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On March 27 2013 13:53 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 13:51 RyuSuzaku wrote:On March 27 2013 13:50 DarthPunk wrote:On March 27 2013 13:47 RyuSuzaku wrote:On March 27 2013 13:43 DarthPunk wrote:On March 27 2013 13:41 kitaman27 wrote:On March 27 2013 13:33 WaveofShadow wrote:
So a Dreamer?
Can you confirm that you die if cosmic does, because that's not what your last post makes it seem like. Their fake claims don't even line up. cosmic claims that when one of them dies, they both die. layabout claims that he was town, was converted to third party, and would be converted back to town if cosmic dies. generally Mafia fake claims do not have all the perceived inconsistencies that this claim has. This claim makes no sense for scum. It makes sense for third party. Do I think that they win with town. NO. But I believe that they realise that without their help town loses. So for the moment it is in our mutual interest to work together. this is scum logic. Who claims 3 hours before deadline to save themselves? Scum. Who paddles back and forth between calling someone scum and voting someone else to simply live? Scum. Scum most probably has found an opportunity to win with mislynching town today. If scum lynches town and there are still 2 KP left then we're in a very bad spot. The argument "do I believe X wins with town? No" Should ALWAYS be followed by "thus I want to lynch X," yet we see here that miraculously DP has somehow come to the conclusion that we should not lynch this nontown player. I don't believe DP is stupid enough as town to do this, so he must be scum. No. that is bullshit. there are situations were it is in the best interest for town to work with third party. namely, when town is in the shit. At the moment lynching 'not town' doesn't cut it. We need to lynch mafia. and if you were town you would understand that. false. At any point where town can win, the only time it doesn't matter who you side with is when you've already lost, aka kingmaker. In all other situations it's optimal to lynch CONFIRMED NONTOWN. You are not this stupid, and if you truly are then in postgame I will make sure everyone knows how much of a noob you are. Sorry dude, you're wrong this time. Mafia absolutely needs to die today BECAUSE THEY LOSE A KP. Now how exactly will you be proving that DP is a noob?
what the fuck are you talking about, we don't even know mafia counts.
1 mafia is dead, if mafia count is 5 and KP is rounded up then we need to kill TWO mafia to reduce KP.
Unless, of course, you know more than I do.
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On March 27 2013 13:56 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 13:54 RyuSuzaku wrote:On March 27 2013 13:53 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 27 2013 13:51 RyuSuzaku wrote:On March 27 2013 13:50 DarthPunk wrote:On March 27 2013 13:47 RyuSuzaku wrote:On March 27 2013 13:43 DarthPunk wrote:On March 27 2013 13:41 kitaman27 wrote:On March 27 2013 13:33 WaveofShadow wrote:
So a Dreamer?
Can you confirm that you die if cosmic does, because that's not what your last post makes it seem like. Their fake claims don't even line up. cosmic claims that when one of them dies, they both die. layabout claims that he was town, was converted to third party, and would be converted back to town if cosmic dies. generally Mafia fake claims do not have all the perceived inconsistencies that this claim has. This claim makes no sense for scum. It makes sense for third party. Do I think that they win with town. NO. But I believe that they realise that without their help town loses. So for the moment it is in our mutual interest to work together. this is scum logic. Who claims 3 hours before deadline to save themselves? Scum. Who paddles back and forth between calling someone scum and voting someone else to simply live? Scum. Scum most probably has found an opportunity to win with mislynching town today. If scum lynches town and there are still 2 KP left then we're in a very bad spot. The argument "do I believe X wins with town? No" Should ALWAYS be followed by "thus I want to lynch X," yet we see here that miraculously DP has somehow come to the conclusion that we should not lynch this nontown player. I don't believe DP is stupid enough as town to do this, so he must be scum. No. that is bullshit. there are situations were it is in the best interest for town to work with third party. namely, when town is in the shit. At the moment lynching 'not town' doesn't cut it. We need to lynch mafia. and if you were town you would understand that. false. At any point where town can win, the only time it doesn't matter who you side with is when you've already lost, aka kingmaker. In all other situations it's optimal to lynch CONFIRMED NONTOWN. You are not this stupid, and if you truly are then in postgame I will make sure everyone knows how much of a noob you are. Sorry dude, you're wrong this time. Mafia absolutely needs to die today BECAUSE THEY LOSE A KP. Now how exactly will you be proving that DP is a noob? what the fuck are you talking about, we don't even know mafia counts. 1 mafia is dead, if mafia count is 5 and KP is rounded up then we need to kill TWO mafia to reduce KP. Unless, of course, you know more than I do. no. because if that was the case we lost a kp night one for no reason.
