EPT(What I mean by this is I don't have a problem with Jampi's filter _at the moment_, but that's assuming he changes his behavior. If his behavior remains unchanged, /shrug.)
Newbie Mafia XL - Page 2
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
(What I mean by this is I don't have a problem with Jampi's filter _at the moment_, but that's assuming he changes his behavior. If his behavior remains unchanged, /shrug.) | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
On Nobodywonder - Ehn. He's a bit harsher than others? (Although I haven't done a proper read of Rain yet! hehe.) He seems to be tossing out a lot of suspicion, but it may just be the posting style. Rain and Smancer at first, and then Kirby where his vote lies.. But what does he actually think about Rain or Smancer? it looked more like banter than anything, also some defensiveness when mentioned by Smancer but nothing actually said. (And the Kirby vote is totally out of left field.) When he comes back, I'd like to see what he has to say about everyone - particularly the three of them, since he managed to talk about the first two without a read, and the situation with Kirby has changed since he mentioned who his candidate was. Rainbows - the only two page filter! Yay! [although now that I checked, I just bled into two pages too - -;] Only his last five posts actually matter much, though - anybody drawing conclusions on him before those posts, I disagree with heh. -->>> ugh my phone just went off and I have to leave the internet for an undetermined time. I will finish my thoughts on Rain once I get back, and again, answer any questions and look over any new developments. Hope my thoughts help! =/ It's time consuming to do so if nobody wants me to do them I'd be just as happy to play games instead -_- My current guesses include fish/smancer townyish, saraf/jampi are townish but need to post more, slight scum lean to Warent and Raven. I think the explanations are above, but if somebody disagrees, feel free to yell at me and state your own opinion! That's largely what I'm looking for anyways :3 | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
So the last person for me to look at for now is Rain. You can seriously skip his entire first page of filter, it feels to me like it's entirely banter, random votes, discussion about disliking policy and a question that's "kinda like but not really" policy and discussion of nothing important. Just start on page two IMHO. And having read it, there really isn't much to say. He's just in defensive mode with regards to Saraf. He's honestly quite a bit nuller than I remember thinking as compared to how I mentally had registered him while going through everybody else's filters, but I really don't like lynching him largely because he was the vote leader at first, and he's sort of just been futilely omgusing at Saraf. >_>; It's day 2, we should start looking to consolidate. If somebody is lynched with two votes, I will rip my hair out -_- Although Kirby's scumminess meter is a little... silly ^^;, that really is the sort of thing I would like to see, that his apparent scumreads are Jarjar, Jampi, nobody, and maybe Rain. I feel like commenting on this sort of opinion helps town, since we can discuss the lynch and narrow it down onto a favored candidate. I'll toss in that I definitely prefer not lynching Rain today, for the above reasons. (Perhaps tomorrow, or later - things could always change - but definitely not today. At the moment, I would like to lynch out of a pool that includes everyone _other than_ Smancer, Fish, Rain, me, and Kirby. More detailed posting from everybody else would be terrific, although I will (of course) not say no to detailed posting from ye other four ^^ Specifically, I would like some general reads. A full list isn't entirely necessary, but we should consider beginning to consolidate IMHO, and I don't like our current two vote leaders as lynches right now. (@War)+ Show Spoiler + almost forgot lol. I think your case is focusing on Rain's first posts, and I think that Rain's first posts are not alignment indicative. Is that a satisfactory answer? If not, I guess I'd like you to be more specific in your case against him, or convince me that his first few posts ARE alignment indicative, instead of their assumed purpose being to attempt to drive discussion. ^^ | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
##Vote TheRavensName Lastly, I'm not very happy with how he disappeared in the ten minutes between his last post today and Rainbow's case without a response for multiple hours. + Show Spoiler + If you're sick, hope you feel better soon. :0 Doesn't make you any less scummy though ^^ | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
Ravens - Even if Rain is wrong, it doesn't make him scum. I've mentioned multiple times I think he would be a bad lynch today, and a vote on him doesn't help much. Do you have anybody (that happens to not be one of my townreads heh) that you can make a convincing case on? + Show Spoiler + I wouldn't really expect it of anyone here, it'd be such a silly thing to lie about ^^ I'm trying to not let them affect my reads, though, since an excuse doesn't really justify in-game behavior. I really like BH's viewpoint on this, although I'm nowhere near as hardcore hehe. Get better~ Kk saw that Raven had posted very shortly after me so I didn't take off to play games immediately, but I am going to do so now! | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
