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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On March 16 2013 03:26 marvellosity wrote: leave it till tomorrow for late weekend signups? So will you /in if you die in Personality or Hydra tonight? | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On March 16 2013 03:40 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Marvellosity is going to be obsing/analysing the game I'm trying to get Ace in but he's not available for a couple of days I think so I put him in as a replacement. I Pm'd qatol/incog/bumatlarge/radfield/rol/syllogism Dayum. This game mad legit. +1 hosting points to you DrH OK marv you're off the hook. But still, try your best to die tonight in Hydra so Keir can join. | ||
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sciberbia
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sciberbia
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5-6 scum, ~5 blues? I've never played a game this big before. | ||
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sciberbia
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On March 16 2013 16:11 geript wrote: Sciberbia, can you give me a number between 568 and 1193? 570 | ||
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sciberbia
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On March 16 2013 16:22 Wade Fell wrote: geript is there a particular reason you haven't voted for zarepath since you already rnged him? it seems to me that if you realy wanted to rng your lynch, you'd use the lynch you've already rnged. Why the cold feet? On March 16 2013 16:24 geript wrote: Didn't Layabout say that I couldn't use that rng though? Now I have to use my more complex one. The first possibly important thing I noticed in the thread. The phrasing of the first sentence as a question instead of a statement seems a bit odd to me. It's like he's saying "Would you find this explanation acceptable?" rather than "This is the explanation." Seems unnecessarily passive and ingratiating. On March 16 2013 16:48 geript wrote: Well if that's how this game is going to start, then I think I'd rather just go to bed as well. This rubs me a bit the wrong way. Seems like a crummy reason to go to bed. People accuse you of being mafia so you go to bed? What? Also, seems like he's almost providing an 'excuse' to leave the thread. Overall, leaning scum on geript. I don't think it is especially likely that zarepath and geript are both scum. If zarepath and geript actually were scumbuddies, I think there is an excellent chance that geript would have either gone through with the RNG vote (with the knowledge that it is very unlikely to lead to a lynch and with the devious hope that town would later get confused by WIFOM), or just drop the RNG thing all-together. | ||
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sciberbia
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Nah I have other things on my mind atm. Since you seem to be willing to talk about things relevant to the game, what do you make of this quote: On March 16 2013 16:24 Wade Fell wrote: Is this your first mafia game or are you really a smurf of someone i know trying to pull this garbage This stuck out to me. Seems like a bit of a pointless question. Also, I think it was pretty clear from Peashooter's first post that he has played mafia before, and probably on this forum. Not sure that there's anything to read into this though. I think you have some prior experience with this Wade Fell character so I'm interested in your opinion of him thus far. He was surprisingly quick to make some bold posts and draw attention to himself. Do you make anything of it? | ||
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On March 16 2013 17:47 VisceraEyes wrote: Honestly it just looks like BH using too many words to say "I don't like this" as he's wont to do. Frankly I didn't like it either, and I look forward to hearing what Peashooter has to say about that post. Do you think that knowing what the names of the roles MIGHT mean is going to help us find scum? So you think BH is more likely to be town for his aggression towards Peashooter? | ||
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sciberbia
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On March 16 2013 17:54 VisceraEyes wrote: The way you phrased this is odd...as if you're trying to get me to say that I'll think people are town if they're aggressive toward Peashooter specifically. Anyway, he hasn't really given any reasoning other than "this is garbage" so I'm not taking it as any kind of tell right now. He hasn't even said that he thinks Peashooter is scum O.O I meant it as 'is this early aggression towards Peashooter something you would expect from a town BH as opposed to a mafia BH?'. To which I suppose the answer is no because you seem completely null on him. But for the record he has made it pretty clear that he thinks Peashooter is scum. Personally, I have no problem with Peashooter. Although unproductive, It's obviously tempting to speculate about such a mysterious setup. And I don't fault people for lack of scumhunting in their first couple posts. The game just started and not everyone is super-tryhard. So I don't find that post scummy just as I don't find talk about tarot cards or your SAST thing scummy. | ||
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sciberbia
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On March 16 2013 18:26 VisceraEyes wrote: Interesting. Out of everyone who has posted, you are by far the most verbose. I expect you will be equally verbose when describing things you DO find scummy. ok? Your expectation has been noted. | ||
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sciberbia
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On March 17 2013 07:15 DoYouHas wrote: Scib caught my eye with his first post against geript + Show Spoiler + On March 16 2013 17:23 sciberbia wrote: I've got some stuff to say about geript The first possibly important thing I noticed in the thread. The phrasing of the first sentence as a question instead of a statement seems a bit odd to me. It's like he's saying "Would you find this explanation acceptable?" rather than "This is the explanation." Seems unnecessarily passive and ingratiating. This rubs me a bit the wrong way. Seems like a crummy reason to go to bed. People accuse you of being mafia so you go to bed? What? Also, seems like he's almost providing an 'excuse' to leave the thread. Overall, leaning scum on geript. I don't think it is especially likely that zarepath and geript are both scum. If zarepath and geript actually were scumbuddies, I think there is an excellent chance that geript would have either gone through with the RNG vote (with the knowledge that it is very unlikely to lead to a lynch and with the devious hope that town would later get confused by WIFOM), or just drop the RNG thing all-together. I don't really have a conclusion to this, Scib's other posts don't raise red flags for me and what I have is not enough to turn him scum. I just want to hear more from Scib. I think it's foolish to start pushing a lynch 2 hours into day 1. Chances are someone more scummy comes along. Reads that I make early in D1 are more for the purpose of generating discussion than pushing lynches. For example my post on shiaopi/prphlhz/forumite in dwarf mini or my post about marv in I can't believe. Anyway, now is the time when I need to figure out who I want to lynch. I like the wagon on goodkarma a lot. I'm still leaning scum on geript. Also I agree with some of the things said about Greymist and zarepath. Looking more into these filters now. | ||
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sciberbia
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I think SAST is a bad idea because it is a waste of time to be discussing the SAST. Such as right now. You and I are discussing the SAST when instead we could be discussing who is scum. If anyone actually went through with it, pages and pages of filter would inevitably be devoted to debating stupid SAST stuff. I agree with what Wiggles said about TPS. I don't have any strong feelings about TPS's alignment one way or the other. You could just as easily argue that Hyaach is declining to take part in town discussions by not posting at all. But I don't think we should lynch Hyaach. Anyway, I wrote up some thoughts on zarepath and GK. I think both are better lynches than TPS. I'm gonna post them now. DYH I'm interested in your thoughts on zarepath. | ||
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Here is zarepath's first post: + Show Spoiler + On March 16 2013 22:05 zarepath wrote: In the last game I played, literally every single person who claimed town in their opening post was scum. VE did say in the analysis that he always claims town no matter what, though. But seriously, what is the town motivation for claiming town so early? There's more scum motivation than town motivation. Yeah, I reject this notion for obvious reasons, but also for the fact that this is already an association case, isn't it? Granted, I suppose if you assume that there are scum motivations for him switching his RNG, the most obvious reason would be because his original RNG was going to hit scum. But wasn't he told he couldn't use that anyway and have it count as a real RNG? And again, you're already operating on the assumption the switch was scum-motivated. VE's super awesome team sounds dumb. I can't see how any self-respecting scum hunter would agree to unite their votes with 4 other active people no matter what. And honestly, don't the self-respecting scum hunters kind of unite with each other as they prove themselves to each other anyway? I am much more in favor of a "lead scumhunting team" coming about organically from the good scum-hunters recognizing each other as being good than VE deciding who is good and then telling them how to vote. Also, I find all role and setup speculation stupid at this point; even regarding the fact that the OP suggests the possibility of victory conditions changing throughout the game, I don't see how town is better served in finding scum through role speculation without any information with which to base it on, and I don't see why town would want to do anything other than promote a pro-town atmosphere and find scum on the first day regardless of the setup. /offtopic: flavor is awesome  I think this analysis by Hopeless1der is quite accurate: On March 16 2013 23:38 Hopeless1der wrote: Overall, I read through this post and zarepath keeps playing devil's advocate with himself and answering his own questions. There is no mindset of wanting to solve the game to me. I think he's scum. It seems to me that zarepath is trying to say the "right" things but there isn't a lot of heart in it. - claiming town accomplishes nothing - association cases are bad on D1 - sheeping people is dumb - good scumhunters should work together - setup speculation is dumb He rattles off a bunch of generic pro-town advice, but I don't get the feeling that he is actually trying to help town. As Hopeless1der says, there is no drive. On March 16 2013 22:13 zarepath wrote: EBWOP: As an addendum to my final paragraph, that is why I find Peashooter's opening content to be pretty scummy. Honestly, any player could have gone through and guessed at roles based on the titles (and probably did; I did as I skimmed them), but I think it's hardly worth talking about right now. I echo Wave Fell's sentiments here about Peashooter's likely scumminess. This quote also bothers me. In this quote, he makes it seem like Peashooter is his major suspect. Seems to me that zarepath should be strongly considering a Peashooter lynch. But the rest of his filter seems very inconsistent with this original stance on Peashooter. Zarepath originally lumped Peashooter in with VE, Coag, and myself, all of whom he gave pretty weak reasons (IMO) for "keeping an eye on". Peashooter has made more posts and been discussed at length in the thread subsequent to Zarepath's original comments. Wade Fell recently tried to start a wagon on Peashooter. Zarepath did not hop on the wagon. He has not even commented on it. He just picked some holes in cosmicomics' relatively unimportant and unpopular case on DP. Zarepath has not commented on the potential GK or Peashooter wagons despite being in the thread. In summary, my reasons for thinking Zarepath is mafia are: - he uses a silly heuristic (claimed town) to add two people to his watch-list - he seems to be reaching for things to say in his first post and his heart doesn't seem in it - his original stance on Peashooter is distintcly inconsistent with his later actions (or lack thereof) - he is choosing to comment on the DP case when there are much more important wagons (peashooter and GK) - the fact that he's been in the thread a long time and hasn't started promoting any lynch Based on the evidence so far, I think Zarepath would be a good lynch, but there are a few other filters I still want to look into. | ||
