Hydra Mini Mafia II - Extra Nuke Edition

On April 13 2013 23:28 SamuelLJackson wrote:

How is this relevant to your interests right now? Do you otherwise find his play suspicious? I'm not wasting time explaining things that have been discussed repeatedly. He isn't "confirmed", but due to the exchange between him and dandel he is very likely to be town and shouldn't be someone who you should worry about right now.

On April 13 2013 23:35 MockArmor wrote:

The question should not be addressed to Mocsta.

Regardless; I have been content with the posting of my partner..

I also believe the post you have chosen to bring attention is, contains a valid opinion of thread sentiment.

Rather, I think it is you, who is choosing to elucidate matters of the minutiae to the fore.

On April 13 2013 23:38 FiveTouch wrote:


I'd appreciate it if you stopped talking nonsense. Go back and read what SLJ said about the nuke and the host reaction, and realise that what you're saying is pretty likely to not be true.

Please also explain why it made VE's response 'even more suspicious' because I don't see anything of the sort. Looks like you're trying to make something out of nothing to me.

~marv

On April 13 2013 23:47 MockArmor wrote:

That answer was clearly written by Mocsta.

As is this response.

What is your point?

Are you suggesting that I am able to elucidate the inate thoughts of GoodKarma at the time of writing?

What i do know is that the post in question, shared the same sentiments I felt at the time.
The thread was too spammy; too crazy; and too emotional.

On April 13 2013 23:47 MockArmor wrote:

That answer was clearly written by Mocsta.

As is this response.

What is your point?

Are you suggesting that I am able to elucidate the inate thoughts of GoodKarma at the time of writing?

What i do know is that the post in question, shared the same sentiments I felt at the time.
The thread was too spammy; too crazy; and too emotional.

On April 13 2013 23:57 FiveTouch wrote:
rayn, I want a properly explained answer of why this from VE:



makes you think he's scummier than if it were me, or indeed scummy at all. I want to know exactly why, so far you keep dancing around the subject and I can't understand your viewpoint at all.

~marv

On April 13 2013 23:57 MockArmor wrote:

My (Mocsta) first post in the game; was the response to Syllo that you questioned me about.

As I said, I can't tell you what GK had running in his mind at the time.

All i can comment is that I agreed with his perception on thread sentiment.

On April 14 2013 00:02 MockArmor wrote:
Yes, we have reads.

To expand on Hapa: We don't perceive him as scum; nor an entity to invest further time into this cycle.

+ Show Spoiler +

On April 14 2013 00:08 MockArmor wrote:

I didnt know a vote was on Hapa lol.

##Unvote

Will give scumreads in due course young grass-hopper.
This is still round 1, and everyone is jabbing to determine distances.
When we want to launch the combination followed by uppercut; trust me. You will be the first to know.

On April 14 2013 00:05 FiveTouch wrote:
How is what VE wrote any indication of panic in any way?

~marv

And for the record, i did not know Oats was around now. He posted and focused on entirely different things than i did. I asked him about marv/VE in our QT because he has far more meta on people than i do.

On April 14 2013 00:17 ShotgunBiceps wrote:
raynmaster mind sharing your reads? Your only read so far seems to be that you think my partner is scummy because he did something stupid. Care to expound on that?

On April 14 2013 00:22 ShotgunBiceps wrote:
So you don't have any other reads?

On April 14 2013 00:26 ShotgunBiceps wrote:
Just trying to get read on you and your stances help on that. What in Mocsta catches your eye, and is it only Mocsta or the hole hydra?

On April 14 2013 00:37 MockArmor wrote:

Walk me through in particular why that is scummy.

Walk me through why a townie would not choose to give out scumreads 12hrs into the game.

+ answer the outstanding question I have directed to you.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406683&currentpage=29#566

On April 14 2013 00:50 MockArmor wrote:
I will give out scum read(s) by declaring by means of a vote/case/comment etc when I feel it is appropiate.
Certainly not only because it was requested.



I must admit, that I think continuing exploring this conversation is of merit however.

