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My townread on Sharrant has weakened very much at this point. When i look at his posts i see several things where i can't understand how his thinking process works. I will point them out later on today, too tired atm. There are also a couple of things i totally do not understand, like why does he take TRN's comment about me (the lynchbait comment) at face value, when at that time TRN is his scumread. No questioning about it.. nothing. And how did it end up, i had never said so in the first plce, yet it's a reason to strengthen his scumread on me..
Another thing i find odd:
On April 24 2013 06:27 WaveofShadow wrote:
Hey Sharrant, where you at bro?
Any thoughts on yamato/Oats since you seem to have conveniently missed it entirely?
Updated thoughts on Rayn/Shiao?
How the hell WoS can ask Sharrant's updated read on ShiaoPi? From what i can tell Sharrant has never said what he thinks about ShiaoPi, only scumreads he has given out are me/Hopeless. Wtf is this shit?
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That is a very good answer that explains a lot of things.
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About Sharrant:
First he makes a case on TRN. The case in itself is not bad if you have never seen how TRN plays. But there is this question:
Could you please link me to any games you have played on TL or elsewhere?
I call him out for this question which i find to be scummy. Sharrant's answer is:
The last part of your case is even weaker, I don't think it even needs to be touched upon.
Sharrant later on calls me out for saying; "So you say TRN is actually not attempting to discern who in the thread are the mafia, but you still have a town read on him. Townies should scum hunt, yes?". This is correct, mainly because Sharrant and Vivax both attacked TRN early on in the game, after that TRN went defensive and answered their questions. Sharrant is even adding more fuel into the fire by asking TRN to point him to his games on TL.
Why do you think it is TRN's (or anyone other than yours) job to guide you into his past games? And why do you call me out for poining out the fact (as i have witnessed it myself) that TRN is easy to sidetrack from what he is supposed to do -> find mafia?
Next thing. Sharrant's case on me. His points against me are; BM-policy lynch discussion (understandable as i failed to explain myself clearly enough) and that i called him scummy for asking TRN to point him to his last games. Which i still think is scummy.
Next i explain him my BM vote, he is pleased with my answer, at least that reads so to me.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 22 2013 08:40 Sharrant wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 08:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:Sharrant:What is your exact reasoning for voting for BM. Give me one paragraph, with your thought process. If it's policy, tell me it's policy and the exact policy. If you have other reasoning for it, please detail that reasoning to the best of your ability. I think there is no reason for a townie to claim miller for the reasons i explained before. If BM was not in fact claiming miller, he should have a damn good reason why he decided to post what he did, because posting (joking?) that as town does not make any sense. I see. I'll wait until Bill Murray is back in the thread before I say anything more about this then, if I feel the need to say anything more.Let's give ourselves another topic then. Pick a player who you would like to discuss with me, and I will read their filter while I cook and eat. I would suggest Mr. Cheesecake, but I would prefer it if you picked the candidate for discussion.
In the same quote he asks me to pick a player to discuss. Why do you want me, your scumread to pick a player to discuss? If i thought you were scum i would be damn sure i wanted to pick the people we discuss (other scummy people).
After that we discuss WoS and GiygaS. I also ask him about geript. I am the one asking all the questions. Note that Sharrant would have liked to discuss Mr.Cheesecake. If i am your scumread, why do you allow me to drive the discussion between us? Why do you not want to find out my scumbuddies when talking with me?
Then Sharrant suddenly changes his scumread on TRN into null/leaning town. The reason is TRN saying i have told him i would use weak townies as town-credit-collectors by defending them. Sharrant takes this at face value. TRN was your scumread at that time, why didn't you take any action to figure out if he was telling the truth or not, as he wasn't?
