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On April 05 2013 08:55 sciberbia wrote: Hi everyone! I can't wait to get started. This player list is awesome. I say we lynch you on day one. How would you like that? ##Vote sciberbia | ||
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On April 05 2013 09:07 sciberbia wrote: Getting lynched makes it less likely that my win condition is fulfilled, so I'm opposed to your idea of lynching me. Palmar, do you think that longer days are in general a boon to town (as opposed to shorter days)? It seems to me like the optimal town strategy in this setup is to take like a week on each lynch (or longer). Logically, the more filter you have to go through, the easier it is to get an accurate read on somebody. The only downside is that people will at some point lose interest. But I think in general the longer the day the better. What say you? No randomly creating wagons and killing people is much more fun. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17284265 <--- here I think we have a winner. | ||
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On April 05 2013 09:21 WaveofShadow wrote: Phew. Real happy I rolled town this time around; I feel really bad for whoever is on my scumteam when I roll mafia for the first time. most towns are pretty adamant about lynching liars, and claiming the wrong alignment is a pretty blatant lie. I don't think he's scum based on this. | ||
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On April 05 2013 09:56 marvellosity wrote: Seriousception. I was somewhat serious yes. It's curious you gave a serious answer to me about voting Ace, when my vote for him was predicated on the zero posts that he'd made so far in the game. For whatever reason you felt compelled to give me a proper reason for not voting for him, and I'm not entirely sure why. I was 'expecting' you to be like "oh yeah let's lynch Ace", although maybe I should have given better reasons... First of all, I'm a lead troll, not a follow troll. Second, I'm surprised you don't remember I tried to lynch Bugs in some game a while back based on exactly the same notion, making my statement in this game ridiculous, and thus not serious at all. Wonder why you took it that way? | ||
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On April 05 2013 09:59 marvellosity wrote: Fairly easily explained by the fact that I don't remember that's why you said you wanted to lynch bugs. yeah but still, I'd have thought you'd know me well enough to realize that I was hardly going to give a serious answer to a non-serious vote unless it was some ridiculous meta-trolling. Whatever though, carry on. | ||
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On April 05 2013 10:11 prplhz wrote: meta that marv palmar's gonna get it wrong because he's always wrong about me I distinctly remember hard defending a few times (steamship?) when you were town. But that was before you stopped trying on day 1. | ||
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##FoS Ace I'll be watching you careful or I might PUT A VOTE ON YOU | ||
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On April 05 2013 10:45 prplhz wrote: "HEY I GOT YOU RIGHT THAT ONE TIME TWO YEARS AGO" well soon after that you became too cool to actually do anything on the only day of mafia I'm actually decent at, so what the fuck do you expect? | ||
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On April 05 2013 13:49 AxleGreaser wrote: @Palmar I am curious. I don't yet have any meta on you apart from memory... Can you direct me to any game in which you ##FOS a player? Id like to see under what conditions you normally do that? ##Fos Palmar I'll be watching you (but doing other things) I'd suggest you be careful or I might put vote on you... except that you'd just ignore that, hence it would be pointless but its the questions I ask that are the problem. Going to be nice cause I think you're hilarious. That post is clearly a troll post, anyone who knows me knows I absolutely despise any kind of warning play and soft pushing. It's terrible. I made the post in response to iamperfection's genuinely terrible post above. | ||
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@marv: on a scale of 1-10 how certain are you that I'm town? @Oats: go yell at someone please. | ||
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On April 05 2013 19:21 AxleGreaser wrote: So "soft pushing. It's terrible." ok got that. (I assume that means somewhat indicative of scumminess.) Your post (indirectly to Iamp), by parodying Iamps pushing, by yourself pushing Ace Softly... that is you trolling, and that is not you pushing Iamp softly because you hate that? So if I see someone else do that they 'are terrible' and when you do its trolling... When I grow up I want meta just like yours. Oh, I think your hilarious too, but it has little impact on whether I think you are scum ... You telling me however that you are going to be nice... That's you trolling again right? but I dont remember anyone else buddying in thread recently I cannot be pushing Ace softly when it is clear to (almost) everyone the post is a joke. I could see if you have never played with me however why you'd think I was pushing iamp, but you have to understand that to me there is a clear distinction between bad (terrible) play and scummy play. I am as of now undecided how I feel about iamp, I went back and looked at yet another normal mini and did not find any answers to his alignment this game there. In the same way, me thinking you're hilarious or deciding to take the time to explain shit to you does not mean I have a townread on you. So no, I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely going out of my way to explain a joke. It just doesn't mean much. | ||
