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Hi guys.
2 important things:
- Yeah don't do that thing I said in pre-game unless Palmar or something bullies all of you into doing it at once (it's obviously not going to work).
Just pre-game lighthearted fun.
I still want the #1 spot so nobody spoils my fun as inventor  .
If I get 2nd-3rd or something I'd most likely pick something else (since the guy above me would obviously pick inventor), unless I think he's scum (and won't pick it) or something like that
Wait....didn't I say I was excited about this stuff in pre-game, and explicitly said I wouldn't talk about this in case I was scum?
Yes, yes I did.
But think of it this way: If I say "I am so excited to do X! But I won't talk about X in case I'm scum!", then I start talking about X. That means I'm like confirmed town or something, since if I was scum I could just not talk about it and be justified (you know I'm super lazy as scum so that's what I would do).
Therefore, me not doing that would mean I'd be scum, since if I was town I'd want to instantly confirm myself like that right?
WRONG. If not it'll be too easy for you guys and be kind of "cheating", I want to give my pre-game persona some credit and follow through his promises 
- This game I'll be the wise guy. You know, like the Incognito....but in training.
I'll post minimally, but will give advice for mafia life when I do, and instantly catch all scum (unless I just have no time to read the thread or something)
P.S: If I get bored and have free time I may just spam a little bit or something
Okay, that's taken care of then
See ya people
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I don't understand what you are saying
...but oh well doesn't matter.
Please don't spam 30 pages while I'm away
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Wisdom: When I reach my 3k post milestone, I'll make a huge case against all scum in the game (and be right obviously), exactly on my 3K post!
(hopefully I remember it and don't forget about the milestone like the 2 previous times lol)
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On April 04 2013 23:34 Sharrant wrote:
If town gets inventor: Be as pro town as you possibly can be, this is a great role for town to have. We should see lots of bullet proof vests, and similar defensive or investigative items coming out from you.
That's not what you guys will get from me if I get inventor....
As for plans, just suit yourselves.
+ Show Spoiler [Setup stuff] +
Wisdom: If your plan FORCES specific players to do an action they may not want individually, then you NEED to either have almost unanimous support, or a way to enforce that authoritarian method.
Forcing VTs to claim their roles (when maybe they don't want to, depending what role they chose, what draft position they have, and what they think of the game) would not work that well for instance.
Same with other stuff.
There are "obvious" things that town has to do of course. Mainly "get good roles" and "deny mafia good roles".
Just pick your roles with this in consideration, but not only that, think about what other people may get as well
If you are selfless and think other's are egoistic, pick a Medic or sorts role (since in your mind nobody else would pick so)
If you are selfish but think you can use your role in a good manner, pick some good KP role or something
However, I won't mind people trying to play "individually" and get a cool role they want or something. That's what PYP is there for. The important thing is that either those people synergize their picks and skills pretty well, or they don't outnumber the players picking roles to "help town" (for instance those trying to deny scum of Janitor, etc)
Other "obvious" stuff is to basically deny mafia the CPR Doctor. They'll try to get that 100%.
Not so much Janitor. It is more an ability that fucks town more than it helps scum, thus in their mind scum may not try to get it that much (it doesn't further their agenda directly for instance, and they have little control on what it can do).
If you are townie on the 1-3 position, coordinate who gets CPR Doctor somehow, or just take it yourself. That's the only "important" thing we should take care of in my mind.
I know if I try to think about the setup I'll waste most of my time (time I don't have) and won't do shit, so I'll just focus on scumhunting.
Other people with more time (yamato and CO) figure out all those plans and discuss them if you want. I doubt there is anything game-changing that won't be resolved with ol' good accurate scumhunting.
You guys keep doing your think though. Hopefully the thread doesn't move so fast about "pointless" discussion after the picking phase though
I'll officially call VE out for making a halfassed post about agreeing with yamato's plan.
Also, I'm getting a slight idea someone else is scum....mwahahaha. Who? Oh, you don't want me to ruin the fun right now don't you?