Then comes in his theory (based on what TRN said) about me trying to gain town-credit for TRN's lynch. The theory is ridiculous in the first place, if people can't see why idk what to say. He also makes a big post about it:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 22 2013 13:26 Sharrant wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 12:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Wait what Sharrant.. Are you seriously saying that i'm trying to gain credit from town!TRN lynch on D1 as mafia? That's your conclusion? It was part of the thought process that got me to look at you in the first place. Obviously TRN is not getting lynched so there is no credit for you to gain from it anymore. It is even, apparently, something you told TRN that you would do as mafia (though you did not state you would do it specifically to him). Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 12:32 ShiaoPi wrote:On April 22 2013 12:24 Sharrant wrote:On April 22 2013 12:07 ShiaoPi wrote:On April 22 2013 12:05 Sharrant wrote:On April 22 2013 11:59 ShiaoPi wrote:
Oh if you have paid close attention to TRN then what is your stance on him now?
I am calling you scummy That he's fairly unimportant in the grand scheme of things, and most likely town. What made you change your mind? This response is terribly lacking.... He realized that Rayn could be setting him up to give him town cred when he flipped. When Rayn stepped in to defend him I was sure TRN was either lynchbait, or one of Rayn's teammates. It seems more likely at this point he is lynchbait. TRN only had a small chance of actually being mafia, but a very good chance of attracting mafia attention either by virtue of A) being a weak player which they can use as town credit or to manipulate or B) was a weak mafia player who they could protect while looking like they're just trying to help out the new player. Rayn came in with a town read on him whose strength did not match what I had read in TRN's filter, so he was the person I was looking for. I find it interesting you see nothing at all to discuss between Rayn and Hopeless. At least more content than your last answer. If TRN only had a small chance of actually being mafia, why did you vote him? Isn't that fulfilling your own conclusion that you are mafia, by virtue of going after the lynchbait? What the fuck dude? Now what do you make of all the others who also defended TRN? All team mafia?? What do you say about Ace and others who also had a townread (or at least null) on TRN? You seem to be misinterpreting my definition of small chance. Small chance of being mafia still meant a greater chance than anyone elses actions in the thread. At that point I figured he probably had about a 40 percent chance of being mafia, if I were to assign a value to it. A small chance, but still greater than I felt anyone else had. So I went after him because he was the strongest scum read I had. When Rayn made these two posts: Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 06:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 22 2013 05:48 ObviousOne wrote:
One more filter then I'm going to go level my Priest some more.
Oh. My. God. Tube is in this game. LOL. HI TUBE! (we played in a newbie together, my first game! He hasn't posted anything so skipping for now.)
Raynpelikoneet, sorry to pick on you again for like the third straight game in a row together. You want to lynch the "claimed miller" Bill Murray, you have made your stance on lynching millers abundantly clear, but I don't see anything that looks like it's developing into an actual scum read. Why are you leaning so heavily on your policy lynch when there are mafia to be lynched? Also, assume BM isn't here for a moment, who do you lynch? I read BM's post as a miller claim. If it wasn't, he needs to explain this: - What was the purpose of making that post? There is no reason for a townie to say anything that does not lead into finding scum or proving their towniness. I don't see that post achieving either of those things. If the claim was actually real, i want BM to explain why he thought it was a good idea to claim miller D1. Millers should not claim. All it does is that it tells the thread that they will give out a red result if checked by a cop. Why would you be a good cop check in the first place if you are town? You should prove you are town by your actions so that there is no reason for anyone to assume you are mafia, and the cops should check suspicious people instead. Claiming miller on D1 is extremely suspicious because it already shows you are afraid of being checked by a cop. If you are a miller, and are checked, so what? Tough luck, then you claim and town will believe you or not. But the place to claim is not the start of D1. This is not a policy lynch, BM's miller claim post is scummy.