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sciberbia
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I will admit that zarepath has thrown out more accusations than I would expect from scum on D1. Still, there a few things in his filter that point to him being scum. mmm. I guess I will look more into GK's meta and wait for his next post before deciding where I stand on him. Damn you BH. You're making me doubt my reads. I need to read/think more. | ||
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sciberbia
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can you tell me how likely you think TPS is to be scum? You originally said you thought he was "pretty scummy" and was "likely scumminess" or something like that. Now you say you're not convinced of it entirely? Does that mean you still think he's pretty likely to be scum but are still looking for somewhere better to put your vote? Basically just give me your thoughts on TPS. | ||
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GreyMist I could pretty easily see GreyMist being scum. I agree with what sandroba and somebody else said about his first post. Then he lurked for a while. Upon emerging from lurking, he jumped on a post of GK accusing him of lurking saying "I've been waiting for this!". Then he repeatedly piled on GK. I see scum motivation here where greymist justifies his lurking and pushes a mislynch. Two birds with one stone. Also, I don't think his arguments about GK are particularly good. I wouldn't feel too bad about a greymist lynch today. Peashooter I don't want to lynch him. Pretty good chance he's town. He drew attention to himself with the Coag thing, continued to push Coag, picked a fight with DH, and has shown willingness to interact with the thread. Seems more likely town than not. Not sure if he is even a lynch candidate anymore. Coagulation I don't vote people unless I think they are scum and I really don't have a clue. if I had to hazard a guess I would say town. TestSubject The main accusation seems to be that he chose to talk about stuff other than who he thinks is scum. I don't know TestSubject but he seems relatively new so it's a bit unreasonable to demand original scumreads after just one read-through. Also, his willingness to interact with the thead and some of the stuff he says about GK gives me a townie feel. Not interested in lynching TestSubject. zarepath I'm pretty interested in lynching this guy. I stated some supsicions before and his behavior since then further suggests he is scum. Here are the quotes: + Show Spoiler + On March 17 2013 12:33 zarepath wrote: I haven't hopped on the GK or TPS bandwagons because I'm not convinced of them entirely. I've never played in a game this large and there are a LOT of people who have posted almost literally nothing, and several people whose small contributions have been less substantial than either of these two players (DarthPunk, Trancestorm, sandroba, Coagulation). I hear what people are saying about them, but I hadn't taken into account the point that TPS is obviously a proxy, and that muddles the waters a bit. It's not like there's an enormous wagon on GK right now -- half the thread has hardly posted and there's what, two or three people talking about him? I can see why; it's not like it's bad to talk about him, but I just don't have anything to add. I also thought it was quite scummy for him to basically give his Pro Town resume of all the wonderfully pro town things he's done (which under scrutiny he hasn't done), and I can understand that looking pretty bad. But I know what it's like to think you have a solid pro-town filter as town and apparently it wasn't as solid and obvious as you assumed. But he's also promised he has a case coming, and I can understand the desire to wait until you feel confident about a case to really push it. I'm inclined to see what he comes up with and re-evaluate my read from there. On March 17 2013 12:34 zarepath wrote: EBWOP: Sundays are my busiest days and I am not likely to be around as much as some of you may like tomorrow. I will check up on the thread and read through it when I can and such and certainly have a vote in, but I won't be making it into the SAST tomorrow, that's for sure. Just an FYI for you all. I don't like the first post at all. He says he hasn't commented on the GK or TPS bandwaggons because he isn't "entirely convinced". Again, he makes it seem like he is very suspicious of people but doesn't commit. He says that the fact that TPS is a proxy "muddles the waters a bit" but does not explain at all how it affects his read of TPS. Seems like a way to just avoid having to give a read on TPS. Furthermore, he describes GK's behavior as "quite scummy" but then sympathizes with the same behavior that he just called "quite scummy." More of the same non-commital and devil's advocate. Next, he says he is busy on Sundays and disappears when I ask him to clarify his read on TPS. goodkarma Here are some of the more important reasons that I found goodkarma suspicious: - he felt the need to comment on VE's SAST post but didn't come to any conclusion about VE from it - his first few posts reek of 'i am goint to say non-controversial things so please don't pay any attention to me' - his playing mr. nice guy with coag However, after reading through some of his previous games, I think there's a pretty decent chance he's townie this game. He loves to talk about policy in general so I can see him going out of his way to talk policy about VE. Also, his posts since his accusation of Greymist have just been giving me a townier feel. He is willing to talk with people in the thread and isn't just vanishing like scum are prone to do when under pressure. Blech I dunno about this guy. Right now my gut feeling is town. cosmicomics I don't know if he's really a lynch candidate but his filter is pretty alarming. It consists of a pretty much 100% sheep off of layabout onto DP and pretty much nothing else. Also I think he is a smurf which makes this an even bigger cause for concern. I feel best about a zarepath lynch. I'm voting him now. Going to bed pretty soon but will be online for at least a little while longer if anyone wants to discuss something with me. ##Vote: zarepath | ||
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sciberbia
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zarepath is still an option and I still think there is a good chance he is scum. Several other people also think this so zarepath is a legitimate lynch candidate for today. Please thoroughly read what I, geript, DYH, hopeless1der have said about him if you haven't already. I will probably look through his meta referenced by geript. GreyMist is a lynch I think I could get behind. I agree with what somebody (ryu?) said about GreyMist not 'setting a trap' which is what I was getting at in my earlier post about him. sandroba seems like a terrible lynch. He is like the definition of 'keep this player around and try to get a read D2'. He stopped into the thread, made some reasonable but short posts, and then lurked. From what I've heard he lurks as both mafia and town. On top of that, he has a mod-confirmed somewhat legitimate reason for being afk and is getting replaced. We have every reason to expect to be able to get a read from his replacement. I don't think sandroba should be a lynch candidate. vivax clearly did not "slip" as explained by a few others already. I don't think Vivax's guess at TPS's identity says anything about his alignment. I haven't looked too much into vivax besides this. DYH is one of my stronger townreads. He has made several good analytical points, he has been willing to do meta research on GK, and he supported the SAST in the face of several people who said it was dumb. He also showed that he cares about town by 'trying not to split focus' which is definitely a problem right now. I don't see the case against him. DP I was leaning town on after his original bout of posting because he was willing to draw attention to himself early in the game. He seems like a lynch candidate now so I'll look over the case against him. GK seems to still be on the table. My thoughts on him haven't changed. cosmicomics is definitely concerning but he's hardcore lurking right now. I'm not too keen on lynching a hardcore lurker today. | ||
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On March 18 2013 04:57 sciberbia wrote: Wiggles, how would you feel about a GreyMist or zarepath lynch? VE, same question to you. Particularly GreyMist. | ||
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On March 17 2013 08:51 zarepath wrote: At the same time, do you really see scum laying a vote down that early? I'll have to check, but I dont' think thread sentiment was exactly pushing for a geript lynch. On March 18 2013 09:03 zarepath wrote: Okay, I just poked in to catch up as much as I can -- sorry that I am looking scummy; I will be able to participate much more during the week (as opposed to the weekend) and will hopefully be able to prove my alignment in a better fashion than I have thus far. Darth Punk was one of something like 8 different people I suspected yesterday, and from the last couple of pages it seems as though his defense of other people's pressure hasn't been stellar. Mainly, all of his reads have been people who have been pressuring him, and much of his text is defending the first day of his game, not actively trying to find out who is scum. The people he lists as scum suspects are not people he's trying to get others to lynch; it's entirely responsive. I don't know if anybody else has mentioned this, but his first post seemed almost suspiciously over the top (I'm so excited for this game!), and that's another reason I feel okay about lynching him. I wish I'd had time to look over some more candidates, but at this moment (and time is running short) I don't feel too bad about throwing my vote onto DarthPunk. ##Vote: DarthPunk Why did you defend DP from cosmicomics yesterday if you thought his first post was suspiciously over the top and you suspected him? | ||
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sciberbia
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I'm still pretty interested in lynching zarepath and Greymist. Leaning more toward zarepath. GK might be scum but I'm more and more thinking he's town because of the way he's continually interacted with the thread while under pressure. Yes he is floundering a bit but that can happen to townies under pressure too. I'm also not a fan of the case on DP. I think his early vote is more likely a townie move because it draws attention to him. The fact that he is counterattacking everyone who attacked him is a common townie response. Furthermore, it seems like he genuinely wants to get VE lynched. I'm stuck doing some dumb schoolwork right now, but after I'm done I hope to help us consolidate onto a good lynch. Will just be keeping up with the thread until then. 3.5 hours at the most. Hopefully less.. | ||
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sciberbia
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On March 18 2013 09:34 geript wrote: Greymist is by far the better lynch today. I don't see how he's added anything constructive. Share paths inconsistencies can be explained by other things and is at least worth a day of listening too. Your fucktarded if you can't even see that. lol are you talking to me? | ||