LOL guess you're not reading the thread.
Remember when VE THE VET flipped last night? He claimed a shot night 1. Jesus.
There was 2 KP last night, and we can reasonably assume there was 2 KP on n2 given that 4 players died and we can trace that to TPS and probably Vivax.
Which means SCUM PROBABLY HAVE 2 KP.
Fucking christ if you are town this is mind numbing.
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On March 27 2013 13:59 WaveofShadow wrote:
Ryu, rounded down bro.
I've literally posted this like 3 times and people like you and Geript constantly seem to be ignoring it.
Use your brain.
so you're making an assumption about the setup, or you know more than I do.
Every normal I've ever played has been rounded up.
So, are you claiming scum?
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like really, this is truly embarrassing that we have to discuss this.
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On March 27 2013 14:01 WaveofShadow wrote:
Yes, I'm making an assumption about the setup. Where did the KP go night 1 if they had 3 to start?
How do we know they had 3 to start??!
They could have 4 members, they could have 5 members and double stacked keirathi, they could have a recruiter for all we know.
Same goes for the supposed missing roleblock. Making assumptions of the setup is a great way to lose the game even faster than we're losing already.
On March 27 2013 14:00 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 13:58 RyuSuzaku wrote:On March 27 2013 13:56 DarthPunk wrote:On March 27 2013 13:54 RyuSuzaku wrote:On March 27 2013 13:53 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 27 2013 13:51 RyuSuzaku wrote:On March 27 2013 13:50 DarthPunk wrote:On March 27 2013 13:47 RyuSuzaku wrote:On March 27 2013 13:43 DarthPunk wrote:On March 27 2013 13:41 kitaman27 wrote:
[quote]
Their fake claims don't even line up.
cosmic claims that when one of them dies, they both die.
layabout claims that he was town, was converted to third party, and would be converted back to town if cosmic dies. generally Mafia fake claims do not have all the perceived inconsistencies that this claim has. This claim makes no sense for scum. It makes sense for third party. Do I think that they win with town. NO. But I believe that they realise that without their help town loses. So for the moment it is in our mutual interest to work together. this is scum logic. Who claims 3 hours before deadline to save themselves? Scum. Who paddles back and forth between calling someone scum and voting someone else to simply live? Scum. Scum most probably has found an opportunity to win with mislynching town today. If scum lynches town and there are still 2 KP left then we're in a very bad spot. The argument "do I believe X wins with town? No" Should ALWAYS be followed by "thus I want to lynch X," yet we see here that miraculously DP has somehow come to the conclusion that we should not lynch this nontown player. I don't believe DP is stupid enough as town to do this, so he must be scum. No. that is bullshit. there are situations were it is in the best interest for town to work with third party. namely, when town is in the shit. At the moment lynching 'not town' doesn't cut it. We need to lynch mafia. and if you were town you would understand that. false. At any point where town can win, the only time it doesn't matter who you side with is when you've already lost, aka kingmaker. In all other situations it's optimal to lynch CONFIRMED NONTOWN. You are not this stupid, and if you truly are then in postgame I will make sure everyone knows how much of a noob you are. Sorry dude, you're wrong this time. Mafia absolutely needs to die today BECAUSE THEY LOSE A KP. Now how exactly will you be proving that DP is a noob? what the fuck are you talking about, we don't even know mafia counts. 1 mafia is dead, if mafia count is 5 and KP is rounded up then we need to kill TWO mafia to reduce KP. Unless, of course, you know more than I do. no. because if that was the case we lost a kp night one for no reason. LOL guess you're not reading the thread. Remember when VE THE VET flipped last night? He claimed a shot night 1. Jesus. There was 2 KP last night, and we can reasonably assume there was 2 KP on n2 given that 4 players died and we can trace that to TPS and probably Vivax. Which means SCUM PROBABLY HAVE 2 KP. Fucking christ if you are town this is mind numbing. you KNOW I am town.
