Basterd Mini Mafia

On June 30 2013 13:32 s0Lstice wrote:
Oats, your reason for thinking it's not scummy is that he didn't actually call Rayn scum?

I'd argue that the implication that Rayn had access to information that he shouldn't have is just about the same thing.

On June 30 2013 14:01 WaveofShadow wrote:

Oh I assumed the reason you thoughts Stutters wasn't scummy was the same argument for what you thought Rayn WAS scummy for.

You're referring more to the finding marv instant townie thing, huh?
I get what you're saying, but as scum throwing out a super-strong townread right off the bat just doesn't seem like a smart play.

On June 30 2013 14:08 WaveofShadow wrote:

So?
Neither do I.
And besides town marv wouldn't fall for something so basic.

RIGHT MARV?

On June 30 2013 14:10 s0Lstice wrote:
Oats, the implication to me was pretty clear. Asking someone if they know something we(town) don't is a suggestion that they aren't town. When have you ever seen this question mean something else?

On June 30 2013 20:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why does me giving a townread to marv make me scum? Is it impossible for me to have this thought process i have already explained as town, and if so, why?

someone was dumb enough to fakeclaim after marv we had a 50% chance to right out catch them by having them post the role PM first.

On June 30 2013 20:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oats why would i insta-call marv town as scum? Why would i do so?

On June 30 2013 21:00 Vivax wrote:
Apologies, mistook that for another defense of marv's claim (Interpreted it as: Marv would have had a 50 % chance of getting counterclaimed and dying).

That doesn't change the fact that marv did the same thing as scum in another game, and as Oats pointed out, in all of this you keep assuming that marv is town. He did the same 17 minutes into the game in the other game.

On June 30 2013 21:47 Vivax wrote:


If Rayn is scum marv is likely town imo.

This exudates so much confidence into marv being town that I don't see it coming from scum about scum.

With that said though his reaction and thought process makes him the towniest motherfucker here. Especially after themed, I really doubt he'd be scum.

On June 30 2013 23:30 Stutters695 wrote:
Part of my reason I see him as town is how aggressive and out there he is compared to Themed. I hadn't thought about it with how Vivax explains it though, that's a really good point. I don't know though his case against me felt genuine. I'll reread.

I would like to hear his contradiction on WoS though.

On July 01 2013 01:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Again, what there is for me to gain as mafia to give marv an insta-town read?
I happen to know, and knew from the beginning, there would be people who disagree with me. What do i gain by doing so? Because it does not mean shit that i might look town in marv's eyes, there are many other people whose votes count just as much as his.

I have a strong town read on marv, i was hoping someone would be stupid enough to fakeclaim miller, and added some fuel into fire by saying "there are no 2 millers", because i know that's possible, but highly unlike. If scum had claimed miller i would have laughed and then we would go to the "claim your role name phase".

Fakeclaiming miller does mean unnecessary attention to yourself, in a situation where the attention is not needed. Marv has done it before, yes, and looking into that game it was a big mistake. Scum lost and it did not definitely help him/them. I think he has learned from that and would not do so again.

I'm not the right person to answer about marv's thought process but that's how i see the situation.

Marv has done it before, yes, and looking into that game it was a big mistake.

On May 13 2013 04:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I mean it's not optimal to claim miller if you don't know the exact number of delf-aware millers. What Hiro said, it only allows mafia to get away with claiming it right in the beginning. If you are town you should never be checked by a cop.

- It makes no sense to fake claim miller.

On July 01 2013 02:46 Stutters695 wrote:
This is why I thought he was town.

The miller stuff is eh (a lot more damming now with Vivax's post however). Like it isn't an unreasonable assumption and his reaction to my "scummiest post in the thread" was almost exactly how I'd react. I'd expect scum to be much more concerned with justifying their stance immediately rather than just laugh it off and not elaborate until pressure is on them. I reacted almost identically to an accusation from vivax in roulette that I felt was ridiculous.

In addition to that, he's one of the most active players.

I can pull specifics if you want but that's the rundown.

On July 01 2013 04:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oats if you by some miracle get me lynched i will laugh at you so hard post game when marv dies N1 and you just lost, not only your whole D1 in analysis and two townies that are amongst the strongest players here.