Thus, I am still awaiting feedback to my questions.

On April 14 2013 01:05 MockArmor wrote:
The point was:

• I answered all of Raynmasters questions in its entirety, &
  
• I am still awaiting feedback to my simple and straight-forward question - now questions

Namely,
Question 1
&
Question 2

---

I admit you (Oats) gave half a response to question 2. But unfornately its still only half a response. And further, I didn't realise Raynpelikoneet needed a "patsy" to speak on his behalf.

On April 14 2013 01:13 WaveOfCheesecake wrote:

Rayn: That's Mocsta for you.

On April 14 2013 00:40 raynmaster wrote:

Dude, its like 18 hours, almost 24.
Because then you are not taking a stand on anything and you dont have any hard statments that you have to make regarding a person's alignment. Like you can always say, NO NO I DIDNT THINK HE WAS SCUM, I DIDNT SAY THAT. So make a stand, put out your reads.

I have no idea why you dont want to give out SCUMREADS at all.

On April 14 2013 01:43 MockArmor wrote:

Town does not need to be forthcoming with reads. Town chooses to be forthcoming, assuming it equates to transparency, and thus, establishing innocence.
What town needs to do is scum hunt; and that is precisely why I did not want to give out reads at the point in time.

Why?

---

(1) The thread is full of loose/emotional comments being thrown around.
--------------
(2) Instead of giving out meaningless "reads"; I would rather enter discourse with my reads to discern their alignment.

---

Anywho, I think you (Oats) and I are done with conversation.

I await Raynpelikoneets response to my outstanding questions.

On April 14 2013 02:41 SamuelLJackson wrote:
FondleMyButtocks looks suspicious. His bigger posts look constructed rather than free flowing and he isn't doing anything with his few other posts. Going after Vivax/kush hydra is fine, but his reasons look forced to me.


It's not "soft calling" when you throw your vote down and stupid does not equal mafia. It was a short, semi serious early game vote post with only one justification. Not at all an "over justification", there was only one reason for the vote.

His other reasons for finding vivax420 suspicious look similarly manufactured. The way he words his case and frames vivax420's posts overall does not feel genuine and open-minded (e.g. "supposed to be 420's concise thoughts", "even gives us a lynchable list"). The random comment about wanting to "almost" lynch GK for tradition's sake also looks like kind of fluff mafia likes to add to their post.

Phagga are you going to write that mockarmor case?

On April 14 2013 16:10 John Matrix wrote:


You think it was scummy?

On April 14 2013 16:23 WaveOfCheesecake wrote:
Oats at some point during the night I'd like to hear your thoughts regarding MA and/or my case. In your own time though 'cause I won't be around.

Devil's advocate on your suspicion towards Palmar's post; as scum why put in that kind of effort just to make it look like you're contributing with a summary post, when summary posts are known to be inherently useless?

On April 14 2013 18:10 SamuelLJackson wrote:

His singular fixation on waveofcheese is a bit suspicious and I don't like how he made a brief remark about agreeing with me on FMB, but then diverted all his attention towards WoC.. Other than that he looks better now and I don't think he is a good lynch today. He has been quite active and the tone seems confident.

On April 14 2013 18:27 SamuelLJackson wrote:

Why don't you tell me yours? I'm not interested in answering your questions. They don't even make sense; it's very difficult to explain why someone looks "better" and it's not relevant at all. I already gave reasons for not considering mockarmor a priority today and that's all you need to know.

On April 14 2013 00:20 raynmaster wrote:

Town Hapa isnt stupid hapa. Push on VE off a JOKE was so fucking dumb its scummy. You see in Newbie 30~, my scum partner did the same thing, pushed a dude off a joke. Also happened other times that I recall but not all that well.
The worse part is that Hapa KNOWS VE, and for him to push it, yeah thats bad.

Hydra names in sig please, brain not enough capacity to remember.