says the guy who claims that there was a KP missing n1
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On March 27 2013 14:19 WaveofShadow wrote:
Thanks TPS.
Ryu, question.
If you believe cosmic and layabout are scum, and you seem to believe DP is as well, do you really think that 2/4 of the remaining scum would all be the first to jump on a wagon against kita?
The other interesting thing to note about that is cosmic and layabout are not coalescing their votes onto the same target; they pick out kita and DP, which leads me to believe they are attempting to hedge their bets/protect someone.
yes.
Look at how many players we've lost, we've only killed one scum. I think that if they get a mislynch now and one tomorrow we've probably lost.
Also, it makes sense with regard to how they reacted to the situation. Their votes and stories have not stayed consistent. I would expect them to stay consistent if they were truly third party or town who are interested in defeating mafia with town.
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On March 27 2013 14:08 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 14:05 RyuSuzaku wrote:On March 27 2013 14:01 WaveofShadow wrote:
Yes, I'm making an assumption about the setup. Where did the KP go night 1 if they had 3 to start? How do we know they had 3 to start??! They could have 4 members, they could have 5 members and double stacked keirathi, they could have a recruiter for all we know. Same goes for the supposed missing roleblock. Making assumptions of the setup is a great way to lose the game even faster than we're losing already. On March 27 2013 14:00 DarthPunk wrote:On March 27 2013 13:58 RyuSuzaku wrote:On March 27 2013 13:56 DarthPunk wrote:On March 27 2013 13:54 RyuSuzaku wrote:On March 27 2013 13:53 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 27 2013 13:51 RyuSuzaku wrote:On March 27 2013 13:50 DarthPunk wrote:On March 27 2013 13:47 RyuSuzaku wrote:
[quote]
this is scum logic.
Who claims 3 hours before deadline to save themselves? Scum. Who paddles back and forth between calling someone scum and voting someone else to simply live? Scum.
Scum most probably has found an opportunity to win with mislynching town today. If scum lynches town and there are still 2 KP left then we're in a very bad spot.
The argument "do I believe X wins with town? No" Should ALWAYS be followed by "thus I want to lynch X," yet we see here that miraculously DP has somehow come to the conclusion that we should not lynch this nontown player. I don't believe DP is stupid enough as town to do this, so he must be scum. No. that is bullshit. there are situations were it is in the best interest for town to work with third party. namely, when town is in the shit. At the moment lynching 'not town' doesn't cut it. We need to lynch mafia. and if you were town you would understand that. false. At any point where town can win, the only time it doesn't matter who you side with is when you've already lost, aka kingmaker. In all other situations it's optimal to lynch CONFIRMED NONTOWN. You are not this stupid, and if you truly are then in postgame I will make sure everyone knows how much of a noob you are. Sorry dude, you're wrong this time. Mafia absolutely needs to die today BECAUSE THEY LOSE A KP. Now how exactly will you be proving that DP is a noob? what the fuck are you talking about, we don't even know mafia counts. 1 mafia is dead, if mafia count is 5 and KP is rounded up then we need to kill TWO mafia to reduce KP. Unless, of course, you know more than I do. no. because if that was the case we lost a kp night one for no reason. LOL guess you're not reading the thread. Remember when VE THE VET flipped last night? He claimed a shot night 1. Jesus. There was 2 KP last night, and we can reasonably assume there was 2 KP on n2 given that 4 players died and we can trace that to TPS and probably Vivax. Which means SCUM PROBABLY HAVE 2 KP. Fucking christ if you are town this is mind numbing. you KNOW I am town. says the guy who claims that there was a KP missing n1 There is only kp missing working under your assumption that there was 5 scum and KP is rounded up. I don;t believe a kp was missing. Therefore I don;t believe your assumption. God you are claiming scum so hard right now.