About Sharrant. Sharrant accuses TRN of things. The case in itself is not scummy and i could see someone seeing TRN's posts in that light, i just don't get the same feeling from TRN's posts. Having played with him on NMXXXIX, i can tell that he has no idea how to act in the start of the game. Here he seems to be trying to figure out things and share his thoughts about stuff he is asked about. Fine, why is Sharrant scummy? - He's discussing the "policy lynch BM" matter but does not reach any kind of a conclusion that points towards this particular situation. - Asks TRN about his last games. It's not TRN's job to find those games to him. It's Sharrant's job to find out TRN's affiliation and TRN wasting time on telling him about his last games is a waste of time that does not help TRN find mafia. Seems like Sharrant is lazy and does not want to find out things on his own. Townies should not do that. Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 06:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 22 2013 06:43 Vivax wrote:On April 22 2013 06:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 22 2013 05:48 ObviousOne wrote:
One more filter then I'm going to go level my Priest some more.
Oh. My. God. Tube is in this game. LOL. HI TUBE! (we played in a newbie together, my first game! He hasn't posted anything so skipping for now.)
Raynpelikoneet, sorry to pick on you again for like the third straight game in a row together. You want to lynch the "claimed miller" Bill Murray, you have made your stance on lynching millers abundantly clear, but I don't see anything that looks like it's developing into an actual scum read. Why are you leaning so heavily on your policy lynch when there are mafia to be lynched? Also, assume BM isn't here for a moment, who do you lynch? I read BM's post as a miller claim. If it wasn't, he needs to explain this: - What was the purpose of making that post? There is no reason for a townie to say anything that does not lead into finding scum or proving their towniness. I don't see that post achieving either of those things. If the claim was actually real, i want BM to explain why he thought it was a good idea to claim miller D1. Millers should not claim. All it does is that it tells the thread that they will give out a red result if checked by a cop. Why would you be a good cop check in the first place if you are town? You should prove you are town by your actions so that there is no reason for anyone to assume you are mafia, and the cops should check suspicious people instead. Claiming miller on D1 is extremely suspicious because it already shows you are afraid of being checked by a cop. If you are a miller, and are checked, so what? Tough luck, then you claim and town will believe you or not. But the place to claim is not the start of D1. This is not a policy lynch, BM's miller claim post is scummy.
About Sharrant. Sharrant accuses TRN of things. The case in itself is not scummy and i could see someone seeing TRN's posts in that light, i just don't get the same feeling from TRN's posts. Having played with him on NMXXXIX, i can tell that he has no idea how to act in the start of the game. Here he seems to be trying to figure out things and share his thoughts about stuff he is asked about. Fine, why is Sharrant scummy? - He's discussing the "policy lynch BM" matter but does not reach any kind of a conclusion that points towards this particular situation. - Asks TRN about his last games. It's not TRN's job to find those games to him. It's Sharrant's job to find out TRN's affiliation and TRN wasting time on telling him about his last games is a waste of time that does not help TRN find mafia. Seems like Sharrant is lazy and does not want to find out things on his own. Townies should not do that. Where does TRN try to figure out things? Tbh I kinda have you both as scummy along a few others, so your defense of TRN strikes me especially. I don't really see anything that could give me a reason to think he's town, but if you're so kind, could you point it out? Particularly this post of his: + Show Spoiler +On April 21 2013 23:19 TheRavensName wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2013 23:09 Vivax wrote:On April 21 2013 23:01 TheRavensName wrote:On April 21 2013 22:52 Vivax wrote:On April 21 2013 22:48 TheRavensName wrote:On April 21 2013 22:42 Vivax wrote:On April 21 2013 22:38 TheRavensName wrote:
Huh... I was curious to see how big boys start playing the game... and less then a page's worth of posting totals I see an OMGuS. I feel somewhat surprised; apparently the way newbies open mafia games is the right way?
