EPTTL Mafia LXI - Page 13
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On April 27 2013 07:31 Ace wrote: because he is clueless and not reading the thread. He is just sheeping Palmar. I dont think that is a strong enough argument to make him scum. I have no idea how we can lynch anyone if we allow stuff like this to happen.. Seriously, do you need someone to say "hi, i'm scum" in thread to lynch them? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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Other points you bring up might have merit, i need to look closer into them and decide what to do. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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In addition to this, i could see ShiaoPi being lazy/uninformed/bad/whatever town, i don't see that in Clarity. He just doesn't give shit about what's going on. ##Unvote: ShiaoPi ##Vote: Clarity_nl | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
So this could be a mistake as at least two players other than Shiao have made the same mistake. Only thing that bothers me is that if Shiao did read the thread carefully he would know Kush had called VE obv-town and would notice something is wrong here. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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On April 27 2013 09:11 getmoript wrote: Honestly Ace I don't care enough to fight you over Shiao today. I've been working for 12 hours and likely have another 12 to go before I get to sleep. I just want a flip. If you have said everything you have to say already, just continue observing. There is no reason to prematurely just flip someone because people are bored. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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raynpelikoneet
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raynpelikoneet
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Ima write up soon the best vigi shots for tonight. Great lynch! | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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raynpelikoneet
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First of all, there is absolutely no way scum bussed Clarity before the very end of the day. He was a scum vigilante, and there is no way he was bussed over any scum role. If we lynched mafia D2, they would go down to 1 factional KP. If we lynched a mafia vigilante, they would lose not one but two KP during one day. No fucking way they bussed. What does this mean: There HAS to be a townie counter-wagon pushed by mafia. There absolutely has to. What were the counter-wagons for D2? VisceraEyes and ShiaoPi. I do not think ShiaoPi is mafia based on this: If ShiaoPi was mafia, that would mean mafia would have to push VE lynch very hard to secure their teammates. Who has pushed VE hard? Palmar? No, not really. There has been noone that has pushed VE hard. The only person who has tried to "convince" anyone of VE being mafia is Palmar. If Palmar was mafia, he would have put a lot more effort in lynching VE. That makes Palmar not mafia. VisceraEyes: VisceraEyes was the only one pushing ShiaoPi lynch hard. Based on what Vivax said. That's cool and everything, but until people started to consolidate to Clarity over ShiaoPi, VE showed no interest in lynching Clarity. When Ace brought up good points added to Sharrant's Clarity case, VE said "he doesn't care which of them is lynched and is willing to consolidate if needed". He never consolidates, just let's go. Also remember, noone else was interested in finding out which one of them is a better lynch other than me, Ace and VisceraEyes. VisceraEyes is mafia. Sylencia: Sylencia never gives any reasoning why he thinks people he votes for are scum. Here are his posts where he votes for people: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2013 20:45 Sylencia wrote: Ok, I'm back, and going back to the start to see what I can gather: Notes: - I don't care about meta reads very much. It's easy to manipulate, especially when people outright say 'based on X's meta, he is acting like his town self'. Unless it's obvious, I generally disregard meta arguments. Comments / Observations: - Oats v Palmar early on. The way I read it, Oats seemingly made a joke statement about Palmar, yet the response was ever so serious. Palmar: Is your vote just parked on Oats while you look for actual suspicious people or do you seriously believe that Oats was calling you out there? Since it's instant majority lynch, a single vote doesn't really matter until we get to 10+ votes, but I'm just interested if your read on Oats has changed since the initial accusation. - I was actually suspicious of gemoript due to the super weak town reads / don't kill these guys yet post until the hydra cut occurred, and valid points have been raised about that action, but I don't really want to talk about that any further. Based on one statement I make which isn't indicative of anything whatsoever makes you think I'm scummy? It's fine if you're accusing me if you have a case but casual accusations with no followups don't sit well with me since it ends up being bait for people to jump on. So other than the lack of activity which I have shown thus far, are there any other points you'd like to make? Trying. Not easy though, 20 pages of catchup doesn't make it easy to digest the content. From the pages regarding TRN and Rayn, both have been hard at work defending each other, though I don't really understand the point being raised about why Rayn isn't scum. Was he scum when he tunneled or was he town? Rayn has shown tendencies in other games to shotgun vote and accuse others, and it's seen here and from your games he can tunnel too. His behaviour is erratic and so unless there's points regarding the content being townie, I don't think anything can be said about the way he plays. You dislike Sharrant, so does that mean