I haven't made any assumption. Now you're twisting words.
I already explained that if there were 5 scum and 3 kp, that it could have been used for DSing. Or, they have 2 KP and a recruiter. Or, they have 2 KP and other roles to make up for it (e.g. the mason)
I am not the one making assumptions here. There are more possibilities than simply the one you are suggesting. You are the scum for knowing how the KP works and then trying to use that to make me look bad.
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I also explained early on why a third party recruiter does not make much sense from a balance perspective.
Cosmic and layabout are confirmed nontown. They are either third party or scum, but either way they need to die. (IMO they are more likely scum, but whatever, it doesn't actually matter)
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I don't see anything that was refuted.
Who's making the assumptions again? It's in words-it's not me.
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On March 27 2013 15:23 DarthPunk wrote:
Well. Scum are obviously pushing this lynch pretty hard. I think the scum team is probably DYH + Kita + Ryo. CC and layabout are 99% non town aligned third party.
oh look, another assumption.
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On March 27 2013 15:25 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 15:24 RyuSuzaku wrote:
I don't see anything that was refuted.
Who's making the assumptions again? It's in words-it's not me. the fact that it could have been 5 mafia rounded up. That's what I disagreed with. No point arguing with scum however. So I am going to ignore you from now on.
so you're ignoring the fact that someone could have been double stacked?
hahahaha and you're trying to call me scum. Such fail.
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On March 27 2013 15:29 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 15:26 RyuSuzaku wrote:On March 27 2013 15:25 DarthPunk wrote:On March 27 2013 15:24 RyuSuzaku wrote:
I don't see anything that was refuted.
Who's making the assumptions again? It's in words-it's not me. the fact that it could have been 5 mafia rounded up. That's what I disagreed with. No point arguing with scum however. So I am going to ignore you from now on. so you're ignoring the fact that someone could have been double stacked? hahahaha and you're trying to call me scum. Such fail. why the hell would someone double stack keir and not VE?!?!?!!? you are desperate to stop town realising the bad situation we are in. and you talk about assumptions while making them yourself. I'm not talking to you anymore. Feel free to keep abusing me. I will be vindicated because I KNOW you are scum.
LOL keep squirming, scum.
You make the assumption no one would double stack Keir. You make the assumption that no one would double stack if there were 3 KP. You make the assumption that layabout and cosmic are third party to suit your story. You make the assumption that town benefits from working with third party.
You're making assumptions to suit everything you say. However, it's all fake and wrong since what suits you is what suits scum. Anyone with basic reading comprehension can see that. You claim I've made assumptions and yet I bet you can't even point one out for yourself. I just pointed out at least four.
Keep trying to misrepresent, I dare you. Your threat of not talking to me is already clearly empty, since you know you'll lose either way.
Either you ignore me, and prove me right, or you keep attacking me, and I prove that I'm right. Sucks to be in such a shitty situation, huh?
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to any townies who are lurking right now or are considering switching votes or whatever, think about what I said about the recruiting mechanic.
The mirror claims that he was basically just trolling VE when he told him he had a choice to join him or not. However, it doesn't make sense that cosmic and layabout would become lovers when connected. This has to be a lie, given that it actually is AGAINST cosmic's supposed wincon to connect to someone if that means there's now two ways to die. His claim actually makes literally no sense at all.
It makes far more sense to consider instead that the recruiter is scum. Why?
Well, a third party recruiter has the following HUGE problem:
what happens if he recruits a scum?