PS: Bill Murray yelling indoors is really mean. Oooo, an omgus, interesting. Are you okay with the way Oats is playing the game? I'm not a 100% sure what hes doing, but if you want to call it playing then... maybe? Truth be told the fact that palmer just randomly takes offense to a baseless acucsation in a game that just started doesn't make a lot of since to me. He's asking for a base to the accusation, precisely. Do you have any ideas to get some discussion started? Your entrance kinda looked like you tried to downplay what's going on in the thread, which in turn makes me think you're trying to communicate reasons for not doing anything. Do you think this description fits your play or did your posts have other purposes? I thought it just genuinely showed disapointment. I've always had difficulty understand what to do at the start of day 1, and I see that there really is no good way to start day 1 in a purely productive way. So I suppose your right, I'm trying to downplay what happens because it doesn't seem productive, unless of course we need to know why Yamato has many weapons that arn' t guns..... And I think its more suspicious to ask in that way rather than, just ask.... seeing as how he didn't even vote baselessly or hasn't made an ssue out of it yet. If we went after everyone who accused someone day 1 just kinda in passing, we'd never get anything resembling a case or something. I don't think Oats would answer even if Palmar just asked, cause Oats rather seems to be trolling and careless about getting something productive out of this day. P said he would vote for him until he heard a proper motivation from Oats to call him scum, nothing followed, so Oats seems to oppose discussion and doesn't want to show his townieness through cooperation. The question is: How do we handle people who don't want to cooperate? Do we threaten Oats with a lynch? Do we ask him nicely to play like someone that puts thought into his posts? /shrug And what will we get out of threatening him at all? What does either lynching him for not liking a posted policy(? (Thats what that was right?)) or becase he just decided to troll actually accomplish (I think this one is more likely)? These are literaly the only responses he could make (That make any logical since and any others should count as trolling really) and I just don't see how either could prove guilt or innocense. But if you feel so strong on making him talk, why arn't you voting for him since apparently one vote isn't going to cut it? I didn't mean he is trying to find mafia. I meant he is trying to find out how to play @ the game start, what to look for and what to call people out for. If you read his exchange with yourself, you should easily figure out he has no clue how to act in the beginning of the game. This does not make him 100% town but i doubt he would be openly expressing his thought about that matter if he was mafia, i think he would be far more cautious about what he says. What makes me scummy in your eyes? That was a lot more effort than anyone took to explain TRN. Everyone that commented on him, or I asked to comment on him, just stated they thought he was a noob town, but generally people had to be prodded into action. Rayn came in attacking me with a very weak case because of my case on TRN. At this point, I am very happy because I am sure I have at least one mafia in these 2 players. I am sure after that attack and defense that Rayn is mafia either defending a mafia to deflect a bandwagon before it can start, or defending someone he sees will be lynched later and thus he would be able to go "Hey look, I knew he was town allt he way back then and I defended him!" regardless of whether he was lynched today, or tomorrow, or a week from now. At this point I am 100% sure of Rayn, and 50/50 on TRN. When TRN came in and said that he had a town read on Rayn despite the inconsistincies myself and others had pointed out, I had TRN down as very likely to be scum. But when he later mentioned how Rayn had told him that he planned to do this exact same thing as scum before, and subsequently moved him to a null read, that was when I was pretty sure that TRN was town. At this point I am less sure about Rayn being scum than I was then, because his conversations with other players has generally been good since that time, but he's still in my top 3 to lynch. I just haven't decided if there's someone I'd rather lynch more, like say Hopeless. Any more questions?
At the end of that post he also says his scumread on me has weakened. After that i vote for Sharrant. This is his answer to the case:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2013 00:02 Sharrant wrote:
It's a good try, Rayne, but no.
Let's get this out of the way quickly because I have to leave, and there's more important things to do when I'm back.
The reason I looked into you is because of your chainsaw defense of TRN. That fit exactly what I was looking for, so I went through your filter.
I am not trying to lynch you on the merit of you defending TRN, get that through your head. I am going to get you lynched because you are scum. You claim that after posting several times about how miller claims should be a policy lynch, you say that it's not a policy lynch you're pushing on BM. The closest you come to make to a case is "This isn't a miller lynch policy, I'm lynching him because he claimed miller which is scummy" which is exactly the same as saying "No, this isn't a lurker lynch, I'm just lynching because his low activity is scummy". It's just attempting to disguise that you were trying to policy lynch him.
