, cannot vote for scum. If I am alive as VT and playing a strong game I possibly force a KP on me instead of someone they think is a blue. Just lol, besides being wrong, remember that whole thing about being a jackass Why do we want this to happen? What good comes from his claim here it is so much worse that he lived and scum would know he was blue. You just blamed kirby for being a marytr why are you voteing yourself? Wait didnt you have a scum read on him for a long time so it obv wasnt the entire game... Really no reads? You let them have power and told people to sheep them. Earlier you say dont sheep, now sheep, which is it? [QUOTE]On July 16 2013 20:02 Onegu wrote: [QUOTE]On July 13 2013 08:54 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Umasi, stop defending me. Don't defend people in general. It's more valuable to hear them defend themselves by tenfold. (Also, I don't want you handcuffing yourself to my ankle then flipping scum and having Town waste a bunch of time re-vetting me.) [QUOTE]On July 13 2013 08:48 jrkirby wrote: [QUOTE]On July 13 2013 08:47 Hurricane Sponge wrote: [QUOTE]On July 13 2013 08:46 jrkirby wrote: [QUOTE]On July 13 2013 08:42 Hurricane Sponge wrote: [QUOTE]On July 13 2013 08:33 Chromatically wrote: [QUOTE]On July 13 2013 08:03 Hurricane Sponge wrote: The following was written on the contingency I got Town in my PM. I generally don't like early Day 1 town conversations because it's 100% fluff and teasing and clouds the filters. Necessary evil? Perhaps. But let's try to kick this game into overdrive early, shall we? [/QUOTE] Why did you include this? Are you saying you wouldn't have posted this if you were scum? [/QUOTE] Correct. I would not have posted this particular post as scum.[/QUOTE] But you might have posted another post starting with the same line. Or maybe you did post that as scum. But you certainly would never have said: The following was written on the contingency I got Scum in my role PM.[/QUOTE] Hahaha! Very right you are, I hadn't thought of that. [/QUOTE] So then show us the post that you would have posted if you rolled scum, eh?[/QUOTE] This is a very reasonable request, but unfortunately I will not be posting it at this time for a couple reasons. First, it's not as impressive as the one I posted. Second, I intend to stay active in this community and will probably end up using a version of it at some point when (if?) I ever get that 'You Are Scum' PM. [/QUOTE] Why write this if you filp town, and we play in another game together and you post something similar but not as good I will tunnel you, and bring up this post. [QUOTE]On July 13 2013 15:39 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Just caught up on the thread for entertainment purposes: First thoughts: This fits StiM's playbook to a letter. The self-vote and martyring happened in XLII. Unfortunately, this happened while he was Town, so this doesn't really tell us anything. I like that there are other reasons for the votes (haven't done proper analysis yet), but I strongly encourage people to not interpret StiM on tilt as a scumtell. Going back now to read the entire train of thought in context now: Early on, StiM breaks down why he thought the kirby jokepost wasn't credible. (This elicits a big eyeroll, but is pretty benign albeit unnecessary). + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2013 09:25 StiMaDDict wrote: @Rainbow Also my read on jrkirby is null. This is a response to a request for elaboration from Rainbow. + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2013 07:41 jrkirby wrote: Ok. I've been studying this long and hard, and I think I have enough evidence to make a clear case. hzflank is scum Clearly, hzflank is lying about this compliment. Liars are always scum. And look who he's talking to: the scum coach. Obviously he's in league with them. He goes on, still talking to the scum: This is an obvious admission that he wants town to die. Anyone who wants town to die is scum, end of story. I will. Right here, right now. Pregame posts when people didn't even get their role pm are evidence to his case. Do I need to say more? Not sure where he is going with this one.. He hasn't even fucking got his role pm and he's joking around pregame. ok.. + Show Spoiler + And for his first post: He's trying to get us to sheep together and follow a Bandwagon instead of looking for evidence and finding scum. Finally: Trying to defend one of the scum who is planning to lurk. You can't ignore all this evidence guys. hzflank is scum. ##Vote: hzflank I am not trying to defend hzflank in any shape or form however I do not agree with jrkirby's "read" on hzflank's post and I do not think it was alignment indicative. Again I do not think this post point hzflank as a scum. Then comes the massive over-reaction: + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2013 09:25 StiMaDDict wrote: Another thing that is annoying the fuck out of me is that how Rainbow "interpreted" my post. This is what I wrote. Explanation: I find a pressure vote to be a strategy for some people. It works