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Let's play a game... |
Firstly, H3 I am still waiting for a response:
On June 08 2013 19:52 TheDavison wrote:
Hurndall3, what I want to know are two simple things.
(1) Why do you feel compelled to answer on behalf of Eccleston constantly?
Your last 2 pages of filter are regurgitating "Eccle is town", and not producing cases for scum.
(2) Why is early game aggression indicative of "leaning town".
On June 09 2013 01:48 Hurndall3 wrote:
TD you are tunneled on Ecc right now. It happens to all of us. You need to step back and realize that your case against Ecc isn't good.
The logic is not conclusive.
And you are not tunneled?
All I have seen from you is Eccleston is town. Where is your "profound logic" for determining scum?
At this pivotal point in time, I am not voting for your scum target simply "because you say so". Produce proof and I will consider with open eyes.
On June 09 2013 01:48 Hurndall3 wrote:
I would characterize his response as quite aggressive actually. it doesn't look like how scum would talk to each other.
Right? Is this how you try and dispute the case(s) on Eccleston, by treating each point as stand alone? The entire concept was not whether he spoke to Eccleston aggressively. It was that it was significantly more reserved compared to Baker. It was written very clear cut, and even specified to refer to Exhibit A, yet here, you forget all this.
Regardless, your post is irritating and condescending. The whole point of my case with Eccleston is looking at the big picture. I have written several solid points, and you decide to meekly refute it all by saying "the logic is not conclusive".
Thats bullshit.
If you think the case is wrong and I am tunneled; respect the effort I have put in and break it down point by point; or let Eccle defend himself.
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On May 31 2013 05:00 HartnellWill wrote:
##Vote DrTennant. Other than skimming the thread, Tennant's filter is surprisingly empty of anything that would contribute to town. Mostly asking others to do work for him while he sits and waits and gets his postcount up.
And while I'm reading PT2's case right now, it wouldn't be a surprise to see both of them role scum. DrT votes him without saying another word. Sheeping the wagon that isn't him because it isn't him that will get killed if it goes through.
@smcc
You brought up this post as an answer to why PT and HW can't be a scumteam. I think this is actually evidence that they are a scumteam though.
The thing he says about PT and DrT being a scumteam is actually very insightful. In fact it's the most insightful thing in his entire filter. DrT gave up because the alternative lynch was also scum, so there was no point in fighting.
HW is in a position where BOTH of his scumbuddies are the two lynch targets d1. Bussing is an absolute necessity at this point.
Also HW never acts on his realization that they are both scum. He never mentions PT as scum again.
When I ask him why is PT town, he gives the absolute scummiest answer possible:
On June 08 2013 10:42 HartnellWill wrote:
He didn't set off my scumdar yet.
Night ends in 18 minutes right?
Town would say "he has a lot of activity" or "he has said townie sounding things" but instead we get this complete nonanswer. Then he changes the subject like it's no big deal.
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Dude I'm sorry if I'm sounding condescending but it's just I think all your arguments for Ecc are bad. I've been there dude. Dat tunnel. Dat confirmation bias.
1 Why am I defending Ecc so hard.. well because you are going at him so hard. I am quite sure you are town and I want you on my side. Also Ecc seems like a newer player and he isn't trying or maybe isn't capable of defending himself.
Also my townread on ECC is extremely strong.
2 Early game aggression is leaning town MAYBE for some people but I would be more comfortable saying it's alignment neutral.
It's somewhat harder for scum because they have to find something that they can misconstrue as scummy.
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i do like your point about hw/pt scumteam or ecc/me scumteam though. Ask yourself, do I really seem scummy? Also ask yourself, is it possible ecc is just newish town?
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Sorry for the quadruple post.
This is another one in response to TD.
i mean Ecc read the Ver guide on how to play town for fuck sakes.
I'm really sorry if im being disrespectful to you. it's just that I feel very strongly about the wrongness of your arguments. I have been refuting point by point. I have been saying WHY I think they are not conclusive. Please, I welcome you to present your most damming arguments, and I will say why I disagree one by one.
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The Ver guide is a good one actually. hhmmph
I agree, it would have to be a pretty craft scum to conjure that.
I truly think scum team is either:
PT/HW or Ecc/H3.
With 5/2, we can afford to mislynch into one of the teams; and then during LYLO lynch into the other team to win.