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sciberbia
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On March 18 2013 09:43 geript wrote: Both you and DP. Well if I'm fucktarded for agreeing with your top two reads in reverse order, I can't wait to see you address the rest of the thread voting for GK, DP, etc. Carry on. | ||
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sciberbia
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On March 18 2013 09:53 geript wrote: I don't think my exploits last game need to be documented anymore. I played shitty and stupid and got myself mislynches. As town. I at least can empathize with Zare's position. Yes, I still think he's likely to be scum. But I'd be a stupid, cold heartless bastard to not have put myself in his shoes and considered how I would act. Or have acted. He's at least worth the effort to try and get a better read on or we may be able to get more useful information out of if he's scum. It's at least worth a wait. If someone is scum, we should lynch them. Play to win. I recall a post you made yesterday where you said, and i quote, "zarepath is SCUM", and he has certainly not done any town-telling since then. DYH, I look forward to your conclusions from looking through zarepath's meta. | ||
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sciberbia
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On March 17 2013 15:30 geript wrote: I don't see any evidence from that game that Zarepath thought that claiming or not claiming town was in anyway alignment indicative. I also don't see how he would've formed a different opinion on the matter as I'm not aware of other games he's played in the mean time. The Zarepath that I remember from NMM37 was reasonable and interacted with the thread more. This Zarepath looks intentionally dense. I'm personally pissed that Sciberbia stole my thunder. Zarepath is SCUM. On March 18 2013 00:30 geript wrote: Fine, what are your reservations on a zarepath lynch? On March 18 2013 00:56 geript wrote: Sorry, missed that last line. Ok, then other than the quoting thing are there other reasons to be voting for TPS over Zarepath? today: On March 18 2013 09:34 geript wrote: Greymist is by far the better lynch today. I don't see how he's added anything constructive. Share paths inconsistencies can be explained by other things and is at least worth a day of listening too. Your fucktarded if you can't even see that. On March 18 2013 09:53 geript wrote: I don't think my exploits last game need to be documented anymore. I played shitty and stupid and got myself mislynches. As town. I at least can empathize with Zare's position. Yes, I still think he's likely to be scum. But I'd be a stupid, cold heartless bastard to not have put myself in his shoes and considered how I would act. Or have acted. He's at least worth the effort to try and get a better read on or we may be able to get more useful information out of if he's scum. It's at least worth a wait. Does anyone else find this sequence of posts disturbing? Geript was clearly a big fan of lynching zarepath yesterday. He was in fact pushing the zarepath lynch. Since yesterday, zarepath looks if anything scummier, and the bandwagon on him has gotten stronger, and suddenly geript refuses to lynch him anymore. I can't help but wonder if the geript + zarepath theory was right all along. | ||
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sciberbia
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What are your thoughts on zarepath? | ||
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Also DYH, did you find anything interesting in zarepath's meta? I guess I'll go make a votecount myself. Seems like we are between zarepath and greymist tho. | ||
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sciberbia
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goodkarma (3): GreYMisT, kitaman, kenpachi GreYMisT (9): Ryu, GK, Vivax, Geript, coagulation, cosmicomics, wade fell, wiggles, TPS zarepath (5): sciberbia, Hopeless1der, DYH, DP, layabout DoYouHas (1): TranceStorm DarthPunk (5): VE, WoS, glurio, Coagulation, zarepath not voting (2): Hyaach, TestSubject893 If a host could give an official one that would be great. | ||
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sciberbia
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goodkarma (2): GreYMisT, kitaman GreYMisT (11): Ryu, GK, Vivax, Geript, coagulation, cosmicomics, wade fell, wiggles, TPS, kenpachi, zarepath zarepath (5): sciberbia, Hopeless1der, DYH, DP, layabout DoYouHas (1): TranceStorm DarthPunk (4): VE, WoS, glurio, Coagulation not voting (2): Hyaach, TestSubject893 | ||
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sciberbia
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On March 18 2013 09:19 sciberbia wrote: Why did you defend DP from cosmicomics yesterday if you thought his first post was suspiciously over the top and you suspected him? @zarepath Can you answer to this? | ||
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Why are you voting Zarepath now? You just called me fucktarded for thinking he's a better lynch than GreyMist. | ||
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Couple things I've noticed so far: - The DP wagon was pretty bad IMO. I just read through DP's filter and holy hell did he have to put up with a lot of shit. I will be looking hard at people that sheeped onto that wagon (glurio, cosmic, WoS, zarepath) - Coag hopped on the DP bandwaggon in the voting thread despite never mentioning him in his filter. Is this normal Coag behavior? Too scummy to be scum? - I can't get the geript + zarepath theory out of my head. I will probably make a post further expounding upon this before the deadline. - Hyaach didn't post. Is Hyaach going to be an unflipped modkill? I'll probably be around for a while reading filters and would be happy to converse with anyone else online so this doesn't become a silent night. | ||
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sciberbia
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Also, I was very happy to see Keirathi is replacing in. I'm sure Ace and Mocsta are cool too, although I have never played with them before. Welcome all. | ||
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sciberbia
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Wade Fell - early game a bit sketchy - defends zarepath but interested in response to question - suspiciously backs off his initial zarepath + geript scumteam theory - suspiciously confident that GK is town - scummy jump onto GM wagon seems scummy can expand upon these later but a bit busy right now. Are you allowed to post the mason logs? iirc you are not. | ||
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sciberbia
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Well if you are indeed allowed to post them I see no reason why you shouldn't. | ||
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sciberbia
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Can you explain why you chose to mason GK and then VE? Also, I think you might as well claim your role in full and tell us if you are allowed to post the mason logs or not. Probably wait until the daypost to do this though. | ||
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On March 19 2013 13:38 Keirathi wrote: Yo scib I still haven't finished reading (I got caught up in huge IRC chat, and Hydra+Personality ending), but why do you seem all bark and no bite this game? You know I have a *TON* of respect for your town game. I'm not feeling it so far this game, though. What do?  And I was so looking forward to your first post Keirathi. Yea I'm not too happy with my play this game either. I hate lynching townies. As to "all bark and no bite" I know what you mean. This game feels different to me, maybe because of the size. I feel like I haven't been guiding town sufficiently well.Don't know what else to say though. Maybe you have *TOO* much respect for my town game. I'll do my best to not disappoint on D2. How bout that. Also, please be town. | ||
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On March 19 2013 14:07 Keirathi wrote: EBWOP: But certainly, if you play more up to my standards on day 2, all is good <3 OK OK you have motivated me to spend every available waking moment on this game for the next 48 hours. D2 scum lynch incoming. Now it'll be really tragic if I get shot tonight x_x | ||
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On March 18 2013 23:26 zarepath wrote: I am re-reading through the thread right now, but this makes me think that TPS is town. On March 19 2013 02:25 zarepath wrote: I think that if TPS were town he would have at this point told us whether Vivax was guessing or not, because right now it makes both of them look scummy. Care to clarify your stance on TPS zarapeth? Keirathi, talk to me about zarepath. Everything in his filter says scum to me but he keeps reminding me of my Forumite mistake from Dwarf Mini with his apologies and multiple self-contradictions. I'd greatly appreciate your opinion on him. | ||
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I did one readthrough of everyone's filter during night-phase. Here are the people I felt best about being town: vivax, DP, DYH And here are people I think have a decent chance of being scum: geript WoS BH glurio zarapeth trancestorm cosmicomics Meh not sure I should even post this. Well if I die, at least look into the filters I listed for possible scum. | ||
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wtf | ||
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On March 19 2013 16:05 DoYouHas wrote: Gotta say, that instantly makes me like a zarepath lynch much less. same | ||
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On March 19 2013 16:02 WaveofShadow wrote: Aside from BH, I see a common theme in your scum list, that is, players who either have barely contributed or could be seen as newbies. I don't like it, and not just because I'm included. errr, who in this game exactly would you consider to be both relatively experience and to have contributed a significant amount? VE and BH? | ||
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On March 19 2013 16:07 Wade Fell wrote: Sciberbia, what do YOu think about TPS? you talk about him a lot (link)(link)(link)(link) but I don't see any comments on his alignment besides an early null (link) I have 'leaning town' in my notes. I will look over what you have said about him and make a more thorough evaluation. | ||
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On March 19 2013 16:12 Ace wrote: How does Keirathi's death paint zarepath as innocent? I highly value Keirathi's opinion. The fact that he was town means that his opinion was in fact that zarepath is town. I still think zarepath is reasonably likely to be scum, but I'm less confident than I was 2 hours ago as a result of Keirathi's townread and flip. | ||
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On March 19 2013 16:16 WaveofShadow wrote: More so than me and most of the other 'newbies' named on his list, Mocsta. The list just looks to me like he's looking for easy scumreads to throw out there with minimal chance of being called out if he's wrong because they're either new/bad or lurky. I'd be happy to explain any of those reads. I just threw them out there so people would have something to look through if I got shot. Right now I am going to look into TPS though as requested by BH. Also, I am definitely pretty new (I think this is my 4th non-newbie game) and yea I don't even know goodkarma or Mocsta. Anyway, I'm off to catch up on the BH situation and read his post on TPS. | ||
