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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On May 13 2013 04:01 prplhz wrote: Yea okay HiroPro. How the hell do you know anything about the setup? This is N0 and it's a closed setup. all you need to know is that it's closed. this isn't some sort of c9++ setup where you can use role counts to determine what's true and not. there's simply no reason to claim miller as town. you shouldn't be concerned about getting checked, you should be playing so as to not be checked. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On May 13 2013 04:14 prplhz wrote: @HiroPro Self-aware millers should generally always claim as first thing d1 (n0) so we don't have Cops checking into people we know will show scum and so we don't allow scum the excuse of "Oh, but I'm a miller" if we get a guilty check on them. @ObviousOne Are you serious? No this is just wrong. It only allows mafia to get away with claiming it right in the beginning. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
if I had shown to you that his role wasn't possible then it would be mechanics. but this is simply behavior. there is no reason to claim as town. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
The post where he backtracks on DarthPunk and says "oh, he's suspicious since he's not here right now" seems out of place and looks more like a post from mafia trying to play both sides of the argument. also, if he doesn't put a lot of stock in early claims, why does he even care that darthpunk isn't around after claiming? | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
Obvious, point out exactly where I implied that mechanics are more important than behavioral analysis. I haven't made any such statement. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
Look at the amount of times where he calls out a person for inactivity without actually bringing up something specific that he wants to ask them. It looks like someone trying to be seen as promoting discussion without actually doing anything. the last list post where he said three people that would be good lynches looks like a straight fluff post. there's almost nothing in that post that's actually relevant to this game (most of it is just a lazy attempt at "meta") and what little is there isn't even true. He doesn't even say anything about oatsmaster beyond "i'm not sure how to tell if he's mafia. i'll look at his games later". also note the way that obviousone responds to any accusations or suspicion which actually have reasons behind them (not just "oh you scum"). in almost all cases he responds with some irrelevant comment and tries to brush it away. in general this is something that mafia are much more likely to do instead of trying to explain their own actions further. ##Vote ObviousOne | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On May 15 2013 05:04 WaveofShadow wrote: (I am also aware I was not asked.) Hai Hiro! Need moar from you imo. Thoughts on Oats plox? BH you didn't respond to me earlier btw. I'm serious about what I said though I figured at least I'd get a rise out of you if you weren't going to even consider it. my general opinion of oatsmaster is that he posts a lot, doesn't really read much, and just does whatever he feels like. because of this, i just ignore him. i don't find your initial reason for thinking he's mafia all that strong. the very first post he made kind of suggests why he would throw out a vote on you like that. it's not a very good plan, but it's a reason. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On May 15 2013 06:43 VayneAuthority wrote: also not voting for him because of this if he's a fool then he's a fool. but there probably hasn't been a fool on TL as a role in a closed setup for years and even if he was it almost certainly wouldn't end the game. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
i don't know why people still care about activity with me. i haven't been an active poster with large amounts of time to play since the end of last summer and I don't know why people still insist on it as being some kind of sign that I'm mafia. prplhz has some kind of meta read on me. It's bad and lazy. Rockband wasn't a game where I tunneled prplhz, I spent the beginng of day 1 going after Palmar (mafia)/hapahauli(town) and then later shifted onto austinmcc (town) at the end of the day. The game prplhz is thinking about is looney lynching, where the voting system had a nccaa-style bracket and I decided to talk mostly about 1 of the 4 matchups (where prplhz was present). but hey who gives a shit right? must be the same thing. now is focusing on 1 player during day 1 something that I exclusively do as town or as mafia? no it's not; i do it as both alignments depending on the circumstances. in fruity mafia where I was town, I spent of most of my d1 time talking about yamato (mafia) and trying to get him lynched. why? because it was a low-content day 1, where I had very limited time and with a substantial amount of resistance against the yamato lynch and multiple wagons going nowhere. guess what kind of situation this game has? why not mention a bunch of other people who i think could be mafia? because there's not enough to actually get a lynch on them d1 and it only derails the thread further. now of course prplhz only thinks about the game that's 7 or 8 months old instead of taking the time to actually read through any of my recent play. i played in personality 2 as mafia and fruity as town fairly recently, but of course that's not even worth considering. the sad fact of the matter is prplhz is probably town, just simply not willing or lacking the time to actually read the thread and instead spending his time making half-baked meta cases. the only reason i didn't yell at him is because i know that if he's town ace has probably marked some colorful comment on it down in his notes on the game and picturing what it is makes me laugh. i don't play mafia the way that a lot of other people on this forum do. do i sometime acquiesce to other people's playstyles and do stuff like post lists? yea, sometimes I do if I get annoyed or lazy. but the fact of the matter is I don't see any good reason to lynch someone who is probably town just for the sake of getting a lynch. there's nothing wrong with a no-lynch on day 1 if there has actually been some kind of discussion about who to lynch. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On May 15 2013 10:53 Promethelax wrote: Hiro, I appreciate your defense but I honestly don't care about it. if you think your accuser is town what do you gain by taking three paragraphs to tell me he is a lazy idiot? Let it go and tell me about your scum reads. Why OO? Why a NL over OO? because there are actually people who want to lynch me? I've already explained exactly why I want to lynch obvious if you read my filter. I never said that I favored a no-lynch over lynching obvious, i said that i would rather no lynch than lynch vayne or waveofshadow. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On May 16 2013 07:47 Vivax wrote: I have to say that you bother me somewhat, too, upon reading. You talked a lot about coming to the conclusion that prplhz is probably town and what he does is so bad but I hardly see you pushing cases on people since the one on OO. Your whole push against OO looks like a calculated tunnel, your other reads are weird and don't include much reasoning. You don't inquire as much as I would want you to. You don't seem to give updates based on OO's newer play, but keep pointing to an old case. There seems to be very few doubt in your filter. I initially saw your firm opinions as town tell, but since they're becoming too firm on the timeline, they are actually looking like agenda now. I didn't check how my other reads treated you, but you sure are a good candidate for scum just based on that. Answer the question. Where does your confidence in blazinghand come from? | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
In Vivax's posts, I don't see a single reason for thinking that Blazinghand is town. In fact, the only time Vivax ever mentions an opinion on Blazinhand's alignment (before following him) is when he says that BH reminds him more of his mafia play than his play as detective. After that there's never any indication of a reason for thinking BH is town that doesn't have to do with the push on WaveOfShadow. At the same time, when asked why he values BH's ability highly, Vivax can't (or won't) offer up a single reason or example. There is a good reason for mafia to do this kind of play though: avoiding responsibility. The reasons that Vivax gives for WaveOfShadow being mafia are always balanced out by the explanation that he's mostly doing it because BH is so confident and gave a '10'. Mafia are often concerned about negative backlash from a mislynch and Vivax appears to use BH's presence as a way to avoid this danger and instead pin the blame on someone else. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On May 17 2013 03:20 strongandbig wrote: okay so this is the first thing that makes me really wonder about oatsmaster being scum. Let me break it down for you guys: there are three possibilities here:
I consider the first of these options extremely unlikely; much less likely than either of the other two. First, votesteal is almost a useless power for townies; and it's very weird that someone would've used it D1. So let's say that oats's vote was stolen by scum; why didn't they use it to hammer OO? If he's town, it's free KP for them. Conclusion: he's scum. On the other hand, we have the case where oat's vote wasn't stolen by scum or town. Well, clearly his vote didn't count yesterday? If his vote wasn't stolen, then that would have to mean that his vote was canceled for some other reason. By far the most likely case where that happens is the case where he's scum - there's a clear scum motivation for having your vote not count. You can jump on your teammates' bandwagons all you want; you can ignore attacks on your voting record by just saying "oh my vote was stolen"; and it makes you look townie if you can persuade people that your vote was stolen by the scum team. So, I think we have a pretty good choice here. Between OO and Oats, I think we have a scum. there's nothing about the politician that says they have to be mafia. it's entirely possible that they're town - i can think of at least two games that I've played in with a town politician. second, the deadline is at such a unusual time that even if the politician was mafia and obviousone was town, they simply might not have been around to move it from me to obvious. then there are some people in this game who seem to believe that it's better to lynch someone that's town than to have a no-lynch on d1, a mafia politician like that might even think it's a good idea to leave a town player alive. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On May 17 2013 03:59 strongandbig wrote: okay this then essay (1) yes its possible that there is a town politician, its also unlikely. then, if the politician is town, its also unlikely that they would use their power on D1, since that pretty much only hurts town. two unlikely situations -> yes it's possible but i'm comfortable discounting it unless someone claims compulsive town politician or something. (2) if mafia had a stolen vote, i think it's pretty likely that at least one of them would have been around for deadline, or that they would've sent a conditional pm to ace, or something. possible, but much less likely than that either oo or oats is scum. (3) i talked about the mafia maybe wanting a no lynch thing above, i also think that's improbable. you have to remember, we already have compelling reasons for thinking either or both of oo/oats are scum, the votesteal thing is just the icing on the cake we'll see, but i'm not really convinced. also, ace would very likely not be ok with "(2)": First and foremost if you signed up for this game, there was a clear warning to read Death Factory Mafia 1. You know this is a real time game. As with every game of Mafia if you aren't around there is nothing to be done. Tough shit. The nature of this game doesn't change that as games with Day kills and Majority Lynch work the same way. There was also another issue I should mention. My name is not Ver. My name is not Incognito. I don't know what they did to allow Mafia players to send in PMs for their buddies and use their powers in other games. I don't give a shit. I'm Ace. I very rarely allow players to use INDIVIDUAL Scum Powers as a group. That's pretty ridiculous as in a real time game if any of the 5 Scum players are online they can just willy nilly screw shit up. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
