[M][N] Les Mafia

On May 06 2013 10:55 GMarshal wrote:

(turning to fantine)
And this I swear to you tonight
Your child will live within my care
And I will raise her to the light.

On May 06 2013 11:18 GMarshal wrote:

Time. Give me 36 hour days and I will happily play, but as is, I hardly even have a chance to read tl, much less sink a few hours a day into a game.

I enjoyed our duet though, we should try to get the thread to sing "Do you hear the people sing" now :-P

On May 16 2013 07:18 sputnik.theory wrote:
daft punk CD leaks on the interwebs - everybody is dancing - no one wants to play mafia

On May 17 2013 01:17 marvellosity wrote:


tunnel-mode engaged <3

On May 18 2013 02:38 iamperfection wrote:
you see to have some self esteem issues dp.

Now would you be more likely to bring them up if you were town or scum. Overall i would say you would be more likely to bring them up as scum. Obviously not super alignment indicative but.......

if you are town dont be a little bitch

On May 18 2013 02:57 Stutters695 wrote:
So why bring up you've never rolled scum? There is no reason to believe it currently.

On May 18 2013 03:07 iamperfection wrote:
alright im off to the gym you guys are boring me and bh is making me angry.

back in a few hours

On May 18 2013 03:24 Spicydinosaur wrote:


You did not post it merely for people's convenience, you posted to specifically point out that you were always town.

On May 18 2013 03:32 sputnik.theory wrote:
viva la revolucion!
Gentlemen this is no time for idle banter - there are impostors among us! Vile, dirty lying scumbags who hate justice and freedom... they seek to undermine our work and enslave our kind for generations to come.
I propose we move our conversation to the matter of ousting these leeches so that we can hang them... or perhaps worse...
- Let us first agree on reasonable parameters of our discussion, is there a general consensus that we can expect roughly 1 in 4 of our group to be scum?
- I hope we agree that lynching Day1 is a must.

Now in my part of the city it is Friday night and I must take part in the rituals of my people as we drink and whore ourselves to contentment but I shall be back to discuss our progress on tomorrow morn.
Be strong my brothers - we can overcome.

On May 18 2013 03:34 marvellosity wrote:


I feel obliged to say that you did almost the exact same thing in Ego mafia, and in a much more 'scummy' way, and you were town.

Surely you should understand his mindset?

On May 18 2013 03:16 s0Lstice wrote:
^slacker

WoS, can you elaborate on how you read DP so well?

On May 18 2013 04:28 grush57 wrote:
damnit sputnik you're playing textbook scum

On May 18 2013 04:36 s0Lstice wrote:
/trustfall catch me WoS

soo your question was: s0l can you talk about yourself? yea I can do that.

I tend to be a fan of meta. I don't use it all the time...I use it in a manner similar to how BH was describing. I have a shitty win record, though I do get NKed early a fair amount. I have a virgin, unlynched neck. I'm usually pretty active. I like weird set-ups just as much as I like a good normal mini. I like ice cream, electric guitars, and words that sound like what they mean.

On May 18 2013 05:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vayne hunt scum and stop that bullshit as that's incredibly bad.

On May 18 2013 13:00 DarthPunk wrote:
Oh, just as an aside, if WoS thinks he can read me with meta he is wrong like everyone else.

On May 18 2013 06:13 goodkarma wrote:
It's worth noting that Vayne proposed a no lynch as town in his last newbie game that just finished up. He also hesitated to give reads that game too... I don't feel he's a good lynch right now since his play (though bad) is consistent with what I've seen him do as town before.

On May 18 2013 15:08 DarthPunk wrote:


You scum bro?

On May 18 2013 15:40 yamato77 wrote:
Sputnik has barely posted, not going to jump on lynching him unless he never comes back.

JJD just called out BH for the worst part of his filter, which I find to be a townie insight.

Not thrilled with either lynch.

On May 18 2013 16:06 yamato77 wrote:

I generally agree with what you said about it. He's playing slightly different from how I've seen town WoS play. It's like he has a hard time calling someone scummy.

On May 18 2013 23:41 Dandel Ion wrote:
Point me to where exactly you've proven you're town.

On May 19 2013 00:13 Stutters695 wrote:

Because it's Saturday and the lady wants to do stuff. You'll still get posts out of me.

On May 19 2013 00:41 iamperfection wrote:
spicy going against what town thinks right now makes me think he is more likely to be town.

On May 19 2013 00:50 Spicydinosaur wrote:


This goes back to the beginning of the game when i gave s0Lstice some shit for posting about his game history being all town. It's the same type of argument. What really helps get scum is to get people's opinions, have people take sides, and see if they defend them. grush hasn't done this and it bothers me.

On May 19 2013 01:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hey WoS, I just told you who is scum, what do you think about that?

On May 19 2013 01:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I think we should lynch sputnic or BH.

On May 19 2013 01:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Haha WoS, i remember you telling me the same thing about 2 days ago and look what happened.

I'll elaborate, as said, in 2hours when i get to a computer, posting from my phone is hard.

On May 19 2013 01:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The last game where i got killed, and you said same stuff early on.

On May 19 2013 02:15 goodkarma wrote:
Since it looks like no one here is going to vote for Grush now that he said Starsenses several more times, I'll be changing my vote. I still feel he's scummy and would like to lynch him, but consolidation is important. Also, there's always the chance he will be vigi shot. Among scummy Grush and lurkers Sputnik and JarJar, one should likely be vigi shot.