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Wade Fell I've been thinking about the recent messenger claim, and I've concluded that we should not consider lynching BH in the near future despite VE's accusations. First of all, the fact that he is a mason explains why he was oddly confident that GK was town yesterday. Next, keep in mind that he KNEW there was a flipped town mason role when he chose to contact VE. Seems like a pretty reckless move as scum. If BH is scum, there was nothing stopping him from "masoning" with one of his scumpartners and avoiding suspicion. + Show Spoiler + Of course there is the possibility that both VE and BH are scum and this is some crazy play, but I'm going to dismiss that for now as quite unlikely There are still a few things about BH's D1 play I find scummy, but after reading through the events of N1, my gut tells me town. And anyway, just as a matter of strategy, he is confirmed blue/scum. If he is blue, scum will have to choose between leaving a blue vet alive and using a KP on him. Win/Win for us. And if he is scum, that will probably become more obvious later down the line once we know more about the setup (and perhaps see the flips of GK and VE). Anyway, I have a post written about about TPS for mr. wade fell so that's coming next. | ||
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On March 19 2013 16:07 Wade Fell wrote: Sciberbia, what do YOu think about TPS? you talk about him a lot (link)(link)(link)(link) but I don't see any comments on his alignment besides an early null (link) The Peashooter Not sure how you missed it, but I did give an updated read on him in one of those links, in which I explained why I thought there was a pretty good chance he is town. Mainly due to his seeming lack of interest in the lynch, I am now neutral on TPS. accusation that his first post was scummy Setup speculation is tempting and I don't expect people to scumhunt in the first hour of the game. + Show Spoiler + If anything, it makes me think townier of him. Does it seem like a typical scum move to get your role PM, meet up with your scumbuddies in the QT, and immediately spend 20 minutes constructing some half-assed setup speculative post, and introducing yourself to the thread with it? IMO, the answer is no. Also, he did not even preview his first post. I think scum would be nervous about blundering with their first post and make sure to at least give it a preview. accusation of fake anger at spam I don't see sufficient evidence that his anger at your spamming was faked. First of all, it's not like he went on a tirade. He just told you to shut up and consolidate. Secondly, it makes perfect sense that he was mad at you for spamming (as opposed to VE) because he was already pissed at you from your earlier disagreements with him. Thirdly, the sequence of posts he mentions was in fact annoying. Particularly when you and VE spent several posts talking about some other game. accusations about opting out of town discussion I agree it is a cause for concern that he spent a lot of time talking about Coag when it was pretty obvious that Coag was not a popular lynch target. He could have been using this tunnel as an easy way to appear to be participating as scum. It does bother me that he was content to sit on Coag and for much of D1 even when there is no support at all for a Coag lynch. This is IMO your strongest point against him. accusation concerning his post where he votes GreyMist I agree it is a bit suspicious how he just sheeps onto the GreyMist wagon and doesn't show a lot of interest in the lynch. However, it is also possible that he was genuinely busy, and he was certainly not the only one to show disinterest in the lynch. In conclusion, I am pretty neutral on TPS. I could see him as either alignment. I am therefore not interested in lynching him on the evidence thus far. | ||
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On March 19 2013 16:21 WaveofShadow wrote: I agree with this. Scib, thoughts on your scumlist now that you're not dead? I formed reads based off of everyone's D1 filter. Here is my reasoning in brief behind each name on my scumlist: geript:+ Show Spoiler + I took minor issue with his very start of the game. My major issue with geript was this sequence of events: geript: Zarepath is SCUM geript: Please vote for zarepath. Let's lynch him. geript: Hmm actually I think I'd feel better about a GM lynch. geript: You are fucktarded if you think zarepath is a better lynch than GM. geript: You should obviously give zarepath another day to prove his innocence. geript: No actually I'm changing my vote to zarepath because of some minor evidence DYH gave, even though the lynch is in an hour and it's 100% decided Obviously I am paraphrasing, and I left out some details of the story, but that is the general gist, and I see a fishy inconsistency regarding his stance on Zarepath. WoS:+ Show Spoiler + Says nothing important for a good portion of D1. Just blends in a lot. Says TPS/Vivax compelling but ends up null, and then hops on bad DP wagon. Helped get GreyMist lynched. I really don't see the sarcasm about DP super active N1, will have to read closer BH:+ Show Spoiler + I already posted my notes on BH and I recently made another post about him. See those for thoughts. glurio:+ Show Spoiler + super blendy D1; hardly any original opinions puts a useless vote on sandroba sheeps VE onto bad DP wagon shows not much interest in who actually gets lynched overall does just about the bare minimum you can do D1 and still claim you played the game zarapeth:+ Show Spoiler + I think I've covered this enough. trancestorm:+ Show Spoiler + enters the thread by responding to some relatively pointless comment and discouraging scumhunting.. hardly does anything D1 says he has no reservations about a zarepath lynch but does not consolidate instead leaves his vote uselessly on DYH cosmicomics:+ Show Spoiler + is a smurf who does nothing enters thread by asking one unimportant question and then leaves for three hours sheeps a bad case on DP then leaves thread for 23 hours bizzarely unvotes DP for seemingly no reason <-- need to look into this more suspicious timing of vote on GreyMist another one who barely played the game D1 Unfortunately, it is now 8AM here so I really must go to bed. I am determined to lynch scum today, and will be hard at work when I wake up tomorrow. Good night. | ||
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In response to your remark about BH, knowing that someone is blue or scum is significant. For example if you have a claimed detective on D1, who claims to be able to get a guaranteed 1 check per day, then you would be a fool to lynch him. Obviously BH's claim is less powerful, but the principle is the same. If he is blue, he becomes more valuable the longer he is alive. And if he is scum, it becomes more obvious the longer he is alive. In response to your first question about TPS, yes I examined TPS's filter and the case against TPS made by BH and came up neutral on TPS for reasons I have explained. In response to your second question about TPS, I think it is undeniable that TPS did not do much discussing of candidates like GK, Zarepath, DP, or GreyMist with the town. There are two explanations: 1. TPS is scum and intentionally chose not to discuss those candidates for fear it would give him away as scum. Therefore he parked his vote on Coag so he wouldn't have to discuss anyone else. 2. TPS is town and he genuinely wanted to lynch Coag. He was too lazy and/or did not have enough time to discuss other lynch candidates with town. I think both explanations are plausible. As to who I want to lynch today, I really wish I knew. Right this second, I feel like cosmicomics is a promising candidate. I think it's rather odd how he unvoted DP for seemingly no reason. I plan to look into this more tomorrow. Also, I still think zarepath is an option. Do you have any snide other questions for me before I go to sleep? | ||
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@Kitaman I believe you are referring to DYH doing some meta research on Zerapath. And he did indeed follow up on it. Just filter DYH @Mocsta While filtering you I found this. On March 19 2013 17:08 Mocsta wrote: Indulge me.. why are guys like Coagulation being allowed to fly under the radar? I'm actually leaning town on Coag. Hence, no need to bring him up. And I suspect the rest of the thread lives in terror of having their head bitten off if they dare try to make a read on him. Anyway, if you've played with Coag before, what say you to this: On March 18 2013 17:34 sciberbia wrote: - Coag hopped on the DP bandwaggon in the voting thread despite never mentioning him in his filter. Is this normal Coag behavior? Too scummy to be scum? | ||
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I agree with the general sentiment that lynching either BH or VE is dumb today as a matter of general strategy. There is no really strong evidence that either of them is scum. I don't think they should be lynch candidates. I don't feel that great about a zarepath lynch. I've looked a little more into cosmicomics since last night and I think there's a decent chance he's scum. I'll return to him if I'm disappointed by my conclusion on WoS. On first read, I like the kitaman case on WoS. I was already suspicious of WoS as I noted earlier today. I plan to have a good long look at everything WoS-related this game, and hopefully be able to conclude that WoS is the scum lynch we need today. So that's where I'm at. @WoS If you are town, I request that play to win the game. | ||
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On March 20 2013 12:02 Coagulation wrote: sciberbia I have no idea who you are I dont even remember you being in this game your very under the radar. lets pretend that theres not a giant line to take a shit on WOS and hes not thrashing around like an idiot asking for it. Who would you vote if he wasnt an option? cosmicomics | ||
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On March 20 2013 12:55 Mocsta wrote: Sci.. the above is interesting.. so far the only case I noticed on VE is from DarthPunk. Henceforth, the corollary is that the DP case on VE is rubbish (i..e not really strong) Lets get context here: DP is a strong player.. after all DP does have the highest win ratio on the TL Database. And has had scum and town games that have all resulted in the same outcome.. victory With that context: Do you expect more substance from a town DP? If the case is "not strong' as you suggest, what impact does this have on your DP read? My thoughts on DP's case on VE and its influence of my read on DP (or lack thereof) + Show Spoiler + First of all, not really strong =/= rubbish I would describe his case as quite reasonable, but not as strong as he seemed to think it was. I think DarthPunk made some valid points about VE. Here are some things I agree with and think are more indicative of a scum agenda than a townie agenda: - VE made a bad case on DarthPunk - VE severely downplayed the popularity of 'pressure voting' among townies on TL - VE oddly lost interest in DP as a D1 lynch candidate and did not really explain why DP seems to have felt that this paints VE as extremely likely scum. I don't think this evidence is as strong as DP seems to think it is. From what I know of VE, he seems capable of this behavior as town. So DP clearly holds VE to a much higher standard than I do. Maybe DP is town and just wrong to hold him to such a high standard. Maybe I am wrong to not hold him to a higher standard. Who knows? Despite his supposedly impressive win percentage, neither of us is the be-all end-all jesus of scumhunting. And even the best of townies make incorrect conclusions all the time. So I'm not going to have a scumread on DP just because I disagree with him on the strength of one of his cases. My thoughts on the fact that he "delurked" to jump on the WoS wagon + Show Spoiler + I have no reason to believe that he was intentionally lurking and opportunistically jumped on the WoS wagon. I don't assume that people are intentionally lurking whenever they are not posting. That's just paranoid and silly. Also, I have significant suspicions of WoS and I thought the kita case was good. So it is not alarming for me that he sheeped it. my read on DP + Show Spoiler + I still think that he is town for reasons I have already said: - first post on geript draws attention to himself - interacted consistently with thread while under threat of bandwaggon - seemed like he genuinely wanted to get VE lynched - also, I really liked how he responded to the cases against him. IMO, the cases were just bad. And his response was "These cases totally suck. You guys must be scum for spouting this garbage" which is a response typical of an indignant townie The only thing I don't like in his filter is that he goes from VE is 100% scum to fine let's not lynch VE when VE claimed a hit. I mean, if VE was actually 100% scum then DP should be 100% sure that VE is lying so the blue claim should be nothing to DP so DP should still want to lynch VE. However, I think there is an obvious and plausible explanation in that DP simply overstated his confidence on the VE case in order to attract attention to it. @Mocsta I am quite puzzled by your line of questioning here, as I have said several times in the thread now that I think the DP wagon was bad, and I think DP is town. | ||