On April 14 2013 19:43 John Matrix wrote:

That is not a read post. You are not clearly defining a read stating why and pushing his lynch. That, like a lot of your posts on different players, is just trashing Hapa. Not committing yourself to a position is a clear theme in your filter and is scummy.

Furthermore the fact that THIS is the post that you pull from your filter to prove you are making reads/ taking stances. Just proves how much you are, in fact, not.

On April 14 2013 20:04 DarthPunk wrote:


In that post again you were ASKED what your reads were (because they are fucking non existent) with a question stating that hapa seemed to be your only 'read'. Then you trashed hapa. That is not good enough and is scummy. You are not pushing cases or candidates, your scum hunting doesn't exist and if in fact you think the WHOLE TOWN IS SCUMMY then why is it so difficult for you to make reads or cases and why are the only 'reads' we get useless shit that only occurs when prompted?

-DP

On April 14 2013 20:02 MockArmor wrote:
I am still waiting for specifically what is your problem. It has been expressed quite clearly where our transition of thought with Hapa occurred. You are the one who has made no effort to quantify your question in a manner which will elicit the response you ?seek?.

This is plain silly, and indicative of someone making a lazy read by request.
I came into the thread, saying how shit it is. People were too emotional; and too spammy. So, you are calling me scum for trying to bring the thread back to a modicum of decency. Is that correct?
Further, my lines of questions, whether to Rayn, yourself, or whoever; clearly indicate a mindset attempting to figure out alignments.

So you have elucidated that Mocsta, whether town or scum, is more than capable of being "loud". Considering none of the examples above correlate with a "serious" Mocsta; where is the connection for this to be scum. Why are you trying so hard to meld together "tells" as purely indicative of scum; and not actually trying to devine a genuine alignment - that considers town or scum motivation?

This is already debunked by my response above; as you immediately jump to a scum conclusion.

One fact you seem to not have incorporated in any of your heuristics is that this game is a HYDRA.
Thus, I, nor many of the others will be posting to our prototypical meta.
We have someone else to bounce our reads off / discuss thread sentiment etc. This *should* allow for a much more levle-headed, critical thinking playstyle.

The items you accuse me of above; in which you instantly force yourself to scum conclusions. Ironically I believe point out a mindset much more indicative of tonie rationalisation and thought.

Whilst I appreciate the effort to take acountability.
This "case" is extremely weak; and does not read with the conviction of someone who has critically thought about the player in question.

CC; I still wait your feedback on Raynmaster.

On April 14 2013 20:09 FiveTouch wrote:


Er... can we have some, like, clarity on who is being called what? I had assumed I/VE were being referred to as "Touchey" and the like, but apparently this is referring to FondleMyButtocks. Cue me wasting my time to see if our filter contained anything to do with syllo's reads on me because that made no sense to me.

Anyways, rayn seems to be a pretty hot topic at the moment. I got a kinda townie feeling from him with his stupid/dumb read of being suspicious of VE's reaction to the 'nuke'. I pressed him on it a few times, and it felt like he was legitimately trying to explain it to me rather than just saying it for the sake of saying it, even though it's nonsense.

~marv

On April 14 2013 20:13 MockArmor wrote:

Im curious about how this conclusion was derived.

Im not going to argue you about WoC trying to ascertain MA alignment. - That is your opinion.

But I would like to know why you are confident stating I was not trying to ascertain WoC alignment.

Your last sentence, gives me the impression you concur with WoC meta on me; whereby, serious Mocsta indicates scum. Correct?

On April 14 2013 21:05 John Matrix wrote:


Yep. But I didn't have any scum reads until now. You have stated that EVERYONE IS SCUMMY and yet postno cases or reads.

Also you have spread suspicion/ trashed a whole lot of posts yet haven;t taken a position. THAT is scummy.

Oh. And i don't feel like talking to you about this anymore. I don;t want the thread to become even more of a mess than yourself and Mocarmor are already creating.

On April 14 2013 21:15 John Matrix wrote:


You only started arguing with Mockarma AFTER I called you out for not pushing anything. The basis of your 'push' on MA before my case was this:



After my case you correct your behavior and then try to use that behavior to discredit the case?