So to summarize my thoughts on Sputnik and JarJar:

Both are lurkers. And both have played as lurkers in the past as town. Therefore, they are not necessarily acting differently from their town meta as far as activity goes. Looking at content, neither has much substance. I would rather not lynch into them today. That being said, I would rather lynch Sputnik than JarJar.


WaveofShadow, on the other hand, is a different matter. From what I remember of his play in The Game, he played pretty horribly. As town he was wishy washy about his stances on most players, and when he was nearly lynched the only thing that really saved him was that he blueclaimed. Here, he seems to be a lot more sure of himself in places, but in a way that doesn't really make sense to me from a town perspective. Sputnik, who basically made one scummy post and lurked, is "sure scum" to him. And Grush is "sure town" for saying starsenses. This has already been discussed, but the contrast from his townplay is what stands out to me. Further, he seems to really like asking people for scumreads. His questions don't seem to really have any purpose other than to make him look more active. Look at his filter and see how many times he asks a variation of "Who you think is scum?" It's a pretty pointless thing to ask, given everyone here is going to be giving their scumreads anyways.

##Unvote
##Vote: WaveofShadow

On May 19 2013 01:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The last game where i got killed, and you said same stuff early on.

On May 19 2013 03:10 goodkarma wrote:


Just addressed the consolidation thing. As for Sputnik over JarJar: Sputnik looks like he'll never improve his post quality (and therefore it's more likely it would be a policy lynch even if we don't lynch him today) whereas JarJar will likely post enough content in upcoming days I'm confident I'll have a better read on him.

The issue with your stance on Sputnik (in case the others voting you haven't made it clear enough to you) is that he's "obvscum" to you. Scum tend to take rigid stances like this, not townies. Especially when considering how little's actually in the guy's filter, it's hard to understand how you'd be so sure as town.

On May 18 2013 15:47 WaveofShadow wrote:

So no GK, no sputnik. no JJD.
You planning on coming up with something?
I mean, I agree with you on sputnik so far as I expect him to come back and say/do something, but until he does my vote stays on him so I'm treating him scummy until proven otherwise, unlike you, whose method is innocent until proven lurky?

I'm not sure I agree with you regarding JJD's recent post because weren't there other people who realized what BH seemed to about VA at the same time?
And why is GK not getting lynched today?

On May 19 2013 03:24 marvellosity wrote:
Completely unsure. His answer about grush was better than I expected, but I'm still not a fan of how he pursued him.

On May 19 2013 03:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yeah and ##Vote: Goodkarma

On May 19 2013 02:58 goodkarma wrote:
The way he brought up starsenses here was under heavy pressure, as Darthpunk has also pointed out. Also, I couldn't find an instance where the guy OMGUS voted like he did here. In general, this is a very scummy thing. Finally, while Grush may troll quite a lot, I've found there are instances of sanity where he does contribute as town, which I also haven't really seen here.

As for consolidation, yes it's a bit early. But given the last few games I've obs'ed / been in have had profound problems with this, I figured I'd rather push for it sooner than later. I feel Wave is a good lynch for today, so I have no issue switching my vote to him.

On May 19 2013 06:54 VayneAuthority wrote:


I do not think he is remotely suspicious as of now, no. My scumreads are s0lstice, Stutters, WoS in that order. to consolidate what I have said so far

On May 19 2013 06:58 marvellosity wrote:
Wave - I hosted goodkarma's first (I think?) newbie game, number 24.

In this game, in the first 2 days, town had massive problems with consolidation, despite it being plurality lynch. Votes were spread all over the place. Only on day 3 did GK understand the value of consolidation (even in plurality). So that point doesn't ring true to me, just because I know goodkarma was taught a serious lesson about consolidation. You can go read his filter from there, or perhaps you could read my post-game analysis there where I touch on the same things.

On May 19 2013 07:07 yamato77 wrote:

It looks to me like he's just searching for the best town-created wagon to sheep, no?

Honestly, all meta aside, there is almost no difference between GK and WoS except the tone of their posting, and GK seems more inquisitive and insightful versus WoS' aggressiveness and decisiveness.

WoS may be here, posting, but I have yet to see what I expect from WoS, which is actual personal insight into the game versus parroting what people are already saying about players.

I mean, do you think GK is scum? I'm on the fence, to be honest. It's hard to tell whether he seems more like his town game or his scum game.

On May 19 2013 07:11 iamperfection wrote:

grush was the first person to mention that sputnik was scummy.

On May 19 2013 07:39 yamato77 wrote:
If anyone is the king of martyring, it's me

I hammered myself.

On May 19 2013 07:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:

really? you have ragequitted a game and and that is the cheapest thing i have ever seen. You did deserve a 100 game ban, as i got a 5 games for a misunderstanding and i just handled it. And you ruined another game to be fair. I have no real respect fpr you, aside from your play. Sorry to be so straight, but you asked.

As for the game, yamato; Explain, how is iamp's read on me and solstice fair from his list? gimme details.

On May 19 2013 13:46 DarthPunk wrote:
*also you just flipped scum in Carnival and you played shit/lazy in that game too. I also had a scum read on you in the obs qt like since day one of that game. So i know how to read you.

On May 20 2013 00:58 DarthPunk wrote:
Also has WoS just fucked off now that his wagon has fallen apart?

On May 20 2013 09:40 Stutters695 wrote:

I never am active on weekends. Sucks but it happens every game.

On May 20 2013 08:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Actually nobody was, but the lynch is 100% scum driven. rofl. and for what reasons.

