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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
The basic level is that they figured out Gonzaw was a jack and that gonzaw is a strong town player. There is no more motivation needed, anything else is a bonus. Especially since I'm not actually scum and it gives a great argument to push my lynch home. The timing is convenient as well. Give gonzaw plenty of time to hammer his point through rather than immediately after his case to make sure it's still on everyone's mind. Come on Yamato, think critically here. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
You're also forgetting that Gonzaw had a vig shot and he wasn't planning on using it on me. Now that's a far more likely for a shot. My lynch is unlikely to be prevented by a Gonzaw death, but his vig shot is certain to be nullified. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On April 08 2013 17:43 Mocsta wrote: Wifom at its best sir. Firstly. As I pointed out prior. To those role hunting. Gonzaw outted himself about 12hrs ago. Yes the reasons u listed are completely valid reasons to kill him. Its also possible they waited for an opportune time. U know. 2 birds 1 stone. But ultimately as yam pointed out. There is no way to ascertain when the kill order was given. So its all wifom. Hence ur point with timing is wifom. And the points against it are just as wifommy. I'm not saying his death makes me town. I'm saying it definitely doesn't make me scummier, perhaps even a slight bit townier for the part I just posted. Simple take is. He dead and scum assassin confirmed in the game. Its a popular role, so could even surmise its in the top 8 picks. I agree with that notion. P.s. I re read your filter. My thoughts haven't changed. And in hindsight, ur plan wasn't that pro town. U only wanted one or two ppl to RNG, at their liberty. Actually, that was at the start. Later I figured I wanted as many people as possible to claim to RNG. They wouldn't actually have to RNG, just to put that fear into scum's heads. It's a better plan than doing nothing for sure. And importantly, u even said it was only relevant if the yam plan got traction. Yeah u pushed it a couple times, but considering u were aware it success hinged upon the traction of something else. Its not even a good plan at face value. No I didn't, I said it was an objective improvement upon Yamato's plan, and a plan with no drawbacks. Later I campaigned for it saying there are no downsides for it and had a small argument about it with Rayn I believe. Lastly, in ur gonzaw defends. I'm having a very hard time believing u when u state u overplayed the geript case more than u felt it was worth. To me it felt like u were banking on it pretty hard. Read the Promethelax post I linked in my defense. Look at how I responded to it. I'm trying to learn from it, and I think I did so successfully since it made me go from leaning scum on him to leaning town due to said pressure. Second lastly, u said u was going to scum hunt. All I have seen is a large list post, nominating some as scummy. With zero followup or pressure. I was working on making a spreadsheet and diving through everyone's filter one by one but that took too much time so I decided to read up on everyone who had a vote today since I figured that was more important. My conclusions have been posted and the cases for those I found suspicious have already been made. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On April 08 2013 17:48 Mocsta wrote: What's ya point artanis. Your conclusion is ur death won't be prevented. So why argue whether yam thinks u sscummier post gonzaw. Sounds to me like u trying to shit up the thread Because I think it's a bullshit reason and I'm calling people out for voting on me for bullshit reasons. Are you not interested in people jumping on my bandwagon, or is anyone that votes me automatically town? | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On April 08 2013 17:50 yamato77 wrote: Fine, let's talk about something else. What's your read on Sinani? Hadn't checked on him yet. Just browsed through his filter and it's dreadful. His only post that says anything is awful as well. On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote: I first want to say that this thread is spammed up to almost the point of unreadable... This is not how Town wins games. Secondly, out of the current lynch candidates, here are my opinions: VisceraEyes: I was leaning scum before and he hasn't really done anything to change my mind besides participating a little bit more. To be on the safe side, I'll say null with a red tinge. Keirathi: Null atm, nothing pointing him at being scum, but don't want to say definitely townie so soon. I just played in RTP with him and he seems to be playing rather similarly, so if I had to pick I'd say town. Restraining Order: Very difficult to read, so I'll wait to see more of him and on him. StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now. ##Vote: StrongandBig Why is he trying to be safe? It looks like he's trying hard to not call VE scum despite everything he typed prior to it leading up to it pointing towards wanting to call him scum, then calls him null in the end. Very questionable, and I'm curious to hear what he has to say about S&B since he's returned to the thread, something Sinani's conveniently ignored despite posting after S&B returned. He's just not bothered to comment on it altogether. Yeah I don't like Sinani at all. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On April 08 2013 17:54 Mocsta wrote: I will come back to u later artanis when I have comp access. BTW, u dodged my query about pressure/follow up with ya scumspects. I don't care who u think is town or scum. I care how u go about scum hunting. I didn't. I said that I was working on a spreadsheet but it was costing me too much time which I didn't have, so I went for what I did instead. Even though they're "summaries" they came from digging into their filters. I reached my own conclusions. On April 08 2013 17:56 Mocsta wrote: No. But yam is town regardless of voting u. Frankly I'm surprised u aren't reacting to bill Murray. That was a scummy as fuck vote if I seen one. Yet here u antagonise a player u know will bite back. Henceforth: shitting up the thread No one is confirmed town, stop being dumb. Reads change all the time. I'm reacting to people who are in the thread right now and things I find suspicious about them. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On April 08 2013 12:14 Bill Murray wrote: Sinani, how can you sheep my case, then ask for me to be shot? Questions Sinani, never follows it up with anything. Though Sinani hasn't returned to the thread yet since this post, it's a valid question and it's strange how the following happened literally an hour later. BM was willing to investigate first, asked someone a question then an hour later he's sheeping Mocsta and Yamato and claims he didn't read the thread. Sounds more like an excuse to dodge responsibility. I'm not liking BM, but BM is BM which makes me hesitant. He would make an excellent vig target, though. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On April 08 2013 18:25 Mocsta wrote: This puts me in a quandry; I can't see scum leading a bandwagon on another scum. Artanis, are you going to be online in 4 to 5 hrs time? I should be home at 5pm CEST and have some time then. I should be working right now honestly. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On April 08 2013 18:31 Mocsta wrote: i dunno wat 5pm cest means heheh its 5:30 here, and im afk for next 3-4 hrs There's a convenient timer for you at the top right corner. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On April 08 2013 20:53 Caller wrote: stop goznaw got shot to me logical explanation is simple: artanis is a day vig and from the looks of things is going to be lynched, but he wanted to use his power before he died. That's it. artanis claims before we lynch him. that's all that needs to be done. Artanis, claim. I claim that you're being an idiot if you think scum needed any more reason to shoot Gonzaw than knowing his role, knowing that everyone thinks he's town and knowing that he can shoot into scum. P.S: He wanted to get me lynched, not shot. How about taking a look at the list of players he was considering shooting into? | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On April 08 2013 21:07 Restraining Order wrote: People scared of claiming, when the assassin has already shot.. And since with mafia already having the assassin, they'd also pick one of the numerous rolecop options. So, he'll be able to shoot every day regardless of your claiming. Just saying. If I have a strong role, claiming can get me into all sorts of shit and get me roleblocked or roleswapped or whichever. If I have a defensive or detective role, claiming will make sure I can't trust my findings or get killed. If I have no role, claiming would be incredibly dumb because I'd want to soak up a hit at night which would no longer happen. No matter how you slice it, claiming is dumb. I still want to lynch Artanis, more than ever. Fuck the stupid wifom defenses some of you guys come up with. Solid case bro. Tell me, if you were in a scumteam would you need more than the reasons I underlined to shoot someone? Really? VE also still scum. I'm not sure how good the reasons to think he's NRA are, but I'd worry about that tomorrow. Today is Artanis-day. I'm happy to see VE die as well, but today is definitely not Artanis-day. Also I looked up Vivax' meta, Oats. I don't think he's scum. His OMGUS on you and the fact that he didn't put any pressure on anyone in the early game other than that rubs me the wrong way, but he's been picking it up since then and showing the stream of consciousness that I'm used to seeing from a town Vivax. In his LX scum game he had a lot of small posts with no real meaning and large posts whenever he thought it was time to make it look like he was contributing. His posting style in this game is very different from that. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On April 08 2013 21:56 Restraining Order wrote: It's not about NEEDING more. But if there ARE more, a mafiateam would gladly take it. In the end, this is a horrible point. I understand why you want to argue it, since it goes against you strongly, but that doesn't make it a good one by any stretch. Au contraire. No, that's dumb because if scum will shoot him 100% of the time for the reasons I stated then any potential extra reasons are completely moot. Did you read LVIII? Let's talk about who you want to lynch instead of yourself. You only defending yourself, it's getting boring. Why are you not pushing Shelvocke hardcore yet? I read LX and British Empire II. I'm talking about the people that I'm questioned about. Shelvocke hasn't even replied to any of this: + Show Spoiler [He's responded to none of this] + On April 08 2013 06:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Shelvocke His filter is fairly empty. His D1 plan was "pick whatever you like" then never actually pushed it. Rather