Voting for Viscera because: - the early WaveOfShadow vote looks artificial ("Abnormally high ratio of gif/pics"), this has nothing to do with alignment - he constantly emphasizes early on that Obvious is lurky and lacks skill as mafia and then somehow reaches the conclusion that it's entirely possible for obvious to be a good mafia player. - The assertion that the townie thing for obvious to do was to self-vote and suicide is complete nonsense and seems made up. ##Vote VisceraEyes | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On May 17 2013 09:25 kushm4sta wrote: But in regards to WoS, people need to realize he spams as scum. So spamming doesn't make him town. What are you referring to? | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
the one-liners that viscera has a problem with: I pointed out shirokami because I thought he was going unnoticed, he was reasonably active but hadn't said a single thing that I would consider useful or particularly alignment-indicative and almost no one had mentioned his name. essentially, he was hiding in plain sight. viscera's push on vayne struck me as odd at that point since he hadn't really offered up much of a reason to vote for vayne and was the only person voting for vayne yet somehow still wasn't willing to change targets. I asked strongandbig what he thought about lynching obviousone since we needed more people in order to get a lynch and he hadn't said anything about him. the point about town/scum brushing off points against them. I'm not talking about someone ignoring something said about them, I'm well aware that townies often do this. What struck me as odd about obviousone was that he seemed slightly nervous when people said things about him and made it a point to try to turn it into a joke (which I felt also seemed kind of forced), but didn't actually do anything to assuage those concerns. Generally speaking, I would expect most town players to either outright ignore something or try to respond meaningfully. the post I made about vivax: I never said that I found vivax suspicious for "provided his own reasoning for being on WoS, and it's a perfectly townie response to think that people who agree with you are town.". What I found odd was that vivax's major reason for voting for WaveOfShadow wasn't that he came to the conclusion on his own: it was that BH was confident in WoS being mafia (and Vivax never indicated much of a town read on BH and instead seemed to imply that his read on BH would depend on what WoS flipped). to be perfectly honest, I don't actually see why people think that Viscera is town all of a sudden. I don't think any of the posts he's made since are particularly townie; they just simply show that he's devoting a little more time into the game than before. But I'm more interested in lynching someone else anyway, so it doesn't really matter too much. I'll try to explain in my next post why you should lynch this person. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
If you look at day 2, what have been the major lynches of the day? The first is the push onto VisceraEyes and the second is the lynch attempt on me. Almost every player has either made a vote onto one of these lynches or voiced their opinions about the two of us. Blazinghand though has been active during this time period, has been asked numerous times to comment on what he thinks of me, yet hasn't made a single comment on whether VisceraEyes or myself are mafia/town. I can't think of a single town reason to avoid this issue, yet I can think of several reasons that a mafia player might do this: he doesn't want to offer up opinions because he's afraid of being wrong or defending a teammate, he would rather see another no-lynch as people are unable to consolidate, he's waiting to see which person will be lynched and then jump on at the last second. My next problem with Blazinghand is that he seems willing to ignore the major events that occur around him and instead focuses on relatively minor things. Discarding the "10/10" WaveOfShadow lynch for ObviousOne because he martyred and then later indicated that he was willing to live is a small example. The bigger one though is what has happened today between himself and prplhz. Depending on what the KP formula is, we're looking at a MYLO/LYLO situation here. Every town player should be trying to find the best possible lynch. Yet Blazinghand has seemingly decided to go after prplhz on psuedo-policy reasons. This comment in particular seems completely off: "Show me where he does this as scum OR tell me you have a red check on him OR tell me this is a policy lynch." Why on earth would prplhz saying that he's policy lynching kushm4sta make it an acceptable push when BH apparently feels that no case on kushm4sta is acceptable without showing that he does that behavior as mafia? This isn't day 1, we're not in a situation where policy lynches are feasible or good, so why would Blazinghand be ok with that as town? The simple answer is that Blazinghand has an easy reason to vote for someone as mafia. This isn't even considering the fact that declaring that someone can only be lynched if you can prove that they've done this exact same thing as mafia before is a completely ludicrous statement. I think BH has the best chance of flipping mafia today, so everyone should vote for him. ##Unvote ##Vote Blazinghand | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
if you think that blazinghand is mafia, just vote for him. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
do you think I find it fun to read garbage like "I'm liking the Play from VE today and hiro scum slipped. Points to the first person to find it." and watch people actually follow those instructions. I don't even have a clue what Promethelax's alignment is, since he posts a lot, but then just makes these posts that ramble on about every different thing in thread, makes these really unsubstantiated points using "meta", and pushes cases for no real discernible reason that I can see. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
why did blazinghand come in to say that this is a hideously bad lynch but not actually make any effort to stop it? like he didn't even give a single reason. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
understood sir, carry on. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
##Unvote ##Vote Promethelax | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
but idk, don't ask me. i can't think right now. i'll be fine tomorrow when i can sleep some, but right now I'm out of it. ##Unvote ##Vote Blazinghand | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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HiroPro
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