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There are also a bunch of roles that stop lynch KP, so don't forget to factor that in.
Question: does the bodyguard prevent lynches as well as other KP?
Do the rockstar's bodyguards work like the bodyguard in this game (he can't die until they do) or do they work like a normal bodyguard (they die instead of him)
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nonono i want to be inventor
can the inventor name his invention anything he wants or does the name have to be related to what the item does?
can the inventor give himself an invention?
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I should invent the "I GAVE GONZAW A PUBLIC SELF-DT CHECK LYNCH HIM IF HE DOESNT USE IT"
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NO GONZAW I WILL BE INVENTOR
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On April 03 2013 21:00 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 18:42 Mocsta wrote:On April 03 2013 18:33 Oatsmaster wrote:On April 03 2013 13:53 Mocsta wrote:On April 03 2013 13:35 Oatsmaster wrote:
/in Not you!! Im trying to reduce the spam OK! I honestly dont spam. None of my filters go over 15 pages IIRC. Sigh this is Tue shit I'm talking about lol U never get what I mean and we end up starting shit feasts. I give up lol Disgusting.
BigDong Studios
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Hhhhhhokay.
Ima make a bad case at some point during day 1. Just wanted to put tha out there. It will almost certainly be serious tho.
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Afaik pyp games are often determined by "this bullshit". The picking phase strategy is a big part of the game.
And I sort of agree with denying scum roles, but we should limit it to one or maybe two roles, because if we have strong consensus townies early in the order then giving them actual good roles could be very powerful.
Also oats the draft order is public knowledge.
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On April 04 2013 22:47 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 22:46 Restraining Order wrote:On April 04 2013 22:44 Oatsmaster wrote:On April 04 2013 22:41 Restraining Order wrote:On April 04 2013 22:39 Oatsmaster wrote:On April 04 2013 22:36 Restraining Order wrote:On April 04 2013 22:35 Caller wrote:
oim tellin ya gits just do wot i say. any mo discussin' of deez bad scummy planz iz gonna be a big' ol scum flag fo me. so if you don' wanna incur da wrath of khaller i sugest ya gitz find somethin' else to dizcus. in meantime, just folo mah straterjee, oite? You mean, as opposed to claiming, you want people to claim. After you said claiming is nonsense and doesn't work. New rule, whoever tries to get someone lynched of a joke is scum. RO is scum. Am I mafia independently of the first sentence, or did I already try to get someone lynched without myself noticing? Pointing out contradictions is pointing out that the dude is lying and therefore scum. So yeah. Also WHO ARE YOU If I wanted to point out a person is mafia, I would have pointed out a person is mafia. However, I did no such thing. pshhhh words. Intention is far more important than mere WORDS. Why did you phrase that 'question' to Caller in a way to appear like you are discrediting him?
it's not the facts that matter, it's the meaning behind the facts.
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On April 05 2013 02:53 Caller wrote:
wait how does vivax know there are five mafia
hahaha
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this whole discussion is stupid until we get the drafting list btw
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So I guess I should assume that someone higher than me in the draft order is taking inventor ...
I know I'm decently high but I think Ryan or someone said they were going for it
I'll just have to share some of my super awesome townie invention ideas
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Lol when did I consider the number picking strategy to be very important
Afaik i haven't posted anything of substance since the game started, but I'm a little confused about what you meant by "concerned about roles" when the game started?
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On other news shelvocke is scum?
How has VE been refusing to play? A vote on ve at this point needs way more justification than the sentence he posted.
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hey guys im grading problem sets right now but i took some time off to read the thread (lol 250 new posts) and heres what i got
gonzaws artanis case:
- accurately attacks his bad case on geript
- accurately attacks artanis for "out of place complaints about the town/thread", something that seems like a decent scumhunting heuristic but i hadn't really thought about before
- "other people are ignoring him" is a bad point, there hasn't been much reason to focus on him until now
- "fake aggression" really is more of a meta point, i would need to see examples of previous cases
i really don't like oatsmaster's post (18223749), it's pretty terribad. if artanis is scum i could see oats being scum too. or even if artanis isn't scum.
i like how gonzaw is actually trying to get people to pay attention to his big post#3000 case
in here is my answer to the case on me
obviousone in his post 18223896 makes the correct distinction, what i meant when i said "picking phase strategy" was the actual role picking, all the number picking strategy was stupid. basically, the only reason the attacks on me make sense is because i said that thing about the picking phase strategy being important, and then wasn't around to actually talk about or make plans during the actual picking phase. Well, the reason i wasn't around is that i wasn't around. i have at least three other time-occuping activities (girlfriend-having, apartment-hunting, and homework-doing) that are more important to me than mafia and i was doing those things friday and saturday.
now, that angle of attack is legitimate. it's incorrect because just being afk for a few days doesn't make me mafia. but it's legitimate.
the people who are attacking me for being off my meta are just ridiculous and/or lazy. if you actually want to look into my town meta, you need to look further back than just one game. criticizing bad posts is something i quite enjoy, and if you think me doing it makes me scum then i lol. lurking on occasion is also something i do, and if you think that makes me scum then i also lol.
post 18223971 geript votes for ryan for what appears to be no reason at all, weird because i remember seeing some townie stuff from geript earlier in the game. but this post is, what, an association case between ryan and meapak, without actually saying why he things meapak is scum? and also the fact that ryan doesn't comment on gonzaws artanis case? hmmmmmm, what is geript's comment on that case?
oatsmaster wants to lynch vivax why?
artanis's response to the gonzaw case - unconvincing but not obviously wrong, not sure here.
vivax: "anyone else finding s & b scummy" lol
oh my draft numbers were [4][2]
visceraeyes 18227911 what a terrible post
deconduo had just made a case on me and was following it up with a vote
completely different than what vivax did
visceraeyes Y U NO PAY ATTENTION
gonzaw says vig shot me VIGS DONT SHOOT ME I WILL DO GOOD THINGS FOR TOWN!!!!!!!!
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okay hey austin so i still think that post where shelvocke votes for VE is like super insufficient, apparently his case was "VE is usually rash with KP but he's telling people to be rash with KP therefore he must be scum"?
he hasn't said much about much else except for a town read on ryan that doesn't make much sense but that's fine
hmmmmm, how about this as a point: he's been around a decent amount and posted a decent amount, but his posting has been very narrowly focused and he hasn't said anything about anything except for his current "focus" - first his focus was "make a case on VE" for several posts, and then he changed over and his next several posts were focused on "have a town read on ryan" - seems kind of like a scum who is very carefully parceling out his "positions" and making sure to milk each of them for posts and attention without actually doing very much, or as someone said in red mini mafia, like he's scum trying to play a "clean" game?
idk, something still feels weird about him to me
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On April 08 2013 03:43 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 02:45 deconduo wrote:
Seeing as you are having trouble with this Vivax:
-I think X is scummy
-Y votes for X
You seem to think that means I should assume Y is town. This obviously completely wrong. There is nothing stopping Y being scum and X being town. Your own read should be stopping X from being town from your perspective. But you still mentioned it, and that's what I'm holding against you currently. Attacking people for jumping on a bandwagon against your scumread in that way doesn't seem to be one of the objectives you would have if you had S & B really as scum, cause you mentioned an argument for my play being potentially scummy. An argument that should only concern you if I were joining a bandwagon against someone you don't think to be scum, and not against a scumbuddy. Should I ever see more reasons to think you're scum, I'll bring this up again cause it's a valid point in my opinion. But for now, I'm not expecting you to reply to this, cause you won't be able to dissuade me from this argument.
T_T vivax
decon isn't trying to "push a lynch" on me
he's trying to determine my alignment
and simultaneously trying to determine your alignment
you need to get out of your "everyone has to push their lynch all the time" mentality, it's only important to fixedly push a lynch like that if you have a really strong scum read or if it's getting towards the end of the day and no one or the wrong person is getting lynched.
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On April 08 2013 04:41 gonzaw wrote:
People HAVE been talking about Shevlocke. Meapak, you, and some others, ever since D1 started.
Scum can "push" any pro-town setup plan they want if they know it will never be implemented. It's also about roles so if implementing that plan gives them enormous town cred why not do it?
He didn't push it hard either so that's moot, he just proposed it, and mentioned it in passing in those "fluffy posts" here and there.
I won't really comment on Artanis "backing off". It did feel a little off to me if he was scum, but I can't take that as sole evidence he's town or some shit.
In MTG 2 Aperture did some stuff that made me back off my scum read on him (there was some stuff that made me and Prome go "Yeah this guy town", like him PMing us out of the game to tell us one of our jokes was funny or something like that)
Scum are totally able to do stuff that makes it feel "off" they are scum.
Reading his whole play though, it makes me think I should ignore that.
I don't mind shevlocke being a lynch candidate or being discussed (hopefully he shows up and does something as well), but I have no reason to lynch him over Artanis today.
I also wish someone vigs snoman and/or S&B tonight. This shit is getting ridiculous in terms of activity/caring about the game.
I'd prefer sno man dying before S&B though, for reasons previously stated.
I also want to know what Obvious concluded about Artanis when he checked his game history. He hasn't concluded anything yet
gonzaw did you read all that stuff i posted?
is there any reason you think i should be vigshot other than that i haven't been posting very much? Do you think that makes me scum or do you just want vigs to shoot lurkers?
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anyway before i go back to grading problem sets let me make my positions clear:
at the moment, i am willing to lynch shelvok because his filter reads to me like he's being very "on track" but his justifications for those things are super insufficient.
i am also willing to lynch artanis because gonzaws case seems good and artanis's response doesn't convince me he's town
out of other people who have votes at the moment, i won't support killing palmar or keirathi or ryan.
i would think about killing VE because of how bad his vote on deconduo is but it would take some persuading for me to do that.
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On April 08 2013 09:46 Sharrant wrote:Well, I can't think of anyone who commented on my Keirathi case, but here's an update for no one. + Show Spoiler +He's off my scum list after these posts. They look much more like his town games. In his scum games he's more political in his posts. In his two scum games he's had disagreements but always contested things conservatively, compared to his town games like Red where he called bullshit twenty or so times on the first day. On April 07 2013 14:57 Keirathi wrote:EBWOP: Oh, what the fuck. Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote:
StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now.
Explain the bolded. Because it sounds like made up bullshit. On April 07 2013 15:28 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 15:09 geript wrote:
Honestly Keirathi, I don't feel great about Rayn, but I don't want to put too much stock in a meta read from one game especially when I don't know much of anything about Rayn. I could see someone going for a plan that puts them early in the draft order regardless of alignment.
As for S&B I'd like to hear his response, but I like your points about how he seems to find the draft/picking phase important but doesn't actually contribute anything to them at all. So go look at his filters from past games. Dismissing a meta read because you're too lazy to look at the meta yourself is just...wtfboggle. And my point wasn't that he was just pushing a plan to get himself high in the draft order. Yes, a townie could do that too. What I don't think a townie would do is specifically say that one plan was undeniably the best plan for town, the immediately flip flop on it and say that its a bad plan now, just because a new plan came up that benefits himself more. He's putting himself above the town as a whole; suddenly and for not much reason. (Which I also contend is completely different from what town rayn just did last game.) On April 08 2013 07:54 Keirathi wrote:@rayn: good, you're back First: ##UnvoteNow, let's talk a bit: Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
1) How much time i devote to the game depends on how much time i have available. I have not ahd much time this weekend. What are you defending here? WHY are you defensive? I didn't call you out for lurking/not contributing/whatever. Weird opening statement. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How i play also depends on the setup. It's very different when everyone is vanilla or when everyone has roles. You are making a meta case and later on you say you are not even sure about my meta. How do you think anyone is going to believe you if you are not sure yourself? You're right to an extent. I said that I hadn't read your scum meta. But everything about your play has been so glaringly different from the way you JUST played as town. Why? "Because the game is different" isn't an excuse for thinking and behaving completely differently. You didn't specifically call it dumb. I was...paraphrasing, a bit. And that post you just linked came before the post where I said you were calling geript's plan dumb, which is even weirder. Let's look at the progression, exactly: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 01:20 geript wrote:
New plan: Instead of having a set 'draft list' in that say people drafting from 1-4 need to choose from a list of ABCD roles. People drafting from 5-8 need to draft from a list of EFGH, etc. etc. This makes it very risky for Scum to draft both outside of their own list and inside of their own list. This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Combine Vivax' + Geript's ideas and let these guys pick [1][1], [2][1], [3][1], [4][1], [5][1] (everyone else picks [6->] [X]):
Then: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. geript's plan was exactly that: the people in the first 4 slots (aka pod, in this case) would be limited to a certain pod of picks. You said that was unarguably the best plan for town. Then changed your mind and are saying it's a bad plan. That's what I was getting at, here. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is no reason to push any plans further when people reacted to any plans like they did. 3/4 of the people said "fuck all the plans", "i'm gonna do whatever they want so fu" or "it takes all the fun out of the game". What's the point of discussing any plans further when you already know it's not gonna happen anyways? At least i fucking provided a plan that had four town reads in it for people to discuss but no.. Everyone just hopped right over that part.. Ugh, I hate this kind of excuse. "No one else was doing anything, so I refuse to do anything too!" YOU were the one saying that the top picks needed some kind of cooperation. Why didn't you try to get any? You just got your top pick, and buggered off. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
TLDR;
- Strange reads with no progression or reasoning - maybe you should have asked me about those reads then if you do not know where my head is at. Now you are just calling me scum because you think i have not reasoned my reads well enough yet you have had no intention to even find out why my reads are what they are. It's not my job to find out why you spew out bullshit reads with no explanation. The onus is on you to explain yourself. But again, that isn't even my point AT ALL. My entire point was that the way you are acquiring those reads is entirely inconsistent with how you acquired reads in Red Team. In Red Team, you saw something you didn't like, and either made a case right there, or you started poking and prodding at the person, questioning them and their motives. This game you just drop a name. Why so different? Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- uncooperative - I see myself being the most cooperative peron before we got our roles. there are a lot of people who are way more uncooperative. After the roles were out i have had basically no time to think about the game, but that's gonna change now. Again, missed the whole point. You said that the top picks needed to be cooperative with picking powerful roles/denying scum roles. But didn't try to cooperate at all with the top picks once the draft order came out. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks - rofl, why wouldn't you want to be #1 person picking? How is this alignment indicative at all? Actually, scum would more likely try to avoid being the #1 picker because that automatically gives you a lot of attention and less chances to fakeclaim later if needed. Also the top guys are gonna get killed anyways early on as they probably have the "best" roles in the game. If they do not die it brings more attention to them. I already addressed that. No, trying to get yourself in a top pick isn't scummy, in itself. Rapidly changing your mind to a plan that benefits you more, personally, than town, and then refusing to back up your opinions on cooperating with the other top picks is scummy, though. I'm looking forward to seeing what you contribute today, though. Hopefully you can change my mind. Regarding Artanis I'm going to do some more reading tonight, but he has some posts that I find quite townie. I think they show that he is trying to contribute, as well as a clear thought process in attempting to help the town determine what is best in the draft phase. Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 17:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
So if I'm getting things right we plan on giving strong town reads effectively VT roles, correct? Though the idea of stopping strong scum roles is appealing, there are a myriad of strong roles in the game and I don't think sacrificing strong townreads that can pick early (and therefore are unlikely to be blocked by anyone) VT roles just to stop scum from picking certain roles is good.