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On April 05 2013 20:27 marvellosity wrote: I have a slight townread on you, dunno how that translates into 1-10. Looks like I'm not gonna get Ace lynched today... *serious hat* ##Unvote The fact the townread isn't stronger worries me slightly, I'd have expected you to know for sure I'm town by now. But I guess I can just stick that into my bag of worry about it later things along with what happened yesterday. Can you just confirm yourself one alignment or the other to bear me the annoyance of having to find out? | ||
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Nothing in Ace's filter points to him being scum. I'll give you that nothing points to him being town either. He's simply not playing the game at the moment, same can be said about tunkeg and sciberbia. Sure, if you want to lynch lurkers be my guest, but man, it feels really off how much you want this lynch to happen. | ||
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##vote iamperfection | ||
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you're* your doesn't even make any sense when I translate it. | ||
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marv: strange things, but seems to be at least trying. I don't think I'll push for his day 1 lynch, but it's annoying that he doesn't just start saying shit that matters and maybe be more useful. I've noted to self/thread twice that he has said things I would not entirely expect of him, but neither makes him definite scum. see here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168¤tpage=6#119 and here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168¤tpage=13#257 Ace: complete and utter null, he's a good lynch but doesn't need to be discussed until we're closing in on the lynch. If we default to a lurker from where we are now it's a toss-up between him and Tunkeg, and I think I'd rather kill Ace. Nothing in Ace's filter says anything about his alignment (good or bad). iamperfection: I really don't know, he seemed genuinely mad that I'm poking him, but his ridiculous zeal in what is essentially a perfectly safe lurker lynch still raises some bells for me. I don't know really. sciberbia: made a generic post and hasn't said anything ever since. I might be willing to lynch this guy based on what has happened in the game so far and if I had to make a decision right now. Tunkeg: lurker, nothing to say. Axlegreaser: I can't read these kind of people, so i'll mostly leave it to others. I'd say leaning town, but honestly I'm terrible at telling what strange posters are up to, I ignore Chez every game I play with him, and while Axle is more coherent than that, I really don't know. prplhz: being his useless self on day 1. He did reach the same conclusion about iamperfection's push on Ace, and he did it before me, I think. DP: NOT READING YOUR POSTS LOL reyn: I don't know this guy well enough yet, so I'll just paint him tentative town right now for calling me bad. he's spamming in a very useless way. But at least he's spamming Oats: NOT READING YOUR SHIT EITHER WoS: his last post here was slightly more townie than everything else he's said. He too is not a bad day 1 lynch I think. I need to hear more from this guy and I know literally nothing about him. His "glad I rolled town" seems sooo fake, but then again, it's so awful that it's hard to think mafia would be stupid enough to do it. Whatever, leaning scum, I guess... | ||
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On April 06 2013 00:29 marvellosity wrote: Palmar, answer me this: why do you think I should find you townier here than in Red Team? Well you shouldn't, in red team I was like confirmed town from 10 minutes into the game. Here I should be "strong town read", not confirmed, but strong. | ||
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On April 06 2013 00:24 Oatsmaster wrote: Im hurt Palmar </3 What is this 'not bad day 1 lynch' What is the criteria for 'day 1 lynch'? Why does day 1 differ from day 2/3/4? today is day 1, thus I don't see why I would discuss day 2 lynches now. We should be discussing day 1 lynches, right? | ||
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WoS keeps repeatedly saying little things that make me just go... uggghghhhh scum. Rayn is an asshole but I don't know if he's scum, his style is annoying and useless which is a good thing if he happens to roll scum as scum like being annoying and useless. I don't think much can be read into prplhz yet. I'll make a decision sometime today. | ||
