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Ace
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Ace
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*shakes head in a bored way knowing he will lynch Bill Murray with ease Day 1* | ||
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On April 22 2013 01:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because the OP clearly states there can be multiple number of same roles, so discussing if there are one or more self-aware millers in stupid in the first place. Anyone who claims miller on D1 should be lynched. ##Vote: Bill Murray Bill Murray's post wasn't a claim though | ||
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On April 22 2013 05:16 getmoript wrote: Is there a particular reason you feel the need to troll me? I dont have any thoughts on yamato | ||
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Agree/Disagree/Don't Care? | ||
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On April 22 2013 06:49 Vivax wrote: Still, he felt the urge to post to tell us that he didn't have the urge to post anything constructive since he felt there was no discussion? Newbies can be zealous townies, too. If some dude is an overzealous newbie who talks a lot of stupid stuff it's still much townier than someone who mentions reasons to not do anything, and then doesn't post when the discussion he felt was lacking actually started. Some players just don't post much. Point him in the direction of something worth discussing and if he still refuses we just lynch him. Difference between apathy and blatant uncooperation. | ||
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Ace
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On April 22 2013 07:24 Sharrant wrote: I see. I am assuming this to be you saying he looks like a noobie town then, yes? Or are you saying he seems new, and null? Is there someone you would be comfortable with lynching right this second (aside from Bill Murray)? Is there someone you would recommend looking into? newbie and null. Not interested in lynching anyone specific at the moment. I'm just sitting back reading and will see what happens. | ||
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On April 22 2013 08:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: Palmar could you or someone else like Ace come in and tell these idiots why claiming miller at the start of the game is either scummy or extremely dumb. Self aware miller claims are good for Town - if we know the rolecounts or had a good way to sort out future claims. In this game we don't so what Bill Murray allegedly did would be dumb. But we have to wait till he shows up to do anything. | ||
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On April 22 2013 08:14 Sharrant wrote: So, we're back to you wanting to lynch BM as a policy because he claimed miller? I'm a little wary of you sitting back, I've heard you generally take a less active role as scum. What do you think of Rayn right now? I dont know why people keep saying that. I've got more than 30 games on this forum behaving all kinds of ways. My activity depends on how I feel, what I see, and how active other players are. | ||
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On April 22 2013 08:45 Palmar wrote: If you're into programming consider the BM thread to be suspended until we receive further information, that doesn't stop the program, just that one thread. | ||
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On April 22 2013 12:21 Oatsmaster wrote: explain in one sentence for each player, what makes them scum? I'm also interested in seeing an explanation so repeating this for emphasis. Yamato I get a wishy washy vibe from you too based on that post. Are you just dropping a FOS or do you think they are legit Scum candidates? | ||
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Ace
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I'm guessing ShiaoPi is calling him scummy for changing his mind. If so, Sharrant's first response is suspect. There is no new information, or anything referenced there that indicates TRN is unimportant. From skimming his name has came up as much as anyone else's so I'd say right now he's a somebody in this thread. Now I don't see how he could say you would be giving TRN town cred on your death. That would mean that you and TRN would have to both be Scum. He comes to the conclusion TRN must be Town based on the guy being lynchbait. Not sure how TRN only had a small chance of being Mafia, but the best question now would be how did Sharrant go from looking at him as possible scum ->lynchbait. I don't see any posts by TRN that could have changed that stance. His name has been brought up but no one outside of Sharrant himself has voted for the guy. I don't think that theory holds. | ||
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On April 22 2013 12:47 yamato77 wrote: Considering that most of the people I'm looking at aren't posting, I'll refrain from commenting on them in order to wait and see what they do decide to do with their time when they are here. If this response isn't what you were looking for, I really don't care. If they aren't posting then what the hell are you looking into? | ||
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On April 22 2013 12:49 yamato77 wrote: Could add Ace to the list for this post where he echoes thread sentiment for no good reason after not posting for forever. watching basketball, fucking women. Sorry if I'm not posting every minute of the day. | ||
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On April 22 2013 12:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: I fail to see how Sharrant can possibly think i am taking his "bait" and defending town!TRN (as he's now saying) as mafia. If TRN was my lynchbait, i would need my teammates to vote for him to gain the credit, otherwise defending him is useless for me. There is/was noone else voting for TRN. That's the worst reasoning to backpedal from a scumread i have ever heard. On top of that, Sharrant obviously hasn't even read why i think TRN is town. Hint: The post where i answer OO about him. That's also why I don't buy the lynchbait theory. No one else voted for the guy, and Sharrant's mind got changed with no posts from TRN that I've seen in that time frame that could have credibly changed it. If I have this correct it was rayn/TRN both Scum => TRN is Town lynchbait/newbie Scum => TRN Town lynchbait with Sharrant the only one voting for him. Sharrant can you point out the posts that made you unvote TRN? | ||
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On April 22 2013 12:57 yamato77 wrote: I already said I think most of the people posting (Rayn, Sharrant, Giygas) seem town. You, on the other hand, are worth looking at. ![[image loading]](http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_meby0p7WRW1rjhbn2o1_500.jpg) | ||
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On April 22 2013 13:05 yamato77 wrote: Seems like you wanted to do the same thing, Ace. Wait and see. You apparently aren't even interested in the game enough to have reads worth mentioning. But yet you seem to like +1ing posts that imply suspicion on people + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2013 05:03 ObviousOne wrote: This is true enough, though one wonders about the motivation for even saying the name. It's not outside the realm of possibility that he wanted to nudge the town causing millers to claim. Doesn't tell me if he is town or scum, either; he could be fishing for mafia to rise to the bait and miller claim as well. Discussion went (without his explicit aid) towards lynching all miller claims and that theoretical concept was shut down. Why don't we just ask him if he's claiming miller and move on until he comes back? His activity in Boardwalk was mostly in the late evening/early morning hours (EST), so we'll see what he has to say about it when he comes back. In the mean time, ShiaoPi why did you want to kill Bill Murray as your first game post? It doesn't exactly jive with your previous post in the pre-game. Explain please. So even more so than me, you don't seem to care what the thread is doing, don't want to talk about reads, and seem content waiting on one person to explain his claim in order to do ANYTHING today. But you're content with your +1 of suspicion on me while repeating the same drivel the people that have already spoken have said. I'd kill Ace. Forreal. ##Vote Ace I'm a pretty patient fellow. I'm interested in the game - I just don't post my reads every second of the day. That's pretty much my standard operating procedure. Seems like your entire case is me not throwing around suspicions but instead, asking people to clarify stuff other people have pointed out. How is that scummy again? | ||
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On April 22 2013 13:10 yamato77 wrote: You're calling me scummy for the same thing, bro. eh? I didn't do anything of the sort. I just said you were wishy washy for stating you got an itchy feeling about players. Oats asked you to give reasons for every one of them and I agreed. I don't see what you're getting so scared of here. Why not just answer the question? | ||
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On April 22 2013 13:27 Bill Murray wrote: hi, ace. how are you? awww shit it's B to the M ez in the heezy. What's goody yo? | ||
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On April 22 2013 13:30 Bill Murray wrote: chillin. macaroni n cheese. gotta read this game after skimping on my astrobiology. yea man do dat. Lotta people unhappy with the stunt you pulled. Keep ya head up playa (lol , get it?! keep your head...I'll see myself out). @Sharrant: I think you're stretching it on rayne there. If he originally convinced you with his defense of TRN then why can't you take it as a possible Town tell too? He puts effort into reading the guy's posts and denying the lynch because he is Town and not Scum trying to secure future town cred - especially on a guy that no one even tried to lynch. | ||
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On April 22 2013 13:45 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Mafia is a game about finding mafia not town + waiting on lurkers for more reads? How about you analyze whos already here. Also still catching up but this is the single worst post ive seen to this point of reading ![[image loading]](http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/applause.gif) | ||
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Rayne is guilty for being a tunneler, not being Scum. I don't see anything he's done that warrants a legit case against him. | ||
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On April 23 2013 04:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: Ace or BC, is there anyone you guys would like to lynch? come on you're already doing good on the activity front. Don't fake question me  | ||
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On April 23 2013 05:27 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I die d1 / n1 virtually every game where towns typically overall have terrible play / doing really wtf. Its to the point that anything I view as extremely easy to understand logically I will likely not explain fully. Why? Because I am not here to teach you how to play. Also anyone who bases reads on a player exclusively on a filter without the context of posts should be ashamed. ![[image loading]](http://www.andyellwood.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/knowledge.drop_.png) | ||
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On April 23 2013 05:30 BloodyC0bbler wrote: What reason does town have to make to ever claim miller? Seriously, tell me. All it does is clusterfuck a thread and leaves open ground for mafia to claim as well and thus be cleared as town as he claimed miller. Assume all miller claims are bullshit and kill. If you get red checked you get killed. Its pretty simple. You lynch people who are likely mafia. Town has no reason to ever claim miller EVEN IF THEY KNOW THEY ARE ONE. As all it does is create chaos. IE only mafia have a benefit to claim it thus should be lynched. As for extremely bad? Sorry I've seen you play. You aren't that bad and should be able to follow the logic I just outlined. Its straightforward and extremely basic. self aware millers should claim if the role counts are known, and should be expected to get policy lynched if the game goes on long enough. Otherwise not claiming can be brutal as Scum can claim it first and skate off. | ||
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On April 23 2013 05:46 Vivax wrote: I'll tell you who I want to lynch the most today: ##Vote Oatsmaster His play differs a lot from his town play, where he can be disruptive, but is also ballsy and involved. In Boardwalk empire he played an aggressive early game, not afraid to tunnel players, or to be annoying with his aggression. Here he started like that, to turn defensive when threatened by me and Palmar, and his involvement seems to be very low afterwards, he rather trolls or talks about irrelevant stuff, and doesn't post much. Scared Oats. seriously, lets not do this. No meta cases please. We need 13 votes to secure a lynch by deadline - how about we not bring up lynching people with no context in THIS game whatsoever? You aren't going to convince many people with this, and you're just stalling the yamato wagon. Dont do this bullshit. | ||
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On April 23 2013 06:02 Vivax wrote: Don't worry, I'll deliver some context, slow and steady, hot and juicy: Facts about the bolded: - Oats says VE has good reads - Oats found Palmar's post scummy, VE said Palmar would be town for that + Show Spoiler + On April 21 2013 23:04 VisceraEyes wrote: I think Palmar would never make this read as scum. Discuss - VE had geript as scumread before Oats posted this, but when Oats posted this: 1. Geript was basically modconfirmed 2. Nowhere do we see that Oats is agreeing on VE's scumread on geript. Wishywashy post with lots of unconfirmed and incorrect stuff. Add the meta to it and you have a tiptop D1 lynch. /summon Palmar Having a bit of trouble with this. Are you saying Oats is initally trusting VE's reads and then contradicting himself? If Oats finds Palmar's post Scummy, then VE says scum Palmar wouldn't post that is the problem then that Oats no longer trusts VE's read? I'm not sure how the geript thing ties this together. Can you clarify that for me? my train of thought: I'm guessing VE doesn't have many scum reads at this point. So Oats goes: VE has good reads. One of VE's few reads is geript as Scum. Oats never agrees with it. Since Oats calls VEs reads good, he never points out which ones -> he's just sheeping? therefore most likely Scum. With geript being possibly modconfirmed Town Oat's reasoning fails and since he's just sheeping and not being aggressive -> more likely Scum. Is that it? | ||
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On April 23 2013 06:30 Vivax wrote: If he had a townread on VE, who cared at that point? If he had scumreads, why does he only mention them as answer to pressure, even though no one asked him about them? Cause he posted them to look like he was doing something, figuring out the game. Does it look like he tries to pursue these reads outside of this post? naw. It does answer my earlier question about if he's supposed to be sheeping his townread (VE) then why doesn't he push em also. Giving information no one asked for in a fake attempt to answer questions is just icing on the cake. | ||
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On April 23 2013 06:53 kushm4sta wrote: lurking on phone. rather kill yamato oats is just really inactive so I can't get a good read. he was active enough. Read Vivax's case. Both posts on this page are pretty damning. | ||
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On April 23 2013 07:58 Bill Murray wrote: well, you can get over it. you're a high filutin ignoramous that thinks he's breakthrough, and liberal so what if i dont care the only people who care about my revolutionary town techniques are mafia, or Ace. He seems to be avoiding the spotlight this game, though, so I'm going to let him be. He might bag us ~3 mafia before it's all over. ![[image loading]](http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/biggums.png) | ||
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On April 23 2013 08:47 Bill Murray wrote: hmmm. It might be too late for a shift, but this logic is definitely something that I wouldn't mind a concerted effort in analyzing... Scum have that sort of mindset... but what if Oats is an offering? That would look bad on Vivax, then! how would that look bad on Vivax? | ||
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Think he's the better lynch looking at Vivax's list. Too many people prefer Oats but haven't changed to it so I will do so. yamato just being useless, eventual vigi bait. | ||
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On April 23 2013 09:18 Vivax wrote: Vivax → Case Ace → prefers Oats, initially pushed yamato CC → announces to look through yamato and Oats VE → Would get behind Oats lynch Kush → prefers yamato Giyga → Ask Oats question about earlier vote against him OO → Prefers yamato Rayn → Prefers oats Kush → Changes mind to lynching Oats Palmar → Could do Oats. Also, VE is scum. Giyga → Announces delay in looking through them WoS → Says VE is scum, mentions something scummy about Oats. Worried about Oats posting something about yamato Yamato → Said Oats could be scum earlier, VE IS SCUM but pops in and says BC and Ace could both be mafia. Bleh. Getmoript → votes yamato BM → Votes yamato TRN → Votes yamato for martyring Giyga → Prefers Oats WoS → Claims to prefer Oats. Kush → Actual change of vote to Oats Ones in bold need to follow through and vote for Oats. | ||
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On April 23 2013 11:54 getmoript wrote: So you voted for a town read when you got mad. Are you serious? I can't even keep a straight face right now considering how fucking hilarious of an excuse that is. the more he talks the more hilarious he gets | ||
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On April 23 2013 12:03 Oatsmaster wrote: Because I already said enough about it, and I wanted to get a bandwagon rolling on ace. ![[image loading]](http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/facepalm.gif) | ||
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On April 24 2013 04:53 Clarity_nl wrote: I didn't not want to lynch him either. It didn't feel right but as hopeless pointed out in the face of dying he was just still being trolly.... you don't do that as town.. Yamato why were you so certain that oats was town, I think you were the only one. It wasn't that you were explaining how he was a bad lynch, you were saying HE IS TOWN OMG IDIOTS. What made you so sure? because he is scum. Unfortunate that Oats flipped Town but the case against him was solid. Tomorrow we go back to the original wagon on yamato. | ||