1. They'll know exactly what X players before them picked so they can dodge roles that would otherwise make them VT.
2. Strong townreads end up with a public VT role rather than being able to help town beyond their scumhunting.
3. The townVT to scumVT balance will shift heavily in scum's favour
4. If there's scum before the last strong townread assigned to a scumrole, it could easily be sniped anyway.
I think it's best if everyone hides their picks since it'll give scum the least amount of information and prevent them from having safe picks. Gives critical input on a plan as opposed to negative input, and has his first iteration of a plan: Everyone pick as discretely as possible. Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. Again giving critical input and creating a new plan, or at the very least a new iteration in Yamato's plan. Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. No one's actually addressed this yet, especially Yamato which I find strange as it's an improvement upon his plan. I'd propose we use it for 2 roles at the most though. Past that, it just becomes too unreliable. I don't like the VT claiming idea. Players that ended up with a VT role are still important to town in one way: Taking hits that would otherwise land on blues. I don't think the info gained on roles is worth this downside. There might be exceptions in certain situations (such as a player high up in the list claiming VT when he tried to pick a scummy role), but as the norm I'd be against it. Brings up his idea again, stating he believes it's an improvement to the plan, and again is applying critical thinking about the picking strategies that others are proposing. I don't see this as "hiding in set up speculation" I see this as someone applying critical thought as to how the town can start the game off with the most advantageous, and start the mafia off with the least. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 08:21 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
The accountability is a good point actually, I hadn't thought about that yet. Hm. Still think it's better than doing nothing at all though since without any rules at all there's no accountability anyway.
Will sleep on it. He takes criticism on his plan well, says he'll take time to think about it. To me it reads really townie,especially because of a later post where he brings up that the route town was going had no accountability. His posts to me show the thought process of someone trying to min/max the drafting system, and follows a plausible planning process. As I said earlier, I'll take a further look into him, and read the cases more thoroughly, but to me he reads as at least decently townie. I'm going to post this now, I'll be reading and writing for a (hopefully) larger post, so if anyone else is going to be on for a bit, let's chat about someone, I'll even let you pick who.
hi sharrant
i don't think you are right in interpreting those posts as townie, those are things scum could do as well - both because setup discussion is always fertile ground for scum to grow the rare towncred-flower, and because it was (or at least, it seemed to me) clear that this town was too fractious for a real plan to come together.
that said i like that you are taking this seriously and giving real thought to what you're saying
it seems like you haven't been commenting much on stuff since the end of the setup phase but that may be because you play more like i did when i was a new player, with a lot of full sentences and capitalization and well-thought-out posts
so how about lets talk about a player? I randomly chose obviousone. i wrote up a few sentences about his post about artanis, how about you do the same and then we can both post ours after i finish my next dota game?
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On April 08 2013 10:31 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 10:30 strongandbig wrote:On April 08 2013 09:46 Sharrant wrote:Well, I can't think of anyone who commented on my Keirathi case, but here's an update for no one. + Show Spoiler +He's off my scum list after these posts. They look much more like his town games. In his scum games he's more political in his posts. In his two scum games he's had disagreements but always contested things conservatively, compared to his town games like Red where he called bullshit twenty or so times on the first day. On April 07 2013 14:57 Keirathi wrote:EBWOP: Oh, what the fuck. Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote:
StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now.
Explain the bolded. Because it sounds like made up bullshit. On April 07 2013 15:28 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 15:09 geript wrote:
Honestly Keirathi, I don't feel great about Rayn, but I don't want to put too much stock in a meta read from one game especially when I don't know much of anything about Rayn. I could see someone going for a plan that puts them early in the draft order regardless of alignment.
As for S&B I'd like to hear his response, but I like your points about how he seems to find the draft/picking phase important but doesn't actually contribute anything to them at all. So go look at his filters from past games. Dismissing a meta read because you're too lazy to look at the meta yourself is just...wtfboggle. And my point wasn't that he was just pushing a plan to get himself high in the draft order. Yes, a townie could do that too. What I don't think a townie would do is specifically say that one plan was undeniably the best plan for town, the immediately flip flop on it and say that its a bad plan now, just because a new plan came up that benefits himself more. He's putting himself above the town as a whole; suddenly and for not much reason. (Which I also contend is completely different from what town rayn just did last game.) On April 08 2013 07:54 Keirathi wrote:@rayn: good, you're back First: ##UnvoteNow, let's talk a bit: Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
1) How much time i devote to the game depends on how much time i have available. I have not ahd much time this weekend. What are you defending here? WHY are you defensive? I didn't call you out for lurking/not contributing/whatever. Weird opening statement. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How i play also depends on the setup. It's very different when everyone is vanilla or when everyone has roles. You are making a meta case and later on you say you are not even sure about my meta. How do you think anyone is going to believe you if you are not sure yourself? You're right to an extent. I said that I hadn't read your scum meta. But everything about your play has been so glaringly different from the way you JUST played as town. Why? "Because the game is different" isn't an excuse for thinking and behaving completely differently. You didn't specifically call it dumb. I was...paraphrasing, a bit. And that post you just linked came before the post where I said you were calling geript's plan dumb, which is even weirder. Let's look at the progression, exactly: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 01:20 geript wrote:
New plan: Instead of having a set 'draft list' in that say people drafting from 1-4 need to choose from a list of ABCD roles. People drafting from 5-8 need to draft from a list of EFGH, etc. etc. This makes it very risky for Scum to draft both outside of their own list and inside of their own list. This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Combine Vivax' + Geript's ideas and let these guys pick [1][1], [2][1], [3][1], [4][1], [5][1] (everyone else picks [6->] [X]):
Then: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. geript's plan was exactly that: the people in the first 4 slots (aka pod, in this case) would be limited to a certain pod of picks. You said that was unarguably the best plan for town. Then changed your mind and are saying it's a bad plan. That's what I was getting at, here. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is no reason to push any plans further when people reacted to any plans like they did. 3/4 of the people said "fuck all the plans", "i'm gonna do whatever they want so fu" or "it takes all the fun out of the game". What's the point of discussing any plans further when you already know it's not gonna happen anyways? At least i fucking provided a plan that had four town reads in it for people to discuss but no.. Everyone just hopped right over that part.. Ugh, I hate this kind of excuse. "No one else was doing anything, so I refuse to do anything too!" YOU were the one saying that the top picks needed some kind of cooperation. Why didn't you try to get any? You just got your top pick, and buggered off. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
TLDR;
- Strange reads with no progression or reasoning - maybe you should have asked me about those reads then if you do not know where my head is at. Now you are just calling me scum because you think i have not reasoned my reads well enough yet you have had no intention to even find out why my reads are what they are. It's not my job to find out why you spew out bullshit reads with no explanation. The onus is on you to explain yourself. But again, that isn't even my point AT ALL. My entire point was that the way you are acquiring those reads is entirely inconsistent with how you acquired reads in Red Team. In Red Team, you saw something you didn't like, and either made a case right there, or you started poking and prodding at the person, questioning them and their motives. This game you just drop a name. Why so different? Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- uncooperative - I see myself being the most cooperative peron before we got our roles. there are a lot of people who are way more uncooperative. After the roles were out i have had basically no time to think about the game, but that's gonna change now. Again, missed the whole point. You said that the top picks needed to be cooperative with picking powerful roles/denying scum roles. But didn't try to cooperate at all with the top picks once the draft order came out. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks - rofl, why wouldn't you want to be #1 person picking? How is this alignment indicative at all? Actually, scum would more likely try to avoid being the #1 picker because that automatically gives you a lot of attention and less chances to fakeclaim later if needed. Also the top guys are gonna get killed anyways early on as they probably have the "best" roles in the game. If they do not die it brings more attention to them. I already addressed that. No, trying to get yourself in a top pick isn't scummy, in itself. Rapidly changing your mind to a plan that benefits you more, personally, than town, and then refusing to back up your opinions on cooperating with the other top picks is scummy, though. I'm looking forward to seeing what you contribute today, though. Hopefully you can change my mind. Regarding Artanis I'm going to do some more reading tonight, but he has some posts that I find quite townie. I think they show that he is trying to contribute, as well as a clear thought process in attempting to help the town determine what is best in the draft phase. On April 04 2013 17:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
So if I'm getting things right we plan on giving strong town reads effectively VT roles, correct? Though the idea of stopping strong scum roles is appealing, there are a myriad of strong roles in the game and I don't think sacrificing strong townreads that can pick early (and therefore are unlikely to be blocked by anyone) VT roles just to stop scum from picking certain roles is good.
1. They'll know exactly what X players before them picked so they can dodge roles that would otherwise make them VT.
2. Strong townreads end up with a public VT role rather than being able to help town beyond their scumhunting.
3. The townVT to scumVT balance will shift heavily in scum's favour
4. If there's scum before the last strong townread assigned to a scumrole, it could easily be sniped anyway.
I think it's best if everyone hides their picks since it'll give scum the least amount of information and prevent them from having safe picks. Gives critical input on a plan as opposed to negative input, and has his first iteration of a plan: Everyone pick as discretely as possible. On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. Again giving critical input and creating a new plan, or at the very least a new iteration in Yamato's plan. On April 04 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. No one's actually addressed this yet, especially Yamato which I find strange as it's an improvement upon his plan. I'd propose we use it for 2 roles at the most though. Past that, it just becomes too unreliable. I don't like the VT claiming idea. Players that ended up with a VT role are still important to town in one way: Taking hits that would otherwise land on blues. I don't think the info gained on roles is worth this downside. There might be exceptions in certain situations (such as a player high up in the list claiming VT when he tried to pick a scummy role), but as the norm I'd be against it. Brings up his idea again, stating he believes it's an improvement to the plan, and again is applying critical thinking about the picking strategies that others are proposing. I don't see this as "hiding in set up speculation" I see this as someone applying critical thought as to how the town can start the game off with the most advantageous, and start the mafia off with the least. On April 05 2013 08:21 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
The accountability is a good point actually, I hadn't thought about that yet. Hm. Still think it's better than doing nothing at all though since without any rules at all there's no accountability anyway.
Will sleep on it. He takes criticism on his plan well, says he'll take time to think about it. To me it reads really townie,especially because of a later post where he brings up that the route town was going had no accountability. His posts to me show the thought process of someone trying to min/max the drafting system, and follows a plausible planning process. As I said earlier, I'll take a further look into him, and read the cases more thoroughly, but to me he reads as at least decently townie. I'm going to post this now, I'll be reading and writing for a (hopefully) larger post, so if anyone else is going to be on for a bit, let's chat about someone, I'll even let you pick who. hi sharrant i don't think you are right in interpreting those posts as townie, those are things scum could do as well - both because setup discussion is always fertile ground for scum to grow the rare towncred-flower, and because it was (or at least, it seemed to me) clear that this town was too fractious for a real plan to come together. that said i like that you are taking this seriously and giving real thought to what you're saying it seems like you haven't been commenting much on stuff since the end of the setup phase but that may be because you play more like i did when i was a new player, with a lot of full sentences and capitalization and well-thought-out posts so how about lets talk about a player? I randomly chose obviousone. i wrote up a few sentences about his post about artanis, how about you do the same and then we can both post ours after i finish my next dota game? Commercial break. Come at me bro.
i want sharrant to go at you bro
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On April 08 2013 11:21 Sharrant wrote:@StrongandBig Hi! I'll try and give you a sort of stream of consciousness on this one, and hopefully that will actually help me figure out where I stand on him. I've read through his filter a few times and I always notice things that send me in opposite directions on his alignment. + Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:25 ObviousOne wrote:Okay duders, raid night is over. Going for a quick re-read of the past half day after I post this since I've been tabbing out to catch what I could during down time. First impressions: I saw that Oats is/was under some suspicion (just going from memory, don't recall if it was talked out or not) but Oats is Oats; he's a bit all over the place but I don't see the same intent to shut things down that someone mentioned earlier. He was just as loud and all-over in RED. Null still. RO seems to want to be more helpful than I remember him being as scum in LX, not feeling what you guys that are suspicious of him are feeling there, either. Got my eye on Rayn at the moment. His style was spammy but usually constructive (at least in telling us what he was thinking) and I've got none of that after the first couple pages of his filter. Ten one-liners in a row or something, doesn't match up to his standard attacking pattern from RED. The attacks there were thought-out, here they mostly look like casual accusations perhaps fishing for reactions? The only points he has going for him is that he's absolutely confused about what is going on regarding the draft process: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 12:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Should we have our roles by now? Rayn, if you are serious about RO being scum then lay if out for me in one clean concise post, and if you are not, who are you most suspicious of right now? Or are you just drunk again?
Other stuff: Most of the chat was about planning how to set up the top spots to get roles protected, is that still a thing? I'm spot 2 somehow, and I was thinking about taking America because America, fuck yeah! Is that going to make me a Pariah or something? Girls just wanna have fun, you know? I'll use it as a second lynch like was suggested yesterday or I can just sit on it if you guys are paranoid about it. Going back for that re-read and making some coffee. See you in a bit when I'm finished with that. PS: Seriously guys, the spam, cut it out, I decided to avoid large games because of the sheer volume of posts so please be less liberal with one-liners, thank you! This post felt very airy, it certainly felt to me like a post that was primarily summation. There are some good questions in there, but there's no hard stances. The closest he comes to that is that he says he's got his eye on Rayn, but then never specifically says he was scummy. Points out he doesn't give fit his previous town meta, but then he gives him an out on it anyways saying that he might be fishing for reactions. I actually noticed something that really has me leaning towards scum on him now. He makes 2 posts specifically stating for people not to spam, and has several posts insulting BM for making small spammy posts with no content. I read this as townie when I first skimmed through his filter, but looking at it again There's something very wrong. + Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:25 ObviousOne wrote:.
PS: Seriously guys, the spam, cut it out, I decided to avoid large games because of the sheer volume of posts so please be less liberal with one-liners, thank you! On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote:
... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 12:16 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 12:13 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 12:11 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 12:01 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 11:51 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 11:43 Bill Murray wrote:
DECONDUO
WHAT ARE YOUR READS ON WHO ARE WHAT? Palmar is afk, but that's normal.FoS Deconduo On April 05 2013 01:29 Palmar wrote:
I always suck at PYP games because I find the role discussion so boring I skip it. PTP 1: 3 posts before Day 1 PTP 2: 8 posts before Day 1 PYP Redux: 7 posts before Day 1 PYP Boardwalk: 18 posts before Day 1 Unless you're saying he's less afk than normal, I don't know why you think I'm wrong. well i guess he doesnt play like me anymore You say that like it's a bad thing. Look at his posts: + Show Spoiler +On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 09:59 Restraining Order wrote:In fact, I'm just going to quote myself on this matter. On April 05 2013 11:30 Restraining Order wrote:
Pick assassin and try to kill me with please.