On May 18 2013 23:23 Spicydinosaur wrote:


s0Lstice's filter comes up very scummy for me. He started off by posting about his meta and pointing out that he was never scum.



I get them some people like to use a lot of meta to play but the fact that he has always been town is irrelevant as every new game could be the first time you get scum.

He also throws some spam in a number of his posts like this:



I've noticed that there is a lot of spam in many guy's post so this might not be such a big deal. The thing that really bugs me is this post:



He keeps pushing this reliance on meta and I find it extremely scummy. He firsts points out that he has never rolled scum, then says that if you roll scum for the first time, you are going to have a bad time. His posts can be summed up in a nice simple sentence: I have never rolled scum and if I did I would be playing so much shittier that it would be obvious.

His later posts seem to then abandon mention of meta and actually really focus on reading other players. He didn't jump on the vayne bandwagon like a lot of others did. I did like his read on goodkarma and did a good job of calling him out on his back and forth thoughts of jarjar.

As of now I'd say he's not scum. I really dislike his meta play style but his subsequent posts have gotten better.

On May 19 2013 09:26 Spicydinosaur wrote:
I'm reading raynpelikoneet as a shitty town. He claimed that GK was scum and supported it with a number of points in a couple of posts. This may not be the best argument but at least he's supporting his position.





However he then goes off the rails with iamperfection after he gives his quick view of the group.






This seems more like a impulse child vote than anything throwing a hissy fit because he feels his play is on a different level. There is a clear difference in the mentality that went into the voting of GK and iamp. Seems very spammy for spammy sake.

On May 19 2013 23:27 Spicydinosaur wrote:


Your lurking is a huge problem and it seems you don't really care that people are upset that you are. Even if you have limited time, why not spend it filtering a player and getting an opinion on him off. This post feels like a delay of anything substantive. The best way you can defend yourself is to give me thoughts/opinions on the other players. vote is staying on you.

On May 20 2013 10:52 Spicydinosaur wrote:


Why surprised?

On May 18 2013 23:55 Dandel Ion wrote:

So why are you angry people read you scum if you know you haven't shown your incredible greenness and town love.
And that's what I'm saying about you FYI. You haven't let your kermit shine through.


Wait, I need more reason than that?

On May 20 2013 11:11 Spicydinosaur wrote:


I agree but didn't it seem over the top scummy, like no rational scum player would play it like that.

On May 20 2013 11:51 s0Lstice wrote:


This is important if you think Marv is town.

On May 20 2013 12:25 Blazinghand wrote:
omg 12k!

On May 20 2013 12:38 DarthPunk wrote:
Lynch blazinghand tomorrow. I'm not joking around with you.



This. Is exactly what he does when he slips as scum. Says it himself so it doesn't look so bad. IT IS STILL AS SLIP.

On May 20 2013 12:41 Blazinghand wrote:


I assumed this game was a 3-scum game. If this were a 3-scum game, by night 3 I'll have masoned a 3rd person, it's no longer possible we're all scum together.

The OP Does not state the number of scum, and for 16 players 4 would be more normal. DP assumes that I assumed 3 scum due to outside knowledge (ie being in the scum QT) and is attacking me based on that.

On May 20 2013 12:50 Blazinghand wrote:
Like, I "scumslip" all the time as town, and apparently an unusually high amount of the time as a blue. I was lucky that some of those times my claims were rocksolid or I had a good start rather than a bad start. This time, my claim is Mason and people are positing I'm a scum masoner (or am just fakeclaiming entirely in cahoots with marv) so my position is weaker. That being said, I beat the jubjubs trying to mislynch me those times, AND I'LL DO IT THIS TIME TOO.

On May 20 2013 13:08 DarthPunk wrote:


Exactly. Blazinghand knows this and yet was operating under the knowledge of a 3 man scum team.

On May 20 2013 13:17 DarthPunk wrote:


nope. I would call you all fucking idiots because I didn't scumslip if I was town. or act confused like WoS was initially.

On May 20 2013 13:24 DarthPunk wrote:


If I slipped as town I would call you all fucking idiots. 'all' being those accusing me. Don't know how you can get me calling you scum from that.

On May 21 2013 00:26 marvellosity wrote:


Do you think taunting is a good mafia tactic?

On May 21 2013 00:30 JarJarDrinks wrote:

Was leaning scum. I wasn't crazy about how he misread my meta or how he was so quick to believe BHs claim. Not sure why he thinks he was "the towniest motherfucker in the game"

On May 21 2013 00:35 marvellosity wrote:


wasn't my question

On May 21 2013 00:38 marvellosity wrote:
Probably not, no.

On May 21 2013 01:00 marvellosity wrote:


Sweetie, I'll never be afraid to engage you in discussion.

My point is "is he being a good little townie" is a different question to "is this guy mafia". That's the distinction I was trying to get at with my question (which you didn't understand by your counter-question). If you're struggling to see the town motivation in 'taunting' town as town, there's very little mafia motivation for it either, because it brings attention on yourself. Typical mafia MO is to blend in using whatever chosen method; usually "taunting" is not one, but your post said (to paraphrase) "why aren't we lynching dandel for taunting us, the taunting is more convincing as a mafia trait than BH's scumslip + reactions".

If all townies always played proper town-like, the game of mafia would be exceptionally easy.

Ok?

On May 21 2013 01:11 marvellosity wrote:


The irony of it is, if it *wasn't* Dandel, I'd be quite confident his slot was town, because antagonistic, blaze players are usually town. But because it is Dandel, I'm not so sure about that read. I went over his filter earlier, and other than the weird shit-fest with me, I didn't find much particularly upsetting. His reads kinda make sense, and they are actually evolved and explained if you look past some of the weirdness.