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On April 24 2013 17:32 yamato77 wrote: He was after TRN, which he later dropped, and rightly so. His case was meh, but his conclusion that TRN was likely town is not one I would see a mafia in Sharrant's position make. His read on geript seems genuine. Despite the claim, he finds geript scummy, but can't lynch him because of the sentiment that he's town for the host interaction. I like his read on you and how he handled it. I like how he interacted with BM, it seemed honest and a real product of frustration. He also has a scumread on Hopeless. I haven't personally looked at Hopeless, but that's another point in his favor. In the time he has been here, I like Sharrant's contributions, even if he may be wrong about some things. ??? If Sharrant is Scum and TRN isn't then what other conclusion is he going to make? Like seriously, I'd be interested to know because there aren't many. The part in red is just ridiculous. | ||
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On April 24 2013 17:36 yamato77 wrote: Rayn specifically asked who else Sharrant had been after, so I discussed it in those terms. You're just as bad as BC. and like an idiot you just made some bullshit up. How does the read Sharrant gave "in his position" nullify a Scum read? If you're going to make statements at least qualify them with some context. | ||
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On April 24 2013 17:40 yamato77 wrote: Furthermore, I've seen plenty of mafia tunnel an unpopular scumread to look original. Happens all the time. I rarely see mafia back down from an early read, and even if they do, I even more rarely actually say that person is likely town and close the door on lynching them. That's not a mafia mentality. The part in red is not ridiculous when we're discussing the NUMBER OF SHARRANTS READS. No matter whether I agree with him or not, his read on Hopeless seems genuine and not bullshit. Ok, and I've seen plenty of mafia players back off their original reads to look like they aren't tunneling. Good, now that we've got the made up hypotheticals out of the way lets get back to this game. You stated that if Sharrant was Scum, him calling TRN town eventually in his current position doesn't make sense. What position was Sharrant in? Was he in danger of being lynched? No - so how can you really glean anything from what he says about TRN's alignment at the moment? Your post screams you automatically assumed his alignment is Town and then worked backwards. If you don't know Sharrant's alignment your entire example fails hard. Making a case on hopeless1nder doesn't mean anything. I mean you didn't even point out what about the case was rock solid, you just said "yea that's a point in his favor". That's utter bs. | ||
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On April 24 2013 17:41 yamato77 wrote: What are you talking about? I never said anything about "nullifying a scum read". Ace, what the fuck? nullifying a scum read = seeing Sharrant as Town from now on. | ||
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On April 24 2013 17:51 yamato77 wrote: I did none of that. You're making shit up. Lol, Ace. ok well I'm going to leave this up for everyone to see your nonsense. On April 24 2013 17:32 yamato77 wrote: He was after TRN, which he later dropped, and rightly so. His case was meh, but his conclusion that TRN was likely town is not one I would see a mafia in Sharrant's position make. You are concluding that the reason Sharrant can't be Scum is because he wouldn't tunnel a player he knows is Town in his position. For one you've failed to tell us what position Sharrant was in that makes it so unique. You didn't. You keep dodging the point about assuming he must be Town. You even tried to bring up some dumb hypothetical about Scum players not wanting to tunnel someone they know is Town. Even if we assume this is true - Sharrant hasn't been active enough for you to get that read so easily. How is it possible that you know Sharrant isn't capable of that kind of play when he's been missing for the last 48 hours? There is no way you could be so sure and everyone else be off. Point blank - just because Sharrant tunneled a guy and backed off doesn't wipe out the possibility that he is Scum. Even if you assume that is a play that Scum wouldn't do most of the time you never explained why Sharrant himself isn't capable of doing it. You're scum because there is no way you would be able to make such a conclusion and miss the obvious pithole in that logic if you were actually reading him without foreknowledge of his alignment. | ||
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On April 24 2013 23:26 ObviousOne wrote: Ace, I have been listening to the most recent podcast and an interesting note came up regarding use of meta. D1 meta should never be used ever, according to someone on the cast, and it is often used as a crutch by scum to secure mislynches. Does this ring true to you, and if so does this change your perspective on Vivax at all? I ask because it seems despite your apprehension to using meta this early in the game, you seem to have come around to supporting Vivax's case: So I brought up Vivax's filter and I see he rounded out a legitimate case on Oats that leads to you coming to this conclusion. Two points from Vivax: - Oats says VE has good reads: he did the same exact thing in boardwalk as town with VE scum, I think there might be a Craigslist Missed Connection ad VE should be looking for. Not sure what I'm not seeing that happened before this and we can't ask Oats anymore but perhaps VE can clarify whether or not they have a history together that would explain Oats thinking he's right/town all the time. - Oats found Palmar's post scummy, VE said Palmar would be town for that: Oats is just random as fuck. I don't think there's a more effective way to say it, but even the above point fits into this category. I want to ask you specifically how familiar you are with Oats' playstyle and general thread presence outside of what you've seen in this game. Admittedly I didn't do anything whatsoever to convince town that Oats was a bad lynch, and these are thoughts in retrospect, but they are leading to this final question: Would town VE be suspicious of Palmar for that kind of post, from your experience and from your opinion this game, or does his off-the-cuff town read of Palmar come TOO easily? I'm not getting town vibes from VE, his style here seems to be passive enough that he's confident town will tear itself apart as scum or he's simply too busy with other things that unless he is under direct threat of lynch he will be around just enough to keep above the activity level of some of the scummier lurkers. I think he's mafia, but I've been wrong every single time on my initial read of him that I'm leery of pushing it unless it makes enough sense to at least one other person. I screamed at Vivax for the meta case because I have little faith in them - they are just usually excuses for people to mischaracterize another person's play with no context and ignore what is happening in the current game. Vivax's next few posts went into detail on Oats play this game so it was a much better look and I came around. I played with Oats in Ego Mafia I think? He wasn't really standing out too much and that led to him being lynched as Scum. As to the bolded: For now it is too difficult to tell why VE is so casual towards Palmar and vice versa. They aren't actually trying to do anything which should result in a wagon but for some reason almost everyone just blissfully ignores them and lets them prance around. I agree that VE doesn't scream Town. He isn't trying to prove it at any rate which is a flag. He's clearly active enough to be watching the thread whenever his name pops up though. | ||
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On April 25 2013 05:13 Palmar wrote: I need a few things cleared up to proceed. a few things like what? | ||
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On April 25 2013 05:43 VisceraEyes wrote: ZHER INTERESSANT I'm left wondering how Ace knew the intimate details of the role before I did, when I'm a mason FANBOY. :/ Did I miss something in the OP that's glaringly obvious or something? | ||
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Palmar what is the actual case you have for lynching VE? | ||
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On April 25 2013 10:49 yamato77 wrote: Actually I'm starting to just think you're bad. good. Now do something about it. You're one of the worst posters in this thread and people are just too scared to get rid of you. You have been absolute trash. | ||
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On April 25 2013 11:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: haha WoS! Let's go into a shouting contest? I'm kinda drunk too. :D Ace why is VE not scum? Is there anything you find townie in his posts? I think he's more useless than Scum even with the small red flags earlier. I'm also hoping other people show up and weigh in before I vote for VE. We don't need a quick lynch today. | ||
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On April 25 2013 11:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: Ace are you okey with lynching Clarity? really indifferent on him. Like ShiaoPi he needs to show up and post. The good news is it's going to be Night 2 and Vigis will get active and eliminate all of these lurkers. | ||
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## vote Clarity_nl | ||
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We know Oats was a Town mislynch. The person who started the case was Vivax who also flipped Town. We know this wasn't a Scum started lynch but with a hammer of 13, I doubt it's possible that 0 Scum were on Oats' wagon. This is the list order: Oatsmaster: Palmar, kushm4sta, GiygaS, Vivax, raynpelikoneet, kushm4sta, Ace, WaveofShadow,yamato77,VisceraEyes,Palmar,getmoript, Mr. CC, Hopeless1der, Sylencia, ShiaoPi I'm going to remove myself and Vivax obviously. Ignore rayne for now because of his activity levels, and clearly yourself. Oatsmaster: Palmar, kushm4sta, GiygaS, kushm4sta, WaveofShadow,yamato77,VisceraEyes,Palmar, Mr. CC, Hopeless1der, Sylencia, ShiaoPi Almost this entire remaining list is full of low activity players. I highly doubt out of all remaining 11 names here not 1 is Scum and I think this is where we should start paying attention. A townie is getting lynched and just too many people that lurk are on here and not all of them can be Town. It also just so happens that VE and ShiaoPi are on this list too. With vigis waking up tonight I'm all for them clearing out the lurkers on this voting list, while we potentially lynch from here. Of course one suspect (Clarity) isn't here but we can discuss that too. Thoughts? | ||
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On April 26 2013 05:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Also, for anyone accusing me for being scum based on my lack of contribution. Please filter dive your beloved Ace and Palmar and tell me what either have done to convince you of being town. Both are "active" while not actively helping the town in any positive way. Since when would Ace base his reads/lynch of the reads of another player. Go read his game history. Ace does the shit ace wants to do and pushes it when town. He is not taking this town by the reins or even actively attempting to lead the lynches. Palmar is in the same boat. What is this? For the past 3 years I've pretty much been calm about the way I do things. You're case boils down to me not being a super aggressive player when in the last 2 games I played here in months - both times I was passive and not yelling at people. I've never had one "style" and if you're going to blame me for not being aggressive at least be up to date on the way I've played recent games. If you were reading the thread I was one of the first people pushing the yamato lynch and then started asking people to vote for Oats. I don't know what else you expected to see. Instead of filter diving and mischaracterizing my play you should have looked at the chain of events that actually happened. On April 26 2013 05:45 BloodyC0bbler wrote: As would I. I am merely pointing it out based on the comment made about "why would town jail bc" I would want to lynch Palmar for same reasons people would say "lynch bc for" What people don't realize Is i took a firm stance day 1 on a lynch and Palmar nor Ace did. They sheeped. 2 things: 1 - since when is sheeping scummy? If townies don't sheep each other no one would ever get lynched. Trying to pass that off to make myself and Palmar look like Scum is lol logic. 2 - can you show me where I displayed sheepish behavior and point out an alternative? Seems like since I don't throw around a ton of suspects - which I rarely ever do and haven't played that style in over 5 years - you assume I'm not doing anything. On April 26 2013 06:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Basically this. In most games as mafia or town, Ace has a more "assertive" personality. IE he dictates the flow of the game as best he can. In either case he pushes his own ideals and when scum attempts to have this appear townlike. However. With such a generic apathy of who to lynch and no solid pushing / shooting down conversational avenues that aren't worth talking about he just lets the thread get cluttered. I believe he in day 1 advocated for a quick lynch. Why would a townie want a quick lynch when the more time to talk the better? Given his lack of assertiveness I have him as third party. Once again mischaracterizing my play. On day 1 I CLEARLY pushed for a yamato lynch, and then helped Vivax push his Oats lynch. It's clear as day. I don't know how you can characterize that as apathy. And just like I will say to Gigyas: We already had a discussion going for over 2 days. We have to eventually lynch someone - which is NOT the same as advocating a quick lynch. Unless you can prove there was some meaningful discussion happening that I ignored you're talking nonsense. Every game I've ever played with majority lynch I ask people to consolidate the wagons so we keep our focus unless something mind blowingly new pops up. That isn't stifling discussion in as much as making sure we stay on track. Once again you're stating something that did not happen. If I'm wrong on any of this point out the quotes, with context during the game that it happened and prove me wrong. On April 25 2013 15:59 GiygaS wrote: - Ace: People are saying he's scum because he's not been playing very well, and it's outside of his meta or something, so I decided to look through his filter. - Was one of or the first to point out the obvious thing that maybe, just maybe, Bill Murray wasn't actually claiming. - Something I noticed on day 1 is he seemed to not really react to posts for a while unless he was directly spoken to/about, or if there was an opportunity for a meme. - Voted Yamato with little reasoning. He doesn't actually give much reasoning for much unless asked on. Could be a playstyle thing like he says though. - Likes the oats cases, but provides reasoning for it. - Found a contradiction here: He wants us to take our time, and then really pushes hard for an oats/yamato hammer from there. - But other than day 1, he's been town in my eyes. More recently, he's been contributing valuable info and insight. For that reason, I've got a null read on him. Going to bed now, will try and keep updated with my phone throughout the day tomorrow. Where is the army of people saying that? Just like BC you're making stuff up. There is no contradiction in my quotes. The thread was full of endless speculation and the yamato situation that I was apart of. Someone points out we don't have a deadline. I immediately say ok - my mistake - ignore the part about we're wasting time. Vivax says his case is meta. The second part is me clearly saying we're not doing stupid meta cases because they are mostly bullshit. Vivax then says he has an actual case coming up - you know, one with effort. He posts his actual Oats case and the rest is history. I do not push for an Oats/yamato hammer there. That is blatant lying. I literally in your own quote ask for arguments and discussion between those 2, and only to bring up actual real cases to interrupt it. How did you get me asking for a hammer here? I even said I'd be willing to switch off of yamato at the time so why would I do that if I want a quick hammer? Now, I posted about the Oats list earlier but it seems to have fallen by the wayside so I'm going to go back there for a second. But with VE and Rayn looking Town, myself being Town, and Vivax dead that narrows the list considerably. getmoript is also looking assuredly Town so I;d remove him as a suspect too. Leaving us with: Oatsmaster: Palmar, kushm4sta, GiygaS, kushm4sta, WaveofShadow,yamato77,Palmar, Mr. CC, Hopeless1der, Sylencia, ShiaoPi I think for now leaning Town on Palmar is best. Simple solutions outside of Wifom show he is Town protted or Scum roleblocked via jailkeeper. If Scum were JK their own guy then Palmar probably has no powerful Scum role and is a goon. Even so - there was no pressure on him and the only person who could have possibly killed him Night 1 is 3rd party. That is a stretch and until we get more info that is the way to go. Oatsmaster: kushm4sta, GiygaS, kushm4sta, WaveofShadow,yamato77, Mr. CC, Hopeless1der, Sylencia, ShiaoPi Is my final list of real suspects and I've got my vote currently on ShiaoPi. I'm waiting for yamato's post he promised against BC or else he's the definitive lynch over ShiaoPi. I'd love for other people to chime in on this. Lastly someone clearly wanted Vivax, one of the most active players dead. Before he died he called out Clarity (who's been mia for ages), rayn (temporarily cleared), yamato (waiting on him), and ShiaoPi (bingo). 2 of these 3 outside rayne are also on the Oats wagon. Once again, I think this is our best path to go. If you have a strong case against someone that also hits Vivax's last reads and the Oats wagon I'm all ears. | ||
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On April 26 2013 12:06 GiygaS wrote: Stop lying. What lie? Vivax listed people that said they would vote/prefer Oats. How is that advocating a quick hammer? | ||