Based on the Ver guide, I will vote for HW.
##Unvote
##Vote: HartnellWill
H3, the other reason Im doing this 180' is because I want to learn from my lesson with Tom.
Throughout the cycle he remained present, and everyone else disappeared.
PT or HW should have weighed in again since their votes.
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Davison, H3, why do you discard Baker as possible scum? We know that scum bussed now (unless Davis/PT are scum), and Baker looks like someone who sacked the town cred for the lynch and then rested on it without contributing.
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I really thought the Baker / Dr.T stuff was genuine and laced with too much passive aggressive innuendo to be staged.
+ Show Spoiler [1] +On May 30 2013 10:22 Baker1986 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2013 10:08 DrTennant wrote:
Baker it appears from my perspective has just decided to sheep who i think is the towniest guy in mccoy and who might have the largest thread control. Baker never gave reasoning he just called mccoy smart and it looks like he is just trying to latch on to an early wagon. McCoy only has thread control because we allow him to have it. If I didn't think he was doing a good job I wouldn't let him lead. A very important part of mafia is not to figure out who is scum, but to figure out who is town. I agree with Mccoy's suspicions of you, and I specifically explained in detail here why I disagreed with you: Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 22:46 Baker1986 wrote:On May 29 2013 22:17 DrTennant wrote:On May 29 2013 18:40 SMcCoy wrote:
Hello.
I took note of Eccleston's aggressive entrance.
His latest post suggests that he doesn't know what to make of MSmith.
I have bad vibes about him. My first guess would have been to assume that scum did not post yet, they have no interest in driving discussion at early stages. That is what I assume.
Eccleston's strange paranoid behavior with subtle criticism suggests that he has differing methods of finding scum or that he is trying to look like he's scumhunting by voicing quick, exaggerated suspicions with not much reasoning behind them. At first criticizing very early posts and then proceeding to call someone's actions ambiguous without specifying why.
We might just differ in our methods but I will be observing this subject during our stay and beg him to keep posts as informative and objective as possible. This is actually the scummiest post in thread in my opinion super ambiguous and actually says nothing. Says he took note of whatever that means offers some reasion why eccleston's posts might be interpreted as scummy then leaves justification for why it might not be. Why so wishy washy? You scum? The only thing I find interesting about McCoy is that he didn't feel the need to comment on anything else. I'm not saying that McCoy is town, but this post doesn't make him scum. Not having a firm opinion on players 1 page into the game is probably to be expected, so I'm not sure what you have a problem with here? He raises a point about Eccleston that's inconclusive but still worth reading. I agree with McCoy that Eccleston's approach leaves much to be desired, and he seems to be looking to pick a fight. Eccleston is not in the business of handing out information of his thought processes. This doesn't make Eccleston scum, but it certainly feels like a valid point to bring up for discussion. Please share more of your thoughts. (To Dr.T) Your latest post just makes you look even worse. Anyone who is reading the thread with any kind of attention should be able to tell I'm pretty towny, probably second to only McCoy. I don't think you're paying attention, I think your suspicion of me is based on nothing. There is nothing wrong with sheeping in mafia, and you're trying to make it out to be scummy. In fact, if you're not stupid, you should realize that my behavior could both be explained by town-baker and scum-baker. It's not strange for a town-baker to agree with someone I consider town, so why do you only look at one option? Are you lazy? bad? scum?
+ Show Spoiler [2] +On May 30 2013 10:30 Baker1986 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2013 10:08 DrTennant wrote:
Baker it appears from my perspective has just decided to sheep who i think is the towniest guy in mccoy and who might have the largest thread control. Baker never gave reasoning he just called mccoy smart and it looks like he is just trying to latch on to an early wagon. Actually I want to take this one step further. Explain in detail why this is the only viable conclusion you can reach from my posting up until the point you throw the suspicion on me. Explain the following. 1) Why does scum-baker sheep McCoy but town-baker doesn't. 2) Why does scum-baker call McCoy smart but town-baker doesn't. 3) Why would scum-baker join a wagon but town baker wouldn't. Assuming your "read" isn't utter bullshit, you must have valid explanations to these questions, or you wouldn't have come to the conclusion my behavior was scummy.
The other part is this, which actually goes some way towards clearing Eccleston as well.