The post I voted for you details exactly why I have you as a scum read. The possibility that you were a townie who made some crazy defense on TRN went out the window when I read through your filter.
If you can't understand that, I can't help you.
Now, suddenly i am 100% scum again. But no more is my town-credit-gaining a reason why i am scum. It's all back to the point that i "disguised my policy lynch vote on BM into something else". But he was already okay with my answer. Hell, he does not even answer anything to my case. Why did you make a big post about the theory of me trying to gain credit from defending town!TRN, if it isn't even part of the case against me, what's the point?
TLDR;
1) Why did you not answer me clearly when i asked you why should TRN point you to his past games? And he never did, why didn't you follow it up in any way, if you think that was scummy from him?
2) Why did you say you were pleased with my answer on the BM matter and later on said your whole case against me is based on that?
3) Why did you not want to find out who my "scumbuddies" are when we were discussing people, and why did you let me drive the discussion?
4) Why did you take TRN's words about my "scum strategy" at face value as at that time he was your scumread?
5) Why did you even discuss your theory about me trying to gain credit from TRN when it had apparently nothing to do with your scumread on me and was based on false premises in the first place which you were too lazy to check out and which came from you scumread?
And for the record this is basically everything Sharrant has done this game besides one post where he answers Vivax about Hopeless and couple of posts questioning people with no follow ups at all. I don't see how this is anything near townie behaviour.
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Why is that? And what does being a "lynchbait" have anything to do with his alignment? I'm not saying the guy is 100% scum, i just don't understand why everyone is saying he is town, because i don't see it.
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Could you look at especially the things i TLDR'd in my post, that's what concerns me, as i can't understand why he does those things / how he ends up in conclusions like that?
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Huh. Who has Sharrant been after other than me?
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Also can you tell me what's irrelevant in this:
TLDR;
1) Why did you not answer me clearly when i asked you why should TRN point you to his past games? And he never did, why didn't you follow it up in any way, if you think that was scummy from him?
2) Why did you say you were pleased with my answer on the BM matter and later on said your whole case against me is based on that?
3) Why did you not want to find out who my "scumbuddies" are when we were discussing people, and why did you let me drive the discussion?
4) Why did you take TRN's words about my "scum strategy" at face value as at that time he was your scumread?
5) Why did you even discuss your theory about me trying to gain credit from TRN when it had apparently nothing to do with your scumread on me and was based on false premises in the first place which you were too lazy to check out and which came from you scumread?
And for the record this is basically everything Sharrant has done this game besides one post where he answers Vivax about Hopeless and couple of posts questioning people with no follow ups at all. I don't see how this is anything near townie behaviour.
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So agreeing with your scumread on something they say without checking it out is totally what townies usually do. And letting your scumread drive the discussion when you talk with him about reads on other people is totally what townies do.
I'm kinda puzzled, how do you play this game?
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On April 24 2013 17:37 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 17:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So agreeing with your scumread on something they say without checking it out is totally what townies usually do. And letting your scumread drive the discussion when you talk with him about reads on other people is totally what townies do.
I'm kinda puzzled, how do you play this game? None of that matters at all.
Why exactly? Those are pretty scummy things imo.
On April 24 2013 17:37 Ace wrote:
@rayne: yamato is doing a lot of talking for Sharrant which amazes me, because he somehow knows this guy is def Town and knows his thought process. Until Sharrant shows up you're talking to the wrong guy. He's talking nonsense.
No matter, i want a better read on yamato aswell. If he thinks he can follow Sharrant's train of thought it's fine. I can't.
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If you are answering could you give some clear answers instead of bullshit ones yamato?
Now Sharrant has a scumread on Hopeless (which he has never followed up with anything), and then he has gone after me.
Did you take a look at my filter and what reads i have given? You disagree with my read on Sharrant, that's for sure. What about the other reads? It it really so that i have been after Sharrant the whole game?