Quite a lot depends on how he performs on Day 2 I guess.

On May 21 2013 05:22 marvellosity wrote:


Very little has gone on there. I'll probably just copy/paste it.

On May 21 2013 07:54 Blazinghand wrote:
So we don't have a claim for that 2nd shot, do we? Means there's a 3p in the game, and I've been counterclaimed, so nobody's going to listen to me until I flip. I'll just do what I can to write a good case then so after I flip there's something for you guys to work off of.

On May 21 2013 07:18 VayneAuthority wrote:


Found rayn suspicious early, so my scumdar on this guy goes down a bit.

But then later a quick search on his filter brings up a lot of conversation with iamp and rayn and he never really accuses either of being mafia...still a pretty weak scumread for me. This could be the one im wrong about

On May 21 2013 07:21 goodkarma wrote:


First off, the wording is "don't typically," which is very important. You (and everyone else) seem to be treating my day one play as though I had knowledge of my alignment, which isn't the case...

With Stutters, my early vote was a form of pressure. It's been my experience that he's very hard to get much out of at times, so an early case felt appropriate.

Further, if you are to look at this game and compare it to prior ones, you will notice I have no mention of policy lurker lynches, which has been an early staple of my play (regardless of alignment) since like forever. So if you believe, as some seem to, that my use of meta-analysis is poor, yet are holding me to some kind of meta, I would like you to consider my two scumgames.:

1) LVII I could pretty much do whatever the fuck I wanted (as long as I didn't draw a RB), as Mattchew was caught and I was planning on suiciding night one. So I was more aggressive there than I normally would be.

2) My very first scumgame which no one seems to remember or mention (NMM XXIII) was mostly a lurkfest. I sat there and made a case or two. The moment I was suspected I crumbled up and waited to die...

So in short, if I were scum I'm confident that what you'd see something different from both of them. But what you wouldn't have seen is me throwing around votes as hard as I did or changing my stances like I did. I've played enough to know better than to make a bajillion vote switches as scum. I would have been far more cautious.

And yes, you could respond with something like "Well wouldn't you as scum, knowing all this, just make a post like this anyway?" You should be familiar enough now with the way I've played as town to understand my playstyle and thought process. People rail on me all the time for my day one townplay. It's because of policy talk, or focusing on lurkey players, or some creative play that no one likes (not looking at role PM day 1)...

If you were to believe me when I say that I didn't look at my role PM until when I said I did in thread, and then assess my reads, I would like to know how you think they line up with yours. Move spicy to null, BH to certain scum+ Show Spoiler +, and Rayne to confirmed town, and that's about where I stand right now. I may have a "hard-to-read playstyle," but the one thing that has always been consistent is the strength of my reads. They become solid over time as town, and are absolute shit as scum. If you are to judge me on anything, I recommend you look at that.

On May 21 2013 08:19 marvellosity wrote:
I don't know which I find more likely. Maybe I'll muse on which Les Mis character would likely be SK. Tenardier perhaps? :>

Blazing's assumption that it means 3p is certainly not a good one. When I was last mafia in a 16 player mini, we had a mafia vigi (Hero Mini Mafia).

If town has a vigi he might not have shot last night. Who knows.

On May 21 2013 08:34 marvellosity wrote:


I would say town vigis usually shoot on night 1s (even though they shouldn't in minis especially, they should wait). I rolled vigi 3 times, shot twice first night and once 2nd night. Then again I don't expect to live to use my shot.

Shooting grush causes no confusion (at least not to a town with me alive). Either town vigi claims his bad shot and I shout at them, or it's 3p, because on night 1 especially it sure as hell isn't a mafia shot.

If I were 3p, I would leave enough weirdish, unreadable-ish players around like grush, stutters etc around as much as possible, because they never bring clarity to a game.

On May 21 2013 09:04 goodkarma wrote:


I definitely can. If I were to not PM peek and then later look and find out I'm scum, I wouldn't have bias in my posts until after that point. And that's very relevant to your case at hand, and what originally made you so irked, no? This is very much about you not believing that claim, so don't pretend it isn't.

My play here is a little different from my prior games, and I've already highlighted those differences. I've also shown you how meta analyzing me based on my prior scumgames is pretty bad.


That leaves my reads, so I'd like to ask you: what about them do you disagree with? That is my strength, and where the discussion should be. In particular, I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say about what I recently posted about Dandel.

On May 21 2013 09:07 s0Lstice wrote:
also, Marv

I'd like to hear about this some more:

It's players like s0lstice we need to keep our eyes on.

from the QT with iamp. What exactly is your read on me?

On May 21 2013 09:26 Stutters695 wrote:

So what makes you vote DI over BH. Do you not feel BH is nearly confirmed scum after finding out iamp is a mason?

On May 21 2013 09:39 marvellosity wrote:


I think not reading your role PM goes completely against the spirit of the game and I find it absolutely disgusting.

In Red Team I joined Hapa's policy lynch on OO for a while when he said he didn't read his role PM without saying much about it before leaving it alone and not talking about it.

I'm not wasting my time thinking about something that's basically the height of unsportsmanship.

On May 18 2013 07:32 Dandel Ion wrote:
Hey guys this thread looks extraordinarily dumb and only dumb shit is happening and I am extremely uninterested in everything that's happened so far.

I just was like "oh yeah another thread that's as full of irrelevant bs as Personality*, that gotta be FUN" so I just HAD to replace in.