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On April 26 2013 12:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: Apparently i can't sleep. :E Ace: I think you are being kinda wishy-washy regarding me. I don't like you saying i'm "temporarily cleared because of activity". If you think i'm town say so, if you think i'm scum, say so, if think i'm null, say so, but don't "clear" me for now because of activity. as you have said, activity has nothing to do with someone being scum/town. I don't like ShiaoPi lynch as much as Clarity as why i have said earlier (ignore the VE voting for him part), mainly because of my analysis of the NK's at the start of D2. I want to hear more from yamato/BC regarding BC's case, i think yamato's answer was weak, he just said "no U scum, i'll tell more later". I could write something about WoS, but not tonight. I think he has a fair chance of flipping mafia, but Clarity is more likely imo. I didn't like how Mr.CheeseCake accepted geript's case on GiygaS, as the case was full of nothing. I want him to tell why he did so. I think you're Town but I always think in terms of leaning/Protown and Confirmed Town. So when I say temporarily cleared it doesn't mean you are Scum - just me really saying you aren't confirmed. I'll try to be more clear from now on. I'm liking ShiaoPi more than Clarity because of the Oats wagon. But Vivax accused them both so it's not a big deal for either wagon especially when both are just chilling right now. Yamato still missing is of course a big deal. | ||
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On April 26 2013 12:12 Sharrant wrote: Ace, why did you leave clarity out of that? You wanted to lynch him with me earlier, remember? Do you think shiaopi was really mafia and just sort of super soft bussing tube despite tube being under no real pressure? I included clarity too, I just focused more on the Vivax reads that also hit the Oats wagon. He isn't off the hook. I didn't think ShiaoPi was bussing tube. Shiao has no thread presence and is a popular suspect - if he's bussing it would literally get him no where. What post did you see him make that made you think it was possible? | ||
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On April 26 2013 12:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why is this as we can't know if yamato is mafia or not? I don't understand. how does yamato flipping correlate with Shiaopi over Clarity because of the Oats wagon? | ||
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On April 26 2013 12:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah i understand it now. However, whatever yamato is, i doubt all scum were on Oats wagon. That's why i think this tells little about Clarity/ShiaoPi and their chances of being mafia (i mean, their chances of being scum just by analyzing D1 wagons as numbers). One thing that bothers me is people saying ShiaoPi is mafia because he hammered Oats (especially if yamato is town). Oats was L-1 and we were waiting players to consolidate, don't you think scum would be more careful with hammer in that situation? I dont think all were on it either, just some. Hammering someone isn't scummy, especially if we've discussed it for that many hours. Even so I don't remember ever saying ShiaoPi is Scum because he hammered Oats. As an aside, hammering is usually scummy when you don't give someone a chance to do anything, Oats was around long before the hammer dropped. On April 26 2013 12:31 GiygaS wrote: Ace there was a 30 minute time delay between you telling everyone to settle down and wait, as the day is infinite, to you telling people to "not stall the fucking wagons" in bold. How is this not pushing for the lynch? How is telling people who haven't voted for oats to vote for oats not pushing for a hammer? Telling people that said they would vote for someone - to actually use their votes isn't scummy. Not stalling the wagons = stop bringing up people just to throw around names. I've always been that way once I feel we're on to something. Hence why I even said dont bring anything up unless you have an actual case. Clearly I'm pushing for a lynch of someone I think is Scum. I mean, I don't even know why you are stating that as if its a bad thing. I don't think you understand what a makes hammering someone scummy. For one I only pointed out the people who said they were voting and didn't - like you already quoted. Secondly, hammering someone is not scummy. If it is we'd be vigi shooting everyone who places the last vote on a wagon. You're being ridiculous. | ||
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OO Bill Murray is an eccentric kind of player. It is very possible he didn't read the thread, or read it and saw something no one else did and chose to comment on it. That is just how he is. | ||
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) because people are blaming him for being the hammer vote which isn't Scummy. Got ya. So now you'd rather look at Clarity/yamato? | ||
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Sharrant besides stutters, what do you think about lynching Clarity and then viging into the Oats' suspects I named? | ||
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On April 27 2013 00:24 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm null on Clarity...there's just too many other more scummy people to me. outside of Palmar which ones coincide with the Oats list? On April 27 2013 00:33 VisceraEyes wrote: The thing is, Yamato DID say "I'll respond to this when I have time" So I mean, what you say may be true, but what Yamato says could be construed as doing exactly what you say. It's subjective. We really need him to respond to the case. Yep, but yamato not responding hasn't been forgotten. @VE: dont you think Clarity's posts that Sharrant outlined show him trying to blend in and not read the thread, as opposed to Shiao who actually showed up with explanations of his inactivity? | ||
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He probably hasn't caught up because he has no time, but how is that more guilty than Clarity's case that Sharrant made? BTW I'm clearly willing to switch, but I want to get your reasonings correct. Because some of the people hopping on the wagon might be sheeping you. If they don't even understand your reasons for voting and sheeped that looks bad on them. | ||
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On April 27 2013 06:03 VisceraEyes wrote: Is that a crime? Then why say it? I never even mentioned him sheeping Palmar to vote me. I mentioned him saying KUSH was voting for me as evidence that he's clearly not reading the thread (EITHER thread, he didn't ever vote for me in either one), but not in the context of Shiao sheeping anyone. He's lying Ace, and not innocuously. Why would he lie about reading the thread if he's town? I mentioned it because Palmar was also trying to get you lynched but it was partly sarcasm. I understand the point of ShiaoPi not reading the thread - I'm asking how does that make him more guilty than Clarity? Remember Clarity hasn't even shown up since Sharrant blasted him. | ||
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On April 27 2013 06:09 VisceraEyes wrote: I'll kill the evil I can see. I thought you were a proponent of vigs clearing out the trash Ace? I am but also just trying to understanding your reasonings. Maybe I'm misreading it but ShiaoPi didn't lie when he said Kush voted for you. One of the last updates in the voting thread has Kush on your wagon, the subsequent one doesn't. @BC: Shiao jumping on VEs wagon means exactly like he's stating - sheeping Palmar. I fully believe he isn't reading the thread as well as he claims. But he could just as likely be a Town player without enough time trying to piece things together haphazardly. In clarity's case he specifically said he read everything and came to some alarming conclusions which Sharrant pointed out. I think the latter case is clearly worse. | ||
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On April 27 2013 06:20 VisceraEyes wrote: That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that he lied when he said he read the thread. He didn't, or he'd know that Kush didn't vote for me, ever...in either thread. In fact, kush is "1 trillion percent sure" that I'm town. actually he's right here and you're wrong: On April 27 2013 03:18 iamperfection wrote: ~~~ Vote Count ~~~ VisceraEyes (3): Palmar, Kushm4sta (1) Bill Murray GiygaS (2): grush57, getmoript Palmar (1): VisceraEyes ShiaoPi (4): Clarity_nl (5): Sharrant, Ace, Stutters695 (0): Ace (0): yamato77 (1): BloodyCobbler Remember, this Day ends when a majority is reached. As soon as a majority is reached, please stop posting until the Night Post has been posted. Only votes in the voting thread will be counted! The voting thread can be found here: (link) With 23 alive it takes 12 votes to lynch. Shiao is right, kush did vote for you. I'm starting to think he's a clear mislynch and Clarity is the correct lynch. @BC: Let's imagine ShiaoPi is indeed Scum. Ignore everything he has done and keep it extremely simple. He shows up, barely reads the thread and posts some nonsense...then votes for VE despite being one of the leading Scum candidates. Why wouldn't he just throw his vote onto Clarity to save his own ass and mislynch that guy? throwing it onto VE when he is possibly going to get lynched does nothing. If he's Scum why do that unless clarity is also scum with him? | ||
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On April 27 2013 06:34 VisceraEyes wrote: That's a possibility. It's also a possibility that he was instructed NOT to vote for Clarity. Who the fuck knows or cares. I think Shiao is a better lynch out of the two, personally, so that's where my vote is. I care and it is a pretty big deal. Just putting the pieces together: 1.)Not reading the thread which terrible Scum and terrible Town both do 2.) this is also in response to rayn: Shaio's reads are pure sheeping. He clearly wants to get rid of VE even though him and Palmar have done the same thing. Possible Scum motive too. There is a problem tho. 3.) If 2 is true - then why not push for VE to die even more? there is no big sentiment for VE dying so why would he attach himself to this?If he's Scum why not take the easier path and get rid of clarity? Doing this also saves his own ass. I can see a townie not reading the thread and not aware of the danger making this mistake, but a Scum player who has teammates? i doubt it unless the Scum team is absurdly dumb. 4.) The little tube comment is a small point in his favor. could be WIFOM but we also gave you credit for that too. 5.) This is the biggest issue here: Oatsmaster: Palmar, kushm4sta, GiygaS, Vivax, raynpelikoneet, kushm4sta, Ace, WaveofShadow,yamato77,VisceraEyes,Palmar,getmoript, Mr. CC, Hopeless1der, Sylencia, ShiaoPi from the other day. ShiaoPi (7): VisceraEyes, Ace, kushm4sta, yamato77, GiygaS, Mr. Cheesecake, WaveofShadow, Stutters695, getmoript, Visceraeyes, raynpelikoneet, Hopeless1der from today. Removing you, myself,rayne and getmoript from previous discussion about the Oats list look at that overlap. A confirmed Town death list and Six names pop up that coincide with both lists at some point. Look at clarity's list: Clarity_nl (4): Sharrant, Ace, Bill Murray, raynpelikoneet, ObviousOne,GiygaS, grush The only names that hit both lists are myself, rayne, and gigyas. I came off, and rayne is Town in my eyes right now. gigyas is the only non-unique name to both lists. What's the coincidence that this happens? Clairty's voting list looks far more legit relative to ShaioPi's wagon when both are matched vs the Oats' list. ShiaoPi is most likely Town at this point. | ||
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On April 27 2013 07:02 yamato77 wrote: Why do people act like I should be vigged? If you can't push for my lynch, stop saying dumb bullshit. didnt you promise cases vs BC and VE? if you were town wouldnt you go write them instead of arguing about shit that doesn't matter? | ||
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On April 27 2013 07:06 WaveofShadow wrote: Ace you make an interesting point but I just don't feel good about a Clarity lynch. How many of those 6 matching voters would you say are scum, and what would it mean if Shiao does turn out to be scum? *nods at the conclusion BC has drawn WoS I honestly don't know yet. I've got a few players I'm leaning Scum on but I won't say because I'm not 100% sure and it doesn't make sense to start more wagons and finger pointing. Lets solve one thing at a time. if Shiao does turn out to be Scum AND clarity doesn't then the matching voters look real townish and I'm just wrong. Why does a clarity lynch feel uneasy to you? | ||
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On April 27 2013 07:16 WaveofShadow wrote: And this is why I asked Ace my question earlier. I want to find out what he thinks it means specifically, otherwise it just looks like a derailing attempt. yea I am trying to derail the wagon. A wagon I helped start and now realize may be flawed. Respond to the scenarios I made instead of blanket statements. You guys want to lynch Shiao so like I did - assume he is Scum. Look at the list of events that happened and see how a Scum Shiao fits in. I'm not only using voting wagons as I outlined the Palmar sheeping too. From both angels, added in with Sharrant's case on Clarity ShiaoPi is a weaker lynch. He's just clueless townie. | ||
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On April 27 2013 07:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: My question remains. Why does ShiaoPi think Palmar is supertown and VE is scum when his reasons for VE being scum point at least as much, if not even more, to Palmar being scum. because he is clueless and not reading the thread. He is just sheeping Palmar. I dont think that is a strong enough argument to make him scum. | ||
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@VE: He is lying about reading and understanding. But thats why I also asked how is it worse than what Clarity did? re-read Sharrant's case. Even if you want to say they are both Scummy for lying: ShiaoPi's voting wagon looks much worse than Clarity's. Even if you think ShiaoPi is Scum, I think we can all agree there is some possibility he is just a clueless towny. No one has made that argument for Clarity with supporting points. I add in the wagons and its just icing. I'm looking at BOTH cases from 3 different threads of thought here. And they don't add up when you assume ShiaoPi is scum. | ||
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On April 27 2013 07:34 VisceraEyes wrote: Lying to town about reading the thread to make it look like he gives a shit and is trying isn't a "strong enough argument to make him scum"? There's no "evidence" in your posts, only hypotheticals and opinions. There's concrete proof that Shiao lied to the thread. CONCRETE Ace. Why are you trying to derail this lynch out of nowhere after saying earlier that you "were willing to switch"? I mean, this "bandwagon" stuff has been on your mind the whole time right? And EARLIER you said Shiao looked like a better lynch BASED ON THE OATS WAGON. NOTHING has changed ASIDE from the fact that NOW Shiao has LIED TO THE FUCKING THREAD ACE. I re-read Sharrant's case. I read ShiaoPi again. I looked at the voting thread AGAIN. I'm going back on my reads on a guy I myself originally wanted to lynch. Don't you think I have a damn good reason to derail it then? | ||
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On April 27 2013 07:42 VisceraEyes wrote: It's worse because Clarity came clean and said "Yeah that might have been an exaggeration" in exactly the same way that Shiao did NOT. what? so that one sentence undoes the entire Sharrant case, but ShiaoPi's explanation just isn't good enough? | ||
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On April 27 2013 07:39 VisceraEyes wrote: Ace here's a question. Why would a town ShiaoPi say that he's read the thread when he hasn't if all he's going to do is sheep Palmar with blatant disregard? Why wouldn't a town ShiaoPi just say "Hey thread, too long, no time, didn't read, sheeping Palmar"? he did say that On April 27 2013 02:35 ShiaoPi wrote: Well, that took a lot of time to read. Not so sure about whom to lynch now with tube getting modkilled (lol btw!). I also have very limited time during the entire weekend, which is obviously gimping me by quite a bit as I while only be able to drop by shortly during the evening/late night before I sleep. I am currently torn between clarity and VE. Going with VE for now because I think it is a good idea to sheep Palmar. Go figure. ##vote: VE If there are no direct questions to me in the next couple of minutes I'll be off to bed until I can come back on tomorrow at about the same time as right now. | ||
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On April 27 2013 07:46 VisceraEyes wrote: So your VCA completely undoes the Vivax case, but Clarity's explanation just isn't good enough? what does VCA mean? | ||
