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On March 28 2013 04:17 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 04:16 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 04:14 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 04:14 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 04:13 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 04:13 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 04:09 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 04:06 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 04:01 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 03:57 Hapahauli wrote:Now as for Nisani, I just have him and Sinani labeled as lurkers. I did a brief dive through their metas last night, and basically arrived at the conclusion that they are lurk-tastic regardless of alignment. Of the two, I thought Sinani had a higher chance of flipping red. He came in and bombed a case at a time when I was railing against prplhz. Often I see scum make plays like this - slam down a confident case against a non-suspicious party in order to look original and throw the town into chaos. Furthermore, when he entered, he also randomly attacked Yamato and soft-pushed the current suspicion of the thread (prplhz) without giving any clear opinions on him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814His filter reads a lot like clean scum-play, and his only real contribution is his case on Nisani, which reads a lot like a lynch-bait case. Also, I really didn't get scum-vibes from Nisani's filter. Yes it's short, and yes he doesn't justify his read on prplhz very much, but the way he pushed Acro early on (and how he came off Acro) seemed fairly genuine. Most of this makes no sense, but especially the bolded bit. His case didn't throw the town into chaos, and I can't even remotely see how it was ever going to throw the town into chaos. Given Acro had been pursuing Nisani already, I also don't see how it was against a "non-suspicious" party. What has Sinani done this game? His filter: 1) A really awkward exchange with me about OO not reading his role PM. 2) Prplhz suspicion he never follows up on: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=25#4973) A neatly packaged case on Nisani: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#8094) ...whilst concurrently making a snide comment against the person defending prplhz (and NOT commenting on his stance on prplhz) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814It reads a lot like your archtypical "clean" scum-play. I've discussed this read with you before, and I've used it successfully in many games. If you disagree, what am I missing here in your view? The fact that sinani is pushing someone I think is mafia. Nisani's early push on Acro was nonsense as elaborated on by Acro himself. Since when does bad case = mafia? Since when does it = town? It's fucking null. you said you liked his push on Acro, and how he backed off it. The push was bullshit and he was forced to back off because the bullshit was exposed. How you like that is beyond me. Yeah but the way he backed down seemed pretty organic. On March 27 2013 06:18 Nisani201 wrote:
I just read through Acro's filter again and I could be wrong about him.
I want to believe Palmar is scum but I've been wrong about him in the past which is why I'm not pushing against him.
I don't really know who else is scum. All of the current candidates are pretty bad. I'm gonna look into Cora. This feels very townie. He discloses a ton more information than he was asked to do so, and even though the thoughts are wishy-washy, I can sympathize with this attitude a lot from a town perspective. He discloses no information at all...
Information about his thought process. Kinda lets you into his mind ya know?
Anyway I don't want to get caught-up in defending a guy that's a null-read for me.
I'm more interested in Sinani because his play fits a "clean" scum Archtype very well. Nisani doesn't seem to really care about how he looks in the thread, whereas Sinani's play looks a lot like he wants to blend in.
Especially looking at that case of his again:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#809
All the reasons he says for Nisani being scum are pretty bad, or at the very least are the least-compelling reasons brought up to find him scum. They are all features of Nisani's normal town-play.