On July 01 2013 04:14 Lazermonkey wrote:
Lol
WAT
WAT
WAT
WAT
WAT

Seriously? Are you kidding me? or what? Lol? I didn't say marv was confirmed town, did I? I was the guy who stayed up all night to argue with Rayn why Marv WASN'T confirmed mafia.

You may discuss anything you like except for Rayn. The discussion isn't very productive atm I'd say. You have made you opinion very very very clear. So has Rayn. If you really think he is scum there really is no reason for you to keep on arguing with him, is it? you don't need to convince him of being scum himself... With that said, I'd love you to give your opinions on Vayle and Stutters!

On June 30 2013 07:25 Lazermonkey wrote:
Regarding the the possibilties of there being two millers in the setup.

First off, I'm going to make the assumption that there are only three scum in this game. Secondly, looking at the roles in possible for scum you can see that the only one power role in our beloved friend Adolf "the roleblocker." Hitler. Now, assuming there is only 1 Hitler (which I don't think is a very bold assumption) the most powerfull scum team is in theory goon x2 + GF, a relativly weak team. Having two millers vs this team, even without additional blue roles, honestly seems kinda OP as you would either get into a postion with 2 modconfirmed townies D1 or a group of 3 people where you know for sure that one is scum. So, once again assuming (-.-)that the game is fairly balanced I don't think there are two millers.

And the conclusion you should draw from this is that Marvs claim probably means he is town.

The fact that he is very fast to doubt Marv's claim yet does not take a clear stance, the fact that he said that his french is rusty instead of just translating the sentence and the fact that he asks why his own posts are bad and then goes on to afk is rubbing me in a bad way.

Look at how much time he has spent on Marv's miller claim. You know how to deal with a miller claim? You ignore it. All it means is don't DT check the person and that's it. Figure out their alignment just like you would anybody else. The fact that he goes on and on about it looks to me not like he is trying to get at Marv's alignment, but rather he is feeling comfortable talking about a very safe topic in preference to anything of consequence. When he made this quote:

On July 01 2013 05:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oats you need to explain this to me.
You say that you will be looking to WoS if i would flip town. So you think i am right about WoS. Why the fuck do you want to lynch me first if you think either 1) i am right or 2) i am bussing him.

You are making no sense now.

Also you need to explain how solstice is scummy and how JarJar looks good.

On July 01 2013 05:16 gumshoe wrote:


A) buddying

B) Not throwing around concrete threats but definitely alot of shiit.

C) Severely flip floppy.

D) doesn't contribute anything really.

E) recycles others opinions.

F) Attacks people who are actively contributing, thereby attacking discussion itself.

All this in just three posts, it's remarkable really. How can you defend this guy just because he agrees with you? In fact if I was you(and was actually town) I would revaluate my opinion on Rayne just because THIS guy supports it.

I'll look at Vayne next, but I'm pretty set on Jar Jar seeing as hes far far worst than Stutters whose principal offence in my eyes was just timing based / :

On July 01 2013 06:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax, i'll comment on your case:
- I did think about the setup before the game started and decided what would be best for the town and best for the scum regarding miller claims (as that's pretty much all you can do beforehand).

On July 01 2013 07:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oats i don't want to talk with you until you stop acting like a complete idiot.

It's already been established that theyre's pretty much a 60 percent risk factor in him being called out, yet that hasn't happened (though everyones still waiting on you to reveal your pm Marv T_T) which means Marv is already more likely town than the rest of us (who are 50/50) though not town for sure of course. But whats so scummy instead of neutral about backing those odds albiet aggressively?

his reaction to my "scummiest post in the thread" was almost exactly how I'd react. I'd expect scum to be much more concerned with justifying their stance immediately rather than just laugh it off and not elaborate until pressure is on them.

On July 01 2013 10:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oats you are really bad. Like really really bad. Now i know why people want to policy lynch you, you fail to understand simple things and it's pain in the ass to argue with you. You are voting me because "i know" marv is town. I call people i think are town town and unless something new information comes up treat them as town. That does not make me scum and you should know it. I use reactions to my posts in forming reads on other people and i have explained why i have said what i have said. If you are unable to see that i'm done talking with you because you won't understand anything any way, so it's a waste of time.

On July 01 2013 10:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
BECAUSE THE FUCKING CARNIVAL MILLER CLAIM SITUATION DIFFERS 100% FROM THIS GAME! I HAVE ALREADY EXPLAINED WHY!!!!