you suspect him or are you just putting it out there? Does Rayn's activity put him in the town books for you, because while it can be used as a basis for a case when none others appear, it's pretty alignment indicitive. If it's not part of your reasoning behind it, why is rayn already town in your eyes? (Okay, seems like this is asked later on, but I'm leaving it here as per OO's request) I'm somewhat doing the same, so I'm wondering how you can see someone as town without looking at the whole picture. I haven't really got any town reads due to this, but the fact you're able to either means you're doing something wrong, or you know something we don't. - Following from this there's a clear TRN-Sharrant-Rayn argument breaking out, with Sharrant backtracking on past accusations and rayn aggressively defending while accusing Sharrant as well. Rayn: Pushing for all millers to die (and voting on it) on day 1 honestly doesn't sound like a great plan. It wastes days where there's actually stuff to analyse, it creates a lazy town atmosphere which only helps scum, and with that comes a lot less conversation. You said you thought that BM was scum but what makes him so much more scummy at the time than someone else with low number of posts and providing just words and not content (eg. me)? In any case: This looks so dumb honestly. Ok, I'm done for now, ##vote rayn at the moment because of the weirdest irregularities in posts. If someone can tell me what of the things Sylencia says about me makes me mafia, i'm all ears. + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2013 23:58 Sylencia wrote: Oats is the vote for me. Case from Vivax + aftermath between yamato vs Oats has convinced me more to taking down Oats. The thing that was holding me back most was that my primary scum suspect (rayn) was on Oats fairly early on. However: Given that Oats never actually provided anything for us in terms of reads afterwards and posted crap about being green and telling people to push others. If he has nothing to say either: a) He's playing as the bad townie b) He's withholding that info from us to stop us from gaining more than we need from the lynch. Either case is bad for town, so that's why I'm willing to go down on Oats. ##Unvote ##Vote Oats Being bad =/= scum. Again, no reasoning why Oats is mafia. + Show Spoiler + On April 27 2013 10:05 Sylencia wrote: Clarity hasn't been here for 72 hours now .. in which case I'd much rather go for the kill on Shiao today. I won't be around for much today (though I guess you could argue I haven't been around too much), since I'm going to be at a LAN tournament, but I'll try sneak a peek at the topic whenever I can. ##Vote ShiaoPi Earlier on Sylencia says he is uneasy with voting for ShiaoPi because his scumread VE started the wagon. However he did not vote for VE earlier and never questioned him about anything. Is that how you treat your scumread? Also no mention why ShiaoPi is mafia. - Sylencia never tells why he thinks people he votes for are mafia. His votes on me/Oats were "because they are bad", and his vote on ShiaoPi is fishy. - Sylencia never questions his scumreads. He does nothing to figure out if i am scum on D1, he does nothing to figure out if Oats is scum on D1. Just votes based on "bad play". - Come D2, Sylencia doesn't seem to think i am scum any more. I question him about this, and he answers "you are still suspicious". But what does his next post say? That grush, ShiaoPi and VE are his suspects. How does that make sense? - Sylencia says this about ShiaoPi: In either case, I haven't been looking at filters like I had hoped, I've now read ShiaoPi's filter and from the points: - Considers TRN, myself and rayn to be potential scum - Hammers Oatsmaster I have to wonder why he decided to do so considering 2/3 of this suspected scum were on that wagon. In addition, the reasoning of: given that there's no deadline so a change in votes was still entirely possible makes this so wrong. As for my current vote, I'm really wanting to go with Shiao but given VE is the one who has started the wagon I don't even know if that's the right move given I still don't see him being townie in my eyes. I'm going to hold onto the vote for now, but as of right now my read on who is scum are: VE, Shiao, grush (you guys are dumb with starsenses). - This is plain out lie. ShiaoPi has never called me or TRN mafia. If you don't believe me, look at his filter. Sylencia claims he has read ShiaoPi's filter and still lies about this. - Other than that Sylencia's filter is full of useless lists and self-defence. There is nothing that comes even close to scumhunting. Sylencia is mafia WaveOfShadow: Votes Oats for: Anyway to sum it up, I'm more sure of an Oats lynch than yamato; a lot of conflicted things going on with him that I just can't be sure of. No reasoning why Oats is scum. On April 24 2013 10:48 WaveofShadow wrote: I have something small I'd like to write up for ShiaoPi but I was waiting for Daypost. I think BC is more likely to be scum than Clarity. Because I feel like specifically asking Sharrant those questions. I can ask whoever I want, whatever I want. No reasoning for any of this. I don't also understand why he wants to question his supertown read Sharrant rather than scumreads? He gives no explanation to it. Promises to write something about ShiaoPi, but never delivers. I don't see much in his filter that counts as scumhunting, hell it's fucking hard to even tell who this guy thinks is scum. There are couple of things that speak in favor of WoS however. - He called Clarity's case bad, and listed Clarity/Shiaopi/VE as suspects for D2.I don't know if this counts as town-tell, as later on he defends Clarity based on "bad townie"-card and doesn't really want to vote for VE because he wants to hear more from him. Not sure of this, but good shot either way Hopeless: I don't understand why he voted for Oats. The only thing he has done