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##Vote Sciberbia I think this is the direction I want to go in. | ||
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I already thought he didn't look very good, then I very much did not like his big post on Oats/Iamp. Maybe I'm insane here, but I really don't think it's reasonable to push oats at the moment. Also sciberbia has a few of those indirect question things I don't really like, I mentioned it in my first post against him, this validation seeking thing. | ||
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On April 05 2013 09:21 WaveofShadow wrote: Phew. Real happy I rolled town this time around; I feel really bad for whoever is on my scumteam when I roll mafia for the first time. On April 06 2013 10:05 WaveofShadow wrote: Also Rayn what the actual fuck? You absolutely shit up the thread for a day enough so everyone wants to ignore you for the rest of the game? Is that it? Can you DO something please? On April 06 2013 01:17 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh hai guise. Just finished an exam, did well on another and I'm feelin' gooooooooood. SO whass all this I come back to? Errrboddy got a scum read on me yet nobody wants to throw a vote over this way, huh? K. Hai Oats. It's a pleasure to be in a game with you finally. But no, I think I'd rather lynch sciberbia, WoS's later posts aren't as bad and I just have this feeling scib is the better lynch. | ||
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On April 06 2013 19:53 Tunkeg wrote: I actually think sciberbias Oats/iamp post is his best in this game. It might be because I agree with the overall point of his post, iamp being greener and oats being redder. I also fail to see the overall scumplot in his play. iamp doesn't look too bad honestly. But I don't think Oats does either. | ||
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On April 06 2013 19:54 marvellosity wrote: I think I'll get more support for this lynch, so whatever ![]() that's what scares me. | ||
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On April 06 2013 19:59 marvellosity wrote: You should be seeing me as pretty strong town by now. Just saying. it's just a numbers game. I can't recall anyone not liking a WoS lynch. also I don't understand if there's a connection why sciberbia cannot be the first one to go? | ||
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But because he's always awful there is no reason to think that him being awful here means he's scum. | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote WaveOfShadow To be honest most of my reservations lynching him have simply been how many people called him out, sciberbia seems like the harder lynch. But ok, let's do this, murder him. | ||
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who we lynch? | ||
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Based on his response to a traumatic near death experience I don't think we should lynch WoS today. ##Vote sciberbia I am going back to my initial read. I want to add in that something about his defense of WoS just looks strange to me. | ||
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So yes, it makes absolute sense to unvote WoS given the information I have. | ||
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##vote marvellosity | ||
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simply because marv has probably gone to sleep and I'm going to sleep too. | ||
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I hate these long days, my gut is far better at mafia than my brain. | ||
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On April 08 2013 00:06 Oatsmaster wrote: vote someone now please marv. Marv with no suspicions makes unhappy Oats. that's so stupid oats is probably town. let's just lynch Ace for the hell of it ##Vote Ace | ||
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Also, write me a list of 5 town reads. Use at least two one sentence to justify your read. | ||
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On April 08 2013 02:24 Ace wrote: I don't know how close you are to being shot by a vigilante if one exists in this setup, but you're definetly pushing it. unless the vigilante is stupid and/or you, I'm not worried. Pretty much everyone in the game thinks I'm town because I'm actually just playing like town. Even if my reads are somewhat in the air at the moment, I don't think anyone is going to lynch me on day 1. so, which category is mine Ace? Priority 0: Shoot liars. Some players still try and spin these stupid fairy tales saying that lying helps the town. They also believe Voldemort is real. Don't listen to them. Without going in depth about why lying is bad just follow this statement - SHOOT first. There are very few instances where lying benefits the town. Even then it usually ends up benefiting the Mafia much more. When players sign up for a game in which they know multiple people playing aren't stupid enough to let all their lies go unpunished they