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On April 05 2013 02:33 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 02:20 Vivax wrote:
1st of all: Sharrant requested roles like america to not be picked by town. No, scum can use it before getting lynched, so it doesn't matter if it outs them. Town needs the best of the best of the best, sir.
My idea: We get to an agreement about a few of the towniest mofos based on activity, interest and good ideas, and accept that they will roll the highest possible numbers and nobody who is town must roll the same.
That will leave a mixed pool of null/scum. Scum's main target will be to stop these elected townies from having these roles, so they will try to use the same draft, maybe while another teammate sends in other numbers to try and snatch the role.
That's where the null townies come into play. They will never use the same numbers as the elected townie mofos, forcing scum to waste their picks on taking away good roles from good townies by using the same numbers, leaving a limited amount of scum who will indeed try to roll good shit, and who has to affront a horde of townies who are less likely to take good roles away from each other.
Bad side: People might not give a fuck about the plan, and people might disagree on someone most believe to be town. What do you suggest those "few of the towniest mofos" pick then? Just finished skimming the already gigantic thread (bleh). So I will try to focus on that on the next go. Didn't really pay too much attention to that yet. For now, I'll try to simulate the plan cause I just spat that out spontaneously without playing it through yet. Three most townish mofos get elected, let's say it's VE, Palmar and Caller. Purely hypothetical obviously. Town agrees on this: Palmar 11 Caller 21 VE 31 What can scum do now? They can do 1 2 to reset Palmar back. 2 2 to reset Caller back etc., or try to roll their own shit and just deal with the fact that these people will get these roles. That will leave two mafia who will fight rest of town in the 4 - 24 range to get good roles. And if the elected people don't manage to be first in draft, we will also have confirmation that mafia doesn't want them to have good roles. It's almost like a mayoral election.
nonono..
The most towniest guys obviously pick 1,2,3, etc..
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EBWOP: Sorry i misread. You were obviously saying the same thing i was rofl :D
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Combine Vivax' + Geript's ideas and let these guys pick [1][1], [2][1], [3][1], [4][1], [5][1] (everyone else picks [6->] [X]):
raynpelikoneet
Geript
yamato
Mocsta
Sharrant
Argee or not? If not, why?
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On April 05 2013 02:41 Caller wrote:
disagree cuz ive already sent in [1][1]
You can't change it?
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On April 05 2013 02:43 Vivax wrote:
It's ok caller, just means you will be the last one along with the designated elected townie mofo you'll contest. Hurt yourself bro.
I'll take a look at your options there. Seems like you like to pick the most active ones, but need to check if they're actually proposing malicious ideas. Disagreed on some stuff with sharrant, for example. It's like he wanted to leave "dangerous" roles open for scum.
It doesn't matter if they proposed good or bad ideas. Mafia is probably not going to push any ideas at all (because they all have a backdoor - because there are so many roles). Everyone pushing ideas regardless if they are good/bad are probably town at this point, especially the guys who are pushing ultimately bad ideas. :D
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On April 05 2013 02:47 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 02:43 Vivax wrote:
It's ok caller, just means you will be the last one along with the designated elected townie mofo you'll contest. Hurt yourself bro.
I'll take a look at your options there. Seems like you like to pick the most active ones, but need to check if they're actually proposing malicious ideas. Disagreed on some stuff with sharrant, for example. It's like he wanted to leave "dangerous" roles open for scum. It doesn't matter if they proposed good or bad ideas. Mafia is probably not going to push any ideas at all (because they all have a backdoor - because there are so many roles). Everyone pushing ideas regardless if they are good/bad are probably town at this point, especially the guys who are pushing ultimately bad ideas. :D au contraire mafia will push any ideas even if they are "good" because their picking strategy never reflects what town is thinking and if they have a "good plan" they become more "townlike." or they participate. either way it looks good on them.
As i said the guys top in drafting order are gonna fall fast, thay have the "best" roles after all (or at least likely). If you were mafia why would you push an idea that's good for town? Doesn't it hurt your team? If you were mafia why would you push an idea that's bad for town? Doesn't it draw suspicion to you?