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Also, the fact that DP did not already know and therefore point out to you that I think he is town is comforting. I'm quite seriously thinking town on DP and I don't think you'd be able to change my mind. But if you feel that strongly, feel free to make a case. | ||
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I really think this line of questioning is going nowhere. Off the top of my head, I can think of 5 times I have already said that I think the DP wagon is bad and that DP is town. If DP is in fact scum and does in fact care very much what I think about him, he would almost certainly have noticed this in my filter, and not been alarmed when you asked for my opinion. | ||
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Anyway, unless you have anything else for me Mocsta, I am going to resume looking over WoS. | ||
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In the meantime, I would like to get some thoughts on this IMO suspicious back-and-forth between two of my top suspects: WoS and cosmicomics. Read carefully. I think it is evidence against both of them individually, and would make even more sense if both are scum. On March 18 2013 19:32 glurio wrote: (paraphrased) 1. It is dumb to go after people on the DP wagon 2. WoS had bad reasoning for voting GreyMist over Zarepath On March 18 2013 22:54 WaveofShadow wrote: Also glurio, you're still a newbie in my eyes so maybe I can excuse your immediate contradiction within your post. You imply that it's dumb that people are going for those who originally voted DP (namely, you) and group me along with you, and then IN THE SAME FUCKING POST you accuse me of shit WHEN WE'RE IN THE SAME BOAT? Is this really the town I'm going to have to put up with this game? REALLY? On March 18 2013 23:17 WaveofShadow wrote: lol. LOL. You stuck to your read when you sheep voted him with no fucking reason?? Wow, glurio. Not to mention switched a vote onto him from Sandroba whom you ALSO had barely any reason to vote in the first place. 'Pressure.....right.' As for my defense, this is I'll I'm going to give you because you honestly aren't even worth my time. ... You haven't posted anything useful at all yet, you're sheeping just as much as you accuse me of doing but you haven't posted any real reads with proper backup or pushed anything (aside from me right now because it's the new cool thing to do). But please, by all means keep it coming and tunnel me instead of hunting for real scum. It's not like this is a distraction or anything from the real point of the game. On March 19 2013 01:24 cosmicomics wrote: WaveofShadow, where are you getting your townish read on glurio? On March 19 2013 01:58 WaveofShadow wrote: This is essentially how glurio has played every game. His reads are bad and he doesn't add much to a scumhunt. Every once in a while he'll actually attempt to put pressure on something but it doesn't amount to anything. He's a little lurkier than he was in LX and isn't putting as MUCH effort in so ima paint him null leaning town right now purely based on meta, but we'll see how the night/day pans out. On March 19 2013 02:02 WaveofShadow wrote: On that note, Vivax are you really sure glurio is scum? You should know what his game is like from LX; you don't think he was just sheeping badly? Does this feel rather fishy to anyone else? I will recap: -- Glurio posts accusation of WoS -- WoS posts a defense in which he paints glurio in a scummy light -- CC comes out of nowhere (no posts within 8 hours of this in either direction) to ask why WoS has a town read on glurio, even though anyone casually reading those posts would almost certainly not pick up on this. -- WoS gives some meh reasoning for a nullish read on glurio despite his recent extreme agitation with him I think this is fishy because: cosmic had never talked about WoS or glurio previously, yet while he is online, the only thing he comments on is WoS's town read on glurio. WoS seems to be painting glurio in a scummy light despite supposedly leaning town on him. He does this again later where he says he thinks my list looks like I'm scum trying to pick out easy targets, but then it turns out he has a town read on me. I don't think townies are likely to spend time making the thread see their own null/town reads as scummy. DP/Mocsta/ whoever is online, I'd like some unbiased opinions here. Am I reading too much into this? | ||
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On March 20 2013 16:34 DarthPunk wrote: Hmmm. That is really solid. And you picked up on some stuff I completely missed. I'm very happy you think so. I have other stuff to share about WoS too. Taking a quick food break though. | ||
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On March 20 2013 16:34 Mocsta wrote: Wow Geript.. I wrote this whole post and said fuck it. im not gonna be lazy, I will read 6 pages of WoS. It changed everything. You are right. Kita case still stands. I was wrong. this fucker did not do anything until the Kita case (which is the only stuff I read when WoS asked me to look @ his filter my derp) I was under the impression he had pushed Mr.Wiggles all of Day 1.. obviously wrong. I dindt realise the majority of his filter came from late Night1/early Day 2. And also that the majority of his filter is just talking shit. There is not a clear agenda. I need to read WoS defense of Kita case one more time, because I wasnt satisfied the first time around; but was giving undue credit for pushing a case Day1. For your reference, the below is the post i was about to make before reading WoS filter. + Show Spoiler + (1) "Balls" Now for what you raised: I didnt unvote WoS because he turned the balls factor on... that would be invalid (cos i gave him a way out).. The way it went down: I skipped to the most recent page, saw that limp post of him and was like WTF, WoS doesnt play like that and made my meta validation vote post. It was that simple. I think its pretty obvious when i voted him, it was with intention to lynch. He then identified to me, that he had "balls" before the meta case. As such, the meta case post in my opinion became his saving grace. (2) Why lynch push is important I know you love poker. so let me me analogous to that. Pros expect a certain level of play, and can actually struggle against newbies, because they dont understand/conform to the "rules' of the game and make unpredicatable/stupid plays. I believe that was the basis of kitaman case on WoS. Those tells on someone like DP would indeed be the nail in the coffin. Unfortunately I dont find them as strong on newbies, because typically they are not as aware of what constitutes good play; or the ramifications of their own play. Hence why I said, Kita case points are indeed valid scum tells; but to me only point to a scum WoS if he hasnt pushed a lynch candidate hard. (That would be the turning point for me to consider the tells as scum, and not newbie town being unaware/stupid). (3) Is the case invalid - i.e. did WoS push anyone hard I need to do a proper read of his filter, instead of just a couple pages. Based on Day2 play, I thought he pushed ppl; hence my retraction of vote. Based on Day1 play, I havent read it (yet.. planning to tonight) If WoS indeed only discussed "Im not familiar to know these meta reads" and didnt push a lynch vote, then I would give serious consideration to Kita case, and most likely lead to a vote on WoS. Unfortunately, I am making a leap of faith currently that the targets WoS pushed today (i.e. Mr.Wiggles etc) are the same ppl from Day1. If that is the situation at hand, then I think Kita case is invalid in full. err no he didn't push any agenda D1. I was going to point this out too: In fact as of N1 Wiggles was one of his "strongest town reads". By early D2, Wiggles was the scummiest person in the thread to WoS. The conversion does not look convincing to me. Look into this as well as my post above and tell me what you think. | ||
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On March 20 2013 16:25 sciberbia wrote: WoS seems to be painting glurio in a scummy light despite supposedly leaning town on him. He does this again later where he says he thinks my list looks like I'm scum trying to pick out easy targets, but then it turns out he has a town read on me. I don't think townies are likely to spend time making the thread see their own null/town reads as scummy. I feel like I should provide quotes for reference here: On March 19 2013 16:02 WaveofShadow wrote: Aside from BH, I see a common theme in your scum list, that is, players who either have barely contributed or could be seen as newbies. I don't like it, and not just because I'm included. On March 19 2013 16:16 WaveofShadow wrote: More so than me and most of the other 'newbies' named on his list, Mocsta. The list just looks to me like he's looking for easy scumreads to throw out there with minimal chance of being called out if he's wrong because they're either new/bad or lurky. And then later. On March 20 2013 12:41 WaveofShadow wrote: Scib: I read you as town. You've been sticking to your reads (a few too many lists for my liking but whatever) and I especially like that you've been attempting to keep zare in the spotlight, who also looks incredibly scummy to me and has for most of the game. Bring the aforementioned case against me if you must; I'll do my best to shut it down along with the rest, sigh. Like what as the point of trying to convince people that ONE of my posts is scummy if he overall has a town read on me? It doesn't seem townie-motivated. | ||
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On March 20 2013 16:48 geript wrote: @Scib. I don't think so. The two strangest things about it to me are: 1. The "Is this the town I'm going to have to put up with?" comment. It looks like he's internally distanced himself from the town. I want to look at the context and timing of this. 2. WoS giving a town leaning read on Glurio based on meta despite the fact that at multiple points he's said that he's not good at meta reads and doesn't put too much stock in meta reads (or similar comments IIRC). Either way, I'm done studying for tonight and need some sleep. I'm going to be back after my exams to reread ~8-10 hours prior to lynch and post some more comments then. @geript What is the "I don't think so" in response to? | ||
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you have 4 names on the Wiggles wagon but the votecount shows only 3 | ||