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On April 27 2013 07:48 VisceraEyes wrote: No, he didn't. He said he read the thread. Look at the top line. "Well that took a lot of time to read" indicating that he read the thread. He didn't ever say he didn't read the thread, he said he read the thread. What are you even posting that as evidence of him saying? He's got limited time. We may be wrong in saying he didn't read the thread at all, but I agree he hasn't been reading it well enough. He did admit to sheeping Palmar like you asked. This sounds like a difference of what degree did ShiaoPi actually read the thread causing an argument. I think it's now clear he read it a little and sheeped his Town read and hero Palmar. Vivax very clearly said he wanted to lynch Shiao FIRST today, and you're using Vivax as a rallying cry to get people to lynch CLARITY Ace. That's why I'm having a hard time trusting your motivations here. And why I'm not going to switch based on your voting analysis. huh? I'm not using Vivax to lynch Clarity. How is that even possible when I made it clear Sharrant's case is partly what I'm basing it off of. Vivax's original statement plus the Oats wagon is what originally led to ShiaoPi. You're confusing the two. The Vote Count Analysis isn't solely what's making me change. I'm going to try and make this clear once more: First thread of thought We have a voting wagon of a Town player making a case on another Town player. We know this because they are both dead and confirmed Town. Clear opportunity for Scum to jump on the wagon - this is where ShiaoPi comes in. When Vivax dies, he is hit on two different threads since Vivax, a confirmed Town player calls him out. Note this doesn't make Vivax's accusation correct - just free from Scum bias. Hold this as the first thread of thought in your head. We get to our current point today. I compare the current Shiao wagon with the original wagon on Oats. I notice there is a large overlap of similar names. For Shiao to be scum TWO things have to happen: majority of the overlap between Oats wagon AND Shiao's would have to be Town. That is a rare possibility in my eyes. When taken in context with the Clarity wagon we see unique voters on his wagon. I don't think all 3 of these things can happen coincidentally. Now hold this as the first thread in your head. Even if you think this doesn't absolve ShiaoPi as scum, and it shouldn't, when added together with other threads of thought it does. Second thread of thought ShiaPi not reading, or barely reading vs Clarity doing the same. The difference here is that Clarity got caught by Sharrant solidly for just looking at buzz words, skimming the thread and coming up with anything. He called out a policy lynch scenario that didn't even happen. ShiaoPi shows up and tells us he doesn't have much time, and is sheeping Palmar. Clearly, he isn't reading much but this IS possible from a town p.o.v.. This is the second thread, hold this in your head. Third thread of thought So now we go back to ShiaoPi's wagon and assume he is Scum. That means if he dies and flips Town a whole host of people are in trouble. But we aren't lynching for information so the next best case is to look at Scum ShiaoPi from a voting aspect. He shows up, isn't reading the thread much. He votes for you VE, and NOT Clarity. The only other real suspect on the block. Even if he is Scum and not reading - how could his Scum team let that happen? they would be incredibly dumb and lazy to do so. Why go after you, a guy who has no real wagon on him and not save his own ass? It doesn't add up if he is Scum. The only explanation is him being Town and not reading enough to know whats going on, or he and clarity are Scum. If the latter case is true then the Scum team would be making an effort to push someone else. No one else is being pushed well from what I can see. If there is point it out to me. We also give you credit for calling tube out, and he did the same. This is the third thread. When you take all 3 seperately there are indeed arguments to be made that ShiaoPi is Town. There are also arguments that could show him Scum - mainly Vivax's accusation and his non-reading ways to sheepville. But Vivax isn't proven to be correct and sheeping isn't a scum only trait. Sharran't case looks much stronger now and ShiaoPi's weaker. | ||
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there seems to be a real effort here not to vote for clarity, and if you believe them both to be Scummy I see no reason why anyone would hesitate to switch. Now I'm confident one wagon is preferred over another when it didn't seem that way earlier. | ||
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On April 27 2013 08:29 getmoript wrote: Ace, your points are bad and you should feel bad for making them. If clarity is scum, then that's two--TWO--scum who wholly afk'd. In that case, we can disregard the "can't have a lazy scum team" reasoning. Hydra just finished in a blowout (literally only 1 town death) because of lazy scum. Other than The Game, I can't think of an instance of an active, non-lazy scum team. Nothing says two members of the Scum team can't be lazy, and the other 3 active. That is entirely possible. If shiao is scum he can easily pop into the Scum QT and get an update on whats happening from the others. Please respond to my entire post about all 3 threads of thought and not just a small piece. Why is that a rare possibility in your eyes? Especially considering Oats was a mislynch, why is it hard for you to believe that it's mostly, if not all, townies? Scum hide off mislynch wagons ALL THE TIME. I'll agree that it's rare that there are NO scum on a mislynch wagon, but you can say the same thing about scum being on a scum wagon - generally they'll try and save their buddies, but sometimes there's scum on the scum wagon. Factor in the fact that Vivax died after pushing the Oats wagon. Why would scum shoot the guy who pushed the mislynch the previous day? Would that not draw MORE attention to the scum ON the wagon Ace? I dont believe Oats was all Townies because in a game with 13 players to lynch first day and the lynch taking 2+ days - there is no misguided quick lynch there. The wagon was also led by Two town players: Vivax and myself. They can easily escape blame here. That is a prime wagon to hop on to. That is the first situation in which we have a rare event of an all Town wagon happening. The bolded is false. It doesn't happen "all the time", and certainly not enough to make it a known recurring theme. And yes - there ARE sometimes Scum on a scum wagon. But that has nothing to do with what is going on here. Oats was town - that point is irrelevant to the discussion. We aren't analyzing a dead scum's wagon. Factor in the fact that Vivax died after pushing the Oats wagon. Why would scum shoot the guy who pushed the mislynch the previous day? Would that not draw MORE attention to the scum ON the wagon Ace? Lastly someone clearly wanted Vivax, one of the most active players dead. Before he died he called out Clarity (who's been mia for ages), rayn (temporarily cleared), yamato (waiting on him), and ShiaoPi (bingo). 2 of these 3 outside rayne are also on the Oats wagon. Notice clarity popped up here also, but it was sharrant who caught him on a totally different thread of thought. I used this to go after ShiaoPi. Even if you assume that Scum shooting vivax draws more attention to the scum on the wagon you assume Scum is thinking someone would analyze the wagon like I have. that is a stretch, and even if we assume it is true with 13 people on the wagon what exactly are they fearing? That scenario isn't plausible. with Vivax calling out both ShiaoPi AND clarity there is even more reason to look at what seperates the two. I don't see him lying about reading the thread as possible from a townie perspective. Obviously you disagree, but I just can't see a town ShiaoPi saying "I read the whole thread gosh it took a long time" when he clearly didn't read the thread at all. Yes, he's "sheeping Palmar"...but why? I mean if he has any kind of reasoning for thinking Palmar is town and says as much, that would be one thing BUT HE DOESN'T DUDE! His only reasoning is "His reads are similar to mine"....which if that's the case, then he's not really SHEEPING Palmar at all, simply voting with him! I think we're both admitting he didn't read enough. You think he didn't read at all, I think he read a little and didn't understand whats going on. I can't answer why he sheeps Palmar except his own words of sheeping a Vet. It is entirely possible he sees Palmar as a Town vet and decided to sheep his reads because he has little time. He isn't reading enough, doesn't see Palmar is probably just joke voting you and hops on. Entirely consistent with someone that doesn't understand what is going on. Voting with Palmar is sheeping him by the way. I dont know what definition of sheeping you are using but that isn't it. I'm interested to hear why you think I'm not a "real suspect on the block". Yes, I don't have as many votes as the other candidates, but SEVERAL players have been in here SCREAMING about how I'm scum. I've been a viable candidate ALL FUCKING DAY LONG. And how would he even KNOW this without reading the thread unless he's scum getting information from his team? As I said earlier - I agree with CC that tube's inactivity was bound to draw mod-action eventually and Shiao calling him out shouldn't give him any points just like it shouldn't give ME any points. If you're giving me points for that, whatever - but I'm not giving Shiao points for that because until halfway through today he had made ONE SINGLE POST in the game. No one pushed hard for your lynch, and you didn't have many votes. Last night, the threadwas clearly about Clarity and ShiaoPi. You weren't in danger at all. People scream about others being scum all day long - doesn't mean jack shit until they vote. Why are you making a big deal out of it? To the bolded: What? I think I know what you're trying to say but I want to be sure. Can you quote evidence of this happening? Where does he state this? | ||
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On April 27 2013 08:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: I do not think ShiaoPi voting for VE over Clarity tells us much just looking by the fact that who he voted for. In my opinion it matters a little on who your vote is on unless it's on the person who got lynched. Far more important is why people vote for people they do. Based on this point of yours Ace, would you call yamato town aswell? After all he did oppose Oats lynch later on on D1 very vocally. I don't think this tells much about yamato's alignment, as Oats was lynched and yamato certainly had no credibility to swing the vote on anyone else. Same thing here, ShiaoPi is one of the leading candidates. He does have no credibility to get Clarity or VE lynched, it really does not matter who he votes for just based on the vote itself. Worst case scenario (assuming he is mafia) is that he votes for Clarity and this action gives people more reasons to vote for him (assuming Clarity is town - as ShiaoPi can't possibly have rock-solid reasons for his vote). If he votes for someone else, it looks better on him (as is the deal here with you for example). And i think his reasoning for VE being scum is bullshit and points more to his hero Palmar than to VE, after all he did give reasoning why he thinks VE is scum, when i asked him about it. Other points you bring up might have merit, i need to look closer into them and decide what to do. First to the bolded: context matters. I dont think it, by itself tells all we need to know. But it is consistent with what he has been doing - sheeping Palmar. Thats what his vote tells us by itself. Once we remember he is at stake to die he just looks like a bad player not reading enough. It matches up with everything he has posted so far. I'm not calling yamato town and the scenarios don't even match. yamato not voting for Oats is because yamato is being an ass and doing whatever he pleases, clearly not caring about his possible death until now. He could be scum that knew the chances of him dying were low, or he gave up and was resigned to his possible fate. But he was clearly reading the thread, shiao wasn't. shiao doesn't have credibility but he doesn't need to lead a lynch. He just has to vote for Clarity to help save himself. He doesn't. he just sheeps as you stated, Palmar. it does matter who he votes for because if he is Scum, the best vote is for the other leading wagon. If he did that and as we all claim he is not reading the thread, it would be more points in moving the needle that way. But he doesn't, he just votes for his sheep master's read. It matches that he isn't reading enough to understand thread sentiment. The only explanation as I noted before is they are both Scum. | ||
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On April 27 2013 08:54 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm saying he's not reading the thread. How would he know that I'm a viable lynch candidate if he's not scum getting information from his team (i.e. townShiao as you posit). But you disagree that I've been a viable lynch candidate. I'm basing it on thread sentiment, you're basing it off votes. I think they're equally indicative in games, you must not. But it doesn't even matter anymore because I'm through wasting energy trying to argue with you about it. I think they both look really bad (all this time I've been rereading Clarity's filter/Sharrant's case) and I want the rest of town to provide opinions rather than scream over and over that one piece of shit is smellier than another piece of shit, so to speak. Where does he call you a viable lynch candidate? if he says this and is not blatantly sheeping Palmar again your point stands. Notice I AM basing it off thread sentiment. I think you're either paranoid or overblowing how much people wanted you dead. I may have missed it but I never got the vibe you were really going to be lynched today over the other 2. | ||
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and likewise if he flips Scum? What are the next paths that we take? | ||
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@getmoript: that makes everything even simpler. Just let clarity get modkilled and we vote ShiaoPi based on the flip. | ||
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On April 27 2013 07:20 WaveofShadow wrote: For reasons I explained here: Ok I assume this is it. Thought I replied. I'm guessing you want more time from clarity since he appears new player like to you? I mean I dont agree with it since he's been gone so long, and ShiaoPi showing up atleast gives explanation to a possible town flip. I can't promise that there wont be a mislynch, no one can. it is entirely possible clarity is just new, but there is no explanation for him being new + not scum yet. ShiaoPi at least has one. | ||
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"Showing my work" is one of my biggest claims to fame. And my activity levels are high in a bunch of games. I dont see why that would make you uneasy right now as it is not indicative of my alignment. | ||
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cops---> Oatsmaster: kushm4sta, GiygaS, kushm4sta, WaveofShadow,yamato77,VisceraEyes,getmoript, Mr. CC, Hopeless1der, Sylencia, ShiaoPi: VisceraEyes, kushm4sta, yamato77, GiygaS, Mr. Cheesecake, WaveofShadow, Stutters695, getmoript, Hopeless1der ShiaoPi-->temp green.Sharrant--> green | ||
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On April 28 2013 06:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sorry guys had to take a shower. I'm going to explain soon why VE and yamato are probably scum. Third scum i'm not sure of yet, leaning on Sylencia/WoS/Hopeless. I also strongly think Palmar is third faction. Sharrant & Ace kinda confirmed town, doc/jailer on them kthxplz. On April 27 2013 07:13 Ace wrote: didnt you promise cases vs BC and VE? if you were town wouldnt you go write them instead of arguing about shit that doesn't matter? re-read VisceraEyes from ShiaoPi arrival ---->b4 Clarity flip--> paranoia On April 27 2013 09:06 Ace wrote: Where does he call you a viable lynch candidate? if he says this and is not blatantly sheeping Palmar again your point stands. Notice I AM basing it off thread sentiment. I think you're either paranoid or overblowing how much people wanted you dead. I may have missed it but I never got the vibe you were really going to be lynched today over the other 2. On April 27 2013 09:12 Ace wrote: You weren't getting lynched, stop it. 3 of those guys are voting on whims. You said there was some thread sentiment out to get you and it never happened. I remember because hours ago we all talked about temp clearing you to look at the Oats wagon. You were not going to go down. On April 27 2013 09:59 Ace wrote: I always try to show my work VE. why should that make you uneasy | ||
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On April 28 2013 06:55 Bill Murray wrote: parroting an earlier thread sentiment says the word sounding as if he could know they are not "more or less" town really ambiguous wording fos ve ![[image loading]](http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/760/085/applause-gif-tumblr-47_original.gif?1363040789) | ||
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On April 28 2013 06:40 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Wait he claimed miller? Shoot him instantly ???y | ||
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On April 28 2013 07:22 TheRavensName wrote: So why shoot me? Remember the modkilled scum tried to look active and kill me, and if you looked you would know I can't be scum. My question: Why has no one really addressed WoS yet? he just claimed self aware miller but didn't counter claim before, and looked through the thread again Everyone has said WoS is scummy and yet no one except a very few amount of us have even tried to make a case against him. Wos--->filter--->alibi!!!!!! re-read! no vig yet till that. | ||
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On April 28 2013 07:40 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Why wouldn't you kill him? WoS at that moment was in no danger to being auto killed IMO and he claimed self aware miller. We already had this talk day 1. I believe my stance is straight forward. Although I can think of a few reasons not to Wos--->filter--->alibi!!!!!! re-read! no vig yet till that. | ||
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On April 28 2013 06:19 Ace wrote: keyboard went bad. vigilante Yamato77. re-read VisceraEyes filter. med me. cops---> Oatsmaster: kushm4sta, GiygaS, kushm4sta, WaveofShadow,yamato77,VisceraEyes,getmoript, Mr. CC, Hopeless1der, Sylencia, ShiaoPi: VisceraEyes, kushm4sta, yamato77, GiygaS, Mr. Cheesecake, WaveofShadow, Stutters695, getmoript, Hopeless1der ShiaoPi-->temp green.Sharrant--> green On April 28 2013 07:42 Ace wrote: Wos--->filter--->alibi!!!!!! re-read! no vig yet till that. look @OP! | ||
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Sirius Black (Un-Self-Aware Miller) ! Snape (Self-Aware Miller): On April 28 2013 06:01 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh and don't bother not vigging and trying to DT check me because I'm self-aware miller. You guys need to decide if you don't trust me and want me gone or not. Crumbs?-->alibi On April 22 2013 02:55 WaveofShadow wrote: HEURISTIC Ok hai guise I'm awake. Bill Murray has gone and done a very interesting thing and I'm not so sure I understand his line of thinking in millerclaiming so early. Waiting on dat Palmar explanation. CC you're so town-looking this early you've gotta be scum. Jes' sayin'. Also Getmoript I didn't realize you guys were hydra-ing. Is it Geript/Mocsta? If so I think my earlier comment about you finding me scummy every game still pretty much applies since you both do it, really. Um...real talk don't have much by way of reads yet, but VE looks to be town to me. Let the Day 1 shitfest continue and let's all learn something fun! Remember to swish and flick! On April 22 2013 05:24 WaveofShadow wrote: Millers totes important, bro. Hey Marv/Geript, still looking for an answer to my question you've so conveniently ignored. On April 22 2013 08:18 WaveofShadow wrote: To be fair, I'm sort of curious myself as to what exactly BM's play means and am hesitant to comment too much on the state of Rayn's tunneling until I really understand if it makes sense or not. Your case is good but as far as I'm concerned it's too early to focus entirely on just one person and try to garner everyone's town votes. Still waiting on a response Geript; nice to see a vote on you actually was enough to cause some sort of a reaction. And I don't go for that 'mod-confirmed' shit either. I'll keep it in mind but I refuse to ignore him just because of it. Especially since 3p is still quite possible (and imo, likely with 3 possible 3p roles). ##Unvote: Getmoript I want to hear more from CC or kush at the moment. | ||