have to step their game up considerably. Look at all the terrible games that are littered around this forum. You want to know a recurring theme? Townies lying trying to make a hero play, and then Scum lying since that is now the temporary "way to look town". Shoot before it hits LYLO with 3 people that have roles that can't be confirmed. In fact shoot them because when a player lies about being a Cop and the real Cop gets night killed or lynched the game is essentially over. DONT LET IT GET TO THIS POINT. EVER. Nothing sucks more than an end game scenario with tons of WIFOM. Priority 1: Shoot people that are talking nonsense. Activity doesn't make someone pro-town. You shoot people that are saying one thing but doing another. This goes especially for people using meta arguments that do things scummy regardless of alignment. Shoot them Night 1 if the rules allow it. Along with this shoot players that will help untie clashing role claims, or clashing scenarios. If you're in a situation where the death of one player confirms something about another, shoot. Most players are braindead anyway and this is one of the few times where it helps to take matters into your own hands. Priority 2: Shoot lurkers This is almost a priority 0 but people that play Scummy are always best shot first. However, shooting lurkers establishes an awesome town meta. If people know other players won't stand for their inactivity, and the threat of a modkill leads to a ban they wont sign up. Likewise like I said in countless mafia games in the past: people that are defending themselves are much more likely to be valuable than people that don't. So shoot the people that lurk when called out all the time, and shoot the people that won't contribute after repeated prodding. They are USELESS to the town - kill them before it hits LYLO. You'll be sorry if it does. | ||
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DP looks pretty towny iamperfection looks pretty towny I really liked Tunkeg's case so I guess I'll say he's town for now Axle to me looks quite towny I'm town. This now leaves a 7 player pool I'm considering trying to lynch. sciberbia WoS Ace Marv prplhz Oats slotmachinedude Does anyone think it's unlikely that 2-3 scum are in this list? | ||
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Also I'm curious to know, do you think I'm mafia or town? | ||
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On April 08 2013 02:57 marvellosity wrote: If you can't read me properly by now, I see little reason to dance to your tune. I also want this to help me decide. But whatever. When in doubt go with my original gut read. ##vote sciberbia | ||
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Ace is a possibility. How much did you agree with my seperation between townies and scum? | ||
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On April 08 2013 04:23 prplhz wrote: don't you know that you're almost always wrong on your initial d1 read? yes I do. But what's the alternative? I don't think Ace/Marv are scum together. After your recent contributions it's less likely you're scum. I don't think sciberbia is scum with waveofshadow, and reyn has seemed to be perfectly fine lynching both of them. Sure, bussing is an option. Ace has attacked oats, but I'm also unsure oats is scum. So one of ace/marv is scum, one of wos/sciberbia is scum, and the last scum can be just about anyone? That's about as much as I can gather from what has happened today. I really don't know and sciberbia seems somewhat distant and uninterested, I also still put massive question marks to his defense of WoS. So yes, I'm completely unsure about this one, but it's better than anything else I can think of. My second option would be to almost rng between Ace and Marv. | ||
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Anyway I do agree Ace spent a lot of time this game obsessing about stuff I found irrelevant or stupid. But again, the no-hammer on WoS is still bothering me. @marv you've just said a few things that I did not expect you to say, thus I can't help but feel there is a chance something is off. But maybe there isn't something off, and reducing the pool would be quite helpful. I'll talk more later. | ||
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##Vote Ace Okay let's do this. Also if we lynch him he's a liar and we must lynch all liars, since he said this town wouldn't lynch a veteran player. And finally there are multiple things I find strange about him, just nothing I can say is conclusively scummy. But he is focusing on silly secret tactics, not giving much opinion on who to lynch or trying to push his lynch. He is not attempting to take any kind of a leadership role, and wanting to rather just weigh in here and there. If I hadn't seen Ace be a useless shit at town before I'd call him scum, but I'm not sure. whatever #yolo let's kill ace. | ||