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On March 28 2013 04:18 sinani206 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 04:17 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 04:15 sinani206 wrote:On March 28 2013 04:14 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 04:13 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 04:13 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 04:09 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 04:06 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 04:01 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 03:57 Hapahauli wrote:Now as for Nisani, I just have him and Sinani labeled as lurkers. I did a brief dive through their metas last night, and basically arrived at the conclusion that they are lurk-tastic regardless of alignment. Of the two, I thought Sinani had a higher chance of flipping red. He came in and bombed a case at a time when I was railing against prplhz. Often I see scum make plays like this - slam down a confident case against a non-suspicious party in order to look original and throw the town into chaos. Furthermore, when he entered, he also randomly attacked Yamato and soft-pushed the current suspicion of the thread (prplhz) without giving any clear opinions on him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814His filter reads a lot like clean scum-play, and his only real contribution is his case on Nisani, which reads a lot like a lynch-bait case. Also, I really didn't get scum-vibes from Nisani's filter. Yes it's short, and yes he doesn't justify his read on prplhz very much, but the way he pushed Acro early on (and how he came off Acro) seemed fairly genuine. Most of this makes no sense, but especially the bolded bit. His case didn't throw the town into chaos, and I can't even remotely see how it was ever going to throw the town into chaos. Given Acro had been pursuing Nisani already, I also don't see how it was against a "non-suspicious" party. What has Sinani done this game? His filter: 1) A really awkward exchange with me about OO not reading his role PM. 2) Prplhz suspicion he never follows up on: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=25#4973) A neatly packaged case on Nisani: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#8094) ...whilst concurrently making a snide comment against the person defending prplhz (and NOT commenting on his stance on prplhz) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814It reads a lot like your archtypical "clean" scum-play. I've discussed this read with you before, and I've used it successfully in many games. If you disagree, what am I missing here in your view? The fact that sinani is pushing someone I think is mafia. Nisani's early push on Acro was nonsense as elaborated on by Acro himself. Since when does bad case = mafia? Since when does it = town? It's fucking null. Yeah, but you were using it to defend him. Yes. What's your point? I'm saying a major reason he's getting pushed is non-alignment indicative. Sounds pretty valid to me. Well that case on Acro was never one of my reasons to go after Nisani anyway. Either way, there's a ton more stuff that you haven't really addressed specifically.
Well lets take a look at your case then. You and Nisani have a seemingly long history of playing games together. When I look at Nisani's game-history, I see a lot of the traits you accuse him of in his town games.
How is his play different from normal town-Nisani? You of all people should know this best.
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Ya know what I'm pretty convinced that Nisani is town.
A cursory look through his meta reveals some very stark differences between his typical scum-play (full of trolly, short one-liners with no objective purpose) and this game.
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Vote for Sinani
You will be rewarded with townie points.
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Palmar, please tell everyone to vote Sinani. I lack the hypnotic charm required to have the entire town sheep me.
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Oh Kei huh? I'll look into that a bit. Still fairly convinced Sinani is scum though.
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1.5 hours is plenty of time Corazon. Less time whining, and more time commenting.
Oh, and vote Sinani.
Town-case on Nisani incoming.
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Nisani is prob town! Let's take a look at his scum-games.
Merc Mini 2:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=240842&user=105586¤tpage=All
Full of irrelevant discussion, one wishy-washy list-post, and random "playful" posts with no objective.
Mafia XLV:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=266305&user=105586¤tpage=All
Basically the same thing, bunch of troll one-liner comments, and does nothing but tunnel WBG with barely any rationale.
Mafia L:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=105586¤tpage=All
More pointless trolly comments. Doens't scumhunt and talks about random crap outside of one mega-case against a player.
Aperture Mafia:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319120&user=105586¤tpage=All
Again, FULL of pointless, trolly comments.
Contrast this with his play this game. He's pushed an Acro lynch, and while for questionable logic, it's markedly different from anything I've seen him EVER do in ANY of his scumgames. He has no pointless trolly comments, everything he's doing has a scumhunting purpose, adn this guy is town.
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Sinani is Scum. Here's why:
1) He has a HUGE HISTORY playing with Nisani! He of all people should understand how to read Nisani very well. Instead, his case...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#809
... is completely comprised of stuff that is in Nisani's town games as well!
2) Sinani fits the "clean" mafia Archetype. He's done nothing but put together a well-packaged case in the middle of a giant crusade against prplhz. The case is scummy for the reasons above, as well as the timing and circumstance.
Scum bombing cases in the middle of shitfights is an incredibly common play to look like you're actively contributing while throwing a wrench in the town.
Secondly, Sinani bombs his case WHILE soft-pushing the prplhz lynch:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814
Thirdly, he's done literally nothing outside of that case. Scum want to do just enough to blend in and nothing else, and his play fits that perfectly.
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No, Sinani is scum and we're lynching him today. Admittedly I have not looked enough into Kei as I should, but I'm pretty confident I caught a mafia over here. I'll look at Kei more now, but I don't expect to be convinced enough to vote him over Sinani.