Now I shall read my role PM.
Or shall I?
I guess I shall, but I'm not decided yet!

On May 21 2013 09:52 marvellosity wrote:
I did post my read on s0lstice, probably within the last page, dear.

On May 21 2013 09:58 marvellosity wrote:


no no, I meant iamp's read on him in his will post.

On May 21 2013 21:40 JarJarDrinks wrote:

am I the only one that reads this as "I'll vote for BH if he's already dead but if there's a chance I can get someone else lynched I will"?

And what do you mean by "an easy frame attempt from mafia"? Doesn't frame imply that mafia did something to put suspicion on him? Where's the frame?

On May 21 2013 22:15 JarJarDrinks wrote:
YOU, Darthpunk and probably Grush


You - based on the CnP fail as well as just being inconsistant in your explaination for it.

DP - reasons already stated.

Grush - for not posting any real opinion yet this game.

On May 22 2013 00:20 marvellosity wrote:
Wave you so cute

The frame? what?

On May 22 2013 00:31 JarJarDrinks wrote:
You're post looked suspicious to me so I pointed it out. That doesn't make you a scumread.

I was asked

On May 22 2013 00:35 marvellosity wrote:


Well framing is typically done by a framer.

I've mentioned this before, but iamp doesn't have to die for him to stop being a town mason. 90%+ of the game thought iamp was strongly town (silly rayn), so if iamp and/or me are alive tomorrow producing those logs with the existing reads of town, what difference is it?

Do you really think if iamp were alive, there'd be enough doubt about his alignment for it to make a substantial difference?

On May 21 2013 23:53 marvellosity wrote:


I thought the same yesterday about the BH thing, today I'm not so convinced on it.

I also checked out JarJar's newbie games; in 2 he didn't make any activity excuses at all, in 1 he made several. Guess the alignments?

His general tone is bugging me too, but I don't know how to explain that one very well.

On May 22 2013 01:15 marvellosity wrote:
Because I'm omnipresent and I have lovely abs.

Thank you for asking me to explain something I said I couldn't explain very well. He's coming across as overly aggressive, it feels like he's working against town rather than with town. Do you understand what I mean by that?

On May 22 2013 01:17 Spicydinosaur wrote:


Maybe because I can't have a conversation with someone who doesn't respond to my post asking you a question.

On May 22 2013 01:37 VayneAuthority wrote:


This is exactly what I mean, I don't want to lynch BH just because a town mason flipped, he hasn't acted that scummy before this whole stalling thing. Usually when hes accused hes very quick to fight back but hes kinda laying low. Wouldnt be surprised if hes telling his mafia team what to do after he dies or something.

On May 22 2013 01:39 DarthPunk wrote:
@ WoS listen to marv. He is right. Blazinghand was scum to me because I was around in the moment and his reactions revealed a scum mindset tellingly, but I can understand at that point if others didn't agree. But the way he has constantly talked about scum hunting or being productive in the Mason QT but has not actually produced anything is the most telling. This guy can't scumhunt cause he doesn't want to give any info so he is sitting tight, making all the promises in the world like some guy trying to lose his virginity.

About goodkarma. I was going to say once again that I would rather wait and see before I pass judgement on Him. But then I realised that I have been saying that all along with no payoff from GK. and the reason for that is that I am fond of Goodkarma because we grew up together.

There IS something off about goodkarma, marv's points are good and the fundamental problem I am having is all the Excuses.

Such as

But I am always scummy day one

This always happens to me

I didn't even read my role PM but now I did and I am town even though if I was scum I would also say I was town.

Now it is day two and goodkarma still is not looking very good.

The thing is though. Town goodkarma is fucking townie townie rainbows. So this isn't very hard.

Goodkarma either becomes townie townie rainbows and takes fucking charge of the scm hunt like I know he is capable of. (best town newbie performance 2012)

or we lynch the shit out of him next. and Dandel.

in fact. I am calling a scum team rite nao.

BH, Dandel, Goodkarma and JJD if one of those isn't scum

On May 22 2013 06:48 Dandel Ion wrote:
but good point on the switch onto iamp

although, i guess as was pointed out, it's technically possible he was the shot all along, albeit unlikely, seeing as Hapa is not on the player list

On May 22 2013 08:22 Blazinghand wrote:


I'm certain I've directly responded to your recent post addressing me. Is there another post besides this one (link) of yours that you want me to read?

On May 22 2013 08:33 Blazinghand wrote:


1) 3 scumreads is clearly enough
2) I no longer have a scumread on JJD, if you've been reading my interaction with stutters this page
3) not really a solid scumread on DI, though this is suject to change
4) you

On May 22 2013 08:46 Stutters695 wrote:
His three would be GK, you, DI in order of scumminess based off of our talks.

I'm modestly sure WoS is scum. He had an extremely flip-floppy post earlier in the game (link). I had him as one of my top scumreads over the course of D1, and it seems like he's fishing for reasons to attack me (like, what? I'm clearly getting lynched today) and not really reading what I have to write today. I'm not as positive on this as I am on my GK scumread though.

On May 22 2013 09:11 s0Lstice wrote:
Marv (and all)--

This is compelling:



I went back and read that exchange and I see what you are getting at. I think it's significant. Building on what I said here...



...I went to look at JJ's filter again to see if it looked like he was scrambling for credit for BH's flip, because I seemed to remember him fighting for it a lot.