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On April 28 2013 12:44 ObviousOne wrote: RED TEXT he just claimed self aware miller but didn't counter claim before | ||
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On April 28 2013 12:50 raynpelikoneet wrote: Anyone who is mafia could make those "crumbs" in case they had to claim something. Why are you only looking at this and not how and when WoS claimed, what does this mean if he is mafia and why the fuck would he claim if he was town? rare. showed interest in resolution! | ||
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On April 28 2013 12:56 ObviousOne wrote: THIS GAME IS HARD TO PLAY WHEN PROLEAGUE IS STREAMING ARGH SO MUCH DELAY THIS WILL TAKE INORDINATELY LONG TO PUT TOGETHER WoS said he tried to breadcrumb miller without claiming OP says role numbers are unknown TRN asked why there was no counter-claim Ace says look at WoS filter so we look (not quoting with timestamps page loads are taking FOR FUCKING EVER): - SENSITIVITY TO MILLER ROLE BM did not claim, but WoS was willing to take it as a claim because he is aware that there can be more than one. - FIRST LINE OF SECOND QUOTE Why is miller totes important? It's not. It shouldn't be IMO. So this stands out. Reads as soft claim. | ||
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@rayn: earlier I said self aware millers should claim with known role counts. but seeing people call him to be shot WoS claims. So I was saying go back to the beginning of the game and see if he said anything regarding Millers. He was clearly interested in Bill Murray's situation. If he is Scum he is running a long con, and sticking with it nicely. Being as I view WoS as kind of incapable of making such a play - based on my run in with him in Ego mafia and him not understanding something I deem basic - I doubt he's doing it. If he is he has experienced Scum on his team, and with Clarity and tube flipping I dont know how much we can trust that route. He might still be scum, but I dont think his claim puts him that way. If enough people want him shot - list those players and their reasons. How many of them are people you trust to be Town and have legit reasons? Look at yamato and VE. VE looks bad when clarity flips because of his resistance. re-read that interaction! yamato has been promising cases on BC and VE for over 3 days now and has never delivered. Both are paranoid of me being Scum which is absolutely dumb since I would have just killed my Scum vigi and drop our factional KP by 2. On April 28 2013 13:07 Sharrant wrote: Ace, what are you feeling on Hopeless? He's been on the wrong side of both lynches so far in the worst way possible. Unlucky town, or mafia? Very scummy looking or just dumb. Like VE seems super paranoid about me being Scum even with all that just went down to secure clarity's lynch. Not even pretending to read the thread. His entire reasoning rests on "some Vets must be scum" which is a ridiculous line of thinking, and a pretty poor place to start off of considering we have voting lists and 2 Scum flips. Now I wont have access to this computer all the time so I'll be back on my laptop playing charades and shit with you guys. | ||
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On April 28 2013 13:33 yamato77 wrote: Ace, if you're town, you seriously need your head examined if you're just going to throw shit at me the whole game while never substantiating your claims. I'm very undecided on how I should view your continued lack of effort in this department, because you seem more than willing to talk about ANYTHING but analysis of my alignment, which I have repeatedly asked for from you and you have repeatedly ignored. I literally can't get past this roadblock in my mind, so you need to step it up. are you dumb? You've promised analysis several times and have not delivered - check appeared on voting wagons where we believe scum to be - check posted a poor post in defense of the clarity lynch trying to derail the bandwagon at the last minute and accuse shiaopi - check + Show Spoiler + On April 27 2013 17:14 yamato77 wrote: So I kind of re-skimmed the thread and looked over what people have said, finally, and this post by Shiao is quite bad: Much has been said about this entrance, but it was horrible, for a number of reasons. While it can be reasonably assumed that he is actually busy, the amount of this post used to excuse his own inactivity is mind-blowing. He has no original thought about the game, and doesn't seem to care about giving us any valid reasons for voting for VE outside of Palmar's lackluster efforts in pushing for the lynch. And then there's the bolded, his "reaction" to the tube modkill, that sets something off in my head. It seems unnatural and forced to go "(lol btw!)" in the middle of this post. I'd be happy with lynching him, if we feel we need to consolidate on a lynch. I've advocated playing a waiting game, but I saw it mentioned that we've only really talked about lynching between him/Clarity today, and I agree, so perhaps it is best if we move on. Another thing I thought to look at was the WHOLE votecount from day 1, not just the Oats wagon: There are some changes to this: So the votecount itself is somewhat difficult to analyse, seeing as most people were either on me or Oats, but the people on Rayn do seem out of place, and it is even more weird that two of them managed to get themselves on to Oats before his lynch; Sylencia and Hopeless. Also note that Shiao's only vote of the whole day was the hammer on Oats. And people want to say that it isn't scummy? Yeah, no. But as before, there were multiple vote changes inbetween, and they are worth looking into. To begin why did Sylencia decide to change to Oats? Seems more of a case for voting for "bad town" than scum, which seems like a slip of a scum mindset, in my opinion. Why? Because it is something I run into as scum, how to formulate a read on a town player and call them scum so I can vote for them. Most of the time, it is "bad town" that get mislynched, so the difference becomes vague. Justifying a vote by saying that someone is "bad for town" is an easy scum out, because town players can and will be anti-town on many occasions. Yet this is Sylencia's mindset, and how he justifies the vote on Oats. Just from this voting analysis, I feel he might be mafia. I have yet to analyse his filter in totality, but given this, I will definitely give it a look. Hopeless. + Show Spoiler + Get it? Anyway, this is Wonder's SECOND EVER mention of Oatsmaster, and the first one where he gives any inclination of thinking him mafia. AMAZING! HOW DID HE REACH THIS SECRET CONCLUSION?!?!?! Wow. I'm not saying this is totally regurgitation of other people's arguments, but it is. This also come AFTER his vote, where he's fully aware that he's putting Oats one vote away from lynch. And then guess what happens... I unvote (temporarily delaying the lynch), Sylencia manages to vote AND: The hammer! This all happens within the span of ~2 hours, mind you, when I'm screaming at the thread not to lynch Oats. Say what you want about me, but all three of these votes are particularly HORRID, and all of them are either switches off Rayn (a wagon that seems inherently scummy, in that people that switched off it didn't seem to change their read on him much) or the player's first vote of the game. Is there a chance they are town? Sure. I'd probably say Sylencia has the most chance to be town, since when compared to the other two, his vote looks the MOST explained, despite the fishy nature of the post. The other two, however, give very little indication that they think Oats is mafia before they vote, and the hammer in particular looks like TEXTBOOK MAFIA trying to find a good reason to just lynch a town. Notably, I did something JUST like this day 1 of British Empire 1 (also instant majority), where I fabricated suspicion of a town-created wagon on a town player and managed to hammer him for the lynch. Only this is even worse, and more obvious, because they didn't even manage to look like they thought about it before obviously putting Oats in danger of, and actually being lynch. That's VCA done right, bros. And from it, I find the willingness to lynch the fuck out of Shiapi, because this is bullshit. No matter how much post-hoc justification he gives, there is only mafia motivation to be seen in what he has done. You clowned around all of day 1, almost got lynched and have shown no effort to step up. You've promised analysis on VE and BC and have failed to deliver. Telling the thread to just give you some more time. Yet you show up to blast ShiaoPi and not do what you promised. You aren't even trying to scumhunt - just throwing accusations at big name players. This apathy and lack of effort, that you yourself promised, shows you aren't focused. If you thought any of us you named were people you wanted lynched you would have made a case by now on us - not a case on ShiaoPi and ignoring clarity completely. GG scum. | ||
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On April 28 2013 13:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: CheeseCake, Palmar, Sharrant (him not convinced yet though): + I have said this on N1 and my read has never dropped: + TRN So that makes CC/Palmar/Me/TRN/somewhat Sharrant. I do not think any of those people are mafia. WoS claimed right after CC-Palmar-Sharrant posted. Overly defensive in the first place, now he says he wanted to avoid a DT check and mislynch on him. Bullshit i say, noone even mentions him being a good check. none of them gave reasons to shoot him rayne. Sharrant asks for convincing. Palmar sheeps Mr.CC, and both of them are on the lists with WoS. he said he'd want to avoid a DT check - thats somewhat fishy at first glance, but when he claims Miller it makes sense. It's purely survival mode after being called out - and he did say he wouldn't mind being shot. I dont think Scum would call that bluff right now. I think we should wait for Palmar and Mr.CC to give legit reasoning for wanting WoS shot. I think he has a possible Town motivation here, stronger than a scum one. He isn't the best vigilante shot tonight. The guys pining for him to be are more suspect. | ||
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On April 28 2013 13:45 ObviousOne wrote: This post needs more Dwayne Johnson gifs IMO. Do you agree that Palmar could be mafia based on his play by proxy? Would he step back and let town tear itself apart if he's the only veteran who is mafia? So far he's been sticking with the play-style for the most part (a lazy style IMO). Ignore the spoiler if you hate pre-flip association thoughts + Show Spoiler [speculation/pre-flip association] + IMO I don't see him doing that if ACE BC BM VE DOCH are all town, BUT! it's possible that mafia has some power roles and DOCH/stutters is mafia as well (someone who when he's around is hyper-active early game, or at least that's the idea I get from 1-the podcast where he talked by himself, the beta cast and 2-he burns out quickly when he's scum), like we just learned with today's flip they had a vigilante in Clarity, and role #s are not known, they could have more. This needs a flip to have any credence so I guess i'll shut up about it for now. But the question again so it's clear, does it make sense that Palmar would play by proxy solo if he's the only scum vet in such a potentially strong town? I could see him doing that. I dont view his laziness, by itself, as a scum tell for him. But not commenting on anything and just sheeping votes is not a good look. He's evaded scrutiny thus far because his name is Palmar. Likewise so has BC. It could be very possible they are both Town and like the way the game is going, seeing no reason to jump in and so too much just preferring to ride the wave. But I'm a little skeptical on that when it comes to BC because he voted for ShiaoPI even after I illustrated why he could be Town. I'd expect him of all people to absorb that one and get it instantly. | ||
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But the question again so it's clear, does it make sense that Palmar would play by proxy solo if he's the only scum vet in such a potentially strong town? Yes. If his team is weak, looking at the setup with so much potential KP around - he goes into survival mode and lurks. Just killing whoever is right at night, and sheeping random town by day. As long as he avoids confrontation everyone else dies. | ||
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It's a soft town claim, but the targets he lists also make a lot of sense in the grand scheme, so I really can't call it either way. Does this specific way of soft-claiming trigger anything with you? No it doesn't. Although BC not giving reasons for why those 2 guys should be shot is fishy. He then wants WoS to be shot too. Those are literally his only contributions: who should be killed. 0 validation why. Ace. What do you make of the fact that WoS himself said he agrees with BC's post where BC said millers should never claim? That's it. That's the contradiction in itself, and that should be enough to shoot him asap. 2 things: 1.)Like I said in Ego mafia - WoS is not experienced and doesn't understand things I deem basic. He isn't aware of "meta play" or "mostly correct strategy". He agrees with BC's post and doesn't claim early game. That is consistent so far. His mistake seems to be claiming now. 2.)I think its possible for both town and scum to claim when faced with a vigi shot in this instance. WoS has an alibi. I dont think he's capable of running a long con that well. For now, that means we should ignore him unless he is THE scummiest person around. There is no town motivation to insta-claim when people want you shot. A townie would think "crap, i have been so fucking wrong on D1 and D2. I have to relook everything and make my best to come up with the best reads possible. Then, if people do not believe me, i claim miller and have people shoot me." That's what a townie would do. There is. Think of it like a lynch. We get WoS to L-1 and say claim: he claims Miller. He's killed. Instead we say vigi him: he claims Miller - shot. In both instances as Town he is caught out there -what else would he claim? If he claims VT in the face of Vigi shots, survives the night because no one shoots him and a DT shows up with a guilty result on him he is fucked. He flips self aware Miller and post game we scream at him for being dumb and not claiming . If he didn't post about Millers earlier this would be a better indication of him being sure fire Scum. It doesn't completely absolve him but it doesn't make him the best shot either.However, if WoS is mafia, there are two possibilities. People take him at face value (look at what you are doing right here) and he does not get shot. He can't be copped any more. Win situation. If people do not agree on shooting him, but mafia has a reason to believe he will be shot, what then. THROW A FUCKING JAILER ON HIM! That's gonna be a fucking WIFOM-fest @ D3, might even lead to a vigilante claiming if they shot him Actually you're point about bringing up a jailer kind of exonerates him. Unless WoS is Scum jailer himself - he doesn't even need to claim. Just let the vigi shots ring and get protted. I'm taking him at face value for now - repeat, for now - because it is the simplest explanation we have. As the game goes on we'll see what we do with him, but right now his claim IS plausible AND we have plenty of other people to look it that are worse than him. If the best we have on WoS is "miller claim" going into Day 3 we are doing something wrong. Also no vigi should claim shooting WoS if he doesn't die. The only correct play is that all people agree on vigi shooting WoS, if he dies and flips town, he screwed up royally. But he is no longer a distraction. If he flips mafia, good. If he does not get shot, we lynch him on D3 as mafia protected him and he is mafia. Why take that path - why not look at other people? Compare their crimes to WoS's and decide who gets vigid? Dont tunnel the guy and he flips Town and we are standing around with no good direction off of it. No other self aware millers have flipped, no counter claims even with no role counts - just let it ride for now. | ||
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On April 28 2013 13:59 yamato77 wrote: I've provided almost all of the analysis I have promised, expect analysis of you, so that's a moot point. If you can't find analysis of BC and VE in my filter, you're not reading it. I fucked around PART day 1, sure, whatever. Doesn't make me mafia. I voted on Oats wagon, but guess what? So did you! AND, I was the only person who managed to realize that he was actually town, and tried to NOT get him lynched, so that's a non-issue. Your voting analysis is also shit and proves nothing about anyone, town or scum. I never "defended" Clarity, I simply found SHIAO a better lynch, and I would still stand by my analysis of his posting. Just because Clarity was mafia doesn't mean Shiao isn't. You may be right, I'm not completely focused on this game, but the effort is clearly there. I am here, in the thread, talking about my reads nearly every time I post. YOU are the one calling me mafia every time you post with ZERO fucking analysis to go along with it. Your "reasoning" for finding Clarity a better lynch is laughable. I have no reason to believe you weren't just bussing him for cred you would have lost should he simply be modkilled. I have no reason to believe you actually found Shiao town based on anything but poor conclusions drawn from the "wagons" of three players, when you didn't consider ANYTHING about the context of the votes, why they were made, or whether they were changed or not. It seems more like you just decided Shiao was town and had to find a reason to say so, rather than actually having analysed the information in the thread and reached a solid conclusion. But hey, shit on my analysis some more. I guarantee one of syl/shiao/hopeless is mafia. You don't think those votes are fishy as fuck? Of course not, YOU SAID IT WASN'T BEFORE! LOLOLOL Whatever. Shoot me. I'm obviously too angry to take this seriously. *yawn* link me to your analysis please, and show me where you tried to rally votes onto those suspects. I'm waiting. | ||
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btw you guys should read yamato's last post. Its a beautiful gem of tl;dr syndrome. | ||
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On April 28 2013 14:26 getmoript wrote: Awe Ace, why don't you want to talk about me? I dont have anything to say about you right now. Besides this yamato guy wants attention badly. | ||