sometimes but not all the times. jrkirby's "case" really is not something of content to be honest. I assumed that it was pressure vote to get some discussions going. So that is what I said. As for the second sentence, his "case" is really fucking bullshit, so there are two possibilities. Either he is joking around or he suck at scumhunting. Now let's look at how Rainbow made me sound like. Scummy? Yes, I did give jkirby's post a reason but I didn't doubt it. If I had said it was a joke vote and he didn't seem to be a joker, your statement makes sense. I said pressure vote and nothing more. I didn't fucking say it was odd. Jesus, give me a break. I NEVER FUCKING SAID IT WAS SUSPICIOUS. Note to all: + Show Spoiler + btw, I'm really trying to stay active. Sometimes I write really slow and I might be answering something that is couple of pages back. Sometimes I write one liners. My bad. + Show Spoiler + If you don't like it, well fuck you I've read that post ten times, and can't really glean anything meaningful other than that StiM is in full-on turtle-up Defend Self At All Costs mode. Not necessarily a scumtell in a newbie game, I guess. I mean, who wants to die? Still, odd. Chromatically notes that one of these posts sits very oddly with him (I'd guess it's the second one), but StiM's next post is one defending me / going after Kirby: + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2013 09:30 StiMaDDict wrote: Seriously man.. this is the best you can do? If he has scum post, big deal. For all we know THIS could be his scum post. Who knows. Is this your first game jrkirby? So early in the game, I have felt pressure from Kirby and Chrom, while receiving unsolicited White Knighting from Umasi and StiM. (Side note: If there's some crazy mafia play floating around out there to chum up to me to make me look scummy after you guys flip Red, that's a losing strategy, boys.) Important post from hz regarding StiM flipping out while everyone else interpreted the jokepost as a joke: + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2013 09:58 hzflank wrote: The first thing to note is that Stim was unsure of whether Jrkirby's post was a joke or not. Stim reacted very different than everyone else did, but this could be because he viewed it as semi-serious while everyone else viewed it as a joke. After that Stim tries to defend himself. Again Stim's reaction seems odd at first, but normal if you consider that Stim thinks the original case was serious. Stim is posting in an aggressive manner but that is more of a personality tell than an alignment tell. I cannot help but be wish-washy here and conclude: I am eager to see more from Stim because I have absolutely no read on his alignment at this point. Immediately, the first thing I thought of was that there is no way in hell the scum QT would let him continue ranting and raving like this. They would have told him immediately to chill out and claim he was joking too, or something. Bolding because this is the first real revelation I've had on this case. If someone can provide a logical answer to the above, I'd appreciate it. Re: If StiM was Scum, would scum have really let him react this poorly and dig his own grave for this long? Moving on: Rainbow seems to be sheeping Chromatically's pressure on StiM a bit. + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2013 10:01 Rainbows wrote: And then someone else words it better than I can. Bravo. + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2013 10:03 Rainbows wrote: The reason I thought it scummy. It's hard to say how I thought about it, but then again I post rather sporadically with random thoughts. Finally getting to the part where StiM starts posting about whether or not he was mad. Chromatically seems to be leading this attack. StiM gets tripped up trying to explain whether he was mad or pretending to be mad. None of this comes of making StiM look good. + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2013 12:59 StiMaDDict wrote: Edit: If this is what you came up with, then gg wp. Not really motivating to play anymore really. .... and then he takes his ball and goes home. Color me baffled. Could be town (like I said, he has proven he's willing to vote himself and go on tilt really easily), but definitely could be scum panicking. Moreso, I'm offended by his implication that the onus is on US to keep HIM entertained and willing to play this game. Then Umasi joins the bandwagon: + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2013 13:06 Umasi wrote: Looking at it as stim is scum, it feels like he's trying to buddy him up as he has him read as a threat. This reads to me as trying to assuage a concern someone would have with it before someone talked about it. And seriously, why would you even bother doing that? It's not motivating to play because you don't have perma town cred? Expect people to think you're scum, or not guaranteed town. Like, why is it gg? If I remember you said Chrom was a solid scumhunter. It's actually up there in this post Don't omgus out of the fucking game, because