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Duh. It's not like I'm talking out of my ass this time.
I think.
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On March 28 2013 04:59 ObviousOne wrote:
Just woke up and caught up.
If it's between Kei and Sinani I'll go with the former
Keirathi laughed off my suspicions of him early game and I thought that was related to a conversation we had pre-game where he told me to make silly cases. His response was "I've created a monster" and to me it looked like he was simply laughing it off in an offhandedly way -- as if my suspicions were just completely unfounded and terribly reasoned -- which later convinced me to drop it when nobody really commented on it.
As for Sinani I'm okay with lynching him based on participation level this game, the meta stuff doesn't fascinate me too terribly much in his case when I can barely remember he's even playing the game.
Again, I want to lynch Keirathi over Sinani.
Very little of my Sinani case is meta. It's based off of his lack of contribution and the incredibly scummy timing and circumstances around the lone contribution in his filter (AND he soft-pushed prplhz while doing so).
The only meta point I bring up is pretty infalliable IMO:
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Anyway gotta step out for an hour, be back soon.
Kei is an active player, and should be given tomorrow to explain himself. I am not convinced he's scum. Yes he sheeped on prplhz. No I don't think htat's conclusive yet given his activity this game compared with his terrible scum-game in Duel Mini.
There's more than enough evidence to see Sinani hang right now.
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On March 28 2013 05:02 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 04:58 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 28 2013 04:55 cDgCorazon wrote:
@Marv and Oats:
Right now, adding in the Kei case is anti-consolidation. Because a lack of consolidation would mean a no-lynch, anti-consolidation would mean anti-town.
Why are you guys trying to add in another case to steal potential votes away from Nisani? To save your scumbuddy by forcing a no-lynch, yet at the same time looking like you are scum hunting?
It's not very hard to see through your ruse, Marv.
My town read on you = gone. Why the fuck does marv pushing another player from you mean that he is scum?? You seem 100% sure that Nisani is scum. Why are you so sure? I'm not 100% sure Nisani is scum, but I'm more sure about him than I am with Yamato. There's no use making a hipster vote because we need to lynch someone today. A no-lynch would only leave us with more questions and give the scum a huge victory for D1. It's not because he is pushing a different players, it's because he is pushing a new read so close to the deadline. It reeks of trying to save Nisani from being lynched. @Hapa: I think you are putting way too much faith in Nisani's meta. I went and read his vote on Acro and there's not much beside him quoting one scummy sentence and saying that Acro doesn't have much else in his filter so he must be scum. His vote on prp is absolutely silly, and he has refused to give a reason. Just like you shouldn't build cases solely on metas, you shouldn't build defenses solely on metas.
Fuck me I need to do a podcast on meta. All y'alls have no idea what you're doing when it comes to it.
Meta is fantastic for highlight broad/general differences in mentality. In Nisani's case, he has very two different mindsets between his scum and town games wiht a HUGE sample-size to back it up.
While he's a lurker in all his games, his town games are markedly more productive. He pushes cases, and tries to scumhunt, and all his posts are towards an objective purpose. When he's scum, he's "chatty," "trolly," and barely contributes.
And this is consistent over MANY MANY of his games. 4 scumgames, and many more town games.
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Marv - have you changed your mind about Kei yet?
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Wait what? Deadline's in an hour
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On March 28 2013 00:24 Kurumi wrote:Day 1 Vote Tally - 6 hours 30 minutes to go! Nisani201Acrofales marvellosity sinani206 prplhz prplhzKeirathi Nisani201 Hapahauli PalmarOatsmaster cDgCorazonInsertSmurfHere InsertSmurfHereDandel Ion Nobody is up for a lynch yet! Reminder, you need 9 votes to lynch somebody!
This means 07:00 TL time.
WE HAVE AN HOUR LEFT
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Have no idea. Nisani - what are your other reads right now? Also, you should consider defending yourself against some of the points against you (prplhz sheep vote, etc). I don't want to do this all on my own.
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EPT