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@Mocsta Thanks a lot for that last post. I was going to request that somebody do that. I will just say everything that hasn't already been said in this post. To anyone reading this, please filter me for a few other reasons I think WoS is scum. I encourage everyone to thoroughly read at the very least, kita's case, and the last couple pages of discussion about WoS. His 180 on Wiggles in not convincing + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + On March 19 2013 11:00 WaveofShadow wrote: Strike 100 zare. Mr. Wiggles is probably one of my strongest townreads at the moment. His analysis is actually quite strong and he is not afraid to go against popular opinion (he shut down VE's read on DP just as it was gaining traction amongst the town), risking being seen as soft defending a scumbuddy. He stuck with his reads on GK and GM throughout the day, if you read his posts, with his opinions changing slightly as more information cropped up. This post of yours on the other hand is just a summary of Mr. Wriggle's filter with a weak case against him at the end; which you assume to be scummy when in fact he read correctly into GreYMist's lack of caring. He did call him scummy in the end but I would argue is unapologetic about it; much like my tunneling of geript last game he points out the GM put us in a bad position essentially looking really scummy during the day and his lack of attendance and giving up with regards to his lynch forced the town's hand. Looking mroe into your recent posts: This is what makes me really think you're scum. In NMM 37 this was not your style of play at all even when you weren't around. You would pop in from time to time and take strong stances and PUSH your reads rather than sit back (aside from the fake case on me at the start). You've played in enough games to know better than this; hell it would have been better for you to lurk than to do what you're doing, you'd draw less attention to yourself. So during N1, WoS made the above post where he said Wiggles was probably one of his strongest town reads. Not only this, but he gave some explicit reasoning such as "strong analysis", "stuck with reads", and "not afraid". Then at 09:45 TL time on D2, WoS votes Wiggles. This is less than 24 hours from when Wiggles was one of his strongest town reads. Wiggles made five reasonably sized posts in between. WoS's justification for voting Wiggles was that 'he just didn't seem to give a shit'. Also keep in mind that the Wiggles wagon looked like it might roll into a lynch at this point. Now ask yourself if this really seems like a townie. He went from "probably one of strongest townreads" to "im hopping on the wiggles weapon" over the course of 22 hours during which Wiggles made 5 reasonable posts. And the justification was that "Wiggles didn't seem to give a shit". I don't buy it. WoS piles suspicion on zarepath for D2 but doesn't push the lynch + Show Spoiler + See these posts from WoS during N1 and D2 concerning zarepath: + Show Spoiler + On March 18 2013 23:35 WaveofShadow wrote: What? Why? Zare you REALLY have to start giving more than that to alleviate suspicion. I don't see how mis-speculating on roles is anything but null. On March 19 2013 11:00 WaveofShadow wrote: Strike 100 zare. Mr. Wiggles is probably one of my strongest townreads at the moment. ... This is what makes me really think you're scum. In NMM 37 this was not your style of play at all even when you weren't around. You would pop in from time to time and take strong stances and PUSH your reads rather than sit back (aside from the fake case on me at the start). You've played in enough games to know better than this; hell it would have been better for you to lurk than to do what you're doing, you'd draw less attention to yourself. On March 19 2013 11:09 WaveofShadow wrote: You read his most recent cases, then read this: The rest of his filter that game is constant questioning of other with regards to his reads, and some list posts yes, but without fluff; he actually takes a stand in many of these. + Show Spoiler + On February 14 2013 04:10 zarepath wrote: Zarepath's Reads by Zarepath 9-Bit + Show Spoiler + Nothing to see. Looking forward to a modkill or replacement. Sevryn + Show Spoiler + I had a null read on him at the lynch -- he jumped on my fake case, added a little to it, tunneled glurio. But post-flip, he went very proactively defensive for it, saying that everybody was too focused on glurio/himself as the dichotomy. But HE was focused on glurio. Now that glurio's flipped, I want to see what his reads are on EVERYONE. If he was so certain about glurio, who does he think is scum now? Slight scum read on Sevryn. WaveofShadow + Show Spoiler + I see him as being mostly proactive with a variety of reads. I don't understand what his big controversial post quoting Mocsta and Sn0_Man was about, other than the fact they wanted to go after lurkers and their plan failed. I read him as genuinely trying to help town. Sn0_Man + Show Spoiler + His filter's filled with a lot of theory, policy, and meta talk. He interacts directly with a lot of other posters, and is very active. But towards the end of Day 1, he was practically begging other people to make cases he could bandwagon onto, finally settling on Sevryn. He is active enough that I don't consider him scummy, but trudging through his filter doesn't make me think he's absolutely pro-town. Leaning town, but not as sure as I used to be. ObviousOne + Show Spoiler + His assessment of Day 1 was pretty useful. I agree with Mocsta that we need to see his reads. Null, slightly to town based on his opening, but only slightly. Warbaby + Show Spoiler + Starts with general policy talk, his third post is a list, needlessly antagonistic to WoS, bunch of meta, insults everybody's mafia skills, tells people to mislynch him, prefers voting lurkers over scum, constantly asserts that he has no idea who the scum are, his final top 3 are sylencia, sevryn, then glurio. Is now focused on sevryn. I don't think he's as scummy as I've thought of him now that I've read thorugh the whole filter; I have a null read on him now, depending on how his case on Sevryn develops. geript + Show Spoiler + Geript was one of the only ones who really dug into my fake WoS case. He bought it, but only after he went through it and actually criticized a few of the points. He now has a case on Corazon that is at least original, and it's labeled Case 1, suggesting he has another case coming. I read him as leaning town. Mocsta + Show Spoiler + Super active first half of Day 1, went to "actively lurking" since after pouting about knowing when he's not wanted, and has done a lot of things that I see as pro-town -- encouraging two names so we can have clear bandwagons, picking apart bad logic, etc. I read him as town. The only other thing I'll note is that it's odd how little he's contributed (although he still has tons of filter). I think he's legit going for a different strat, but will keep an eye on him, obviously. Corazon + Show Spoiler + His Day 1 seemed pretty typical of his town meta, but he really pushed on his WB vote but didn't actively try to persuade anyone else; he just kept re-quoting his case, and then when the lynch was getting confusing, instead of asking for consolidation onto his TOP READ that he's had all day, instead he bandwagons onto Glurio. It's hard to judge any voting motivations from the Day 1 lynch, but this is suspicious to me. He gave a pretty town response to my WoS case, though. Null, leaning town. Mandalor + Show Spoiler + Mandalor's filter looks very scummy. Every other post is a list, the main thrust of his case on Sylencia has to do with blue talk, and the case for his final vote is not compelling at all. He just drops a random vote and checks out, doesn't even wish town luck. (To be fair, I did something similar because of time and RL constraints.) People's reactions to my vote on Mandalor were that they had town reads on him, but I'd like to ask you all what specifically makes him look town to you, because I don't see much. Reads SCUM Sylencia + Show Spoiler + Pretty vocal opponent of RNG there at the beginning, then his activity fades from there. He speculates HARD on warbaby's possible blue roles, not necessarily a very pro-town thing to do in public on Day 1, and that is the biggest contribution he made at all. He said he hadn't read very many filters, admitted to tunneling warbaby, then voted for him. In the end, he posted this gem: On February 13 2013 09:54 Sylencia wrote: .. What lol, I gave my reasons before and I'm voting for him to consolidate my thoughts on him. I will have to change my vote to glurio if required to stay alive though. Town don't change their votes in order to stay alive; town believe in their scum reads or are willing to work with other people's scum reads. THey certianly don't do so just to stay alive; lynching scum is more important than a town's individual life. This quote makes it sound as though his number one concern is not being lynched. It's worth going through all the filters, apparently, because this was the last post in the final filter, and I think it's the biggest, latest scum tell. In conclusion, people I think are suspicious and would like other's thoughts on: Sevryn Warbaby Mandalor Sylencia Obv and 9-Bit's replacement also deserve scrutiny. But right now my two biggest reads are Sylencia and Mandalor. I think people should look at my brief reads on them, read their filters, and I want to hear your own conclusions. On March 19 2013 15:52 WaveofShadow wrote: Keir you make a good point, but then if anything that points to zarepath being scummy rather than someone you don't want to focus on D2.... On March 19 2013 16:15 WaveofShadow wrote: After a quick read-through of his (TPS) filter I don't find anything nearly as damning as you seem to find about him, BH. I'd certainly like to see some more solid reads from him during the day though, as there won't be any excusing a second day of the bare minimum of contribution. I'm interested to hear his thoughts on zare and whether he's changed his mind since reading him as scummy earlier in the day (without committing...) On March 19 2013 16:25 WaveofShadow wrote: Anyway it's late as all fuck right now and I have to go to bed. I fully plan on dedicating today to closing the book on zare one way or another as the town seems to be relatively polarized regarding whether they think he's town or scum. I expect some more posting from him so we'll be able to look into it. I also have to delve into some more filters and re-read a little because I feel like I have too many town-reads and not enough scum. Night all. On March 20 2013 04:59 WaveofShadow wrote: How exactly would it HELP town? This looks REAL scummy zare. On March 20 2013 04:59 WaveofShadow wrote: How exactly would it HELP town? This looks REAL scummy zare. WoS is ALL OVER zarepath throughout this timespan. But he doesn't do anything about it. I would expect a townie to be like: "Listen up bitches. Zarepath is scum. Lynch him. ##Vote: Zarepath" But instead WoS is all like: "Zarepath you so scummy. LOL Zarepath acting scummy again. Can you gus believe this? soo.... someone's gonna start a wagon for me to jump on right?" Not only does he NOT start a wagon on zarepath, but he puts his vote on Wiggles as discussed above. This seems extremely inconsistent to me with his posts throughout N1. Also note, how he is often talking to zarepath about zarepath's scumminess, instead of addressing the rest of the thread. This is further evidence that he just wanted to make zarepath look scummy without actually being the one to push his lynch. WoS uses fear-tactics to scare people off his wagon + Show Spoiler + One last minor thing I want to mention because I feel like it almost worked. By the time I finished studying his filter, I was a bit nervous myself to announce I was suspicious of him because the thread seemed to have turned into a witchhunt for people on the WoS wagon as if for some god-ordained reason being on the WoS wagon is scummy. To be fair, I think that this was not solely due to WoS, but also people like Mocsta (not sure if maliciously). But I think it is worth mentioning anyway. WoS admitted the kita case was good, but he attacked everyone that sheeped onto his wagon and talked about how there were probably several scum on his wagon. I will be in the thread to push this lynch tomorrow if necessary. Would be happy to discuss anything. Could talk about even more stuff I find suspicious in WoS's filter if you guys really need persuading. ##Vote: WaveofShadow | ||
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On March 20 2013 17:36 DarthPunk wrote: Yeah. I reckon I could lynch him. The main thing though is that he was very co-operative under pressure when I spoke with him rationally and then he did a reasonably good job of assessing the Kita case objectively. I don't know. How do you guys feel about his large analysis of kita's post? tbh I didn't pay it much attention. It looked like he just summarized/quoted what kita said and agreed with bits and pieces of it, and explained some things that were going through his mind when he made some of those posts, such as things he heard in past games. It looked pretty alignment-null to me. I think scum is certainly capable of writing that post. | ||