that is not pro town, not defensible, and a surefire way to be lynched. And if you're town, that's obviously bad, because you're directly hurting town, wasting our time and not scumhunting. If you're scum, that's ALSO an awful idea, because you're just saccing yourself. Basically, rethink this and ignore what chrom has said about you and go contribute as much as you can in a protown way to turn opinions around, not just complain "I don't like people thinking I'm scum" You are now a priority to figure out over Superfluous, although I still am looking at Superfluous. ##UNVOTE ##VOTE StiMadDDict The first two 'reasons' reek of confirmation bias, and don't hold any weight for me. It could be construed as a scum Umasi hopping on a surefire bandwagon, but I have no confidence based on his earlier play that this poor play is inconsistent with a Town Umasi. Other valuable thoughts to avoid Quadposting: - I disagree with Superfluous' opinion on policy about No Lynch Day 1's, but the similarities to the Aqua - NN Claim issue is so striking I actually laughed aloud. My gut read was 'he's scum, day 1 lynch is the best play', but now I realize how the people pushing for Aqua's lynch Day 1 felt! - Umasi really rushed to my defense early and often which leaves me with a weird scummy feeling for some reason. Kirby and Chrom were pressuring me, but they weren't firing fastballs. I feel like I explained myself well, but Umasi's intrusion made the whole exchange way more combative than I felt it deserved. Right now, my nightmare is that Umasi flips scum, and people link him to me via these early exchanges, leading to my own mislynch. - Combining these two thoughts, Umasi then votes Superfluous for his 'scummy as crap' Day 1 No Lynch post (which I have explained in bullet point #1 I think is wrong, but not scummy). - People are being too hard on lurkers (especially people who posted at the game start and then disappeared). It's talk that doesn't move the game forward because it's a freaking Friday Night. Umasi's supporting 'evidence' (i.e. he's lurking) on Superfluous is what inspired this bulletpoint, pointed out nicely by hz: + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2013 09:42 hzflank wrote: I think Jrkirby's and Sponge's opening posts had the same motivation: to get discussion moving. Both have done this and we have multiple discussions taking place. Since then, Sponge did a little coaching. Sponge has come under pressure from multiple people (for his opening post), and has dealt with it while being reasonably open. The only time that he has not been open is by refusing to post the other version of his opening post. Sponge did a little coaching again as he tried to stop Umasi from defending him. So far my read on Sponge has moved very slightly towards town. Since his opening, Jrkirby has attacked Sponge for his opening post, and done nothing else. That's fine because it is early and Jrkirby is pushing to get a reaction from someone. This is not scummy to me, null read. Umasi has defended Hurricane, which cannot be viewed as scummy at this point. Umasi has attacked Superfluous. I would say that this attack could be scummy as it is based on nothing, but it could just be to get Super to post more (he only has one post). Umasi then repeats that he thinks Super's post is scummy and votes for him. The problem I have with this is that Umasi claims Super's only post was scummy, when I do not think that it was. If Umasi was looking for a reaction then I do not understand why he posted: How was Super's post scummy as crap? I do not think that Umasi is looking for scum, and if he is not just fishing for Super to respond then I think that Umasi is just looking for a neutral place to put his early vote. Unlike Jrkirby's, Umasi's vote is not a troll vote. I have a slight scum read on Umasi. + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2013 10:56 Umasi wrote: He came in, emphasized his newness to the game, and it felt like he was giving excuses for not posting, not reasons. (I realize that they're extremely similar, but I think it's a matter of tone) the timing he came in at (right when we brought up lurkers) to be like "I'm trying not to lurk" is just kind of......weird? I think it's out of place and scummy. Unlike hz, however, I think these are just bad reads and bad play. Could be scum, of course, but it could equally likely be town. Still some good content, on my radar, and I'm glad hz pointed it out. Chromatically chimes in later with a post on Superfluous saying he has tried to not 'rock the boat' (which is exactly what he did with the No Lynch position he took): + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2013 10:59 Chromatically wrote: Superfluous looks really bad, he's been apologetic in his posts (not trying to rock the boat) and has only said what others have already said. It looks like he's trying hard to find anything to post about because he wants to look active. It's extremely odd that he specifically points out Cloud-9 as opposed to any of the other players who haven't posted. This