That way I don't actually die to your stupidity.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll stop reading your posts henceforth. Wouldn't be a problem if you'd actually think I'm mafia  I'll indulge your soft town claim for a moment and simply ask you why your list contains 9 people. If you can justify all 9 in some way at least we'll know whether or not you're talking the breeze with these myriad suspicions. On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote:
EBWOP: Oops, looks like I miscounted, make that 10. On April 06 2013 10:08 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 10:06 Restraining Order wrote:On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote:
EBWOP: Oops, looks like I miscounted, make that 10. No, it's 9. I have no idea where VE got the Caller thing from, and it's sad you just take his word. If I've misread it please tell me how. It won't be the first time. I spent like 24 hours in Fruity misreading every little thing so just straighten me out instead of spitting in my face, thx. On April 06 2013 10:09 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 10:08 VisceraEyes wrote:
Actually I misread the quote-pyramid. He was saying he wanted to lynch Kier when I thought he was replying to Caller. My mistake. .... On April 06 2013 11:28 ObviousOne wrote:
WTF are all these random ass reads BM? Is this what you always do? On April 06 2013 11:38 ObviousOne wrote:RIGHT ABOUT WHAT PLEASE TYPE MORE JESUS FUCK On April 06 2013 12:16 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 12:13 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 12:11 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 12:01 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 11:51 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 11:43 Bill Murray wrote:
DECONDUO
WHAT ARE YOUR READS ON WHO ARE WHAT? Palmar is afk, but that's normal.FoS Deconduo On April 05 2013 01:29 Palmar wrote:
I always suck at PYP games because I find the role discussion so boring I skip it. PTP 1: 3 posts before Day 1 PTP 2: 8 posts before Day 1 PYP Redux: 7 posts before Day 1 PYP Boardwalk: 18 posts before Day 1 Unless you're saying he's less afk than normal, I don't know why you think I'm wrong. well i guess he doesnt play like me anymore You say that like it's a bad thing. On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote:
... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 13:29 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote:
... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. Okay I'm laughing my ass off at this but really, three dot points or something. Substance, please. Who do you want to lynch D1? On April 06 2013 13:52 ObviousOne wrote:... not sure what to make of this but way to leave yourself open to accusations of a scum slip. Wow that's really bad looking. Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:37 geript wrote:I figured out why I don't like the case on RestrainingOrder at all. In The Game, I got to watch both Bugs and Kita push absolute bullshit towards town's direct. It was well crafted bullshit, but bullshit none the less. VE's case is an exact example of this type of thing for a few reasons: 1. The townread/lynch stuff + Show Spoiler +On April 06 2013 09:42 VisceraEyes wrote:
So RO wants to lynch inside [Caller, Palmar, Decon, VE, Kierathi, Artanis, austin, OO, Vivax, sn0] before D1 starts. That's cool I guess, but some of those names sound familiar. Where have I seen those names before?
...
Oh that's right. In that OTHER post where he made a list and said "4/5 are townies", he wants to lynch 3/5 of them. Any little thing that we could catch where town fucked up, changed reads, etc. It's perfect to attack because it seems so simple and plausible. Town in general are not going to be filtering themselves constantly to see their positions, know where they stood on exact people, etc. Whereas as scum, we were quite often referencing ourselves to see what stances were plausible for us to take. I can't wholly ignore the possibility that RO may just be lazy scum, hell he lurked most of LX until his teammate shot him. However, it's stupid to think that this early on that scum would make a slip this big. It's far more likely to be bad/stupid town. This isn't particularly scummy. On April 06 2013 13:57 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:54 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 13:28 Mocsta wrote:@ArtanisXpI would like to continue discussion regarding your Geript case. Specifically, your qualms with Geripts wishy-washiness on whether I am town as follows: + Show Spoiler [Artanis on Geript] +On April 06 2013 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote:
I'm not saying that you haven't done anything not town Mocsta-ish. There's just a very specific heuristic that town Mocsta seems to follow that you haven't hit on yet for me. I'm leaning town on you but until you get that one aspect I have a hard time putting you there fully.
As for your posting, I really like it. Translates to: =============================== On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote:Hi, I think you're being townie, but you're not being you-townie, yet I still think you're townie but I'm not sure if you're townie. Oh and I think you're pretty townie. =============================== Why on earth would a townie post this?
WHY?Mocsta wasn't even close to being in danger, and the town motivation for calling someone town, then suspicious, then town eludes me. What I find curious about the above, is when we start discussing Geript and you comment the below: + Show Spoiler [Artanis WishyWashy] +On April 06 2013 09:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I had you as weak town before our exchange, and the post you made questioned that read, so I questioned you. At first I thought it made you null again, but rereading it I realized that your wishy-washy post wouldn't make sense if Geript is scum, because he created an easy way for you to defend him which you denied. Since I believe Geript to be scum that makes you fairly town. On April 06 2013 09:16 Mocsta wrote:
Lol.. and if he is town.. what then? On April 06 2013 09:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
[red]Then you'd be null again. I find this interchange ironic, as you flip flop regarding my alignment much to the same manner Geript does. Let me guess, the heuristic doesnt apply to your play?
Further, I shall ask the same question I asked Geript. On April 05 2013 15:18 Mocsta wrote:
Im not sure why I need to know you have me as town though? Nor why everyone else needs to know?
Im asking because, Im still trying to figure out if that affects my perception of you. town are more likely to flip flop than mafia On April 06 2013 13:29 ObviousOne wrote:On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote:
... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 13:26 Bill Murray wrote:
meta Okay I'm laughing my ass off at this but really, three dot points or something. Substance, please. Who do you want to lynch D1? AustinMCC at this point is betraying his blue meta as a lurker that I've seen He had a plan that would help the mafia, too, in regards to town picking from the mafia role list It wouldn't surprise me at all to see the mafia have taken from more "town" roles than "mafia" ones By that token, I don't expect there is a Godfather So do you know who is mafia or are you saying AustinMCC is a town read of yours? ALL of those posts were one after another. They're spread out over 4 hours, but it's 11 posts that are almost entirely one liners, some without even any text. Yet he was saying don't spam, make good quality posts. Why wasn't he doing that too? + Show Spoiler +On April 08 2013 08:24 ObviousOne wrote:
Also sorry to dine and dash but my cousin wants to hang out, back in a few hours if I manage to be wakeful when I get home.
Oh, gotta vote too. On April 08 2013 09:58 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 09:54 Palmar wrote:
I think it's mafia defending me, I look too scummy for townies to defend me.
why is there no machine gun role that can kill like 8 people on day 1, I'd have liked that.
Also there really is not enough killing this game. Bored Walk Empire Mafiyawn: Pull Your Pud =[ On April 08 2013 10:25 ObviousOne wrote:
Undertaker 21-0
GG no RE On April 08 2013 10:31 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 10:30 strongandbig wrote:On April 08 2013 09:46 Sharrant wrote:Well, I can't think of anyone who commented on my Keirathi case, but here's an update for no one. + Show Spoiler +He's off my scum list after these posts. They look much more like his town games. In his scum games he's more political in his posts. In his two scum games he's had disagreements but always contested things conservatively, compared to his town games like Red where he called bullshit twenty or so times on the first day. On April 07 2013 14:57 Keirathi wrote:EBWOP: Oh, what the fuck. Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote:
StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now.
Explain the bolded. Because it sounds like made up bullshit. On April 07 2013 15:28 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 15:09 geript wrote:
Honestly Keirathi, I don't feel great about Rayn, but I don't want to put too much stock in a meta read from one game especially when I don't know much of anything about Rayn. I could see someone going for a plan that puts them early in the draft order regardless of alignment.
As for S&B I'd like to hear his response, but I like your points about how he seems to find the draft/picking phase important but doesn't actually contribute anything to them at all. So go look at his filters from past games. Dismissing a meta read because you're too lazy to look at the meta yourself is just...wtfboggle. And my point wasn't that he was just pushing a plan to get himself high in the draft order. Yes, a townie could do that too. What I don't think a townie would do is specifically say that one plan was undeniably the best plan for town, the immediately flip flop on it and say that its a bad plan now, just because a new plan came up that benefits himself more. He's putting himself above the town as a whole; suddenly and for not much reason. (Which I also contend is completely different from what town rayn just did last game.) On April 08 2013 07:54 Keirathi wrote:@rayn: good, you're back First: ##UnvoteNow, let's talk a bit: Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
1) How much time i devote to the game depends on how much time i have available. I have not ahd much time this weekend. What are you defending here? WHY are you defensive? I didn't call you out for lurking/not contributing/whatever. Weird opening statement. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How i play also depends on the setup. It's very different when everyone is vanilla or when everyone has roles. You are making a meta case and later on you say you are not even sure about my meta. How do you think anyone is going to believe you if you are not sure yourself? You're right to an extent. I said that I hadn't read your scum meta. But everything about your play has been so glaringly different from the way you JUST played as town. Why? "Because the game is different" isn't an excuse for thinking and behaving completely differently. You didn't specifically call it dumb. I was...paraphrasing, a bit. And that post you just linked came before the post where I said you were calling geript's plan dumb, which is even weirder. Let's look at the progression, exactly: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 01:20 geript wrote:
New plan: Instead of having a set 'draft list' in that say people drafting from 1-4 need to choose from a list of ABCD roles. People drafting from 5-8 need to draft from a list of EFGH, etc. etc. This makes it very risky for Scum to draft both outside of their own list and inside of their own list. This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Combine Vivax' + Geript's ideas and let these guys pick [1][1], [2][1], [3][1], [4][1], [5][1] (everyone else picks [6->] [X]):
Then: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. geript's plan was exactly that: the people in the first 4 slots (aka pod, in this case) would be limited to a certain pod of picks. You said that was unarguably the best plan for town. Then changed your mind and are saying it's a bad plan. That's what I was getting at, here. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is no reason to push any plans further when people reacted to any plans like they did. 3/4 of the people said "fuck all the plans", "i'm gonna do whatever they want so fu" or "it takes all the fun out of the game". What's the point of discussing any plans further when you already know it's not gonna happen anyways? At least i fucking provided a plan that had four town reads in it for people to discuss but no.. Everyone just hopped right over that part.. Ugh, I hate this kind of excuse. "No one else was doing anything, so I refuse to do anything too!" YOU were the one saying that the top picks needed some kind of cooperation. Why didn't you try to get any? You just got your top pick, and buggered off. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
TLDR;
- Strange reads with no progression or reasoning - maybe you should have asked me about those reads then if you do not know where my head is at. Now you are just calling me scum because you think i have not reasoned my reads well enough yet you have had no intention to even find out why my reads are what they are. It's not my job to find out why you spew out bullshit reads with no explanation. The onus is on you to explain yourself. But again, that isn't even my point AT ALL. My entire point was that the way you are acquiring those reads is entirely inconsistent with how you acquired reads in Red Team. In Red Team, you saw something you didn't like, and either made a case right there, or you started poking and prodding at the person, questioning them and their motives. This game you just drop a name. Why so different? Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- uncooperative - I see myself being the most cooperative peron before we got our roles. there are a lot of people who are way more uncooperative. After the roles were out i have had basically no time to think about the game, but that's gonna change now. Again, missed the whole point. You said that the top picks needed to be cooperative with picking powerful roles/denying scum roles. But didn't try to cooperate at all with the top picks once the draft order came out. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks - rofl, why wouldn't you want to be #1 person picking? How is this alignment indicative at all? Actually, scum would more likely try to avoid being the #1 picker because that automatically gives you a lot of attention and less chances to fakeclaim later if needed. Also the top guys are gonna get killed anyways early on as they probably have the "best" roles in the game. If they do not die it brings more attention to them. I already addressed that. No, trying to get yourself in a top pick isn't scummy, in itself. Rapidly changing your mind to a plan that benefits you more, personally, than town, and then refusing to back up your opinions on cooperating with the other top picks is scummy, though. I'm looking forward to seeing what you contribute today, though. Hopefully you can change my mind. Regarding Artanis I'm going to do some more reading tonight, but he has some posts that I find quite townie. I think they show that he is trying to contribute, as well as a clear thought process in attempting to help the town determine what is best in the draft phase. On April 04 2013 17:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
So if I'm getting things right we plan on giving strong town reads effectively VT roles, correct? Though the idea of stopping strong scum roles is appealing, there are a myriad of strong roles in the game and I don't think sacrificing strong townreads that can pick early (and therefore are unlikely to be blocked by anyone) VT roles just to stop scum from picking certain roles is good.
1. They'll know exactly what X players before them picked so they can dodge roles that would otherwise make them VT.
2. Strong townreads end up with a public VT role rather than being able to help town beyond their scumhunting.
3. The townVT to scumVT balance will shift heavily in scum's favour
4. If there's scum before the last strong townread assigned to a scumrole, it could easily be sniped anyway.
I think it's best if everyone hides their picks since it'll give scum the least amount of information and prevent them from having safe picks. Gives critical input on a plan as opposed to negative input, and has his first iteration of a plan: Everyone pick as discretely as possible. On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. Again giving critical input and creating a new plan, or at the very least a new iteration in Yamato's plan. On April 04 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. No one's actually addressed this yet, especially Yamato which I find strange as it's an improvement upon his plan. I'd propose we use it for 2 roles at the most though. Past that, it just becomes too unreliable. I don't like the VT claiming idea. Players that ended up with a VT role are still important to town in one way: Taking hits that would otherwise land on blues. I don't think the info gained on roles is worth this downside. There might be exceptions in certain situations (such as a player high up in the list claiming VT when he tried to pick a scummy role), but as the norm I'd be against it. Brings up his idea again, stating he believes it's an improvement to the plan, and again is applying critical thinking about the picking strategies that others are proposing. I don't see this as "hiding in set up speculation" I see this as someone applying critical thought as to how the town can start the game off with the most advantageous, and start the mafia off with the least. On April 05 2013 08:21 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
The accountability is a good point actually, I hadn't thought about that yet. Hm. Still think it's better than doing nothing at all though since without any rules at all there's no accountability anyway.
Will sleep on it. He takes criticism on his plan well, says he'll take time to think about it. To me it reads really townie,especially because of a later post where he brings up that the route town was going had no accountability. His posts to me show the thought process of someone trying to min/max the drafting system, and follows a plausible planning process. As I said earlier, I'll take a further look into him, and read the cases more thoroughly, but to me he reads as at least decently townie. I'm going to post this now, I'll be reading and writing for a (hopefully) larger post, so if anyone else is going to be on for a bit, let's chat about someone, I'll even let you pick who. hi sharrant i don't think you are right in interpreting those posts as townie, those are things scum could do as well - both because setup discussion is always fertile ground for scum to grow the rare towncred-flower, and because it was (or at least, it seemed to me) clear that this town was too fractious for a real plan to come together. that said i like that you are taking this seriously and giving real thought to what you're saying it seems like you haven't been commenting much on stuff since the end of the setup phase but that may be because you play more like i did when i was a new player, with a lot of full sentences and capitalization and well-thought-out posts so how about lets talk about a player? I randomly chose obviousone. i wrote up a few sentences about his post about artanis, how about you do the same and then we can both post ours after i finish my next dota game? Commercial break. Come at me bro. On April 08 2013 10:46 ObviousOne wrote:
Mocsta. I love you dearly. Please make paragraphs.
Or
I'll
Do
This
Just
To
Explain
Why
It's
Annoying
And
Difficult
To
Read. On April 08 2013 10:52 ObviousOne wrote:
@Mocsta
<3 never change Look at all the spam there. And the kicker, Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 10:28 ObviousOne wrote:On April 08 2013 10:24 Mocsta wrote:
Gonzaw
Unrelated question.
Do you think I spamming up the thread?
I am asking because my last couple posts have all been big text walls; and not sure if Im getting my message across succinctly at the moment.
Who cares at this point. Give the lurkers a shit load of posts to read when they get back. Let them cry. Let them complain. They will sheep anyway. Your question wouldn't even be relevant if everyone was participating. Be the Mocsta we know and love. Fuck the haters. Straight up saying to spam. Call it a joke, or whatever, but that kind of conflicting mindset isn't townie. ##vote: ObviousOneYou can't stay in line with your own thinking at all, I think that's because you're scum.
thanks!
here's mine
OO's artanis case:
- most of the traits he picks out are not mutually exclusive or alignment indicative
- no attempt to explain the connection between his "meta research" and the conclusion at the end of his post
- most of the things he highlights about artanis in tl mafia 51 are equally likely to be explained by the fact that it was a large game as the fact that he was scum
- basically the only real points he makes are that artanis has not posted much and that artanis is missing the "edge of sarcasm" that he has as town
- imo nebulousthings like the "edge of sarcasm" are equally likely explained by confirmation bias as by them being real, especially when they're just asserted without quotes
so what does this mean about oo's alignment?
- first, the actual fact that the case is qwrong doesn't mean anything aboput it. townies make wrong cases
- second, however, the fact that oo went to all the trouble of highlighting trhe stuff he read from artanis's old games, but then didn't actually draw any conclusions from it but ended up making exactly the same points gonzaw did, makes me think he cares more about the appearance of effort than actually getting anything out of the effort itself. diong all that work to read all those filters and making a list fo traits and then ignoring that list when he makes his final analysis just really doesnt make much sense ot me from a townie pov.
- that said, i got exactly the same feeling about oo in RED mafia just now and he flipped town. so i'm hesitant to put too much weight on this point wrt him specifically. basically what i learned from RED mafia about him is that it's entirely possible for him to put in a shitload of effort and not actually get anything useful out of it.
- so conclusion: very weak but lean scum.
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the people saying gonzaw was killed to help keep artanis alive are stupid, there's no way that would work.
wifomwifomwifom
more likely that he was killed because one of his "potential dayvig targets" is scum?
or just because scum figured out his role and decided to kill him while they could?
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did anyone try to pick assassin and get denied?
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Actually wait never mind if you claim that te assassin could ki you
Fuck, not sure what to do about that
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we should absolutely be lynching between artanis, shelvocke, and VE today.
IMO we should be lynching VE.
For a scum that high up to take NRA member instead of some active KP role, they would have to think of themselves as a likely check or other night action target. It doesn't make sense just to have a lurker take it and hope to get vigged instead of lynched.
VE is the only one of the list above geript who is a likely check or vig target but not a likely early lynch.
Plus, if you look at his play it's like he's trying to draw vig shots or dt checks.
He is most likely the scum NRA member.
Plus unlike artanis or shelvocke, if he is the NRA member then there's no hope for investigative roles to clear up the questions about him.
IMO we should lynch ve.
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Yeah I agree with what I said before about VE.
I still think artanis is decently likely to be scum, as is shelvocke and to a lesser extent OO.
But I'm gonna go ahead and
##vote: VE
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On April 09 2013 01:22 Sn0_Man wrote:
How does caller get away with bullshit like that?
I picked 1,1, he knows it, I've outed it to the thread before and during the game. This frustrates me...
Apparently caller in game is like a less cool version of chezinu
Another topic - if anyone tried to get traitor and was rejected they should probably claim.
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hey sno-man a few pages back sharrant and i each shared our reads on obviousone. wanna join the "trying to be less lurky" party? poop us out a read on obviousone
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On April 09 2013 02:54 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 02:53 strongandbig wrote:
hey sno-man a few pages back sharrant and i each shared our reads on obviousone. wanna join the "trying to be less lurky" party? poop us out a read on obviousone Plox to wait until the shelvocke question is answered.
yeah thats fine
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On April 09 2013 02:58 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 02:53 strongandbig wrote:
hey sno-man a few pages back sharrant and i each shared our reads on obviousone. wanna join the "trying to be less lurky" party? poop us out a read on obviousone "Hey Sn0 give us a read on every person in the thread" no fuck you I don't like big games. I think Sinani is the best lynch today and there is my vote. Other people I don't like (but don't expect to lynch either) include oatsmaster and to an extent bill murray. I joined this PYP because its PYP so hopefully some interesting stuff happens tonight. I'm more interested in cool roles and interactions and that stuff and less interested in the traditional mafia scumhunt. I've played all my games with an eye towards solving stuff (with logic and blue roles) rather than having good reads on people.
well, hopefully someone will shoot you tonight
you can't just say 'fuck you im not going to play'
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ninja vote by DI
he's voting for the same person as I am so i'm not all like "omg scum"
but just thought i would mention it
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wait you think caller really used showtime?
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oh lol they were both mafia
nice
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Was Artanis a "GF assassin" because of a character bonus?
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also nice job to gonzaw, 3000 post case didn't just hit scum, it hit the scum godfather assassin
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does the emperor's lynch have to be typed in the thread like a king lynch or is the emperor's lynch done via PM?
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there could still be a bloodycobbler
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On April 09 2013 04:52 Restraining Order wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 04:46 geript wrote:
I'm open to the possibility of a Town Vote Rigger, but scum vote rigger is far, far more likely IMO. Scum voterigger is unlikely as hell. VE got lynched on the basis of 3 votes. A couple dudes had 2 votes on them. That pretty strongly suggests mafia had no clue doublelynch was active. They could have put ~2 votes on literally ANYBODY, and nobody would blame them since voterigger doublelynch is silent. ADDITIONALLY, the double lynch was locked in pretty early, a mafia would have at least waited a little longer and saved his teammate maybe. btw, I checked OP real good, and EMPRAH doublelynch gives everybody 2 votes, so it's not silent. This one is guaranteed to come from da riggah.
the emperor gets a free extra lynch on day 1
that seems by far the most likely thing to have happened
+ Show Spoiler [speculation] +
it's also probably why the "day post" took so long after caller said he'd used his power. the hosts probably had to wait for the emperor to submit his choice for the extra second day1 lynch.
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haha well PALMar will sure give it to you
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Hey I said we should lunch VE too give meeeeee the town creeeeeeds
Lol
Night phase so borink
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Hahahaha
Ohhhh, mocsta. Just lol.
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gaaaaar why is no one posting
caller why do you want to kill ryan
is it just because you think he's the scummiest person who voted for ve?
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if i were a vig i would probably shoot oo
or maybe i am a vig and have shot him already! scum you will never know the truth
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On April 10 2013 07:53 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 07:49 Palmar wrote:On April 10 2013 07:32 Sn0_Man wrote:On April 10 2013 07:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I have an idea. sn0_man and ObvousOne. Shoot each other. At least sn0_man has basically claimed he has a KP role and one of them like HAS to be scum. I most certainly have not claimed anything of the sort. Plus I'm not scum (not so sure about ObviousOne but there are only 3 scum left and I have a lot of people who i think could be scum already). Nice try though. shut up scum ...?
palmar thinks you're scum
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palmar doesn't do reasons because people listen to him anyway
oatsmaster doesn't do reasons because GOOBLEGOBBLEGRABBLEFROBBLE
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but sinani never contributes
you dont have to tell us why he's bad you have to tell us why he is scum
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obviousone
still shelvocke
both for reasons expressed earlier in my filter as well as by others
maybe meapak, he's acting as i would expect a pretty demoralized scummer to act (ie, not playing or defending himself) and i would expect scum to be pretty demoralized after that d1
but basically i'm expecting so much stuff to happen at the end of this night phase that i haven't seen much reason to be super active until we know what's happening
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mocsta what do you think of obviousone?
for that matter what do you think of sharrant?
no need for a filter dive impressions are fine
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On April 10 2013 08:52 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 08:38 Restraining Order wrote:On April 10 2013 08:33 Sn0_Man wrote:
I still think sinani is scum. He's made like 1 useless post since I last explained why. If you want I can let the thread know hourly how little he has contributed and why I think he is scum but I don't see the value there.
Beyond that I'm more interested to see how night actions resolve. Once that information is available reads will progress. On April 10 2013 07:32 Sn0_Man wrote:On April 10 2013 07:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I have an idea. sn0_man and ObvousOne. Shoot each other. At least sn0_man has basically claimed he has a KP role and one of them like HAS to be scum. I most certainly have not claimed anything of the sort. Plus I'm not scum (not so sure about ObviousOne but there are only 3 scum left and I have a lot of people who i think could be scum already). Nice try though. "a lot of people" = sinani? I'm not asking for hourly sinani updates here. You seem to have "a lot" down as scum suspects, and all you do is ride on sinani and 'defend' yourself. I think Oats, Rayn, Palmar, Vivax, Geript, YOU, deconduo, and austinmcc could all also easily be scum. Thats my problem. The only person that I'm confident enough to push, in whom I see NO redeeming qualities, is sinani. Everybody else has shown at least flashes of towniness that make me willing to wait on them. I fail to see how trying to get 8 people lynched counts as contributing so I'm waiting for the situation to clear up with posts (and night action results).
i notice you didnt include shelvocke why not
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oh shit i forgot to share invention ideas
okay here's one i typed up super-quick-like
The Radioactive Front Walk
Uh-Oh! Looks like those goofy contractors were at it again, they re-used concrete from the old nuclear power plant when they rebuilt your front walk! Good thing you know the back way out of your house, but bad luck for anyone who calls on you!
On the night you use this item, everyone who visits you will get radiation sickness. They will all die at the end of the following night phase.
The key with this one is for the person who gets it to claim it, and explain how it works. The inventor gives it to someone super-townie looking, and then they either use it and kill any scum who visits them, or they wifom the scummers and don't use it, and then when scum comes to kill them the next night, the scummy fools all get radiation sickness!
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i'll put up one or two more from my townie invention ideas document sometime in the next few days but only one for now.
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lol still no daypost
On April 10 2013 09:51 austinmcc wrote:I actually really figured that either you or gonzaw would have made good on your claims to go after inventor. Gonna be so sad if nothing shows up with the daypost 
i was gonna but i'm like 7th, there's no way it makes it through
plus ryan said he was gonna take it
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On April 10 2013 10:25 yamato77 wrote:
If I die, kill Mocsta tomorrow.
If I don't, I will kill him tomorrow.
well at least it's after deadline...
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i live in est
it is 9:55 right now
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On April 10 2013 11:56 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 11:54 Sn0_Man wrote:On April 10 2013 11:52 geript wrote:
how is austin confirmed town? the only "confirmed town" right now is me. A) you aren't confirmed town. B) Keirathi just finished COP CHECKING HIM as town. The godfather is dead. There's still the possibility of framer (RO claimed Framer and that he wasn't going to use it...no way to know if he's lying). And Artanis flipped GF Assassin. Does that mean he got to pick 2 roles, or by picking assassin he got a GF bonus? Who knows. My check doesn't make austin confirmed town, but damn near it.
bc answered this question
he got it as a bonus
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austin could be, like, scum NKVD agent?
or a traitor
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On April 10 2013 12:11 yamato77 wrote:
Should we lynch sinani or Meapak?
Hmm.....
not meapak
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On April 10 2013 12:13 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 12:11 Sn0_Man wrote:On April 10 2013 12:11 yamato77 wrote:
Should we lynch sinani or Meapak?
Hmm..... Why not both? Its double lynch day. HOLY FUCK YES GG scum, you lose today.
dont lynch meapak
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On April 10 2013 12:26 Shelvocke wrote:![[image loading]](http://content.internetvideoarchive.com/content/photos/164/000692_40.jpg) I talk with my guns. ##Kill Meapak_Ziph
if this is real
fuck man
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this is fucking ridiculous
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So I guess no one DT checked sinani or obviousone?
i could get down with lynching either of them
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On April 11 2013 06:14 Restraining Order wrote:
Butbut, it might be relevant!
Anyways, contributions:
how2solve game - an easy setp-by-step guide
Mindlessly carpetbomb into the following people:
obviousone
Sinani206
strongandbig
sharrant
Mocsta
Shelvocke
Vivax
-> gg easy
nooooo im town dont carpet bomb meeeeeeee
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meh as long as you leave me alive for a couple of days to give out my Awesome Invention Ideas (TM)
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On April 11 2013 09:58 geript wrote:
SnB is only scum if BM is also scum.
What? Why does this make sense?
Anyway I agree with the way the claim is proceeding, vivax you should go ahead and claim.
Also someone should keep track of the claims we have bad so far, for example I think oats was earlier on the list but I'm not sure what he claimed.
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Also it doesn't really make sense for geript to be scum given how he sealed ve's fate but a lot of what he's saying does f make sense either, so not sure what to think there.
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Dandelion why isn't yammo on your carpet bomb list? I can't really argue with my being on it ATM, but given that I'm town and also pretty sure I'm one of the townier people on the list I'm interested in ringing out why you shove who you chose.
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In a direct sense yes but if geript hadn't outed him as NRA we wouldn't have know Nuuk to be obviacum.
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I dot think janitor covers the night post.
does janitor cover the night post?
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Geript what's this thing you have with snoman? Dudes got a green check on him you ca t just ignore it like that and keep being like "kill Jim lol"
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dont vote for meapak hes not scum
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On April 11 2013 18:14 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 05:34 strongandbig wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 04 2013 22:47 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 22:46 Restraining Order wrote:On April 04 2013 22:44 Oatsmaster wrote:On April 04 2013 22:41 Restraining Order wrote:On April 04 2013 22:39 Oatsmaster wrote:On April 04 2013 22:36 Restraining Order wrote:On April 04 2013 22:35 Caller wrote:
oim tellin ya gits just do wot i say. any mo discussin' of deez bad scummy planz iz gonna be a big' ol scum flag fo me. so if you don' wanna incur da wrath of khaller i sugest ya gitz find somethin' else to dizcus. in meantime, just folo mah straterjee, oite? You mean, as opposed to claiming, you want people to claim. After you said claiming is nonsense and doesn't work. New rule, whoever tries to get someone lynched of a joke is scum. RO is scum. Am I mafia independently of the first sentence, or did I already try to get someone lynched without myself noticing? Pointing out contradictions is pointing out that the dude is lying and therefore scum. So yeah. Also WHO ARE YOU If I wanted to point out a person is mafia, I would have pointed out a person is mafia. However, I did no such thing. pshhhh words. Intention is far more important than mere WORDS. Why did you phrase that 'question' to Caller in a way to appear like you are discrediting him? it's not the facts that matter, it's the meaning behind the facts. Anyways. Looking through snb filter and found this tribute to blazing hand. Amazingly, this is a direct scum claim. Snb is a meticulous guy. U can tell from his diatribe about the kenpachi rule in noir obsqt. This scum claim is a direct reference to a scum blazing hand in the game. U will have to read the obsqt to get the reference. But essentially its a manipulation tactic. Snb in all the town games I played with him is meticulous to detail and aggressive in reads. He most certainly does not shit the thread with throw away comments like the above. If that's not enough for. Its a weak chain defense in relation to caller being called out by ro.
hahahahahahaha this is hilarious
actually this is hilarious on multiple levels
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On April 11 2013 22:33 Sharrant wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 11:22 Keirathi wrote:
So Sharrant, who do you think is scum? My number one scum right now is StrongAndBig. The two biggest reasons I see him as scum are as follows: Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 12:11 strongandbig wrote:On April 10 2013 12:11 yamato77 wrote:
Should we lynch sinani or Meapak?
Hmm..... not meapak Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 12:14 strongandbig wrote:On April 10 2013 12:13 yamato77 wrote:On April 10 2013 12:11 Sn0_Man wrote:On April 10 2013 12:11 yamato77 wrote:
Should we lynch sinani or Meapak?
Hmm..... Why not both? Its double lynch day. HOLY FUCK YES GG scum, you lose today. dont lynch meapak Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 12:33 strongandbig wrote:On April 10 2013 12:26 Shelvocke wrote:I talk with my guns. ##Kill Meapak_Ziph if this is real fuck man One: Setting himself up to look good when MZ flips, while opposing it in the least useful way possible. If this were any closer to the end of the cycle I would take it as a scum claim. As is I think it's very scummy, but the second part is what does it for me. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 13:53 strongandbig wrote:On April 08 2013 11:21 Sharrant wrote:@StrongandBig Hi! I'll try and give you a sort of stream of consciousness on this one, and hopefully that will actually help me figure out where I stand on him. I've read through his filter a few times and I always notice things that send me in opposite directions on his alignment. + Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:25 ObviousOne wrote:Okay duders, raid night is over. Going for a quick re-read of the past half day after I post this since I've been tabbing out to catch what I could during down time. First impressions: I saw that Oats is/was under some suspicion (just going from memory, don't recall if it was talked out or not) but Oats is Oats; he's a bit all over the place but I don't see the same intent to shut things down that someone mentioned earlier. He was just as loud and all-over in RED. Null still. RO seems to want to be more helpful than I remember him being as scum in LX, not feeling what you guys that are suspicious of him are feeling there, either. Got my eye on Rayn at the moment. His style was spammy but usually constructive (at least in telling us what he was thinking) and I've got none of that after the first couple pages of his filter. Ten one-liners in a row or something, doesn't match up to his standard attacking pattern from RED. The attacks there were thought-out, here they mostly look like casual accusations perhaps fishing for reactions? The only points he has going for him is that he's absolutely confused about what is going on regarding the draft process: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 12:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Should we have our roles by now? Rayn, if you are serious about RO being scum then lay if out for me in one clean concise post, and if you are not, who are you most suspicious of right now? Or are you just drunk again?
Other stuff: Most of the chat was about planning how to set up the top spots to get roles protected, is that still a thing? I'm spot 2 somehow, and I was thinking about taking America because America, fuck yeah! Is that going to make me a Pariah or something? Girls just wanna have fun, you know? I'll use it as a second lynch like was suggested yesterday or I can just sit on it if you guys are paranoid about it. Going back for that re-read and making some coffee. See you in a bit when I'm finished with that. PS: Seriously guys, the spam, cut it out, I decided to avoid large games because of the sheer volume of posts so please be less liberal with one-liners, thank you! This post felt very airy, it certainly felt to me like a post that was primarily summation. There are some good questions in there, but there's no hard stances. The closest he comes to that is that he says he's got his eye on Rayn, but then never specifically says he was scummy. Points out he doesn't give fit his previous town meta, but then he gives him an out on it anyways saying that he might be fishing for reactions. I actually noticed something that really has me leaning towards scum on him now. He makes 2 posts specifically stating for people not to spam, and has several posts insulting BM for making small spammy posts with no content. I read this as townie when I first skimmed through his filter, but looking at it again There's something very wrong. + Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:25 ObviousOne wrote:.
PS: Seriously guys, the spam, cut it out, I decided to avoid large games because of the sheer volume of posts so please be less liberal with one-liners, thank you! On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote:
... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 12:16 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 12:13 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 12:11 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 12:01 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 11:51 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 11:43 Bill Murray wrote:
DECONDUO
WHAT ARE YOUR READS ON WHO ARE WHAT? Palmar is afk, but that's normal.FoS Deconduo On April 05 2013 01:29 Palmar wrote:
I always suck at PYP games because I find the role discussion so boring I skip it. PTP 1: 3 posts before Day 1 PTP 2: 8 posts before Day 1 PYP Redux: 7 posts before Day 1 PYP Boardwalk: 18 posts before Day 1 Unless you're saying he's less afk than normal, I don't know why you think I'm wrong. well i guess he doesnt play like me anymore You say that like it's a bad thing. Look at his posts: + Show Spoiler +On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 09:59 Restraining Order wrote:In fact, I'm just going to quote myself on this matter. On April 05 2013 11:30 Restraining Order wrote:
Pick assassin and try to kill me with please.
That way I don't actually die to your stupidity.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll stop reading your posts henceforth. Wouldn't be a problem if you'd actually think I'm mafia I'll indulge your soft town claim for a moment and simply ask you why your list contains 9 people. If you can justify all 9 in some way at least we'll know whether or not you're talking the breeze with these myriad suspicions. On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote:
EBWOP: Oops, looks like I miscounted, make that 10. On April 06 2013 10:08 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 10:06 Restraining Order wrote:On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote:
EBWOP: Oops, looks like I miscounted, make that 10. No, it's 9. I have no idea where VE got the Caller thing from, and it's sad you just take his word. If I've misread it please tell me how. It won't be the first time. I spent like 24 hours in Fruity misreading every little thing so just straighten me out instead of spitting in my face, thx. On April 06 2013 10:09 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 10:08 VisceraEyes wrote:
Actually I misread the quote-pyramid. He was saying he wanted to lynch Kier when I thought he was replying to Caller. My mistake. .... On April 06 2013 11:28 ObviousOne wrote:
WTF are all these random ass reads BM? Is this what you always do? On April 06 2013 11:38 ObviousOne wrote:RIGHT ABOUT WHAT PLEASE TYPE MORE JESUS FUCK On April 06 2013 12:16 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 12:13 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 12:11 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 12:01 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 11:51 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 11:43 Bill Murray wrote:
DECONDUO
WHAT ARE YOUR READS ON WHO ARE WHAT? Palmar is afk, but that's normal.FoS Deconduo On April 05 2013 01:29 Palmar wrote:
I always suck at PYP games because I find the role discussion so boring I skip it. PTP 1: 3 posts before Day 1 PTP 2: 8 posts before Day 1 PYP Redux: 7 posts before Day 1 PYP Boardwalk: 18 posts before Day 1 Unless you're saying he's less afk than normal, I don't know why you think I'm wrong. well i guess he doesnt play like me anymore You say that like it's a bad thing. On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote:
... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 13:29 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote:
... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. Okay I'm laughing my ass off at this but really, three dot points or something. Substance, please. Who do you want to lynch D1? On April 06 2013 13:52 ObviousOne wrote:... not sure what to make of this but way to leave yourself open to accusations of a scum slip. Wow that's really bad looking. Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:37 geript wrote:I figured out why I don't like the case on RestrainingOrder at all. In The Game, I got to watch both Bugs and Kita push absolute bullshit towards town's direct. It was well crafted bullshit, but bullshit none the less. VE's case is an exact example of this type of thing for a few reasons: 1. The townread/lynch stuff + Show Spoiler +On April 06 2013 09:42 VisceraEyes wrote:
So RO wants to lynch inside [Caller, Palmar, Decon, VE, Kierathi, Artanis, austin, OO, Vivax, sn0] before D1 starts. That's cool I guess, but some of those names sound familiar. Where have I seen those names before?
...
Oh that's right. In that OTHER post where he made a list and said "4/5 are townies", he wants to lynch 3/5 of them. Any little thing that we could catch where town fucked up, changed reads, etc. It's perfect to attack because it seems so simple and plausible. Town in general are not going to be filtering themselves constantly to see their positions, know where they stood on exact people, etc. Whereas as scum, we were quite often referencing ourselves to see what stances were plausible for us to take. I can't wholly ignore the possibility that RO may just be lazy scum, hell he lurked most of LX until his teammate shot him. However, it's stupid to think that this early on that scum would make a slip this big. It's far more likely to be bad/stupid town. This isn't particularly scummy. On April 06 2013 13:57 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:54 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 13:28 Mocsta wrote:@ArtanisXpI would like to continue discussion regarding your Geript case. Specifically, your qualms with Geripts wishy-washiness on whether I am town as follows: + Show Spoiler [Artanis on Geript] +On April 06 2013 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote:
I'm not saying that you haven't done anything not town Mocsta-ish. There's just a very specific heuristic that town Mocsta seems to follow that you haven't hit on yet for me. I'm leaning town on you but until you get that one aspect I have a hard time putting you there fully.
As for your posting, I really like it. Translates to: =============================== On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote:Hi, I think you're being townie, but you're not being you-townie, yet I still think you're townie but I'm not sure if you're townie. Oh and I think you're pretty townie. =============================== Why on earth would a townie post this?
WHY?Mocsta wasn't even close to being in danger, and the town motivation for calling someone town, then suspicious, then town eludes me. What I find curious about the above, is when we start discussing Geript and you comment the below: + Show Spoiler [Artanis WishyWashy] +On April 06 2013 09:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I had you as weak town before our exchange, and the post you made questioned that read, so I questioned you. At first I thought it made you null again, but rereading it I realized that your wishy-washy post wouldn't make sense if Geript is scum, because he created an easy way for you to defend him which you denied. Since I believe Geript to be scum that makes you fairly town. On April 06 2013 09:16 Mocsta wrote:
Lol.. and if he is town.. what then? On April 06 2013 09:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
[red]Then you'd be null again. I find this interchange ironic, as you flip flop regarding my alignment much to the same manner Geript does. Let me guess, the heuristic doesnt apply to your play?
Further, I shall ask the same question I asked Geript. On April 05 2013 15:18 Mocsta wrote:
Im not sure why I need to know you have me as town though? Nor why everyone else needs to know?
Im asking because, Im still trying to figure out if that affects my perception of you. town are more likely to flip flop than mafia On April 06 2013 13:29 ObviousOne wrote:On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote:
... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 13:26 Bill Murray wrote:
meta Okay I'm laughing my ass off at this but really, three dot points or something. Substance, please. Who do you want to lynch D1? AustinMCC at this point is betraying his blue meta as a lurker that I've seen He had a plan that would help the mafia, too, in regards to town picking from the mafia role list It wouldn't surprise me at all to see the mafia have taken from more "town" roles than "mafia" ones By that token, I don't expect there is a Godfather So do you know who is mafia or are you saying AustinMCC is a town read of yours? ALL of those posts were one after another. They're spread out over 4 hours, but it's 11 posts that are almost entirely one liners, some without even any text. Yet he was saying don't spam, make good quality posts. Why wasn't he doing that too? + Show Spoiler +On April 08 2013 08:24 ObviousOne wrote:
Also sorry to dine and dash but my cousin wants to hang out, back in a few hours if I manage to be wakeful when I get home.
Oh, gotta vote too. On April 08 2013 09:58 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 09:54 Palmar wrote:
I think it's mafia defending me, I look too scummy for townies to defend me.
why is there no machine gun role that can kill like 8 people on day 1, I'd have liked that.
Also there really is not enough killing this game. Bored Walk Empire Mafiyawn: Pull Your Pud =[ On April 08 2013 10:25 ObviousOne wrote:
Undertaker 21-0
GG no RE On April 08 2013 10:31 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 10:30 strongandbig wrote:On April 08 2013 09:46 Sharrant wrote:Well, I can't think of anyone who commented on my Keirathi case, but here's an update for no one. + Show Spoiler +He's off my scum list after these posts. They look much more like his town games. In his scum games he's more political in his posts. In his two scum games he's had disagreements but always contested things conservatively, compared to his town games like Red where he called bullshit twenty or so times on the first day. On April 07 2013 14:57 Keirathi wrote:EBWOP: Oh, what the fuck. Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote:
StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now.
Explain the bolded. Because it sounds like made up bullshit. On April 07 2013 15:28 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 15:09 geript wrote:
Honestly Keirathi, I don't feel great about Rayn, but I don't want to put too much stock in a meta read from one game especially when I don't know much of anything about Rayn. I could see someone going for a plan that puts them early in the draft order regardless of alignment.
As for S&B I'd like to hear his response, but I like your points about how he seems to find the draft/picking phase important but doesn't actually contribute anything to them at all. So go look at his filters from past games. Dismissing a meta read because you're too lazy to look at the meta yourself is just...wtfboggle. And my point wasn't that he was just pushing a plan to get himself high in the draft order. Yes, a townie could do that too. What I don't think a townie would do is specifically say that one plan was undeniably the best plan for town, the immediately flip flop on it and say that its a bad plan now, just because a new plan came up that benefits himself more. He's putting himself above the town as a whole; suddenly and for not much reason. (Which I also contend is completely different from what town rayn just did last game.) On April 08 2013 07:54 Keirathi wrote:@rayn: good, you're back First: ##UnvoteNow, let's talk a bit: Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
1) How much time i devote to the game depends on how much time i have available. I have not ahd much time this weekend. What are you defending here? WHY are you defensive? I didn't call you out for lurking/not contributing/whatever. Weird opening statement. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How i play also depends on the setup. It's very different when everyone is vanilla or when everyone has roles. You are making a meta case and later on you say you are not even sure about my meta. How do you think anyone is going to believe you if you are not sure yourself? You're right to an extent. I said that I hadn't read your scum meta. But everything about your play has been so glaringly different from the way you JUST played as town. Why? "Because the game is different" isn't an excuse for thinking and behaving completely differently. You didn't specifically call it dumb. I was...paraphrasing, a bit. And that post you just linked came before the post where I said you were calling geript's plan dumb, which is even weirder. Let's look at the progression, exactly: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 01:20 geript wrote:
New plan: Instead of having a set 'draft list' in that say people drafting from 1-4 need to choose from a list of ABCD roles. People drafting from 5-8 need to draft from a list of EFGH, etc. etc. This makes it very risky for Scum to draft both outside of their own list and inside of their own list. This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Combine Vivax' + Geript's ideas and let these guys pick [1][1], [2][1], [3][1], [4][1], [5][1] (everyone else picks [6->] [X]):
Then: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. geript's plan was exactly that: the people in the first 4 slots (aka pod, in this case) would be limited to a certain pod of picks. You said that was unarguably the best plan for town. Then changed your mind and are saying it's a bad plan. That's what I was getting at, here. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is no reason to push any plans further when people reacted to any plans like they did. 3/4 of the people said "fuck all the plans", "i'm gonna do whatever they want so fu" or "it takes all the fun out of the game". What's the point of discussing any plans further when you already know it's not gonna happen anyways? At least i fucking provided a plan that had four town reads in it for people to discuss but no.. Everyone just hopped right over that part.. Ugh, I hate this kind of excuse. "No one else was doing anything, so I refuse to do anything too!" YOU were the one saying that the top picks needed some kind of cooperation. Why didn't you try to get any? You just got your top pick, and buggered off. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
TLDR;
- Strange reads with no progression or reasoning - maybe you should have asked me about those reads then if you do not know where my head is at. Now you are just calling me scum because you think i have not reasoned my reads well enough yet you have had no intention to even find out why my reads are what they are. It's not my job to find out why you spew out bullshit reads with no explanation. The onus is on you to explain yourself. But again, that isn't even my point AT ALL. My entire point was that the way you are acquiring those reads is entirely inconsistent with how you acquired reads in Red Team. In Red Team, you saw something you didn't like, and either made a case right there, or you started poking and prodding at the person, questioning them and their motives. This game you just drop a name. Why so different? Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- uncooperative - I see myself being the most cooperative peron before we got our roles. there are a lot of people who are way more uncooperative. After the roles were out i have had basically no time to think about the game, but that's gonna change now. Again, missed the whole point. You said that the top picks needed to be cooperative with picking powerful roles/denying scum roles. But didn't try to cooperate at all with the top picks once the draft order came out. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
- excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks - rofl, why wouldn't you want to be #1 person picking? How is this alignment indicative at all? Actually, scum would more likely try to avoid being the #1 picker because that automatically gives you a lot of attention and less chances to fakeclaim later if needed. Also the top guys are gonna get killed anyways early on as they probably have the "best" roles in the game. If they do not die it brings more attention to them. I already addressed that. No, trying to get yourself in a top pick isn't scummy, in itself. Rapidly changing your mind to a plan that benefits you more, personally, than town, and then refusing to back up your opinions on cooperating with the other top picks is scummy, though. I'm looking forward to seeing what you contribute today, though. Hopefully you can change my mind. Regarding Artanis I'm going to do some more reading tonight, but he has some posts that I find quite townie. I think they show that he is trying to contribute, as well as a clear thought process in attempting to help the town determine what is best in the draft phase. On April 04 2013 17:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
So if I'm getting things right we plan on giving strong town reads effectively VT roles, correct? Though the idea of stopping strong scum roles is appealing, there are a myriad of strong roles in the game and I don't think sacrificing strong townreads that can pick early (and therefore are unlikely to be blocked by anyone) VT roles just to stop scum from picking certain roles is good.
1. They'll know exactly what X players before them picked so they can dodge roles that would otherwise make them VT.
2. Strong townreads end up with a public VT role rather than being able to help town beyond their scumhunting.
3. The townVT to scumVT balance will shift heavily in scum's favour
4. If there's scum before the last strong townread assigned to a scumrole, it could easily be sniped anyway.
I think it's best if everyone hides their picks since it'll give scum the least amount of information and prevent them from having safe picks. Gives critical input on a plan as opposed to negative input, and has his first iteration of a plan: Everyone pick as discretely as possible. On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. Again giving critical input and creating a new plan, or at the very least a new iteration in Yamato's plan. On April 04 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. No one's actually addressed this yet, especially Yamato which I find strange as it's an improvement upon his plan. I'd propose we use it for 2 roles at the most though. Past that, it just becomes too unreliable. I don't like the VT claiming idea. Players that ended up with a VT role are still important to town in one way: Taking hits that would otherwise land on blues. I don't think the info gained on roles is worth this downside. There might be exceptions in certain situations (such as a player high up in the list claiming VT when he tried to pick a scummy role), but as the norm I'd be against it. Brings up his idea again, stating he believes it's an improvement to the plan, and again is applying critical thinking about the picking strategies that others are proposing. I don't see this as "hiding in set up speculation" I see this as someone applying critical thought as to how the town can start the game off with the most advantageous, and start the mafia off with the least. On April 05 2013 08:21 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
The accountability is a good point actually, I hadn't thought about that yet. Hm. Still think it's better than doing nothing at all though since without any rules at all there's no accountability anyway.
Will sleep on it. He takes criticism on his plan well, says he'll take time to think about it. To me it reads really townie,especially because of a later post where he brings up that the route town was going had no accountability. His posts to me show the thought process of someone trying to min/max the drafting system, and follows a plausible planning process. As I said earlier, I'll take a further look into him, and read the cases more thoroughly, but to me he reads as at least decently townie. I'm going to post this now, I'll be reading and writing for a (hopefully) larger post, so if anyone else is going to be on for a bit, let's chat about someone, I'll even let you pick who. hi sharrant i don't think you are right in interpreting those posts as townie, those are things scum could do as well - both because setup discussion is always fertile ground for scum to grow the rare towncred-flower, and because it was (or at least, it seemed to me) clear that this town was too fractious for a real plan to come together. that said i like that you are taking this seriously and giving real thought to what you're saying it seems like you haven't been commenting much on stuff since the end of the setup phase but that may be because you play more like i did when i was a new player, with a lot of full sentences and capitalization and well-thought-out posts so how about lets talk about a player? I randomly chose obviousone. i wrote up a few sentences about his post about artanis, how about you do the same and then we can both post ours after i finish my next dota game? Commercial break. Come at me bro. On April 08 2013 10:46 ObviousOne wrote:
Mocsta. I love you dearly. Please make paragraphs.
Or
I'll
Do
This
Just
To
Explain
Why
It's
Annoying
And
Difficult
To
Read. On April 08 2013 10:52 ObviousOne wrote:
@Mocsta
<3 never change Look at all the spam there. And the kicker, On April 08 2013 10:28 ObviousOne wrote:On April 08 2013 10:24 Mocsta wrote:
Gonzaw
Unrelated question.
Do you think I spamming up the thread?
I am asking because my last couple posts have all been big text walls; and not sure if Im getting my message across succinctly at the moment.
Who cares at this point. Give the lurkers a shit load of posts to read when they get back. Let them cry. Let them complain. They will sheep anyway. Your question wouldn't even be relevant if everyone was participating. Be the Mocsta we know and love. Fuck the haters. Straight up saying to spam. Call it a joke, or whatever, but that kind of conflicting mindset isn't townie. ##vote: ObviousOneYou can't stay in line with your own thinking at all, I think that's because you're scum. thanks! here's mine OO's artanis case: - most of the traits he picks out are not mutually exclusive or alignment indicative - no attempt to explain the connection between his "meta research" and the conclusion at the end of his post - most of the things he highlights about artanis in tl mafia 51 are equally likely to be explained by the fact that it was a large game as the fact that he was scum - basically the only real points he makes are that artanis has not posted much and that artanis is missing the "edge of sarcasm" that he has as town - imo nebulousthings like the "edge of sarcasm" are equally likely explained by confirmation bias as by them being real, especially when they're just asserted without quotes so what does this mean about oo's alignment? - first, the actual fact that the case is qwrong doesn't mean anything aboput it. townies make wrong cases - second, however, the fact that oo went to all the trouble of highlighting trhe stuff he read from artanis's old games, but then didn't actually draw any conclusions from it but ended up making exactly the same points gonzaw did, makes me think he cares more about the appearance of effort than actually getting anything out of the effort itself. diong all that work to read all those filters and making a list fo traits and then ignoring that list when he makes his final analysis just really doesnt make much sense ot me from a townie pov. - that said, i got exactly the same feeling about oo in RED mafia just now and he flipped town. so i'm hesitant to put too much weight on this point wrt him specifically. basically what i learned from RED mafia about him is that it's entirely possible for him to put in a shitload of effort and not actually get anything useful out of it. - so conclusion: very weak but lean scum. He starts putting suspicion on OO here, and throws in a defense of Artanis. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 14:01 strongandbig wrote:
the people saying gonzaw was killed to help keep artanis alive are stupid, there's no way that would work.
wifomwifomwifom
more likely that he was killed because one of his "potential dayvig targets" is scum?
or just because scum figured out his role and decided to kill him while they could? Followed by another defense of Artanis Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 23:20 strongandbig wrote:
we should absolutely be lynching between artanis, shelvocke, and VE today.
IMO we should be lynching VE.
For a scum that high up to take NRA member instead of some active KP role, they would have to think of themselves as a likely check or other night action target. It doesn't make sense just to have a lurker take it and hope to get vigged instead of lynched.
VE is the only one of the list above geript who is a likely check or vig target but not a likely early lynch.
Plus, if you look at his play it's like he's trying to draw vig shots or dt checks.
He is most likely the scum NRA member.
Plus unlike artanis or shelvocke, if he is the NRA member then there's no hope for investigative roles to clear up the questions about him.
IMO we should lynch ve. He's suddenly in line with lynching Artanis here though. But he's still trying to push the lynch towards the most beneficial possible for mafia. If we had lynched Artanis, we could have lynched VE the day after and we would have known it would be less likely that there would be a kill. If we had lynched VE there would have been another mafia kill. In reality both were lynched, but before that happened getting the lynch onto VE was the best scum could really hope to achieve. Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 01:07 strongandbig wrote:
Yeah I agree with what I said before about VE.
I still think artanis is decently likely to be scum, as is shelvocke and to a lesser extent OO.
But I'm gonna go ahead and
##vote: VE Actually votes VE. Is still going after OO, a little bit. Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 02:53 strongandbig wrote:
hey sno-man a few pages back sharrant and i each shared our reads on obviousone. wanna join the "trying to be less lurky" party? poop us out a read on obviousone Still pushing OO a little. He's never really been going after him too hard, just enough to keep him on everyone's radar, but not enough to lead the lynch. Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 07:04 strongandbig wrote:
if i were a vig i would probably shoot oo
or maybe i am a vig and have shot him already! scum you will never know the truth This is the hardest he's gone after OO, and it actually looks like it's designed to WIFOM townies out of shooting him, which makes sense if they want to mislynch him. This is in line with what Caller was pushing as a mislynch day 2. Now there's a few ways this could all fall apart. First off there's the fact that it means mafia were throwing a fair bit of suspicion on each other at the beginning. Either that was their plan to begin with, or they got forced into it, or there's the possibility StrongAndBig isn't mafia but just ended up in the middle of Deconduo/VE/Artanis. There's also a lot of assumptions in this case. It assumes that A) Deconduo was not just a townie mad about being shot so that he used his janitor power, and that he was actually mafia. B) It relies on BM actually confirming that he is or is not the justice vig. I think it's very important we confirm this because if he's not then Caller was not necessarily mafia. C) Caller being mafia. If BM is the justice vig he for sure was, but until we know that for sure this is the weakest point of the case. If Caller was not mafia, I am not as certain that StrongAndBig is mafia. One last point I almost forgot: Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 04:30 strongandbig wrote:
gonzaw says vig shot me VIGS DONT SHOOT ME I WILL DO GOOD THINGS FOR TOWN!!!!!!!! This post reads to me as a joke made by someone who couldn't get it out of their head that they were mafia. That's really up for interpretation though. It's food time, so I'm going to post this. I'll make one more post on who the other person I think we should lynch today is before I go, and I'll try and be back for lynch time, but I'm unsure if that's possible.
youre an idiot
|
can we get a votecount plz
|
i'm a cop of unspecified flavor
i have a green check on meapak
herp derp idiots
now if we're going to do a mass claim, and we already are, let's do it right.
Sn0_man----------------- has not claimed yet, green check from austin
obviousone-------------- has not claimed yet
Raynpelikoneet-------- didn't claim, died with no flip
Sinani206---------------- has not claimed yet, green check from keirathi with invention
Visceraeyes------------ died, flipped scum NRA
Geript--------------------- claimed VT, tried to pick NRA
strongandbig----------- me! claimed unspecified DT with green check on Meapak
Caller----------------------- died with no flip, claimed Showtime!
restraining order-------- claimed framer
Meapak_ziphh--------- claimed AMERICA, nuked austin, green check from me
artanis[xp]---------------- died, flipped scum godfather assassin
sharrant------------------- has not claimed.
gonzaw------------------- died, flipped town JOAT
Austinmcc---------------- claimed unspecified cop with green check on snoman, green check from keirathi
Keirathi------------------- claimed unspecified cop with green check on austin; invention gave green check on sinani
Palmar------------------- died with no flip, didn't claim
Mocsta-------------------- claimed unspecified vig, claimed kill on deconduo
Shelvocke---------------- has not claimed, faked dayvig
Deconduo---------------- claimed janitor, died with no flip, kill claimed by mocsta
Vivax---------------------- claimed parity cop
Oatmaster-------------- claimed recruiting mason
billmurray--------------- claimed dreamflower
Yamato77--------------- claimed VT who tried to pick dreamflower
|
so Shelvocke and mocsta are up next for claiming
gogogo let's get as much of these claims done as we can in the next ten hours
as for who i want to lynch - right now i want to lynch OO and Sharrant
however i also want to lynch anyone who doesn't claim when it's their turn
|
On April 12 2013 01:11 Vivax wrote:S & B after gonzaw's case: Show nested quote +
gonzaws artanis case:
- accurately attacks his bad case on geript
- accurately attacks artanis for "out of place complaints about the town/thread", something that seems like a decent scumhunting heuristic but i hadn't really thought about before
- "other people are ignoring him" is a bad point, there hasn't been much reason to focus on him until now
- "fake aggression" really is more of a meta point, i would need to see examples of previous cases
i really don't like oatsmaster's post (18223749), it's pretty terribad. if artanis is scum i could see oats being scum too. or even if artanis isn't scum.
i like how gonzaw is actually trying to get people to pay attention to his big post#3000 case
Then other stuff in the same post: + Show Spoiler +
in here is my answer to the case on me
obviousone in his post 18223896 makes the correct distinction, what i meant when i said "picking phase strategy" was the actual role picking, all the number picking strategy was stupid. basically, the only reason the attacks on me make sense is because i said that thing about the picking phase strategy being important, and then wasn't around to actually talk about or make plans during the actual picking phase. Well, the reason i wasn't around is that i wasn't around. i have at least three other time-occuping activities (girlfriend-having, apartment-hunting, and homework-doing) that are more important to me than mafia and i was doing those things friday and saturday.
now, that angle of attack is legitimate. it's incorrect because just being afk for a few days doesn't make me mafia. but it's legitimate.
the people who are attacking me for being off my meta are just ridiculous and/or lazy. if you actually want to look into my town meta, you need to look further back than just one game. criticizing bad posts is something i quite enjoy, and if you think me doing it makes me scum then i lol. lurking on occasion is also something i do, and if you think that makes me scum then i also lol.
post 18223971 geript votes for ryan for what appears to be no reason at all, weird because i remember seeing some townie stuff from geript earlier in the game. but this post is, what, an association case between ryan and meapak, without actually saying why he things meapak is scum? and also the fact that ryan doesn't comment on gonzaws artanis case? hmmmmmm, what is geript's comment on that case?
oatsmaster wants to lynch vivax why?
artanis's response to the gonzaw case - unconvincing but not obviously wrong, not sure here.
vivax: "anyone else finding s & b scummy" lol
oh my draft numbers were [4][2]
visceraeyes 18227911 what a terrible post
deconduo had just made a case on me and was following it up with a vote
completely different than what vivax did
visceraeyes Y U NO PAY ATTENTION
gonzaw says vig shot me VIGS DONT SHOOT ME I WILL DO GOOD THINGS FOR TOWN!!!!!!!!
I say it looks bad, too, S & B uses gonzaw's case to draw conclusions about gonzaw, not about artanis it seems. Any opinions? What do you say, S & B? Why summarize gonzaw's case content to talk prevalently about other stuff afterwards? The post seems like a half-defense of Artanis but later you post this: Show nested quote +
at the moment, i am willing to lynch shelvok because his filter reads to me like he's being very "on track" but his justifications for those things are super insufficient.
i am also willing to lynch artanis because gonzaws case seems good and artanis's response doesn't convince me he's town
out of other people who have votes at the moment, i won't support killing palmar or keirathi or ryan.
i would think about killing VE because of how bad his vote on deconduo is but it would take some persuading for me to do that.
ohw the heck does my post seem like a defense of artanis? i thought some of gonzaw's points were good and some were bad. i took notes while i read the case and then i posted those in the thread. i guess if you call "critically evaluating a case" a "half defense" then yes I did half-defend artanis. I also half-attacked him. that's what you get when you are thinking critically and not just rolling with confirmation bias one way or another
and using someone's case to draw conclusions about them as well as the person they're making the case on is called "playing mafia"
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capitalist has alignment checks, as do detective and nkvd agent
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also joat i think
also copycat if someone copied gonzaw when he died, i guess?
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huh actually yeah the only way the claims are all true is if someone is gonna claim copycat
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my bad for the mistake might as well get it right
Sn0_man----------------- has not claimed yet, green check from austin
obviousone-------------- has not claimed yet
Raynpelikoneet-------- didn't claim, died with no flip
Sinani206---------------- has not claimed yet, green check from keirathi with invention
Visceraeyes------------ died, flipped scum NRA
Geript--------------------- claimed VT, tried to pick NRA
strongandbig----------- me! claimed unspecified DT with green check on Meapak
Caller----------------------- died with no flip, claimed Showtime!
restraining order-------- claimed framer
Meapak_ziphh--------- claimed AMERICA, nuked austin, green check from me
artanis[xp]---------------- died, flipped scum godfather assassin
sharrant------------------- has not claimed.
gonzaw------------------- died, flipped town JOAT
Austinmcc---------------- claimed unspecified cop with green check on snoman, green check from keirathi
Keirathi------------------- claimed unspecified cop with green check on austin; invention gave green check on sinani
Palmar------------------- died with no flip, didn't claim
Mocsta-------------------- claimed unspecified vig, claimed kill on deconduo
Shelvocke---------------- has not claimed, faked dayvig
Deconduo---------------- claimed janitor, died with no flip, kill claimed by mocsta
Vivax---------------------- claimed parity cop
Oatmaster-------------- claimed recruiting mason
billmurray--------------- claimed dreamflower
Yamato77--------------- claimed VT who tried to pick dreamflower
Shelvocke, Mocsta you guys are up for claiming
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so what order should we do the cop nameclaims in? Bottom up for the same reason as with the normal massclaim? Or should i claim first since i'm under suspicion?
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I'm Detective
mz came back "Town AMERICA"
it's too bad he nuked already otherwise i could have used my knowledge of his role to confirm myself or something
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Sn0_man----------------- has not claimed yet, green check from austin
obviousone-------------- has not claimed yet
Raynpelikoneet-------- didn't claim, died with no flip
Sinani206---------------- has not claimed yet, green check from keirathi with invention
Visceraeyes------------ died, flipped scum NRA
Geript--------------------- claimed VT, tried to pick NRA
strongandbig----------- me! claimed unspecified DT with green check on Meapak
Caller----------------------- died with no flip, claimed Showtime!
restraining order-------- claimed framer
Meapak_ziphh--------- claimed AMERICA, nuked austin, green check from me
artanis[xp]---------------- died, flipped scum godfather assassin
sharrant------------------- has not claimed.
gonzaw------------------- died, flipped town JOAT
Austinmcc---------------- claimed unspecified cop with green check on snoman, green check from keirathi
Keirathi------------------- claimed NKVD agent with green check on austin; invention gave green check on sinani
Palmar------------------- died with no flip, didn't claim
Mocsta-------------------- claimed unspecified vig, claimed kill on deconduo
Shelvocke---------------- claimed VT, tried to pick Showtime!, faked dayvig
Deconduo---------------- claimed janitor, died with no flip, kill claimed by mocsta
Vivax---------------------- claimed parity cop
Oatmaster-------------- claimed recruiting mason
billmurray--------------- claimed dreamflower
Yamato77--------------- claimed VT who tried to pick dreamflower
Mocsta, Sharrant you guys are next! Also Austin time to claim cop name! After them, it's Sinani's turn![/QUOTE]
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On April 12 2013 01:52 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 01:51 Keirathi wrote:
Personally I think you should shoot one of vivax/sharrant/OO, and we lynch the other two.
They are literally the only people left that I don't have solid reasons why they are town. You like vivax for scum? Also on my list...mocsta.
I'm pretty down with Keirathi's list of three, depending on the roleclaims.
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I really want to kill geript and yammo for just being annoying. Sadly I didn't take a KP role.
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we should not wait on bill murray to come back and claim, he'll just keep us all waiting because he is bill murray.
if he claims anything other than dreamflower at this point we just kill him.
but claims should proceed apace.
Sn0_man----------------- has not claimed yet, green check from austin
obviousone-------------- has not claimed yet
Raynpelikoneet-------- didn't claim, died with no flip
Sinani206---------------- has not claimed yet, green check from keirathi with invention
Visceraeyes------------ died, flipped scum NRA
Geript--------------------- claimed VT, tried to pick NRA
strongandbig----------- me! claimed detective with green check on Meapak
Caller----------------------- died with no flip, claimed Showtime!
restraining order-------- claimed framer
Meapak_ziphh--------- claimed AMERICA, nuked austin, green check from me
artanis[xp]---------------- died, flipped scum godfather assassin
sharrant------------------- claimed VT, tried to take detective.
gonzaw------------------- died, flipped town JOAT
Austinmcc---------------- claimed copycat-JOAT with green check on snoman, green check from keirathi
Keirathi------------------- claimed NKVD agent with green check on austin; invention gave green check on sinani
Palmar------------------- died with no flip, didn't claim
Mocsta-------------------- claimed one out of BC, capitalist, or normal vig, claimed kill on deconduo
Shelvocke---------------- claimed VT, tried to pick Showtime!, faked dayvig
Deconduo---------------- claimed janitor, died with no flip, kill claimed by mocsta
Vivax---------------------- claimed parity cop
Oatmaster-------------- claimed recruiting mason
billmurray--------------- claimed dreamflower
Yamato77--------------- claimed VT who tried to pick dreamflower
Sinani, ObviousOne, and Sno-man you guys are next! They're the last ones remaining!
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Shelvocke, can you explain why you decided to pick Showtime!
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On April 12 2013 05:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
also vivax has the weakest claim of all time.
nope shelvocke has the weakest claim of all time
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On April 12 2013 05:25 Sn0_Man wrote:I'd kinda like to hear Mocsta's full roleclaim not "I'm one of BC/Vig/Capitalist" (and I don't think he is BC because he claimed the KP before the roleclaim  ) However, with the amount of time left in teh day (6.5 hours I think) I'd be happy if sinani and OO just stepped up and claimed now. I'm not sure they are here though.
actually you're kind of right - claiming "i'm one of these roles" is pretty scummy since it gives him outs if people claim some of those roles later.
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oh i should vote in case i get too busy after dinner
i'm voting for OO for sure
gotta figure out who the other one should be tho
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austin do you know yet who you're gonna shoot?
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okay geript just voted sno without reasoning
this is stupid
austin you should shoot geript imo. for realz.
alternatively you should shoot shelvocke, his claim is not believable imo
out of the people on the top of the voting list i think oo should die and i think sharrant should die, vivax can at least get a check off.
##vote: OO and sharrant.
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hahahah swag
i hope OO is VT who tried to get your role
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Oh I have another awesome townie invention
THE NECROPHONE
The culmination of Thomas Edison's extensive researches into the occult, the Necropohone lets you skip all this "seance" nonsense and just straight up ask dear old dad where he hid the family jewels! When you use this, chose a dead player. You and that player wil be masoned for one cycle FROM BEYOND THE GRAVE! In addition, once during the cycle, you can put the NECROPHONE on speaker mode, letting that player post in the thread!
Use it wisely!
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Okay wait why are people trying to last minute switch to me? This is stupid
I only have 11% charge on my phone and an with my girlfriend so I will not be posting much in the next hour. If you guys decide to do a random last minute switch to me or shot on me then fine, but you'll be losing a town instead of killing someone like sharrant who made easily the most facile claim possible.
Make good choices guys
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Oh apparently no one has actually voted for me it's just sharrant in here trying to save his ass at the last minute. Gl with that.
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Do we believe BM that his character bonus makes him non-compulsive?
BM if you are town dreamflower, you should shoot me even though it means you will die.
It will confirm caller as scum, and confirm me as town and therefore my checks as legitimate.
Now for something else I thought of.
Is the godfather's "cover" an action he uses each night, choosing a new target, or is it a one-time action he uses at the start of the game, with the cover on-going from that point?
Does the godfather's "cover" continue to work after he dies?
If a "covered" player dies, would his flip reflect the fact that he had been covered?
If the godfather's cover works like I think it does, then having a godfather basically either makes some townie a permanent miller, or else it lets the scum team choose a second player to be investigation immune. Now, IMO this shouldn't continue after the godfather dies, but I didn't make this setup.
If the godfather's cover continues after he dies, then we should put meapak and sinani back in our suspect list. Especially so for meapak, since he's a more probable choice to get covered than sinani IMO.
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On April 12 2013 22:23 Vivax wrote:
How sure are we that he would have died anyway even if scum shot Caller first?
BC answered this question already. If dreamflower targets a townie he dies.
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On April 13 2013 00:37 geript wrote:
Lol Sn0 as green.
yeah he has a green check from austin, the dead confirmed townie with a DT check.
what is your problem? The people on that list who are in green are the ones who have green checks on them, duh
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so are we still trying to coordinate cop checks?
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we dont want a stack of kp, you serious?
get something more creative
his role checker thing is basically a list checker because we can see if people are lying
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Okay keir should I check yammo or geript
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On April 13 2013 03:13 Kurumi wrote:
Please send me your questions. This makes it easier for me to answer them <3
As for Cover, it is just a frame ability.
so it doesn't last after the GF dies?
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On April 13 2013 03:23 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2013 03:16 strongandbig wrote:On April 13 2013 03:13 Kurumi wrote:
Please send me your questions. This makes it easier for me to answer them <3
As for Cover, it is just a frame ability.
so it doesn't last after the GF dies? Why would it? Cover is just a fancy name for frame which includes role and alignment at will of the role holder.
okay cool thanks
i just thought it might be weird like that to make the GF different from a "strictly better" framer
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On April 13 2013 06:29 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2013 06:07 yamato77 wrote:On April 13 2013 05:53 geript wrote:
Why isn't anyone commenting on my points against Scumrathi? Because if Keir is scum, he's playing the scum game OF HIS LIFE. If that's the case then why not try to give me a better target or convince Sno to do a different invention? Why not give reasons for me being wrong?
because you are fucking retarded
you ignored everything anyone said all day yesterday
we no longer have any rational expectation that you will listen to us therefore it is no longer worthwhile to engage you
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more like next pyp dont bother
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Yammo is vanilla townie
If deconduo was scum janitor we could be looking for a traitor, otherwise I guess we are forced to conclude he really was a townie who used janitor night 1
Why do ppl want to lynch me? This is like the first time that most of my scum reads have actually been correct
Also lynching one of our investigative roles when we don't have to seems pretty dumb. Whether I'm town or scum, anyone I give a green check to is not scum
Also also BM not wanting to shoot me is not alignment indicative towards me, because if he shoots me and I'm not scum then BM gets auto lynched
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On April 14 2013 00:00 Restraining Order wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2013 23:51 strongandbig wrote:
Yammo is vanilla townie
If deconduo was scum janitor we could be looking for a traitor, otherwise I guess we are forced to conclude he really was a townie who used janitor night 1
Why do ppl want to lynch me? This is like the first time that most of my scum reads have actually been correct
Also lynching one of our investigative roles when we don't have to seems pretty dumb. Whether I'm town or scum, anyone I give a green check to is not scum
Also also BM not wanting to shoot me is not alignment indicative towards me, because if he shoots me and I'm not scum then BM gets auto lynched Why did you investigate M_Z on n1?
I didn't know how many town vigs would shoot. I investigated meapak cause he seemed scummy and disinterested, but not scummy enough given his veteran-ness for him to be vigged. Like, out of my scum suspicions, he was the one least likely to get vigged.
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On April 14 2013 00:22 Restraining Order wrote:Okay.
Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 07:04 strongandbig wrote:
if i were a vig i would probably shoot oo
or maybe i am a vig and have shot him already! scum you will never know the truth Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 08:44 strongandbig wrote:
obviousone
still shelvocke
both for reasons expressed earlier in my filter as well as by others
maybe meapak, he's acting as i would expect a pretty demoralized scummer to act (ie, not playing or defending himself) and i would expect scum to be pretty demoralized after that d1
but basically i'm expecting so much stuff to happen at the end of this night phase that i haven't seen much reason to be super active until we know what's happening Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 08:45 strongandbig wrote:
mocsta what do you think of obviousone?
for that matter what do you think of sharrant?
no need for a filter dive impressions are fine The only mention he made here of M_Z before investigating him Show nested quote +maybe meapak, he's acting as i would expect a pretty demoralized scummer to act (ie, not playing or defending himself) and i would expect scum to be pretty demoralized after that d1 That's a pretty weak line of suspicion. He said far more about OO, in a far 'stronger' way. Prime example: etc. This begs the question: Why didn't he investigate OO? Looks more like he didn't actually want OO lynched. His "push" on what is painted as his strongest scumread on the following day was decidedly weak too. "I'm voting OO, okay?" and things of that amount of impact, nothing actually substantial. Now, plenty of people pushed OO/Sharrant lynches for relatively weak reasons (me included), but you'd expect more from a guy that has said his strongest scumread is on him. How I see that situation - snb wants to have OO as top scum read in case OO flips. snb does not actually want to push town into lynching OO though - his role is very valuable KP. He just tries to look like it. In case snb flips instead, OO looks better for scum "pushing" him. A town copandbig in that situation would not have investigated M_Z over OO. A town cop in the position snb was in (credibility-wise) would have made sure of OO (who, as a high placing player on the draft list, is very likely to have a really strong role for his alignment) instead of some guy he's mildly suspicious of. Instead, he went for a weak read, giving him a 'safe' towncheck to throw out, while giving him what he really wanted out of it - information about M_Z's role. snb is a bad cop, not a good cop.
Look at when I first brought up OO when I was trying to get sharrant to post more. Was OO under any suspicion at that point? If he was I don't remember it. The reason I was hesitant was because I made a superficially similar case on OO in red team mafia and he was town. But if I'm his scum buddy there's absolutely no motivation or upside for me to focus more attention on him during day 1 when both VE and artanis are prime thread suspects begging to be lynched. It's just stupid play, and I thought if there was one thing we established in red team it's that I may be bad at scum hunting but I'm not stupid.
However, I was telling the truth night one - if I was a vig I would have shot him. However, that makes him a bad check - I thought the odds were decent that someone else would actually do it.
Also a general rule as a blue - never talk about who you're actually going to act on. It's just begging for a roleblock if you're right and it's letting scum know they don't have to worry about you if you're wrong. Like, I can't believe you're actually using "he didn't check the guy he was talking about that night" as a reason I'm scum.
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Also lynching one of our dts instead of checking them makes no sense in this situation. We have like three claimed detectives, and scum has only got one KP (assuming one of the kills last night was due to bill Murray). We can check everyone left in the game before scum can kill all of us. So if you really think I'm scum, there's absolutely no reason to lynch me instead of having a detective check me.
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On April 14 2013 01:19 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2013 22:16 Mocsta wrote:
I really hope Shelvocke isnt RebirthofLegend; but his constant fucking off and doing nothing to help town is reminding of ThePeaShooter majorly.
================
At least we can be sure scum only has 1 night KP.
================
Keirathi
Day2, I was pushing for a SnB lynch pretty hard.
Austin in particular gave me resistance, and no one else seemed to care about what I was saying. - IIRC that included you.
Night 2 you were pushing for SnB.
Can you walk me through what in particular changed your mind. I don't think I ever gave particular resistance. S&B was in one my "we should lynch from this list" posts early in the day. I backed off once he claimed DT, though, because I was just wrong about DT. For some reason, throughout the whole game, I thought DT was just an alignment check (you can kinda see that I did actually think that in my "Roles you should take" post...I had NKVD as slightly more powerful than DT, and had DT as a "town only" pick. NKVD is definitely not more powerful role+alignment check). Scum wouldn't take just an alignment check, so I just moved S&B back in my list. Then Sharrant brought up the fact that DT was role+alignment, and my opinion quickly changed again. That is an excellent role for scum to pick. Basically I don't have any reasons for why S&B is town, his role (especially in this situation, with an assassin teammate) makes perfect sense as scum, and BM refused to shoot him. Together, I think he's our last scum.
I actually told BC I picked "alignment cop" :/ (I didn't realize detective got roles either)
It's my fault the game was delayed during the picking phase:/
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Anyway keirathi do you disagree that scum likely only has one KP left and that we should have dts check me instead of lynching me? If you're worried that scum would kill the dt who checks me, we could have both you and vivax check me.
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+ Show Spoiler [dead people] +
Sn0_man -- Inventor 1,1
obviousone -- CPR doctor3**
Raynpelikoneet -- DEAD UNKNOWN 5, 1
Visceraeyes -- NRA Member 10, 10
Caller -- Showtime UNKNOWN 2**
Meapak_ziphh -- America 6,3
artanis[xp] -- Assassin 11, X
sharrant -- Vanilla (denied Detective) 11, X
gonzaw -- Jack 8, X
Austinmcc -- Copycat 8, X (green check from Keirathi NK)
Palmar -- suspected Emperor 8, X
billmurray -- (In)Justice Vigilante
Deconduo -- claimed Janitor UNKNOWN 8, X
Sinani206 -- claimed Vote Rigger, green check from Keirathi invention - can only be scum if keir is making up checks or if there are two GFs, which is unlikely, could be traitor until he uses one of his powers
Geript -- Vanilla (denied NRA Member) - can't be traitor, wouldn't know NRA had been taken above him, could be scum
strongandbig -- claimed detective - can't be traitor as DT is confirmed taken
restraining order -- claimed framer, no checks (as a claimed framer, must be considered immune to checks)
Keirathi -- claimed NKVD, green-checked austin & sinani, red-checked BM so probably town
Mocsta -- claimed Capitalist, green check from vivax - not traitor because of claimed shot on decon - only scum if vivax is traitor making up checks
Shelvocke -- checked as vanilla by mocsta, denied DT -- could be vanilla scum ; wouldn't know DT was taken, so denied claim would have had to be a big gamble if he's traitor but also possible
Vivax -- claimed parity cop, green-checked austin and mocsta
Oatmaster -- confirmed recruiter mason - could be scum, can't be traitor
Yamato77 -- claimed vanilla (denied Justice Vigilante) - VT check from snb - can't be scum unless i am, could be traitor
scum candidates in order of my estimated likelihood, assuming there's not two godfather bonuses
RO
Vivax
Geript? Oatsmaster? This doesn't really make sense tho
traitor candidates
Sinani
Yamato
RO?
Recommended actions
It's highly unlikely that sinani is the remaining scum, since keirathi would have to be making up checks. However, Sinani's play doesn't make me feel super townie about him. If sinani uses his role, we know he isn't traitor.
However, IMO a double lynch today is not good for town, since it just decreases the amount of time we have for our investigative roles to work on everyone.
Therefore, we should vote for Sinani, and he should use his vote rigging power to lynch RO. This way if he's lying about his role he dies, and if he's not lying then town can absolutely confirm his role. If he rigs the vote to anyone other than RO, he should be shot or insta-lynched the next phase, and he will no longer have his vote-rig to wriggle out of the lynch.
RO should be our real lynch for today. As a claimed framer, we can't trust checks on him, and the safest way to a town victory appears to be through mechanics. IMO he's a better lynch than any of the investigative roles at this time and better than anyone with a check on them, which leaves just him, Geript, and Oatsmaster. Out of those three I think RO is by far the most likely to be scum.
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##vote: sinani in line with the above plan. even if you disagree with the choice of RO as the real lynch, there's no good reason not to make sinani use the vote rigging power to prove his role.
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On April 14 2013 05:53 sinani206 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2013 05:50 sinani206 wrote:
##Vote: Sinani206
I will kill whoever town agrees on with the rig to prove I have it. Wait snb is dumb and probably scum... I'm not following his plan, I'll just rig my own vote to prove I have it. No need to fuck with the rest of the votes.
this works too
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On April 14 2013 04:49 Keirathi wrote:
RO can't frame himself.
But the better question is, who is he using his frames on? Just not using them? Why not at least throw one on his teammate BillMurray? I mean, no one said we were checking BM; I kinda just made that decision at the last minute because BM wasn't cooperating and said he was "fishing for reactions".
RO being scum is not impossible, but RO being scum AND framer seems quite unlikely.
oh i didnt realize that he couldnt frame himself.
well who do you think we should lynch today?
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On April 14 2013 14:50 Mocsta wrote:
Vivax
Who was the check on
And what was the outcome
You're an idiot
He's posted this
And I've like re-posted it
Why don't you even try to look
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On April 15 2013 00:22 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2013 06:57 strongandbig wrote:On April 14 2013 04:49 Keirathi wrote:
RO can't frame himself.
But the better question is, who is he using his frames on? Just not using them? Why not at least throw one on his teammate BillMurray? I mean, no one said we were checking BM; I kinda just made that decision at the last minute because BM wasn't cooperating and said he was "fishing for reactions".
RO being scum is not impossible, but RO being scum AND framer seems quite unlikely. oh i didnt realize that he couldnt frame himself. well who do you think we should lynch today? It's a toss up between you and Vivax, with you leading right now. So, who do YOU want to lynch today? You haven't said. Well, I guess you said that we should lynch dandel, but only because you think he is framer. What about his play? What about anyone else? Show nested quote +On April 14 2013 13:42 geript wrote:
I don't understand why Keirathi is getting a free pass here. He himself said multiple times IIRC that BM's role would reveal itself regardless and had no need for investigation. There was literally 0 reason to check him. Checking Micsta, Vivax, RO or S&B were his best options clearly. I really wish I had thought more and tossed it at Keirathi instead. Why is he not being looked at whatsoever? I'll explain. Yes, his role was self-confirming if he was town AND he was compulsive, or if he was town and not compulsive but agreed to shoot a specific target for us and "take one for the team". If he wasn't using his ability in any way we could track, then how was he self-confirming? He claimed that he wasn't compulsive anymore. I dunno about you, but I don't think that's entirely out of the realm of possibilities for a theme bonus. And if he's not compulsive, then him being alive doesn't mean anything. He would have just been this big question mark until someone checked him or we just lynched him anyways. Better to be sure, IMO. As for the bolded: you have no idea how much I wish you had to.
you asked me who i want to lynch. i'm not sure.
based on the outing of VE as nra member, i think geript is town. based on role choice I think oatsmaster is town. Sinani, mocsta, and yamato all have green checks. vivax, you and me are all DTs and i still believe that lynching a DT doesn't make sense when we could be checking each other and others. That leaves Shelvocke and RO. So I want to lynch one of them.
i think it's actually pretty likely shelvocke is a traitor, especially if it's actually Ace. My point about him not knowing that DT was already taken was apparently incorrect, and that was the only reason I wasn't considering him the most likely traitor.
So at the moment I think I most want to lynch Shelvocke.
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On April 15 2013 03:52 Vivax wrote:
We also know there are two scum left herp
Caller was town derp
artanis, VE, OO, and BM all flipped scum. There are either zero or one scum left, with the possibility of a traitor.
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On April 15 2013 03:53 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2013 00:22 Keirathi wrote:On April 14 2013 06:57 strongandbig wrote:On April 14 2013 04:49 Keirathi wrote:
RO can't frame himself.
But the better question is, who is he using his frames on? Just not using them? Why not at least throw one on his teammate BillMurray? I mean, no one said we were checking BM; I kinda just made that decision at the last minute because BM wasn't cooperating and said he was "fishing for reactions".
RO being scum is not impossible, but RO being scum AND framer seems quite unlikely. oh i didnt realize that he couldnt frame himself. well who do you think we should lynch today? It's a toss up between you and Vivax, with you leading right now. So, who do YOU want to lynch today? You haven't said. Well, I guess you said that we should lynch dandel, but only because you think he is framer. What about his play? What about anyone else? On April 14 2013 13:42 geript wrote:
I don't understand why Keirathi is getting a free pass here. He himself said multiple times IIRC that BM's role would reveal itself regardless and had no need for investigation. There was literally 0 reason to check him. Checking Micsta, Vivax, RO or S&B were his best options clearly. I really wish I had thought more and tossed it at Keirathi instead. Why is he not being looked at whatsoever? I'll explain. Yes, his role was self-confirming if he was town AND he was compulsive, or if he was town and not compulsive but agreed to shoot a specific target for us and "take one for the team". If he wasn't using his ability in any way we could track, then how was he self-confirming? He claimed that he wasn't compulsive anymore. I dunno about you, but I don't think that's entirely out of the realm of possibilities for a theme bonus. And if he's not compulsive, then him being alive doesn't mean anything. He would have just been this big question mark until someone checked him or we just lynched him anyways. Better to be sure, IMO. As for the bolded: you have no idea how much I wish you had to. you asked me who i want to lynch. i'm not sure. based on the outing of VE as nra member, i think geript is town. based on role choice I think oatsmaster is town. Sinani, mocsta, and yamato all have green checks. vivax, you and me are all DTs and i still believe that lynching a DT doesn't make sense when we could be checking each other and others. That leaves Shelvocke and RO. So I want to lynch one of them. i think it's actually pretty likely shelvocke is a traitor, especially if it's actually Ace. My point about him not knowing that DT was already taken was apparently incorrect, and that was the only reason I wasn't considering him the most likely traitor. So at the moment I think I most want to lynch Shelvocke.
But I still wouldn't object to killing RO either.
anyway ##unvote
##vote: shelvocke
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On April 15 2013 07:08 Restraining Order wrote:
The most important lynch today is snb.
Dunno if sinani is even here to make it a doublelynch, so you should consider moving your vote to him.
Actually, I just noticed we should probably not even double-lynch, since Oats is fully cruising for modkill.
Let's lynch snb only.
why not check me
this is pretty stupid
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On April 15 2013 04:02 Keirathi wrote:
Lynching for a traitor is dumb. We dont' know that there's a traitor or not.
Lynch for scum. If we kill 5, and the game is still going, THEN worry about it.
we also don't know if there are 4 or 5 scum left
imo it's just as likely that there's a traitor left as it is that there's a scum left
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like before we start lynching into our DTs we should at least make sure we've checked everyone
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On April 15 2013 09:05 Mocsta wrote:
I dont think oats is getting modkilled.
He made a post about 28hrs ago.
I cant believe we are in such a situation.
Geript is fixated on Keirathi
Oats is missing in action
Yam does nothing, but expects everyone to sheep him
SnB/Vivax are just butt fucking each other
Shevlocke my good I just want to lynch him for doing nothing ALL game.
==================
Just do SnB at this point in the game, he stil wants to lynch Shelvocke
and wants RO gone, when i already explained that VE/art trying to nail RO early game, indicates RO is confirmed town.
Ppl get confused witht he use of 'bus".. bus is intention to lynch... whereas ppl are actually thinking of 'distancing"
you dont understand the word "confirmed"
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alright, whatever. if you guys manage to somehow fuck this up i'ma be super pissed off.
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i thought deadline was by now... is it not for another 40 minutes?
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okay.
when i flip town what are you gonna do next?
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i already went into that. checks tonight should be on oatsmaster, RO, and me. (but you guys are being stupid).
I think you all are morons for lynching me; sure, if you guess correctly and i'm scum, then we can end the game a bit faster, but the safe way for town to play is to keep all the dts alive until we can check everyone. the fact that all you impulsive morons (geript, mocsta, vivax, etc) don't see this makes perfect sense to me, but the fact that keirathi doesn't see the sense in this worries me.
scum is staying in the game despite the fact that we have three DTs. That's what makes me think there may be a traitor left. Which leads me to a question for BC:
if the only anti-town player remaining is a traitor, do they inherit the scum factional KP?
I expect the answer to this question to be "no" but it should be asked anyway.
I don't think there can be another player who has a "godfather bonus" in addition to a normal role. That would just be beyond ridiculous; far too much meddling in the roles imo. Already the change in the dreamflower role strikes me as kind of ridiculous and not something I thought BC would do, but that's a matter for post game discussion.
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On April 15 2013 11:25 geript wrote:
Eg who are your top 3 scum reads in order and why
like, i'm not gonna go back and read the thread and make cases now. whoever the last scum is, they've clearly done a good job of blending in if i'm getting lynched. Unless the setup is even more twisted from what we were led to believe, the best way to win this game is using mechanics.
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you guys are all idiots. seriously.
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for one thing, sinani's rigging the vote anyway. he could esaily change things.
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yeah geript really makes the game un fun
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On April 15 2013 11:57 Mocsta wrote:
im playing sc2. gimme a fucking break snb
u done nothing all game, and now act all high n mighty
what ive done all game is not be a retard
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On April 15 2013 11:59 Restraining Order wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2013 11:58 strongandbig wrote:On April 15 2013 11:57 Mocsta wrote:
im playing sc2. gimme a fucking break snb
u done nothing all game, and now act all high n mighty what ive done all game is not be a retard no you have not. not at all.
no u
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you all are retards
SnB OUT
also why isnt my flip green
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On April 18 2013 12:52 gonzaw wrote:Dammit BC why did you have to babysit scum all over the role picking phase? Should have made the information about the "character bonus" thing public (like "Gangster"="More KP stuff for role X Y and Z", etc) I had no idea Gangster DIDNT have any synergy with Jack (considering it has 2 KP), or what synergy other roles had (like BM's for instance, which was the most important one)
yeah this was kind of ridiculous, scum had so much more information about the setup than town did... but it's a pyp game ->open setup :/
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EPT