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On April 05 2013 02:43 Vivax wrote:
It's ok caller, just means you will be the last one along with the designated elected townie mofo you'll contest. Hurt yourself bro.
I'll take a look at your options there. Seems like you like to pick the most active ones, but need to check if they're actually proposing malicious ideas. Disagreed on some stuff with sharrant, for example. It's like he wanted to leave "dangerous" roles open for scum.
Wisdom: Unless you are a Palmar, or an Ace, or a Wbg, or that type of scum, it's more likely that if you are scum you'll post ideas that you would post as town as well, meaning ideas that benefit town more than scum, but you know won't be likely to get implemented and thus gives you town cred.
Therefore, people doing the opposite may give them a slightly higher chance of being town (if not pretty higher), if their thought process seems legit.
Pre-Edit: Oh look, "troll Caller" ninja'ing me with my wisdom bits.
On April 05 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Combine Vivax' + Geript's ideas and let these guys pick [1][1], [2][1], [3][1], [4][1], [5][1] (everyone else picks [6->] [X]):
raynpelikoneet
Geript
yamato
Mocsta
Sharrant
Argee or not? If not, why?
Hmm...I agree with this list to be honest.
Doesn't require super massive coordination to do X, but rather lesser coordination not to do Y, which, if those people claim in-thread they'll get those numbers, would obviously work because "selfish" townies and scum will pick different numbers to not clash.
As long as none of them pick inventor of course! (I'm being serious here though)
I did pick a number between 1-6 though, so if this plan becomes a consensus, or rather those 5 guys claim they send those numbers I'll change my pick to 7>
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On April 05 2013 02:54 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 02:47 Caller wrote:On April 05 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 02:43 Vivax wrote:
It's ok caller, just means you will be the last one along with the designated elected townie mofo you'll contest. Hurt yourself bro.
I'll take a look at your options there. Seems like you like to pick the most active ones, but need to check if they're actually proposing malicious ideas. Disagreed on some stuff with sharrant, for example. It's like he wanted to leave "dangerous" roles open for scum. It doesn't matter if they proposed good or bad ideas. Mafia is probably not going to push any ideas at all (because they all have a backdoor - because there are so many roles). Everyone pushing ideas regardless if they are good/bad are probably town at this point, especially the guys who are pushing ultimately bad ideas. :D au contraire mafia will push any ideas even if they are "good" because their picking strategy never reflects what town is thinking and if they have a "good plan" they become more "townlike." or they participate. either way it looks good on them. As i said the guys top in drafting order are gonna fall fast, thay have the "best" roles after all (or at least likely). If you were mafia why would you push an idea that's good for town? Doesn't it hurt your team? If you were mafia why would you push an idea that's bad for town? Doesn't it draw suspicion to you? You cant push a bad strategy in PYP, you just cant. It gets shut down immediately. Its better for them to let town do what they do and maybe slightly alter the 'plan' to benefit scum more. So therefore your town 'criteria' is absolute bullshit
The criteria may be "bullshit"....to an extent.
It's "obvious" that in many games the people being the most active are more likely to be town.
In this game, yamato, rayn, Sharrant, and to an extent Moctsa/geript have been the most active in going with discussion.
Yes, it's possible one (or more) of them are scum, just have some big balls and decided to start the game guns-blazing going for town cred and trying to be an influence.
The thing is that other than maybe yamato/Mocsta I don't see them doing that as scum (as opposed if they were wbg or something like that), plus their interactions with them seem legit in the sense that they are genuinely discussing stuff to be productive (which is likelier to come from townies than scum).
For instance, take a look at all others that "chimed in" with "pro-town plans" and stuff.....yet made absolutely no impact at all in the game
It's possible you'll find your first scums in there (if not on the inactive/"bored" players as well).
I have little against this plan to be honest.
Even if one of them is scum, they are somehow more restricted by what they pick. If those 5 get the first 5 positions, we KNOW they will pick strong town roles.