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On April 28 2013 14:29 getmoript wrote: Ok, why did you think my point was bad? I responded to them the very day you made them. I talked about the makeup of the Scum team. Check my filter for that post. I respond to you and VE in it. | ||
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Palmar is 3rd party eh? why would you vigi over lynching him? 2 of the 3 possible 3rd parties in the OP have an extra night life, rendering vigi shots ineffective. Clearly you'd want to lynch the guy if you think he is 3rd party. how did both of you miss this? | ||
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On April 29 2013 03:44 VisceraEyes wrote: Why? Do you think I'm scum? What's the point of filtering myself to show you shit you could find for yourself? just show your work if you really have been doing anything this game. prove it. | ||
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grush wasn't super active and wasn't up for vigi shots so most likely Scum/3p kill. | ||
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On April 29 2013 08:33 ObviousOne wrote: I have the wit of a fox and the reflexes of a mongoose, but I am as bright as the NumLock LED on the average keyboard. | ||
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On April 29 2013 08:51 TheRavensName wrote: Rohan needs a little proof before it rides to Gondor. oooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ![[image loading]](http://iwannabeajedi.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/star_wars-animated_gif-7.gif) | ||
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On April 29 2013 08:59 Palmar wrote: Your annoyance I could foresee, you did not expect to have to deal with this today. You say I am not town, well let us fight then, to the death. BloodyC0bbler I hereby challenge you to a duel to the death. We will fight today, from sunrise to sunset. The field of honour will be this very thread. The ammunition, our words, the weapons their votes. One will walk, one will hang. Your move. funny as a role like this was in my setup for CC | ||
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what about VE makes him 3p but not scum? | ||
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On April 29 2013 09:22 BloodyC0bbler wrote: VE is normally (in my experiences that i remember) much less involved at all as scum. He appears primarily to defend himself and make "phantom" activity. Given the fact he has debated/argued lynch choices and was one of the major people actually attempting to force discussion of lynches during d2 I just can't see him as mafia. However his play currently is similar to his town play and is slightly similar to his play in storm as 3p. That is actually how I would characterize his play. His "activity" in day 2 consisted of me trying to show him how ShoaPi s wagon was potentially bad, and he mostated a few things in how events went down. He was completely lost in how we got to those 2 being lynched. He was overly defensive and paranoid up to the clarity flip. re-read day 2 from when shiaopi arrives up to clarity flip. I dont see how that sequence can be considered his Town play. His day 1 is just nonsense. | ||
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If you get a guilty result on BC with only 1 check, with no way to confirm sanity you're just hoping we're all dumb enough to buy it at face value. Fake claim + your day 1 actions dont match. ## vote Palmar | ||
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you're a cop, had got masoned, didn't post in the mason QT and didn't even think to investigate the guy you were masoned with? if you didnt trust him enough to post in the QT then where is the sense in checking BC out? explain. | ||
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CC - I dont know why you checked Shiao Night 1. That is a major stretch that you check him, he gets brought up, temp cleared, and then you check sylencia. thats 2 lurkers who have no impact on the game that you checked. not buying it. especially since you just claimed, without counter claiming Palmar. If you believe Palmar is a Cop there is no point in claiming right now as you'd let BC die with your vote. If you dont believe him, you vote him off. Claiming right now to add another suspect in the pool is nonsense. its not even been an hour since your case on sylencia - you could have pushed it ot let it marinate more. Your urgency shows little thinking here. Lastly, you also can not confirm your check. Shiao hasn't flipped. We've got 2 Cops, both unconfirmed claiming results on the same day within an hour of each other. Both that also appeared on the infamous Oats wagon analysis. bullshit. one of you is definitely lying and both of you made a bad play here. | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:34 Palmar wrote: lol Ace we ARE lynching sylencia. absolute worst case scenario is CC is scum and we lynch townies for 2 days before lynching or vigging CC in return, leaving us with plenty of townies and like 2 mafia left. something like 11 townies maybe? You're crazy if you don't lynch sylencia. you claimed cop, couldn't even substantiate it, voted to lynch BC off and are now going against that check to vote another unconfirmed cop's suspect off. you aren't this bad. stop it. | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:37 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Ace, are you stupid? ShaioPi is probably town -- you said it yourself yesterday. Of course, it's not confirmed. I'll give you that. My checks are real, though. Why else would I go through all the effort to suddenly make a case on Syl out of no where? We might have two cops -- either Palmar is the Insane/paranoid cop and I'm the sane one, or he's lying and he's being suicidal. Lynch Sylencia today. Was I supposed to let us lynch BC knowing full well that I'm the alignment cop with a guilty check on Syl? And that Palmar, if cop, is probably insane/paranoid? Bullshit. even if you assume Shiaoi is Town there is 0 reason to claim right now. Palmar is already leading a lynch to BC. whether you believe him or not you are under 0 pressure. And that is the biigest reason I dont believe you. because in a game with possible 3rd parties and scum KP if you're a real cop you wouldn't claim. You know your chances of dying are high tonight. You didn't even attempt to refute Palmar's claim and bought it at face value. We can only lynch 1 person at a time - why would you claim so quickly after another unconfirmed cop did? You are absolutely sure it must be syl that is guilty but have no inclination towards a Palmar/BC resolution. Why? | ||
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the pool of Palmar, VE, yamato, and now Mr.CC stinks. I dont believe both Palmar and Mr.CC can be so dumb as to not think their claims and current game situation out. Not buying it. | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:45 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Why would Palmar fakeclaim cop right now if what I don't understand if he's mafia. have you been reading this game? Look at my post referring to Palmar's Cop claim. There are a bunch of people being lazy and not playing this game seriously. I dont believe every single one of you are skating by on the lazy town excuse. | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:48 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I don't care if I die tonight -- I didn't even want to claim until Palmar was being stupid. If BC flipped town, and Palmar actually was insane cop, we mislynch him as well and THEN I claim? How would anybody believe me at that point? because then youd have 3 investigations and be sure of your sanity. you didnt think this through much did you? | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:49 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I wouldn't have claimed if Palmar didn't go full retard and give us a red check without any prior checks. The situation could have turned out STUPID bad if BC was town and Palmar was actually insane cop, hedging his bets on being sane. Palmar claiming should tell you not to claim. What ever BC flips has 0 bearing on you. Whatever Palmar flips has 0 bearing on you. How does you claiming help to resolve that situation? it doesn't. You could have easily just sat back and investigated whichever one of them lives through today to confirm your sanity. Lynching Sylencia does nothing. nada to clear that up. I refuse to believe you are this stupid. | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:52 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Yeah and then people would be blaming me for not claiming earlier if Palmar/BC were town. You have no idea what you're talking about. who the hell is going to blame you for that? you dont have any info on either one at the moment, and you'd show up Day 4 with 3 investigations + an investigation on the remainder of BC/Palmar. How did this fly over your head? it takes 2 minutes of thought to get there. | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:54 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Yeah and if I get hit during the night? Threatened to be lynched? I'm supposed to let us mislynch TWICE? Okay bro. crumb? I dont know - TALK your way out of a lynch. You haven't even been brought up as a suspect you are talking nonsense. | ||
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rape you both. lol @ Mr.CC claiming grush's death as an excuse for him getting shot. Stop it. | ||
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both of you buying each other's claims so quickly REEKS of scum play. just filthy. | ||
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![[image loading]](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-yXP1AG1axkY/TjZ1ONY5BvI/AAAAAAAAAhk/Vw-NpEIqneo/s1600/crossing-the-red-sea.png) | ||
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On April 29 2013 11:20 ObviousOne wrote: Why WOULDN'T people investigate lurkers, people who are unlikely to be FRAMED and in the absence of vigis will not be SHOT either? if you believe this then you are claiming Scum. Ve and Mr.CC's checks would be real implicating Sylencia and then you by extension genius lol. | ||
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On April 29 2013 11:35 getmoript wrote: @Ace, do you think that Palmar lied about the RB to cover him taking a hit? no. He could have easily been scum protted by town JK. his check on BC is just craziness. taken into context with CC it's just ridiculous. I'm thinking about accepting the fact CC is really just not that smart, and now Palmar and VE look really bad. VE night checking the same target as CC and not the people he's been calling scum all game is lol bogus. 2 of the 3 are lying imo. VE's checks look the worst and the most convenient. | ||
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lynching Syl no matter what he flips buys a fakeclaim time. If he is mafia they just ride around fake claiming and of he's town they just get more time to "figure stuff out". VE claiming with only 2 checks, after seeing Mr.CC claim AND hitting the same lurker target on Night 2 is unbelievable. Of all the people VE has called out how did it go from OO to Sylencia, with no wagons forming in between? VE when you checked OO, why did you never prod him or Sylencia for info? you were sure ShiaoPi was scum. The framer already got modkilled. Why wouldn't you check OO against the guy you have a scum read on couldn't get his alignment changed? | ||
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and that someone else happens to be the same person a claimed DT prior to you posting investigates. | ||
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On April 29 2013 11:54 VisceraEyes wrote: You can't tell me my actions don't match my claims because I haven't given any reasoning for my picks ACE. How can you say that they don't match when I haven't given them ACE? because your filter says otherwise. why would you go after people you never suspected? and if you wanted to give reasonings why didnt you give them the moment you claimed? because you fucked up your fakeclaim. But I'm interested - tell me what made you pick OO and Syl for investigations? | ||
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On April 29 2013 12:01 Sharrant wrote: Sylencia received a warning for inactivity, yes? This problem may solve itself, and we can look at a different lynch today. Or at least up until he flips, if he does not come back. I def believe sylencia can flip scum. but there is a major plot for future cred here and at least one of these cops, perhaps 2 are lying. and VE just dropped his claim with no reasonings period. Its almost as bad the other 2 but I'm willing to buy CC is just not used to this war zone. There is a major, major plot here and there is one more thing we can do and the fact that none of those 3 have said it paints a big, big red ball on their heads. Someone is definitely lying for sure. | ||
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On April 29 2013 12:06 yamato77 wrote: YEAH ACE, LET'S LYNCH THE COP CLAIM YEAH SO SMART this is why you are on the bottom rungs of the skill ladder. no thinking. we dont even have to lynch them yet dum dum. | ||
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On April 29 2013 12:08 Sharrant wrote: However unlikely it is, it's still possible for all 3 people checked to be town, is it not? If Shiao is miller, and CC is insane we could have 3 townies. Unlikely, I know, but still possible. And if OO and Syl are both millers and Shiao town it's also possible. Again, very unlikely scenario, but it worries me that we could lynch 3 people based on these claims and still have the possibility of hitting 0 scum. start here: Palmar: Cop VE: Parity Cop Mr.CC Cop Parity Cop has same/same on OO +syl. Mr.CC has green Shiao + red on Syl. there's a clash here but the potential miller issue screws us over. which is the problem for lynching anyone but a cop and at least one of them is surely lying. So there are two ways to do this. #1.) work through night analysis lynch Syl today, and whatever he flips lets us know Mr.CC's and VE's supposed sanities. If syl is Scum have Mr.CC investigate VE and have VE investigate Palmar, have Palmar investigate Mr.CC We dont need to jail any of them, because anyone of them who dies confirms something about the other except for Palmar's case. Scum roleblocking any of them wouldn't be enough to stop the other 2 from getting a legit check. If either of the 3 are lying it is revealed this way as the roleblock screws the scum team also. If there is a remaining DT they just investigate one of these 3 also. This situation resolves itself and kills any bus attempts and fake claim credit. 2.) The other way is to work backwards Assume syl is scum before the flip: Mr.CC - > sane OO = town. VE = parity cop (sane) Which means with Palmar on a guilty result on BC we'd have 3 sane cops in the same game or Palmar is paranoid. With Palmar being so sure of his check on BC then jumping on the Mr.CC claim at face value this looks very bad for him. He'd have to be a paranoid cop in this instance as 3 sane cops would break the game without some insane night killing power. Also notice these 2 scenarios dont take into account foreknowledge of the events of Day 1 and 2 to clear things up. With VE being a major suspect and Palmar being thrown around as 3rd party multiple times and possible scum those fake claims are actually the best way into endgame: bus a teammate for cred from Cop claims and kill the real counter claiming cop. All 3 of them can not be Cops. | ||
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Also this means Mr.CC if legit, is Sane detective. If he is sane, I doubt Palmar is also. Which means Palmar is Insane or Paranoid. That leaves a good possibility -> BC town. Flipping Syl this way allows the DT circle check at night to go through with what we know should happen. If any of them show up with wrong results (or gets killed) we know who is lying. Can you see a better alternative to figuring this out if we flip Shiao? | ||
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On April 30 2013 03:45 Stutters695 wrote: ebwop: sorry for the language. I'm looking at Ace now since WoS brought him up. He has kinda slipped by lately. what? I've been around the entire game - where could I have slipped by? VE -> Palmar Palmar->CC CC->VE Town JK dont target any of them, let town docs take care of that. roleblocking any of them will screw us. let scum worry about who to rb. | ||
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On April 30 2013 05:26 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Something tells me based on what im reading I would be yelling as much as you Ace -_- Palmar has a guilty on you tho - thoughts? @stutters: what exactly are you referring to is being based on assumptions and should be done another way? | ||
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On April 30 2013 05:55 Stutters695 wrote: I'm in my phone now so can't pull the exact quote but I remembered a detailed post about how people on the oats &ships wagons probably had a scum among them. Then your posts about cop claims and what they mean is all dependanrt on assumptions and thus could just be conjecture to appear active without giving out as much as you would with your earlier play which felt more solid to me. Since I'm a prime vig target and could easily die before or with Shiao i felt it worth bringing up because you're clearly able to pull off such a play. you have to start with some assumptions and go back to read each cops' posts. I dont see what else you expect us to do to figure this out - just take every claim at face value? You are like 4 days late with the Oats wagon analysis. It's been done to death and generally accepted by now. When you get off your phone just point out where the assumptions dont hold up and if it hasn't already been addressed I'll be here to talk about it. | ||
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On April 30 2013 06:00 Blazinghand wrote: Parity cops are affected by everything regular cops are. A parity cop checking a framed target gets the reverse of what would happen. Examples: Parity cop checks Qatol the Goon, who is framed to be Green, then checks a Incognito VT. returns SAME. Parity cop checks Qatol the Miller, then checks a VT. returns SAME. Parity cop checks Qatol the VT, who is framed to be red, then checks a VT. returns DIFFERENT and so on shouldnt Miller + VT = different? | ||
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On April 30 2013 06:04 WaveofShadow wrote: It's pretty simple isn't it? If Shiao and Clarity both scum then any wagon analysis you did comparing the Shiao/Oats wagons when you did are useless. we already said shiao could still be scum. We covered this like 20 times - go back and read it. Shioa WAS on the Oats wagon. Thats how we brought him up in the first place. It came down to which of the 2 was more likely Scum - Clarity or Shiao? Clarity flipped Vigilante Scum. Shiao is still alive and was on the wagon. Multiple players on the wagon are also still alive. Hence, the analysis holds. read it carefully. | ||