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On March 20 2013 18:05 Mocsta wrote: It wasn`t malicious sciberbia. But yes. I shared responsibility for the witch hunt. For the record I have thumbed through your filter once and I don't have any strong feelings on your alignment. It wasn't meant to be a jab at you. + Show Spoiler + Maybe should have left that point about the "witch-hunt" out entirely since I think the other ones are stronger anyway. Anyway, I'm officially done working for the night. Will be in the thread a little longer but I expect to doze off pretty soon. I'm pretty happy with the state of D2 and am really optimistic about a scum lynch. | ||
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The line in BH's first post about not wanting to let GK get mislynched stuck out to me as well. It doesn't seem like there was ever any doubt in BH's mind that GK is town. I think this is a bit suspicious because I feel like I would be second-guessing myself if I were town in his position, what with the rest of the thread demanding GK's blood and all. I feel like the relationship between BH and GK is more like that of teacher-apprentice than peer-peer so mostly passive agreement with a little insight here or there is about what I'd expect regardless of GK's alignment. I don't feel like the logs say a whole lot about GK's alignment. As to Ace, I'd obviously prefer that he post more, but we can't do anything about it. If at some point we run out of scummy candidates and Ace is still alive and hasn't done shit then we should lynch him at that time. | ||
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I think the Mirror is probably a third party. Did you read the OP? On March 09 2013 07:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote: It is possible that your win condition will change at some point during the game. If this event would infuriate you, do not sign up. Measures have been taken to make sure that if this happens, your play should not have to change very much. Try to see it as a new challenge. It would be in your best interest to PM me questions whenever you have them, no matter how trivial they may seem. Anyway, I too think that VE is a bad lynch today. See my next post. | ||
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on WoS His blueclaim does not affect my opinion on his alignment. I still think he is pretty likely to be scum, but I am willing to wait to see if he is still alive tomorrow, which I think he will be. on TPS He doesn't seem to be a lynch candidate anymore. So the lynch is in 6 hours and we need to lynch someone Current popular candidates seem to be VE, BH, and Wiggles. on VE I don't think lynching VE is a good idea. Let's look at the most important facts here. He is a claimed vet who supposedly took a hit last night, and we only have 1 shot accounted for by Keirathi's death, when the prevailing opinion is that scum have 2KP. Furthermore, he outed the Mirror to the thread, which seems like a very silly move if he is scum. So was VE a veteran? Yes it seems likely. Now, if VE was attempting to get converted, clearly he would not have posted the logs in the thread. VE isn't mentally retarded and I don't see why he would try to lose the game. Even if VE is scum, posting those logs is a terrible strategy IMO. Just because VE said the words "I accept" clearly doesn't mean he was actually converted. I expect he would have to PM the host or something. So the logical conclusion is that VE did not think he would be joining the Mirror. So it seems silly to speculate "well... maybe he will be forced to join the Mirror". Furthermore, we don't even know for a fact that the Mirror is a threat to us. In fact, judging from the chat logs where the Mirror says VE should just play "townie" and that will hardly conflict with the mirror's objective, I think there's a good chance that the Mirror is not a huge threat to us. So lynching VE for the purpose of trying to damage some 3rd party seems silly to me. In conclusion, lynching VE does not make a lot of sense to me. I think he is most likely a veteran, and that he may or may not be in the process of getting recruited to some third party which may or may not be a threat to us. on BH BH seems more likely to be mafia than VE. Nevertheless, he is a claimed blue and I'm not particularly keen on lynching him today. In conclusion, asdfjerp. Part of me wants to lynch WoS because I think he gives us the best shot of hitting scum today. I think cosmicomics is decently likely to be scum. I suppose I could tolerate a Wiggles lynch, although I don't think he has the greatest chance of flipping scum. Can somebody explain to me why there are so many votes on VE? Do you guys all think he is scum or third party or are you just voting him to resolve this mess? | ||
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On March 21 2013 10:52 DoYouHas wrote: If I am wrong and The Mirror is a 3rd party recruitment role that requires people to go against their wincon in order to be recruited, then my problem is with DrH, because that just sounds absurd to me. I agree there is something 'off' with that game mechanic. I am no expert on Dr H or game creation and I have not listened to this podcast, but it doesn't seem outside the realm of possibilities. Dr H did say there were 1 or 2 things out of the ordinary. Couple other things to note. 1. The Mirror seemed to imply that VE was already converted and that the hosts were just late in notifying. Maybe it is a press-ganged type of thing idk. 2. Nobody else seems to have noticed this but it looks significant to me On March 21 2013 01:20 VisceraEyes wrote: If you are town, you have quite the powerful role. But dare I muse, it cannot be without limit? To you I offer an impregnable shield, one who will not falter during the night. Hide behind he and you can gain for yourself immortality. If you are scum, then you will play the part of the double agent. Use your former teammates at your disposal. Manipulate the scum team to your own devices? To be numbered among the greats such as Keyser Söze, Mr. Orange, William "Billy" Costigan, Jr. or Staff Sgt. Colin Sullivan. Perhaps, to live out the dream that could have been Bureaucracy? Of course if you are neither, you already know my purposes, and that you are but a step behind. Pressure me, threaten me, do as you wish, for I know it is all but a meaningless bluff. What is this neither town nor scum nor mirror-aligned role that the mirror refers to? I remember from some casual real-time games I played on some website there was a town-aligned role that was able to combat third-party cultists and prevent people from getting converted. Maybe we have one of those who would be capable of saving VE? This isn't really relevant to the lynch discussion but seems important. | ||
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just realized that this mystery role cannot be town-aligned based on what the mirror says. Is there like a 4th party as well? | ||
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On March 21 2013 11:08 WaveofShadow wrote: And scib did you not read the thread? You REALLY think my claim is fake? K. Mocsta, shut up about glurio, he's useless and yes he's scummy we can lynch him after we figure out the rest of this clusterfuck we call a game. Are we seriously talking about lynching Coag now too? Good lord. I have read every page of the thread at least once, and I do in fact have major doubts about your claim, as I just said. Maybe I'm wrong though. We'll see D3 I guess. | ||
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I don't think VE is scum. I think VE might be third party (either now or by tonight). I don't know if said third party is worth our time disposing of. Hence I don't like voting for VE. Wiggles I don't think Wiggles is all that likely to be scum. I've just been over his filter and there's nothing that says scum to me. Hence I don't think Wiggles should be the lynch. GK I don't have any strong feelings about GK. I think DP is town and smart so I would be willing to trust his meta-read on GK if that is the only option besides Wiggles and VE. cosmicomics But what do you guys think about making this a cosmicomics lynch? I think we can all agree he is: - reasonably likely to be scum - lurky - does not show any indication of ever contributing more I would be happy to write up a case and vote cosmicomics if you guys would be receptive. | ||
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On March 21 2013 11:43 Vivax wrote: Wait what I posted an extensive case against GK much much earlier and "He's useless D2" suddenly convinces some people to look into him? This makes me really really sad. I'm glad however that people are noticing what's up. hmm I don't remember this case. Sorry lol. I think I was more interested in your zarepath and cosmicomics cases. WIll go back and look at it now. | ||
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On March 21 2013 11:54 RyuSuzaku wrote: This line of thinking is really stupid. Assuming you are town, you will optimally lynch ANY confirmed or highly probable non-town player immediately. This is not a kingmaker scenario (in which case it would not matter who you lynched anyway). Our goal is to kill all non-town. Do not make assumptions about the setup. Not lynching VE despite thinking he is third party is simply antitown and goes against our wincondition. Our win condition is not to remove all non-town. It is to remove all threats to the town. On March 16 2013 15:24 DoctorHelvetica wrote: TO CLARIFY If you are green or blue your win condition is to remove all threats to the town, the same as it always is. You are the one making an assumption by assuming that the mirror is a threat to the town. I see no good evidence of this. For one thing, he does not seem to have KP. This is something that irks me about closed setups though. You can help your alignment to win by knowing what kinds of setups the host would be likely to make. I don't know anything about DrH but I see no in-thread evidence that the mirror is a threat to us. | ||
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On March 21 2013 12:07 WaveofShadow wrote: That was hours ago. I know I read him as town but FUCK. How in the hell are we ever going to win this game if we have townies like this guy?? You read him as town? | ||
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I did read the thread and I know you claim to have investigated TPS. Which is why it's odd to me that you bring him up as useless and say you "read" him as town when if you are a cop then you know for a fact he is town. Anyway, you are not the lynch today so I'm dropping this. I will read Wiggles's case and probably end up consolidating onto GK unless it is like the best case I've ever read. | ||