Lynching Rain tomorrow is exactly as bad an idea as it was before. If he's actually scum, scum can't use a roleblock, if one exists, until he dies. (since if they have it, they can't use it, and if they don't have it, then they don't have it.) If he sticks around for multiple days as a claimed townie then the likelihood of him being scum goes up considerably, but... -_- Ugh why did you claim? Lol there's no reasonable way you would've gotten lynched today unless we're fucked anyways. grr ._. | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=147475 , this line is something I think back to quite regularly - "The worst way to play day 1 is with apathy and disinterest and lynch the most outspoken/controversial player, who is never going to be mafia." -_- If you don't think that Rainbows is the most controversial and outspoken player, you are outright incorrect. I'd be delighted if there was a recent votecount so I could tell everybody voting him to vote someone else instead, but there isn't a recent one. So instead - Vote someone else instead. Jesus =0 At least unvote while you think about it so Rain doesn't blow a fucking blood vessel in his head or something ^^ Talk to the coaches or something. I'm fairly confident in this, and will be unhappy to eat my words if I end up being wrong, but seriously, I feel like he is a horrible day1 lynch! More to follow I guess although i had hoped to relax a lil lol | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
On the flip side, I guess I feel like Moloch has strongly joined my list of town-reads, so that's something out of this. Jampi, I will get to your case in a moment. And if you seriously rage-quit just because; I will seriously be angry. | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
On April 06 2013 15:03 jampidampi wrote: ##Vote: Rainbows Rainbows is really scummy. At the start, he had the opportunity to continue discussing what was being discussed, but instead he brings up this hypotetical question. Now what purpose does it serve? Scum could post this to know what kind of behaviour we find scummy. Town could post this to generate discussion. But I don't believe that. Rainbows had already got good discussion rolling about something that matters to town (policy). But instead he brings up something that can't benefit town. And there is no followup whatsoever. Trying to follow guidelines on what sort of behavior people find scummy is pointless, it's been well proven even in our newbie game that we are willing to adapt. Scumminess indicators are not a thing that are engrained since birth. I feel like he was just trying to generate conversation and promote a positive town atmosphere - in the same way that my first few posts, upon re-reading, look sorta pointless. I was trying to help get the thread started, so we didn't have an empty day 1 that we couldn't draw good conclusions from. Rainbows asked if Ravens was scum or VT. Blatant bluefishing. No scum would ever answear "Yes, I'm scum". If Ravens had claimed VT there, scum would know he isn't blue. Ravens may have in confusion softclaimed a powerrole there. I can't find any townie reasonin Rainbows would ask this question. Bluefishing!? How in the world did you get that? Literally no matter what, the proper answer is to say VT. If Ravens had claimed VT, scum would know that he claimed VT. If he's blue, he doesn't have to tell the truth! The question looked like meaningless banter; if it was malicious, it was incredibly shallow, and calling it Bluefishing is absurd in the extreme. (imo ^^) Rainbows says how he likes Obzy. If you look at any mafia games posts, when someone likes someone, he thinks that guy is town. Just look at the list posts in this game: "I don't like XXX" is used in contexes, where people think XXX is scummy. Yet when I ask him to explain his liking of Obzy, he says he liked the name and that he has posted a lot, when at the time, Obzy had three posts. If look at those three posts, that is not a good basis for a town read. Hehe I like being told that I'm liked though :0 It's motivating! Legitimately thinking that I was strongly town at that point may have been a bit much, but he didn't say that. I feel like you're trying to build a mountain out of a molehill here, and the connection is not as strong as you are making it out to be. Rainbows thinks he is the center of the thread and that he should be talked about. + Show Spoiler + On April 06 2013 01:49 Rainbows wrote: You were summing up the thread because I was the only one doing things. On April 06 2013 12:36 Rainbows wrote: First post of the day. Neglects to comment on my play which I find exceedingly odd. I was pretty much the entire thread at that point. On April 05 2013 23:37 Rainbows wrote: A bunch of generic pro-town things being advocated. He provides a (bad) summary of events in the thread and... that's it. [snip] It is obvious that Saraf is referring to me here. I'm spamming, I'm doing a bunch of nuisance-like things and he doesn't like it. He says he would like to lynch me; even if I'm probably town. Saraf seems to know I'm town, because he refers to me as such and tells me how I should be playing. [snip] I digress, he's brought up the policy to 'lynch the spammiest asshole', but that in itself people are already talking about because I'm the center of discussion. So antagonisitic. On April 06 2013 12:12 Rainbows wrote: He didn't do anything of use