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On April 30 2013 06:13 Stutters695 wrote: Sorry I'm not making myself clear and I agree assumptions are necessary, but in addition to more question based analysis (and I do think your assumptions hold up as reasonable). It's more if Shiao flips red that kills a pretty major point of your contribution n2/d3 and it feels like your posting lacks the quality of your earlier posts in regards to discovering stuff in favor of theorizing which cop is lying instead of trying to determine which one/two are lying. This is probably just me being paranoid but it's something I've strongly considered when thinking what i I would do in scums shoes. I think you're confusing what I did with scum motivations I dont have. I acknowledged both could be scum. It came down to which is more likely scum. Before CC's claim and Sylv's flip: If I'm scum why would I take that path? why defend Shiao and have our Scum vigilante flip and drop our KP? hence Shiao being red = the analysis holds. Make sure you read the entire thing correctly. I think you're mixing up the Oats/Vivax stuff with the "whos the better lynch" between Clarity/Shiao parts. Remember: Shiao flipping scum means there indeed was Scum on Oats wagon which is what started the analysis. I dont understand the bolded: I am trying to determine who is lying. Or do you mean something else? | ||
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On April 30 2013 06:22 GiygaS wrote: But Shiao wasn't on the wagon, he voted VE, not clarity. I'm talking about the Day 1 wagon, not Day 2. | ||
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On April 30 2013 06:26 GiygaS wrote: Anyway, on Ace: Acted disinterested on day 1, and I still think what he said was a contradiction. His day 1 was anti-town. Since then, he's been a pro-town force. For his day 1, I still think he's 3p (not scum) for his day 1, but he could easily be town as well. Definitely not worth a lynch or vig at this point when we have the whole triple cop claim caper going on. what did I do anti-town Day 1? can you point this stuff out? !wos: what slip? im not scum I cant slip | ||
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On April 30 2013 06:27 WaveofShadow wrote: Ace, you compared the D1 and D2 wagons though in the middle of Day 2. Was Shiao on the Clarity wagon at any point during the day? quotes so I know exactly what you are talking about. and Shiao didn't vote for Clarity, he voted for VE which is why the whole "he isn't reading thing" came up. | ||
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On April 30 2013 06:29 GiygaS wrote: I've said this before, you only seemed to be interested in town discussion to post memes, and there was that contradiction I brought up a while ago that everyone seems to disagree with me on (the one where you told everyone to take their time and then 30 minutes later got everyone to get their votes on oats to hammer him, right after he actually started cooperating). I always post memes. and yes, there was no contradiction on the Oats lynch - pretty sure I answered this before. | ||
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On April 30 2013 06:31 WaveofShadow wrote: You're talking about this post I assume? I'm talking about THIS one. ok? what exactly are you asking about it? | ||
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On April 30 2013 06:35 WaveofShadow wrote: You spend the entire rest of that night derailing the Shiao lynch and use this vote count analysis as evidence. If Shiao turns out to be scum that's an awful lot of effort you put into derailing a correct train of thought, and also trying to implicate people who are on both vote trains at the same time. I derailed it because I thought he had a better chance of being town than Clarity- who did flip Scum. We also acnknowledged that yes BOTH could be scum. The vote count analysis IS evidence: If shiao flips scum it holds. I dont see what your point here is. Especially with clarity flipping Scum Vigilante - why would I save Shiao over him and drop Scum KP by 2 that night? whatever you're getting at doesnt hold up | ||
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quickly: How did clarity and ShiaoPi get brought up? | ||
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Use your head. | ||
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On April 30 2013 06:44 WaveofShadow wrote: Go ahead and tell me how they got brought up, my computer is slow. I vote Shiao Day 2. Ask Bill Murray what he thinks of him. Sharrant's case on clarity comes up, I switch to clarity. I also say the people voting for VE want him dead just because, and not because they think he is scum. <---this is important. If I'm Scum and would know ShiaoPi and clarity are on my team this is prime time to push VE. I then ask getmoript if he agrees clarity, ShiaPi and VE are our wagons for the day. pay attention. Once again - if those 2 are my scumbuddies why would I be the only person to narrow the wagons down and bring heat where 2 of 3 the players to get lynched are my allies? this is the analysis posts that kicks everything off: On April 25 2013 14:16 Ace wrote: Ok so check this out from my notes. We know Oats was a Town mislynch. The person who started the case was Vivax who also flipped Town. We know this wasn't a Scum started lynch but with a hammer of 13, I doubt it's possible that 0 Scum were on Oats' wagon. This is the list order: Oatsmaster: Palmar, kushm4sta, GiygaS, Vivax, raynpelikoneet, kushm4sta, Ace, WaveofShadow,yamato77,VisceraEyes,Palmar,getmoript, Mr. CC, Hopeless1der, Sylencia, ShiaoPi I'm going to remove myself and Vivax obviously. Ignore rayne for now because of his activity levels, and clearly yourself. Oatsmaster: Palmar, kushm4sta, GiygaS, kushm4sta, WaveofShadow,yamato77,VisceraEyes,Palmar, Mr. CC, Hopeless1der, Sylencia, ShiaoPi Almost this entire remaining list is full of low activity players. I highly doubt out of all remaining 11 names here not 1 is Scum and I think this is where we should start paying attention. A townie is getting lynched and just too many people that lurk are on here and not all of them can be Town. It also just so happens that VE and ShiaoPi are on this list too. With vigis waking up tonight I'm all for them clearing out the lurkers on this voting list, while we potentially lynch from here. Of course one suspect (Clarity) isn't here but we can discuss that too. Thoughts? the nrext page of my filter is going back and forth with people on why I believe ShiaPi over Clarity. Once again, pay attention - there is NO mention of VE here. In fact I end up arguing with VE too. If these 2 are my scum buddies why am I not pushing VE here and arguing over which of my 2 scum buddies should die, and push the vigilante and drop our KP by 2 that night. My entire analysis combines looking at the thread from multiple angles and I still acnknowledge at the end ShiaPi can be Scum. It isn't till later I start saying he is temp green. And thats exactly what it is: temporary until more information becoems available, like today. There is nothing here that supports your idea of me being Scum. | ||
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On April 30 2013 06:48 GiygaS wrote: Clarity got brought up by Vivax (sure of this one), I think Shiao was sort of everyone having similar suspicions at around the same time. I don't think there was one singular person that sort of spearheaded Shiao, but Clarity originated from Vivax for sure. vivax mentioned him. Sharran brought up a different case on clarity altogether. I showed up and pushed clarity based on sharrant. later I made the analysis also using Vivax's call out against him. That was the VE+clarity+Shiao trinity we got down to. | ||
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On April 30 2013 06:55 Palmar wrote: This is a great game. I'm just going to do nothing and let the hilariousness happen. I really have a bad case of the cba this game. action packed for sure. | ||
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On April 30 2013 06:45 VisceraEyes wrote: I think I'ma check Ace tonight instead. What do you think guys? you could, but why would you run away from checking Palmar? | ||
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On April 30 2013 07:01 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not running away from anything - but given everything, I think we should just lynch Palmar to check him. He doesn't even fucking care. Palmar cares. just in a different way. | ||
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he only cares about himself. | ||
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On April 30 2013 08:12 VisceraEyes wrote: Because I've got to say - I find this extremely odd. Especially considering Cheese's check turned out to be the opposite of what he claims...it just feels like he's buying it way too easily if he really had an issue with our checks to begin with. Im asking you all to investigate each other tonight to prove yourselves. I haven't taken anything any of you have said at face value. | ||
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On April 30 2013 08:22 VisceraEyes wrote: How does that prove anything to anyone with result-altering roles possible? scum lost a framer and detectives can't be millers. If all of you are telling the truth the results will match your previous checks. Nothing can alter any of you short of a Scum JOAT. and there are 3 of you - they cant stop everyone if you're all legit. | ||
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On April 30 2013 08:24 VisceraEyes wrote: What HE claimed. He claimed he had a red check on Syl and Syl flipped green...unless I'm missing something? It did - so how am I "buying this too easily"? I would've just asked you to investigate whoever if I did. | ||
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On April 30 2013 08:26 VisceraEyes wrote: So again I ask: what will us checking each other do exactly? The Scum team MIGHT have another framer but even if they did, the framer can't stop 2 people from checking. If all 3 of you are legit Cops it will be proven tonight. | ||
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On April 30 2013 08:29 VisceraEyes wrote: And if even one of us is NOT legit, then they could feasilby completely fuck up your plan Ace. no, they can't lol. this is so simple but sure - explain to me how they can. I'll even allow you the low possibility of them having two framers. Go for it. | ||
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but here: Let's suppose, as you posit, that one of the checks is fake. For the sake of argument, let's assume it's Cheese. What happens when scum frame Palmar? If Palmar is Scum and framed you should get same back if you're legit PC. Cheese would have to also fake his result and have you show up as Scum. If he is Town he shows up as Scum and looks different on your check. Cheese would still get the same result showing you as Scum. Only way cheese doesn't is if he wants to claim you are scum, getting innocent and you rally are. But we would never know who got framed. And being that a framer already died why would we assume there is a second scum framer that would also target Palmar and NOT one of you? | ||
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On April 30 2013 08:37 Palmar wrote: didnt the framer flip? yes, but VE is asking what happens if there is a second one that can mess up checks tonight. | ||
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Remember - this is with a framer. they are screwed either way. | ||
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On April 30 2013 10:08 VisceraEyes wrote: You aren't even arguing about it, you haven't even TRIED to comment on the posts I made above. You asked me to do it and I did. I already said I heavily doubt there is a framer. I outlined they'd need to hit the right player already. I dont see how you post address this. | ||
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On April 30 2013 10:15 VisceraEyes wrote: How did you "outline they'd need to hit the right player"? I know you heavily doubt there's a framer, but I'm saying that's irrelevant to the situation at hand - the fact is that they MIGHT have another framer, so your plan is fucking STUPID because ONE framer fucks with the WHOLE THING. They could target EITHER myself OR Palmar with it. There's NO WAY they would target CC with it because Palmar's sanity is in question, but that doesn't matter because if they hit me OR Palmar with it then YOUR PLAN IS TOTALLY STUPID. Explain how and why I'm wrong Ace. Shiao has not flipped. If CC is indeed telling the truth they would def target him also because BC, Palmar's check hasn't flipped also. If CC is indeed telling the truth, we know he's insane. But we dont know if YOU are also telling the truth. So they could target you. Whatever result you get no longer matters - you'd have to confirm Palmar as "Same". Palmar's check on CC, who is telling the truth tells us more about his sanity and confirms CC is innocent. Framing you does nothing here unless you and Palmar are both lying - which would fuck you both over if BC flips. Framer does nothing here. | ||
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What do you think targeting CC accomplishes for the mafia with Palmar's sanity in question? It does the same thing targeting you does - it screws up 1 guy's check. But TWO of you, one of which we know has to insane DT if legit, has to get a "Scum" result on you. We know what he has to be if telling the truth, that is the entire key to this. | ||
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...in what way does that confirm anything about anyone?[/QUOTE] Your claim is confirmed depending on what Palmar reports. Remember - he already has a red check on BC. If you are legit, if Palmar lies he will show up as different to YOU because they framed you nullifying anything Palmar says. If his claim holds up and both you and CC hold up we just move on and do it again: we possibly DO have 3 detectives, all with an extra investigation and now are sure of their sanities. If there is a liar it will be revealed by any flips of your investigation (OO), Palmar's (BC), or CC's (shiao). How is this bad? A framer does nothing to stop us from finding out the lie or confirming everyone as legit. They are screwed. | ||
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On April 30 2013 10:32 VisceraEyes wrote: My point is what if we're all telling the truth? You think I'm being unreasonable for considering framer as a possibility. I'm saying you're being unreasonable saying one of us HAS to be lying. If we're all town this is all a huge waste of time that will harm town. That's my point. adressed it just now. If you're ALL town all 3 of you will know what you are and the game is pretty much over with 3 detectives running around when we still have prot roles. I dont see why you're so against this. We are knocking out 2 bids with one stone here. | ||
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On April 30 2013 10:38 VisceraEyes wrote: If they frame me it does nothing to my reports...if they frame me all that does is make me look like scum to CC. Why would them framing me have anything to do with my check on Palmar? If we believe CC and believe you we KNOW what you should show up as (guilty). framing you shows you up as innocent. By virtue Shiao would have to be scum so we'd know you were framed. Only way this doesn't work is if you are also scum - but then we'd have Palmar's check on CC and your check on Palmar. Both of you would have to match checks that would confirm CC and Palmar for the day, their flipped lynches, and your checks next night. No matter which way it goes a Scum framer's impact is negligent. They are fucked. | ||
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On April 30 2013 10:50 VisceraEyes wrote: So are you talking about lynching Shiao tomorrow regardless of our checks Ace? Because if you are, that's a piece I was missing - if you're willing to lynch into the DTs based on the claimed reports however, a framer's impact is NOT negligible at all. yes definitely. The only way I would lynch into detectives is if there is a clear inconsistency that doesn't add up with no explanation. But Shiao is lynch target #1 tomorrow. If we have questions about the DTs but it is still possible they are town, they just go another night checking whoever they want. Except this time all of you will check anyone - the framer would have to get lucky again and just delay the inevitable. | ||
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On April 30 2013 10:52 ObviousOne wrote: Syl framed means I am mafia or miller. Or VE just checked out two vanilla townies because who the fuck frames an AFK player? Or are you saying you framed Syl? What are you saying, buddy? a bunch of nothing. Framing Syl means 3 people targeted him Night 2. and the framer thought he would be DT checked even tho he flipped town. | ||
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On April 30 2013 10:55 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay, that makes sense. Because like, it's possible that Shiao was framed on N1, or that Syl was framed N2 when I checked him or whatever the fuck...but you're right they can't frame us all if we're all telling the truth the rest of the game. I get it. I GET IT! ^^ Now we just have to hope none of us dies :/ I dont think Syl was framed N2 but yes even so they are screwed if all 3 of you are legit. Scum also doesnt know how many protective roles we have since 0 have flipped so we're good on that front also. | ||
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Palmar reveals his check first. VE and Mr.CC don't post till your check is revealed. Palmar picks the next person to reveal. then the last guy goes. If there is more than 1 liar around we'll see whats up. | ||
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he can pick whoever he wants to reveal next, if him + another of you are lying it will help a little | ||
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Mr.CC was telling the truth and thus was insane DT ->>>Shiao. We'll be missing the info on VE but right now we'll wait for Palmar and VT's info. Palmar you reveal first. | ||
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Focused on the Shiao lynch knowing I'd be gone for a long time. I've got no reason to hide being roleblocked. When I was here for the last day post I immediately claimed. | ||