shows pretty clearly that he's not trying at all to find scum, he doesn't even know who hasn't posted. Also looking at Kirby. Lurkers be lurking. Yet more Superfluous pressure from Umasi.... the tunnel is on?: + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2013 11:02 Umasi wrote: The difference here, is that he's ...... like hard to articulate. He is lurking, and pops in to post a comment at such a WEIRD time like, immediately when the conversation mentions lurkers compared to otherwise contributing thoughts. I think Super is the best choice atm, but I'm by no means positive. Just hit this post by Superfluous that set off real scumbells for me: + Show Spoiler + On July 13 2013 12:24 Superfluous wrote: As I said I just skimmed over after returning. Cloud 9 was a name I didn't see when comparing the posts I saw to the player list, so I pointed it out. And I have been trying to get something to talk about other than what seem to be mini discussions between certain people. I also don't get why you're attacking me saying "I'm not trying to find scum". In my own post I said that I was going to look it over again and get reads, obviously meaning that I hadn't looked that hard for scum yet. Right now my biggest scum read is HZflank, because I still think Umasi is doing mostly pro town moves yet hz says its scummy. If it pushes to me actually being lynched I think that I'd still feel this way. He also had an early post or two that distracted somewhat from the discussion, which I'm always suspicious of. I'll give nightcat benefit of the doubt. It's a bit weird he showed up once his name came up but eh. I realize thats not really a great reason but seems like we're in semi-similar situations. Xzavier I'm more suspicious of, he didnt have many posts then in his first one he shows up saying he'll consider lynching me. It's really scummy play to lurk then show up ready to lynch imo. I completely disagree with many significant points on this post (thinking Xzavier's post is scummy, finding one lurker scummier than the other, deciding Umasi is town because he's tunneling someone). It almost seems like he's OMGUS'ing hz because of the pressure on Umasi? Seems like a viable scumbuddy tactic: Call out in the QT for someone to defend you so you don't have to get into a shitfight yourself. @Chrom: Can you explain what this post means? [QUOTE]On July 13 2013 13:23 Chromatically wrote: If everyone who just randomly popped out to soft call me sum could actually give their opinions on the situation, that'd be great. [/QUOTE] I also have a nitpick with this post: [QUOTE]On July 13 2013 14:04 Chromatically wrote: Yes, we'll technically never be able to totally disprove the possibility that Stim is town. It's just far less likely. Look at what Stim has done. Lie about his anger Town motivation: none Scum motivation: screwed up the explanation because the anger was faked in the first place Martyr Town motivation: none, far more likely that he just explains Scum motivation: knows he can't explain, so he acts emotional to get people to switch[/QUOTE] I feel like the anger was definitely real, and StiM was trying play play Mr. Cool Cat by claiming that he was really in control the whole time, and just pretended to be angry. Still not clear what that motivation could have been, but the above 2x2 leaves out some key points and I feel you're making a bit more assumptions that you usually do... [/QUOTE] Ok this is a long one and hurricane makes a few incorrect leaps in logic. First in NMM XLII yes stim self voted, but day 3 under zero pressure. He was under alot of pressure here when he self voted. Then your bolded first real revelation, unless you are in scum qt you dont know who or what is said in scum qt so trying to saythey wouldnt let him do something is just wrong, first scum game for me we had a modkill lurker and a regular lurker so there wasnt anyone to discuss things with. Also why defend stim? Why not let him defend himself like you advocate? [QUOTE]On July 13 2013 16:29 Hurricane Sponge wrote: [QUOTE]On July 13 2013 16:02 Umasi wrote: Alright, here, hurricane. Who do you think is worth voting at this time? From your post, I got the gist that it'd be Superfluous or me. Is that correct?[/QUOTE] I'm still a bit mad at StiM for his post implying that it was our job to keep him entertained. I'm going to give myself some time to cool off on that, because I don't appreciate people quitting on my team (if he is in fact town). This is a time investment for everybody, and it's damn selfish of him to pack up his ball and go home after really light pressure. Townville: Kirby pressured me appropriately after my opener. I like that. He also seems to have the same attitude as me regarding the quick StiMwagon: [QUOTE]On July 13 2013 13:31 jrkirby wrote: 2 votes land on a guy is quick succession, I'd be stupid if I weren't at least a BIT suspicious. As far as I can tell, stim is just acting like a bit of an idiot, is flustered, and frustrated. Doesn't seem like scumtell to me. You're free to have your vote, and I don't have a solid scumread on either of you, but I will be looking a bit more closely at your filters.