|
On April 09 2013 10:11 Palmar wrote:
it was so simple. I proved nra and assman were both scum. so we kill nra and assman, and whaddayaknow? I was correct.
man I should get a medal for this game. mvp.
It was already proven.
assman i dunno
but
assassin was proven scum.
and we logically deduced NRA would be scum.
Assman / Palmar,
you said early game you thougth BM was scum.
Updated thoughts. GOGOGOGO.
|
Guys this exchange between Art/Myself is pretty important. I think some confirmed townies come out of it.
When reading the below: note, that this occurs before Caller threatens Artanis; hence, all the interactions are scum trying to prove innocence.
(1)
Mocsta RO was the person who introduced the concept of VT claiming.
In more detail: it was claim what role you tried for, if you became a VT. - the idea was to determine scum power roles.
With hindsight (i.e. assassin in the mix): Does this alter your perception of RO? Artanis[Xp] It's a meritious point. Finding out which roles are in the game will help scum figure out the game more easily and use the assassin role properly. An additional point supporting this hypothesis is that DI has claimed that scum would probably get a rolecop with the role, whereas I see many options available for them not to pick a rolecop with this setup. It would only really aid their assassin and it's likely that roles will get outed at some point. His conclusion is premature and potentially damning considering this and the fact that he was so willing to sheep people to avoid responsibility.
Hes calling RO scum softly; but also talks about RO as if he is a 3rd person and not the center of the discussion. If anything the discourse is more focused on role speculation. Concludes with another weak sentmiment of "potentially damning"
This is interesting because, he put VE as a weak scum read too.
I think we have here a proper scum association slip. I am keen to hear others thoughts
Context: Artanis knew he had to get on my good side. He also knew he wanted to escape lynch.
It was pretty clear I was implicating RO as scum for the above; so he has tried to answer the question and make me fill in the gaps; whilst not actually explicitly making a stance on RO. Its pretty wishy-washy and can be backpedaled at any time.
Contrast with below.
MocstaI supported RO idea of forced VTs(At the time)
Does this affect your opinion of me? Artanis[Xp]I would consider your support to be potentially scum motivated, but on its own it doesn't say much as it helps both town and scum to figure out the game. There have been other posts by you that I have found questionable, but your overall game has been town oriented to me. You seem to be willing to figure the game out and you could've easily wagoned on me and no one would've found it suspicious.
Classic scum. He knows I have been pushing for his lynch, and was willing to cut him some slack.
To be consistent with the RO tell above; he says its scummy - directly (unlike RO). And then proceeds to backpedal quickly and throw in a couple generic statements to justify the motive.
Its interesting how different his approach is to discussing RO vs Myself. Its pretty hard to backpedal from what he said about me; but with RO he has left lots of options.
(2)
Mocsta You posted prior that you like a Sinani lynch.
Is this a lurker "stab in the dark" lynch; or do you think there is enough content in the filter to warrant a justified scum lynch? Artanis[Xp] I've thought about it and I don't like a Sinani lynch at this moment. I'd prefer a vig shot rather than wasting time discussing him since he seems to not be willing to provide any information that would help to find out his alignment.
When Yam asked him about Sinani, he repeated someone elses case.
Now when I call it a lurker lynch; he says he prefers a vig shot.
Regardless, he had no issue with Sinani being killed off - which makes Sinani confirmed town (unfortunately - cos the guy is useless)
I am choosing not to believe that Artanis bussed Sinani to get Yam off his back.
Further, town wasting KP on town, is a great way to extend mafia chances of winning; as we can only lynch one scum a day cycle.
(3)
Mocsta Is your Vivax town read founded purely on that you expect him to be disruptive; but he isnt?
Hence, are you applying Vivax specific heuristics - is this the case?
Are you familiar enough with Vivax to even consider having specific heuristics? Artanis[Xp] Yes. I've played with Vivax in British Empire Mini Mafia II in which he was abrasive and in your face all the time. I've played with him in Fruity as well in which he was the same way. This is something I'm sure he's done in scum games as well, and the fact that he's refraining from it leads me to believe he's town. I don't think he would change his gameplay in this way if he weren't.His meta has changed in a way that feels more townie than scummy to me.
I feel like this explanation is in the same confident tone as scum BH expressing town GoodKarma innocence in "The Game". Ironically, no one believed BH.
This is personal, but I am treating Vivax as town based on the above.
Which also means I need to re-read RO association case on Vivax.
(4)
Mocsta Can you please reconfirm who your #1 scumspect is.
You have identified several as scummy; but it isnt clear, who you would bank on. Artanis[Xp] Shevlocke is the person I want lynched this day. I believe I've made that clear. Like Sinani, Shevlocke becomes confirmed town.