early game. He was around, but chose to do nothing useful. He barely even talked to me, and pretty much ignored events in the thread. His real 'entrance' post to the thread is here: This scummy since Rainbows clearly cares his image. He cares that people see him as town. He cares enough to make a point of being the center of discussion. Scum care for their image. Here is another case of Rainbows caring about his image: Blues also care about their image, though, presumably. They're trying to act like they are just VTs, but without denying information to town. The only post which he brings up from nobodywonder is this one, where nobodywonder suspects Rainbows. [/quote]Rainbows is hellbent in his interpretating that Saraf called him town, even when multiple people have said that was not what Saraf intented to say. If Saraf is town, what Rainbow did was scummy, because he has more reasons to potentiaaly misslynch Saraf. If Saraf is scum, it's still scummy. Rainbows appears to put pressure on Saraf and if Saraf is ever on the chopping block, Rainbows can go "oh shit, my reasoning is really dump" and save him. And here, I think that if Rainbows was able to actually form a wagon on Saraf, it would have more to it than just this piece of information. It would be a terrific plan if they were scumbuddies and Rain had the amount of thread presence necessary to direct AND THEN UNDIRECT an entire lynch, several days in - but that's some tinfoil hat stuff right there. As such - I do not think that your case has merit. I'm not sure if it makes you scum or not, though - and I wish that Rain hadn't absolutely fucking exploded when you posted it lol. Does that answer the question to your satisfaction? In addition to everything I have already posted regarding Rainbow's innocence and my townread on him, I suppose I could also point out this - And these quotes are a pain to get - On April 05 2013 09:05 Rainbows wrote: ##Vote: TheRavensName On April 05 2013 09:18 Rainbows wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: Smancer On April 05 2013 09:28 Rainbows wrote: ##Unvote On April 05 2013 10:03 Rainbows wrote: ##Vote: Smancer On April 05 2013 13:04 Rainbows wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: Saraf On April 06 2013 12:12 Rainbows wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: TheRavensName On April 06 2013 15:21 Rainbows wrote: ##unvote ##Vote: Jampidamp On April 06 2013 16:02 Rainbows wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: TheRavensName If he is scum, why is he antagonizing everyone one at a time, writing cases whimsically and without warning, dropping them at a feather's touch - almost if not always because he himself decided another case was better? I'm not verbose enough to explain this in a poetic way, but he's too batshit crazy to be scum at this point in time. (In a good way ^^;; )(...Imo. =P) | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
Hi Warent~ I'll answer as best I can, then I'm gonna finish up this day9 vid and head to bed lol. Paused in part 3 ^^ That's correct, I don't mind that Rain completely misinterpreted Saraf's intent. I feel like everybody noticed this, and it was mentioned frequently (as Rain has been the center of attention), and Rain absolutely refused to re-read it and just kept trailblazing with different scumreads and hasn't looked back. Not really a way that I'd desire to play, personally - but I don't really think that there can be a meaningful distinction drawn between town and scum for misinterpreting something like that and never looking back. + Show Spoiler + And if there was one, it would be that scum wouldn't fail to correct something that seemed sort of obvious lol. Regarding Raven - the thing that sort of clicked with me was the meta argument - I mean, he was one of the players that I was content with lynching at the time (and still am, of course - at the moment) due to not being a solid townread, and my townreads have the votes atm -_-;; Rain's argument is reasonable, but really boils down to "He's got no reads (that I like and respect and stuff)." The line "I hate to meta people, but TRN in previous games was active, scumhunting, and voted early Day 1. He's reserving his vote right now which irks me. He has done no scumhunting this game and is teetering on the edge of null on everybody." made me look at the activity level in his previous game, and it looked quite different - and I didn't want to take excuses into account. I will try to (if I don't get lazy) take a more in-depth look at his posts in the previous game compared to his posts here tomorrow, ignoring the activity level due to his illness - but I'm not much good at detailed analysis lol. My metric was activity level, which is potentially flawed, if the activity dropoff is entirely due to illness. Even if I ended up concluding "Well, I guess I can't tell the difference between the games :["... That would just convince me that I was bad at metaing people, and he STILL didn't have any reads, so he's still the same level of scumread as any others. I'll try to be able to speak more accurately about the difference in his play this game and his play last game tomorrow, if i don't get annoyed at the time investiture lol. If someone else wants to do it that'd be terrific  sigh my internet went out last night at like 1:18 and i finished writing up this message at like 1:25 and it's 1:45 and I fucking quit I'm going to bed I'll post this when I get up tomorrow and then I'll read the thread. But to re-emphasize on what I think your post starting on page 18 was - I did indeed notice the same thing everyone else did regarding Rain's Saraf mistake, and I still don't really get how people apparently went "Ah, a clear mistake. He must be scum." *shrug* anyways going to bed. you should get this tomorrow morning [for me. quite a bit later for you. my apologies  ]So last night I wrote this post and then my internet went out - I spent a bit trying to fix it and then gave up and went to bed. It's a response to Warent's questions - I haven't read past his first post on page 18 yet, i'll go ahead and do that now lol. just got up. | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