If we see a strong role being used in an anti-town way, when those guys were supposed to get said role, then alarms are raised, and pressure is put on those people, specially the scum that took that strong role.
Like I stated, the only cooperation town has to make is NOT do something, which is many many times easier than forcing them to do something.
In fact, think about it this way:
You are a townie, and you don't think any of those 5 people are scum. You can pick either 1-6, or >7. If you pick 1-6, you basically go to the bottom of the draft for sure, thus not being able to pick good roles. You also drag someone down with you 100%, someone you are not sure is scum and may even think is town
Would you pick 1-6, after those people already claimed their picks? Most likely not, specially not if you don't do it publicly
This plan is good in the sense that it "forces" players to do (or not do) something, but in a way it's actually supposed to work because it caters to those players' mentality and what their natural reaction would be..
The only thing that remains is scum clashing with those 5 people, which can out them if we compare draft numbers and positions.
/wisdom
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On April 05 2013 03:07 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +For instance, take a look at all others that "chimed in" with "pro-town plans" and stuff.....yet made absolutely no impact at all in the game
It's possible you'll find your first scums in there (if not on the inactive/"bored" players as well). Prove it. Also isnt the point of having 5 'confirmed' townies in order to choose the roles to deny from mafia for them?
Prove what? Who is scum out of those "non-productive plan-sayers"?
That will have to wait my young student. Patience is a virtue...
...it shouldn't be hard to realize though, almost everybody chimed in with some "plan" or another, yet I (and I think most of you) can't even remember who those were or what they proposed or what they did to push it or push discussion forward.
Anyways see ya in 7-8 hours
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On April 05 2013 03:19 Vivax wrote:
Supporting gonzaw and rayn for high picks so far. Objections?
I suggest everyone makes a list of his top 5 townreads to send in highest numbers, and we find the ones most agree on.
If there's someone mostly suggesting scum in his list, we will find out later.
That's why scum will try to stop this plan.
1. Rayn
2. Gonzaw
3. Vivax (duh)
4.-5. : To find out.
No don't put me on top (or rather, don't change plans just to put me on top)
It's easy: I'll pick Inventor.
If nobody picks inventor and I get #23 I'll get inventor anyways.
If everybody says they won't get inventor, I can get position 5-8 and get inventor anyways (as long as I'm above S&B I assume).
If I don't get inventor, then scum got it and we can figure out who he is eventually (as long as I don't go too low on the list).
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On April 05 2013 03:22 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:19 gonzaw wrote:On April 05 2013 03:07 Oatsmaster wrote:For instance, take a look at all others that "chimed in" with "pro-town plans" and stuff.....yet made absolutely no impact at all in the game
It's possible you'll find your first scums in there (if not on the inactive/"bored" players as well). Prove it. Also isnt the point of having 5 'confirmed' townies in order to choose the roles to deny from mafia for them? Prove what? Who is scum out of those "non-productive plan-sayers"? That will have to wait my young student. Patience is a virtue... ...it shouldn't be hard to realize though, almost everybody chimed in with some "plan" or another, yet I (and I think most of you) can't even remember who those were or what they proposed or what they did to push it or push discussion forward. Anyways see ya in 7-8 hours Um yeah you said its possible, so I want to see you do it. Lol.
I already called one of them out (VE). Another one is my "hidden gut scumread", I won't reveal because it'd be kind of pointless right now with the lack of content and stuff.
Others are random dudes that are null but can indeed be mafia, at least have much higher chance of being so than those 4-5 on rayn's list.
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On April 05 2013 06:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Why Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 05:46 strongandbig wrote:
this whole discussion is stupid until we get the drafting list btw yes Gonzaw would you mind telling me what you think of oats, artanis, sharrant, and decondou? Would like to hear someone else's thoughts.
Yo how about YOU tell me what you think of them?
You can't force the wise man to do your bidding, he forces you to do his, and then enlightens you or punishes you accordingly 
I have to agree with yamato on Oats.