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Is it really so that if you already picked your numbers you can't change them? Whaere does this "i picked already so fu" does come from? Just repick ffs...
Oats please read the thread.. :E
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On April 05 2013 02:54 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 02:47 Caller wrote:On April 05 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 02:43 Vivax wrote:
It's ok caller, just means you will be the last one along with the designated elected townie mofo you'll contest. Hurt yourself bro.
I'll take a look at your options there. Seems like you like to pick the most active ones, but need to check if they're actually proposing malicious ideas. Disagreed on some stuff with sharrant, for example. It's like he wanted to leave "dangerous" roles open for scum. It doesn't matter if they proposed good or bad ideas. Mafia is probably not going to push any ideas at all (because they all have a backdoor - because there are so many roles). Everyone pushing ideas regardless if they are good/bad are probably town at this point, especially the guys who are pushing ultimately bad ideas. :D au contraire mafia will push any ideas even if they are "good" because their picking strategy never reflects what town is thinking and if they have a "good plan" they become more "townlike." or they participate. either way it looks good on them. As i said the guys top in drafting order are gonna fall fast, thay have the "best" roles after all (or at least likely). If you were mafia why would you push an idea that's good for town? Doesn't it hurt your team? If you were mafia why would you push an idea that's bad for town? Doesn't it draw suspicion to you? You cant push a bad strategy in PYP, you just cant. It gets shut down immediately. Its better for them to let town do what they do and maybe slightly alter the 'plan' to benefit scum more. So therefore your town 'criteria' is absolute bullshit
Do you think bad plans are coming from town or from mafia? Why?
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EBWOP: Because there are many bad plans already 
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On April 05 2013 02:53 Caller wrote:
wait how does vivax know there are five mafia
Elaborate plz?
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On April 05 2013 02:57 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:53 Caller wrote:
wait how does vivax know there are five mafia It says it right under the player list.
rofl. :D
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On April 05 2013 03:02 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:58 Vivax wrote:
@ Caller
Reading OP helped a little with that.
The idea is good, there's not really much incentive for mafia to make plans or post at all at this stage. They have an excuse for not being active cause they might say they regard draft discussion as unimportant, so rayn's candidates are good choices. They spontaneously try to get the best out of the game, and if they push bad ideas they might look scummy, as rayn said.
Still have to read them in detail, but this argument holds anyway, given that activity and intention to influence thread are there, argument quality aside. Fuck that. Its the easiest way to look like town to contribute in a 'plan'. Its really easy cause you can do it as both alignments cause you dont have to offer any opinions. In chrono trigger. Some of the scum werent all quiet and shit, they contributed and yes there was a bad plan proposed by scum, but I dont see that here.
So what exactly are you saying? Is there scum in the list i proposed?
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On April 05 2013 03:04 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:59 geript wrote:
@All Would everyone be okay if I came up with a set of 5 pods of rolls and the pods to be selected from in specific picks? I'd expect some feedback and editing on them. I'll be completely honest and say I hate plans like this. The game is called Pick YOUR Power. Not Let Everyone Else Pick Your Power For You. For one, I just don't see everyone agreeing, and to me it just ruins the fun of the game type.
Nobody is saying what you should pick. I am suggesting that 5 players get to pick first. Is that a good plan or not and are the players town/mafia in your opinion?
There are like 100 - or something - roles. If you don't get your favourite pick i'm sure you can find something else that suits you.
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On April 05 2013 03:08 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 03:04 Keirathi wrote:On April 05 2013 02:59 geript wrote:
@All Would everyone be okay if I came up with a set of 5 pods of rolls and the pods to be selected from in specific picks? I'd expect some feedback and editing on them. I'll be completely honest and say I hate plans like this. The game is called Pick YOUR Power. Not Let Everyone Else Pick Your Power For You. For one, I just don't see everyone agreeing, and to me it just ruins the fun of the game type. Nobody is saying what you should pick. I am suggesting that 5 players get to pick first. Is that a good plan or not and are the players town/mafia in your opinion? There are like 100 - or something - roles. If you don't get your favourite pick i'm sure you can find something else that suits you. There are less than 30. This is funny though. You want the 5 players to claim which roles they pick? Then you dont want people to deny. WHY?