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On April 24 2013 17:43 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 17:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 24 2013 17:37 yamato77 wrote:On April 24 2013 17:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So agreeing with your scumread on something they say without checking it out is totally what townies usually do. And letting your scumread drive the discussion when you talk with him about reads on other people is totally what townies do.
I'm kinda puzzled, how do you play this game? None of that matters at all. Why exactly? Those are pretty scummy things imo. IMO, they aren't. They don't matter at all. They're fabrications.
omfg, i don't know if you are incredibly dumb or scum.
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Okay yamato.
- If we discussed reads here, would you be okay with me telling who we discuss and asking all the questions? You would just answer me and ask nothing.
- If i said now that "Ace told me the other game that when he says "nullifying a scum read" he is always scum" would you believe me straight up and go lynch Ace?
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Yes i know. In my post where i question Sharrant i said that was understandable from him. There are other things i'm curious about as i pointed out.
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Just being curious Vivax, do you think this is townie behaviour and do you think think this is what Sharrant did:
3) Why did you not want to find out who my "scumbuddies" are when we were discussing people, and why did you let me drive the discussion?
4) Why did you take TRN's words about my "scum strategy" at face value as at that time he was your scumread?
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yamato. You have done nothing but trolled on D1. When votes started to pile on you you started tunneling the guy who brought up your scumminess, BC. After that you have done nothing but been after one guy.
See what i did there? Sounds familiar?
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Why do both of you and yamato ignore this simple question?
Do you think this is townie behaviour and do you think think this is what Sharrant did: Show nested quote +3) Why did you not want to find out who my "scumbuddies" are when we were discussing people, and why did you let me drive the discussion?
4) Why did you take TRN's words about my "scum strategy" at face value as at that time he was your scumread?
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I give up, you are clearly not reading my posts.
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Vivax:
I asked Clarity about ShiaoPi because he promised to look into those three people. ShiaoPi didn't interest me much at that time. I wanted to see what Clarity came up on those people, cos i think Clarity is scum and if he looked at people i thought he was at least looking into people who he thought were scum when he was reading the thread. Turned out no..
Oh and i agree with the points you brought up against ShiaoPi.
Sharrant:
I understand you much better now. We certainly have quite a different way of approaching the game and now i can see your thought process behind your actions. I disagree with some of them being the "best way" to approach the situation but i understand you. I know i am sometimes bad at explaining stuff but i hope you can also look at what i have said from my PoV and at least try to understand why i am saying stuff i am.
With that being said, here's my full list of reads. I don't care to make big paragraphs about people i find scummy, just a short summary, and i don't care to explain my townreads atm:
Bill Murray
Kushm4sta
TheRavensName
Vivax
Grush57
getmoript
Sharrant
Hopeless1der
Palmar - This is extremely shady. Palmar is either incredibly lazy or scum, but i put him on "likely town" because he seems to share a good portion of my reads.
Null:
Stutters695 - can't say much
Tube - can't say much
Drazak - can't say much
Ace - honestly could be either way. i have a hard time reading him, brings up good points, i'm just not sure if they are against dumb townies or if those people are actually mafia
BloodyCobbler - brings up some good points but there is so so little he has done. should share his wisdom more if town
Yamato77 - i really dunno what to say. some stuff looks town, some stuff looks incredibly anti-town
Scummy side of null:
Mr. Cheesecake - Should do something other than tell people how town he is
VisceraEyes - goes into same category with Palmar, except that i don't see anything particularly townie he has done
ObviousOne - I have really hard time reading him. I thought he was mafia before, but his reads made me feel better about him
Sylencia - big summary post of what some people have done and that's basically it..
WaveofShadow - what me + TRN said earlier today
GiygaS - Did weird stuff on D1, especially his answers to me were not pleasing
Clarity_nl - What has been brought up today
ShiaoPi - What Vivax said
If you got questions, ask me and i'll answer.
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Palmar if you at any point flip town in this game and VE is alive i make sure he hangs.
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No, if Palmar is town he possibly can't be that wrong, can he?
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EPT