##Unvote TheRavensName ##Vote JampiDampi I still haven't gone over your filter from last game ^^ Until I do, my thoughts on meta might just be wrong, and in that case, you're merely lurking and being elusive like several other people. Jampi, though - But why didn't continue talking about the things discussed then and instead brought up something else that doesn't serve a purpose? None of it served a purpose. When I look at Rainbows' filter, everything before On April 05 2013 13:19 Rainbows wrote: Now that the abhorrent spamming is over by me, I want everyone to grace us with their presence asap. Talk about what little has occured so far, or anything. I pretty much think is pointless and non-alignment-indicative. Fluffy, yes. Trying to get the thread started and encourage rather than shut down conversation? Also yes. It doesn't really matter whether or not he kept talking about the same useless things, and instead introduced something else useless, IMO. Can you explain why a townie would ask that question? There is no way the answear is going to be alignment indicative in any way. I think he was just bantering. It sounded like the sort of thing that debears/mr.cc were chatting about back in forth in my first game, newbie XXX, and they were both town. He himself implied that it was a townread at the time. Well, cool. I guess I'm supertown then. I don't see how something like that would make him scum, in any case - -; Being seen as town != being seen as VT. If a blue seems like a VT, how the heck does he claim if it comes to that? And blues know they are on the towns side, se they don't need to care to look like town. It comes naturally. Scum on the other hand, do care that they are seen as townie. They need to survive and not be lynched. They have a fear that people think they are scum. So they care that people see them as town. Heh. If a blue seems like a VT, he won't need to claim. The only ones worried about whether or not their actions will permit them to claim blue are scum, since they would expect to eventually HAVE to claim. Real blues shouldn't need to claim. (Unless you're Rainbows and go insane and claim too early and maybe ragequit. hehe :l) Does his response to my case look like a townies response? He is overemotional and instantly OMGUSSES me. He missinterprets my logic. He clearly feels the pressure but still calls the case BS. How is this a townie response? In my first game, when someone made a case on me that (in retrospect) was clearly misinterpreting the facts, I absolutely blew up at him and panicked. Overemotional, immediate omgus, I completely ignored his logic, which was a little silly because as I was VT, it couldn't've been perfect ^^ - Why the heck would I call that a scumtell when I have done it myself? lol Regarding Rain on Saraf - it amuses me that in your last paragraph, you say that his vote on Saraf was unserious, but in your other paragraph I didn't specifically quote, you say that his vote on Saraf was to set up for later. At this point, I would rather vote you than Ravens. I'll tell you the same thing I'd like to tell all people I am voting - If you don't want me to think you're scum, find me a scum that's not one of my townreads and convince me and everybody else that they are scum. If it's good enough, logical enough, etc - then we'll hit scum, and you'll survive an additional day. And if you can't do that without hitting my townreads, you're the lynch. :3 | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
On April 07 2013 02:31 Warent wrote: Sadly I'm on my way out... but yeah, perhaps I'm overreacting on his mistake, perhaps - but I still fail to see how you can be so darn certain he is town. He's my strongest townread. I could always be wrong, I've only played one game before. But I'll eat my hat [I do not own a hat] if he is not town. Lynching my strongest townread is something INCREDIBLY STUPID lol. Honestly, I don't like the votes on Kirby either! I explained that quite some time ago, On April 06 2013 10:55 Obzy wrote: At the moment, I would like to lynch out of a pool that includes everyone _other than_ Smancer, Fish, Rain, me, and Kirby. More detailed posting from everybody else would be terrific, although I will (of course) not say no to detailed posting from ye other four ^^ Specifically, I would like some general reads. A full list isn't entirely necessary, but we should consider beginning to consolidate IMHO, and I don't like our current two vote leaders as lynches right now. here and a few posts back, where I note that I didn't have a solid read (town or scum - I think he posted in between, because I originally wrote "me, and surprisingly Kirby" and deleted it cause it looked dumb) on Kirby at the time. As a result, I do not like where JarJar, Nobodywonder, Warent, RavensName, and Jampi have placed their votes - If my vote-target doesn't change, that's fine, scum can put their vote on my townreads. I can give that permission I suppose But you other 3-4 ought to change. I'm less certain that Kirby is a bad lynch compared to Rain, but he's definitely, definitely worse than Jampi is right now. | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