Bolded is a passive reminder that he's been saying this all along. Also, talking about a DP bus play is just off the wall nuts imo. I see no reason why this thought would cross any town players mind at this juncture...but it could come from the mind of someone who has been thinking 'bus' all game. This is pointed out in the next quote.



Another reminder that he has been on BH 24/7.





Those speak for themselves. Combine this with what Marv was saying about his attitude:



Fighting for credit for bus-->not getting it-->aggressive/attitude

It reminds me of how Mattchew was caught in 'I Can't Believe it's Not Themed.' He and sciberbia drove for a lynch of a scum talismania, and scum Mattchew wanted to take credit for it when it was very much irrelevant who did what.

I mean, we haven't seen a flip yet, but this fits pretty snugly.

BH, JJ, one of Dandel/grush for scum....GK for 3p?

On May 20 2013 22:56 JarJarDrinks wrote:

Well for starters I've been trying to push for a BH lynch all game. But DP still has me as a top scumread despite basically saying that he's 100% sure BH is scum. He earlier accused me of being a scummie that's too attached to my badwagon. You would think he'd back off me a bit since he supposedly believes that the guy I've been bandwagoning is scum.

On May 21 2013 01:24 JarJarDrinks wrote:
OK, Check out how hard DarthPunk was defending Sputnik








So why the F does he end up voting sputnik????


That explains why he'd take his vote off me. But it doesn't explain why he'd vote for the person that he had spent the previous 3 hours telling us was probably town. That was really the person he thought was the best lynch?

I don't why people are reading DP as such a townie cause I'm definately not seeing it.

On May 22 2013 10:00 s0Lstice wrote:
WoS, did you also look at JJ's scum game?

On May 22 2013 10:09 s0Lstice wrote:
I looked into his games, from that town game you pointed out I got the same general impressions. the biggest takeaway from his scum game was that he was super tunnely

On May 22 2013 11:34 goodkarma wrote:


If you were to look I discussed in the quote you cited there (literally everything under what you bolded) both that my scumgame would be different and in what way my scumplay would consistently vary from my townplay (strength of reads). It's all right there in my filter...

On May 22 2013 12:57 Blazinghand wrote:


Sure! part of it is this post here (link) which to me looks like scum angling to be ABLE to place a vote on a potential wagon, but not willing to actually lay down his cards. Also, his interactions with me today have struck me as quite "off". I'm not sure why he seems so keen on attacking me for ignoring him when I haven't been ignoring him, or trying to make me look bad when there's no realistic way I'm not getting lynched. Being afk from the thread because you're bored is one thing-- showing up in the thread and posting without trying to contribute on anything other than an essentially predetermined lynch is quite another.

Admittedly, he has recently interacted at GK. That being said, I don't like that he's pushing at and prodding GK without responding to my requests to look at the case I wrote, either. This all seems very off, very not like someone trying.

I get that this isn't the strongest of reads, but his wishywashiness D1 and his play today strike me as scum angling to blend in and look good rather than someone legitimately trying to find things out about the game.

On May 22 2013 13:38 Stutters695 wrote:


What? What in the hell do you see town in DI, please enlighten me.

On May 22 2013 13:44 Stutters695 wrote:

I want to understand why axing a contributing person who will inevitably give himself away if left alive is better than lynching someone who you think is scum and isn't doing shit.

On May 22 2013 14:32 Blazinghand wrote:
WoS if you think I'm scum, you think I'm scum. That's fine. 2 people think I'm not scum, which means there are still like 8 votes on me-- I'm getting lynched. My read on you is legitimate, and if you think the reason I won't back down on it is my "pride" as opposed to some other thing like being scum, then I'm not sure that's legit. Look, I'm dead today anyways. you can't scare me by threatening to lynch me or vote me.

You can threaten to not interact with me and not discuss my reads to me, and that bothers me, but it won't change my mind about you and it won't make me lie and say I don't think you're scum. I'm not even sure you're scum. You're not my top read, not by a long shot-- and unlike a lot of players you are here trying to discuss this.

If you want, we can not discuss my scumread of you. I'm okay with that. Or we can ignore each other and do our own distinct bests to contribute. I'm also okay with that. I'm not trying to enrage you. I have nothing to lose, I'm dead today-- I'm just doing my best to say "even though I got mislynched, I secured a win for my team"

Death is not the end.

On May 22 2013 08:43 WaveofShadow wrote:


1) Why is that enough? Who are your three?
2) I have been
3) ok
4) elaborate please

On May 22 2013 09:05 WaveofShadow wrote:

Alright I was about to ask where the hell he mentioned me but it appears he posted while I was writing something and I missed it.


I'm curious as to why 3 scumreads is enough. I'd also still like him to elaborate on me because that's a hell of a lot less detail he goes into than he did regarding GK.

A days-old read is not enough imo, especially since he says I was one of his top scumreads and he did absolutely nothing about it. I'm fishing for reasons to attack him as well he says, when in fact I'm trying to cover all avenues and possibilities because as I've said multiple times, I'M NOT sure BH is 100% scum. BH you say I don't read what you've wrote but have you read at all what I've written about you? This is a completely baseless attack on me and reeks of absolutely no effort. Why do I not deserve the effort you seem to have started putting into the game recently?

On May 22 2013 12:57 Blazinghand wrote:


Sure! part of it is this post here (link) which to me looks like scum angling to be ABLE to place a vote on a potential wagon, but not willing to actually lay down his cards. Also, his interactions with me today have struck me as quite "off". I'm not sure why he seems so keen on attacking me for ignoring him when I haven't been ignoring him, or trying to make me look bad when there's no realistic way I'm not getting lynched. Being afk from the thread because you're bored is one thing-- showing up in the thread and posting without trying to contribute on anything other than an essentially predetermined lynch is quite another.