than contributing to plans, he just calls all of them bad. Spends a lot of time on setup talk then jumps on the VE wagon as well. He never replies to the case made on him or any suspicion laid on him at all. Avoiding responsibility for his reads. There's really nothing in his filter to suggest towniness. Scum. On April 07 2013 10:57 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Alright so like I said earlier, I have a pretty strong scum read on Shevlocke and here’s why. What do these posts have in common? They are all worthless. Now this wouldn’t be such a problem except that he also has these posts: So there have been two options to speculate about worthless things so far (picking plans and who got what numbers), and shevlocke has jumped on them both. Does he have any reads? Thus far his one “scum read” is VE . His argument against VE is “he’s faking contributions by talking about irrelevant things” this is exactly what shevlocke himself has been doing which is ironic. So let’s quickly review, shevlocke has posted about both of the worthless topics the thread has discussed so far. On top of that, he accuses his only scum read of doing exactly what he himself is doing. Shevlocke is doing his best to blend in by providing “opinions” on the things that don’t matter and his one read is completely worthless. We’re not too far into day 1 but I want shevlocke’s name out there as a lynch candidate. On April 07 2013 11:43 austinmcc wrote: I'm actually really digging that Shelvocke read. Yes, most of the posts are worthless, but the VE vote feels weak as well. VE isn't reading/is faking a contribution. This can be scummy, but at this point in the game there are A LOT of players who fit that criteria. The second bit, VE being...hypocritical because he often is ridiculous and is suggesting people not be ridiculous is just dumb. I'm often an idiot. I don't suggest other people are. Some players are confusing/lurky, they don't suggest that other people be confusing/lurky. Heck, the VE personality in Personality 2 just poked at VE's claiming, which, if anything, should reinforce the idea that VE might not recommend to others that they play how he has in certain past games. Half that two sentence read is just...badwrong. The other half is true of a number of players, with no reason given why VE is singled out. And ze vote? 24 hours later. Not important because he didn't vote earlier, he couldn't, but important because discussion of VE has popped up here and there throughout the thread during those 24 hours. Shelvocke, who has really only called out VE at this point (apart from asking gonzaw if his secret scumread was snb (which he now adds to)), doesn't seem to care about anything that's been posted about/by VE during those 24 hours. Note that he HAS followed up on snb, looks to have reread snb before making that post. But his vote post on VE has more meat, more indication that Shelvocke is scumhunting, when he brings up snb, not VE, who he is actually voting for. Do not like. ##Vote: Shelvocke Since then, he's made a horribly reasoned vote on me. On April 08 2013 07:38 Shelvocke wrote: I like gonzaw's case. Artanis's stuff on geript does looks unnecessarily agressive and fake. I'm voting for him. ##Vote Artanis[Xp] Randomly goes back to the Geript stuff which happened ages ago yet he never cast suspicion on it back then. He never even mentioned it. On April 08 2013 16:05 Shelvocke wrote: Read my filter: + Show Spoiler + On April 07 2013 15:33 Shelvocke wrote: I don't really think rayn is mafia. His play does look different from those town quotes you had, but it doesn't look like that mafia game either. The only part of that game where he just suddenly jumps is the part where he votes for Krefla and even then he has a reason because Krefla just came in right before the deadline. The fact that he seems a lot more impulsive in this game than he has been before is something that points to him being town. I feel he would be a lot more careful and safe as mafia. The plan switch looks kind of strange, but his overall attitude makes him more likely town. On April 07 2013 15:52 Shelvocke wrote: I get what you're saying, but I've never seen a new mafia player be so crazy. I don't really understand the reasons for some of the stuff he does but it seems to me that he sees one post and then just makes up his mind based on that. Usually new mafia are much more safe and concerned about their appearance. It's possible he's some kind of mafia gosu but frankly that's not the impression I get from him. Something about this situation really strikes me the wrong way. There was still plenty of time left in the day and an Artanis lynch was nowhere certain. Like shooting gonzaw pretty much guarantees an Artanis lynch and I can't think of a good reason for mafia to do that if Artanis is mafia. I'm rereading the thread right now. Not entirely sure who to kill right now, but it's not Artanis. ##Unvote Randomly doesn't want to vote for me anymore because of WIFOM. What On April 08 2013 17:18 Shelvocke wrote: I think yamato shot gonzaw. I can't prove it, but it's the explanation that makes best sense to me right now going by people's reactions. I'm not entirely sure if he's the kind of person who would do that as town, but just skimming through the last normalish town game of his (Town Aint Big Mafia), I think it's entirely possible. Going to sleep on this, but that's where I'm at right now. The fuck? None of this makes any sense as town. Randomly unvoting me because of WIFOM, randomly accusing Yamato of shooting Gonzaw when Yamato has been agreeing with Gonzaw, it just doesn't make any sense from a town viewpoint. He's been afk for the rest, and all the times he was here he's played scummily. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On April 08 2013 22:18 Mocsta wrote: Artanis if you have the time for meta reads. Perhaps the best game to flick through is "The Game". Vivax was a blue vig; but in particular took on a completed revamped play style with more focus in general. Its also worth considering he is smurfing as "Ghor" in "Ego Mani or Noir, i cant remember. Obviously alignment is not known however. =============== Let me know when your ready to chat, and I will muster a couple questions for you. I really don't, I've been at work for the past 6 hours and I haven't done a single productive thing here yet lol. Fire the questions whenever ready and I'll answer them shortly. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On April 08 2013 22:49 Mocsta wrote: Artanis[Xp] Lets put the past behind us, and have a fresh start. The questions I wanted to ask prior, for whatever, I dont want to ask anymore. So hopefully these ones are still of value. (1) RO was the person who introduced the concept of VT claiming. In more detail: it was claim what role you tried for, if you became a VT. - the idea was to determine scum power roles. With hindsight (i.e. assassin in the mix): Does this alter your perception of RO? It's a meritious point. Finding out which roles are in the game will help scum figure out the game more easily and use the assassin role properly. An additional point supporting this hypothesis is that DI has claimed that scum would probably get a rolecop with the role, whereas I see many options available for them not to pick a rolecop with this setup. It would only really aid their assassin and it's likely that roles will get outed at some point. His conclusion is premature and potentially damning considering this and the fact that he was so willing to sheep people to avoid responsibility. (1 Corollary) I supported RO idea of forced VTs(At the time) Does this affect your opinion of me? I would consider your support to be potentially scum motivated, but on its own it doesn't say much as it helps both town and scum to figure out the game. There have been other posts by you that I have found questionable, but your overall game has been town oriented to me. You seem to be willing to figure the game out and you could've easily wagoned on me and no one would've found it suspicious. (2) You posted prior that you like a Sinani lynch. Is this a lurker "stab in the dark" lynch; or do you think there is enough content in the filter to warrant a justified scum lynch? I've thought about it and I don't like a Sinani lynch at this moment. I'd prefer a vig shot rather than wasting time discussing him since he seems to not be willing to provide any information that would help to find out his alignment. (3) Is your Vivax town read founded purely on that you expect him to be disruptive; but he isnt? Hence, are you applying Vivax specific heuristics - is this the case? Are you familiar enough with Vivax to even consider having specific heuristics? Yes. I've played with Vivax in British Empire Mini Mafia II in which he was abrasive and in your face all the time. I've played with him in Fruity as well in which he was the same way. This is something I'm sure he's done in scum games as well, and the fact that he's refraining from it leads me to believe he's town. I don't think he would change his gameplay in this way if he weren't.His meta has changed in a way that feels more townie than scummy to me. (4) Blanket question. 5 scum. At least one typically will have an active-ish presence. With the current game situation: Where do you prefer to look for first scum lynch. The 3-4 typical lurkers/blenders? Or the 1-2 actives trying to get influence? I'm looking to kill the person whom I'm most certain of is scum, which is Shevlocke. Whoever is my strongest scumread is the person I'm looking to lynch. A scumteam is made up of the people that happen to be in it. Some teams don't have leaders. If it's RNGed (I don't know if Bloody RNGs his setups or not) then it could be anything from 5 lurkers to 5 town leaders. I'd rather not think about this setup wise, but look at who's acting the scummiest. That's Shevlocke for reasons I've mentioned before. (5) Can you please reconfirm who your #1 scumspect is. You have identified several as scummy; but it isnt clear, who you would bank on. Shevlocke is the person I want lynched this day. I believe I've made that clear. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On April 08 2013 23:13 Caller wrote: oh artanis is here. very well claim in the next 30 minutes. or else. Threats aren't going to make me do something I consider anti town, even if it makes other people do something anti town. That's just retarded. I've already said why not. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On April 08 2013 23:16 Caller wrote: artanis how is it "anti-town" you're going to die right now. and i'm not even voting for you. you might as well claim. we'll find your role on role-reveal anyways. I already told you how it's anti town and I don't think I'm going to get lynched today because there are still townies that are willing to read my posts and actually consider that I might be, you know, town. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
Also if Caller goes wild wild west on me please lynch him after I flip. | ||
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