On May 30 2013 10:08 DrTennant wrote:Smocoy i don't really care that you think im scum the only part that concerns me is the last part of your post where you say that your unlikely to change. + Show Spoiler +Now i think with your effort and you confidence that your most likely to be town. Misguided town but town nonetheless. And that all the information that i care about from your case. Now it seems like you have gone into tunnel mode with that last part of your post and i think thats insanely stupid one because im not scum and two a ton of people haven't posted.
For what its worth yes i do actually think town are more likely to thrown town reads out there. Scum are more worried about keeping a "story" straight so they are more reluctant to give out reads then be called out later if they flip flop. Mafia have an information advantage and usually are reluctant to give it out.
You seem to think that your post communicated a lot more than it did. I took as wishy washy and filler post and that is scummy
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That said i dont really mind the spotlight i i thrive in it. And most importantly it helps to make reads. With a ton of people not posting i think there is a definite possibility of 1 or even 2 scum being completely inactive. Of the "active" posters the ones that concern me the most are eccleston and baker. Eccelston despite being active early seems to have just decided to fuck off while i been in the spotlight despite his hig activity early. He hasn't given an opinion on anything that has happened despite showing he was active early on. Baker it appears from my perspective has just decided to sheep who i think is the towniest guy in mccoy and who might have the largest thread control. Baker never gave reasoning he just called mccoy smart and it looks like he is just trying to latch on to an early wagon. He is trying to get off the hook so throws you some alternatives.
Eccleston + Baker.
I haven't seen a situation where a scum tries to save himself by throwing another scum into the mix (voluntarily). We already know Dr.T is a goon; which adds further credence that he suggested two townies.
Baker is pissing me off with the low activity, but the thing with this game is. We dont know if anyone is playing in two games at the same time (which could also explain the low activity?)
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I haven't seen a situation where a scum tries to save himself by throwing another scum into the mix (voluntarily). We already know Dr.T is a goon; which adds further credence that he suggested two townies.
The dirt-throwing wasn't really serious, it might as well have been a sort of distancing. The only guy DrT agreed on pursuing somewhat was Troughton.
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Davison is not scum, these last posts display a very attentive to detail approach to reading the game.
he's right in the right way.
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I'm now slightly leaning towards Hartnell being scum. But I need more thorough reading before making a final decision.
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I actually kinda like Davison's point about Eccleston, although I don't think it's anywhere close to conclusive..
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Reading a bit hurndall's stuff makes me feel much better about this game.
Again, still inconclusive, but I think PT/HW might be a good shot for a scumteam. This could actually work and might explain so many things in this game.
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@scum
Nothing happens until you reach 2v5, d4, and then the entire thread becomes a scum trap.
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On June 08 2013 10:34 Hurndall3 wrote:
HW explain your townread of PT.
And vice versa. On June 08 2013 11:16 PTroughton2 wrote:
Remind me about this question if I forget to address it when I return from my familial engagement.
PT2000, still waiting for this one.
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If I am leading in votes, then I resign myself to my fate. This game was never mine to start with.
Then I will flip town and you will all lynch Eccleston. My death would be the greatest sense of clarity in this game, I feel, because the alternative is I write a shitty case that scum misinterpret and town reads with a heap of salt.
There is definitely a scum sheeping my vote right now. I do not believe it is McCoy at all, but H3, TD, and Baker all seem like possible candidates.
My guess would be Baker > TD > H3 in order of increasing towniness. Baker is sheeping without anything to say, and TD seems to have done a 180 in the name of avenging Tom but otherwise throwing his one best read out for a choice between me and H3. The shenangians portrayed here are overwhelming. H3 seems to be the catalyst for this lynch and he's definitely had a red game before today.
I will await the end of the day in the lurker den unless I have reason to come out.
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HW,
the above is not clear.
Who is your Are you stating the scum on your lynch is Baker or H3?
And why are you twisting my vote by saying "I avenge Tom".
The Ver guide point is very relative. Why are you ignoring it?
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his scumreads are Ecc, H3, TD, and Baker.
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I obviously did not write clear.
HW stated: "There is definitely a scum sheeping my vote right now" [H3, TD, Baker] are possible candidates.
Then he orders them with towniest on the left [Baker, TD, H3].
However, when describing the candidates: the only one he references to sheeping is Baker. So which is, the scum sheeping; or the towniest?
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EPT