====================================
|
On April 09 2013 10:55 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Let me illustrate something for you mocsta: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1Yi2Bp0.gif) You're the one holding paper sounding like an idiot. The rest of the thread is the guy sitting in back who actually can't believe that something that stupid was said. I'll be back tomorrow.
My target is Restraining Order.
Regardless of you being town or scum; you are a blender.
Nothing stupid about that.
Even your power in Personality2, had the potential to blend in and receive mafia checks.
So go crawl back in ya hole; & see u tomorrow.
|
On April 09 2013 11:16 yamato77 wrote:
Sinani is not confirmed town
that analysis is terrible.
Im not listening to you.
You were the one so tunneled, you instantly jumped off Artanis when he agreed with you.
And then had the tenacity to call me scum for questioning your motives.
Your terrible at this game Yamato, and the quicker you admit it, the quicker you can improve.
Artanis tried to get Sinani lynched or vig shot to save himself. Scum dont bus scum to save themselves
Let me guess
Your going to throw out that assassin is such a good role; scum were willing to sac scum to save the assassin?
pfft.
And even if i indulged you and said ok, sinani is not confirmed; there is no different with shevlocke; yet there you keep your mouth shut.
Stop being tunneled yam. You're apparently better than this.
|
Thnx for the comment on Restraining Order too yam.
/sarcasm
Well done.
|
On April 09 2013 11:42 yamato77 wrote:
I guarantee scum bussed Artanis.
Why is it so hard to believe he bussed as well?
I dont rule it out.
I just find the probability unlikely.
Since JayBrundage bussed in?Desert? ppl talk about bussing as if its the go-to tactic. But it puts scum in a bad situation almost every time, and isnt worth the gain. Especially if not done convincingly.
When im scum; i have no issue calling team mates scummy when im not under the pump.
just like Artanis called VE scum early on. There is no follow through so its meaningless.
If Sinani is scum then indeed, the pressure Artanis put on him was very high and meets the actual definition of a bus. I.e. sacrifice a teammate to live.
Lets think about this though:
Artanis was most very likely going to walk away from the lynch. I believe he had more votes than VE at end of cycle (or there was only 1-2 votes separation); and quite a few were really starting to consider him townie - publicly.
However, when Artanis was throwing out names (e.g. Sinani) he still had almost every vote on him, and was trying to wriggle out of the noose.
He threw a couple names down (Sinani/Shevlocke) but note, he never tried to follow through with his "weak scum read' VE. -- which with flip knowledge we know is directly avoiding a bus situation already.
====================
Consider: Artanis was well aware of thread sentiment. To save himself he figured he had a good chance of throwing the lynch to either: VE // Sinani // Shevlock.
If he willing to bus Sinani.. why not bus VE too? He could have had votes split more evenly between the 4 (if you include artanis) candidates; in the hopes that a townie would swing the hammer to Shevlocke without bait.
This didnt happen.
Sinani was also higher in the draft order; and equally could have chosen NRA or as good a role for scum.
So in short: Artanis didnt want to bus VE. He wanted the lynch on Sinani and then Shevlocke (where more votes were).
Using that logic, i find it hard to believe he made an exception for VE; and then decided to bus Sinani.
Sinani and Shevlocke are confirmed town.
======================
I think StrongandBig is pretty much confirmed for the way he wanted VE gone.
Im not so certain with Geript anymore; hes still town to me, but perhaps im just too paranoid..
his taking down of VE just was so god damn fucking smooth. It crescendo'd just too easily. Its not often all the pieces fall together like that.
If someone is DT, I would consider burning a check on him. Their call though.
|
On April 09 2013 11:50 yamato77 wrote:
Moc, if you're town, I'm disappointed in you.
That analysis is really bad.
Your'e calling sinani "confirmed town" because you don't think a scum would call another scum mafia and then NOT agree to lynch him?
Come on, dude.
Read the post below.
I think it expresses the correct context and sentiment at the time pretty well.
I am open to all sorts of scum play (look at what i say about Geript at the bottom); so if you still disagree.
Lets talk about this.
Also, sounds to me we both agree that Shevlocke is turn regardless of filter.
Can you give me thoughts on association with Restraining Order.
|
On April 09 2013 12:05 yamato77 wrote:
I'm putting zero stock in your "association" cases.
No, I won't talk about them.
Its a direct comment from Artanis regarding somebody.
You are the tunneled one.
Nothing in your game has changed - unfortunately.
|
On April 09 2013 12:10 yamato77 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
the pressure Artanis put on him was very high and meets the actual definition of a bus
This is also patently false. He refused to vote him, even after calling him scum. That is not a full bus.
Ok, what you said checks out. I got confused and thought he joined you.
So yes, the point above is moot.
I still think overall he is talking to a townie.
Im happy to be proven wrong, but calling me dumb is not the way to do it.