On April 06 2013 22:26 jampidampi wrote: Rainbows giving Obzy a townread based on Obzys first three posts doesn't matter? And like half of Rainbows cases were really bad. Look at his case on Saraf. A bunch of missinterpretings and lies. His case on nobodywonder? Picks up one post, says that nobodywonder doesn't have a read on Rainbows, when wonder gave his read on him in the post Rainbows bought up. Rainbows calls out Ravens for not giving his opinion on nobodywonder, even though Ravens called him dump town. And do you think Rainbows reacted to my case in a townie way? Absolutely, I think he reacted in a townie way. Not necessarily in a pro-town way, mind you! But DEFINITELY in a townie way haha. I don't want to see Saraf's opinion on rainbows, Ravens. I want to see Saraf's opinion on basically anybody else haha. If his opinion on Rain isn't that he's town, then wth tbth ^^ And lastly since Warent just posted - I didn't really expect you to move your vote - -; But you've seemed mildly scummy so whatever. I don't want to lynch for information when we could lynch for killing Jampi >.> I don't really think that waiting until Rain's flip matters a ton to be honest lol! If he's town, then OBVIOUSLY you guys look bad - but you already look bad! :x And if he's scum, then the guilty parties to look at are myself, smancer, and fish - strong townreads of mine, and I think, everybody else too. Yes yes things are constantly in need of re-evaluation and all - but phrasing it that way tries to strengthen the argument of lynching for information, which is just stupid. Why would you want to lynch a non-counter-claimed blue, who claimed in the middle of the day many hours before the lynch before afking, on day 1? I'll be around intermittently guys - If Rainbows gets more votes I am going to be quite cross, ahaha. -_- And I quite think that the votes he has, have no business being on him. | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
Although maybe he would counterclaim him if it looked like Rain wasn't going to be lynched and he wanted to use his shot somewhere else so really it's not entirely solid. A good point, though. ^^; I concur that I would like to see Jarjar post more - and I'd like to see nobodywonder's take on this, since he's currently still on Kirby as well. (Honestly, I'd like to see Kirby's input too.) I think that they're the last few that haven't taken a stance given the new information - if I'm forgetting someone, they also need to take a stance - -;. | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
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Obzy
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On April 07 2013 04:49 jampidampi wrote: Is there anything aside from my case/tunnel on Rainbows that makes me scummy? That was the biggest thing for me. Besides that - you hadn't given out any non-Rain related reads. Additionally, people whom I think are townie, Fish, Smancer, and Moloch, are voting you - and the votes on Jarjar are because he's lurking and not posting. I looked into jampi's past game and saw that he gave out town reads early - and then was apparently told by his coaches to not share weak townreads, so I guess his lack of reads in that regard makes a little more sense. Honestly, your last post troubles my read lol. On the one hand, Jarjar quite legitimately does feel like you're sort of hopping out there to kill him without him being around. On the flip side, you gave out mafia reads with reasoning, changed your stance that was the primary thing I disliked, and started looking at a couple of other people. I want Jarjar to post more. I'll consider switching my vote, if Fish, Smancer, or Moloch agrees that he's a viable lynch, if he doesn't show up at all, or if his appearance is stupid... - it feels a little derpy bouncing from my current scumread to a lurker based largely on my scumread's vote, though. | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
On April 07 2013 06:16 jrkirby wrote: Obzy: I want a good explaination why you prefer jampidampi over jarjar. JarJar: if you show up, I want to see your reads on everyone. So you better show up fast, cause there's a lot to read. Concisely - Jarjar is just a lurker, and jampi seemed scummy because his case on Rainbows was bad (I had been defending rainbows, I think, even before this) - also, because jampi had not contributed any non-Rain related reads. He had bounced some questions around, but had not indicated his thoughts towards other people (iirc). Now that he's changed that, I'm less sure. | ||
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
Jarjar may _also_ be a good lynch, it's hard to tell right now. Jampi was a good lynch before he responded, and I don't know if he's just handling himself in a way to try to get pressure off of him now, or if he just had been too tunneled. I would like to hear what the other jampi voters have to say, regarding how he has reacted to the votes on him. | ||
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