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On April 08 2013 06:45 marvellosity wrote: I can provide you with some links where I was atrocious as town if you like ![]() I'll take a better look at Axle since you ask nicely. And by the way, there's *always* mafia motivation in slinging shit at strong townies. More to the point, there's no point in him flinging shit at Palmar like that if he's town. to be fair he'd probably do it as either alignment. Ace has very strong and sometimes strange ideas on how to play the game. But alas, Ace is a good lynch. I have at no point thought "oh he's probably town" which I've thought about almost every other player in the game (so obviously I'm wrong on some). | ||
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On April 08 2013 06:50 DarthPunk wrote: Why won't you lynch oats? also we have four hours. And in no way am I content with what i believe will be a mislynch. Because I had (for some reason I can't recall now) a pretty good "this guy's probably town" hunch on him. I do promise you, in case Ace flips town (I'm giving this lynch about 50% chance of success), Marv and Oats will be the first people I'm looking to, for multiple reasons. I can't promise you I'd lynch either as i'd have to rethink, but a serious look would be taken. I hope you are aware that I put both marv and oats in the "7 players where I think 2-3 scum are" list. | ||
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Kill sonofabitch. | ||
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and since I have no clue who is scum whatever. I just want to lynch someone and I don't want it to be axle. Sciberbia, Ace, prplhz, reyn, WoS, marv are all fine by me. | ||
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Ace, Sciberbia. Pick your poison guys. | ||
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But okay, mostly because I cannot stay up tonight I need to wake up tomorrow, let's just lynch Axle. At least it rids me of a person that I don't know how to read. I'd give this lynch about 17% chance of success. ##unvote ##vote AxleGreaser | ||
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prplhz and marv and wos, please just hammer this so I can go to sleep. | ||
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On April 08 2013 09:02 sciberbia wrote: gee thanks palmar. im a little irked that you couldnt do that a couple hours ago when i specifically asked you to. marv i dont know what filter you're reading but i think ace has been pretty 'nice' all game long. which of his posts do you find abrasive? what? I've mostly been ignoring you, what did you want me to do? | ||
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On April 08 2013 09:03 iamperfection wrote: it in my filter plus ace told me that reasoning was bad so that makes it even more likely he is town he does that all the time as either alignment. The reason he's good is that a) he's smart and b) he always holds his cards close to the chest. Notice how little I actually know about his reads now. He seems to think Oats, Me, Marv, WoS are all scum and I have no clue who his primary candidate is. I guess marv? | ||
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On April 08 2013 09:04 WaveofShadow wrote: I feel like giving prplhz or Ace the hammer gives them an out though and I don't like it. Ace for reasons I already explained and as for prplhz it gives him an excuse for not switching to Ace in the first place despite pushing him all day. good now go hammer it. | ||
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@reyn I think it's silly to think this makes marv look worse, in fact I think the fact he didn't bus in the last minute switching (he must've known that when I started yelling at people to lynch Axle that it would end with Axle getting lynched) makes marv look considerably better. I wonder what this means, maybe Ace and reyn are the two remaining scum? | ||
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But whatever I guess I really need to stop ignoring people who post strangely. when I reread that filter after I switched my vote (and moved the chance from 17 -> 32) I couldn't even find why I thought he was town. | ||
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It's hilarious and it makes marv town. | ||
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at least I switched. | ||
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On April 08 2013 09:43 WaveofShadow wrote: Who's 'people?' You really worry about what Rayn thinks, with his expert analysis? he's worrying about his image, not his death in this game. | ||
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On April 08 2013 09:51 DarthPunk wrote: and also a completely arbitrary number pulled out of his arse 0_o Actually 79% of statistics in mafia are pretty accurate. | ||
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On April 08 2013 10:04 iamperfection wrote: why should the medic hold that seems stupid dunnoh, get rid of the rod so any actions later can be useful? | ||
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On April 09 2013 03:50 Oatsmaster wrote: Ill be back in like 9 hours? Palmar please be useful. PLEASE. no I'm happy so whatever. Last day went better than expected. | ||