I'm mad because you are so ridiculously dumb. I'm kinda sad i do think you are town because i could find 101010010 reasons to "why you are scum" if i was mafia but they do not actually make you scum and i don't want to lynch townies, even policy lynch.

On July 01 2013 11:38 gumshoe wrote:


Really? At this point it's had more support at one point than another than any other lynch. In fact it was definitely up there as most likely before I pointed out Jar Jar. I view it as an easy lynch over meh reasons, and proper scum lynches are never easy.

On July 01 2013 13:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Can i devote the rest of the game telling how Oats is scum because he knows JJD is town and nothing he ever says after this can change it?

On July 01 2013 17:00 Lazermonkey wrote:

For the love of god, don't kill Rayn. His posting has been extremly towie recently!

On July 02 2013 08:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oats i dropped my scumread on Vivax way before marv apperared.
Thoughts on the lynch and happenings there?

On July 01 2013 02:11 Oatsmaster wrote:
OH OH RAYN, OATS RAYN.
WHERE YOU GO MAN?
TALKING ABOUT IT WITH YOUR SCUMBUDDIES???????

On July 02 2013 15:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oats answer the question:

Oatsmaster:
If Oats was scum he would also be in deep shit in case i flip, i don't think he would even think he could handle it as the tunnel is so absurd and stupid. Sad, but this has to be bad!town!Oats

On July 01 2013 21:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Now i know i have too much scumreads. Everyone fits in as scum with everyone in those people (i count out marv atm), i don't want to lynch Vivax because he does not look the worst and there is a slight possibility that he is town. We also do not work well together at least on D1.

I keep my vote on JarJar, but i challenge all of you to question WoS/JarJar/fuba, i'm pretty confident there is at least 2 scum in them.

On July 02 2013 15:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:

No i can't. I need to reread a lot before telling that. Everybody i have been looking into this game is pretty much town besides Fuba, and even him seems somewhat town.

On July 02 2013 15:48 Oatsmaster wrote:
guys guys



I see.
If this doesnt wanna make you lynch rayn, nothing will.

Further I don't like how his vote was parked uselessly on JarJar at the end of the day (despite saying he was going to remove it as well).

On July 02 2013 22:48 marvellosity wrote:


Not true of any competent townie I know of.

On July 03 2013 00:09 WaveofShadow wrote:
Hai guise, I back.
Oats why do you think marv is scum?
I also disagree with this.

On July 03 2013 09:27 marvellosity wrote:
If town can't follow basic logic they don't deserve to be convinced.

On July 03 2013 09:28 marvellosity wrote:
Who cares if they did? How is it relevant?

On July 03 2013 09:28 WaveofShadow wrote:

Vivax were you notified of your hit?

On July 03 2013 09:37 marvellosity wrote:


are you on drugs or something? how is that a good risk/reward? how is it even TRUE given we're having this stupid conversation?

I already explained fully why I did it in NMMIV, and the probabilities in this case are wildly different (which I'd know if I was scum and thought about it)

On July 03 2013 10:02 WaveofShadow wrote:

This actually seems like a good idea bt it's going to be hard for me to ignore what's going on with the blues currently.
Lazer scummy, gumshoe going balls to the walls on me simply because I was the last blue to claim (even though I fucking told the thread exactly when I'd be back), and Vivax mysteriously disappearing all of a sudden when I come back.

On July 03 2013 10:20 gumshoe wrote:


Well I didnt pick up on it, care to ask if anyone else did? In fact.

Did anyone here WOS was blue? If you were scum would you role block him? Why?

On July 03 2013 10:23 gumshoe wrote:


So WOS happened to blue slip somewhere, get role blocked despite two open blues being in play (me and Lazer) then manage to claim the very last blue spot? Again why am I a better lynch?

So the one hand we have the guy who claims and gets blocked, both out of nowhere, and has explanations.

On July 03 2013 10:41 gumshoe wrote:


Yes. You were wrong, arrogant and blind before. And yet your acting the same way now. Your either not playing your best game or your scum and Im done trying to explain 1 plus 1 to you.

On July 03 2013 10:45 gumshoe wrote:


Until Fuba comments it's me or him(unless he doesnt, in which case him). And if its me it's also him and then I hope it's you.