Admittedly, he has recently interacted at GK. That being said, I don't like that he's pushing at and prodding GK without responding to my requests to look at the case I wrote, either. This all seems very off, very not like someone trying.

I get that this isn't the strongest of reads, but his wishywashiness D1 and his play today strike me as scum angling to blend in and look good rather than someone legitimately trying to find things out about the game.

On May 22 2013 09:05 WaveofShadow wrote:

Alright I was about to ask where the hell he mentioned me but it appears he posted while I was writing something and I missed it.


I'm curious as to why 3 scumreads is enough. I'd also still like him to elaborate on me because that's a hell of a lot less detail he goes into than he did regarding GK.

A days-old read is not enough imo, especially since he says I was one of his top scumreads and he did absolutely nothing about it. I'm fishing for reasons to attack him as well he says, when in fact I'm trying to cover all avenues and possibilities because as I've said multiple times, I'M NOT sure BH is 100% scum. BH you say I don't read what you've wrote but have you read at all what I've written about you? This is a completely baseless attack on me and reeks of absolutely no effort. Why do I not deserve the effort you seem to have started putting into the game recently?

On May 22 2013 09:53 WaveofShadow wrote:
JJD:
NMM XXXIX - Ok the game I was originally thinking of when talking to Marv was NMM LX. I watched this game too and paid more attention to it than LX; I remember one of the players (scum) with the stupidest fakeclaim ever but it won them the game anyway lol. JJD's role in this game was Medic.

Upon reading this (my meta reads are shit but marv asked) right off the bat I notice he is much less afraid here to engage other people in discussions and most importantly, questions. He is not the most prolific poster around but despite his filter not being absolutely massive is not afraid whatsoever to point out other people's lack of posting/lurking. Just overall a clear and obvious effort in this game from JJD.

I sort of see what marv was originally looking for me to look for...there is a sort of aggression that certainly isn't present in XXXIX but I don't get the same feels that marv is, I guess. What stands out to me here is most of his posts and cases are set up to be almost rhetorical; that is he doesn't often directly address anyone in the thread, he simply posts. It's almost seems like avoiding eye contact when you're guilty. He doesn't often directly question anyone or follow a specific line of questioning very long as opposed to in XXXIX.

/meta
Take the above with a grain of salt because again I am not confident in my meta reads very much. They could go either way and I wouldn't mind if someone else looked into it to see if it has any merit.

As for specifics on JJD this game, I've a;ready point out his useless reads post here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=410972&currentpage=94#1863

His overall tunnely play against BH and grubbing for towncred I COULD see as town play, but I don't get then where he starts to suspect DP of bussing. I suppose not everyone sees things the way I do but I HIGHLY doubt in any way DPis anything but town the way he's been playing.

Like...this post is almost like a scum pleading at town "But wait guys! I think BH is scum and look at all the scummy things he did! Why do you still think I'm scum? I'm with you guise!!"


His case here and push on DP is interesting to say the least, but then he goes right back to BH and not a word at all about DP from then on where he magically flips onto me out of absolutely fucking nowhere.

I don't know...there are things in here I COULD see from a town perspective I guess? There are a whole bunch of other scummy things on top of it though and I think the scummy things win out. Especially since he appears to be pretty damn lurky long past his promised 'weekend lurking' time. A few posts a day is not enough.

On May 22 2013 09:57 WaveofShadow wrote:
Oh hey, GK. Are you around?
Bottom of this post.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=410972&currentpage=88#1752

Answer.

On May 22 2013 10:12 WaveofShadow wrote:
Ok yeah this one is Newbie XL, the one I was talking about where all three scum derped and voteswitched with 5 min to go at LYLO.
Already his filter is absolutely tiny in a game that has more pages than the previous one where he was town.
Hmm. Well at a quick glance he seems to be actually directly engaging people in conversation somewhat and asking questions though he never follows a line of questioning at all, just pops in and out and does random shit. Figures my earlier meta basis is likely wrong, though there is something to be said that he doesn't really push anyone at all this game....could be due to lurk, could be due to scum or both.

Either way he seems to be doing more this game than that earlier scum game?

I don't know fuck the meta.

Lol mathematically though at a glance (this is kinda funny, don't know if I'd vote him just based on this but still):
NMM XXXIX - TOWN - Filter is 4 pages, thread is 33 = 12%
NMM LX - SCUM - Filter is 2 pages, thread is 59 = 3%
This game---???? Filter is 2 pages, thread is 99 thus far = 2%
Which fits more?



(Obviously there are other factors like size of the game and how long the game was going for but JJD is well on track to fall FAR below his rate of posting as town)

On May 22 2013 14:50 Blazinghand wrote:


Well sorry man, I just don't think of you as like top scum #1. I've made a lot of promises about things I'd read about and reads I'd give, and after briefly discussing you with stutters I had other fish to fry and dinners to eat. Pretending to be mad isn't going to help anyone here.



1) well, in the event of a 3p SK, there's probably 3 scum, and generally as a rule I try to focus on a small number of scumreads. At the moment, I'd say they're GK, then you and DI in the back (though this needs to be expanded on)
2) clearly you weren't, or you missed posts while writing your posts. You asked what scumreads I had about JJD after I walked back my JJD scumread.
3) ok
4) I'll get to you after I get to some other promises that I made first.