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On April 09 2013 06:50 sciberbia wrote: Palmar in future could you read my damn posts? Might have helped you find scum instead of push me all day >_< No, not really. | ||
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##Vote Ace let's quickhammer a bitch. | ||
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On April 09 2013 09:09 iamperfection wrote: besides the possibility of your list being wrong palmar what do you think of this most recent tunkeg stuff? in the words of former president george w bush, "DIDN'T READ LOL!" | ||
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no marv promised me he's scum. marv wouldn't lie to me. | ||
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On April 09 2013 09:47 sciberbia wrote: oats? goddamnit palmar read my posts why on earth would you think oats is scum after marv just flipped town? cause marv is a dumbass. | ||
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Ace did point a finger at Oats multiple times on day 1, so that lends some credence to that theory. I also need to go back and look at everyone from day 1. reyn still feels like the most likely guy to be on the bus wagon, and tunkeg does not look too good. | ||
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assuming the vigilante isn't 1-shot, we probably should not shoot again, the reason simply being we have 2 mislynches right now (unless the mafia has a vigilante too) assuming 2 mislynches, it'll be 4v1 tomorrow (lynch and night kill), 2v1 on the day after that. so we do have some space to work with. I actually think Oats might be the best lynch today. | ||
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On April 11 2013 00:03 iamperfection wrote: its either WaveofShadow or prplhz imo probably yeah. | ||
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On April 11 2013 00:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: Palmar: Can you give your thoughts on these questions: tonight. | ||
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I am with you rayn. Marv's townread on Oats likely stems from the fact that Oat was buddying hard up to marv early in the game, back when I was actively trying to figure out marv's alignment. Oats tried to lynch Sci, DP, WoS and Sci, and that's about it. He basically decided and never looked back about calling iamp, marv and I town, hell he didn't even make a town read on me, just started talking to me as if I was confirmed town. ##Vote Oatsmaster | ||
Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On April 11 2013 11:32 Ace wrote: I had DP and Sciberbia as my top two Town reads about 2 days in. Then WoS, and finally marv after he revealed his notes and I realized he wasn't a lazy sack of shit. Palmar.../facepalm hey at least I voted scum 2/3 days, and to be honest killing you was fun enough to make it worth it. Sure I may have been off a lot, but at least I'm not marv. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On April 12 2013 01:49 Ace wrote: But you're ignoring what actually happened. If myself or any other Townie hammers WoS on Day 1, or we let sciberbia get lynched Day 1 - both of which were close to happening this entire argument is meaningless. Looking at the end result without acknowledging how we got there and just declaring the entire scenario imbalanced is crazy ![]() Also saying 3 newbie scum vs a team with 3 "vets" is a bit dishonest - in this game myself, you and Palmar didn't even have as much impact as 3 or 4 other Townies. Imagine if we knew the teams were supposed to be balanced - after you flip green, then I get mislynched there is no reading of Oat's and Turnkeg's filters. Scibebria never makes his hypothesis post about the Axle wagon. No one even needs to bother re-reading the thread - lynch Palmar because of balance. That isn't Mafia play. I agree with everything said in this post. You cannot even begin to try to analyse mafia in a way that tries to account for player skill. One important thing I think people are forgetting is that the game by definition doesn't allow players to play to their potential. A good townie on the right track gets shot and the rest of town proceeds to ignore everything he said, doesn't mean the townie deserves to lose ELO right? now the answer is that for enough games you'd hit the true ELO anyway, but because of the complexity and inherent randomness of mafia you can never play even close to the amount of games needed to evaluate someone's true skill level. So we make to with what we have. We use arbitrary metrics and judgement to decide player skill. But since skill varies massively even from one game to another for the same player, I honestly think balancing games is a bit silly. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
(I was a target for an assassin, but my win con was to be last man standing. on night 1 mafia shot me and the mafia godfather raged at me for lynching him and outed me in the thread). but to be fair one of them was impossible to lose (I got lynched day 1 but won anyway with the host... yeah that's right, the host and I won the game. Town and mafia lost.) | ||
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