========================================
+ Show Spoiler [Artanis interactions] +On April 08 2013 17:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
*About Sinani*
Why is he trying to be safe? It looks like he's trying hard to not call VE scum despite everything he typed prior to it leading up to it pointing towards wanting to call him scum, then calls him null in the end. Very questionable, and I'm curious to hear what he has to say about S&B since he's returned to the thread, something Sinani's conveniently ignored despite posting after S&B returned. He's just not bothered to comment on it altogether.
Yeah I don't like Sinani at all. I dont treat this as Artanis referencing a scummer. To me, this looks like he is painting someone red, and keeping his options open (even if he voted someone else). I think this, because he used the same authoritative tone with me when talking about "questionable" behaviour in an attempt to cast doubt. Artanis approach this game is to throw a couple suspicious points in, and then let others fill in the blanks. This approach has clearly been taken with Sinani, and was the same with myself. Now I know Im town; I dont really care what you think about me - as I am in no ways a lynch candidate. This is my basis for Sinani being town. ======================================== Compare to when he gives his read on VE. On April 08 2013 06:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:VisceraEyes- Defensive play, agrees with a lot of things in the thread.
- Seems complacent.
- The only game I remember that I played with VE was LI in which he was in everyone's face as scum.
- I also observed his play in Hydra Mini Mafia which he gave up in as soon as he got caught. This game feels like neither.
- He created a bad case on RO.
- Rereading Geript's case on him however does show a few valid points that point towards VE being scum which he never answered.
- Rather than defending himself, VE started attacking people that jumped on the wagon which isn't alignment indicative to me, as it's a both a valid way of finding scum and an easy way to dodge responsibility.
- However, I don't like his 180 going from his initial read of RO to Deconduo over one post that really didn't mean much.
Leaning scum.. I formatted this to a list style for ease of readEverything in the scum read is statement or fact based. Hes filling in the gaps, and theres a different tone. Its confident and self-assured; but rather than trying to cast suspicion, its simply "straight to the point" comments. In essence, there is no inherent guilt when giving this read. I think this approach is very different to how he calls out townies such as myself - and by corollary Sinani. ======================================== One last double check. Lets compare to his #1 scum read: Shelvocke On April 08 2013 06:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Shelvocke- His filter is fairly empty.
- His D1 plan was "pick whatever you like" then never actually pushed it.
- Rather than contributing to plans, he just calls all of them bad.
- Spends a lot of time on setup talk then jumps on the VE wagon as well.
- He never replies to the case made on him or any suspicion laid on him at all.
- Avoiding responsibility for his reads. There's really nothing in his filter to suggest towniness.
Scum. He has tried to write dot point style agian. But the points here are more about nitpicking bad play. Whereas with VE he was actually calling out scummy play. Note he has VE as a scum read; but thinks it is scummy that Shelvocke wagons on VE?? Nice contradiction that noone caught prior. This clearly demonstrates a person trying to create arguments for why someone is scummy.
========================================
TL;DR
When talking to players such as much/Sinani, Artanis tries to create arguments for "questionable' behaviour, to let others take the lead and call them out as scummy.
His Geript case is another example of this.
When talking about players like VE, Artanis is able to directly call out play he doesnt like; and isnt trying to cast doubt with his comments.
|
On April 09 2013 12:13 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2013 12:13 Mocsta wrote:On April 09 2013 12:05 yamato77 wrote:
I'm putting zero stock in your "association" cases.
No, I won't talk about them. Its a direct comment from Artanis regarding somebody. You are the tunneled one. Nothing in your game has changed - unfortunately. You're mafia.
Well done.
Im the guy with the 14 page filter that has been trying to get everyone involved, and solve the game together.
Yes I love being active as scum; but i definitely dont try to solve the game this actively either.
Congratulations Yamato; everyone is laughing at you in the ObsQT.
|
On April 09 2013 12:20 yamato77 wrote:
I was right...?
No.
you were right at one point in time.
Then you retrenched.
So you were wrong in the end.
I moved from Artanis, because I thought NRA was a bigger risk and was worth lynching Day1.
Thats being right.
Ohh, let me guess. I'm scum and decided to bus both Artanis and VE.
|
On April 09 2013 00:56 austinmcc wrote:
In all honesty, I'm considering VE. I still believe shelvocke to be mafia, and I like that lynch a lot. Much of the case on VE is that he hasn't been doing anything, which is NOT something that I expect from mafia-VE, honestly. However, it's not something that I expect from town-VE, especially if geript is telling the truth and SOMEONE up at the top is an NRA member (I agree with the sentiment that if someone at the top took that role, it's likely VE OR shelvocke (again, shelvocke is pretty clearly a smurf and people seem to be overlooking that)).
Kei,
In the above.
He likes Artanis major scum read: Shelvocke & gives a 50/50 on VE.