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On May 01 2013 06:45 TheRavensName wrote: By focused yo mean you posted like two sentences? How hard would it have been to slip it in at the end like "Oh hey I was roleblocked. K thanks gys I'm out." It isn't - I just literally forgot to post it. I'm pretty sure it was a town JK roleblocking me - why would I hide that when they could easily call me out on it? | ||
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On May 01 2013 06:58 VisceraEyes wrote: Frankly I'm more interested in who you think is scum. people have been trying to lynch me since my name appeared on the player list - I find "how long can Ace dodge the lynch noose" a just as fun game | ||
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Night 2 could be the remaining 1 Scum Kp and Vigi/3rd Partyu hit. Night 3 only 1 guy died and its not impossible for a remaining 3rd party to hit Mr.CC along with Scum. That being Palmar since instead of checking Mr.CC he chose a different player altogether. Combined with VE being roleblocked this is possible. | ||
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On May 01 2013 07:14 yamato77 wrote: What if both Ace and VE are mafia? ![[image loading]](http://narwhaler.com/original/tk/q/i-dont-know-therefore-aliens-ancient-aliens-tkQ6NM.jpg) | ||
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On May 01 2013 09:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote: A mafia player could attempt to do this, however a post like this is also something I would expect out of a town player as well. Is it the best contribution? No, and do I agree with it? No. However I would say this is actually a "trying" post. BC stop it. You know beyond a shadow of a doubt that was one of the dumbest posts in this thread. Come on rofl. | ||
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Real effort there. | ||
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"yes, Ace brought up 3 suspects, 2 of which did flip Scum. But seriously, he tried to bring me up too! wait what? he ignored me and lynched clarity? well fuck that's his scumbuddy! he called shiaopi town, and the guy flipped red! LEADING LYNCHES OF SCUM MAKES YOU SCUM TOO! I DONT CARE IF THERE WERE 20 PEOPLE ALIVE AND A BUS MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE! SCREW LOGIC! | ||
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On May 01 2013 10:13 yamato77 wrote: No, it's not. The amount of confirmation bias displayed by the three of you regarding me is completely absurd. None of you can read me for shit. Good job. maybe following up on your promises would be a good start. | ||
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On May 01 2013 10:19 yamato77 wrote: You can't even read, because I posted cases on VE and BC DAY FUCKING ONE. those were not cases stop your nonsense lol. it was just straight up bias tunneling. | ||
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On May 01 2013 10:30 yamato77 wrote: Yes, please keep antagonizing me. Get your head out of your ass. ![[image loading]](http://mountainsangha.org/wp-content/uploads/gm-anger.jpg) | ||
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Quit if you feel that way and dont really care. No one is stopping you. | ||
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But I'm the delusional one and bad player. | ||
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On May 01 2013 11:27 WaveofShadow wrote: And this is dumb, because Ace is always right. ![[image loading]](http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/bowdown.gif) | ||
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On May 01 2013 15:55 ObviousOne wrote: You could say that based on that, him living another day seems pretty  Hopeless I award you THREE OO-points and may God have mercy on his soul. On May 01 2013 16:03 GiygaS wrote: Wait, I got it! You could say that that joke was the ObviousOne | ||
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On May 02 2013 06:32 WaveofShadow wrote: Good reasoning. I'm pretty sure Palmar isn't on the block for today unless you can come up with something that puts him above everyone else we've been talking about. At least lazy as fuck paranoid cop fits with how he's been playing all game, as unhelpful as it is. You on the other hand are completely different from how you've been playing just a few days ago. Were you roleblocked? Or did you conveniently forget to mention it again? I've got a job but my activity hasn't died. I've been around. And yes OF COURSE I was roleblocked. Palmar gets lynched because his claim was shoddy to begin with. "I'm lazy" isn't a valid defense lol. He wanted to lynch BC and didn't even take into account he could be paranoid. Get rid of him. | ||
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On May 02 2013 06:43 Palmar wrote: Still want to lynch BC. I checked him cause I thought he was scum. what are your thoughts on global warming? | ||
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hopless or Palmar | ||
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On May 02 2013 21:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Subject name: Bloodyc0bbler Nickname: The Cobbler Profile: Mafia Future: Lynched by the mob of justice. This annoys the cobbler, which can be seen in his first post in the game. A post which announces the tunnel he will put himself in for the rest of the game. BC instantly calls Yamato likely scum and calls OO scum for suggesting that claiming miller is acceptable. So far, we've had only one person that claimed self-aware miller and I'm pretty sure he's town. It seems likely that BC wanted millers to stay hidden to give scum a chance for a mislynch in case they get checked. Town players that claim miller are excellent since it reduces from the pool of players that give detectives false information, and if scum has no intention of claiming miller, they certainly don't want town players to do so. It's also an easy way to look like you're contributing. The full exchange between OO and BC can be found in OO's case so I won't reiterate that. BC, the player who had a strong scumread on Yamato never bothers to truly push him. Instead, he blabbers on about millers as if it'll get him anywhere. It won't, and he knows it won't, but he'd rather keep talking about that than actually having to push his scumread. Why doesn't he do so? It's fairly obvious. Once Yamato flips green, all eyes would be turned to him and his filter wouldn't survive the scrutiny. So he pushes Yamato weakly. Never asks people what they thought of him, just answering questions when people decide to look into the case. And the case is pretty damn awful. Read this case, and read it thoroughly. It is full of shit. Yamato has created 3 cases at this point and pushed for them stronger than BC has on anyone. Consolidating on town is a shit argument because it's an instant majority game with no deadline so how the FUCK does that make anyone scum? It doesn't, it's just bullshit padding. Then there's a whole bunch of loaded questions he asks and answers himself with no content whatsoever. To top it all off, he adds a second scumspect that he never mentioned before in the same post and finishes the same post off with a defense of himself. he never wanted this case to be looked at. He never wanted yamato lynched. Would this be the case a cobbler makes to get someone lynched? Is this the fear of any scumteam that causes him to get shot N1 every time? No. It's awful, and he needs to die for it. These are the first posts he made instantly after he posted his case. + Show Spoiler + On April 26 2013 05:35 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Why does town have to have a Jailer? Scum having two "rbers" isn't uncommon nor is town not having medics. Setup speculation serves no real basis on how to analyze if someone is town/scum. On April 26 2013 05:36 BloodyC0bbler wrote: EBWOP Actually given that town could have jailkeepers or medics. not having jailkeepers makes sense given that town has no real need of rbers, On April 26 2013 05:45 BloodyC0bbler wrote: As would I. I am merely pointing it out based on the comment made about "why would town jail bc" I would want to lynch Palmar for same reasons people would say "lynch bc for" What people don't realize Is i took a firm stance day 1 on a lynch and Palmar nor Ace did. They sheeped. On April 26 2013 05:55 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Interesting point VE. I actually agree with it as well No mention of Yamato or Mr. CC, he just instantly jumps back to town sentiment. He doesn't give a shit about actually getting Yamato lynched, he'd be fine with a Palmar lynch, or whoever town wants to lynch, as long as it isn't him. This is the last time he mentions Yamato for a long time other than in passing, the player he has a 100% scumread on. WHY DOES HE NOT CARE ABOUT GETTING HIS 100% SCUMREAD LYNCHED?!??! Anyway, the thread goes on with suspicion being cast upon Clarity and Shiao, two people we later found out were scum. BC's initial response: A null read and they should be dealt with with a vigi. No one really cared about getting either lynched. Following thread sentiment, seems legit. Then, he sees one of his buddies make a bad post. He knows people are suspecting Shiao already. Since he's inactive, he mind as well go for it and collect some towncred. Buut Shiao answers decently and BC notices that town doesn't want to lynch Shiao, so he lets it go. Backing off weakly on his scumbuddy because it wasn't necessary to sacrifice him here just yet. It's interesting to note how he jumps on Shiao so strongly, yet hasn't commented on Yamato's posts at all in quite some time. His #1 scumread is forgotten. He hasn't even responded to any posts Mr. CC made either, which is another one of his suspects. Hold on hold on hold on VE I don't actually want Yamato lynched I just want to pressure him! So eventually, Yamato responds to the case. BC's response: Does this look like someone who was 100% convinced Yamato was scum? No. He never actually gets back to it either. There's one point in his favour and that's that he calls both Clarity and Shiao likely mafia, but he knew they were likely to die. He didn't have enough towncred to prevent it, and he wouldn't be able to save them anyway so he just went with the flow, as BC has been doing the entire game. Following thread sentiment. So the cobbler has been pretty inactive for a while from here, only making a few posts here and there that essentially say nothing. Thus, VE calls him out. And pronto, BC shits out a few reads on lurkers that would surprise absolutely no one. Look at this part on Yamato. It's not telling people why they should lynch Yamato, it's telling people "I'm not scum because I have reasons for my suspicion on him!" In no way does this push Yamato in any way, it's just his justification for finding him scummy. So it turns out BC didn't find Yamato's response satisfactory, yet he never bothered to respond to it. Why not? Because he didn't want it in the limelight. So now BC's main suspects are Yamato and Stutters. What did BC say about Stutters again? He already said that he didn't know where Stutters stood until Shiao flipped. Earlier in the game, he indicated that he suspected both Shiao and Clarity, yet surprisingly Shiao disappeared from his to be shot list. BC has not forgotten about him clearly since he mentions that Shiao is still alive, yet he wants to kill Stutters for derailing a lynch from a person he thought was scum to a person he knows is scum. Other than that, the only reason he pushes Stutters is inactivity. Yet it's his second strongest suspect? Why? And where did Mr. CC go in all of this? Nowhere does BC explain that read evolving. Where did Yamato go? Why are Hopeless and me suddenly on the list? It looks like he has 6 players on a list and just randomly RNGs which one he mentions next. No justification, no reason why Yamato is missing and why myself or hopeless is suddenly on the list. What's also interesting is his soft pushing of Palmar. He mentions Palmar a lot in his filter and argues with him a bit, but he never actually pushes for his lynch. It's the same in this post. "Until Palmar does more than be a massive troll, hes on there as well." This is not a push by any means, it just provides an easy scapegoat later. "Look, I did accuse him!" "Please don't kill my scumbuddy jailer yet, I'd like to roleblock another detective and lynch one before we do that." So just a while back Palmar was scum until he stopped trolling, and now he's scum or 3p for sure. BC knew Palmar wasn't going to change, he just wanted some time before he actually called him scum. Not that he actually pushes for anyone, mind you. He just continues to spend his time defending himself and talking setup/mechanics rather than actually pushing anyone. A trend he has had the entire game. BC then goes into inactivity and just posts a bunch of oneliner replies to questions without any real content or purpose. There's no force behind anything. He's playing meek. Oh yeah, remember about Yamato being 100% scum? So he's only 80% sure of Yamato being scum now. Given that he named 4 names earlier and Yamato wasn't one of them anymore (me, Hopeless, Stutters and Palmar), that must mean he was more than 80% sure on the four of us. Strange given there are only 2 scum players left. HE'S SO CERTAIN YET HE'S NOT PUSHING ANYONE STRONGLY, HE'S JUST ANSWERING RANDOM QUESTIONS ABOUT PLAYERS Then there's this. OO already mentioned why this was noteworthy, but I'll post it again. Yamato and Palmar probably made the worst posts in the game according to BC, yet he just said the people who make the dumbest posts are town. That's pretty... interesting. This game, Palmar is pretty much playing lynchbait for the heck of it, and it's plain as day to see. However, he has a reputation as a vet. The two combined makes it easy for people to push him. Given most of the vets are still alive, it's easy for BC to push into him. A logical choice that, once again, follows town sentiment. Tl;dr 1. BC has tunneled Yamato from his first post, yet never pushed him strongly. 2. BC's reads barely evolve and when they do, they're never/poorly explained. 3. BC treated the people that flipped scum very differently from the people that haven't, being far more willing to push them when town sentiment shifts. 4. BC's case on Yamato was godawful and looked more like trying to contribute than anything else. No conviction. 5. BC has followed town sentiment to the T. 6. BC spends more time answering random questions than actually pushing his candidates. 7. BC doesn't give a shit about who actually gets lynched, as long as he doesn't look suspicious. The cobbler is scum. It is time for the cobbler to get cobbled to death. ##Unvote ##Vote Bloodyc0bbler ![[image loading]](http://www.funnydictionary.com/img/entry_images/188/i87YRVpBkA8.jpg) | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 03 2013 04:35 Hopeless1der wrote: Yes considering Ace's KP is controlled atm dont even try to reason with him. He has a fetish for trying to lynch me. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Jesus., I wish we had a deadline because it takes 72 hours to do something that should take no more than 10. Whether Palmar, BC, or Hopeless dies first it does not matter. We have a massive numbers advantage and unless you're extremely dumb 4 "almost surefire Town" players. Which is more than the number of targets on the block. The game is essentially solved, the people slowing it up are most likely the last remaining Scum. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
good job to geript though. Played everyone for fools with it and just sat back letting you guys argue. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
I wanted to set the cops up to get night killed and they wanted me to kill Town (and avoid scum lynches). Pro thinking. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 18 2013 08:28 Palmar wrote: Didn't I try to get him lynched two days in a row now? not with that reasoning. If you would have brought that up Town would have no choice but to lynch him. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Also Palmar when you keep telling people you are lazy and can't be bothered why would they believe what you have to say a the game goes on? It worked early game but you know TL players are fickle and DO NOT READ. When you try to be serious they will say w/e and keep going with their biases. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
no Palmar cuz you couldn't be bothered. Unless you feel geript was the only guy you were sure of being Scum the entire game since you pretty much cruised for 2+ weeks. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 18 2013 09:18 VisceraEyes wrote: Mine was fine Ace. Say it. e: SAY IT! ![[image loading]](http://bhseos.com/images/smilies/rage_faces/fuck-that-bitch-yao-ming.png) | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 21 2013 06:33 geript wrote: It's very hard to have a voice to actually push bad lynches without having a vet or two. Had palmar played this game on a smurf account and not ever been revealed, he would've easily been lynched at any number of points for his ridiculous play. Reputation had far more effect on this game than anything else. 1.) To the bolded - and it shouldn't. I commented on this too but reputation gets people much further than it should. Town should lynch people for bad play and stop worrying about what some guy promises in the future because he's caught scum before. Just bad logic in many ways. I said it numerous times in game about yamato: assuming that me/BC/Palmar/VE must be scum because of "vet" status shows that he isn't reading the game and merely lost and grasping at straws. I've always had a problem with the vet label though as with many things in this forum it is constantly misused. 2.) I don't fully agree that you need a vet voice to push bad lynches. There are many dimensions to this answer, and I know where you are coming from: Collectively the Town is dumb, and will appeal to perceived authority over someone making solid posts. There are ways to spot a bad lynch but for the sake of argument I'm going to assume you mean Scum driven lynches on Town. Thing is townies fuck up all the time and make anti-town decisions and posts. It's your job to get them strung up on it while making a case that includes scum motivation. As difficult as it may be keep doing it as it will make you a better all around player in the future. There is something I should get around to posting, some backroom conversations with many players, that kind of goes into this. Bottom line is keep doing the actions that have higher value and you'll eventually succeed. Bad players stay bad because they don't think and unfortunately you only have limited control in helping them improve. | ||
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