Makes little sense for scum Oats to "intentionally disrupt" town like this in the drafting phase for no reason (if he's scum), rather than doing so when it matters to them: The Day phase.
No reason to call him scum right now, wait until the game actually "matters" to state so.
So you 5 guys are you sending the 1-5 draft choices? If so it may be better to claim so you don't clash between each other, and so you can convince other people not to take those as well (I already changed my number).
I guess it's too late though, meh.
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Wisdom: Don't set your "scumteam" stances on stone so early in the game with little foundation behind them rayn, or you may be punished for it when the dusk comes
I'll have to say I don't really agree with Oats and RO (RO not that much though), while MZ and Caller are null enough to not be called as a scumteam yet.
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Fuck, goodbye dream. Inventor, you were a nice friend, I'll never forget ya.
So, SnoMan scum for picking [1,1] but no scum clashing with him?
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On April 05 2013 11:32 Shelvocke wrote:
Gonzaw, are you still here? I want to speak with you.
Depends
I have some other shit to do now, on top of figuring out what other role to get that's not boring as fuck or turns me into VT
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Patience my little birds, patience.
There was little content this drafting phase, I have to wait a little bit to see how this person picks his game up when it starts to matter and how he does it.
It's also a gut feeling in some way, so I have to develop it a little bit better.
Also, chose my role
S&B you can get the inventor I guess goddamit > : (
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On April 05 2013 11:51 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Also for the record, I'm not trying to force a wise man to do my bidding, just wanna check in with someone who completely played me before :D
Oh, stop it you! :3
I just don't want to start babbling like I do normally (i.e post thoughts about everybody at once, every time).
Anyways, I can't see that much against the "guy who picks [1,1] and scum don't clash with him is scum" heuristic, specially considering Sno didn't post at all on the 24 hours this drafting phase (other than his "thread is so big!" comment).
It's not entirely foolproof....but it does make you think.
This drafting phase was nice to get some town reads going on, not so much scum reads (although I have my suspicions).
As most of the time, content from certain individuals would be welcomed (VE, Palmar, Obvious, sinani, etc etc) to get something going (as long as I don't have to spam thoughts and thoughts to make it so).
rayn, I don't understand you tunneling RO right now.
Heed my previous wise advice and take a step back before you tunnel someone which could easily be town at this moment in time.
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Rayn, even if RO is scum, you'd be making it easier for him to "hide" by....doing whatever the hell you are doing.
Fact: You have 5% justified reasons for thinking RO is scum. Nobody agrees with you
Fact: The more you tunnel him, the more you antagonize others, and the more everybody will start defending RO to react against you. Therefore if RO is scum, the more you do whatever you do, the more people will keep ignoring his scummyness and focus on defending him to counter your unjustified tunnel
So yes, hear my advice (just filter me if it's too much work to search it), and take a step back, you are not doing anybody any favours. Hell, even if you are scum you are not doing your scumteam any favours by being so "obvious".
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Well Mocsta, I don't follow your eagerness to hunt down our little friend here. His behaviour in the drafting phase seems too "fucking great scum play" if he was scum compared to this "fucking bad scum play" you mention him doing. It'd be so "fucking great scum play" that it almost convinced me he was town back then (and that thought still lingers)
His RO tunnel is weird though, so I'll let this play its course. Just don't shit things up (both of you) it's the only thing I ask of you
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On April 05 2013 12:40 yamato77 wrote:
Gonzaw, what do you make of MZ basically trolling the thread and saying very little about anything?
I wouldn't call what he did trolling.
I agree with some stuff he's saying, for instance Artanis does seem to be flying under the radar.
Either he's making sense as town and being playful in his own way....or I'll need more time to figure him out as scum.
Both of those make me give little attention to him, in the mafia-seeking ways
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On April 05 2013 12:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Should we have our roles by now?
You'll have to wait 20 more hours for that sugarpuff
BC wouldn't be that cruel to give people just 2-3 hours to pick a role
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EPT