Considering his position on Artanis: Do you read anything into this?
|
On April 09 2013 12:59 yamato77 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +You did this exact sort of thing in Personality where you tried to pis me off.
I'm on to you.
Ohh cos as scum, we arent emulating town play.. Good one scum hunter extraordinaire.
Kei said it best anyways: and im willing to redact my opinion to his one.
i.e. confirmed town is too strong a word. - perhaps this is where the difference comes from.
Likely town is a better phrase.
Thats my best compromise.
|
Kei
I am in the midst of some VCA.
Did you know you did not vote?
Your last action was: ##Unvote
|
Sharrant is sticking out for me on the VCA so far.
He is never involved in the current thread sentiment with votes.
i.e. he voted Kei and then OO.
Im going to filter his justifications.. Could just be a "hipster" townie.
Its a concern though because end of cycle; scum often like to vote scum, because they dont have fear of retaliation OMGUS.
Its hard though, because due to early cycle we get situations like Keirathi lack of vote.
============
Yam will get a hard-on; because so is Sinani.
That guy only voted StrongandBig; not only that, it was from early on in the cycle (before Gonzaw made his Artanis case)
He came in to the thread and was obviously up to date; but then his vote doesnt reflect that.
|
My vca points out deconduo as very interesting
plus ve voted him and iirc he didnt flinch
anyways. My available time to post is officially dropping to one or two hours a day at night. For ever.
So yeah... Sorry guys.
|
Guys I'm on phone so can't do quotes I'm sorry this won't do it justice.
Deconduo I'm sure is scum
His filter is 3 pages, so there is no excuse to not read it.
Page 1
Look at his interactions with VE. its an out of place comment, especially compared to the other opinions he gives.
Follows up by proclaiming artanis as town.
His scumhunt of snowman is based on starting 1.1
And the kicker. Votes SnB because he was after VE.
Page2
Weird interaction with ve again.
And trays to sell himself as inexperienced scum hunter.
Sets himself to walk away from artanis and is not sold by the case, yet doesn't try to argue any points.
Kicker. Instead of comment on artanis. He participates in the scum alternative bandwagon. Shevlocke
And he still wants Shevlocke and sinani dead after 2 Mafia die.. Even though they were the flipped scums pursuits.
Sinani is questionable yes. But Shevlocke....
Page3
Realises the fuck up voting Shevlocke and retreats.
But, where is him trying to find an alternative??
=====
His filter is filled with no accountability and odd interactions with flipped scum.
Someone take this guy out tonight.
|
On April 07 2013 05:22 sinani206 wrote:
VE are you going to take this game seriously or not? Because if you aren't, I have no qualms with lynching you.
This comment is interesting, and is similar in tone to deconduo.
Its almost as if he is trying to communicate with him.
In personality2 we had a similar problem with ver who wasn't participating in scum qt.
I know this is wifom.
But in the artanis post he answers my last set of questions. He makes a general comment about scum team could be leaderless.
This ties in with ve extremely low activity.
I know the feeling. He ditched me in hydra mini.
|
On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote:
I first want to say that this thread is spammed up to almost the point of unreadable... This is not how Town wins games. Secondly, out of the current lynch candidates, here are my opinions:
VisceraEyes: I was leaning scum before and he hasn't really done anything to change my mind besides participating a little bit more. To be on the safe side, I'll say null with a red tinge.
Keirathi: Null atm, nothing pointing him at being scum, but don't want to say definitely townie so soon. I just played in RTP with him and he seems to be playing rather similarly, so if I had to pick I'd say town.
Restraining Order: Very difficult to read, so I'll wait to see more of him and on him.
StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now.
##Vote: StrongandBig
Taking his play it safe slip in conjunction with the post above.
Yam is right.
Sinani is certainly scum
How nice him and deconduo vote snb who had sights on ve.
Guys. Next 2scum is sinani and deconduo.
|
If I was going to take a guess at last scum
Its out of
Oats
Sno
Meapak
ObviousEyes
And
Wild cared, keirathi.
I don't find kei scummy. I just find he has a really low presence I'm not used to seeing. But I only played 2 games with him.
Oats us more suspect this game than usual, but, u can't see him bussing art for ve. There was no need to swap votes.
Mz I just don't like his play in general, but I guess happy to leave him be. Others have a town read on him for whatever.
Sno is too 50/50 for me. Personally I think he lying low due to misjudging size of game and being 1st pick. But time will tell.
====
This leaves oo as a guess pick.
If I haphazard a guess. He was trying to be disruptive to the thread in the same way bH was in the game.
Im not sure what was thread sentiment when he started spamming but I assume it was when gonzaw put out the artanis case. Or nearby.
Kk. C ya guys. Won't be posting further unless I'm alive next cycle.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