Fucking NO.

On April 14 2013 21:45 MockArmor wrote:
I was never requested for my reads.

You asked.. Do i have reads. I said yes I do.

You then asked me to update the MA read on Hapa, which I happily obliged.

The questions were answered in its entirety.

Stop shitting up the thread; your counterpart asked a stupid question, and got a stupid answer.

I will give out my reads when I want to. Syllo gave a similar response earlier, and you didnt try to lambaste him for it.

P.S. Im still waiting for Raynpelikoneet to respond to my questions from last night.

On April 14 2013 21:42 John Matrix wrote:
The post he is referencing



Is indicative of everything I was talking about in my case. If he wants to know what i mean he can read it again.

-DP

On April 14 2013 21:58 John Matrix wrote:




19 hours later.







Cool story bro.

On April 14 2013 22:21 John Matrix wrote:


You say you there is no reason to withhold reads. You then state ambigously taht you have some town reads and offer nothing further, withholding them.

19 hours later you say the whole town is scummy aside from marv as n afterthought, even though you had previously withheld multiple town reads.

On April 14 2013 22:26 John Matrix wrote:


How do you go from 'I have some town reads' to 'EVERYONE IS SCUMMY' in 19 hours?

On April 14 2013 22:58 John Matrix wrote:


So you have positions that you can't explain. So scummy dude.

On April 14 2013 00:26 MockArmor wrote:

No it doesn't explain the situation at all.

For brevity once more
+ Show Spoiler +

Let us re-cap the situation thus far:

• You have gone out of your way to "contribute" on live thread matters
  
• You then avoid accountability by having to refer back to your QT partner
  
• Your reasoning: Oats has far better meta understanding than I

Now, let me crystalize for you what I am thinking.

---

If you are incapable of contributing to the thread, due to weak meta history; or, needing to reference with your partner in general.
Why post in the first place?

---

Before trying to bullshit me: keep in mind, I was scum in the last Hydra game.
Henceforth why I agreed in full with the Syllo quote, which I will post for you one more time.

P.S. Im not quoting this post, because Syllo saying it makes it valid.
Im quoting it because he said it in better words than I.

On April 14 2013 23:34 MockArmor wrote:
raynpeli
No I'm accusing you of trying to contribute in the thread without providing accountability. This is because your entire dialogue with your "scum read" is subject to change pending on discussion with oats.

That's bullshit. Full stop.

Further, the exchange with *your/raynpeli* scum read, five touch. Does not even read as if you are talking to someone you are suspicious of.

Thirdly. Let's pretend you were genuinely suspicious of five touch. Why the need to consult with oats regarding your scum read. You should be engaging and probing fiveotuch as much as you can. Instead you are reaponding to questions he asking of you. In addition to hiding all accountability behind oats.

This is scummy shit, and again the whole exchange does not read to me as if you are talking to a scum read.

On April 15 2013 01:24 FiveTouch wrote:
I'm back. rayn you're gonna have to explain your suspicion of me. You say I panicked when Palmar shot off the nuke. I'd like to know why you think so, and why that indicates that I'm scum to you.

I'll tell you that the reason I said "Lynch them if that's real" was that anyone who insta-shoot a real nuke with no discussion is scummy as fuck. If we had gotten a host notification that the nuke was real, my vote would have INSTANTLY gone to JM, because by my estimation if Palmar/DP shot a nuke like that, it meant they were scum.

Now, I'm curious to know why you think I panicked when the shot went off, because I think I reacted fairly well considering I had an inherent fear of being insta-nuked anyway because Draz is in the game. XD But even if you think I panicked, why does that indicate that I'm scum? Would a townie who is told that a nuke is heading his way not "panic" as well? I just can't understand the reasoning for your assertions.

Oh, and I'm back bitches. Scum, panic because I'm not hungover.

On April 13 2013 15:56 ShotgunBiceps wrote:
Haven't read much any of Vivax's games, care to give me some examples where who does this?