[/QUOTE] hz is aggressively posting reads and seems to emulate my thoughts on the early Superfluous post: [QUOTE]On July 13 2013 09:42 hzflank wrote: I think Jrkirby's and Sponge's opening posts had the same motivation: to get discussion moving. Both have done this and we have multiple discussions taking place. Since then, Sponge did a little coaching. Sponge has come under pressure from multiple people (for his opening post), and has dealt with it while being reasonably open. The only time that he has not been open is by refusing to post the other version of his opening post. Sponge did a little coaching again as he tried to stop Umasi from defending him. So far my read on Sponge has moved very slightly towards town. Since his opening, Jrkirby has attacked Sponge for his opening post, and done nothing else. That's fine because it is early and Jrkirby is pushing to get a reaction from someone. This is not scummy to me, null read. Umasi has defended Hurricane, which cannot be viewed as scummy at this point. Umasi has attacked Superfluous. I would say that this attack could be scummy as it is based on nothing, but it could just be to get Super to post more (he only has one post). Umasi then repeats that he thinks Super's post is scummy and votes for him. The problem I have with this is that Umasi claims Super's only post was scummy, when I do not think that it was. [QUOTE]On July 13 2013 08:33 Superfluous wrote: While I agree that we should lynch someone if they are super scummy, I'd like to point out that voting for no lynch is an option. Assuming I'm interpreting the rules/setup right, mafia only has 1 kp so there's no immediate motive for lynching such as reducing kp. It may be a stronger play to not lynch and hope that cop(if there is one) gets a turn to check before lynch. It is a risk though because I believe we are not guaranteed to have a cop. Just an idea I wanted to throw out and get your guys' thoughts on.[/QUOTE] If Umasi was looking for a reaction then I do not understand why he posted: [QUOTE]On July 13 2013 08:59 Umasi wrote: Where the hell are you. You popped in, gave a single post, that I think is scummy as crap, still haven't show back up. Pretty confusing, because the post you gave was irrelevant.[/QUOTE] How was Super's post scummy as crap? I do not think that Umasi is looking for scum, and if he is not just fishing for Super to respond then I think that Umasi is just looking for a neutral place to put his early vote. Unlike Jrkirby's, Umasi's vote is not a troll vote. I have a slight scum read on Umasi.[/QUOTE] Xzavier posted some decent thoughts (although he really didn't go out on any limbs): [QUOTE]On July 13 2013 11:19 Xzavier wrote: [QUOTE]On July 13 2013 08:33 Superfluous wrote: While I agree that we should lynch someone if they are super scummy, I'd like to point out that voting for no lynch is an option. Assuming I'm interpreting the rules/setup right, mafia only has 1 kp so there's no immediate motive for lynching such as reducing kp. It may be a stronger play to not lynch and hope that cop(if there is one) gets a turn to check before lynch. It is a risk though because I believe we are not guaranteed to have a cop. Just an idea I wanted to throw out and get your guys' thoughts on.[/QUOTE] i know usami has touched on this, but i see voting for No-lynch is like sacrificing a townie or playing russian roullet for zero prize money. its just basically saying "i want to start this game a townie down" it seems silly to me, if somebody comes and gives me an ungodly reason for no-lynching ill hear it. but i see it as silly. Also from playing with usami before, hes a super fucking hyper aggressive person who needs like a single post to tunnel somebody for a full day, that can be bad. we need to keep our eyes open and looking at multiple people. As i learned my first game, a tunnel vision day1 can lead to a mislynch, or in this gametype, a no-lynch. Its far better to lynch scum, and thats what we should try to do. Even day1 we lynch either a lurker or our top scumread, if nobody has any strong scumreads, lynching the scummiest lurker is the best townplay day1. (it yields the highest chance of killing scum while creating the best pro-town enviroment) with that im also shocked of how active stim-addict is being. its nice to see a usual lurker picking it up leaving less for the scum to hide behind :D again, even Superfluous is at the top of my scumdar, he isnt high enough to deserve a vote yet. I want to lynch a lurker or superfluous depending on how he reacts to our posts and the events of the day. if the rest of it goes uneventful/no major scumslips i want to fuck up a lurker as i believe that to be the best pro-town action.[/QUOTE] Rainbows is active and is claiming credit for the StiM wagon. If StiM is town, as I suspect, I don't think scum would be claiming lead on an eventual green flip: | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
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