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Is ANYONE in the thread right now not at least leaning scum on cosmicomics? Look at how he goes about scum hunting D1: On March 17 2013 08:45 cosmicomics wrote: You can see in the nested quotes that geript drops RNG for setup spec "I thought I couldn't use it from what was said in pregame and the tarot stuff got me interested." and then moves into asking about a different topic "How do you feel about this being based on some sort of tarot stuff?" So DarthPunk is acting as if geript is still attempting his RNG stuff (he isn't) and trying to lynch him off that, and doesn't actually address him. How do you get so mad at someone you totally dismiss his posting so quickly? ##Vote: DarthPunk On March 18 2013 07:41 cosmicomics wrote: Sunday is busy day. Still catching up but addressing first things first. DarthPunk is caught lying and is trying to backpedal. My post specifically mentioned how geript had already stopped pursuing RNG material. Why would a town pressure vote to stop someone's "terrible idea" if they already stopped doing it in the very post they quoted? There was a slight possibility that DarthPunk was also trying to shut down geript's tarot card speculation, but in this post it is clear that it was not what he was doing. He himself admits that it was pressure to stop RNG. So there is absolutely no town reason why he would do this to geript. The only reason is to misinterpret geript as doing "terrible idea/plans", and try to mislynch him off that. ##Vote: DarthPunk On March 18 2013 10:07 cosmicomics wrote: So you admit that you yourself (innocently) misinterpreted geript's posts, and I'm scummy for thinking that you misinterpreted him? First of all, he doesn't do any scuhunting when he originally enters the thread. Then, we he was ASKED about DP, he sheeped onto an IMO shitty case and voted him. Respond to question and get your vote down. Two birds with 1 stone amirite. Then, he unvotes DP when the wagon loses steam with almost nonexistant reasoning for thinking DP isn't scum anymore: On March 18 2013 10:21 cosmicomics wrote: Yea I don't think DarthPunk is the lynch anymore. Just stubborn, but in a consistent townie way. Upon review VE's case does look pretty bad. ##Unvote: DarthPunk I'll be looking into the alternatives to decide. He was continually saying how DP was scum and lying about some stupid shit at the start of the game. But now suddenly DP is stubborn and townie. And VE's case wasn't even the reason CC was voting DP in the first place. VE posted his case after CC voted DP twice. On March 20 2013 13:47 cosmicomics wrote: WaveofShadow, could you tone down on the swearing please? It can turn people off (including townies), which will in turn fuel this bandwagon against you, and the worst kind of wagon is one where it is town pushed. I think it would be most beneficial to everyone if you could consolidate your posting and present your defense against kita's main case. Or build a strong case of your own on somebody. Because right now it is getting more difficult to read you and you are giving scum / good intentioned townies more fuel. I'll be looking over your meta, the case and the posts in interest in the meantime. This post scummy as mentioned by others. Finally, on D2, CC's big contribution was a massive case on VE. And VE has been the focus of discussion all day. But where is CC? Not here talking about. I pose my question again: Is anyone not at least leaning scum on CC I think that is a very important quality in a consolidation candidate. | ||
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VE (6): geript, TS893, Ace, CC, layabout, Ryu Ace (5): TranceStorm, GK, VE, DYH, Wiggles Wiggles (3): Coag, zarepath, kitaman GK (3): Vivax, DP, WoS TS893 (2): WF, Mocsta WoS (2): scib, TPS Mocsta (1): glurio vivax (1): kenpachi | ||
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Ace (6): TranceStorm, GK, VE, DYH, Wiggles, geript VE (5): TS893, Ace, CC, layabout, Ryu Wiggles (3): Coag, zarepath, kitaman GK (3): Vivax, DP, WoS TS893 (2): WF, Mocsta WoS (2): scib, TPS Mocsta (1): glurio vivax (1): kenpachi | ||
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On March 21 2013 14:45 TestSubject893 wrote: Let's say he was telling the truth at the time. There is still a huge possibility that he has since then been informed that he was in fact recruited. Posts like this one make me think that's the case: I really don't like the VE lynch. I think that VE is not scum. Also, I think lynching him on the basis that he MIGHT be part of a third party which MIGHT be against our win condition is paranoia. There are already 5-6 scum in this game with 2 KP / night. Are we really supposed to lynch all 5-6 of them AND the mirror AND whoever the mirror recruits each cycle? Seems absurd. I'm skeptical that the VE lynch is a good one EVEN ASSUMING that he is in fact somehow converted to third party. It seems like the only way to "beat" the third party is to lynch the mirror. And VE is clearly not the mirror + Show Spoiler + that would be a mindfuck though I would vote Ace or GK over VE. On Ace, the way I see it, he replaced into the game, did hardly anything for a full cycle, and demanded that we lynch VE for being likely third party, which is a sentiment that was and is shared by several other people. I don't think this is very damning evidence. I'm not a big fan of the Ace case. GK has been blending in for me ever since mid-D1. I don't have any strong feelings on his alignment but overall I just feel like he is more likely to be scum than either Ace or VE. ##Unvote: WaveofShadow ##Vote: goodkarma I will change my vote to Ace if necessary to prevent a VE lynch. | ||
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GK (5): Vivax, DP, WoS, Mocsta, scib VE (5): TS893, Ace, CC, layabout, Ryu Wiggles (3): Coag, zarepath, kitaman TS893 (1): WF Mocsta (1): glurio vivax (1): kenpachi | ||
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I think he was referring to nobody posting for 10 minutes. Hasn't happened in like 6 hours lol. | ||
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On March 21 2013 15:33 VisceraEyes wrote: There was 1KP N1 and I claimed a hit? What kind of evidence are you looking for? This. The biggest facts about VE all imply town 1. claimed vet and took hit and only 1 shot 2. outed WF when it would have made much more sense to shoot him if VE were scum 3. outed Mirror when it would make much more sense to keep quiet as scum | ||
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I think there is a decent chance VE will be 'converted' by tonight however. Also, does anyone wanna double-check my votecount? | ||
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funny how both mocsta and oats got this wrong.. conspiracy theories anyone? | ||
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I think it would be most fitting if he flips Mirror lol. | ||
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Adjective Suitable or appropriate under the circumstances; right or proper. | ||
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Dunno why everyone is so terrified of this mirror dude. | ||
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this blows. most exhausting day of mafia I can remember and we lynch another townie | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On March 31 2013 14:41 ThePeashooter wrote: Yeah I remembered reading that but couldn't find it anywhere. I sent a PM to DrH: Is it possible for this game to contain non-town entities that are not considered "threats to town" as specified by the town win condition? Or would that fall outside the realm of possibilities in a "Normal game"? Threats to town is meant to be taken as anyone who is not town aligned. I was going to include this in my deadline post but that was the night DrH ended night 5 minutes early :/ spiel about recruiter role that you will probably find uninteresting + Show Spoiler + I didn't follow a lot of the conversation about this third party recruiter role, but one thing that I really don't like about it is how the win condition of the mirror image works. The mirror image starts with either the town win condition or the mafia win condition. Then, in order for him to get converted, he must play against his original win condition. Once, he is converted, he essentially has two alternate win conditions, which makes mirror image quite an imba role. He essentially has two chances to win. I recommend that future hosts take things like this into consideration if you want to include a similar role in a future game. long spiel on closed setups that you will probably find uninteresting + Show Spoiler + On a side note, I don't like closed setups, "hidden" mechanics, or even to a lesser extent semi-open setups in general. Because it greatly benefits a player to be able to guess what kind of setups the host would be likely to make. For example, VE made the poor decision to out the mirror and not accept the conversion because VE had no information on the setup. In reality, he would have done much better to accept. But how was VE supposed to know this? He just had to guess. On the other hand, layabout made the good strategic decision to get converted. So did layabout "outplay" VE? Did layabout demonstrate that he is better at the game of mafia? In my opinion, no. He just correctly guessed that it would help him win if he accepted the conversion. "Closed" mechanics introduce a factor of "guess the setup" to mafia, which is otherwise very much a game of skill. I like setups like C9++, like 4of6, or like that of Nomination Mafia, or Hydra Mini Mafia. Where everybody knows EXACTLY how the setup was created. And it is not a matter of "guess what the host did". Speaking of which, if there's one thing I really hate about setups, its when hosts "balance" the teams. This is another case of "guess what the host is likely to do". Such as DrH giving GreyMist the nightmare role because GM requested it in his /in post. Anybody that knew DrH would be prone to do this is put at an advantage. And team balancing is unfair to newer players who do not know what teams the host would consider balanced. If hosts want to balance teams, then the only way to make it fair is to specify what teams would be considered balanced, and then redo the RNG until a "balanced" team is RNG'd. Something like "exactly 4 of VE, WF, kitaman, Palmar, marv, sandroba are town". But I would much prefer that teams are completely randomized. I think it would be fun to see Palmar, marv, bugs, and sandroba on a scumteam. It would make a nice change from the balancing that seems to me to be prevalent. Also, I think that 23+1 is much better than 24 hour nights. 24 hour nights is very messy. It requires everyone who wants to make a deadline post to wait until literally 5 seconds before the deadline and make their post, if they want to be sure that nobody else will read it before the deadline. And it requires that the host is EXACTLY on time with the day post. In theory, it could work. But in practice, it is unlikely to happen. I think 23+1 silent and the standard 23+1 action resolution are both good, and both have a slight flaw. 23+1 silent has the drawback that everyone with night actions has to be online an hour before the deadline, read all the deadline posts, and then decide if they want to change their night action. 23+1 action resolution has the drawback that night actions have to be submitted before deadline posts. This introduces a "randomizing" factor into NK decisions and other night action decisions. Not all the information is available to the people making the decisions. Mafia has to choose who to NK without knowing what final reads people will push etc. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On April 01 2013 03:18 iGrok wrote: 23+1 silent is no different than 24 from a player perspective. That's why GreY and I did that. Either the players have to be online at hour 23, or they have to be online at hour 24. What's the difference? 23+1 non-silent is terrible and should never be used, unless you were playing Last Will and Testament perhaps. 23 +1 silent removes the possibility of writing a last will that mafia cannot see before deciding their NK. So for any VT that just wants to give some "last reads" during the night, there is no obligation to be online at any particular time using 23 +1 silent. But under 24 hour night, it would benefit them to wait until the final seconds. So there is an obligation for them to be online at a particular time. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
On April 01 2013 03:40 Keirathi wrote: I don't understand? If the night was 23+1 silent, why wouldn't the townies just make their last will posts at 22.999 instead of the 23.999 they do on 24 hour nights? Scum still can't change their night actions in the 1 extra hour. Oh I guess I misunderstood. I thought 23 +1 silent meant actions can still be changed in the last hour. E: I think there is some merit to this because it removes the "race conditions" inherent in the 24 hour system. But yea if actions can't be changed then I guess it is essentially the same as 24 hour night, but just a bit easier on the host. | ||
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