Um, I don't know where I'm lying about you. Like, most of what I said was literally cut/pasted or paraphrased from previous posts in my filter, so if I was lying now, why didn't you call me out when I said it during D1?

Look WoS, you're being an abrasive guy and I get that that's your thing right now, but don't shit up the thread during my last 12 hours alive. I need to make use of this time. If your goal is to say I'm scum, ok, fine. If you're not sure I'm scum and are trying to determine my alignment as you claim, then go right ahead. I'll answer your questions.

Believe it or not, my read on you is based on in part D1 stuff, as are a lot of my reads in all of my games. Just because it's now D2 (and a very quiet D2 at that, since scum doesn't want to rock the boat of this lynch) doesn't mean what happened D1 doesn't matter. If I had a scumread on you D1 and didn't push it well enough, fine-- that's on me. Sorry for not getting you lynched during D1, when I was playing in 3 games at once.

I've put lots of effort into this game today, but it's spread around. It's not gonna be 50% WoS, 50% non-WoS. From everyone's perspective individually, most of my talking is going to be about people that's not them.

Really though, let's keep it civil. I need to make this time count, whereas you have more time than me to accomplish your goals.

On May 22 2013 15:03 Blazinghand wrote:


Your first quote is talking about me (and GK, who i mentioned). Your second quote is a really long null-read on JJD that you say to take "with a grain of salt". Your third quote is talking about GK, who I acknowledged you talk about. Your final post is a weird and noneuseful meta read, including a reference to NMM LX which is a game that hasn't taken place yet, since we're on still on NMM XLII.

I dont' see any real contributions here, but I see a lot of stuff that looks like it!

On May 22 2013 15:25 Stutters695 wrote:

This is going to sound like a bit of a cop out but I'm too tired to read your points against BH right now. I'll check them in the morning and give thoughts with plenty of time before the lynch.

Here is where I think your comparison falls flat: Sputnik is unreadable to a certain extent with his play style. DI isn't. This is scummy and out of character for him.

On May 20 2013 11:05 WaveofShadow wrote:
Dandel Ion:
The scumclaim....wtf? I guess not aligment indicative (ie scum would never be ballsy enough to do this, or maybe he as scum was counting on us to think that way, WIFOM, etc)
I really can't comment much on the marv shitfest because I don't really get what the fuck they were arguing about. The shitfest itself looks like an attempt to get marv purposefully riled up but to what end I have no fucking clue. Again, null.

I agree with his read of Vayne; I wish we could get more stuff like this out of him.

He says he suspects me a couple times but does nothing to push it other than this. As a matter of fact he does nothing to push fucking anybody. At all.
Gives Grush a townread for the same reasons as me yet I draw all the heat for whatever fucking reason...ugh whatever.

Thinks he catches GK in a scumslip and fails, then in the same post goes on a bunch of tangents...
I have no fucking clue how to read this guy whatsoever.

If I had to commit I'd call him scum just because he doesn't seem to give a fuck about the state of town whatsoever (and supposedly when town he actually does?) I have no clue about his meta so I wouldn't base any read of him on that, but I'd lynch him if he plays another day like he did D1.

On May 23 2013 06:03 marvellosity wrote:
hey SK if you exist, you need to shoot for mafia tonight.

On May 23 2013 06:03 Dandel Ion wrote:
huehue

On May 24 2013 00:27 Spicydinosaur wrote:
Vayne has given me a town vibe since the beginning. His analysis has been level headed and hasn't joined a bandwagon.

On May 24 2013 00:33 JarJarDrinks wrote:

K, gonna comment on BHs reads + Show Spoiler +

I agree w/ BH about Marv and I'm pretty surprised to see people acting suspicious of him. Yamato saying that "Marv is "pro-town" as mafia" seems like a silly thing to say. Doesn't that imply that he'd be a bad scum player? Like his only actual reasoning for suspecting marv is that he didn't have better reads day 1 and voted for sputnik. Even though like half the town did the same thing including yamato himself.

[b]I don't agree w/ BH about DP though. I didn't think there was anything scummy about his push for BH but everything I mentioned previously still stands. The "Scummy post from s0lstice if bh flips green." quote right before the flip should certainly raise eyebrows.

I posted my thoughts on GK. I think he's town and dont feel like he's really done anything too scummy in this game.

I think WoS is probably town. I think his back n forth w/ BH was him legit getting pissed @ someone he thought was scum. I just can't imagine scum posting like that with someone that he knows is gonna flip green. It's not like he needed to put more pressure on BH since he was surely getting lynched.

K, I think I'm leaning scum on DL. Filter is pretty bad. Just complete trolling and sheeping w/o giving any insight. There's other people I'd rather lynch tomorrow but if it comes down to a race between DL and GK (which seems likely) then this is where I'd put my vote.

On May 24 2013 00:44 Spicydinosaur wrote:


fair point. Just seems with vayne that his reads are lining up with mine most of the time.

On May 24 2013 01:16 DarthPunk wrote:


I believe in you. Also I can expect you would say the same thing if someone left someone like BC or something alive at lylo.

On May 24 2013 01:46 JarJarDrinks wrote:
I thought he was bussing. That part of my case doesn't work anymore.

I thought that him calling me a scumread even though I was pushing the guy he caught scumslipping was suspicious. So him voting for BH is somewhat related to my case against him. But what I'm saying is I don't think that him pushing for the lynch of a townie is suspicious.

Here's more of my case against him:




And this is an exchange we had early in the game where I felt like he was just looking for a reason to put a vote on me: