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Not really, no. Considering those OP plans don't work.
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The thing is denying mafia roles doesn't work too well anyways, and on top of that, if you try to coordinate it, it works even less.
The rolecop-rolevig combo alone has 2-3 possibilities on either end of the deal. (rolecop, capitalist, extractor & assassin, rolevig) Sure, you might be a hero and get exactly the one they try to pick, but it's a crapshoot, and mafia inherently has the pickorder advantage due to possible coordination.
Rather, think about it like this: certain roles are not desireable for mafia to pick. Those roles, you don't pick early in the draft order. This includes all investigative roles (apart from rolecop), dreamflower, things like that. Not picking those in, say, the upper half, will mean more roles for town overall. But having VTs is also very informative, so you really don't need to mind either way.
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On April 04 2013 21:00 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 19:58 Restraining Order wrote: But having VTs is also very informative, so you really don't need to mind either way. Im trying to read between the lines here: Are you advocating that, "Forced" VTs claim their intended role pick? That way, if we trust the source, we know that the role is in play? If so, I think this is a brilliant idea. Yes, that is what I am advocating.
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On April 04 2013 21:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 21:00 Mocsta wrote:On April 04 2013 19:58 Restraining Order wrote: But having VTs is also very informative, so you really don't need to mind either way. Im trying to read between the lines here: Are you advocating that, "Forced" VTs claim their intended role pick? That way, if we trust the source, we know that the role is in play? If so, I think this is a brilliant idea. Depending on circumstances. I don't think this is a good idea at all if you are meaning forced VT's should claim when D1 starts. They should if it's a 'dangerous' role.
Obviously, nobody cares if the last pick doesn't get Parity Cop..
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On April 04 2013 21:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 21:17 Caller wrote: what i mean by it tis simple: any vt's claim their intended role, some mafia claim another role that may or may not exist. or maybe they claim a role a higher mafia picked, or they share a pick with a vt. who knows. all that does is give mafia a list of roles in the game, and it does zog all for us. Absolutely correct. You have no way of telling who is telling the truth and you might end up lynching a lot of good town roles just to figure out who is lying. I have no idea how you got from "VTs should share their inherent information" to "we lynch a lot of good town roles if they do that!"
How about you walk me through that thought process.
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On April 04 2013 21:40 Palmar wrote: Morning, do I have to read the planning phase? No.
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On April 04 2013 22:30 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 22:27 Mocsta wrote:On April 04 2013 22:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: EBWOP: It's a possibility that they are town. If you are going to lynch them/cop them you are going to use roles/lynches that could be used otherwise just to figure out their alignment based only on "they could be scum".
If you are wrong about them being mafia, you give mafia information about town roles and where they are. What if mafia kills the town CPRdoctor on N1, and they have a copy cat? What if they swap the role?
People high on draft order tend to die early on either way because it's reasonable to assume they have the best roles in the game. By outing those roles you are giving mafia opportunities to narrow the possibilities where the good roles actually are. I think where all this comes into play is that you are treating everything literally. Perhaps when it comes to a "plan" that has not been fleshed out; that is the natural assumption to make. i.e. 1 hard rule that applies to all situations. To me, the whole concept isnt black/white. But thats the whole point of this discussion, to brainstorm / refine / implement. Prior, I was not a fan of yam/sharrant force the draft pick plan. I still am not. However, I do see merit if people choose to claim the role that made them VT. I am not trying to enforce this as mandatory by any means; I am hoping with enough information out there, people can make an informed decision for themselves. Also this gives scum info and you should never give scum info. Incorrect.
It gives both town and mafia info, which is advantageous to town, since mafia have their inherent informational advantage in the first place, and it'll grow comparatively smaller with it.
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On April 04 2013 22:35 Caller wrote: oim tellin ya gits just do wot i say. any mo discussin' of deez bad scummy planz iz gonna be a big' ol scum flag fo me. so if you don' wanna incur da wrath of khaller i sugest ya gitz find somethin' else to dizcus. in meantime, just folo mah straterjee, oite? You mean, as opposed to claiming, you want people to claim. After you said claiming is nonsense and doesn't work.
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On April 04 2013 22:39 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 22:36 Restraining Order wrote:On April 04 2013 22:35 Caller wrote: oim tellin ya gits just do wot i say. any mo discussin' of deez bad scummy planz iz gonna be a big' ol scum flag fo me. so if you don' wanna incur da wrath of khaller i sugest ya gitz find somethin' else to dizcus. in meantime, just folo mah straterjee, oite? You mean, as opposed to claiming, you want people to claim. After you said claiming is nonsense and doesn't work. New rule, whoever tries to get someone lynched of a joke is scum. RO is scum. Am I mafia independently of the first sentence, or did I already try to get someone lynched without myself noticing?
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On April 04 2013 22:44 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 22:41 Restraining Order wrote:On April 04 2013 22:39 Oatsmaster wrote:On April 04 2013 22:36 Restraining Order wrote:On April 04 2013 22:35 Caller wrote: oim tellin ya gits just do wot i say. any mo discussin' of deez bad scummy planz iz gonna be a big' ol scum flag fo me. so if you don' wanna incur da wrath of khaller i sugest ya gitz find somethin' else to dizcus. in meantime, just folo mah straterjee, oite? You mean, as opposed to claiming, you want people to claim. After you said claiming is nonsense and doesn't work. New rule, whoever tries to get someone lynched of a joke is scum. RO is scum. Am I mafia independently of the first sentence, or did I already try to get someone lynched without myself noticing? Pointing out contradictions is pointing out that the dude is lying and therefore scum. So yeah. Also WHO ARE YOU If I wanted to point out a person is mafia, I would have pointed out a person is mafia. However, I did no such thing.
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On April 04 2013 22:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:Forced VT claim: is an attempt to understand whether "key roles" are in the game. The action itself should not be used to establish individuals as confirmed town/scum. The problem with this is that town has no way of knowing who is lying and who is telling the truth. Scum know who is lying and who is telling the truth. The information we gain is only reliable for mafia at the start of the game. It gives mafia more opportunities to fakeclaim, bullshit, or tell the truth if it benefits them the most, and make plans that revolve around those things. And you have no way of figuring out which is it. If mafia is wise and plays it right there is no way town is going to win anything from this compared to mafia. RO: Thoughts on this? Nothing I have not already said.
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On April 04 2013 22:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 22:48 Restraining Order wrote:On April 04 2013 22:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 04 2013 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:Forced VT claim: is an attempt to understand whether "key roles" are in the game. The action itself should not be used to establish individuals as confirmed town/scum. The problem with this is that town has no way of knowing who is lying and who is telling the truth. Scum know who is lying and who is telling the truth. The information we gain is only reliable for mafia at the start of the game. It gives mafia more opportunities to fakeclaim, bullshit, or tell the truth if it benefits them the most, and make plans that revolve around those things. And you have no way of figuring out which is it. If mafia is wise and plays it right there is no way town is going to win anything from this compared to mafia. RO: Thoughts on this? Nothing I have not already said. You seem to be disagreeing with me here. What is wrong in what i said? The thought is not necessarily wrong, but I wouldn't (and don't) worry too much about it. You prefer to worry, that's fine too. Not much to add.
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On April 05 2013 00:42 Caller wrote: don't need to. it should be obvious. yamato isn't so much, but agreed on oats.
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Ok, you can keep townhunting them townreads if you want, I sent in my numbers already. They shouldn't be too obtrusive to whatever nonsense you'll come up with, so it's okay.
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On April 05 2013 03:33 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 03:28 Restraining Order wrote: Ok, you can keep townhunting them townreads if you want, I sent in my numbers already. They shouldn't be too obtrusive to whatever nonsense you'll come up with, so it's okay. This is like a scumclaim. elaborate why not wanting to discuss your plan is scummy please. You must have forgotten, but you also think I'm mafia.
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On April 05 2013 10:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 10:15 Mocsta wrote: @ Rayn Im not hard defending RO; I dont know where I stand with him yet. Im saying your rational is not alignment indicative. I thought it might also be beneficial to provide awareness of a scum filter for him. These are the guys who are saying "i don't want to take a stance, i just.... I SET MY NUMBERS ALALALALALALALA.. I WON'T LISTEN TO SHIT, AND I HAVE NOT HAVE TO CONTRIBUTE BECAUSE OF ALALALALALALALALLA! kill those guys. But, but, that is not what you are actually doing though.
On April 05 2013 04:09 Shelvocke wrote: The reason why this plan is awful goes beyond how well you can identify 5 town reads 16 hours in when setup is the only thing to talk about (which is simply pitifully if you arent aware). There is simply no way to force people to pick specific numbers. I wont be following it.
On April 05 2013 03:54 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:37 Vivax wrote: Sadly, RO's wasn't a scumclaim. He could just shut up or lie about agreeing with sending in the right numbers while he doesn't.
I would like Palmar and VE to comment on this stuff and tell us who they would like to get the first drafts. Not used to them being so disinterested. I don't care who gets first drafts and I don't intend to play along with any plan. Feeling a little selective with our heuristics, are we?
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6, 2 here.
I'll pick a role mafia wants, but not an important one, too far down for that. The joys of being average.
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On April 05 2013 11:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 11:08 Mocsta wrote:On April 05 2013 10:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 10:47 Mocsta wrote:On April 05 2013 10:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: and yeah, RO is scum i think. Can you walk me through this please. From what I saw, the only build up you had to claiming RO is scum is: On April 05 2013 03:28 Restraining Order wrote: Ok, you can keep townhunting them townreads if you want, I sent in my numbers already. They shouldn't be too obtrusive to whatever nonsense you'll come up with, so it's okay. Where I am having trouble following you is: I dont see how *only* scum would would or could make a statement like this. RO is failing to contribute to anything at all. See his filter. No more need to be said. Good kill on D1/N1. I still dont follow. What has there been to contribute? We have been talking about plans; just because someone disagrees with you, does not make them scum. I think this is clutching at straws, and is providing preferential treatment. RO duly pointed out others that also did not agree with the plan; yet you seem to be singling him out specifically. If you want traction: I am going to need more than "failing to contribute". Otherwise, this looks like a weak attempt to "scum hunt" - which can indeed be construed as scummy. In short, all I am asking for is: Why are ROs actions specifically scummy, and can not be a townie that shares a different mindset to that of yourself? To answer: read his filter.. is not an appropriate answer, because I already disagree with you.. you're meant to be trying to convince me...show me what you see RO is failing to contribute to the plans provided pre-picking phase by " lolololollllll, i sent my numbers, can't change, fu all,, i don't need to do shit.." Kill him. False, I never said I can't. I said I wouldn't.
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gonzaw Austinmcc Keirathi Palmar Mocsta These 5 players picked [8] as their first numbers. This means, at least 4 of those 5 are town.
On April 05 2013 11:13 Mocsta wrote:BM musta chose 11,11 too Not really, sharrant picked 11 as first number too, and is above the 8's. The host likely didn't receive his PM.
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On April 05 2013 11:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: Y U so scim? I still don't know. You haven't said.
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On April 05 2013 11:20 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 11:15 Restraining Order wrote: These 5 players picked [8] as their first numbers. This means, at least 4 of those 5 are town. I know Im town, even though my [8] was RNG. So; yam finds palmar suspicious I find austinmcc suspicious Who in that list is your "?certain?' scum read. Nobody yet. See how I said "at least 4 of 5". That does not preclude "5 of 5".
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On April 05 2013 11:25 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 11:15 Restraining Order wrote:gonzaw Austinmcc Keirathi Palmar Mocsta These 5 players picked [8] as their first numbers. This means, at least 4 of those 5 are town. Fucking boggle? You do realize that 3 of the 5 scum in PYP: Insane picked [9] for the first number right? What's with people using terrible heuristics for calling people town? It's a really good heuristic.
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On April 05 2013 11:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: thank god im allowed to pick a role that kills thme both. Pick assassin and try to kill me with [RED] please.
That way I don't actually die to your stupidity.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll stop reading your posts henceforth.
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On April 05 2013 22:18 Caller wrote: i think everybody should claim their numbers now. I will shoot anybody who fails to do so. Why don't you claim picking [6][1]?
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On April 05 2013 22:32 Restraining Order wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 22:18 Caller wrote: i think everybody should claim their numbers now. I will shoot anybody who fails to do so. Why don't you claim picking [6][1]? Wait, nvm, you picked the same first number as Snb, not me.
all wrong
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On April 05 2013 22:42 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 22:33 Restraining Order wrote:On April 05 2013 22:32 Restraining Order wrote:On April 05 2013 22:18 Caller wrote: i think everybody should claim their numbers now. I will shoot anybody who fails to do so. Why don't you claim picking [6][1]? Wait, nvm, you picked the same first number as Snb, not me. all wrong wait, how do you know all this? basic math and shit.
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This is roughly where it stands, I didn't dig through to get all the second numbers for the 8's and 11's, but those don't matter that much.
Sn0_man - 1, 1? could theoretically also be 2 or 3 I guess, but no reason to disbelieve it. obviousone - 234? Raynpelikoneet - 5, 1 Sinani206 - 7, 2 Visceraeyes - 10, 10 Geript - something huge, 18, 12? can't remember strongandbig - 234? same first as caller Caller - 234? same first as snb, larger second restraining order - 6, 2 Meapak_ziphh - 6, 3+ artanis[xp] - 11 sharrant - 11 gonzaw - 8 Austinmcc - 8 Keirathi - 8 Palmar - 8 Mocsta - 8 Shelvocke - 8 Deconduo - 8 Vivax - 8, 1 Oatmaster - 8, 1 billmurray - either 8 or didn't send Yamato77 - not sent, tried 11
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On April 05 2013 22:54 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 22:50 Restraining Order wrote: This is roughly where it stands, I didn't dig through to get all the second numbers for the 8's and 11's, but those don't matter that much.
Sn0_man - 1, 1? could theoretically also be 2 or 3 I guess, but no reason to disbelieve it. obviousone - 234? Raynpelikoneet - 5, 1 Sinani206 - 7, 2 Visceraeyes - 10, 10 Geript - something huge, 18, 12? can't remember strongandbig - 234? same first as caller Caller - 234? same first as snb, larger second restraining order - 6, 2 Meapak_ziphh - 6, 3+ artanis[xp] - 11 sharrant - 11 gonzaw - 8 Austinmcc - 8 Keirathi - 8 Palmar - 8 Mocsta - 8 Shelvocke - 8 Deconduo - 8 Vivax - 8, 1 Oatmaster - 8, 1 billmurray - either 8 or didn't send Yamato77 - not sent, tried 11 couldn't snb have picked 19 or 20? and meapak would have picked 11, no? Yeah. You could also both be [1, 1], sno, 2 or 3, obvious 3 or 4. etc etc.
Not enough claims to make the list 100% foolproof true.
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On April 05 2013 23:03 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 22:57 Restraining Order wrote:On April 05 2013 22:54 Caller wrote:On April 05 2013 22:50 Restraining Order wrote: This is roughly where it stands, I didn't dig through to get all the second numbers for the 8's and 11's, but those don't matter that much.
Sn0_man - 1, 1? could theoretically also be 2 or 3 I guess, but no reason to disbelieve it. obviousone - 234? Raynpelikoneet - 5, 1 Sinani206 - 7, 2 Visceraeyes - 10, 10 Geript - something huge, 18, 12? can't remember strongandbig - 234? same first as caller Caller - 234? same first as snb, larger second restraining order - 6, 2 Meapak_ziphh - 6, 3+ artanis[xp] - 11 sharrant - 11 gonzaw - 8 Austinmcc - 8 Keirathi - 8 Palmar - 8 Mocsta - 8 Shelvocke - 8 Deconduo - 8 Vivax - 8, 1 Oatmaster - 8, 1 billmurray - either 8 or didn't send Yamato77 - not sent, tried 11 couldn't snb have picked 19 or 20? and meapak would have picked 11, no? Yeah. You could also both be [1, 1], sno, 2 or 3, obvious 3 or 4. etc etc. Not enough claims to make the list 100% foolproof true. you seem awfully sure meapakk was 6 tho You seem awfully unwilling to say what you picked yourself.
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On April 05 2013 23:14 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 23:05 Restraining Order wrote:On April 05 2013 23:03 Caller wrote:On April 05 2013 22:57 Restraining Order wrote:On April 05 2013 22:54 Caller wrote:On April 05 2013 22:50 Restraining Order wrote: This is roughly where it stands, I didn't dig through to get all the second numbers for the 8's and 11's, but those don't matter that much.
Sn0_man - 1, 1? could theoretically also be 2 or 3 I guess, but no reason to disbelieve it. obviousone - 234? Raynpelikoneet - 5, 1 Sinani206 - 7, 2 Visceraeyes - 10, 10 Geript - something huge, 18, 12? can't remember strongandbig - 234? same first as caller Caller - 234? same first as snb, larger second restraining order - 6, 2 Meapak_ziphh - 6, 3+ artanis[xp] - 11 sharrant - 11 gonzaw - 8 Austinmcc - 8 Keirathi - 8 Palmar - 8 Mocsta - 8 Shelvocke - 8 Deconduo - 8 Vivax - 8, 1 Oatmaster - 8, 1 billmurray - either 8 or didn't send Yamato77 - not sent, tried 11 couldn't snb have picked 19 or 20? and meapak would have picked 11, no? Yeah. You could also both be [1, 1], sno, 2 or 3, obvious 3 or 4. etc etc. Not enough claims to make the list 100% foolproof true. you seem awfully sure meapakk was 6 tho You seem awfully unwilling to say what you picked yourself. because its more fun this way answer the question tho and other people better claim numbers before i start shooting. What is there to answer? I said it's not a 100% list and only a rough outline twice now, I don't think saying it a third time will fare any better, but I suppose I just did say it a third time, so there you go.
Have fun shooting yourself.
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On April 05 2013 23:17 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 23:15 Restraining Order wrote:On April 05 2013 23:14 Caller wrote:On April 05 2013 23:05 Restraining Order wrote:On April 05 2013 23:03 Caller wrote:On April 05 2013 22:57 Restraining Order wrote:On April 05 2013 22:54 Caller wrote:On April 05 2013 22:50 Restraining Order wrote: This is roughly where it stands, I didn't dig through to get all the second numbers for the 8's and 11's, but those don't matter that much.
Sn0_man - 1, 1? could theoretically also be 2 or 3 I guess, but no reason to disbelieve it. obviousone - 234? Raynpelikoneet - 5, 1 Sinani206 - 7, 2 Visceraeyes - 10, 10 Geript - something huge, 18, 12? can't remember strongandbig - 234? same first as caller Caller - 234? same first as snb, larger second restraining order - 6, 2 Meapak_ziphh - 6, 3+ artanis[xp] - 11 sharrant - 11 gonzaw - 8 Austinmcc - 8 Keirathi - 8 Palmar - 8 Mocsta - 8 Shelvocke - 8 Deconduo - 8 Vivax - 8, 1 Oatmaster - 8, 1 billmurray - either 8 or didn't send Yamato77 - not sent, tried 11 couldn't snb have picked 19 or 20? and meapak would have picked 11, no? Yeah. You could also both be [1, 1], sno, 2 or 3, obvious 3 or 4. etc etc. Not enough claims to make the list 100% foolproof true. you seem awfully sure meapakk was 6 tho You seem awfully unwilling to say what you picked yourself. because its more fun this way answer the question tho and other people better claim numbers before i start shooting. What is there to answer? I said it's not a 100% list and only a rough outline twice now, I don't think saying it a third time will fare any better, but I suppose I just did say it a third time, so there you go. Have fun shooting yourself. So why don't you repost that list with my suggested correction, no? ^_^ Because that would in no way be more likely to be accurate.
If you want to say you picked 6, say you picked 6.
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On April 05 2013 23:25 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 23:23 Restraining Order wrote:On April 05 2013 23:17 Caller wrote:On April 05 2013 23:15 Restraining Order wrote:On April 05 2013 23:14 Caller wrote:On April 05 2013 23:05 Restraining Order wrote:On April 05 2013 23:03 Caller wrote:On April 05 2013 22:57 Restraining Order wrote:On April 05 2013 22:54 Caller wrote:On April 05 2013 22:50 Restraining Order wrote: This is roughly where it stands, I didn't dig through to get all the second numbers for the 8's and 11's, but those don't matter that much.
Sn0_man - 1, 1? could theoretically also be 2 or 3 I guess, but no reason to disbelieve it. obviousone - 234? Raynpelikoneet - 5, 1 Sinani206 - 7, 2 Visceraeyes - 10, 10 Geript - something huge, 18, 12? can't remember strongandbig - 234? same first as caller Caller - 234? same first as snb, larger second restraining order - 6, 2 Meapak_ziphh - 6, 3+ artanis[xp] - 11 sharrant - 11 gonzaw - 8 Austinmcc - 8 Keirathi - 8 Palmar - 8 Mocsta - 8 Shelvocke - 8 Deconduo - 8 Vivax - 8, 1 Oatmaster - 8, 1 billmurray - either 8 or didn't send Yamato77 - not sent, tried 11 couldn't snb have picked 19 or 20? and meapak would have picked 11, no? Yeah. You could also both be [1, 1], sno, 2 or 3, obvious 3 or 4. etc etc. Not enough claims to make the list 100% foolproof true. you seem awfully sure meapakk was 6 tho You seem awfully unwilling to say what you picked yourself. because its more fun this way answer the question tho and other people better claim numbers before i start shooting. What is there to answer? I said it's not a 100% list and only a rough outline twice now, I don't think saying it a third time will fare any better, but I suppose I just did say it a third time, so there you go. Have fun shooting yourself. So why don't you repost that list with my suggested correction, no? ^_^ Because that would in no way be more likely to be accurate. If you want to say you picked 6, say you picked 6. why would it not be as accurate? you just said its not 100%. so my version is just as valid, no? just post my suggestion, please. I would like it to be there as I feel it is just as valid as your previous theory, assuming your assumptions are true. im also too lazy to do it myself. not gonna claim yet tho ^_^ How about no.
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On April 06 2013 03:22 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 03:03 Caller wrote:On April 06 2013 03:00 Keirathi wrote:On April 06 2013 02:57 Caller wrote: Someone asked me why I FOS Keirathi a while back. I'll tell you why. Look at his post history. It's all posts of "being helpful" and "discussing the format" and "lightly criticizing one of these bullshit plans." All typical red-as-fuck mafia scumbaggery. It was shit like that that made me shoot GMarshal Night 0 (whom was a mafia roleblocker that time). And don't forget that since nobody has a role yet, there's absolutely no reason for anybody to be acting like a blue, because there aren't any blues! So if they're fishy and scummy and CLEARLY NOT BLUE, what does this mean? I"ll say it. Keirathi is fucking scum.
Rofl, okay Caller. And how, exactly, is that different from what a townie would do? Are townies never helpful? Do townies not discuss the setup? Do townies not criticize bullshit plans? they do, but they also scumhunt. you haven't even tried to scumhunt. Townies especially don't just pontificate about the setup and try to "win arguments" like your post history shows. due to laziness i'm would rather not bother dissecting it on a case by case basis for the proles, but i will if i have to. But really, over half of the thread hasn't been scumhunting, so why me and not, say, Palmar? deconduo? VE? I can keep listing people, but this conversation is pointless. And I would lynch all of those people.
On April 06 2013 03:27 gonzaw wrote: You could say about Keirathi the same as many other players I think (Artanis, austin, ObviousOne some more perhaps) who are still "trying to help" yet not scumhunting in a meaningful way (if not to appear they contribute and stuff), if not just not scumhunting at all. And I would lynch all of those people.
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I'm not particularily interested in lynching geript.
I'm null on him, and he's not a good lynch in terms of policy either.
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On April 06 2013 08:58 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 08:57 Restraining Order wrote: I'm not particularily interested in lynching geript.
I'm null on him, and he's not a good lynch in terms of policy either. Alternative then pls? Or are you just planning to cock-block this game? The ones I noted in my last post before, plus Vivax and sno.
Those are people I am interested in lynching.
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On April 06 2013 09:42 VisceraEyes wrote:VisceraEyes Pre-Dawn Lynch Preference of WrathRestrainingOrder - RestrainingOrder first popped onto my radar in my first readthrough before commenting on Yamato's idea. This post. Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 19:58 Restraining Order wrote: The thing is denying mafia roles doesn't work too well anyways, and on top of that, if you try to coordinate it, it works even less.
The rolecop-rolevig combo alone has 2-3 possibilities on either end of the deal. (rolecop, capitalist, extractor & assassin, rolevig) Sure, you might be a hero and get exactly the one they try to pick, but it's a crapshoot, and mafia inherently has the pickorder advantage due to possible coordination.
Rather, think about it like this: certain roles are not desireable for mafia to pick. Those roles, you don't pick early in the draft order. This includes all investigative roles (apart from rolecop), dreamflower, things like that. Not picking those in, say, the upper half, will mean more roles for town overall. But having VTs is also very informative, so you really don't need to mind either way. Ultimately the logic behind this post is fairly sound. But upon further inspection, you'll find that all it really does is say "planning for the pick phase is futile, and doesn't matter". Why not just say that? Why go to the extra effort of explaining it in the throes of a huge planning session when it's clear it's just going to get ignored by people who are expending effort planning? It's a throw-away post that affects nothing and accomplishes nothing. He proceeds to have a rather meaningless back and forth with rayn, which ultimately ends up with rayn having a scumread on him. Most of it is "You said" "No I didn't". But what I found interesting during this exchange was this post. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:37 Restraining Order wrote:On April 05 2013 03:33 Oatsmaster wrote:On April 05 2013 03:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 03:28 Restraining Order wrote: Ok, you can keep townhunting them townreads if you want, I sent in my numbers already. They shouldn't be too obtrusive to whatever nonsense you'll come up with, so it's okay. This is like a scumclaim. elaborate why not wanting to discuss your plan is scummy please. You must have forgotten, but you also think I'm mafia. What is the town motivation for posting this? Like, assuming RO is town and he doesn't know what Oats' alignment is, what is the point of prodding Oats when he's soft-defending him like that? As scum it could serve to cast doubt on Oats if Oats is town, but what does it do if RO is town? I can't think of anything, and I found this post suspicious as hell as a result. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 22:50 Restraining Order wrote: This is roughly where it stands, I didn't dig through to get all the second numbers for the 8's and 11's, but those don't matter that much.
Sn0_man - 1, 1? could theoretically also be 2 or 3 I guess, but no reason to disbelieve it. obviousone - 234? Raynpelikoneet - 5, 1 Sinani206 - 7, 2 Visceraeyes - 10, 10 Geript - something huge, 18, 12? can't remember strongandbig - 234? same first as caller Caller - 234? same first as snb, larger second restraining order - 6, 2 Meapak_ziphh - 6, 3+ artanis[xp] - 11 sharrant - 11 gonzaw - 8 Austinmcc - 8 Keirathi - 8 Palmar - 8 Mocsta - 8 Shelvocke - 8 Deconduo - 8 Vivax - 8, 1 Oatmaster - 8, 1 billmurray - either 8 or didn't send Yamato77 - not sent, tried 11 lolList. Scum. But what about scumreads? Let's find out! Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 03:39 Restraining Order wrote:On April 06 2013 03:22 Keirathi wrote:On April 06 2013 03:03 Caller wrote:On April 06 2013 03:00 Keirathi wrote:On April 06 2013 02:57 Caller wrote: Someone asked me why I FOS Keirathi a while back. I'll tell you why. Look at his post history. It's all posts of "being helpful" and "discussing the format" and "lightly criticizing one of these bullshit plans." All typical red-as-fuck mafia scumbaggery. It was shit like that that made me shoot GMarshal Night 0 (whom was a mafia roleblocker that time). And don't forget that since nobody has a role yet, there's absolutely no reason for anybody to be acting like a blue, because there aren't any blues! So if they're fishy and scummy and CLEARLY NOT BLUE, what does this mean? I"ll say it. Keirathi is fucking scum.
Rofl, okay Caller. And how, exactly, is that different from what a townie would do? Are townies never helpful? Do townies not discuss the setup? Do townies not criticize bullshit plans? they do, but they also scumhunt. you haven't even tried to scumhunt. Townies especially don't just pontificate about the setup and try to "win arguments" like your post history shows. due to laziness i'm would rather not bother dissecting it on a case by case basis for the proles, but i will if i have to. But really, over half of the thread hasn't been scumhunting, so why me and not, say, Palmar? deconduo? VE? I can keep listing people, but this conversation is pointless. And I would lynch all of those people. On April 06 2013 03:27 gonzaw wrote: You could say about Keirathi the same as many other players I think (Artanis, austin, ObviousOne some more perhaps) who are still "trying to help" yet not scumhunting in a meaningful way (if not to appear they contribute and stuff), if not just not scumhunting at all. And I would lynch all of those people. Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 08:59 Restraining Order wrote:On April 06 2013 08:58 Mocsta wrote:On April 06 2013 08:57 Restraining Order wrote: I'm not particularily interested in lynching geript.
I'm null on him, and he's not a good lynch in terms of policy either. Alternative then pls? Or are you just planning to cock-block this game? The ones I noted in my last post before, plus Vivax and sno. Those are people I am interested in lynching. So RO wants to lynch inside [Caller, Palmar, Decon, VE, Kierathi, Artanis, austin, OO, Vivax, sn0] before D1 starts. That's cool I guess, but some of those names sound familiar. Where have I seen those names before? Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 11:15 Restraining Order wrote:gonzaw Austinmcc Keirathi Palmar Mocsta These 5 players picked [8] as their first numbers. This means, at least 4 of those 5 are town. On April 05 2013 11:13 Mocsta wrote:On April 05 2013 11:09 yamato77 wrote: I went 11,11
wtf how am I bottom BM musta chose 11,11 too Not really, sharrant picked 11 as first number too, and is above the 8's. The host likely didn't receive his PM. Oh that's right. In that OTHER post where he made a list and said "4/5 are townies", he wants to lynch 3/5 of them. RestrainingOrder is SCUM and should be the D1 lynch. lol
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In fact, I'm just going to quote myself on this matter.
On April 05 2013 11:30 Restraining Order wrote: Pick assassin and try to kill me with [RED] please.
That way I don't actually die to your stupidity.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll stop reading your posts henceforth. Wouldn't be a problem if you'd actually think I'm mafia
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On April 06 2013 10:02 Bill Murray wrote: VE is town No.
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On April 06 2013 10:03 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 09:59 Restraining Order wrote:In fact, I'm just going to quote myself on this matter. On April 05 2013 11:30 Restraining Order wrote: Pick assassin and try to kill me with [RED] please.
That way I don't actually die to your stupidity.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll stop reading your posts henceforth. Wouldn't be a problem if you'd actually think I'm mafia Except...rayn picks before me doesn't he? I'd just be a lowly peon VT then, with no scum-murdering gun. Convenient excuses.
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On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote: EBWOP: Oops, looks like I miscounted, make that 10. No, it's 9.
I have no idea where VE got the Caller thing from, and it's sad you just take his word.
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On April 06 2013 10:07 VisceraEyes wrote: There's hardly anything convenient about telling you and your suggestion for my role pick to get bent my friend. You can accuse me of convenience if I fail to push your lynch tomorrow...good luck with that ever happening. No I suspect that is exactly what you are planning to do.
And you don't want to do the assassin thing cause then you'd have to find somebody else to mislynch, and that would be too much effort.
That's the thing, you don't want to kill me. You want to lynch me. Why waste your precious mafia KP, when you can waste town's lynch instead? Thread sentiment suggests you'd find enough people.
A lazy-mafia plan, but not exactly a bad one, I guess.
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On April 06 2013 10:09 austinmcc wrote: RO, the proper response to that is not lol. At the very least, I'd be interested in hearing why you want to lynch a number of people who you also seem to think are town based on picks. More and more people turned out to have picked 8, and more and more of them turned out to look mafia-ish. Suggesting that it's very possible mafia deliberatly picked people into 8. So i decided to scrap that idea and just not think about it anymore.
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On April 06 2013 10:18 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 10:15 Restraining Order wrote:On April 06 2013 10:09 austinmcc wrote: RO, the proper response to that is not lol. At the very least, I'd be interested in hearing why you want to lynch a number of people who you also seem to think are town based on picks. More and more people turned out to have picked 8, and more and more of them turned out to look mafia-ish. Suggesting that it's very possible mafia deliberatly picked people into 8. So i decided to scrap that idea and just not think about it anymore. Can you give me a reason why multiple mafioso would all pick the same starting number beyond mindfuckery? Why go beyond mindfuckery?
Mindfuckery is kind of what mafia do...
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On April 06 2013 10:24 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 10:19 Restraining Order wrote:On April 06 2013 10:18 austinmcc wrote:On April 06 2013 10:15 Restraining Order wrote:On April 06 2013 10:09 austinmcc wrote: RO, the proper response to that is not lol. At the very least, I'd be interested in hearing why you want to lynch a number of people who you also seem to think are town based on picks. More and more people turned out to have picked 8, and more and more of them turned out to look mafia-ish. Suggesting that it's very possible mafia deliberatly picked people into 8. So i decided to scrap that idea and just not think about it anymore. Can you give me a reason why multiple mafioso would all pick the same starting number beyond mindfuckery? Why go beyond mindfuckery? Mindfuckery is kind of what mafia do... Because "mindfuckery" is not the genesis of most mafia strategies. You seem to be suggesting that more than half the mafia team would pick [8] as a starting number. 2 seems low for what you're suggesting, or to be tossing out your thought that most of those players are town. If you're telling me a bunch of mafia all picked the same starting number, and all picked EIGHT, rather than [1]-[7] and being further up the multiple first pick list, then the ONLY reason I can come up with is mindfuckery, because otherwise it doesn't make any sense. And if it was mafia mindfuckery, they'd have brought it up. It doesn't do you much good to all pick [8] and then not go "HAI GAIZ BUNCHA EIGHTS, CAN'T BE MORE THAN ONE MAFIA IN THEM EIGHTS, NOPE NOPE NOPE." Now you're layering on the mindfuckery, and it's far more unlikely that such a play is happening than a bunch of people just picking [8]. So I don't think you can say it's mindfuckery. If it were, it's multiple levels deep, and that's not the right assumption. If you're town, you've tossed out the wrong assumption. The early picks are a place of spotlight. It absolutely makes sense to avoid it. 2-3 people picking 8 could be done under the assumption that few townies would also do so, making it likely for ~half the mafia-team to land in the middle of draft picks - high enough to get decent roles, low enough to avoid spotlight.
It is kind of concerning you try to dismiss it so much. Must be because you also picked 8.
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On April 06 2013 11:35 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 09:47 Restraining Order wrote:On April 06 2013 09:42 VisceraEyes wrote: VisceraEyes Pre-Dawn Lynch Preference of Wrath
lol No better response than this? Pretty standard scum tactic to try and belittle a case against them rather than actually make a defense against. Every defense is trying to 'belittle' a case... But why do you feel the case warrants a response? I find it quite glaringly obvious that the case is terrible, and nothing it notes explains in any way why I should be scum. I want you to explain how and why you feel differently.
On April 06 2013 11:35 deconduo wrote: Hi. I have been drinking. I may have completely different opinions in the morning. But for now: Pretty standard scum tactic to try and distance themselves from the responsibility of their own posts.
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On April 06 2013 13:37 geript wrote:I figured out why I don't like the case on RestrainingOrder at all. In The Game, I got to watch both Bugs and Kita push absolute bullshit towards town's direct. It was well crafted bullshit, but bullshit none the less. VE's case is an exact example of this type of thing for a few reasons: 1. The townread/lynch stuff + Show Spoiler +On April 06 2013 09:42 VisceraEyes wrote: So RO wants to lynch inside [Caller, Palmar, Decon, VE, Kierathi, Artanis, austin, OO, Vivax, sn0] before D1 starts. That's cool I guess, but some of those names sound familiar. Where have I seen those names before? ... Oh that's right. In that OTHER post where he made a list and said "4/5 are townies", he wants to lynch 3/5 of them. This is the exact type of thing that we as scum would jump on. Any little thing that we could catch where town fucked up, changed reads, etc. It's perfect to attack because it seems so simple and plausible. Town in general are not going to be filtering themselves constantly to see their positions, know where they stood on exact people, etc. Whereas as scum, we were quite often referencing ourselves to see what stances were plausible for us to take. I can't wholly ignore the possibility that RO may just be lazy scum, hell he lurked most of LX until his teammate shot him. However, it's stupid to think that this early on that scum would make a slip this big. It's far more likely to be bad/stupid town. This isn't particularly scummy. 2. Posting a list of who picked what is non-alignment indicative. While one could argue that it's an easy way to appear to be contributing while doing nothing, it's ridiculous to say that he's scum because of it. 3. RO is a great opportunity for a mislynch. If you read the thread up to this point, VE isn't the first and likely won't be the last to suspect RO. IIRC Rayn, Gonzaw and someone else already expressed thoughts that they were suspicious of RO. He hasn't shown a great deal of activity. His posts haven't established him either way. This is an easy lynch to push just like the Greymist lynch was an easy one to push. 4. More on this later. 5. Look at this post: + Show Spoiler +On April 06 2013 00:56 VisceraEyes wrote: I just woke up and I have a fucking crazy idea.
What if everyone who picks KP roles promises not to use them? I was looking at the role list and it seems that scum KP is fixed at 1? So it seems like scum will be focusing on trying to increase their KP (in a game this size).
What if we all just don't use KP roles and lynch the fucking piss out of anyone who does? I mean obviously scum aren't going to claim if/when they do, but if we can get townies into the KP roles this would be a really good way to try and limit mafia KP. Does this post actually tell you anything? No. A few people had even espoused this point. The important thing to look at in this post is how many question marks there are. In my experience, VE is far more decisive. This looks like he's trying to blandly +1 but do so in such a minor way to both allow KP roles to use it (and lynch them for it) as well not dissuade anyone from actually firing. 6. + Show Spoiler +On April 06 2013 11:03 VisceraEyes wrote: Frankly rather than just be hard-defended Bill, I'd like to hear rayn's reasoning for thinking I'm scum. You know...so I can maybe get a read on rayn? Like, I appreciate the vote of confidence and everything, but I get the heebiejeebies when people hard defend me like they're already CERTAIN I'm town. :/
How ARE you certain I'm town by the way? This is an exceptionally soft push towards BM. Blazinghand pulled the exact same bullshit on "knowing" GoodKarma was town based on "meta" in The Game. Pulling that type of shit is suspicious at least. Artanis has been calling me out for similar things regarding Mocsta. VE decides to apply no pressure to BM at all and instead wants to pressure Rayn for thinking that VE's scum. What did VE do to SloOsh and Mocsta in Nomination Mafia? Flip their cases on him against them in order to either win them to his side and get them lynched. Same shit, new game. VE is SCUM This post is essentially correct and I agree with it.
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On April 07 2013 01:21 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:28 Mocsta wrote:What I find curious about the above, is when we start discussing Geript and you comment the below: On April 06 2013 09:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I had you as weak town before our exchange, and the post you made questioned that read, so I questioned you. At first I thought it made you null again, but rereading it I realized that your wishy-washy post wouldn't make sense if Geript is scum, because he created an easy way for you to defend him which you denied. Since I believe Geript to be scum that makes you fairly town. On April 06 2013 09:16 Mocsta wrote: Lol.. and if he is town.. what then? On April 06 2013 09:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Then you'd be null again. I find this interchange ironic, as you flip flop regarding my alignment much to the same manner Geript does. This part of mocsta's case/post on artanis is straight up wrong, no? Artanis identifies what his read was at multiple points, and WHY it changed. He does so vaguely, "the post you made," "your wishy-washy post," etc. but he still presents a read and how/why it changes over time. I don't see how "I think you're town, but you'd be null if this happened" is wishy-washy. What are you trying to achieve with this post?
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On April 07 2013 04:16 VisceraEyes wrote: You guys are fuckign retarded I posted a case on RO that no one wants to coment on yet I'm the one doing nothing. Get real. It's funny, because the people that comment on your case on me, and identify it as the BS it is, get completely ignored by you in return.
But it's a convenient excuse to act all mad, right?
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On April 07 2013 06:58 Vivax wrote: Took a look at VE's filter cause he seems to be under suspicion. Liked his case, sheeping it.
##Vote: Restraining Order Interesting.
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On April 07 2013 08:49 Vivax wrote: Why would RO claim that he wants to lynch people he judged as town previously based on something he called a "really good heuristic" before? Already explained..
On April 07 2013 08:49 Vivax wrote: No, it's not the only thing. Already said it goes against what RO himself said about the heuristic he himself brought up and defended. RO's whole defense against VE's case was "lol", and Palmar still didn't explain what makes VE scum aside from activity (and I would like to see how he defines that one). Oh so you found a second thing. gz. Well, I feel like geript's reaction to VE's case is very sufficient. You may take the things he wrote as equal to my opinion on it. Apart from the couple meta parallels to the game, which I don't know about since I didn't read that game. But the rest.
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Not at all, Mr. Ziphh.
A couple people already know who 'I am', one of them one that should really know better.
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On April 07 2013 09:20 Vivax wrote: Explain to me what happened to your heuristic then, even after you said it's really good despite keirathi pointing out that in one game it went otherwise than expected.
What made you change your mind about not considering the heuristic as useful, and why do you throw out "would-lynch-lists" without ever making a case?
I do know who you are, but I respect smurfs who want to keep their identity secret. And I also know your meta differs from your last two scum games, but I also know that you know what I know about your scummeta. So I'll go with what I see in the thread instead of assuming you're town cause you're more active and less trolly than in those games. As I already said, I already explained it. Again..
It's quite concerning you don't even read my filter, even though you apparantly think I'm mafia.
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On April 07 2013 09:35 Vivax wrote: Well whatever, I feel like I'm getting into nitpicky stuff. Can you give me a quick opinion on Shelvocke instead? Will see how you perform over time instead. Feel free to answer if you want to, it would help me get a better read on you though. I don't have one, really.
+ Show Spoiler +I don't have any hope at all for the quality of your read on me, so that does not sound very enticing, just so you know.
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Eh, snb looks like the best lynch atm.
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In terms of scaring-me-about-getting-shot, I'll give your threat a 1 out of 10
I'll indulge though. Since you seem to ask for a gun-at-the-head read. If I had to, I'd shoot Sno right now. Not BM. But, I would not shoot now.
These things work better if it's not blatantly obvious you're just fishing for reactions/pressuring people into doing 'something', FYI.
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I don't have a defensive role and can be shot/lynched at any time. Just so you know.
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On April 08 2013 07:01 austinmcc wrote: Gonzaw. I would like you to actually read Shelvocke closer. Read him critically. Do not assume that he was pressured at all early. Do not assume that he was ever discussed (Or, if you do, go find me the posts where he was pressured/discussed earlier).
When I asked you before, you claimed to be null. There were things that originally made you suspicious, according to you, and "some stuff others say makes sense about him," (which btw, was meapak/me saying he was scum). Based on that, you shouldn't just be null. He is a legitimate topic of discussion, he does not have a filter, and he is likely a smurf (I generally assume all new people from odd countries = smurves).
That was NOT much of a response from you, tbh. And he's not getting any of the traction you seem to value. Drop your assumptions about how the thread has interacted with him or find those interactions, and then critically read his filter, his vote, and then give me more of your thoughts that "he's null except here are two things that were kind of scummy but apparently don't make me scum on him." I still don't really understand how people can have a strong read on Shelvocke in either way.
Like, everything he's said, and everything people said about him, just looks completely null to me. Is that the crux of the suspicion on him? Because I can see the concern if you look at it from that angle, but it's not a strong indicator in itself either, which is kind of ironic.
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On April 08 2013 08:00 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 07:37 gonzaw wrote: Question: How do you guys feel about both Shevlocke and Artanis being scum? Do you think this is possible (even considering Artanis' vote of Shevy up there)? If so, what do you think the correct course of action would be today?
Also, Sharrant get your ass in here, take your vote off Keirathi and do something. Yamato, tell us why you parked your vote on Palmar and did shit all D1. Yes, I know you are "suspicious" of Palmar from that case you wrote, but you've ignored everything about Artanis, Shevlocke, and everything else. This is not helpful and is NOT how you played in early draft phase. Step up I advise those that have votes on "irrelevant" people with just 1-2 votes take a step back, analyze them and Artanis/Shevlocke/etc again, and then tell us if you will keep parking your vote on that irrelevant guy, try to actually convince us to lynch him, or take a stance on Arty/Shevvy and put your vote on an actual lynch.
RO, do you still think S&B is scum? You parked your vote on him and I don't remember you commenting on him at all afterwards. You haven't commented on Artanis either.
Like half the game is just apathetic towards everything. I wish I could just shoot all of you :/ Yes, I'm currently waiting on the 'good things' he claims he'll do for town. As is now, I still think he's scum and the couple posts he did inbetween don't really make me reconsider. I haven't commented on Artanis because I have no real strong feelings about him. He has looked more useful and 'townie' in his recent town games, but I'm not seeing much that screams scum, so I'm kinda 'meh' on him. See how useless this read is? That's why I didn't feel the need to share it. dis shit too hard.
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People scared of claiming, when the assassin has already shot.. And since with mafia already having the assassin, they'd also pick one of the numerous rolecop options. So, he'll be able to shoot every day regardless of your claiming. Just saying.
I still want to lynch Artanis, more than ever. Fuck the stupid wifom defenses some of you guys come up with.
VE also still scum. I'm not sure how good the reasons to think he's NRA are, but I'd worry about that tomorrow. Today is Artanis-day.
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On April 08 2013 21:26 Oatsmaster wrote: Why so tunnelly dandel?
Thoughts on Palmar? Why is VE scum? Is it cause activity? Well I figured after saying "I'd lynch half the people in this game", I should tunnel a dude to mix it up a little.
VE is scum because activity + Show Spoiler [by the way] +On April 07 2013 00:45 VisceraEyes wrote: Game hasn't started bitch.
Wait til game starts and I blow your mind with activity. , horrible contribution, and his last post.
On April 08 2013 15:13 VisceraEyes wrote: I just got back and wow. Jesus.
So...there's a lot to take in. I know I'm not much of a presence in this game, but I seriously need to reread everything before I post again. My initial thoughts before doing so: scum trying to set me up maybe? -.-
God I look horrible.
1) Not doing shit after supposedly blowing this game out of the water with activity 2) Gives excuse for continuing to not do shit after not doing shit 3) "I'M GETTING SET UP HERE ;_;" whining that makes no sense because play like his doesn't need any "setting up" to push. 4) "god I look horrible" whining with no indication of doing anything about it.
Whiny lazy scum.
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On April 08 2013 21:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +I still want to lynch Artanis, more than ever. Fuck the stupid wifom defenses some of you guys come up with. Solid case bro. Tell me, if you were in a scumteam would you need more than the reasons I underlined to shoot someone? Really? It's not about NEEDING more. But if there ARE more, a mafiateam would gladly take it. In the end, this is a horrible point. I understand why you want to argue it, since it goes against you strongly, but that doesn't make it a good one by any stretch. Au contraire.
On April 08 2013 21:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also I looked up Vivax' meta, Oats. I don't think he's scum. His OMGUS on you and the fact that he didn't put any pressure on anyone in the early game other than that rubs me the wrong way, but he's been picking it up since then and showing the stream of consciousness that I'm used to seeing from a town Vivax. In his LX scum game he had a lot of small posts with no real meaning and large posts whenever he thought it was time to make it look like he was contributing. His posting style in this game is very different from that. Did you read LVIII?
Let's talk about who you want to lynch instead of yourself. You only defending yourself, it's getting boring. Why are you not pushing Shelvocke hardcore yet?
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On April 08 2013 23:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: If Caller is speaking the truth, I'm dead and the only two ways that could happen are a nuke (but it wouldn't make too much sense since his initial deadline was past the 12 hour requirement) or Showtime!. In this case, day ends, I flip green and we lynch Caller the next day. Why, exactly? Let's say he's showtime and you flip green, okay.
Why would caller kill you, apparantly an easy mislynch anyways, with a one-shot instantlynch that's invaluable in LYLO, and on top of that, anonymous. And claim it in the process. How is this more likely to be scum motivated? I don't see it. COULD it be? Yeah I guess, but I'm not feeling it.
I'll refer to yamato's kurumi shot in personality. Basically the same situation.
On April 08 2013 23:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: If Caller is lying, he's managed to derail the thread talking about things that don't matter for shit and won't give us any reads whereas there was a constructive town atmosphere before then. I see no reason why a town player would do so but plenty of reason for scum to do so. Thus, we lynch Caller today. I'd tentatively agree on this part.
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On April 08 2013 22:23 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 21:56 Restraining Order wrote:On April 08 2013 21:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote:I still want to lynch Artanis, more than ever. Fuck the stupid wifom defenses some of you guys come up with. Solid case bro. Tell me, if you were in a scumteam would you need more than the reasons I underlined to shoot someone? Really? It's not about NEEDING more. But if there ARE more, a mafiateam would gladly take it. In the end, this is a horrible point. I understand why you want to argue it, since it goes against you strongly, but that doesn't make it a good one by any stretch. Au contraire. DI, I much preferred your posting before you smurf was revealed. It reads now like you have defaulted back to normal DI. Which is a shame. Can we stop this line of discussion. Its all WIFOM. We dont know when the kill order was submitted; so its pointless continuing this. Traditional scum hunting *will* bear better results. Show nested quote +Let's talk about who you want to lynch instead of yourself. You only defending yourself, it's getting boring. Why are you not pushing Shelvocke hardcore yet? I believe the reasoning for Artanis vote from you solely, was ##Sheep Prior to that, you said you agree with Geript that VE is scum; and that you would be happy to shoot Sn0_Man. Walk me through why you are more adamant that Artanis needs to go since the assassination I have not defaulted to anything. I am not roleplaying anybody, and I have not been. The only thing that has changed is indeed your perception of my posts, and guess what, this is exactly why I decided to smurf. Look at how annoying/bad Vivax is being all this time? Ya.
It's WIFOM that people decided to BACK OFF Artanis for. Which makes no sense. So yeah, I pushed him harder because it looked to me like a stupid excuse for mafia to derail his lynch wagon. People were starting to back off for (imo) nothing, and I didn't like it at all.
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On April 09 2013 00:09 Mocsta wrote: The Kurumi kill is nothing alike at all DI/RO
This is a whole bunch of terrible posts from you in a row.
He begged to be killed.. i dont see artanis doing that.
very poor assertion here. You are becoming a Vivax. It's really sad to see how many people decide to be Vivaxes.
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On April 09 2013 00:20 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 00:18 Restraining Order wrote:On April 09 2013 00:09 Mocsta wrote: The Kurumi kill is nothing alike at all DI/RO
This is a whole bunch of terrible posts from you in a row.
He begged to be killed.. i dont see artanis doing that.
very poor assertion here. You are becoming a Vivax. It's really sad to see how many people decide to be Vivaxes. Nope. Your comment was incorrect; and miscontrued a point. Artanis is nothing like the Kurumi in personality It's not that Artanis is =Kurumi. That's completely and utterly not been the point I was making.
You are Vivaxing. You don't read, you don't think, you just fling shit because you can.
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On April 09 2013 00:21 Oatsmaster wrote: Anti town players dont flip scum. Like ever. The most recent example is MAYBE BH in THE GAME, but he wasnt anti town, just really spammy. RO, why is artanis' posting NOW scummy? Apparantly, he's dead now anyways, so what purpose does it have to ask this?
Is his posting now scummy? No I don't think so. Looks genuine. Does that help anybody that I say this? No. He's apparantly dead right now, so it doesn't matter what's said about him. If he doesn't die, then I'm fine with thinking he's town and lynching VE/Caller. If he dies, nothing we can do about it now.
I can practically feel Vivax/Mocsta typing up a furious post about how this post I just wrote is supposed to make me scum. I can feel it coming.
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Hm, votecount smells like a flip is incoming.
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EMPRAH
Uh, anyways, does this mean godfather who chose to look like an assassin or was he somehow both?
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On April 09 2013 04:14 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 04:11 geript wrote: Ok guys, we have 3 more to go. Let's do this. Suggestions? Austin.
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Voterigger feel free to claim for free towncred.
+ Show Spoiler [meaningless QQ] +I could have picked Assassin I thought that'd be gone for sure by my draft position
Gun-to-my-head, I'd say last 3 scum are Austin, Mocsta and either sno or vivax.
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On April 09 2013 04:29 Caller wrote: no, voterigger didnt do anything, if there is one
i did end the day, but since there was double lynch both of them wouldve died anyways Where did the doublelynch come from then?
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On April 09 2013 04:32 Restraining Order wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 04:29 Caller wrote: no, voterigger didnt do anything, if there is one
i did end the day, but since there was double lynch both of them wouldve died anyways Where did the doublelynch come from then? Oh yeah emperor too, missed that, gg
well make it "the dude that's responsible for doublelynch", then
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Don't be so shy, claiming is totally cool now.
I'm the Framer. I won't use my powers at all, so investigator alligator can rest a bit more easy now.
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On April 09 2013 04:38 strongandbig wrote: there could still be a bloodycobbler yolo
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On April 09 2013 04:46 geript wrote: I'm open to the possibility of a Town Vote Rigger, but scum vote rigger is far, far more likely IMO. Scum voterigger is unlikely as hell.
VE got lynched on the basis of 3 votes. A couple dudes had 2 votes on them. That pretty strongly suggests mafia had no clue doublelynch was active. They could have put ~2 votes on literally ANYBODY, and nobody would blame them since voterigger doublelynch is silent.
ADDITIONALLY, the double lynch was locked in pretty early, a mafia would have at least waited a little longer and saved his teammate maybe.
btw, I checked OP real good, and EMPRAH doublelynch gives everybody 2 votes, so it's not silent. This one is guaranteed to come from da riggah.
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On April 09 2013 05:00 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 04:52 Restraining Order wrote:On April 09 2013 04:46 geript wrote: I'm open to the possibility of a Town Vote Rigger, but scum vote rigger is far, far more likely IMO. Scum voterigger is unlikely as hell. VE got lynched on the basis of 3 votes. A couple dudes had 2 votes on them. That pretty strongly suggests mafia had no clue doublelynch was active. They could have put ~2 votes on literally ANYBODY, and nobody would blame them since voterigger doublelynch is silent. ADDITIONALLY, the double lynch was locked in pretty early, a mafia would have at least waited a little longer and saved his teammate maybe. btw, I checked OP real good, and EMPRAH doublelynch gives everybody 2 votes, so it's not silent. This one is guaranteed to come from da riggah. the emperor gets a free extra lynch on day 1 that seems by far the most likely thing to have happened + Show Spoiler [speculation] + it's also probably why the "day post" took so long after caller said he'd used his power. the hosts probably had to wait for the emperor to submit his choice for the extra second day1 lynch.
Okay, so apparantly I failed at reading after failing at reading.
You must select one player to lynch on Day 1 to celebrate how awesome you are. I totally missed the "to lynch" in that sentence. Okay, makes sense.
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On April 09 2013 06:19 Caller wrote: btw people im pretty sure this is the order of events that went down:
a) goznaw calls out artanis b) people start bandwagoning c) artanis shoots goznaw, other mafia +town try to direct the lynch momentum to VE, as unlimited assassin gf is an insanely valuable role d) i be a dick e) some extra lynch schenanigans f) ??? g) PROFIT. Actually I'm pretty sure mafia tried to push Shelvocke as the lynch.
Big Post (tm) incoming soon. + Show Spoiler +Not on Shelvocke. On scum.
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Actually Vivax is 100% scum. Through and through. Vigis, shoot the guy. If not, we lynch the guy tomorrow. I will not accept anything short of his cold, dead body.
So, in summary BOTH flipped mafia implicate him heavily. For Artanis it's on either side, for VE obviously not really since VE didn't actually post.
Summaries of both below, first comes Vivax' part, then the confirmed mafia's side.
VE:
On April 07 2013 06:58 Vivax wrote: Took a look at VE's filter cause he seems to be under suspicion. Liked his case, sheeping it.
##Vote: Restraining Order
On April 07 2013 07:08 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 07:03 Shelvocke wrote: What about the case on Restraining Order did you like? A lot. I would say it contains irrefutable evidence of someone not believing what he claims to be thinking is best to believe.
On April 07 2013 07:16 Vivax wrote: Shelvocke what do you dislike about VE's case? Can you tell me your draft pick?
On April 07 2013 08:05 Vivax wrote: Palmar mind giving out your numbers and commenting on VE's case?
VE's case is apparantly good, huh. I never knew.
On April 07 2013 07:58 Vivax wrote:I'll read through a few filters and write down some thoughts on the go. Mistakes aren't unlikely in the process and not intended. [1]1. Shelvocke just asked me about VE's case. That means he's well aware of it. Nonetheless he didn't comment on it despite it containing some very strong points in my opinion. [2] I would expect someone to put his scumread's case under more scrutiny and ask him out about it, not sidebump at people agreeing with it. Ninjad, so: Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 07:42 Shelvocke wrote:On April 07 2013 07:16 Vivax wrote: Shelvocke what do you dislike about VE's case? Can you tell me your draft pick? A lot of the points that he came up with, especially the "lol list scum" and the part about explaining why denying isn't a good strategy have nothing to do with Order's alignment and it appears as if he threw them in solely to inflate his post and make it look as if he is doing something. The point about the denying thing was good. It showed that RO was arguing for a town NOT arguing about how to design role picks, which is not only bad in itself, but is also a way to discourage discussion. As for the lolist, yeah, that maybe wasn't a strong point but I can see VE throwing that in while digging through the filter. [3]The point about RO apparently mixing scumreads with his 4/5 townreads still applies and has not been addressed by you. [1]: "I'll make mistakes, but that's totally not scummy because I warned you! And if my opinions turn out to be bullshit, well it wasn't intentional, okay!?!?" This is just scummy and not part of the association, but I cba to repeat this later.
[2]: "I am suspicious of you for not commenting on VE's case" But that's not all he says with it, he AGAIN underlines how great and grand VE's case is.
[3]: So the case was awesome and everything, but points that are clearly just strewn in to inflate its size are merely "not strong". No need for concern guys. That's totally not something that should give a townie a pause while reading it, it's merely "not strong". And we of course can all understand the motivation for putting it in there, right?? Right??
On April 07 2013 08:49 Vivax wrote: RO's whole defense against VE's case was "lol", and Palmar still didn't explain what makes VE scum aside from activity (and I would like to see how he defines that one). First part we've heard already I think. Second part is a blatant defense of VE. Quelle surprise.
Then, for a long time, he simply ignores VE. Once it becomes clear that VE is a very real lynch target and he can do nothing to stop it, time for a tactics switch: Let's soft-push without commiting to it!
On April 08 2013 23:11 Vivax wrote: I'm also considering VE for lynch currently, I didn't see anything of what he promised so far, and his pushes are less than half-assed.
On April 09 2013 00:05 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 00:02 Mocsta wrote:On April 08 2013 23:58 Ghor wrote:On April 08 2013 23:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 08 2013 23:49 Mocsta wrote: Rayn
i saw your vote for VE.
Lay it out for me hunny I forgot to vote him earlier in the actual voting thread. I think he is really unproductive and before the game started (during picking/drafing phase) he had really bad ideas that couldn't work. He's not doing anything and with the NRA thing on the table it makes him even more scummy because i know at least i am not the NRA guy. I don't want to lynch Artanis, i don't think he is scummy. He didn't push his idea to the fullest but noone who were giving out ideas didn't do it. It was really obvious no idea was going to work because ~3/4 of the players straight out refused to contribute anything on the ideas. Giving out your opinion on Artanis after Caller seemingly shot him is pretty useless, and scummy. Will you lynch Caller if Artanis flips green or not?That's what matters. Nope VE lynched today.. hes basically unkillable day or night (if NRA.. which as SnB pointed out seems likely based on his playstyle of trying to draw that attention) That is too speculative at this stage. Use orthodox arguments please. We don't know if he has NRA, we don't know if geript's claim is true, we don't know why he doesn't post much (he's not posting much either in a parallel game). I don't like how VE is playing but he's not the first guy I'd lynch today I think. RO, Sinani and Sno are my favourite targets. He might not be the role he is, don't believe true things too easily! I want to call him scummy so I look like I call him out, but obviously I'd rather lynch townies and have no intention of lynching VE! (yes, this translates to me giving both sinani and sno townreads, deal with it)
On VE's side there's not much, but there's something! Almost a miracle with that little activity....
On April 08 2013 01:29 VisceraEyes wrote:In what way is this post any different from this post? Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 10:06 deconduo wrote: Yeah, after reading his filter again
## Vote strongandbig You accuse Vivax of trying to "bandwagon" SnB but you yourself opened your "content" by similarly voting SnB with no reasoning. You accuse Vivax of not reading the thread, but somehow you missed the fact that gonzaw was scheduled for an earth-shattering scum-destroying case at the end of his countdown? Palmar I'm quite interested in why you think decon is town. That feels kinda like fucking bullshit from you. ##Unvote ##Vote deconduo Also known as: Where VE pushes a guy that's suspicious of Vivax. Coincidence? I think not. Apart from this, VE never mentions Vivax.
Artanis:
On April 07 2013 21:54 Vivax wrote: Artanis still think geript is scum?
Comments on VE and his RO case? Easy as shit to do interaction, asking basically for a "yes" and a +1.
On April 08 2013 05:13 Vivax wrote:Gonzaw, took a look through Artanis filter and his defense to your case, but I don't see stuff striking me as scummy. I thought he was scum in British for his defensive play, and the smaller posts can be explained through the lower motivation in a big game like he explained. [1]You also mention a thing in your case where Artanis called out geript for giving out a controversial opinion to geript: Show nested quote + I just can't believe Artanis is serious with that accusation. It seems he saw something random from geript and decided to use it against him without even thinking about it, it's the only explanation I can find.
You don't believe he is serious with it, but it does indeed look...controversial from geript to have written that thing. I don't think you can hold that against Artanis for example outside of your belief that he wasn't serious with it. [2]Or calling his aggressive behaviour fake. I don't see why you arbitrarily call it either aggressive or fake. [3]I don't know if there's just a lot of confirmation bias in that case, gonzaw, but it didn't convince me, tbh it looks like you added too many extras to it :o[ [4] [1]: "oh yes I totally looked at Artanis and I'm scumhunting and contributing, believe me. But I think a scum is town because [vague annotations about meta], thanks!" Further problems with this: He notes how he misread him in British as a reason for him to be wary of calling him scum. This is complete BS. Vivax has read me 100% wrong in EVERY game we have played together, apart from maybe LX if you want to nitpick, but ofc we were both scum there. DOES THAT MOTIVATE HIM TO REASSESS HIS READ ON ME IN ANY WAY? HELL NO. This is a textbook example of preferrential treatment. And of course, to top it off, he 'believes' Artanis' stupid excuse for not being active in an instant.
[2]: Highlighting the relevant part again: "I don't think you can hold that against Artanis". Of course not. Who would hold anything against Artanis?!?
[3]: "His agressive behavior isn't fake at all! Actually it's not even agressive at all! Actually it's not even behavior! Actually I'm not even town!" Eh. You get the gist.
[4]: Case on artanis is, obviously, not convincing. Confirmation bias and such. Sure beans.
On April 08 2013 07:41 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 07:37 gonzaw wrote: Question: How do you guys feel about both Shevlocke and Artanis being scum? Do you think this is possible (even considering Artanis' vote of Shevy up there)? If so, what do you think the correct course of action would be today?
Also, Sharrant get your ass in here, take your vote off Keirathi and do something. Yamato, tell us why you parked your vote on Palmar and did shit all D1. Yes, I know you are "suspicious" of Palmar from that case you wrote, but you've ignored everything about Artanis, Shevlocke, and everything else. This is not helpful and is NOT how you played in early draft phase. Step up I advise those that have votes on "irrelevant" people with just 1-2 votes take a step back, analyze them and Artanis/Shevlocke/etc again, and then tell us if you will keep parking your vote on that irrelevant guy, try to actually convince us to lynch him, or take a stance on Arty/Shevvy and put your vote on an actual lynch.
RO, do you still think S&B is scum? You parked your vote on him and I don't remember you commenting on him at all afterwards. You haven't commented on Artanis either.
Like half the game is just apathetic towards everything. I wish I could just shoot you :/ Artanis is not the type who should be shot cause he does give a fuck about his image (as opposed to RO, for example). Go for trolls and lurky stuff. Sno_Man, RO, Sinani, Caller. Not sure about BM but at least activity doesn't seem to be much of a concern lol. Not gonna cry over those if you shoot them. "Artanis shouldn't be shot. Don't shoot scum. I'd prefer if you shoot trolls and lurkers instead."
Of course he wouldn't shed tears for dead townies. scumslip scumslip ololololololol (writing so much makes me bored, sorry about that)
On April 08 2013 23:04 Vivax wrote:Did you guys even read which targets gonzaw considered for the shot? It wasn't Artanis, those were Shelvocke and Sno_Man. RO either doesn't read or uses a WIFOM argument on a wrong base without considering all other options. This is how gonzaw wanted to use his role initially: Show nested quote + I still don't get what makes Shevlocke scummier than Artanis.....like..did I miss a scumslip or something >_> I mean, I get how someone can think of him as scum.....but I'm missing how Artanis looks better than him, and I'm missing that "he's definitely scum" way I feel about scum :/
I will say that the more Shevlocke fails to appear and contribute, the more I feel like I could shoot him as well.
I'm torn between sno and shevlocke (although Shevlocke is more of a "yeah he could be scum, but I'm not sure if he should be a lynch (because of stuff explained before); maybe straight up killing him outside of lynch would be better"), leaning on sno.
So if you gotta ride the WIFOM-train, putting it all onto Artanis is scummy as shit. See RO for details. I want to lynch into RO, Sno, maybe Shelvocke, but need to get to a conclusion first, I found him kinda scummy earlier on. Sinani also looks bad. This is a big game, scum can hide, everyone having their eyes on the most active dudes should think twice about lynching them. Wifom argument that the gonzaw shot doesn't implicate Artanis at all. You know who said the same thing? Oh yes, Artanis! Hmmm.
Going after Artanis is also scummy as shit, apparantly.
We've seen the rest a hundred times already by now, only now Shelvocke is included. Who Artanis is currently pushing. Who is clearly getting prepared for a full scum-team push on him here. Just FYI.
On April 08 2013 23:36 Vivax wrote: If Caller shoots Artanis I'm not opting for anything but his lynch until he's dead. Watch out Caller, you gonna get nightkilled.
There are some more threats to Caller about him killing Artanis, but I'm getting lazy.
Artanis' side of things:
On April 04 2013 23:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote: If we're going to policy lynch I'd rather lynch Vivax. Looks entirely unremarkable. It is. It's also never seriously considered or followed up on.
On April 06 2013 08:35 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 08:27 Mocsta wrote:On April 06 2013 08:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 06 2013 08:16 Mocsta wrote:On April 06 2013 08:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Mocsta, it's not an association read. That just adds to the case. The post that really set me off was the one where he called you town but not really but town five times in two sentences. Its association because there is no flip. The association was, if Geript is scum; it goes someways towards implicating Keirathi as associated scum (you know, the stuff that was taken precedence over the past 2/3 pages, originated by Caller) But I'm not using it as an association case at all, my main crux of the case was the post I mentioned which has no bearing on Keirathi or Caller or any of that. Look at that post alone and tell me if you see any town motivation in making it. Geript is a difficult player to work with. + Show Spoiler [Geript fallacies] +His second game on this forum (Mafia LX).. lets just say.. post-game, people decided he needs to be wrapped in cotton-wool.
Geript is not stupid; is aware of this perception; and realises to play it to his strengths. Geript also has more balls than ppl give him credit for.
The other hard part is: his play is still developing. He just played scum; so has more insight in how to blend in as scum; and also what he values are being a good townie.
I just wanted to point out here some context for a publicly considered "fragile" player - a reputation I dont think he deserves. I think there is merit in what you have pointed out, and am paying close attention to his responses. I also find it curious that when defending Rayn, he likes to point out validity in VE strategy as a basis. Soon he proceeds to call out VE for "working behind the scenes", and then later calls him out again for not scum hunting.
P.S. its sat morning for me, so I will be back in 10-12hrs. So he's playing to his strengths by saying things that have no town motivation? Please explain to me how that works. Are you saying that like Vivax he rolls scum in 100% of his games regardless of his role PM? If he's so aware of his perception, why does his posting history look so awful? You've basically said in this post that he's better than people give him credit for, yet his post history reeks of scum. If he's good as you say he is then this should ring even more alarm bells. The point regarding VE you make only compounds that, so that makes me wonder. Why so noncommittal? This doesn't actually say anything of value either. Let's go full confirmation bias and say "Are you saying that like Vivax he rolls scum in 100% of his games regardless of his role PM" is an excuse to excuse Vivax' scummy behavior because he apparantly always does that.
Then his read/list post states:
On April 08 2013 06:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Vivax Vivax is Vivax. In all previous games I've played with him he's rolled scum, but sometimes the host accidentally flipped him green. This game I feel like he's playing better than any game he's had before. There's still Vivax moments of trying to be right where everyone else is wrong, but he's being cooperative. I see no reason why he wouldn't stick to his unreadable meta if he rolled scum. Town. Oh a townread. Because Vivax is supposedly not playing to either meta, and is apparantly 'cooperative'. What he forgets though, and continues to forget, is Vivax' scum play in LVIII. Which showed a marked absence of the raving moronic town Vivax we all rightfully hate. Guess what? This town Vivax is also not present in this game. But that little piece of meta will go ignored. Better not bring it up, and hope nobody else does.
*insert 2 one-liners repeating his above read I cba to quote*
On April 08 2013 21:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also I looked up Vivax' meta, Oats. I don't think he's scum. His OMGUS on you and the fact that he didn't put any pressure on anyone in the early game other than that rubs me the wrong way, but he's been picking it up since then and showing the stream of consciousness that I'm used to seeing from a town Vivax. In his LX scum game he had a lot of small posts with no real meaning and large posts whenever he thought it was time to make it look like he was contributing. His posting style in this game is very different from that. LX as the sole hallmark for Vivax' scumplay. Aren't we forgetting a game?
Luckily, dandy dan is here for you.
On April 08 2013 22:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 21:56 Restraining Order wrote:On April 08 2013 21:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote:I still want to lynch Artanis, more than ever. Fuck the stupid wifom defenses some of you guys come up with. Solid case bro. Tell me, if you were in a scumteam would you need more than the reasons I underlined to shoot someone? Really? It's not about NEEDING more. But if there ARE more, a mafiateam would gladly take it. In the end, this is a horrible point. I understand why you want to argue it, since it goes against you strongly, but that doesn't make it a good one by any stretch. Au contraire. No, that's dumb because if scum will shoot him 100% of the time for the reasons I stated then any potential extra reasons are completely moot. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 21:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also I looked up Vivax' meta, Oats. I don't think he's scum. His OMGUS on you and the fact that he didn't put any pressure on anyone in the early game other than that rubs me the wrong way, but he's been picking it up since then and showing the stream of consciousness that I'm used to seeing from a town Vivax. In his LX scum game he had a lot of small posts with no real meaning and large posts whenever he thought it was time to make it look like he was contributing. His posting style in this game is very different from that. Did you read LVIII? Let's talk about who you want to lynch instead of yourself. You only defending yourself, it's getting boring. Why are you not pushing Shelvocke hardcore yet? I read LX and British Empire II. So, when I'm obviously implying that he has played like he does this game exactly once before, and it was a scumgame, it would not do to check it and take a stance on that. Of course not.
So yeah Vivax is like, maaaaafia and shit.
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On April 09 2013 06:39 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 06:30 Restraining Order wrote:Actually Vivax is 100% scum. Through and through. Vigis, shoot the guy. If not, we lynch the guy tomorrow. I will not accept anything short of his cold, dead body.So, in summary BOTH flipped mafia implicate him heavily. For Artanis it's on either side, for VE obviously not really since VE didn't actually post. Summaries of both below, first comes Vivax' part, then the confirmed mafia's side. VE:On April 07 2013 06:58 Vivax wrote: Took a look at VE's filter cause he seems to be under suspicion. Liked his case, sheeping it.
##Vote: Restraining Order On April 07 2013 07:08 Vivax wrote:On April 07 2013 07:03 Shelvocke wrote: What about the case on Restraining Order did you like? A lot. I would say it contains irrefutable evidence of someone not believing what he claims to be thinking is best to believe. On April 07 2013 07:16 Vivax wrote: Shelvocke what do you dislike about VE's case? Can you tell me your draft pick? On April 07 2013 08:05 Vivax wrote: Palmar mind giving out your numbers and commenting on VE's case? VE's case is apparantly good, huh. I never knew. On April 07 2013 07:58 Vivax wrote:I'll read through a few filters and write down some thoughts on the go. Mistakes aren't unlikely in the process and not intended. [1]1. Shelvocke just asked me about VE's case. That means he's well aware of it. Nonetheless he didn't comment on it despite it containing some very strong points in my opinion. [2] I would expect someone to put his scumread's case under more scrutiny and ask him out about it, not sidebump at people agreeing with it. Ninjad, so: On April 07 2013 07:42 Shelvocke wrote:On April 07 2013 07:16 Vivax wrote: Shelvocke what do you dislike about VE's case? Can you tell me your draft pick? A lot of the points that he came up with, especially the "lol list scum" and the part about explaining why denying isn't a good strategy have nothing to do with Order's alignment and it appears as if he threw them in solely to inflate his post and make it look as if he is doing something. The point about the denying thing was good. It showed that RO was arguing for a town NOT arguing about how to design role picks, which is not only bad in itself, but is also a way to discourage discussion. As for the lolist, yeah, that maybe wasn't a strong point but I can see VE throwing that in while digging through the filter. [3]The point about RO apparently mixing scumreads with his 4/5 townreads still applies and has not been addressed by you. [1]: "I'll make mistakes, but that's totally not scummy because I warned you! And if my opinions turn out to be bullshit, well it wasn't intentional, okay!?!?" This is just scummy and not part of the association, but I cba to repeat this later. [2]: "I am suspicious of you for not commenting on VE's case" But that's not all he says with it, he AGAIN underlines how great and grand VE's case is. [3]: So the case was awesome and everything, but points that are clearly just strewn in to inflate its size are merely "not strong". No need for concern guys. That's totally not something that should give a townie a pause while reading it, it's merely "not strong". And we of course can all understand the motivation for putting it in there, right?? Right?? On April 07 2013 08:49 Vivax wrote: RO's whole defense against VE's case was "lol", and Palmar still didn't explain what makes VE scum aside from activity (and I would like to see how he defines that one). First part we've heard already I think. Second part is a blatant defense of VE. Quelle surprise. Then, for a long time, he simply ignores VE. Once it becomes clear that VE is a very real lynch target and he can do nothing to stop it, time for a tactics switch: Let's soft-push without commiting to it! On April 08 2013 23:11 Vivax wrote: I'm also considering VE for lynch currently, I didn't see anything of what he promised so far, and his pushes are less than half-assed. On April 09 2013 00:05 Vivax wrote:On April 09 2013 00:02 Mocsta wrote:On April 08 2013 23:58 Ghor wrote:On April 08 2013 23:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 08 2013 23:49 Mocsta wrote: Rayn
i saw your vote for VE.
Lay it out for me hunny I forgot to vote him earlier in the actual voting thread. I think he is really unproductive and before the game started (during picking/drafing phase) he had really bad ideas that couldn't work. He's not doing anything and with the NRA thing on the table it makes him even more scummy because i know at least i am not the NRA guy. I don't want to lynch Artanis, i don't think he is scummy. He didn't push his idea to the fullest but noone who were giving out ideas didn't do it. It was really obvious no idea was going to work because ~3/4 of the players straight out refused to contribute anything on the ideas. Giving out your opinion on Artanis after Caller seemingly shot him is pretty useless, and scummy. Will you lynch Caller if Artanis flips green or not?That's what matters. Nope VE lynched today.. hes basically unkillable day or night (if NRA.. which as SnB pointed out seems likely based on his playstyle of trying to draw that attention) That is too speculative at this stage. Use orthodox arguments please. We don't know if he has NRA, we don't know if geript's claim is true, we don't know why he doesn't post much (he's not posting much either in a parallel game). I don't like how VE is playing but he's not the first guy I'd lynch today I think. RO, Sinani and Sno are my favourite targets. He might not be the role he is, don't believe true things too easily! I want to call him scummy so I look like I call him out, but obviously I'd rather lynch townies and have no intention of lynching VE! (yes, this translates to me giving both sinani and sno townreads, deal with it) On VE's side there's not much, but there's something! Almost a miracle with that little activity.... On April 08 2013 01:29 VisceraEyes wrote:In what way is this post On April 07 2013 23:35 Vivax wrote: Anyone else finding S & B scummy? any different from this post? On April 07 2013 10:06 deconduo wrote: Yeah, after reading his filter again
## Vote strongandbig You accuse Vivax of trying to "bandwagon" SnB but you yourself opened your "content" by similarly voting SnB with no reasoning. You accuse Vivax of not reading the thread, but somehow you missed the fact that gonzaw was scheduled for an earth-shattering scum-destroying case at the end of his countdown? Palmar I'm quite interested in why you think decon is town. That feels kinda like fucking bullshit from you. ##Unvote ##Vote deconduo Also known as: Where VE pushes a guy that's suspicious of Vivax.Coincidence? I think not. Apart from this, VE never mentions Vivax. Artanis:On April 07 2013 21:54 Vivax wrote: Artanis still think geript is scum?
Comments on VE and his RO case? Easy as shit to do interaction, asking basically for a "yes" and a +1. On April 08 2013 05:13 Vivax wrote:Gonzaw, took a look through Artanis filter and his defense to your case, but I don't see stuff striking me as scummy. I thought he was scum in British for his defensive play, and the smaller posts can be explained through the lower motivation in a big game like he explained. [1]You also mention a thing in your case where Artanis called out geript for giving out a controversial opinion to geript: I just can't believe Artanis is serious with that accusation. It seems he saw something random from geript and decided to use it against him without even thinking about it, it's the only explanation I can find.
You don't believe he is serious with it, but it does indeed look...controversial from geript to have written that thing. I don't think you can hold that against Artanis for example outside of your belief that he wasn't serious with it. [2]Or calling his aggressive behaviour fake. I don't see why you arbitrarily call it either aggressive or fake. [3]I don't know if there's just a lot of confirmation bias in that case, gonzaw, but it didn't convince me, tbh it looks like you added too many extras to it :o[ [4] [1]: "oh yes I totally looked at Artanis and I'm scumhunting and contributing, believe me. But I think a scum is town because [vague annotations about meta], thanks!" Further problems with this: He notes how he misread him in British as a reason for him to be wary of calling him scum. This is complete BS. Vivax has read me 100% wrong in EVERY game we have played together, apart from maybe LX if you want to nitpick, but ofc we were both scum there. DOES THAT MOTIVATE HIM TO REASSESS HIS READ ON ME IN ANY WAY? HELL NO. This is a textbook example of preferrential treatment. And of course, to top it off, he 'believes' Artanis' stupid excuse for not being active in an instant. [2]: Highlighting the relevant part again: "I don't think you can hold that against Artanis". Of course not. Who would hold anything against Artanis?!? [3]: "His agressive behavior isn't fake at all! Actually it's not even agressive at all! Actually it's not even behavior! Actually I'm not even town!" Eh. You get the gist. [4]: Case on artanis is, obviously, not convincing. Confirmation bias and such. Sure beans. On April 08 2013 07:41 Vivax wrote:On April 08 2013 07:37 gonzaw wrote: Question: How do you guys feel about both Shevlocke and Artanis being scum? Do you think this is possible (even considering Artanis' vote of Shevy up there)? If so, what do you think the correct course of action would be today?
Also, Sharrant get your ass in here, take your vote off Keirathi and do something. Yamato, tell us why you parked your vote on Palmar and did shit all D1. Yes, I know you are "suspicious" of Palmar from that case you wrote, but you've ignored everything about Artanis, Shevlocke, and everything else. This is not helpful and is NOT how you played in early draft phase. Step up I advise those that have votes on "irrelevant" people with just 1-2 votes take a step back, analyze them and Artanis/Shevlocke/etc again, and then tell us if you will keep parking your vote on that irrelevant guy, try to actually convince us to lynch him, or take a stance on Arty/Shevvy and put your vote on an actual lynch.
RO, do you still think S&B is scum? You parked your vote on him and I don't remember you commenting on him at all afterwards. You haven't commented on Artanis either.
Like half the game is just apathetic towards everything. I wish I could just shoot you :/Artanis is not the type who should be shot cause he does give a fuck about his image (as opposed to RO, for example). Go for trolls and lurky stuff. Sno_Man, RO, Sinani, Caller. Not sure about BM but at least activity doesn't seem to be much of a concern lol. Not gonna cry over those if you shoot them. "Artanis shouldn't be shot. Don't shoot scum. I'd prefer if you shoot trolls and lurkers instead." Of course he wouldn't shed tears for dead townies. scumslip scumslip ololololololol (writing so much makes me bored, sorry about that) On April 08 2013 23:04 Vivax wrote:Did you guys even read which targets gonzaw considered for the shot? It wasn't Artanis, those were Shelvocke and Sno_Man. RO either doesn't read or uses a WIFOM argument on a wrong base without considering all other options. This is how gonzaw wanted to use his role initially: I still don't get what makes Shevlocke scummier than Artanis.....like..did I miss a scumslip or something >_> I mean, I get how someone can think of him as scum.....but I'm missing how Artanis looks better than him, and I'm missing that "he's definitely scum" way I feel about scum :/
I will say that the more Shevlocke fails to appear and contribute, the more I feel like I could shoot him as well.
I'm torn between sno and shevlocke (although Shevlocke is more of a "yeah he could be scum, but I'm not sure if he should be a lynch (because of stuff explained before); maybe straight up killing him outside of lynch would be better"), leaning on sno.
So if you gotta ride the WIFOM-train, putting it all onto Artanis is scummy as shit. See RO for details. I want to lynch into RO, Sno, maybe Shelvocke, but need to get to a conclusion first, I found him kinda scummy earlier on. Sinani also looks bad. This is a big game, scum can hide, everyone having their eyes on the most active dudes should think twice about lynching them. Wifom argument that the gonzaw shot doesn't implicate Artanis at all. You know who said the same thing? Oh yes, Artanis! Hmmm. Going after Artanis is also scummy as shit, apparantly. We've seen the rest a hundred times already by now, only now Shelvocke is included. Who Artanis is currently pushing. Who is clearly getting prepared for a full scum-team push on him here. Just FYI. On April 08 2013 23:36 Vivax wrote: If Caller shoots Artanis I'm not opting for anything but his lynch until he's dead. Watch out Caller, you gonna get nightkilled. There are some more threats to Caller about him killing Artanis, but I'm getting lazy. Artanis' side of things: On April 04 2013 23:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote: If we're going to policy lynch I'd rather lynch Vivax. Looks entirely unremarkable. It is. It's also never seriously considered or followed up on. On April 06 2013 08:35 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 06 2013 08:27 Mocsta wrote:On April 06 2013 08:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 06 2013 08:16 Mocsta wrote:On April 06 2013 08:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Mocsta, it's not an association read. That just adds to the case. The post that really set me off was the one where he called you town but not really but town five times in two sentences. Its association because there is no flip. The association was, if Geript is scum; it goes someways towards implicating Keirathi as associated scum (you know, the stuff that was taken precedence over the past 2/3 pages, originated by Caller) But I'm not using it as an association case at all, my main crux of the case was the post I mentioned which has no bearing on Keirathi or Caller or any of that. Look at that post alone and tell me if you see any town motivation in making it. Geript is a difficult player to work with. + Show Spoiler [Geript fallacies] +His second game on this forum (Mafia LX).. lets just say.. post-game, people decided he needs to be wrapped in cotton-wool.
Geript is not stupid; is aware of this perception; and realises to play it to his strengths. Geript also has more balls than ppl give him credit for.
The other hard part is: his play is still developing. He just played scum; so has more insight in how to blend in as scum; and also what he values are being a good townie.
I just wanted to point out here some context for a publicly considered "fragile" player - a reputation I dont think he deserves. I think there is merit in what you have pointed out, and am paying close attention to his responses. I also find it curious that when defending Rayn, he likes to point out validity in VE strategy as a basis. Soon he proceeds to call out VE for "working behind the scenes", and then later calls him out again for not scum hunting.
P.S. its sat morning for me, so I will be back in 10-12hrs. So he's playing to his strengths by saying things that have no town motivation? Please explain to me how that works. Are you saying that like Vivax he rolls scum in 100% of his games regardless of his role PM? If he's so aware of his perception, why does his posting history look so awful? You've basically said in this post that he's better than people give him credit for, yet his post history reeks of scum. If he's good as you say he is then this should ring even more alarm bells. The point regarding VE you make only compounds that, so that makes me wonder. Why so noncommittal? This doesn't actually say anything of value either. Let's go full confirmation bias and say "Are you saying that like Vivax he rolls scum in 100% of his games regardless of his role PM" is an excuse to excuse Vivax' scummy behavior because he apparantly always does that. Then his read/list post states: On April 08 2013 06:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Vivax Vivax is Vivax. In all previous games I've played with him he's rolled scum, but sometimes the host accidentally flipped him green. This game I feel like he's playing better than any game he's had before. There's still Vivax moments of trying to be right where everyone else is wrong, but he's being cooperative. I see no reason why he wouldn't stick to his unreadable meta if he rolled scum. Town. Oh a townread. Because Vivax is supposedly not playing to either meta, and is apparantly 'cooperative'. What he forgets though, and continues to forget, is Vivax' scum play in LVIII. Which showed a marked absence of the raving moronic town Vivax we all rightfully hate. Guess what? This town Vivax is also not present in this game. But that little piece of meta will go ignored. Better not bring it up, and hope nobody else does. *insert 2 one-liners repeating his above read I cba to quote* On April 08 2013 21:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also I looked up Vivax' meta, Oats. I don't think he's scum. His OMGUS on you and the fact that he didn't put any pressure on anyone in the early game other than that rubs me the wrong way, but he's been picking it up since then and showing the stream of consciousness that I'm used to seeing from a town Vivax. In his LX scum game he had a lot of small posts with no real meaning and large posts whenever he thought it was time to make it look like he was contributing. His posting style in this game is very different from that. LX as the sole hallmark for Vivax' scumplay. Aren't we forgetting a game? Luckily, dandy dan is here for you. On April 08 2013 22:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 08 2013 21:56 Restraining Order wrote:On April 08 2013 21:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote:I still want to lynch Artanis, more than ever. Fuck the stupid wifom defenses some of you guys come up with. Solid case bro. Tell me, if you were in a scumteam would you need more than the reasons I underlined to shoot someone? Really? It's not about NEEDING more. But if there ARE more, a mafiateam would gladly take it. In the end, this is a horrible point. I understand why you want to argue it, since it goes against you strongly, but that doesn't make it a good one by any stretch. Au contraire. No, that's dumb because if scum will shoot him 100% of the time for the reasons I stated then any potential extra reasons are completely moot. On April 08 2013 21:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also I looked up Vivax' meta, Oats. I don't think he's scum. His OMGUS on you and the fact that he didn't put any pressure on anyone in the early game other than that rubs me the wrong way, but he's been picking it up since then and showing the stream of consciousness that I'm used to seeing from a town Vivax. In his LX scum game he had a lot of small posts with no real meaning and large posts whenever he thought it was time to make it look like he was contributing. His posting style in this game is very different from that. Did you read LVIII? Let's talk about who you want to lynch instead of yourself. You only defending yourself, it's getting boring. Why are you not pushing Shelvocke hardcore yet? I read LX and British Empire II. So, when I'm obviously implying that he has played like he does this game exactly once before, and it was a scumgame, it would not do to check it and take a stance on that. Of course not. So yeah Vivax is like, maaaaafia and shit. Through and through is austrianglish. ok, sorry mixed that up. Ignore me, then. Case is obviously invalid.
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On April 09 2013 06:53 Sn0_Man wrote: Wat? through and through is fine english.
Either way, I agree with Kei lets lynch sinani (once it's day) since he is scum.
I'd say he should be shot tonight but I thought the consensus at the beginnning of the game wast that town with KP were supposed to NOT use it? (at least, that is most of geript's justification for his role selection). Sounds dumb.
I suggest shooting some fuckers.
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On April 09 2013 07:56 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 07:33 Sn0_Man wrote:On April 09 2013 07:21 geript wrote: I think we have some strong information to shoot off of and some people who are acting exceptionally odd/scummy. I'm fine with either a Vivax or Sn0 shot. Of the two, I'd much prefer a Sn0 shot as we'd likely have to lynch him sometime anyways. Other than that, not so much. How does this apply to me and not to Vivax? Either way I'd like to survive to day 2 so that I have some way to prove innocence if that becomes necessary. I still don't see what case there is on me (I recognized vivax? zomg obviously scum...) dis guy so scum Vivax more scum. What say you.
I make case. Case big. Big case must = correct. That rule yes?
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On April 09 2013 08:04 Palmar wrote: what now? But Case big.
Many word.
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On April 09 2013 08:09 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 08:07 Restraining Order wrote:On April 09 2013 08:04 Palmar wrote: what now? But Case big. Many word. why is this guy talking like a caveman? I used up my brainpower for today.
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On April 09 2013 08:41 Mocsta wrote: Well done on the scum double lunch.
Caller you are an idiot. Why would scum lead a lynch on NRA member who benefits from being cast as dodgy and suspect to investigation.
There's been lots of productive convo since the deaths.
Shelvocke is certainly confirmed town. Based on artanis actions.
For day2 I would be keen on a Palmar lynch. its clear as water he is only trolling this game. In fact. I asked him for a read on vivax earlier. He lists him as confirmed town with no justification. Whereas the case from restraining ordewr does show some nice with artanis, who also called him town,
Palmar early votes ve and artanis. But never walks us through why. Its all sheep to thread sentiment. so he gets no town cred for it.
Then he comes in to throw suspicion over ppl that moved off artanis. Which is ridiculous. ,as most thought he improved his towniness, and again why move from scum to scum. The crux of choosing ve over artanis was the NRA role which had to be lynched to avoid a town kp sacrifice. So let me get this straight.
The association case on Vivax shows how he's clearly in a scumteam with Artanis. Which obviously means that Palmar is scum because he called Vivax town.
And you want to lynch said Palmar over Vivax the scum.
Am I following so far?
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On April 09 2013 09:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: I totally support the framer guy (was it RO?) framing sn0. And why would I do that?
No reason to, so I won't.
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Oats and Meapak probably town. Maybe.
austin, likely, sno, possible, but I currently think you are scum instead of sno (together you are unlikely imo so I want to flip you naaaaooo).
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On April 09 2013 09:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 09:17 Restraining Order wrote:On April 09 2013 09:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: I totally support the framer guy (was it RO?) framing sn0. And why would I do that? No reason to, so I won't. To redirect sn0 to himself if he's mafia and has a KP role? Oh yeah I forgot responding to this: I picked Framer in hope that it works like that. Turns out it doesn't.
I can't actually misdirect any actions, it apparantly just looks like it for watchers/trackers and stuff.
So it's useless and I'm a VT now and I should have picked a better role. Like assassin. TIL.
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On April 09 2013 10:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 10:12 Restraining Order wrote:On April 09 2013 09:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 09 2013 09:17 Restraining Order wrote:On April 09 2013 09:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: I totally support the framer guy (was it RO?) framing sn0. And why would I do that? No reason to, so I won't. To redirect sn0 to himself if he's mafia and has a KP role? Oh yeah I forgot responding to this: I picked Framer in hope that it works like that. Turns out it doesn't. I can't actually misdirect any actions, it apparantly just looks like it for watchers/trackers and stuff. So it's useless and I'm a VT now and I should have picked a better role. Like assassin. TIL. wtf, how can this mean anything else: Show nested quote +You have the power to change how one's alignment and role appears to any detective type actions performed on them that night. You may use it on one person per night and may not use it on yourself. In addition, you may also choose to have your framed target visit anyone you choose. Any actions they perform will also be misdirected. Your target will also show up to watcher and tracker reports. ??? I don't know how, but I asked twice and it's how it works.
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This is boring as shit.
Half the players better die tonight.
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You are a vote rigger! You have two oneshot powers. The first is you can, once only, force a double lynch at any time during the voting (the two leading candidates at the end of the day are lynched). The second is that you may rig the votes as you see fit. Surprise! You may only use one power per day.
Shoot Mocsta too.
pls.
I can't take it anymore.
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On April 09 2013 21:58 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 21:56 Restraining Order wrote:You are a vote rigger! You have two oneshot powers. The first is you can, once only, force a double lynch at any time during the voting (the two leading candidates at the end of the day are lynched). The second is that you may rig the votes as you see fit. Surprise! You may only use one power per day. Shoot Mocsta too. pls. I can't take it anymore. Dick fuck thats 49 hrs - which is end of cycle dip shit. fuck off with your wrong accusations. I cant take it anymore. Go lynch yourself. What accusation?
I just want you to be shot so I don't have to read your posts anymore.
It's still very possible that you're mafia-dumb, not just dumb-dumb, so it's a really good shot, trust me. Almost as good as Vivax.
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On April 09 2013 22:04 Mocsta wrote: LOL
*clap clap* DI
Its vote-rigger.
& proven by timestamps.
Keep on pretending to contribute. I won't read your posts anymore.
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You're just jelly cause you didn't do squat.
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So, OO took a mere 37 minutes to read 2 days worth of gametime, and find a scumread (that's not called Vivax) he's certain of all in one.
I am unsure on how serious I should take that.
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On April 10 2013 07:22 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 07:07 Restraining Order wrote: So, OO took a mere 37 minutes to read 2 days worth of gametime, and find a scumread (that's not called Vivax) he's certain of all in one.
I am unsure on how serious I should take that. I love that you aren't any better than me though. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
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On April 10 2013 08:04 Sn0_Man wrote: I noticed this. Most people's approach to calling me scum has been to act as rudely as possible without presenting any reasons why I might be scum. (see: oats, palmar)
I was under the impression reasons were good things. Especially since calling me scum without listing any makes me think that they are scum, although that is just OMGUS and not really a good reason itself. Mayhap, and this be only my humble words in thine ear, thou shalt use the knowledge that thou are within the ranks of town to perform a feat that may seem farfetched at first glance: Search and find scum.
Humble me understands it looks to some to be far more productive to speak in the vein of "I'm town believe me or fuck off l0l but seriously I don't know who else would be scum but I'm totally town you should trust me I wouldn't lie about things like that", but indeed I suggest the arduous task of 'scumhunting' instead, your excellence.
Self-evidently, this humble piece of advice by this humble servant not only be applicable to a mere single person. Indeed, many a man seems to think "I'm town believe me or fuck off l0l but seriously I don't know who else would be scum but I'm totally town you should trust me I wouldn't lie about things like that" is a valid substitute for actually playing this game.
With my deepest regards and most faithful blessings, Me.
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On April 10 2013 08:33 Sn0_Man wrote: I still think sinani is scum. He's made like 1 useless post since I last explained why. If you want I can let the thread know hourly how little he has contributed and why I think he is scum but I don't see the value there.
Beyond that I'm more interested to see how night actions resolve. Once that information is available reads will progress.
On April 10 2013 07:32 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 07:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: I have an idea. sn0_man and ObvousOne. Shoot each other. At least sn0_man has basically claimed he has a KP role and one of them like HAS to be scum. I most certainly have not claimed anything of the sort. Plus I'm not scum (not so sure about ObviousOne but there are only 3 scum left and I have a lot of people who i think could be scum already). Nice try though. "a lot of people" = sinani?
I'm not asking for hourly sinani updates here. You seem to have "a lot" down as scum suspects, and all you do is ride on sinani and 'defend' yourself.
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On April 10 2013 08:58 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 08:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: sn0 have you read RO's filter after D1? What did he do on D1? After day 1 he's been trying to get Vivax lynched Day 1 he claimed framer and thats all I remember beyond a null impression and him posting some stuff I didn't agree with. While I did read the entire thread, it kinda blurs together when you blast through 50 pages from the weekend in one sitting. wow, you need to reread the thread really badly.
Like, REALLY badly.
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? deadline is supposed to be in 10 mins right? IIRC
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Anyways, scum is still austin, vivax and mocsta.
plexaplexa
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So, let's work with only decon as scum. So two more.
Let's lynch austin.
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Oh, just noticed double lynch. neato.
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On April 10 2013 11:24 Keirathi wrote: Austin not scum. Cool.
Now give me a reason, because not only did you say the exact opposite of that an hour ago, it's also false.
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Oh, well that is a reason.
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words can't describe how hard I'm laughing right now
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let's hope for pro gf snipes.
Anyways. I'm going to sleep.
This was well worth staying up for.
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M_Z is not scum at all. Seriously.
So since austin is going to be nuked, let's lynch sinani + vivax shall we?
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And screw flavor, decond used janitor and that makes him confirmed scum until the end of time. I can't reconcile any townie being this stupid.
Not sure what to make of the dreamflower half-claim we got going on in the meantime, tbh.
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Oats is town and you don't need a claim to see that.
Almost as townie as M_Z
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By and far not enough of you are lynching Vivax, btw. If anybody has a compelling argument for why he's not scum, please do speak up. I have not heard a single one. And I can't find one.
In other news, I want to lynch Sharrant too. k.
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Everyone stop responding to Mocsta. Stop giving him attention.
He'll leave eventually. Just ignore him until then.
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Kill mocsta and vivax.
with fire.
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lynch vivax + mocsta
win game
easy
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On April 11 2013 01:13 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 01:05 Restraining Order wrote: Kill mocsta and vivax.
with fire. vivax think you blemblem. complete strudel Considering Vivax think really bad and always wrong, RO not care much.
Yea I'm masoned with oats. He town yo. I even did Plexa breadcrumbs and stuff!
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M_Z and Oats are guaranteed town and our QT is very town loveboaty.
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On April 11 2013 01:23 Restraining Order wrote: PLEASE DO that was @
On April 11 2013 01:22 Mocsta wrote: im going to bed 4 realz now
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On April 11 2013 01:23 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 01:14 Oatsmaster wrote:On April 11 2013 01:13 Sn0_Man wrote:On April 11 2013 01:11 Oatsmaster wrote: Anyway. Im going to claim, cause my role basically makes me confirmed town so yeah.
IMA RECRUITING MASON.
So dudes come into my house uninvited, drink my coffee, steal my dinner plates and shit. Well THAT should be easily verifiable. Wat 2 homies have been drinking ur coffee? MZ and RO. Not gonna post logs. Not bieving til you post logs. You better believe it.
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On April 11 2013 01:27 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 01:23 geript wrote:On April 11 2013 01:14 Oatsmaster wrote:On April 11 2013 01:13 Sn0_Man wrote:On April 11 2013 01:11 Oatsmaster wrote: Anyway. Im going to claim, cause my role basically makes me confirmed town so yeah.
IMA RECRUITING MASON.
So dudes come into my house uninvited, drink my coffee, steal my dinner plates and shit. Well THAT should be easily verifiable. Wat 2 homies have been drinking ur coffee? MZ and RO. Not gonna post logs. Not bieving til you post logs. So all 3 of us are scum? Thats the only explanation otherwise. Of course, and then after this day is over, we'll out all 3 of us because no 4th dude gets added.
#makessense
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On April 11 2013 01:39 Sn0_Man wrote:Oats's last post on austin before M_Z's nuke is: Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 05:35 Oatsmaster wrote:On April 09 2013 05:32 geript wrote: @Oats you just finished a Hydra with Austin right? What's your read on him? I finished Personality with him being scum, me being town. I think there is enough original thought done by him to make him town. I like most of his posting in this game. That don't sound right. My first post of something resembling content in the QT (and I'm paraphrasing from memory here) Me: "hey I wanna lynch austin tomorrow but I cba writing a case cuz I'm lazy, you guys down?" M_Z: "I'm down"
Guess he was more down than he let on!
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On April 11 2013 02:50 Keirathi wrote: Seeing as there's still the possibility of a BC, and I have the Lie Detector to use today, I don't want to claim just yet. BC dayvig is a regular one, with typing-in-thread and stuff.
I'd argue that'd be good for us if it happened.
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Pretty sure that's how it is. The role PM doesn't state otherwise, and that's how dayvigging works.
Note how the assassin clearly states that it's anonymous.
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And here I was starting to hope I could read some posts worth reading while Mocsta is not clogging up the thread with his.... er, posting.
Too much to hope for apparantly.
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On April 11 2013 04:35 yamato77 wrote: How are you confirmed town to each other, exactly? I can do this amazing new technique called "reading people".
You might want to give it a spin one day!
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On April 11 2013 04:54 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 04:51 geript wrote:On April 11 2013 04:46 Restraining Order wrote: Yes it is. Well since you're so sure he's town, then I'll just go ahead and vote for you instead. If it is Dandel Ion, as it appears, just sheep him and kill scum. Fixed that.
You guys should stop being massive jelly about how confirmed town I am, and in how many awesome mason circles I am. I'm starting to blush.
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Butbut, it might be relevant!
Anyways, contributions:
how2solve game - an easy setp-by-step guide
Mindlessly carpetbomb into the following people: obviousone Sinani206 strongandbig sharrant Mocsta Shelvocke Vivax
-> gg easy
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On April 11 2013 06:15 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 06:14 Restraining Order wrote: Butbut, it might be relevant!
Anyways, contributions:
how2solve game - an easy setp-by-step guide
Mindlessly carpetbomb into the following people: obviousone Sinani206 strongandbig sharrant Mocsta Shelvocke Vivax
-> gg easy nooooo im town dont carpet bomb meeeeeeee You're funny.
How about we carpetbomb you last?
That should be a deal we're both happy with. You know - meeting halfway and stuff.
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Bombing list without the now green check in it:
Mindlessly carpetbomb into the following people: obviousone strongandbig sharrant Mocsta Shelvocke Vivax
Decide who of those you want to lynch, I really have little in the way of strong feelings. Well I want Vivax dead, and Mocsta would be nice just so he finally shuts up. But whatever, I can deal with it if it doesn't happen.
See ya tomorrow..
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Decide who to lynch already.
I'm on a double-shift today, so I'm going to lurk some more, but I'll check in before the deadline at least.
I didn't read the thread yet, but it looks like a bunch of nothing is happening. Somebody should take it on him to make this nothing into something. I'll give him free townie cookies for it, so it's totally worth it.
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OO and Sharrant as options. I'll take the obvious one for now. h4h4h4h4.
So yeah.
Shitload of cops up in hea :O
On April 12 2013 07:57 Sn0_Man wrote: So far town has 0 defensive roles and no role checks that aren't full alignment checks (unless mocsta is Capitalist). Awkward.
Geript, thoughts on today's invetion? My name is fortunately not geript, but make an invention that tells us how many mafia players are left in the game.
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I'm kind of feeling an urge to lynch strongandbig. Just so you know.
It's a pretty urgy urge.
Somebody wanna urge around with me?
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On April 12 2013 10:43 austinmcc wrote: Yeah, there's not much time to shoot but I'm serious when I've said all along that the long game favors town and I don't think people should be firing KP all over the place. Perhaps it's dumb to not use the shot, but oh well.
Only thing I'm super considering is shooting obviousone, as a prelynch almost, since it appears that he's going down. But I don't love having stalled this long, only to dick with the double lynch this late in the cycle.
Frankly, I don't love my play during the nuke day as a whole. Not enough scumhunting, too much crappy play and disinterest in game. Just shoot a scummy looking dude imo.
aka just do it.
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On April 12 2013 10:53 Sharrant wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 10:50 Mocsta wrote:On April 12 2013 10:48 Sharrant wrote:On April 12 2013 10:44 Mocsta wrote:On April 12 2013 10:41 Sharrant wrote: The GF's ability that "covers" a player, does it obscure their flip as well? Like, if he made someone appear as a certain role and alignment would the player revert to their actual role and alignment, or would they flip as what he covered them?
This just popped into my head, it may be a little paranoid but whatever:
The Godfather role says he can cover a player "CHANGING THEIR ROLE AND ALIGNMENT" as opposed to the framer which says "CHANGE HOW ONE'S ALIGNMENT APPEARS". This makes me think that it would obscure a flip as well. What if Caller didn't kill a mafia, what if Artanis was made to look like the assassin?
I think I'm getting really paranoid with that one, and BC will probably come in and say their proper alignment is revealed upon flip, but that would really change where we are in the game. Mod confirmed, the GF was a bonus meaning.. he chose a KP role; and had a Killer type Role PM. So I suspect this is paranoid, but we shall see when he responds I guess. Nono, the GF's ability. I know the GF part was a bonus. But Artanis might not have been the Assassin GF. If say, Sn0man (just picking a name at this point) had picked the role Godfather and used the ability to cover Artanis, would Artanis' death reveal his original role, or the role that he was covered with. To be frank, this is reading to me as a last minute WIFOM attempt before lynch deadline. Then you're bad at reading, because I'm dead. It doesn't matter how it happens, I will die. Either I will be lynched, or I will be shot in the night by a townie if I am not lynched, solely because I escaped the lynch. Of that there is no doubt. I'm trying to give the town as much information as I can possibly think of in the hour I have left to post.If the GF has that ability, it would explain a lot of the early game. So I want to make sure that it is either not possible, or that people know that it's something to be awareof. No, GF is not a death-framer.
End of that.
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I actually don't think there's a BC in the game.
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On April 12 2013 11:20 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 11:19 austinmcc wrote: AND WHY DO YOU WANT TO KILL PEOPLE BASED ON THEIR CLAIMS WHEN YOU HAVE CLAIMED TO HAVE A ROLE THAT ROLECHECKS, SO YOU CAN TOTALLY, YOU KNOW, CONFIRM OR CATCH SOMEONE IF YOU'RE SUSPICIOUS OF THEM?
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Cos. i expect to die, like i expected to die night 1. Whether you read my posts or not, i still think i have contributed a lot this game. so fuck off with the caps. If you actually expect to get shot, you are delusional.
If you are town, and I'm havin my doubts here just sayin, you're doing like 90% of scums work for them.
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On April 12 2013 11:46 austinmcc wrote: Someone from magical masonland, has MZ been active in QT both days/today? Giving legitimate thoughts/reads and not just lovefesting? No, he's been pretty afk lately. Some posts here and there, nothing conent-wise important.
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If you super-cool kids lucky, one of you will get mason access now, then you can release logs like a badboy and feel all good and tingly about it.
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On April 12 2013 11:57 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 11:56 Restraining Order wrote: If you super-cool kids lucky, one of you will get mason access now, then you can release logs like a badboy and feel all good and tingly about it. Wont it happen at start of day3? I got masoned at start of the night. Too lazy to check if that's how it keeps happening.
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On April 12 2013 12:03 Sn0_Man wrote: Well. Information.
WHO JOINED THE RECRUITING MASON CIRCLE? I dunno seems like Oats is afk and nobody showed up yet.
THE SUSPENSE
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I have no idea why you guys need to make this game so incredibly annoying to read.
We're fucking crushing scum, and this is still one of the most shitty threads I've ever read.
On April 12 2013 17:27 geript wrote: I don't consider catching a good scum player on D0 playing badly. Would you? Obviously so... by the way, how many scum have you caught this game? Hey, I pushed and/or lynched 3 scum so far, and you still love to call me mafia for no fucking reason. NO REASON AT ALL. You have no fucking place in the world where you can use arguments like this so please kindly shut the fuck up with a cherry on top.
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Ah yes, you of course are the second problem this game.
I never seriously called you scum, I just asked for a policy-lynch on you. I thought that was pretty clear. As clear as possible without me outright saying it.
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On April 12 2013 20:21 Mocsta wrote: No it wasnt clear and a policy lynch with only 2 confirmed scum flips on day2 is silly to advocate.
if u want to shit on geript for "I have no idea why you guys need to make this game so incredibly annoying to read."
Why dont you show us how its done, and let us all know who the remaining scum team is. What?
I have made my case on Vivax. Who is who the remaining scumteam is. (or it's snb)
Which would be abundantly clear if you actually read what I say, instead of pretending that you read it and then spewing random BS about how little value it has.
... I'll go back to not reading your posts. Life was better when I didn't.
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Mason is a pretty townie role to pick. For sneaky rolefishing, there are better roles (rolecop, extractor, DT would be expected to be picked before him tbh)
Plus, if that was the intention, oats failed pretty bad at it, I had my role publicly claimed already and M_Z never warned us about this nuking business beforehand. So that didn't work out so well then, lol.
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It's probably just that nobody else here fulfills the Minimum Swag Requirement to get into our Kool Kids Klub.
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snb should check Shelvocke as it would give the most information.
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Should still check Shelvocke.
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On April 13 2013 02:08 geript wrote: Why do you idiots think I even could be scum? Do you think that Artanis case vs me and my case vs VE was a weird triple bus situation? You people are dumb beyond measure. Well, you are calling me scum all the time with an even more obvious situation, so what does that make you?
It's even worse concerning me, because I also lynched OO...
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On April 13 2013 02:10 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2013 02:05 Sn0_Man wrote:On April 13 2013 02:00 Keirathi wrote:On April 13 2013 01:56 Sn0_Man wrote: Wat about shelvocke?
PS: M_Z is hard confirmed green unless godfather because SnB/M_Z is too many scum (assuming one is BM/Caller) and they both have roles that aren't traitor. Maybe I'll check Shelvocke instead. Also, it should be noted that any red check should be lynched tomorrow, no questions asked. If that person ends up not flipping scum, that means that RO is using framing and therefor is scum. Lynch him the next day. Well, red checks can also mean the checker is scum but that is fine because we know who he is as well. This game is so nigh-unloseable that I want to invent KP just to speed it up. KP is the "faster" option. But really, its almost always better to play it safe. Right now its either 12-1, or 11-2. Assuming scum still has an active KP role to use (which might not be the case), at most 3 people should die tonight. Which gives us 2 more lynches and nights (at least) before LYLO. No need to get hasty, especially when we apparently have so many investigation roles. Every extra KP used at this point just makes us that much more likely to lose because people are impatient. I don't think a compuslive day-justicevig gun would be a bad invention.
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On April 13 2013 02:13 geript wrote: Meh, I don't remember 1 positive thing you've done so far, but I haven't read your filter. I'm buying the different # pick theory. That is not a point in your favor.
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And I'm being super-extra nice with that wording
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On April 13 2013 02:15 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2013 02:13 Restraining Order wrote:On April 13 2013 02:10 Keirathi wrote:On April 13 2013 02:05 Sn0_Man wrote:On April 13 2013 02:00 Keirathi wrote:On April 13 2013 01:56 Sn0_Man wrote: Wat about shelvocke?
PS: M_Z is hard confirmed green unless godfather because SnB/M_Z is too many scum (assuming one is BM/Caller) and they both have roles that aren't traitor. Maybe I'll check Shelvocke instead. Also, it should be noted that any red check should be lynched tomorrow, no questions asked. If that person ends up not flipping scum, that means that RO is using framing and therefor is scum. Lynch him the next day. Well, red checks can also mean the checker is scum but that is fine because we know who he is as well. This game is so nigh-unloseable that I want to invent KP just to speed it up. KP is the "faster" option. But really, its almost always better to play it safe. Right now its either 12-1, or 11-2. Assuming scum still has an active KP role to use (which might not be the case), at most 3 people should die tonight. Which gives us 2 more lynches and nights (at least) before LYLO. No need to get hasty, especially when we apparently have so many investigation roles. Every extra KP used at this point just makes us that much more likely to lose because people are impatient. I don't think a compuslive day-justicevig gun would be a bad invention. Maybe, if it was given to a suspect that we aren't checking tonight. Like Shelvocke? And as long as he listens to town on who to shoot. I still think its silly to throw away townies just for a check though. Why not just have a check? :o Because there's a dude that flipped having "gf" as a role extra. Nothing to say other mafia can't get that addition too.
Imagine you end up with 10 people and greenchecks on all of them. Then you suddenly wish you had a gun.
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On April 13 2013 02:25 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2013 02:18 Restraining Order wrote:On April 13 2013 02:15 Keirathi wrote:On April 13 2013 02:13 Restraining Order wrote:On April 13 2013 02:10 Keirathi wrote:On April 13 2013 02:05 Sn0_Man wrote:On April 13 2013 02:00 Keirathi wrote:On April 13 2013 01:56 Sn0_Man wrote: Wat about shelvocke?
PS: M_Z is hard confirmed green unless godfather because SnB/M_Z is too many scum (assuming one is BM/Caller) and they both have roles that aren't traitor. Maybe I'll check Shelvocke instead. Also, it should be noted that any red check should be lynched tomorrow, no questions asked. If that person ends up not flipping scum, that means that RO is using framing and therefor is scum. Lynch him the next day. Well, red checks can also mean the checker is scum but that is fine because we know who he is as well. This game is so nigh-unloseable that I want to invent KP just to speed it up. KP is the "faster" option. But really, its almost always better to play it safe. Right now its either 12-1, or 11-2. Assuming scum still has an active KP role to use (which might not be the case), at most 3 people should die tonight. Which gives us 2 more lynches and nights (at least) before LYLO. No need to get hasty, especially when we apparently have so many investigation roles. Every extra KP used at this point just makes us that much more likely to lose because people are impatient. I don't think a compuslive day-justicevig gun would be a bad invention. Maybe, if it was given to a suspect that we aren't checking tonight. Like Shelvocke? And as long as he listens to town on who to shoot. I still think its silly to throw away townies just for a check though. Why not just have a check? :o Because there's a dude that flipped having "gf" as a role extra. Nothing to say other mafia can't get that addition too. Imagine you end up with 10 people and greenchecks on all of them. Then you suddenly wish you had a gun. The reason I'm not quite as worried about this is that I think there's a decent chance our last scum is between one of Mocsta and S&B. Why, you ask? Because Sharrant had a good point. Why did scum pick Assassin without a way to check roles? Did they just hope to get enough roleclaims to keep shooting? That is possible, but it seems like a poor picking strategy as scum to rely on town to do something that it doesn't necessarily want to do. Also, I have no reason to believe that different theme character classes can get the same bonuses. At least not at this point. Assassin was probably the "gangster" archetype. Neither capitalist or DT would be. *MAYBE* they would for some reason get a GF bonus, but I kind of doubt it. I am aware of that argument and how it implicates snb.
Less so mocsta though, capitalist is not a role that can even get a bonus afaik. Since it's "multi-purpose", and not in one of the bonus-having categories.
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On April 13 2013 03:25 Sn0_Man wrote: Who joined the PM network? Oats you here?
I'm assuming with Kurumi around you know now? We have a new friend, I can attest.
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On April 13 2013 03:26 Restraining Order wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2013 03:25 Sn0_Man wrote: Who joined the PM network? Oats you here?
I'm assuming with Kurumi around you know now? We have a new friend, I can attest. Oh, and it's Keirathi.
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On April 13 2013 03:47 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2013 03:26 Restraining Order wrote:On April 13 2013 03:26 Restraining Order wrote:On April 13 2013 03:25 Sn0_Man wrote: Who joined the PM network? Oats you here?
I'm assuming with Kurumi around you know now? We have a new friend, I can attest. Oh, and it's Keirathi. Should have invited Bill Murray. You are aware that the adds are random and there's nothing oats can do about it yes?
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In general, if somebody lynches a scum without giving any reason for it, he's actually more likely to be town, since if he was mafia, he'd try to milk his bus for towncred as much as possible. + Show Spoiler +Kinda like Mr. Geript is milking his push/stuff on VE for max towncred for pages now.
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On April 13 2013 04:44 geript wrote: Lol... At least I know who to shoot. Dis gun be good
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I don't mind getting the gun.
No matter what, it's a win-win situation for me, then. Either I win game for u scrubs, or I don't need to read the thread anymore. I'm down for either.
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It's never too late for wifom
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On April 13 2013 10:48 Bill Murray wrote: i just wanted to see your reaction im not sending any kill in? well, considering:
You must shoot every night that you are alive. Good luck with that.
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Lynching Vivax now.
Could lynch snb too.
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sinani says his bonus only applies to the double-lynch (2-shot instead of 1). Which sounds like the town bonus, mafia would have probably gotten 2 rigs, I guess.
He has a green check on him.
He didn't vote-rig away from their CPR doc.
Confirmed scum tried to get him lynched.
I'm inclined to believe he is town. The lynch should be between Vivax and snb.
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On April 13 2013 22:57 Restraining Order wrote: sinani says his bonus only applies to the double-lynch (2-shot instead of 1). Which sounds like the town bonus, mafia would have probably gotten 2 rigs, I guess.
He has a green check on him.
He didn't vote-rig away from their CPR doc.
Confirmed scum tried to get him lynched.
I'm inclined to believe he is town. The lynch should be between Vivax and snb. Actually, we can just lynch both.
hint hint.
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On April 13 2013 23:01 yamato77 wrote: I would rather have him use his vote rig on the leading candidate so we can not worry about that power that's fine we can doublelynch tomorrow too. Doesn't change anything in the end.
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On April 13 2013 23:01 yamato77 wrote: I would rather have him use his vote rig on the leading candidate so we can not worry about that power I thought about it some more, and there is actually no reason to make him do his pseudo-rig today, instead of tomorrow.
The line of thinking I had there was - if he has a gf bonus he could still be mafia and then I was thinking that mafia would likely get the 2-shot bonus on the voterig instead of the double-lynch.
However, those are 2 bonuses. So they are mutually exlusive. Which means, that even if you are worried about him being mafia still (which I admit I'm not), he still only has one voterig.
Math: (bitches love math) 9-1 today doublelynch and NK (let's humor this and say we double mislynch, which I find unlikely, but ok.) 6-1 make sinani voterig the leading candidate, let's say he doesn't and claims scum and stuff (NOTE: if his bonus indeed was gf, he wouldn't have a second doublelynch) 4-1 try to lynch sinani, he voterigs it away 2-1 poor powerless sinani that has claimed scum previously against two furious townies.
There is no mathematically possible way for a scum sinani to still win this game. It is unneccesary to worry about him.
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On April 13 2013 23:51 strongandbig wrote: Yammo is vanilla townie
If deconduo was scum janitor we could be looking for a traitor, otherwise I guess we are forced to conclude he really was a townie who used janitor night 1
Why do ppl want to lynch me? This is like the first time that most of my scum reads have actually been correct
Also lynching one of our investigative roles when we don't have to seems pretty dumb. Whether I'm town or scum, anyone I give a green check to is not scum
Also also BM not wanting to shoot me is not alignment indicative towards me, because if he shoots me and I'm not scum then BM gets auto lynched Why did you investigate M_Z on n1?
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Pretty sure that was Oats, dud.
Anyways, snb I'll give you 5 more minutes to answer my simple question.
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Okay.
On April 10 2013 07:04 strongandbig wrote: if i were a vig i would probably shoot oo
or maybe i am a vig and have shot him already! scum you will never know the truth
On April 10 2013 08:44 strongandbig wrote: obviousone still shelvocke both for reasons expressed earlier in my filter as well as by others
maybe meapak, he's acting as i would expect a pretty demoralized scummer to act (ie, not playing or defending himself) and i would expect scum to be pretty demoralized after that d1
but basically i'm expecting so much stuff to happen at the end of this night phase that i haven't seen much reason to be super active until we know what's happening
On April 10 2013 08:45 strongandbig wrote: mocsta what do you think of obviousone? for that matter what do you think of sharrant?
no need for a filter dive impressions are fine
The only mention he made here of M_Z before investigating him
maybe meapak, he's acting as i would expect a pretty demoralized scummer to act (ie, not playing or defending himself) and i would expect scum to be pretty demoralized after that d1 That's a pretty weak line of suspicion.
He said far more about OO, in a far 'stronger' way. Prime example:
if i were a vig i would probably shoot oo etc.
This begs the question: Why didn't he investigate OO? Looks more like he didn't actually want OO lynched. His "push" on what is painted as his strongest scumread on the following day was decidedly weak too. "I'm voting OO, okay?" and things of that amount of impact, nothing actually substantial.
Now, plenty of people pushed OO/Sharrant lynches for relatively weak reasons (me included), but you'd expect more from a guy that has said his strongest scumread is on him.
How I see that situation - snb wants to have OO as top scum read in case OO flips. snb does not actually want to push town into lynching OO though - his role is very valuable KP. He just tries to look like it. In case snb flips instead, OO looks better for scum "pushing" him.
A town copandbig in that situation would not have investigated M_Z over OO. A town cop in the position snb was in (credibility-wise) would have made sure of OO (who, as a high placing player on the draft list, is very likely to have a really strong role for his alignment) instead of some guy he's mildly suspicious of.
Instead, he went for a weak read, giving him a 'safe' towncheck to throw out, while giving him what he really wanted out of it - information about M_Z's role.
snb is a bad cop, not a good cop.
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In case that's not clear, and to make it clear for certain people that don't read the thead (totally not looking at mocsta here), those are posts he did during n1.
Make sure to read his filter yourself to check his subsequent actions!
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On April 14 2013 01:17 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2013 00:22 Restraining Order wrote:Okay.
On April 10 2013 07:04 strongandbig wrote: if i were a vig i would probably shoot oo
or maybe i am a vig and have shot him already! scum you will never know the truth On April 10 2013 08:44 strongandbig wrote: obviousone still shelvocke both for reasons expressed earlier in my filter as well as by others
maybe meapak, he's acting as i would expect a pretty demoralized scummer to act (ie, not playing or defending himself) and i would expect scum to be pretty demoralized after that d1
but basically i'm expecting so much stuff to happen at the end of this night phase that i haven't seen much reason to be super active until we know what's happening On April 10 2013 08:45 strongandbig wrote: mocsta what do you think of obviousone? for that matter what do you think of sharrant?
no need for a filter dive impressions are fine The only mention he made here of M_Z before investigating him maybe meapak, he's acting as i would expect a pretty demoralized scummer to act (ie, not playing or defending himself) and i would expect scum to be pretty demoralized after that d1 That's a pretty weak line of suspicion. He said far more about OO, in a far 'stronger' way. Prime example: if i were a vig i would probably shoot oo etc. This begs the question: Why didn't he investigate OO? Looks more like he didn't actually want OO lynched. His "push" on what is painted as his strongest scumread on the following day was decidedly weak too. "I'm voting OO, okay?" and things of that amount of impact, nothing actually substantial. Now, plenty of people pushed OO/Sharrant lynches for relatively weak reasons (me included), but you'd expect more from a guy that has said his strongest scumread is on him. How I see that situation - snb wants to have OO as top scum read in case OO flips. snb does not actually want to push town into lynching OO though - his role is very valuable KP. He just tries to look like it. In case snb flips instead, OO looks better for scum "pushing" him. A town copandbig in that situation would not have investigated M_Z over OO. A town cop in the position snb was in (credibility-wise) would have made sure of OO (who, as a high placing player on the draft list, is very likely to have a really strong role for his alignment) instead of some guy he's mildly suspicious of. Instead, he went for a weak read, giving him a 'safe' towncheck to throw out, while giving him what he really wanted out of it - information about M_Z's role. snb is a bad cop, not a good cop. Look at when I first brought up OO when I was trying to get sharrant to post more. Was OO under any suspicion at that point? If he was I don't remember it. The reason I was hesitant was because I made a superficially similar case on OO in red team mafia and he was town. But if I'm his scum buddy there's absolutely no motivation or upside for me to focus more attention on him during day 1 when both VE and artanis are prime thread suspects begging to be lynched. It's just stupid play, and I thought if there was one thing we established in red team it's that I may be bad at scum hunting but I'm not stupid. However, I was telling the truth night one - if I was a vig I would have shot him. However, that makes him a bad check - I thought the odds were decent that someone else would actually do it.Also a general rule as a blue - never talk about who you're actually going to act on. It's just begging for a roleblock if you're right and it's letting scum know they don't have to worry about you if you're wrong. Like, I can't believe you're actually using "he didn't check the guy he was talking about that night" as a reason I'm scum.
Under that assumption, how exactly does he make a better shot, then? In that case, you doublestack the KP. I don't buy it.
Yes I use the fact that you didn't check OO after saying you'd shoot him. Cop checks and shots use the same thought process for target selection, and it makes no sense to say "I would totally have shot and risk a doublestack, but I wouldn't check a guy that might maybe die"
Look, if we're not supposed to lynch you today, Who do you suggest should be lynched instead of you? How about you talk about that instead.
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FWIW, the same argument was used on the justice vig pick. And see how that turned out..
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On April 14 2013 03:47 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2013 03:43 Restraining Order wrote: FWIW, the same argument was used on the justice vig pick. And see how that turned out.. True. I didn't really think about that. But my problem is...how do you turn parity cop into a scum-friendly role at all? Make it a role cop? I guess that's possible, but it seems to completely change the role, rather than just changing some minor mechanics. I guess its possible, though. A caveat is that both of the scum who have had role-based bonuses, their role name has changed. Not sure, tbh. I don't see a way without completely changing how the role works. Like, not just an add-on like assassin had, or a flip-around like JV. More of an actual change in the core mechanics.
It's a shame the flips are so minimalistic in this game, it would have been interesting to see how other roles change.
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On April 14 2013 04:42 strongandbig wrote:+ Show Spoiler [dead people] +
Sn0_man -- Inventor 1,1
obviousone -- CPR doctor3**
Raynpelikoneet -- DEAD UNKNOWN 5, 1
Visceraeyes -- NRA Member 10, 10
Caller -- Showtime UNKNOWN 2**
Meapak_ziphh -- America 6,3
artanis[xp] -- Assassin 11, X sharrant -- Vanilla (denied Detective) 11, X
gonzaw -- Jack 8, X Austinmcc -- Copycat 8, X (green check from Keirathi NK)
Palmar -- suspected Emperor 8, X
billmurray -- (In)Justice Vigilante
Deconduo -- claimed Janitor UNKNOWN 8, X
Sinani206 -- claimed Vote Rigger, green check from Keirathi invention - can only be scum if keir is making up checks or if there are two GFs, which is unlikely, could be traitor until he uses one of his powers Geript -- Vanilla (denied NRA Member) - can't be traitor, wouldn't know NRA had been taken above him, could be scum strongandbig -- claimed detective - can't be traitor as DT is confirmed taken restraining order -- claimed framer, no checks (as a claimed framer, must be considered immune to checks) Keirathi -- claimed NKVD, green-checked austin & sinani, red-checked BM so probably town Mocsta -- claimed Capitalist, green check from vivax - not traitor because of claimed shot on decon - only scum if vivax is traitor making up checks Shelvocke -- checked as vanilla by mocsta, denied DT -- could be vanilla scum ; wouldn't know DT was taken, so denied claim would have had to be a big gamble if he's traitor but also possible Vivax -- claimed parity cop, green-checked austin and mocsta Oatmaster -- confirmed recruiter mason - could be scum, can't be traitor Yamato77 -- claimed vanilla (denied Justice Vigilante) - VT check from snb - can't be scum unless i am, could be traitor scum candidates in order of my estimated likelihood, assuming there's not two godfather bonuses RO Vivax Geript? Oatsmaster? This doesn't really make sense tho traitor candidatesSinani Yamato RO? Recommended actionsIt's highly unlikely that sinani is the remaining scum, since keirathi would have to be making up checks. However, Sinani's play doesn't make me feel super townie about him. If sinani uses his role, we know he isn't traitor. However, IMO a double lynch today is not good for town, since it just decreases the amount of time we have for our investigative roles to work on everyone. Therefore, we should vote for Sinani, and he should use his vote rigging power to lynch RO. This way if he's lying about his role he dies, and if he's not lying then town can absolutely confirm his role. If he rigs the vote to anyone other than RO, he should be shot or insta-lynched the next phase, and he will no longer have his vote-rig to wriggle out of the lynch. RO should be our real lynch for today. As a claimed framer, we can't trust checks on him, and the safest way to a town victory appears to be through mechanics. IMO he's a better lynch than any of the investigative roles at this time and better than anyone with a check on them, which leaves just him, Geript, and Oatsmaster. Out of those three I think RO is by far the most likely to be scum. weak stuff.
You're not even glancing at my play (prolly cause you know you can't find anything on me), you're just sitting there saying "RO is a framer therefor he must be scum!" And that's the extent of your 'arguments'.
Not to mention your post is choke-full of untruths.
Keirathi COULDN'T have made up the check on sinani, since sno gave him the invention and knows pretty well how it works.
Keirathi red-checking BM is not actually alignment indicative. At that point, BM was already guaranteed scum thanks to his role. If anything, the check is slightly scummy-ish because, as was said multiple times beforehand, BM's role showed it's alignment automatically. So checking him was actually bad play, but whatevs.
Double-lynch today does absolutely NOTHING to decrease the amount of time we have. 9-1 6-1 4-1 2-1 vs 9-1 7-1 5-1 3-1 Exact same amount of time.
Sinani activating doublelynch will confirm his role just as well.
As Framer, checks on me would actually be the ONLY thing you could trust. For I am the only person I cannot make appear differently.
So, your setup-talk is full of bull. And you don't have any arguments outside of your setup talk.
Why are you not acting like you're suspicious of Shelvocke? He claimed VT going for showtime (which is another instance of you speaking the untruth btw), and the only check on him was the vanilla rolecheck. He claimed that waaaay after caller was confirmed showtime, so it's not even hard. Which means he can still be goon (Caller confirmed town yo) or even traitor (appears as VT)
It's like you're not even thinking about your own arguments.
I'm feelin pretty good about my vote.
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On April 14 2013 13:43 Shelvocke wrote: Can someone post the mason logs? Tell you what, I'm going to post the logs once you have shared all of the following within the day:
Thoughts on all remaining players Who you want to lynch and why Who you think is scum and why And 2 mystery topics that you find important but none of us have really talked about/acknowledged yet.
It's in your pooooower.
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I still think sinani should activate the double-lynch today.
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The most important lynch today is snb.
Dunno if sinani is even here to make it a doublelynch, so you should consider moving your vote to him.
Actually, I just noticed we should probably not even double-lynch, since Oats is fully cruising for modkill.
Let's lynch snb only.
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Lynching scum is never stupid.
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Vivax is fine as a lynch, I'm not going to argue against that one.
But I'd honestly prefer snb right now.
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And I would find it very friendly of you guys if people would sheep me more.
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1) Oats is getting modkilled anyways 2) rigger doublelynch doesn't give you two votes, just the two leading candidates are getting lynched. 3) both vivax and snb are superior lynches 4) Oats is getting modkilled anyways 5) I'm still pretty sure he's town. 5.5) and getting modkilled anyways
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On April 15 2013 09:07 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2013 09:05 Mocsta wrote: I dont think oats is getting modkilled.
He made a post about 28hrs ago.
I cant believe we are in such a situation.
Geript is fixated on Keirathi
Oats is missing in action
Yam does nothing, but expects everyone to sheep him
SnB/Vivax are just butt fucking each other
Shevlocke my good I just want to lynch him for doing nothing ALL game.
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Just do SnB at this point in the game, he stil wants to lynch Shelvocke
and wants RO gone, when i already explained that VE/art trying to nail RO early game, indicates RO is confirmed town.
Ppl get confused witht he use of 'bus".. bus is intention to lynch... whereas ppl are actually thinking of 'distancing"
you dont understand the word "confirmed" Still waiting for any actual reason at all to suspect me. I know it's hard to find them cause I'm super-obvious town, but at least TRY.
I bet it's gonna be a fun read.
Somehow your BS and stupidity got this town to lynch vivax instead (who granted also has a good chance of being scum, and plays an even worse game than you, so it's k) today, doesn't mean it's gonna happen again.
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His whole "push" on OO is saying he'd shoot him during the nightphase, then not actually checking OO in the night, then a whole bunch of nothing, and then just a vote on OO + Sharrant.
I don't know how you give somebody a townread on that.
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*bandwagon
BAND
not bad It's actually quite good.
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On April 15 2013 10:26 sinani206 wrote: i rigged my vote onto strongandbig. eh, now that oats showed up, you coulda double-lynched 'em.
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can you still change it to double-lynch?
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double lynch~ double lynch~
sinani plz
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meh lets try this shit
I still dislike snb heavily.
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On April 15 2013 11:58 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2013 11:57 Mocsta wrote: im playing sc2. gimme a fucking break snb
u done nothing all game, and now act all high n mighty what ive done all game is not be a retard no you have not. not at all.
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just be happy I love last minute voteswitches so much
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also im really fucking tired lol
flip pls
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I'd like to say wp, but that would be a straight-up lie.
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Look we can talk more about this postgame if you really want to talk about who annoyed me the most in this game.
There were quite a few annoying people, and enough REALLY annoying people, so it'll be fun, trust me.
But; post-game.
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meh fuck flips going to sleep
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This all looks incredibly pointless.
Not even gonna bother remotely looking into Keir until it's LYLO.
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hmm
Lynching Vivax is a given.
I'm not yet as sure as I'd like to be on who to use the second lynch on, honestly. I'll look into it soon-ish
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Yeah let's do vivax + yamato.
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On April 16 2013 21:03 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 20:45 Restraining Order wrote: hmm
Lynching Vivax is a given.
I'm not yet as sure as I'd like to be on who to use the second lynch on, honestly. I'll look into it soon-ish I'm curious what stops you from lynching Shelvocke rather than a guy who is most likely cop. I can be persuaded to lynch Shelvocke AND a guy who is maybe cop.
double-lynches are the shit.
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On April 17 2013 01:41 Mocsta wrote: Anywho.
when vivax/oats/geript been voted.. they act like bitches to avoid a lynch
yam just throws ad-hom, and asks for pity
shelv is just non-existant, so yeah. happy witht hat
i STILL want to know why sinani activated double lynch but why wouldn't he?
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On April 17 2013 01:49 Mocsta wrote: RO,
cos its like he doesnt pay attention to the game at all; i just would have thought he would give us notice
because witht eh vote rig.. he made it clear he wouldnt just do what we requested. I mean why wouldn't he activate double-lynch
we're 7-1 atm if all mislynches -> 4-1 -> 2-1 LYLO No doublelynch: ->5-1 -> 3-1 MYLO
doublelynch gives us more town KP and bitches love town KP. sinani's being a bro here.
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want to lynch vivax for being scum want to lynch yamato for being an emo martyr and useless want to lynch shelvie for being absolute balls-useless
two lynches just ain't cutting it.
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whatever, it's not worth arguing over semantics like that, but if u want u can pretend it says just "emo" and not "emo martyr"
feel better now?
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On April 17 2013 02:38 yamato77 wrote: The question you should,d ask yourself is whether or not my behavior this game is more in line with what you expect from town yamato or scum yamato.
I think people have this misconception of me that I stay active and spammy the whole game, which is untrue. The behavior people are calling me scum for is adequately, and truthfully explained by the fact that arguing with people like Oats/Vivax/Mocsta all game is not enjoyable.
I guess I deserve to get lynched for it or whatever, but critical thinking about this situation could avoid town losing due to my lack of motivation. I have plenty of critical thinking and no matter how critically I think about it, your excuse for not trying is that you never do
Try to look me in the eyes and say that this is not the exact same shit you'd say as scum. It's not sufficient, and no level of "critical thinking" on my end can make it go away.
So we're left with scummy behavior and an excuse for it that is null at best.
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On April 17 2013 03:14 geript wrote: I want to make a very simple point here: Mocsta -- 28 Geript -- 18 Oats -- 17 Yamato -- 14 Vivax -- 10 Shelvocke -- 3 Sinani -- 3
The 3 most inactive players have been Vivax, Shelvocke and Sinani. We have a green check on Sinani and Sinani is a known lurker. Shelvocke we have no clue who he is. These are our best lynches IMO. I actually did look at the same thing just earlier, haha.
It's not just the green-check, the sinani situation will solve itself by tomorrow.
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You clearly have never had your dick in sand.
Although I guess it hurts after a while, and it's also a pain to clean.
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And, well my townreads are still mobsta, gayript, oatsmister and sinani.
Which leaves out 3 people, between which we're already lynching. Right now there's a lot of bickering about which of shelvie and yammie gets the honor of getting lynched today, which doesn't really matter that much to me.
In fact I'm just going to switch to shelvocke without further explanation. Because I can.
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I've made association cases against vivax before it was cool
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On April 17 2013 05:22 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 11:58 geript wrote: Lol. Vivax totes scum.
Town Vivax = crazy, invested, doesn't care how he posts, doesn't give up random stupid ideas lightly and has lots of random stupid ideas Scum Vivax = semi sane, lazy, drops crazy ideas, tries to look normal
Vivax not reading = lazy Vivax proposing different lynch # picks to look active and drops it when blasted about it = scum Vivax not showboating about being right on lynch # pick idea = scum Vivax trying to make sense = scum
Sn0 calling Vivax worst mislynch ever = protecting scum buddy
GG town. Sheep Geript ftw This is the best argument, IMO. If you want to prove this, I would be more convinced. Do note that I want vivax/shelvocke to die today, and my votes reflect that. It would help me greatly if you could look at vivax' latest case on geript and tell me what you see.
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On April 17 2013 05:29 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 04:47 Vivax wrote:Why geript could be scum massive push against keirathi at end of night before he nukes BM: + Show Spoiler +On April 13 2013 03:55 geript wrote: People should reread Keirathi's filter again with consideration of the flips so far. On April 13 2013 04:18 geript wrote: Just read his damn filter. Tell me if his D1 filter looks towny at all. On April 13 2013 04:37 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 03:53 Keirathi wrote: Bleh, I got drafted into helping my mom in the garden today. So I probably wont be around for a few more hours. Some quick comments:
1) Artanis: His recent play feels more townie, and I thought he was a coinflip at best even before gonzaw died. Not sure why Caller (apparently) killed him. I (still) don't like him as a lynch candidate today even if Caller didn't kill him.
2) Caller: I hate everything about his play, but the fact remains that if Caller is Showtime! and used it now, on Artanis or all people, just doesn't make much sense from scum. Possible, but not likely scum IMO.
3) VE: He still hasn't done his classic scum tell that I mentioned, but he's also not done ANYTHING. With geript claiming that NRA was taken already b spot 6, VE is a valid option for having chosen it (Shelvocke too, since he's obviously a smurf of someone who is at least familiar with older games). I'm just not sure about him at all...if he did take NRA as scum, his play would make a lot of sense. Maybe we lynch him.
4) Shelvocke: MZ + austin had good points. I could get behind a Shelvocke lynch.
5) Sinani: Very possibly scum. I pointed out his weird "playing it safe" quote, and also how he described S&B as trying to direct the thread to justify his vote. He then came back to neither answer my questions nor expound on anything else (including his own reads), just to ask gonzaw his role and tell gonzaw to shoot BM. If not lynch today, then tomorrow.
Anyways, be back in a few hours. Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 23:51 Keirathi wrote:On April 09 2013 21:38 Palmar wrote: And I wrote the assassin and nra = scum analysis. I hate everything about this so much. That entire post was just you rehashing things that had already been said. Geript had told us why VE was probably NRA and probably scum. Yours was just why NRA was probably scum, didn't include who it was. And EVERYONE had already concluded that gonzaw was shot by a scum assassin. Your entire contribution was...nothing new at all. Why are you trying to buy town cred for that, rofl. Funny the 180 on VE hunh. I completely outed VE as NRA and scum but Kei was only "maybe" interested in lynching VE. Tell me that's not fishy. Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 12:25 Keirathi wrote:Anyways: raynpelikoneet: I just got out of RED Team (click link for his filter) with a town rayn, so my expectations of his town play are still in the forefront of my mind. And some very obvious things aren't matching up: 1) Progression of reads: I'm not going to quote every instance, but something really sticks out to me: + Show Spoiler +On March 26 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: What's with the ninja vote marv? On March 26 2013 08:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 08:11 marvellosity wrote:On March 26 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: What's with the ninja vote marv? Just curious how you'd react given you totally overreacted to prplhz. I can join Hapa on his policy lynch though, so you're in luck ^^ Why do you assume i was serious in the first place? On March 26 2013 08:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 08:23 Dandel Ion wrote:On March 26 2013 08:19 cDgCorazon wrote: Rayn goes back to the shadows when he is called out on his argument.
Why are you scummy Rayn? Is he, though? Maybe that's all just in your head. A good question. After all it was prplhz who disappeared, not me. On March 26 2013 10:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: S&B: I never said i wasn't serious with my vote. I asked marv why does he assume i am serious. Something he also failed to answer. On March 26 2013 10:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:The reason i asked the question from marv was this post: Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 08:11 marvellosity wrote:On March 26 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: What's with the ninja vote marv? Just curious how you'd react given you totally overreacted to prplhz. I can join Hapa on his policy lynch though, so you're in luck ^^ ##Unvote ##Vote: ObviousOne He had voted me because i "overreacted" to prplhz. How does me asking "what's with the ninja vote?" make him change his vote to a stupid policy lynch? On March 26 2013 10:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: On top of that marv & Keir seem to be quite defensive about prplhz. Why not let the guy answer himself? On March 26 2013 21:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:I have one problem with marv. He pressure voted me early on in the game. When i asked his what's up with the ninja vote, he posted this: Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 08:11 marvellosity wrote:On March 26 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: What's with the ninja vote marv? Just curious how you'd react given you totally overreacted to prplhz. I can join Hapa on his policy lynch though, so you're in luck ^^ ##Unvote ##Vote: ObviousOne If he really thought i overreacted to prplhz why wouldn't he pressure me more? Was the "what's up with the ninja vote" somekinda secret townie answer i gave? If i was marv and i thought someone overreacted to something and i was already pressuring him, i would definitely keep the pressure on to try to find more clues about their alignment. Here he just completely drops the issue and changes his vote to a policy target (which i do not see serving any purpose in finding mafia). On March 27 2013 01:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 01:13 marvellosity wrote:On March 27 2013 01:11 cDgCorazon wrote:On March 27 2013 00:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: Holy crap Corazon is failing hard to even read my filter. I read your filter and all you've done is attack 6 people, all of which have been under pressure from others. I read your filter bro. Get some better defense. The fact is that rayn has brought new things to the table too; his analysis/vote of OO's second post, or Oats' apparent contradiction with the prplhz/Dandel cases - and indeed something came of this. Being active, suspicious of many people, and aggressively questioning are not what I think of as mafia characteristics. Besides this i havn't attacked people. I questioned marv and Keirathi. Keirathi told me why i was wrong in prplhz-defending-thingy, i agreed i was wrong and let it go. I questioned marv because i wanted him to do stuff. I agree with his reads/observations when he presented them and it makes me think he is town for now. He still didn't answer my question about the start of the game but because everyone seems to think it's irrelevant it probably is and i'm not going to sidetrack the discussion by screaming about it over and over again. Try again Cora. What you'll see is a direct thought process and how rayn's read progresses. He played like this for the entire game: see something he thinks is scummy, questions it, discusses it, and then either votes or moves on to something else. Or even just see something he finds scummy, dissects it, and makes a case. He's trying to figure out the game, and engaging people trying to get comments on his points/comment on their points/doing whatever he can to help town. Now let's look at this game: + Show Spoiler +On April 04 2013 22:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:Forced VT claim: is an attempt to understand whether "key roles" are in the game. The action itself should not be used to establish individuals as confirmed town/scum. The problem with this is that town has no way of knowing who is lying and who is telling the truth. Scum know who is lying and who is telling the truth. The information we gain is only reliable for mafia at the start of the game. It gives mafia more opportunities to fakeclaim, bullshit, or tell the truth if it benefits them the most, and make plans that revolve around those things. And you have no way of figuring out which is it. If mafia is wise and plays it right there is no way town is going to win anything from this compared to mafia. RO: Thoughts on this? On April 04 2013 22:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 22:48 Restraining Order wrote:On April 04 2013 22:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 04 2013 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:Forced VT claim: is an attempt to understand whether "key roles" are in the game. The action itself should not be used to establish individuals as confirmed town/scum. The problem with this is that town has no way of knowing who is lying and who is telling the truth. Scum know who is lying and who is telling the truth. The information we gain is only reliable for mafia at the start of the game. It gives mafia more opportunities to fakeclaim, bullshit, or tell the truth if it benefits them the most, and make plans that revolve around those things. And you have no way of figuring out which is it. If mafia is wise and plays it right there is no way town is going to win anything from this compared to mafia. RO: Thoughts on this? Nothing I have not already said. You seem to be disagreeing with me here. What is wrong in what i said? On April 05 2013 04:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: 3 scum reads:
Caller, RO, Oats. On April 05 2013 11:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 11:08 Mocsta wrote:On April 05 2013 10:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 10:47 Mocsta wrote:On April 05 2013 10:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: and yeah, RO is scum i think. Can you walk me through this please. From what I saw, the only build up you had to claiming RO is scum is: On April 05 2013 03:28 Restraining Order wrote: Ok, you can keep townhunting them townreads if you want, I sent in my numbers already. They shouldn't be too obtrusive to whatever nonsense you'll come up with, so it's okay. Where I am having trouble following you is: I dont see how *only* scum would would or could make a statement like this. RO is failing to contribute to anything at all. See his filter. No more need to be said. Good kill on D1/N1. I still dont follow. What has there been to contribute? We have been talking about plans; just because someone disagrees with you, does not make them scum. I think this is clutching at straws, and is providing preferential treatment. RO duly pointed out others that also did not agree with the plan; yet you seem to be singling him out specifically. If you want traction: I am going to need more than "failing to contribute". Otherwise, this looks like a weak attempt to "scum hunt" - which can indeed be construed as scummy. In short, all I am asking for is: Why are ROs actions specifically scummy, and can not be a townie that shares a different mindset to that of yourself? To answer: read his filter.. is not an appropriate answer, because I already disagree with you.. you're meant to be trying to convince me...show me what you see RO is failing to contribute to the plans provided pre-picking phase by " lolololollllll, i sent my numbers, can't change, fu all,, i don't need to do shit.." Kill him. On April 05 2013 11:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 11:51 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On April 05 2013 10:10 gonzaw wrote:On April 05 2013 06:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On April 05 2013 04:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: 3 scum reads:
Caller, RO, Oats. Why On April 05 2013 05:46 strongandbig wrote: this whole discussion is stupid until we get the drafting list btw yes Gonzaw would you mind telling me what you think of oats, artanis, sharrant, and decondou? Would like to hear someone else's thoughts. Yo how about YOU tell me what you think of them? You can't force the wise man to do your bidding, he forces you to do his, and then enlightens you or punishes you accordingly I have to agree with yamato on Oats. Makes little sense for scum Oats to "intentionally disrupt" town like this in the drafting phase for no reason (if he's scum), rather than doing so when it matters to them: The Day phase. No reason to call him scum right now, wait until the game actually "matters" to state so. So you 5 guys are you sending the 1-5 draft choices? If so it may be better to claim so you don't clash between each other, and so you can convince other people not to take those as well (I already changed my number). I guess it's too late though, meh. I initially had a pretty bad feeling about oats, however he's just been too loud for me to think he's scum at this point. I'm rather suspicious of artanis, I actually wanted an opinion on sharrant because I have him as a complete null, and decondou was a red herring which I threw out on a whim. In hindsight you'd be too smart to go for it as scum anyway currently I have rayn as probable town since I've learned that the most annoying people tend to be town. That being said, I also really don't think RO is scummy. Also for the record, I'm not trying to force a wise man to do my bidding, just wanna check in with someone who completely played me before :D Oats is bad town or scum. Artanis is .. hmm.. idk.. sharrant almost definitely town. deconduo, leaning on scum at him. RO = scum. kill him <3 Etc, etc. This is how his reads "progress" with every single person that he's called scum. He just pulls their name out of thin air. Maybe makes up some justification for it, maybe not. VE/RO/Caller/me/austin/BM/etc etc. He's called ~half of the people in the game scum for little to no reasoning. And those reads swing extremely wildly. Over half of the people he randomly calls scum are people that conveniently happen to already be under some suspicion/pressure. And some extremely strange flip-flops. You'll notice up there in the quote spoiler, he was calling Caller scum for most of the game. Then: On April 06 2013 10:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 06 2013 10:23 geript wrote: Also, would someone familiar with Caller's meta tell me about him? Caller is actually town. Where did this come from? It makes no sense, because I don't see anything major that Caller changed, except he started pushing me. Or maybe that's the sense it makes; he stopped calling Caller scum once Caller started calling one of his "scum reads" scum (aka me). Which was my point to begin with: his reads just change when they're convenient to change. Not when he has sufficient reasons for changing them. Which is extremely different from everything about how he played in RED. 2) "The Plan": This point has already been talked about a bit, but I think it deserves a bit more attention. On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 03:10 Keirathi wrote:On April 05 2013 03:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 03:04 Keirathi wrote:On April 05 2013 02:59 geript wrote: @All Would everyone be okay if I came up with a set of 5 pods of rolls and the pods to be selected from in specific picks? I'd expect some feedback and editing on them. I'll be completely honest and say I hate plans like this. The game is called Pick YOUR Power. Not Let Everyone Else Pick Your Power For You. For one, I just don't see everyone agreeing, and to me it just ruins the fun of the game type. Nobody is saying what you should pick. I am suggesting that 5 players get to pick first. Is that a good plan or not and are the players town/mafia in your opinion? There are like 100 - or something - roles. If you don't get your favourite pick i'm sure you can find something else that suits you. I was responding to geripts plan to full pod out the game. IE: people in slots 1-4 only pick roles A, B, C, or D. Players in slots 5-6 only pick roles from E, F, G, or H. That's boring to me. I'm fine with players being given first picks (in theory) if they are going to use them to deny scum roles. If they're just going to pick whatever they feel like, then I disagree. I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. They should pick whatever they feel is best for the town. It's beneficial to town to have as many upper slots as possible. In one PYP i remember mafia!Chezinu picking CPRdoctor as ~#22. FUCKING CPRdoctor @ #22!!! There needs to be some cooperation in the picks, but it can't be too obvious or it's advantageous to mafia.If someone of us is mafia it doesn't matter, we need to be responsible for our actions regarding our role anyways. Notice what he says. People in the top picks need to have some kind of cooperation towards denying roles/picking strong roles. However, once he got his spot in the top 5, what happened to that cooperation? It was non-existent. He didn't even try. Town rayn in RED was cooperative and attempting to help town win all the way until end game, even when it meant he couldn't win himself (he had a dumb alternate win-con that involved killing a bunch of townies). He realized that he couldn't shoot us, or town as a whole would lose. So he sacrificed his own win-con and didn't shoot on the last night. Which makes me question this: On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 01:20 geript wrote: New plan: Instead of having a set 'draft list' in that say people drafting from 1-4 need to choose from a list of ABCD roles. People drafting from 5-8 need to draft from a list of EFGH, etc. etc. This makes it very risky for Scum to draft both outside of their own list and inside of their own list. This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc. On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5. "This is the only plan I will support!" "Oh wait, no. I'll support the plan that directly benefits me, even though I just said the other one was super good." He doesn't even explain why that plan is better than geript's. Just that suddenly, since the new plan gives him a free shot at the top 5, he would rather push that one. But also notice how in the quote about the cooperation, he says "I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. They should pick whatever they feel is best for the town." Which begs the question: why the fuck did he say that he thought geript's plan was absolutely the best plan, then turn around and say that he thinks that plan is dumb just *ONE* hour later?? I can understand liking a plan, pushing it, then liking another plan better. But he completely flip flops by saying a plan is good, then almost immediately saying "no that plan is bad". It all just reeks of posturing to benefit himself, rather than what he legitimately thinks is the "best". TL;DR: Strange reads with no progression or reasoning, uncooperative, excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks. Rayn is scum. ##vote raynpelikoneet Weak case on confirmed towny Rayn. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 04:57 Keirathi wrote: @gonzaw:
I just don't find your case all the convincing, tbh. I think the strongest point you make is the one about the needless complaining about the thread (and maybe a bit about the geript case), but I don't think that is enough to lynch him on. Most of your other points are just comparing him to other players, which is useless and futile. Artanis is not yamato, or rayn, or Sharrant, or me, or VE, or whoever else you compared him to. He's Artanis, and will play like Artanis, not anyone else.
And about the "fake" aggression, I just flat out disagree with that whole section. I took a look back at British since people were talking about it, and he does that same kind of thing as town. Calls out a post, then antagonizes people for disagreeing with him or not commenting on it. Then moved on or keeps pressuring it, as appropriate.
Overall, I'm not particularly interested in lynching Artanis today. Hard defense of Artanis. Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 17:37 Keirathi wrote:Also, as an aside: Pretty sure Sharrant is scum. Look at these posts: On April 07 2013 06:43 Sharrant wrote:On April 07 2013 04:27 VisceraEyes wrote: Whatever. Kill me then. I can't hunt scum while not a single person in the entire game is taking me seriously.
##Vote: RestrainingOrder Hi, Viscera. I'm pretty much null on your actions, so I want you to help me. Now, the reason I'm null on you is because I know I can't read you. Last game we played I thought I had a slam dunk case on you, and you were town. Now I might be reaching with this, but I want you to help me talk about Keirathi. See, just a short while ago there was talk about why Keirathi was scum, I think there're some really valid points in there. And I think a few others saw it too, but then suddenly the town was dragged off of this and into a spammy little brawl focused on antogonizing you and painting you as scum. Maybe you're scum, maybe you're not, but the way the thread has turned suggests to me you're not. This feels more to me like you're getting attacked the same way that caused Marvellosity to explode when he was town in a recent game. So I want you to talk to me about Keirathi, who after being called out has dissapeared after the cases on him, and I just want your opinion on Rayne because frankly I'm not quite sure how to read him. Do you think this could be mafia Keirathi's team trying to drag the town away from him after he got caught by causing a spammy mess on day 1? Do you think this is more likely town getting in an argument that is not indicative of Keirathi's alignment? And then your opinion on Keirathi himself and Rayne would be great., thank you. In the pre-game. I think he was actually trying here to do what he claimed was happening with me. I think he was trying to draw attention away from VE and give VE and out by pushing sentiment back towards me. On April 08 2013 09:46 Sharrant wrote:Well, I can't think of anyone who commented on my Keirathi case, but here's an update for no one. + Show Spoiler +He's off my scum list after these posts. They look much more like his town games. In his scum games he's more political in his posts. In his two scum games he's had disagreements but always contested things conservatively, compared to his town games like Red where he called bullshit twenty or so times on the first day. On April 07 2013 14:57 Keirathi wrote:EBWOP: Oh, what the fuck. Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote: StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now.
Explain the bolded. Because it sounds like made up bullshit. On April 07 2013 15:28 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 15:09 geript wrote: Honestly Keirathi, I don't feel great about Rayn, but I don't want to put too much stock in a meta read from one game especially when I don't know much of anything about Rayn. I could see someone going for a plan that puts them early in the draft order regardless of alignment.
As for S&B I'd like to hear his response, but I like your points about how he seems to find the draft/picking phase important but doesn't actually contribute anything to them at all. So go look at his filters from past games. Dismissing a meta read because you're too lazy to look at the meta yourself is just...wtfboggle. And my point wasn't that he was just pushing a plan to get himself high in the draft order. Yes, a townie could do that too. What I don't think a townie would do is specifically say that one plan was undeniably the best plan for town, the immediately flip flop on it and say that its a bad plan now, just because a new plan came up that benefits himself more. He's putting himself above the town as a whole; suddenly and for not much reason. (Which I also contend is completely different from what town rayn just did last game.) On April 08 2013 07:54 Keirathi wrote:@rayn: good, you're back First: ##UnvoteNow, let's talk a bit: Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: 1) How much time i devote to the game depends on how much time i have available. I have not ahd much time this weekend. What are you defending here? WHY are you defensive? I didn't call you out for lurking/not contributing/whatever. Weird opening statement. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: How i play also depends on the setup. It's very different when everyone is vanilla or when everyone has roles. You are making a meta case and later on you say you are not even sure about my meta. How do you think anyone is going to believe you if you are not sure yourself? You're right to an extent. I said that I hadn't read your scum meta. But everything about your play has been so glaringly different from the way you JUST played as town. Why? "Because the game is different" isn't an excuse for thinking and behaving completely differently. You didn't specifically call it dumb. I was...paraphrasing, a bit. And that post you just linked came before the post where I said you were calling geript's plan dumb, which is even weirder. Let's look at the progression, exactly: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 01:20 geript wrote: New plan: Instead of having a set 'draft list' in that say people drafting from 1-4 need to choose from a list of ABCD roles. People drafting from 5-8 need to draft from a list of EFGH, etc. etc. This makes it very risky for Scum to draft both outside of their own list and inside of their own list. This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Combine Vivax' + Geript's ideas and let these guys pick [1][1], [2][1], [3][1], [4][1], [5][1] (everyone else picks [6->] [X]):
Then: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. geript's plan was exactly that: the people in the first 4 slots (aka pod, in this case) would be limited to a certain pod of picks. You said that was unarguably the best plan for town. Then changed your mind and are saying it's a bad plan. That's what I was getting at, here. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: There is no reason to push any plans further when people reacted to any plans like they did. 3/4 of the people said "fuck all the plans", "i'm gonna do whatever they want so fu" or "it takes all the fun out of the game". What's the point of discussing any plans further when you already know it's not gonna happen anyways? At least i fucking provided a plan that had four town reads in it for people to discuss but no.. Everyone just hopped right over that part.. Ugh, I hate this kind of excuse. "No one else was doing anything, so I refuse to do anything too!" YOU were the one saying that the top picks needed some kind of cooperation. Why didn't you try to get any? You just got your top pick, and buggered off. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: TLDR; - Strange reads with no progression or reasoning - maybe you should have asked me about those reads then if you do not know where my head is at. Now you are just calling me scum because you think i have not reasoned my reads well enough yet you have had no intention to even find out why my reads are what they are. It's not my job to find out why you spew out bullshit reads with no explanation. The onus is on you to explain yourself. But again, that isn't even my point AT ALL. My entire point was that the way you are acquiring those reads is entirely inconsistent with how you acquired reads in Red Team. In Red Team, you saw something you didn't like, and either made a case right there, or you started poking and prodding at the person, questioning them and their motives. This game you just drop a name. Why so different? Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: - uncooperative - I see myself being the most cooperative peron before we got our roles. there are a lot of people who are way more uncooperative. After the roles were out i have had basically no time to think about the game, but that's gonna change now. Again, missed the whole point. You said that the top picks needed to be cooperative with picking powerful roles/denying scum roles. But didn't try to cooperate at all with the top picks once the draft order came out. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: - excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks - rofl, why wouldn't you want to be #1 person picking? How is this alignment indicative at all? Actually, scum would more likely try to avoid being the #1 picker because that automatically gives you a lot of attention and less chances to fakeclaim later if needed. Also the top guys are gonna get killed anyways early on as they probably have the "best" roles in the game. If they do not die it brings more attention to them. I already addressed that. No, trying to get yourself in a top pick isn't scummy, in itself. Rapidly changing your mind to a plan that benefits you more, personally, than town, and then refusing to back up your opinions on cooperating with the other top picks is scummy, though. I'm looking forward to seeing what you contribute today, though. Hopefully you can change my mind. ##Unvote: KeirathiRegarding Artanis I'm going to do some more reading tonight, but he has some posts that I find quite townie. I think they show that he is trying to contribute, as well as a clear thought process in attempting to help the town determine what is best in the draft phase. On April 04 2013 17:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote: So if I'm getting things right we plan on giving strong town reads effectively VT roles, correct? Though the idea of stopping strong scum roles is appealing, there are a myriad of strong roles in the game and I don't think sacrificing strong townreads that can pick early (and therefore are unlikely to be blocked by anyone) VT roles just to stop scum from picking certain roles is good. 1. They'll know exactly what X players before them picked so they can dodge roles that would otherwise make them VT. 2. Strong townreads end up with a public VT role rather than being able to help town beyond their scumhunting. 3. The townVT to scumVT balance will shift heavily in scum's favour 4. If there's scum before the last strong townread assigned to a scumrole, it could easily be sniped anyway. I think it's best if everyone hides their picks since it'll give scum the least amount of information and prevent them from having safe picks. Gives critical input on a plan as opposed to negative input, and has his first iteration of a plan: Everyone pick as discretely as possible. On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. Again giving critical input and creating a new plan, or at the very least a new iteration in Yamato's plan. On April 04 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. No one's actually addressed this yet, especially Yamato which I find strange as it's an improvement upon his plan. I'd propose we use it for 2 roles at the most though. Past that, it just becomes too unreliable. I don't like the VT claiming idea. Players that ended up with a VT role are still important to town in one way: Taking hits that would otherwise land on blues. I don't think the info gained on roles is worth this downside. There might be exceptions in certain situations (such as a player high up in the list claiming VT when he tried to pick a scummy role), but as the norm I'd be against it. Brings up his idea again, stating he believes it's an improvement to the plan, and again is applying critical thinking about the picking strategies that others are proposing. I don't see this as "hiding in set up speculation" I see this as someone applying critical thought as to how the town can start the game off with the most advantageous, and start the mafia off with the least. On April 05 2013 08:21 Artanis[Xp] wrote: The accountability is a good point actually, I hadn't thought about that yet. Hm. Still think it's better than doing nothing at all though since without any rules at all there's no accountability anyway. Will sleep on it. He takes criticism on his plan well, says he'll take time to think about it. To me it reads really townie,especially because of a later post where he brings up that the route town was going had no accountability. His posts to me show the thought process of someone trying to min/max the drafting system, and follows a plausible planning process. As I said earlier, I'll take a further look into him, and read the cases more thoroughly, but to me he reads as at least decently townie. I'm going to post this now, I'll be reading and writing for a (hopefully) larger post, so if anyone else is going to be on for a bit, let's chat about someone, I'll even let you pick who. Deflecting away from Artanis. On April 08 2013 11:21 Sharrant wrote:@StrongandBig Hi! I'll try and give you a sort of stream of consciousness on this one, and hopefully that will actually help me figure out where I stand on him. I've read through his filter a few times and I always notice things that send me in opposite directions on his alignment. + Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:25 ObviousOne wrote:Okay duders, raid night is over. Going for a quick re-read of the past half day after I post this since I've been tabbing out to catch what I could during down time. First impressions: I saw that Oats is/was under some suspicion (just going from memory, don't recall if it was talked out or not) but Oats is Oats; he's a bit all over the place but I don't see the same intent to shut things down that someone mentioned earlier. He was just as loud and all-over in RED. Null still. RO seems to want to be more helpful than I remember him being as scum in LX, not feeling what you guys that are suspicious of him are feeling there, either. Got my eye on Rayn at the moment. His style was spammy but usually constructive (at least in telling us what he was thinking) and I've got none of that after the first couple pages of his filter. Ten one-liners in a row or something, doesn't match up to his standard attacking pattern from RED. The attacks there were thought-out, here they mostly look like casual accusations perhaps fishing for reactions? The only points he has going for him is that he's absolutely confused about what is going on regarding the draft process: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 12:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Should we have our roles by now? Rayn, if you are serious about RO being scum then lay if out for me in one clean concise post, and if you are not, who are you most suspicious of right now? Or are you just drunk again?
Other stuff: Most of the chat was about planning how to set up the top spots to get roles protected, is that still a thing? I'm spot 2 somehow, and I was thinking about taking America because America, fuck yeah! Is that going to make me a Pariah or something? Girls just wanna have fun, you know? I'll use it as a second lynch like was suggested yesterday or I can just sit on it if you guys are paranoid about it. Going back for that re-read and making some coffee. See you in a bit when I'm finished with that. PS: Seriously guys, the spam, cut it out, I decided to avoid large games because of the sheer volume of posts so please be less liberal with one-liners, thank you! This post felt very airy, it certainly felt to me like a post that was primarily summation. There are some good questions in there, but there's no hard stances. The closest he comes to that is that he says he's got his eye on Rayn, but then never specifically says he was scummy. Points out he doesn't give fit his previous town meta, but then he gives him an out on it anyways saying that he might be fishing for reactions. I actually noticed something that really has me leaning towards scum on him now. He makes 2 posts specifically stating for people not to spam, and has several posts insulting BM for making small spammy posts with no content. I read this as townie when I first skimmed through his filter, but looking at it again There's something very wrong. + Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:25 ObviousOne wrote:.
PS: Seriously guys, the spam, cut it out, I decided to avoid large games because of the sheer volume of posts so please be less liberal with one-liners, thank you! On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote: ... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 12:16 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 12:13 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 12:11 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 12:01 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 11:51 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 11:43 Bill Murray wrote: DECONDUO WHAT ARE YOUR READS ON WHO ARE WHAT? Palmar is afk, but that's normal.FoS Deconduo On April 05 2013 01:29 Palmar wrote: I always suck at PYP games because I find the role discussion so boring I skip it. PTP 1: 3 posts before Day 1 PTP 2: 8 posts before Day 1 PYP Redux: 7 posts before Day 1 PYP Boardwalk: 18 posts before Day 1 Unless you're saying he's less afk than normal, I don't know why you think I'm wrong. well i guess he doesnt play like me anymore You say that like it's a bad thing. Look at his posts: + Show Spoiler +On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 09:59 Restraining Order wrote:In fact, I'm just going to quote myself on this matter. On April 05 2013 11:30 Restraining Order wrote: Pick assassin and try to kill me with please.
That way I don't actually die to your stupidity.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll stop reading your posts henceforth. Wouldn't be a problem if you'd actually think I'm mafia I'll indulge your soft town claim for a moment and simply ask you why your list contains 9 people. If you can justify all 9 in some way at least we'll know whether or not you're talking the breeze with these myriad suspicions. On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote: EBWOP: Oops, looks like I miscounted, make that 10. On April 06 2013 10:08 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 10:06 Restraining Order wrote:On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote: EBWOP: Oops, looks like I miscounted, make that 10. No, it's 9. I have no idea where VE got the Caller thing from, and it's sad you just take his word. If I've misread it please tell me how. It won't be the first time. I spent like 24 hours in Fruity misreading every little thing so just straighten me out instead of spitting in my face, thx. On April 06 2013 10:09 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 10:08 VisceraEyes wrote: Actually I misread the quote-pyramid. He was saying he wanted to lynch Kier when I thought he was replying to Caller. My mistake. .... On April 06 2013 11:28 ObviousOne wrote: WTF are all these random ass reads BM? Is this what you always do? On April 06 2013 11:38 ObviousOne wrote:RIGHT ABOUT WHAT PLEASE TYPE MORE JESUS FUCK On April 06 2013 12:16 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 12:13 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 12:11 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 12:01 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 11:51 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 11:43 Bill Murray wrote: DECONDUO WHAT ARE YOUR READS ON WHO ARE WHAT? Palmar is afk, but that's normal.FoS Deconduo On April 05 2013 01:29 Palmar wrote: I always suck at PYP games because I find the role discussion so boring I skip it. PTP 1: 3 posts before Day 1 PTP 2: 8 posts before Day 1 PYP Redux: 7 posts before Day 1 PYP Boardwalk: 18 posts before Day 1 Unless you're saying he's less afk than normal, I don't know why you think I'm wrong. well i guess he doesnt play like me anymore You say that like it's a bad thing. On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote: ... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 13:29 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote: ... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. Okay I'm laughing my ass off at this but really, three dot points or something. Substance, please. Who do you want to lynch D1? On April 06 2013 13:52 ObviousOne wrote:... not sure what to make of this but way to leave yourself open to accusations of a scum slip. Wow that's really bad looking. Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:37 geript wrote:I figured out why I don't like the case on RestrainingOrder at all. In The Game, I got to watch both Bugs and Kita push absolute bullshit towards town's direct. It was well crafted bullshit, but bullshit none the less. VE's case is an exact example of this type of thing for a few reasons: 1. The townread/lynch stuff + Show Spoiler +On April 06 2013 09:42 VisceraEyes wrote: So RO wants to lynch inside [Caller, Palmar, Decon, VE, Kierathi, Artanis, austin, OO, Vivax, sn0] before D1 starts. That's cool I guess, but some of those names sound familiar. Where have I seen those names before? ... Oh that's right. In that OTHER post where he made a list and said "4/5 are townies", he wants to lynch 3/5 of them. This is the exact type of thing that we as scum would jump on. Any little thing that we could catch where town fucked up, changed reads, etc. It's perfect to attack because it seems so simple and plausible. Town in general are not going to be filtering themselves constantly to see their positions, know where they stood on exact people, etc. Whereas as scum, we were quite often referencing ourselves to see what stances were plausible for us to take. I can't wholly ignore the possibility that RO may just be lazy scum, hell he lurked most of LX until his teammate shot him. However, it's stupid to think that this early on that scum would make a slip this big. It's far more likely to be bad/stupid town. This isn't particularly scummy. On April 06 2013 13:57 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:54 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 13:28 Mocsta wrote:@ArtanisXpI would like to continue discussion regarding your Geript case. Specifically, your qualms with Geripts wishy-washiness on whether I am town as follows: + Show Spoiler [Artanis on Geript] +On April 06 2013 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote: I'm not saying that you haven't done anything not town Mocsta-ish. There's just a very specific heuristic that town Mocsta seems to follow that you haven't hit on yet for me. I'm leaning town on you but until you get that one aspect I have a hard time putting you there fully.
As for your posting, I really like it. Translates to: =============================== On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote:Hi, I think you're being townie, but you're not being you-townie, yet I still think you're townie but I'm not sure if you're townie. Oh and I think you're pretty townie. =============================== Why on earth would a townie post this? WHY?Mocsta wasn't even close to being in danger, and the town motivation for calling someone town, then suspicious, then town eludes me. What I find curious about the above, is when we start discussing Geript and you comment the below: + Show Spoiler [Artanis WishyWashy] +On April 06 2013 09:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I had you as weak town before our exchange, and the post you made questioned that read, so I questioned you. At first I thought it made you null again, but rereading it I realized that your wishy-washy post wouldn't make sense if Geript is scum, because he created an easy way for you to defend him which you denied. Since I believe Geript to be scum that makes you fairly town. On April 06 2013 09:16 Mocsta wrote: Lol.. and if he is town.. what then? On April 06 2013 09:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote: [red]Then you'd be null again. I find this interchange ironic, as you flip flop regarding my alignment much to the same manner Geript does. Let me guess, the heuristic doesnt apply to your play?
Further, I shall ask the same question I asked Geript. On April 05 2013 15:18 Mocsta wrote: Im not sure why I need to know you have me as town though? Nor why everyone else needs to know?
Im asking because, Im still trying to figure out if that affects my perception of you. town are more likely to flip flop than mafia On April 06 2013 13:29 ObviousOne wrote:On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote: ... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 13:26 Bill Murray wrote: meta Okay I'm laughing my ass off at this but really, three dot points or something. Substance, please. Who do you want to lynch D1? AustinMCC at this point is betraying his blue meta as a lurker that I've seen He had a plan that would help the mafia, too, in regards to town picking from the mafia role list It wouldn't surprise me at all to see the mafia have taken from more "town" roles than "mafia" ones By that token, I don't expect there is a Godfather So do you know who is mafia or are you saying AustinMCC is a town read of yours? ALL of those posts were one after another. They're spread out over 4 hours, but it's 11 posts that are almost entirely one liners, some without even any text. Yet he was saying don't spam, make good quality posts. Why wasn't he doing that too? + Show Spoiler +On April 08 2013 08:24 ObviousOne wrote: Also sorry to dine and dash but my cousin wants to hang out, back in a few hours if I manage to be wakeful when I get home.
Oh, gotta vote too. On April 08 2013 09:58 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 09:54 Palmar wrote: I think it's mafia defending me, I look too scummy for townies to defend me.
why is there no machine gun role that can kill like 8 people on day 1, I'd have liked that.
Also there really is not enough killing this game. Bored Walk Empire Mafiyawn: Pull Your Pud =[ On April 08 2013 10:25 ObviousOne wrote: Undertaker 21-0 GG no RE On April 08 2013 10:31 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 10:30 strongandbig wrote:On April 08 2013 09:46 Sharrant wrote:Well, I can't think of anyone who commented on my Keirathi case, but here's an update for no one. + Show Spoiler +He's off my scum list after these posts. They look much more like his town games. In his scum games he's more political in his posts. In his two scum games he's had disagreements but always contested things conservatively, compared to his town games like Red where he called bullshit twenty or so times on the first day. On April 07 2013 14:57 Keirathi wrote:EBWOP: Oh, what the fuck. Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote: StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now.
Explain the bolded. Because it sounds like made up bullshit. On April 07 2013 15:28 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 15:09 geript wrote: Honestly Keirathi, I don't feel great about Rayn, but I don't want to put too much stock in a meta read from one game especially when I don't know much of anything about Rayn. I could see someone going for a plan that puts them early in the draft order regardless of alignment.
As for S&B I'd like to hear his response, but I like your points about how he seems to find the draft/picking phase important but doesn't actually contribute anything to them at all. So go look at his filters from past games. Dismissing a meta read because you're too lazy to look at the meta yourself is just...wtfboggle. And my point wasn't that he was just pushing a plan to get himself high in the draft order. Yes, a townie could do that too. What I don't think a townie would do is specifically say that one plan was undeniably the best plan for town, the immediately flip flop on it and say that its a bad plan now, just because a new plan came up that benefits himself more. He's putting himself above the town as a whole; suddenly and for not much reason. (Which I also contend is completely different from what town rayn just did last game.) On April 08 2013 07:54 Keirathi wrote:@rayn: good, you're back First: ##UnvoteNow, let's talk a bit: Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: 1) How much time i devote to the game depends on how much time i have available. I have not ahd much time this weekend. What are you defending here? WHY are you defensive? I didn't call you out for lurking/not contributing/whatever. Weird opening statement. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: How i play also depends on the setup. It's very different when everyone is vanilla or when everyone has roles. You are making a meta case and later on you say you are not even sure about my meta. How do you think anyone is going to believe you if you are not sure yourself? You're right to an extent. I said that I hadn't read your scum meta. But everything about your play has been so glaringly different from the way you JUST played as town. Why? "Because the game is different" isn't an excuse for thinking and behaving completely differently. You didn't specifically call it dumb. I was...paraphrasing, a bit. And that post you just linked came before the post where I said you were calling geript's plan dumb, which is even weirder. Let's look at the progression, exactly: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 01:20 geript wrote: New plan: Instead of having a set 'draft list' in that say people drafting from 1-4 need to choose from a list of ABCD roles. People drafting from 5-8 need to draft from a list of EFGH, etc. etc. This makes it very risky for Scum to draft both outside of their own list and inside of their own list. This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Combine Vivax' + Geript's ideas and let these guys pick [1][1], [2][1], [3][1], [4][1], [5][1] (everyone else picks [6->] [X]):
Then: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. geript's plan was exactly that: the people in the first 4 slots (aka pod, in this case) would be limited to a certain pod of picks. You said that was unarguably the best plan for town. Then changed your mind and are saying it's a bad plan. That's what I was getting at, here. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: There is no reason to push any plans further when people reacted to any plans like they did. 3/4 of the people said "fuck all the plans", "i'm gonna do whatever they want so fu" or "it takes all the fun out of the game". What's the point of discussing any plans further when you already know it's not gonna happen anyways? At least i fucking provided a plan that had four town reads in it for people to discuss but no.. Everyone just hopped right over that part.. Ugh, I hate this kind of excuse. "No one else was doing anything, so I refuse to do anything too!" YOU were the one saying that the top picks needed some kind of cooperation. Why didn't you try to get any? You just got your top pick, and buggered off. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: TLDR; - Strange reads with no progression or reasoning - maybe you should have asked me about those reads then if you do not know where my head is at. Now you are just calling me scum because you think i have not reasoned my reads well enough yet you have had no intention to even find out why my reads are what they are. It's not my job to find out why you spew out bullshit reads with no explanation. The onus is on you to explain yourself. But again, that isn't even my point AT ALL. My entire point was that the way you are acquiring those reads is entirely inconsistent with how you acquired reads in Red Team. In Red Team, you saw something you didn't like, and either made a case right there, or you started poking and prodding at the person, questioning them and their motives. This game you just drop a name. Why so different? Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: - uncooperative - I see myself being the most cooperative peron before we got our roles. there are a lot of people who are way more uncooperative. After the roles were out i have had basically no time to think about the game, but that's gonna change now. Again, missed the whole point. You said that the top picks needed to be cooperative with picking powerful roles/denying scum roles. But didn't try to cooperate at all with the top picks once the draft order came out. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: - excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks - rofl, why wouldn't you want to be #1 person picking? How is this alignment indicative at all? Actually, scum would more likely try to avoid being the #1 picker because that automatically gives you a lot of attention and less chances to fakeclaim later if needed. Also the top guys are gonna get killed anyways early on as they probably have the "best" roles in the game. If they do not die it brings more attention to them. I already addressed that. No, trying to get yourself in a top pick isn't scummy, in itself. Rapidly changing your mind to a plan that benefits you more, personally, than town, and then refusing to back up your opinions on cooperating with the other top picks is scummy, though. I'm looking forward to seeing what you contribute today, though. Hopefully you can change my mind. ##Unvote: KeirathiRegarding Artanis I'm going to do some more reading tonight, but he has some posts that I find quite townie. I think they show that he is trying to contribute, as well as a clear thought process in attempting to help the town determine what is best in the draft phase. On April 04 2013 17:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote: So if I'm getting things right we plan on giving strong town reads effectively VT roles, correct? Though the idea of stopping strong scum roles is appealing, there are a myriad of strong roles in the game and I don't think sacrificing strong townreads that can pick early (and therefore are unlikely to be blocked by anyone) VT roles just to stop scum from picking certain roles is good. 1. They'll know exactly what X players before them picked so they can dodge roles that would otherwise make them VT. 2. Strong townreads end up with a public VT role rather than being able to help town beyond their scumhunting. 3. The townVT to scumVT balance will shift heavily in scum's favour 4. If there's scum before the last strong townread assigned to a scumrole, it could easily be sniped anyway. I think it's best if everyone hides their picks since it'll give scum the least amount of information and prevent them from having safe picks. Gives critical input on a plan as opposed to negative input, and has his first iteration of a plan: Everyone pick as discretely as possible. On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. Again giving critical input and creating a new plan, or at the very least a new iteration in Yamato's plan. On April 04 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. No one's actually addressed this yet, especially Yamato which I find strange as it's an improvement upon his plan. I'd propose we use it for 2 roles at the most though. Past that, it just becomes too unreliable. I don't like the VT claiming idea. Players that ended up with a VT role are still important to town in one way: Taking hits that would otherwise land on blues. I don't think the info gained on roles is worth this downside. There might be exceptions in certain situations (such as a player high up in the list claiming VT when he tried to pick a scummy role), but as the norm I'd be against it. Brings up his idea again, stating he believes it's an improvement to the plan, and again is applying critical thinking about the picking strategies that others are proposing. I don't see this as "hiding in set up speculation" I see this as someone applying critical thought as to how the town can start the game off with the most advantageous, and start the mafia off with the least. On April 05 2013 08:21 Artanis[Xp] wrote: The accountability is a good point actually, I hadn't thought about that yet. Hm. Still think it's better than doing nothing at all though since without any rules at all there's no accountability anyway. Will sleep on it. He takes criticism on his plan well, says he'll take time to think about it. To me it reads really townie,especially because of a later post where he brings up that the route town was going had no accountability. His posts to me show the thought process of someone trying to min/max the drafting system, and follows a plausible planning process. As I said earlier, I'll take a further look into him, and read the cases more thoroughly, but to me he reads as at least decently townie. I'm going to post this now, I'll be reading and writing for a (hopefully) larger post, so if anyone else is going to be on for a bit, let's chat about someone, I'll even let you pick who. hi sharrant i don't think you are right in interpreting those posts as townie, those are things scum could do as well - both because setup discussion is always fertile ground for scum to grow the rare towncred-flower, and because it was (or at least, it seemed to me) clear that this town was too fractious for a real plan to come together. that said i like that you are taking this seriously and giving real thought to what you're saying it seems like you haven't been commenting much on stuff since the end of the setup phase but that may be because you play more like i did when i was a new player, with a lot of full sentences and capitalization and well-thought-out posts so how about lets talk about a player? I randomly chose obviousone. i wrote up a few sentences about his post about artanis, how about you do the same and then we can both post ours after i finish my next dota game? Commercial break. Come at me bro. On April 08 2013 10:46 ObviousOne wrote: Mocsta. I love you dearly. Please make paragraphs.
Or
I'll
Do
This
Just
To
Explain
Why
It's
Annoying
And
Difficult
To
Read. On April 08 2013 10:52 ObviousOne wrote: @Mocsta
<3 never change Look at all the spam there. And the kicker, On April 08 2013 10:28 ObviousOne wrote:On April 08 2013 10:24 Mocsta wrote: Gonzaw Unrelated question.
Do you think I spamming up the thread?
I am asking because my last couple posts have all been big text walls; and not sure if Im getting my message across succinctly at the moment.
Who cares at this point. Give the lurkers a shit load of posts to read when they get back. Let them cry. Let them complain. They will sheep anyway. Your question wouldn't even be relevant if everyone was participating. Be the Mocsta we know and love. Fuck the haters. Straight up saying to spam. Call it a joke, or whatever, but that kind of conflicting mindset isn't townie. ##vote: ObviousOneYou can't stay in line with your own thinking at all, I think that's because you're scum. Chainsaw Artanis. But I think this is the kicker: On April 08 2013 12:45 Sharrant wrote: I'm pretty much 100% sure that that was an assassin kill. Gonzaw pretty much gave away his role earlier when he was figuring that he could withhold his shot today and have any possibility of surviving until the next day and being able to shoot. This makes Sinani look worse for fishing for his role now that it is fairly likely that scum have an assassin.
It is possible that he was day vigi'd, but that is much much less likely in my opinion. This was almost immediately after the gonzaw shot. At the time, Mocsta and I (and maybe a few others), were floundering a bit about what role killed gonzaw. In strolls Sharrant being 100% sure it was an assassin kill (and remember, he's been hard defending the actual assassin). Keep reading a bit after that and see how the rest of the conversation went down. He tried to flip it to make Mocsta scummy, and he seemed to have put an extraordinary amount of thought into gonzaw being Jack before he flipped for a "townie". So yea, Sharrant is scum. And with that, I sleeps. G'nite! Look at this. He thinks Sharrant is chainsawing onto OO but qualifies with: Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 17:42 Keirathi wrote: EBWOP:
1 last thing. I think we have 2 scum between Sharrant, sinani, and Vivax. Maybe OO.
I think our lynch candidates for the day should be out of them. I'm going to drop my vote on Sharrant and sinani, and we can talk tomorrow. But seems to be thinking OO is likely scum or knowing he is: Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 10:59 Keirathi wrote:On April 11 2013 10:53 geript wrote: Sharrant not likely scum. Shelvocke not likely scum. OO not likely scum. MZ is a big ?? Best lynch of those 4. Why not OO? You seem to be overly reliant on this "scum didn't double pick" heuristic. OO didn't double pick with anyone as far as I can tell. Earlier you said "There are likely exactly 2 scum within the people who picked 1-5", which includes OO, except you never talked about him again. Read his filter and tell me he gives an actual reason for suspecting OO on D2. On April 13 2013 05:37 geript wrote: If myself and BM die tonight, please nuke Kei. Kthnxbai Day starts - relevant quotes: On April 13 2013 12:09 geript wrote: So mocsta, what did you think of my points? On April 13 2013 12:30 Keirathi wrote: I checked BM.
He is scum.
##Vote: Bill Murray On April 13 2013 12:31 geript wrote: Well that makes this easy... Throw the Holy Hand Grenade at Bill Murray Keirathi, geript's main scumread, announces red check, and geript immediately kills him, saying it's easy. That doesn't make any sense. Geript clearly didn't have the balls to doubt the check of his main scumread, and that's extremely scummy. This case is really bad, but I'm not sure if that necessarily indicates that Vivax is mafia. Do you think so? I'm not looking into Vivax' alignment with this line of conversation.
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On April 17 2013 05:33 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 05:32 Restraining Order wrote:On April 17 2013 05:29 yamato77 wrote:On April 17 2013 04:47 Vivax wrote:Why geript could be scum massive push against keirathi at end of night before he nukes BM: + Show Spoiler +On April 13 2013 03:55 geript wrote: People should reread Keirathi's filter again with consideration of the flips so far. On April 13 2013 04:18 geript wrote: Just read his damn filter. Tell me if his D1 filter looks towny at all. On April 13 2013 04:37 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 03:53 Keirathi wrote: Bleh, I got drafted into helping my mom in the garden today. So I probably wont be around for a few more hours. Some quick comments:
1) Artanis: His recent play feels more townie, and I thought he was a coinflip at best even before gonzaw died. Not sure why Caller (apparently) killed him. I (still) don't like him as a lynch candidate today even if Caller didn't kill him.
2) Caller: I hate everything about his play, but the fact remains that if Caller is Showtime! and used it now, on Artanis or all people, just doesn't make much sense from scum. Possible, but not likely scum IMO.
3) VE: He still hasn't done his classic scum tell that I mentioned, but he's also not done ANYTHING. With geript claiming that NRA was taken already b spot 6, VE is a valid option for having chosen it (Shelvocke too, since he's obviously a smurf of someone who is at least familiar with older games). I'm just not sure about him at all...if he did take NRA as scum, his play would make a lot of sense. Maybe we lynch him.
4) Shelvocke: MZ + austin had good points. I could get behind a Shelvocke lynch.
5) Sinani: Very possibly scum. I pointed out his weird "playing it safe" quote, and also how he described S&B as trying to direct the thread to justify his vote. He then came back to neither answer my questions nor expound on anything else (including his own reads), just to ask gonzaw his role and tell gonzaw to shoot BM. If not lynch today, then tomorrow.
Anyways, be back in a few hours. Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 23:51 Keirathi wrote:On April 09 2013 21:38 Palmar wrote: And I wrote the assassin and nra = scum analysis. I hate everything about this so much. That entire post was just you rehashing things that had already been said. Geript had told us why VE was probably NRA and probably scum. Yours was just why NRA was probably scum, didn't include who it was. And EVERYONE had already concluded that gonzaw was shot by a scum assassin. Your entire contribution was...nothing new at all. Why are you trying to buy town cred for that, rofl. Funny the 180 on VE hunh. I completely outed VE as NRA and scum but Kei was only "maybe" interested in lynching VE. Tell me that's not fishy. Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 12:25 Keirathi wrote:Anyways: raynpelikoneet: I just got out of RED Team (click link for his filter) with a town rayn, so my expectations of his town play are still in the forefront of my mind. And some very obvious things aren't matching up: 1) Progression of reads: I'm not going to quote every instance, but something really sticks out to me: + Show Spoiler +On March 26 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: What's with the ninja vote marv? On March 26 2013 08:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 08:11 marvellosity wrote:On March 26 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: What's with the ninja vote marv? Just curious how you'd react given you totally overreacted to prplhz. I can join Hapa on his policy lynch though, so you're in luck ^^ Why do you assume i was serious in the first place? On March 26 2013 08:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 08:23 Dandel Ion wrote:On March 26 2013 08:19 cDgCorazon wrote: Rayn goes back to the shadows when he is called out on his argument.
Why are you scummy Rayn? Is he, though? Maybe that's all just in your head. A good question. After all it was prplhz who disappeared, not me. On March 26 2013 10:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: S&B: I never said i wasn't serious with my vote. I asked marv why does he assume i am serious. Something he also failed to answer. On March 26 2013 10:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:The reason i asked the question from marv was this post: Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 08:11 marvellosity wrote:On March 26 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: What's with the ninja vote marv? Just curious how you'd react given you totally overreacted to prplhz. I can join Hapa on his policy lynch though, so you're in luck ^^ ##Unvote ##Vote: ObviousOne He had voted me because i "overreacted" to prplhz. How does me asking "what's with the ninja vote?" make him change his vote to a stupid policy lynch? On March 26 2013 10:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: On top of that marv & Keir seem to be quite defensive about prplhz. Why not let the guy answer himself? On March 26 2013 21:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:I have one problem with marv. He pressure voted me early on in the game. When i asked his what's up with the ninja vote, he posted this: Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 08:11 marvellosity wrote:On March 26 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: What's with the ninja vote marv? Just curious how you'd react given you totally overreacted to prplhz. I can join Hapa on his policy lynch though, so you're in luck ^^ ##Unvote ##Vote: ObviousOne If he really thought i overreacted to prplhz why wouldn't he pressure me more? Was the "what's up with the ninja vote" somekinda secret townie answer i gave? If i was marv and i thought someone overreacted to something and i was already pressuring him, i would definitely keep the pressure on to try to find more clues about their alignment. Here he just completely drops the issue and changes his vote to a policy target (which i do not see serving any purpose in finding mafia). On March 27 2013 01:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 01:13 marvellosity wrote:On March 27 2013 01:11 cDgCorazon wrote:On March 27 2013 00:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: Holy crap Corazon is failing hard to even read my filter. I read your filter and all you've done is attack 6 people, all of which have been under pressure from others. I read your filter bro. Get some better defense. The fact is that rayn has brought new things to the table too; his analysis/vote of OO's second post, or Oats' apparent contradiction with the prplhz/Dandel cases - and indeed something came of this. Being active, suspicious of many people, and aggressively questioning are not what I think of as mafia characteristics. Besides this i havn't attacked people. I questioned marv and Keirathi. Keirathi told me why i was wrong in prplhz-defending-thingy, i agreed i was wrong and let it go. I questioned marv because i wanted him to do stuff. I agree with his reads/observations when he presented them and it makes me think he is town for now. He still didn't answer my question about the start of the game but because everyone seems to think it's irrelevant it probably is and i'm not going to sidetrack the discussion by screaming about it over and over again. Try again Cora. What you'll see is a direct thought process and how rayn's read progresses. He played like this for the entire game: see something he thinks is scummy, questions it, discusses it, and then either votes or moves on to something else. Or even just see something he finds scummy, dissects it, and makes a case. He's trying to figure out the game, and engaging people trying to get comments on his points/comment on their points/doing whatever he can to help town. Now let's look at this game: + Show Spoiler +On April 04 2013 22:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:Forced VT claim: is an attempt to understand whether "key roles" are in the game. The action itself should not be used to establish individuals as confirmed town/scum. The problem with this is that town has no way of knowing who is lying and who is telling the truth. Scum know who is lying and who is telling the truth. The information we gain is only reliable for mafia at the start of the game. It gives mafia more opportunities to fakeclaim, bullshit, or tell the truth if it benefits them the most, and make plans that revolve around those things. And you have no way of figuring out which is it. If mafia is wise and plays it right there is no way town is going to win anything from this compared to mafia. RO: Thoughts on this? On April 04 2013 22:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 22:48 Restraining Order wrote:On April 04 2013 22:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 04 2013 22:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:Forced VT claim: is an attempt to understand whether "key roles" are in the game. The action itself should not be used to establish individuals as confirmed town/scum. The problem with this is that town has no way of knowing who is lying and who is telling the truth. Scum know who is lying and who is telling the truth. The information we gain is only reliable for mafia at the start of the game. It gives mafia more opportunities to fakeclaim, bullshit, or tell the truth if it benefits them the most, and make plans that revolve around those things. And you have no way of figuring out which is it. If mafia is wise and plays it right there is no way town is going to win anything from this compared to mafia. RO: Thoughts on this? Nothing I have not already said. You seem to be disagreeing with me here. What is wrong in what i said? On April 05 2013 04:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: 3 scum reads:
Caller, RO, Oats. On April 05 2013 11:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 11:08 Mocsta wrote:On April 05 2013 10:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 10:47 Mocsta wrote:On April 05 2013 10:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: and yeah, RO is scum i think. Can you walk me through this please. From what I saw, the only build up you had to claiming RO is scum is: On April 05 2013 03:28 Restraining Order wrote: Ok, you can keep townhunting them townreads if you want, I sent in my numbers already. They shouldn't be too obtrusive to whatever nonsense you'll come up with, so it's okay. Where I am having trouble following you is: I dont see how *only* scum would would or could make a statement like this. RO is failing to contribute to anything at all. See his filter. No more need to be said. Good kill on D1/N1. I still dont follow. What has there been to contribute? We have been talking about plans; just because someone disagrees with you, does not make them scum. I think this is clutching at straws, and is providing preferential treatment. RO duly pointed out others that also did not agree with the plan; yet you seem to be singling him out specifically. If you want traction: I am going to need more than "failing to contribute". Otherwise, this looks like a weak attempt to "scum hunt" - which can indeed be construed as scummy. In short, all I am asking for is: Why are ROs actions specifically scummy, and can not be a townie that shares a different mindset to that of yourself? To answer: read his filter.. is not an appropriate answer, because I already disagree with you.. you're meant to be trying to convince me...show me what you see RO is failing to contribute to the plans provided pre-picking phase by " lolololollllll, i sent my numbers, can't change, fu all,, i don't need to do shit.." Kill him. On April 05 2013 11:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 11:51 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On April 05 2013 10:10 gonzaw wrote:On April 05 2013 06:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On April 05 2013 04:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: 3 scum reads:
Caller, RO, Oats. Why On April 05 2013 05:46 strongandbig wrote: this whole discussion is stupid until we get the drafting list btw yes Gonzaw would you mind telling me what you think of oats, artanis, sharrant, and decondou? Would like to hear someone else's thoughts. Yo how about YOU tell me what you think of them? You can't force the wise man to do your bidding, he forces you to do his, and then enlightens you or punishes you accordingly I have to agree with yamato on Oats. Makes little sense for scum Oats to "intentionally disrupt" town like this in the drafting phase for no reason (if he's scum), rather than doing so when it matters to them: The Day phase. No reason to call him scum right now, wait until the game actually "matters" to state so. So you 5 guys are you sending the 1-5 draft choices? If so it may be better to claim so you don't clash between each other, and so you can convince other people not to take those as well (I already changed my number). I guess it's too late though, meh. I initially had a pretty bad feeling about oats, however he's just been too loud for me to think he's scum at this point. I'm rather suspicious of artanis, I actually wanted an opinion on sharrant because I have him as a complete null, and decondou was a red herring which I threw out on a whim. In hindsight you'd be too smart to go for it as scum anyway currently I have rayn as probable town since I've learned that the most annoying people tend to be town. That being said, I also really don't think RO is scummy. Also for the record, I'm not trying to force a wise man to do my bidding, just wanna check in with someone who completely played me before :D Oats is bad town or scum. Artanis is .. hmm.. idk.. sharrant almost definitely town. deconduo, leaning on scum at him. RO = scum. kill him <3 Etc, etc. This is how his reads "progress" with every single person that he's called scum. He just pulls their name out of thin air. Maybe makes up some justification for it, maybe not. VE/RO/Caller/me/austin/BM/etc etc. He's called ~half of the people in the game scum for little to no reasoning. And those reads swing extremely wildly. Over half of the people he randomly calls scum are people that conveniently happen to already be under some suspicion/pressure. And some extremely strange flip-flops. You'll notice up there in the quote spoiler, he was calling Caller scum for most of the game. Then: On April 06 2013 10:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 06 2013 10:23 geript wrote: Also, would someone familiar with Caller's meta tell me about him? Caller is actually town. Where did this come from? It makes no sense, because I don't see anything major that Caller changed, except he started pushing me. Or maybe that's the sense it makes; he stopped calling Caller scum once Caller started calling one of his "scum reads" scum (aka me). Which was my point to begin with: his reads just change when they're convenient to change. Not when he has sufficient reasons for changing them. Which is extremely different from everything about how he played in RED. 2) "The Plan": This point has already been talked about a bit, but I think it deserves a bit more attention. On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 03:10 Keirathi wrote:On April 05 2013 03:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 03:04 Keirathi wrote:On April 05 2013 02:59 geript wrote: @All Would everyone be okay if I came up with a set of 5 pods of rolls and the pods to be selected from in specific picks? I'd expect some feedback and editing on them. I'll be completely honest and say I hate plans like this. The game is called Pick YOUR Power. Not Let Everyone Else Pick Your Power For You. For one, I just don't see everyone agreeing, and to me it just ruins the fun of the game type. Nobody is saying what you should pick. I am suggesting that 5 players get to pick first. Is that a good plan or not and are the players town/mafia in your opinion? There are like 100 - or something - roles. If you don't get your favourite pick i'm sure you can find something else that suits you. I was responding to geripts plan to full pod out the game. IE: people in slots 1-4 only pick roles A, B, C, or D. Players in slots 5-6 only pick roles from E, F, G, or H. That's boring to me. I'm fine with players being given first picks (in theory) if they are going to use them to deny scum roles. If they're just going to pick whatever they feel like, then I disagree. I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. They should pick whatever they feel is best for the town. It's beneficial to town to have as many upper slots as possible. In one PYP i remember mafia!Chezinu picking CPRdoctor as ~#22. FUCKING CPRdoctor @ #22!!! There needs to be some cooperation in the picks, but it can't be too obvious or it's advantageous to mafia.If someone of us is mafia it doesn't matter, we need to be responsible for our actions regarding our role anyways. Notice what he says. People in the top picks need to have some kind of cooperation towards denying roles/picking strong roles. However, once he got his spot in the top 5, what happened to that cooperation? It was non-existent. He didn't even try. Town rayn in RED was cooperative and attempting to help town win all the way until end game, even when it meant he couldn't win himself (he had a dumb alternate win-con that involved killing a bunch of townies). He realized that he couldn't shoot us, or town as a whole would lose. So he sacrificed his own win-con and didn't shoot on the last night. Which makes me question this: On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 01:20 geript wrote: New plan: Instead of having a set 'draft list' in that say people drafting from 1-4 need to choose from a list of ABCD roles. People drafting from 5-8 need to draft from a list of EFGH, etc. etc. This makes it very risky for Scum to draft both outside of their own list and inside of their own list. This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc. On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5. "This is the only plan I will support!" "Oh wait, no. I'll support the plan that directly benefits me, even though I just said the other one was super good." He doesn't even explain why that plan is better than geript's. Just that suddenly, since the new plan gives him a free shot at the top 5, he would rather push that one. But also notice how in the quote about the cooperation, he says "I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. They should pick whatever they feel is best for the town." Which begs the question: why the fuck did he say that he thought geript's plan was absolutely the best plan, then turn around and say that he thinks that plan is dumb just *ONE* hour later?? I can understand liking a plan, pushing it, then liking another plan better. But he completely flip flops by saying a plan is good, then almost immediately saying "no that plan is bad". It all just reeks of posturing to benefit himself, rather than what he legitimately thinks is the "best". TL;DR: Strange reads with no progression or reasoning, uncooperative, excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks. Rayn is scum. ##vote raynpelikoneet Weak case on confirmed towny Rayn. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 04:57 Keirathi wrote: @gonzaw:
I just don't find your case all the convincing, tbh. I think the strongest point you make is the one about the needless complaining about the thread (and maybe a bit about the geript case), but I don't think that is enough to lynch him on. Most of your other points are just comparing him to other players, which is useless and futile. Artanis is not yamato, or rayn, or Sharrant, or me, or VE, or whoever else you compared him to. He's Artanis, and will play like Artanis, not anyone else.
And about the "fake" aggression, I just flat out disagree with that whole section. I took a look back at British since people were talking about it, and he does that same kind of thing as town. Calls out a post, then antagonizes people for disagreeing with him or not commenting on it. Then moved on or keeps pressuring it, as appropriate.
Overall, I'm not particularly interested in lynching Artanis today. Hard defense of Artanis. Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 17:37 Keirathi wrote:Also, as an aside: Pretty sure Sharrant is scum. Look at these posts: On April 07 2013 06:43 Sharrant wrote:On April 07 2013 04:27 VisceraEyes wrote: Whatever. Kill me then. I can't hunt scum while not a single person in the entire game is taking me seriously.
##Vote: RestrainingOrder Hi, Viscera. I'm pretty much null on your actions, so I want you to help me. Now, the reason I'm null on you is because I know I can't read you. Last game we played I thought I had a slam dunk case on you, and you were town. Now I might be reaching with this, but I want you to help me talk about Keirathi. See, just a short while ago there was talk about why Keirathi was scum, I think there're some really valid points in there. And I think a few others saw it too, but then suddenly the town was dragged off of this and into a spammy little brawl focused on antogonizing you and painting you as scum. Maybe you're scum, maybe you're not, but the way the thread has turned suggests to me you're not. This feels more to me like you're getting attacked the same way that caused Marvellosity to explode when he was town in a recent game. So I want you to talk to me about Keirathi, who after being called out has dissapeared after the cases on him, and I just want your opinion on Rayne because frankly I'm not quite sure how to read him. Do you think this could be mafia Keirathi's team trying to drag the town away from him after he got caught by causing a spammy mess on day 1? Do you think this is more likely town getting in an argument that is not indicative of Keirathi's alignment? And then your opinion on Keirathi himself and Rayne would be great., thank you. In the pre-game. I think he was actually trying here to do what he claimed was happening with me. I think he was trying to draw attention away from VE and give VE and out by pushing sentiment back towards me. On April 08 2013 09:46 Sharrant wrote:Well, I can't think of anyone who commented on my Keirathi case, but here's an update for no one. + Show Spoiler +He's off my scum list after these posts. They look much more like his town games. In his scum games he's more political in his posts. In his two scum games he's had disagreements but always contested things conservatively, compared to his town games like Red where he called bullshit twenty or so times on the first day. On April 07 2013 14:57 Keirathi wrote:EBWOP: Oh, what the fuck. Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote: StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now.
Explain the bolded. Because it sounds like made up bullshit. On April 07 2013 15:28 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 15:09 geript wrote: Honestly Keirathi, I don't feel great about Rayn, but I don't want to put too much stock in a meta read from one game especially when I don't know much of anything about Rayn. I could see someone going for a plan that puts them early in the draft order regardless of alignment.
As for S&B I'd like to hear his response, but I like your points about how he seems to find the draft/picking phase important but doesn't actually contribute anything to them at all. So go look at his filters from past games. Dismissing a meta read because you're too lazy to look at the meta yourself is just...wtfboggle. And my point wasn't that he was just pushing a plan to get himself high in the draft order. Yes, a townie could do that too. What I don't think a townie would do is specifically say that one plan was undeniably the best plan for town, the immediately flip flop on it and say that its a bad plan now, just because a new plan came up that benefits himself more. He's putting himself above the town as a whole; suddenly and for not much reason. (Which I also contend is completely different from what town rayn just did last game.) On April 08 2013 07:54 Keirathi wrote:@rayn: good, you're back First: ##UnvoteNow, let's talk a bit: Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: 1) How much time i devote to the game depends on how much time i have available. I have not ahd much time this weekend. What are you defending here? WHY are you defensive? I didn't call you out for lurking/not contributing/whatever. Weird opening statement. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: How i play also depends on the setup. It's very different when everyone is vanilla or when everyone has roles. You are making a meta case and later on you say you are not even sure about my meta. How do you think anyone is going to believe you if you are not sure yourself? You're right to an extent. I said that I hadn't read your scum meta. But everything about your play has been so glaringly different from the way you JUST played as town. Why? "Because the game is different" isn't an excuse for thinking and behaving completely differently. You didn't specifically call it dumb. I was...paraphrasing, a bit. And that post you just linked came before the post where I said you were calling geript's plan dumb, which is even weirder. Let's look at the progression, exactly: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 01:20 geript wrote: New plan: Instead of having a set 'draft list' in that say people drafting from 1-4 need to choose from a list of ABCD roles. People drafting from 5-8 need to draft from a list of EFGH, etc. etc. This makes it very risky for Scum to draft both outside of their own list and inside of their own list. This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Combine Vivax' + Geript's ideas and let these guys pick [1][1], [2][1], [3][1], [4][1], [5][1] (everyone else picks [6->] [X]):
Then: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. geript's plan was exactly that: the people in the first 4 slots (aka pod, in this case) would be limited to a certain pod of picks. You said that was unarguably the best plan for town. Then changed your mind and are saying it's a bad plan. That's what I was getting at, here. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: There is no reason to push any plans further when people reacted to any plans like they did. 3/4 of the people said "fuck all the plans", "i'm gonna do whatever they want so fu" or "it takes all the fun out of the game". What's the point of discussing any plans further when you already know it's not gonna happen anyways? At least i fucking provided a plan that had four town reads in it for people to discuss but no.. Everyone just hopped right over that part.. Ugh, I hate this kind of excuse. "No one else was doing anything, so I refuse to do anything too!" YOU were the one saying that the top picks needed some kind of cooperation. Why didn't you try to get any? You just got your top pick, and buggered off. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: TLDR; - Strange reads with no progression or reasoning - maybe you should have asked me about those reads then if you do not know where my head is at. Now you are just calling me scum because you think i have not reasoned my reads well enough yet you have had no intention to even find out why my reads are what they are. It's not my job to find out why you spew out bullshit reads with no explanation. The onus is on you to explain yourself. But again, that isn't even my point AT ALL. My entire point was that the way you are acquiring those reads is entirely inconsistent with how you acquired reads in Red Team. In Red Team, you saw something you didn't like, and either made a case right there, or you started poking and prodding at the person, questioning them and their motives. This game you just drop a name. Why so different? Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: - uncooperative - I see myself being the most cooperative peron before we got our roles. there are a lot of people who are way more uncooperative. After the roles were out i have had basically no time to think about the game, but that's gonna change now. Again, missed the whole point. You said that the top picks needed to be cooperative with picking powerful roles/denying scum roles. But didn't try to cooperate at all with the top picks once the draft order came out. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: - excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks - rofl, why wouldn't you want to be #1 person picking? How is this alignment indicative at all? Actually, scum would more likely try to avoid being the #1 picker because that automatically gives you a lot of attention and less chances to fakeclaim later if needed. Also the top guys are gonna get killed anyways early on as they probably have the "best" roles in the game. If they do not die it brings more attention to them. I already addressed that. No, trying to get yourself in a top pick isn't scummy, in itself. Rapidly changing your mind to a plan that benefits you more, personally, than town, and then refusing to back up your opinions on cooperating with the other top picks is scummy, though. I'm looking forward to seeing what you contribute today, though. Hopefully you can change my mind. ##Unvote: KeirathiRegarding Artanis I'm going to do some more reading tonight, but he has some posts that I find quite townie. I think they show that he is trying to contribute, as well as a clear thought process in attempting to help the town determine what is best in the draft phase. On April 04 2013 17:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote: So if I'm getting things right we plan on giving strong town reads effectively VT roles, correct? Though the idea of stopping strong scum roles is appealing, there are a myriad of strong roles in the game and I don't think sacrificing strong townreads that can pick early (and therefore are unlikely to be blocked by anyone) VT roles just to stop scum from picking certain roles is good. 1. They'll know exactly what X players before them picked so they can dodge roles that would otherwise make them VT. 2. Strong townreads end up with a public VT role rather than being able to help town beyond their scumhunting. 3. The townVT to scumVT balance will shift heavily in scum's favour 4. If there's scum before the last strong townread assigned to a scumrole, it could easily be sniped anyway. I think it's best if everyone hides their picks since it'll give scum the least amount of information and prevent them from having safe picks. Gives critical input on a plan as opposed to negative input, and has his first iteration of a plan: Everyone pick as discretely as possible. On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. Again giving critical input and creating a new plan, or at the very least a new iteration in Yamato's plan. On April 04 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. No one's actually addressed this yet, especially Yamato which I find strange as it's an improvement upon his plan. I'd propose we use it for 2 roles at the most though. Past that, it just becomes too unreliable. I don't like the VT claiming idea. Players that ended up with a VT role are still important to town in one way: Taking hits that would otherwise land on blues. I don't think the info gained on roles is worth this downside. There might be exceptions in certain situations (such as a player high up in the list claiming VT when he tried to pick a scummy role), but as the norm I'd be against it. Brings up his idea again, stating he believes it's an improvement to the plan, and again is applying critical thinking about the picking strategies that others are proposing. I don't see this as "hiding in set up speculation" I see this as someone applying critical thought as to how the town can start the game off with the most advantageous, and start the mafia off with the least. On April 05 2013 08:21 Artanis[Xp] wrote: The accountability is a good point actually, I hadn't thought about that yet. Hm. Still think it's better than doing nothing at all though since without any rules at all there's no accountability anyway. Will sleep on it. He takes criticism on his plan well, says he'll take time to think about it. To me it reads really townie,especially because of a later post where he brings up that the route town was going had no accountability. His posts to me show the thought process of someone trying to min/max the drafting system, and follows a plausible planning process. As I said earlier, I'll take a further look into him, and read the cases more thoroughly, but to me he reads as at least decently townie. I'm going to post this now, I'll be reading and writing for a (hopefully) larger post, so if anyone else is going to be on for a bit, let's chat about someone, I'll even let you pick who. Deflecting away from Artanis. On April 08 2013 11:21 Sharrant wrote:@StrongandBig Hi! I'll try and give you a sort of stream of consciousness on this one, and hopefully that will actually help me figure out where I stand on him. I've read through his filter a few times and I always notice things that send me in opposite directions on his alignment. + Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:25 ObviousOne wrote:Okay duders, raid night is over. Going for a quick re-read of the past half day after I post this since I've been tabbing out to catch what I could during down time. First impressions: I saw that Oats is/was under some suspicion (just going from memory, don't recall if it was talked out or not) but Oats is Oats; he's a bit all over the place but I don't see the same intent to shut things down that someone mentioned earlier. He was just as loud and all-over in RED. Null still. RO seems to want to be more helpful than I remember him being as scum in LX, not feeling what you guys that are suspicious of him are feeling there, either. Got my eye on Rayn at the moment. His style was spammy but usually constructive (at least in telling us what he was thinking) and I've got none of that after the first couple pages of his filter. Ten one-liners in a row or something, doesn't match up to his standard attacking pattern from RED. The attacks there were thought-out, here they mostly look like casual accusations perhaps fishing for reactions? The only points he has going for him is that he's absolutely confused about what is going on regarding the draft process: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 12:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Should we have our roles by now? Rayn, if you are serious about RO being scum then lay if out for me in one clean concise post, and if you are not, who are you most suspicious of right now? Or are you just drunk again?
Other stuff: Most of the chat was about planning how to set up the top spots to get roles protected, is that still a thing? I'm spot 2 somehow, and I was thinking about taking America because America, fuck yeah! Is that going to make me a Pariah or something? Girls just wanna have fun, you know? I'll use it as a second lynch like was suggested yesterday or I can just sit on it if you guys are paranoid about it. Going back for that re-read and making some coffee. See you in a bit when I'm finished with that. PS: Seriously guys, the spam, cut it out, I decided to avoid large games because of the sheer volume of posts so please be less liberal with one-liners, thank you! This post felt very airy, it certainly felt to me like a post that was primarily summation. There are some good questions in there, but there's no hard stances. The closest he comes to that is that he says he's got his eye on Rayn, but then never specifically says he was scummy. Points out he doesn't give fit his previous town meta, but then he gives him an out on it anyways saying that he might be fishing for reactions. I actually noticed something that really has me leaning towards scum on him now. He makes 2 posts specifically stating for people not to spam, and has several posts insulting BM for making small spammy posts with no content. I read this as townie when I first skimmed through his filter, but looking at it again There's something very wrong. + Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:25 ObviousOne wrote:.
PS: Seriously guys, the spam, cut it out, I decided to avoid large games because of the sheer volume of posts so please be less liberal with one-liners, thank you! On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote: ... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 12:16 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 12:13 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 12:11 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 12:01 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 11:51 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 11:43 Bill Murray wrote: DECONDUO WHAT ARE YOUR READS ON WHO ARE WHAT? Palmar is afk, but that's normal.FoS Deconduo On April 05 2013 01:29 Palmar wrote: I always suck at PYP games because I find the role discussion so boring I skip it. PTP 1: 3 posts before Day 1 PTP 2: 8 posts before Day 1 PYP Redux: 7 posts before Day 1 PYP Boardwalk: 18 posts before Day 1 Unless you're saying he's less afk than normal, I don't know why you think I'm wrong. well i guess he doesnt play like me anymore You say that like it's a bad thing. Look at his posts: + Show Spoiler +On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 09:59 Restraining Order wrote:In fact, I'm just going to quote myself on this matter. On April 05 2013 11:30 Restraining Order wrote: Pick assassin and try to kill me with please.
That way I don't actually die to your stupidity.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll stop reading your posts henceforth. Wouldn't be a problem if you'd actually think I'm mafia I'll indulge your soft town claim for a moment and simply ask you why your list contains 9 people. If you can justify all 9 in some way at least we'll know whether or not you're talking the breeze with these myriad suspicions. On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote: EBWOP: Oops, looks like I miscounted, make that 10. On April 06 2013 10:08 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 10:06 Restraining Order wrote:On April 06 2013 10:03 ObviousOne wrote: EBWOP: Oops, looks like I miscounted, make that 10. No, it's 9. I have no idea where VE got the Caller thing from, and it's sad you just take his word. If I've misread it please tell me how. It won't be the first time. I spent like 24 hours in Fruity misreading every little thing so just straighten me out instead of spitting in my face, thx. On April 06 2013 10:09 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 10:08 VisceraEyes wrote: Actually I misread the quote-pyramid. He was saying he wanted to lynch Kier when I thought he was replying to Caller. My mistake. .... On April 06 2013 11:28 ObviousOne wrote: WTF are all these random ass reads BM? Is this what you always do? On April 06 2013 11:38 ObviousOne wrote:RIGHT ABOUT WHAT PLEASE TYPE MORE JESUS FUCK On April 06 2013 12:16 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 12:13 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 12:11 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 12:01 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 11:51 deconduo wrote:On April 06 2013 11:43 Bill Murray wrote: DECONDUO WHAT ARE YOUR READS ON WHO ARE WHAT? Palmar is afk, but that's normal.FoS Deconduo On April 05 2013 01:29 Palmar wrote: I always suck at PYP games because I find the role discussion so boring I skip it. PTP 1: 3 posts before Day 1 PTP 2: 8 posts before Day 1 PYP Redux: 7 posts before Day 1 PYP Boardwalk: 18 posts before Day 1 Unless you're saying he's less afk than normal, I don't know why you think I'm wrong. well i guess he doesnt play like me anymore You say that like it's a bad thing. On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote: ... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 13:29 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote: ... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. Okay I'm laughing my ass off at this but really, three dot points or something. Substance, please. Who do you want to lynch D1? On April 06 2013 13:52 ObviousOne wrote:... not sure what to make of this but way to leave yourself open to accusations of a scum slip. Wow that's really bad looking. Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:37 geript wrote:I figured out why I don't like the case on RestrainingOrder at all. In The Game, I got to watch both Bugs and Kita push absolute bullshit towards town's direct. It was well crafted bullshit, but bullshit none the less. VE's case is an exact example of this type of thing for a few reasons: 1. The townread/lynch stuff + Show Spoiler +On April 06 2013 09:42 VisceraEyes wrote: So RO wants to lynch inside [Caller, Palmar, Decon, VE, Kierathi, Artanis, austin, OO, Vivax, sn0] before D1 starts. That's cool I guess, but some of those names sound familiar. Where have I seen those names before? ... Oh that's right. In that OTHER post where he made a list and said "4/5 are townies", he wants to lynch 3/5 of them. This is the exact type of thing that we as scum would jump on. Any little thing that we could catch where town fucked up, changed reads, etc. It's perfect to attack because it seems so simple and plausible. Town in general are not going to be filtering themselves constantly to see their positions, know where they stood on exact people, etc. Whereas as scum, we were quite often referencing ourselves to see what stances were plausible for us to take. I can't wholly ignore the possibility that RO may just be lazy scum, hell he lurked most of LX until his teammate shot him. However, it's stupid to think that this early on that scum would make a slip this big. It's far more likely to be bad/stupid town. This isn't particularly scummy. On April 06 2013 13:57 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:54 Bill Murray wrote:On April 06 2013 13:28 Mocsta wrote:@ArtanisXpI would like to continue discussion regarding your Geript case. Specifically, your qualms with Geripts wishy-washiness on whether I am town as follows: + Show Spoiler [Artanis on Geript] +On April 06 2013 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote: I'm not saying that you haven't done anything not town Mocsta-ish. There's just a very specific heuristic that town Mocsta seems to follow that you haven't hit on yet for me. I'm leaning town on you but until you get that one aspect I have a hard time putting you there fully.
As for your posting, I really like it. Translates to: =============================== On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote:Hi, I think you're being townie, but you're not being you-townie, yet I still think you're townie but I'm not sure if you're townie. Oh and I think you're pretty townie. =============================== Why on earth would a townie post this? WHY?Mocsta wasn't even close to being in danger, and the town motivation for calling someone town, then suspicious, then town eludes me. What I find curious about the above, is when we start discussing Geript and you comment the below: + Show Spoiler [Artanis WishyWashy] +On April 06 2013 09:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I had you as weak town before our exchange, and the post you made questioned that read, so I questioned you. At first I thought it made you null again, but rereading it I realized that your wishy-washy post wouldn't make sense if Geript is scum, because he created an easy way for you to defend him which you denied. Since I believe Geript to be scum that makes you fairly town. On April 06 2013 09:16 Mocsta wrote: Lol.. and if he is town.. what then? On April 06 2013 09:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote: [red]Then you'd be null again. I find this interchange ironic, as you flip flop regarding my alignment much to the same manner Geript does. Let me guess, the heuristic doesnt apply to your play?
Further, I shall ask the same question I asked Geript. On April 05 2013 15:18 Mocsta wrote: Im not sure why I need to know you have me as town though? Nor why everyone else needs to know?
Im asking because, Im still trying to figure out if that affects my perception of you. town are more likely to flip flop than mafia On April 06 2013 13:29 ObviousOne wrote:On April 06 2013 13:26 ObviousOne wrote: ... Bill we went over this about the spamming -- you've got ~14 posts on this page alone.
Summarize your VE meta and compare it to this game and show me how he's so definitively town. In one post. On April 06 2013 13:26 Bill Murray wrote: meta Okay I'm laughing my ass off at this but really, three dot points or something. Substance, please. Who do you want to lynch D1? AustinMCC at this point is betraying his blue meta as a lurker that I've seen He had a plan that would help the mafia, too, in regards to town picking from the mafia role list It wouldn't surprise me at all to see the mafia have taken from more "town" roles than "mafia" ones By that token, I don't expect there is a Godfather So do you know who is mafia or are you saying AustinMCC is a town read of yours? ALL of those posts were one after another. They're spread out over 4 hours, but it's 11 posts that are almost entirely one liners, some without even any text. Yet he was saying don't spam, make good quality posts. Why wasn't he doing that too? + Show Spoiler +On April 08 2013 08:24 ObviousOne wrote: Also sorry to dine and dash but my cousin wants to hang out, back in a few hours if I manage to be wakeful when I get home.
Oh, gotta vote too. On April 08 2013 09:58 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 09:54 Palmar wrote: I think it's mafia defending me, I look too scummy for townies to defend me.
why is there no machine gun role that can kill like 8 people on day 1, I'd have liked that.
Also there really is not enough killing this game. Bored Walk Empire Mafiyawn: Pull Your Pud =[ On April 08 2013 10:25 ObviousOne wrote: Undertaker 21-0 GG no RE On April 08 2013 10:31 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 10:30 strongandbig wrote:On April 08 2013 09:46 Sharrant wrote:Well, I can't think of anyone who commented on my Keirathi case, but here's an update for no one. + Show Spoiler +He's off my scum list after these posts. They look much more like his town games. In his scum games he's more political in his posts. In his two scum games he's had disagreements but always contested things conservatively, compared to his town games like Red where he called bullshit twenty or so times on the first day. On April 07 2013 14:57 Keirathi wrote:EBWOP: Oh, what the fuck. Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote: StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now.
Explain the bolded. Because it sounds like made up bullshit. On April 07 2013 15:28 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 15:09 geript wrote: Honestly Keirathi, I don't feel great about Rayn, but I don't want to put too much stock in a meta read from one game especially when I don't know much of anything about Rayn. I could see someone going for a plan that puts them early in the draft order regardless of alignment.
As for S&B I'd like to hear his response, but I like your points about how he seems to find the draft/picking phase important but doesn't actually contribute anything to them at all. So go look at his filters from past games. Dismissing a meta read because you're too lazy to look at the meta yourself is just...wtfboggle. And my point wasn't that he was just pushing a plan to get himself high in the draft order. Yes, a townie could do that too. What I don't think a townie would do is specifically say that one plan was undeniably the best plan for town, the immediately flip flop on it and say that its a bad plan now, just because a new plan came up that benefits himself more. He's putting himself above the town as a whole; suddenly and for not much reason. (Which I also contend is completely different from what town rayn just did last game.) On April 08 2013 07:54 Keirathi wrote:@rayn: good, you're back First: ##UnvoteNow, let's talk a bit: Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: 1) How much time i devote to the game depends on how much time i have available. I have not ahd much time this weekend. What are you defending here? WHY are you defensive? I didn't call you out for lurking/not contributing/whatever. Weird opening statement. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: How i play also depends on the setup. It's very different when everyone is vanilla or when everyone has roles. You are making a meta case and later on you say you are not even sure about my meta. How do you think anyone is going to believe you if you are not sure yourself? You're right to an extent. I said that I hadn't read your scum meta. But everything about your play has been so glaringly different from the way you JUST played as town. Why? "Because the game is different" isn't an excuse for thinking and behaving completely differently. You didn't specifically call it dumb. I was...paraphrasing, a bit. And that post you just linked came before the post where I said you were calling geript's plan dumb, which is even weirder. Let's look at the progression, exactly: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 01:20 geript wrote: New plan: Instead of having a set 'draft list' in that say people drafting from 1-4 need to choose from a list of ABCD roles. People drafting from 5-8 need to draft from a list of EFGH, etc. etc. This makes it very risky for Scum to draft both outside of their own list and inside of their own list. This is absolytely the best plan and the only one i'm going to support. We just need to find out what the roles are that we put to 1-4, 5-8, etc. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: I also support Vivax' idea if i get to be #1, Geript #2, and yamato, Mocsta, Sharrant #3-#5. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Combine Vivax' + Geript's ideas and let these guys pick [1][1], [2][1], [3][1], [4][1], [5][1] (everyone else picks [6->] [X]):
Then: Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. geript's plan was exactly that: the people in the first 4 slots (aka pod, in this case) would be limited to a certain pod of picks. You said that was unarguably the best plan for town. Then changed your mind and are saying it's a bad plan. That's what I was getting at, here. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: There is no reason to push any plans further when people reacted to any plans like they did. 3/4 of the people said "fuck all the plans", "i'm gonna do whatever they want so fu" or "it takes all the fun out of the game". What's the point of discussing any plans further when you already know it's not gonna happen anyways? At least i fucking provided a plan that had four town reads in it for people to discuss but no.. Everyone just hopped right over that part.. Ugh, I hate this kind of excuse. "No one else was doing anything, so I refuse to do anything too!" YOU were the one saying that the top picks needed some kind of cooperation. Why didn't you try to get any? You just got your top pick, and buggered off. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: TLDR; - Strange reads with no progression or reasoning - maybe you should have asked me about those reads then if you do not know where my head is at. Now you are just calling me scum because you think i have not reasoned my reads well enough yet you have had no intention to even find out why my reads are what they are. It's not my job to find out why you spew out bullshit reads with no explanation. The onus is on you to explain yourself. But again, that isn't even my point AT ALL. My entire point was that the way you are acquiring those reads is entirely inconsistent with how you acquired reads in Red Team. In Red Team, you saw something you didn't like, and either made a case right there, or you started poking and prodding at the person, questioning them and their motives. This game you just drop a name. Why so different? Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: - uncooperative - I see myself being the most cooperative peron before we got our roles. there are a lot of people who are way more uncooperative. After the roles were out i have had basically no time to think about the game, but that's gonna change now. Again, missed the whole point. You said that the top picks needed to be cooperative with picking powerful roles/denying scum roles. But didn't try to cooperate at all with the top picks once the draft order came out. Show nested quote +On April 08 2013 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: - excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks - rofl, why wouldn't you want to be #1 person picking? How is this alignment indicative at all? Actually, scum would more likely try to avoid being the #1 picker because that automatically gives you a lot of attention and less chances to fakeclaim later if needed. Also the top guys are gonna get killed anyways early on as they probably have the "best" roles in the game. If they do not die it brings more attention to them. I already addressed that. No, trying to get yourself in a top pick isn't scummy, in itself. Rapidly changing your mind to a plan that benefits you more, personally, than town, and then refusing to back up your opinions on cooperating with the other top picks is scummy, though. I'm looking forward to seeing what you contribute today, though. Hopefully you can change my mind. ##Unvote: KeirathiRegarding Artanis I'm going to do some more reading tonight, but he has some posts that I find quite townie. I think they show that he is trying to contribute, as well as a clear thought process in attempting to help the town determine what is best in the draft phase. On April 04 2013 17:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote: So if I'm getting things right we plan on giving strong town reads effectively VT roles, correct? Though the idea of stopping strong scum roles is appealing, there are a myriad of strong roles in the game and I don't think sacrificing strong townreads that can pick early (and therefore are unlikely to be blocked by anyone) VT roles just to stop scum from picking certain roles is good. 1. They'll know exactly what X players before them picked so they can dodge roles that would otherwise make them VT. 2. Strong townreads end up with a public VT role rather than being able to help town beyond their scumhunting. 3. The townVT to scumVT balance will shift heavily in scum's favour 4. If there's scum before the last strong townread assigned to a scumrole, it could easily be sniped anyway. I think it's best if everyone hides their picks since it'll give scum the least amount of information and prevent them from having safe picks. Gives critical input on a plan as opposed to negative input, and has his first iteration of a plan: Everyone pick as discretely as possible. On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. Again giving critical input and creating a new plan, or at the very least a new iteration in Yamato's plan. On April 04 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. No one's actually addressed this yet, especially Yamato which I find strange as it's an improvement upon his plan. I'd propose we use it for 2 roles at the most though. Past that, it just becomes too unreliable. I don't like the VT claiming idea. Players that ended up with a VT role are still important to town in one way: Taking hits that would otherwise land on blues. I don't think the info gained on roles is worth this downside. There might be exceptions in certain situations (such as a player high up in the list claiming VT when he tried to pick a scummy role), but as the norm I'd be against it. Brings up his idea again, stating he believes it's an improvement to the plan, and again is applying critical thinking about the picking strategies that others are proposing. I don't see this as "hiding in set up speculation" I see this as someone applying critical thought as to how the town can start the game off with the most advantageous, and start the mafia off with the least. On April 05 2013 08:21 Artanis[Xp] wrote: The accountability is a good point actually, I hadn't thought about that yet. Hm. Still think it's better than doing nothing at all though since without any rules at all there's no accountability anyway. Will sleep on it. He takes criticism on his plan well, says he'll take time to think about it. To me it reads really townie,especially because of a later post where he brings up that the route town was going had no accountability. His posts to me show the thought process of someone trying to min/max the drafting system, and follows a plausible planning process. As I said earlier, I'll take a further look into him, and read the cases more thoroughly, but to me he reads as at least decently townie. I'm going to post this now, I'll be reading and writing for a (hopefully) larger post, so if anyone else is going to be on for a bit, let's chat about someone, I'll even let you pick who. hi sharrant i don't think you are right in interpreting those posts as townie, those are things scum could do as well - both because setup discussion is always fertile ground for scum to grow the rare towncred-flower, and because it was (or at least, it seemed to me) clear that this town was too fractious for a real plan to come together. that said i like that you are taking this seriously and giving real thought to what you're saying it seems like you haven't been commenting much on stuff since the end of the setup phase but that may be because you play more like i did when i was a new player, with a lot of full sentences and capitalization and well-thought-out posts so how about lets talk about a player? I randomly chose obviousone. i wrote up a few sentences about his post about artanis, how about you do the same and then we can both post ours after i finish my next dota game? Commercial break. Come at me bro. On April 08 2013 10:46 ObviousOne wrote: Mocsta. I love you dearly. Please make paragraphs.
Or
I'll
Do
This
Just
To
Explain
Why
It's
Annoying
And
Difficult
To
Read. On April 08 2013 10:52 ObviousOne wrote: @Mocsta
<3 never change Look at all the spam there. And the kicker, On April 08 2013 10:28 ObviousOne wrote:On April 08 2013 10:24 Mocsta wrote: Gonzaw Unrelated question.
Do you think I spamming up the thread?
I am asking because my last couple posts have all been big text walls; and not sure if Im getting my message across succinctly at the moment.
Who cares at this point. Give the lurkers a shit load of posts to read when they get back. Let them cry. Let them complain. They will sheep anyway. Your question wouldn't even be relevant if everyone was participating. Be the Mocsta we know and love. Fuck the haters. Straight up saying to spam. Call it a joke, or whatever, but that kind of conflicting mindset isn't townie. ##vote: ObviousOneYou can't stay in line with your own thinking at all, I think that's because you're scum. Chainsaw Artanis. But I think this is the kicker: On April 08 2013 12:45 Sharrant wrote: I'm pretty much 100% sure that that was an assassin kill. Gonzaw pretty much gave away his role earlier when he was figuring that he could withhold his shot today and have any possibility of surviving until the next day and being able to shoot. This makes Sinani look worse for fishing for his role now that it is fairly likely that scum have an assassin.
It is possible that he was day vigi'd, but that is much much less likely in my opinion. This was almost immediately after the gonzaw shot. At the time, Mocsta and I (and maybe a few others), were floundering a bit about what role killed gonzaw. In strolls Sharrant being 100% sure it was an assassin kill (and remember, he's been hard defending the actual assassin). Keep reading a bit after that and see how the rest of the conversation went down. He tried to flip it to make Mocsta scummy, and he seemed to have put an extraordinary amount of thought into gonzaw being Jack before he flipped for a "townie". So yea, Sharrant is scum. And with that, I sleeps. G'nite! Look at this. He thinks Sharrant is chainsawing onto OO but qualifies with: Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 17:42 Keirathi wrote: EBWOP:
1 last thing. I think we have 2 scum between Sharrant, sinani, and Vivax. Maybe OO.
I think our lynch candidates for the day should be out of them. I'm going to drop my vote on Sharrant and sinani, and we can talk tomorrow. But seems to be thinking OO is likely scum or knowing he is: Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 10:59 Keirathi wrote:On April 11 2013 10:53 geript wrote: Sharrant not likely scum. Shelvocke not likely scum. OO not likely scum. MZ is a big ?? Best lynch of those 4. Why not OO? You seem to be overly reliant on this "scum didn't double pick" heuristic. OO didn't double pick with anyone as far as I can tell. Earlier you said "There are likely exactly 2 scum within the people who picked 1-5", which includes OO, except you never talked about him again. Read his filter and tell me he gives an actual reason for suspecting OO on D2. On April 13 2013 05:37 geript wrote: If myself and BM die tonight, please nuke Kei. Kthnxbai Day starts - relevant quotes: On April 13 2013 12:09 geript wrote: So mocsta, what did you think of my points? On April 13 2013 12:30 Keirathi wrote: I checked BM.
He is scum.
##Vote: Bill Murray On April 13 2013 12:31 geript wrote: Well that makes this easy... Throw the Holy Hand Grenade at Bill Murray Keirathi, geript's main scumread, announces red check, and geript immediately kills him, saying it's easy. That doesn't make any sense. Geript clearly didn't have the balls to doubt the check of his main scumread, and that's extremely scummy. This case is really bad, but I'm not sure if that necessarily indicates that Vivax is mafia. Do you think so? I'm not looking into Vivax' alignment with this line of conversation. I never thought twice about what geript did, because despite his doubts about Keir's alignment, it's absolutely stupid to ignore a red check. Plus, killing BM is a way of confirming Keir, to an extent. My point is Vivax didn't think twice about it either, but tries to lynch him anyways.
Last protip if you wanna find out for yourselves: It has nothing at all to do with the redcheck.
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gee, thanks for spoiling the fun geript.
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On April 17 2013 05:40 geript wrote:... I've been trying to say it since day 2 nobody listened to me then so I see very little reason to start spouting it now. But you still spouted it before I could get a proper read on yamato out of it (((
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On April 17 2013 10:29 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2013 10:19 Mocsta wrote: Guys stop it pls.
I have been going through vote thread.
I wanted to.compare yam to.vivax but i noticed.something.different.
Im.on phone. Too hars to.quote. Sorry. But we been fighting with each othwr.
Scum is lurking in the shadow with a green check telling us what we want to.hear.
Just like randombum in mafia lx.
Scum is sinani
Let me walk the points.and feel free to critically evaluate.
Day 1 sinani.votes snb with bm.. This swt off.my radar already.
Remaining cycles he always follows thread sentiment. And ignores all attempts to.communicate with him.
Day1 thwre was the scum.slip with ve. The be safe i give null with tinge of.red.
But kicker is in that post he votes snb.
So why is it a kicker?
A couple posts down.he responda to gonzaw requeat for a vig shot. And says.BM.
Out of.no.where. Fuethwr. Bm had a vote on.snb before.sinani put a vote down.
Thats outright weird. Doeant feel natural and we kmow scum were bussing each other hard. Sinani fits into that pattern.
Since scum been getting lynched. He juat shuts up and follows sentiment. Makes sense why no concede too. Hes never been under pressure.
Sinani needs to go. Im happy with shevlocke foe this cycle as number two.
If that doeant work. Vivax.next. Then oats. Look, it's real easy: Tomorrow he needs to activate double lynch again. If he doesn't, we lynch him. Solves any problems. cause if he activates double-lynch, he's not lying about his role bonus, thus not mafia because the greencheck is for real. (he'd be last mafia member and nothing else they had can change flips) So by activating double-lynch, he is absolutely, beyond any doubt, town. And we can always vote for no-lynch on the second lynch, if you don't wanna rush it, but I'd be in favor of using both lynches straight. Doesn't matter too much though. So yeah tl;dr sinani can't even win if he's scum, and he can do shit to guarantee he isn't in the first place. and here i thought i had the hang of it
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On April 17 2013 10:42 geript wrote: Do you think he'd get double vote rig? While I do, that doesn't matter, point is it's a bonus that's NOT gf.
I highly doubt he'd get 2 different ones, one of them having absolutely zero to do with his role.
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On April 17 2013 13:40 Shelvocke wrote: My activity has nothing to do with my alignment. But hey, I guess if you don't know how to read or analyze, that's one way to pick a lynch candidate. I've heard that Ouija boards are pretty effective - you guys should try those too!
I'm still voting for Vivax and Oatsmaster. Do whatever the hell you want. You seem to think that people didn't read your filter, and if they did they wouldn't want to lynch you.
It just so happens that I read your filter, and want to lynch you.
Thus, I will indeed do whatever the hell I want.
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Dunno he's a lot more boring to lynch. Doesn't even flail a little bit.
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On April 18 2013 06:26 yamato77 wrote: So you're confirming your "Vivax is teh best lynch" with the idea that he's tryharding today? I was comparing shelvie to you, not vivax.
And vivax' tryharding yesterday has not made me reconsider my read.
So, no, I'm not confirming that with this.
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