On July 03 2013 11:42 gumshoe wrote:


The scum have two kp and all the blues are outed, at this point all they need to do is survive the day and it's effectively gg. They're only agenda is survival. I am not looking through claims, I am pointing out that one of us blues is scum and WOS is the most suspicious. I am the second, lynch me or him and you will find scum either way. Vivax is blue 100 percent, if you cant convince me Lazer is more suspicious than me or WOS than thats that. Try and steer me away and your pretty much just a hypocrite, nobody tunnels as hard as you. The difference is I know for a fact either Lazer or WOS (or hell, both) is scum. If you suspect me more than them than go ahead and lynch me.

On July 03 2013 11:50 gumshoe wrote:


4 blues? WOS himself called bull on that. Also stop trying to assuage me, I'm supposed to be channeling you.

On July 03 2013 12:14 gumshoe wrote:


No, Wos knows cause WOS is scum. And no I'm not sure that they'res not more blues than they're are scum and that all blue roles are in play. After all They're is a thin line between knowing and thinking, still, vote WOS : P.

The idea that they're are four blues coupled with the idea that the role called last coupled with the farfetched notion that mafia role blocked him(randomly essentially, he said it himself, he wasn't trying to play blue) also WOS was immediately of the opinion that one of the blues was fake.

Ok so ifWoS is scum, and the scumteam decided to withhold their RB and for WoS to claim last

Ok so WoS is scum, and the scumteam decided to withhold their RB and for WoS to claim last. The reason why this is not really what I wouldve done as scum is because its obvious you are vengeful townie, and its obvious after the blocked KP that there is a vet. So vig is an easy claim. So therefore, the fact that WoS claimed last has nothing to do with his alignment.

he took a totally unexplainable shot at me last night when I don't think he's anywhere near that terrible. It's very simple.

On July 03 2013 23:02 Lazermonkey wrote:
EBWOP: Lol, I meant to say that I can't do anything with my check D1 so random RB doesn't actually seem to bad especially if iGrok doesn't inform you if you are getting RBed or not. That was quite the opposite of what I just said XD

On July 03 2013 23:06 marvellosity wrote:


why does it even matter? you understand perfectly well what i was saying, you're just being ridiculous.

On July 03 2013 20:11 marvellosity wrote:
WoS is scum because he passively encouraged rayn in his dumb crusade, he repeatedly flung shit at me without explaining it, and then he took a totally unexplainable shot at me last night when I don't think he's anywhere near that terrible. It's very simple.

On July 03 2013 23:09 marvellosity wrote:


WHY DOES IT MATTER. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU

On July 03 2013 23:11 marvellosity wrote:
only if you read it like a total idiot who doesn't understand what it's saying even though it's 100% obvious

i can't legislate for rank stupidity

On July 03 2013 23:17 marvellosity wrote:
why are you asking me a question you can work out/verify yourself?

do your own work.

Oats, is the sky blue today?
Are there cars in the car park?
Is your name Oatsmaster?
Would you count these grains of rice for me please?
Are there mafia in this game?
Do the tides come in an out, could you check for me please?

Sorry for getting back so late, but it looks like a lot of you figured out my role already. I'm Hans Landa - German Survivor Jailkeeper. No jail last night, since it really didn't look like I was going to be NK'd, and after that shitstorm with marv/rayn/lazer/etc there were likely better vigi shots. If WoS is telling the truth, then it looks like scum has a roleblocker and saw him as possibly blue. If he's lying, then... he's scum.

To make up for the Vayne lynch a bit (that came way too close for me :S), I'll offer that I, at least, didn't get a fake claim. It feels like if scum had been given fake claims, then I would have gotten one, since this setup makes massclaims really likely, and it feels like it's gonna be really hard to walk that line between town and scum.

On July 04 2013 13:20 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Wave, please clear this up. Did you get your fakeclaim during the pause or did you get them after I claimed and the town started talking mass claim?

And again, as I explained above, I play every game as a survivor that only wins if town wins. Survivor isn't all that much harder for me than town. I just had an extra power that I didn't end up using and would show up as german to cop checks.

On July 04 2013 13:40 WaveofShadow wrote:
Oh fuba you cutie.
<3 Let's be on the same team next time, k? Also tell your scumbuddies they're jerks for making me claim.
Actually everyone in this game is a jerk for making me claim.