Where am i saying i want them to claim what they picked? I am saying i know i am town and the other four are in my opinion most likely to be town. That's why i want them to pick first.
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On April 05 2013 03:10 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 03:04 Keirathi wrote:On April 05 2013 02:59 geript wrote:
@All Would everyone be okay if I came up with a set of 5 pods of rolls and the pods to be selected from in specific picks? I'd expect some feedback and editing on them. I'll be completely honest and say I hate plans like this. The game is called Pick YOUR Power. Not Let Everyone Else Pick Your Power For You. For one, I just don't see everyone agreeing, and to me it just ruins the fun of the game type. Nobody is saying what you should pick. I am suggesting that 5 players get to pick first. Is that a good plan or not and are the players town/mafia in your opinion? There are like 100 - or something - roles. If you don't get your favourite pick i'm sure you can find something else that suits you. I was responding to geripts plan to full pod out the game. IE: people in slots 1-4 only pick roles A, B, C, or D. Players in slots 5-6 only pick roles from E, F, G, or H. That's boring to me. I'm fine with players being given first picks (in theory) if they are going to use them to deny scum roles. If they're just going to pick whatever they feel like, then I disagree.
I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. They should pick whatever they feel is best for the town. It's beneficial to town to have as many upper slots as possible.
In one PYP i remember mafia!Chezinu picking CPRdoctor as ~#22. FUCKING CPRdoctor @ #22!!! There needs to be some cooperation in the picks, but it can't be too obvious or it's advantageous to mafia.
If someone of us is mafia it doesn't matter, we need to be responsible for our actions regarding our role anyways.
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And i still don't see why people in top spots must ABSOPLUTELY deny strong mafia roles that do not benefit town? If we follow Vivax plan mafia in top 5 will get outed at some point or they are town and 6-> can deny the roles if they feel like it.
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On April 05 2013 03:18 Oatsmaster wrote:
Rayn
Simple question.
Do you think that its more important for town to get good power roles, or for town to stop scum from getting good power roles?
I think it's more important to get good power roles in top picks, and the top picks need to be town if we are going to let some people pick above others. I also think it's beneficial to town to agree on some town reads and let them pick first. 6+ pickers can deny the roles good for mafia, or 1-5 if they feel like it.
A question to you: Do you think there are mafia in this list and if yes, why:
raynpelikoneet
geript
yamato
mocsta
sharrant
?
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On April 05 2013 03:20 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
And i still don't see why people in top spots must ABSOPLUTELY deny strong mafia roles that do not benefit town? If we follow Vivax plan mafia in top 5 will get outed at some point or they are town and 6-> can deny the roles if they feel like it. So lets say we follow your plan, and give the top 5 picks to the guys that you said. And lets say t hat one of them is scum, and picks Janitor or CPR Doc. How exactly do they get outed by getting to pick those roles for free with no contest?
The fact that they do not die in the first couple of cycles and there is going to be cops and stuff anyways.
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On April 05 2013 03:28 Restraining Order wrote:
Ok, you can keep townhunting them townreads if you want, I sent in my numbers already. They shouldn't be too obtrusive to whatever nonsense you'll come up with, so it's okay.
This is like a scumclaim.
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On April 05 2013 03:30 Oatsmaster wrote:Read this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=335236¤tpage=19why do you disagree with them? Rayn im null on everyone on your list. Thats not the point. The bad part about this plan 1. Top 5 townies choose whatever they want 2. Scum can feel free to pick CPR doc/janitor/voterigger/other scum favored but useless to town roles. So basically no accountability and this doesnt really help town. How does this help town? What if the top 5 choose the same thing? then one is a VT. Which basically made this top 5 thing useless.
Why the fuck would top 5 choose the same thing?
How is CPRdoc bad for town?
What do you exactly want? Everyone to claim what they pick? If not, how are you doing anything different than what i proposed? Except that in my proposition the top 5 picks are most likely town.
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EPT