on D2 was trying to discredit Sharrant by asking why he changed his read on me. Does not mention VE/ShiaoPi/Clarity at all (besides a soft-defence on Clarity), here: Clarity's spiel about 'easy outs' doesnt look that stupid to me considering how Sharrant's read on rayn went into the abyss with no comment at all. He just dropped his read with no explanation that I can find. What gives? Then he says he is willing to hammer ShiaoPi with no reasoning given and no motivation to find out more about ShiaoPi/Clarity. Not sure of this, but good shot either way Why Palmar is third faction: I think Palmar is right about VE. He can't however push VE lynch hard, because if he did, and VE flipped scum, he would get shot. Why i think Palmar is not mafia is this. He said VE was his #1 lynch candidate in D2. He also said ShiaoPi is town, and Clarity is scum. If Palmar was mafia he would either not say ShiaoPi is town, or he would be pushing VE hard over Clarity. He did neither. If he was town however, he would have done at least something other than just call VE scum whole D2 and troll throughout the game. I don't see him being town either. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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raynpelikoneet
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On April 28 2013 08:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I like your post Rayn, but I still find it hard to believe that VE is scum. The way he's playing contrasts the scum game I played with him in PYP so much in a way I don't think he would if he landed in a scum team with two players that basically went AFK and a bunch of suspicion on him. He seems willing to pick up the glove and contribute. I will say that your counter wagon thing especially given that the scum that flipped was a vigi too holds a lot of water, but if I can compare it to the PYP game I played again; There were three lynch candidates on D1, me, VE, and shelvocke. All three of us were scum. If scum has no town presence, then these situations can happen. I don't know why you say the first bolded part. Can you explain better, i don't see it? He wanted to lynch RO and deconduo on D1, and made a big case on RO. Here he made a big case on ShiaoPi based on what Vivax said not even considering Clarity until the thread sentiment was about to change. What makes his play so different? Do you think ShiaoPi is scum aswell? Why were there no real counter wagons pushed then? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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In PYP he was the scum thread presence on D1. What's so different here and why can't he be scum based on what i said? D1 VE didn't do much, didn't push any lynch. D2 he would need to if his team is inactive/not contributing. And again, if ShiaoPi is scum and VE town, why didn't scum push VE or any other lynch? I see zero reason not to do so. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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I see zero reason to do so. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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On April 28 2013 08:48 Bill Murray wrote: rayn you're being illogical over "townie counter wagons" and such i've been in a game as scum top 3 wagons were all scum it happens I know it happens, but it's unlike. If VE is town then i would without a doubt lynch yamato. You are also being illogical: rayn looks town or hardcore bussing in agreeing with me ...gotta put him maybe more than "leaning town".. ... Lynch kush because of him and rayn having complete opposite solid stances on my "claim"... that at least has the semblance of a 50:50, which town needs. By no means would that be a "chainlynch", because I would bet kush or rayn are scum over that encounter... I don't see how having different opinion on something like that is a scumtell and why one of us has to be scum. Kush has been making very little sense but my opinion of him is that he usually does not make much sense. And i can see how he reaches his conclusions in D1 (in a weird way - agreed on that). | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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On April 28 2013 09:00 Bill Murray wrote: .. flip flopping isn't being illogical town flip flop more than scum I don't see how me and Kush having a different opinion on something and having a town read on each other makes one of us scum. I just don't see it. I think you are town and i do give you a lot of credit for making Clarity say what he did on N1, which ended up in lynching him. Sharrant however was the guy who made the case on Clarity D2 and told that we should ABSOLUTELY LYNCH CLARITY OVER ANYONE ELSE ON D2. He did push that lynch the whole day, i don't see how he deserves less credit from the lynch. Could you be more clear with your thoughts because i do not understand why you think the way you think. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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On April 28 2013 09:02 Bill Murray wrote: OK last post for me... and I'm going to take a break... I don't want to spam up the thread... Rayn, how come you said he's "shot number one" but you don't have him listed as scum? (wos) Because i wrote my post without reading any posts after the flip as i was watching Dreamhack. After my post i started reading. The moment i saw WoS claimed miller when people said he was a good vigi-shot (before that) i put up a clarification post that WoS should be #1 vigi target. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
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My town meta has me always roleclaiming when I feel I am in actual danger of death, and I NEVER lie. You did not claim in Ego despite being L-1. I wouldn't call that "not in danger of dying". Just vig this guy. | ||
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