On July 04 2013 13:43 WaveofShadow wrote:

I had to
I dunno call me paranoid but I don't really see how simply claiming Landa in the first place would have helped me. It would have painted a massive target on my back for scum since I would have been forced to help town.

On July 04 2013 13:45 WaveofShadow wrote:

Oh shits why didn't I think of that
Oats #1 mafia playar

On July 04 2013 14:04 WaveofShadow wrote:

Oats I don't think I've ever seen you play so...level-headedly?
I think that's a pretty good point.

Can I ask you something randomly? I seem to remember you defending me pretty hard when I first claimed. Why were you so sure of me at the time?

On July 04 2013 13:52 mkfuba07 wrote:

How is it bullshit?

And what would make me happy about it, other than being confirmed if he flips first? It's not like town needs to win for me to win the game, I need to live. His fakeclaim has pretty much reduced my chances of winning by 50%.

On July 04 2013 14:33 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Ok, so here's the deal. I think Wave messed up the timeframes and thought that the pause happened AFTER the whole mass roleclaim discussion. He's making shit up now about not remembering timestamps and being told that he's not allowed to discuss it but check this out:Why would he be "absolutely fucked"? The roleclaim discussion happened AFTER the pause in the game. Which means he must have his role already.

SO I ask him when he got his role:
He's trying to retcon what he said right here. He starts talking about timestamps and says oh he was probably wrong. How could he have been wrong? Did he somehow imagine the feeling of being "absolutely fucked" when people were talking about roleclaims?

WoS is absolutely scum. No doubt about it.

On July 04 2013 16:12 mkfuba07 wrote:

I don't even know what that means. You don't even have another survivor game to compare this one to.

And yeah, I KNOW IT. You know who doesn't know it? Everyone else in the game. As it turns out, that's who matters. Fact remains, the thing that made me KNOW IT is the reason I'm up for lynch today. It's the reason I might lose the game, so why would that make me happy?

On July 04 2013 20:09 marvellosity wrote:


Because there's one important thing to do today, and that thing isn't name the entire scumteam.

I flicked through your filter and didn't see you doing so either. What gives, El Hypocritico? ^_^

On July 04 2013 20:38 marvellosity wrote:
Last time you used this kinda hypocritical defence about your laziness in a game with me you were mafia (Ego). Not interested in conversing with you if you're going to behave like this. Well, I am interested in a make-me-doubt-you're-town sort of way.

Still musing on this fakeclaim business.

Why on earth would Survivor be given Vigilante of all roles as a fake-claim? It's the only blue role with demonstrable, provable results. gumshoe? anyone? Then again why would mafia. arg.

On July 04 2013 19:12 marvellosity wrote:
Like there are 12 townie roles, and 12 total players in the game. I think iGrok would have foreseen that if mafia have no idea what to claim at any point, then a massclaim looks really really tough on mafia. Also, look at... the Active Games thread? iGrok was contemplating using this as an open setup, but decided against this.

What does an open setup mean? It means that mafia (and town alike) would know what roles existed. So in this game as we have it, I think that mafia knew what roles existed in the game, and were thus given a safe, fakeclaim each, and the Survivor got one too, to make 12=12.

I'm aware this is speculation, but this is what makes the most sense to me.

On July 04 2013 23:16 JarJarDrinks wrote:
@Gumshoe, answer me this:

Why do you think WoS said that he felt absolutely fucked?

On July 05 2013 00:16 marvellosity wrote:


Lying isn't the same as lying about what hosts told you. In my opinion at least.

On July 05 2013 00:26 JarJarDrinks wrote:
This has been my point from the getgo. He totally 180ed on that and started talking about not remembering and missing timestamps.

On July 05 2013 01:15 Vivax wrote:


Fuba didn't know if WoS was fakeclaiming, whether he's lying or not.

On July 05 2013 01:24 Vivax wrote:


If you're survivor and the guy before you fakeclaims vigi, you don't know if he's vigi or scum.
But if you're survivor and the guy fakeclaims survivor, you know he's scum.

On July 05 2013 01:33 Vivax wrote:


Who cares. I didn't see the part WoS wrote anyway, and I already posted all I had to post to bring my point across.
Tell me why you think which one of them is more likely if you want.