Either way, whether VE's description or cosmic's newer description of the role would basically break the game. I do not think a host would be allowed to create a setup in which a mafia member would be allowed to change his wincon because it creates a very very dirty situation. That mafia member would have to actively play against his previous wincondition, but then would have the identities of the other mafia. It just doesn't make much sense.
A mafia recruiter eliminates all these problems. It also makes the claim make much more sense.
The only thing we have to operate on is the fact that the claimer wants to live. Other than that we have no reason to believe the motivation. He's scum.
The votes also put this into perspective. Why, if cosmic were truly interested in finding scum, would he act the way he did regarding both kita and DP? The votes changed as it convenienced cosmic: when cosmic realized that DP could be convinced and kita could not be, he swapped a second time.
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On March 27 2013 15:40 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 15:37 WaveofShadow wrote:
It appears as though cosmic is going down whether you like it or not DP.
I think the most we're going to learn from this is from those who think cc is mafia rather than 3rd party, namely kita. I find it hard to believe that they are lying about the third party issue because that means cc essentially killed layabout if he flips red OR black, (especially since layabout can't seem to get his story straight as to what the role/recruitment means) and I can't see a reason for cc outing another member of his scumteam for essentially no reason.
can you not see that Ryu and Kita are scum. Stop being so wshy-washy. Take a stand a place your vote ffs.
your best argument is "can't you see this", really? You should probably consider putting in more effort next time you roll red.
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On March 27 2013 15:46 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 15:45 RyuSuzaku wrote:
to any townies who are lurking right now or are considering switching votes or whatever, think about what I said about the recruiting mechanic.
The mirror claims that he was basically just trolling VE when he told him he had a choice to join him or not. However, it doesn't make sense that cosmic and layabout would become lovers when connected. This has to be a lie, given that it actually is AGAINST cosmic's supposed wincon to connect to someone if that means there's now two ways to die. His claim actually makes literally no sense at all.
It makes far more sense to consider instead that the recruiter is scum. Why?
Well, a third party recruiter has the following HUGE problem:
what happens if he recruits a scum?
Either way, whether VE's description or cosmic's newer description of the role would basically break the game. I do not think a host would be allowed to create a setup in which a mafia member would be allowed to change his wincon because it creates a very very dirty situation. That mafia member would have to actively play against his previous wincondition, but then would have the identities of the other mafia. It just doesn't make much sense.
A mafia recruiter eliminates all these problems. It also makes the claim make much more sense.
The only thing we have to operate on is the fact that the claimer wants to live. Other than that we have no reason to believe the motivation. He's scum.
The votes also put this into perspective. Why, if cosmic were truly interested in finding scum, would he act the way he did regarding both kita and DP? The votes changed as it convenienced cosmic: when cosmic realized that DP could be convinced and kita could not be, he swapped a second time.
Look at that. He is implying that I am town here. after yelling that I am scum. THIS DUDE IS RED!
nope.
it's what you WANT it to appear like. You're just harping on semantics.
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On March 27 2013 16:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Night 4 Cosmicomics the Mirror has been shattered!Show nested quote +You are The Mirror. A strange artifact collected by the foul noble family that owns the mansion, you have remained asleep for centuries waiting for the right chance to break free. Unaware of your powers, you have taken control of every mirror in the house. Behind these mirrors lies an alternate dimension of which you are the supreme ruler. While you had once controlled the kings of nations through your spell, you have remained trapped in an empty plane of space since the family had taken you. After being hidden away for centuries, you have finally gathered enough power to affect the real world once more.
You may appear in the mirror of any player to mason with them for a cycle. You can choose to communciate anonymously or not. If you mason with a player for two full cycles, they will become converted. Their free will trapped inside your mirror, the corporeal body remains as a servant to your will in the real world. When this happens, communciation is shut off and you may never mason with them again. At any time while masoning with you, a player may choose to look away from the mirror and break the communciation. After two full cycles of communication, that player becomes converted. You can select a target during any time in the game but you can not mason multiple players at once. You can convert mafia successfully. You can only have two converts at any given time. If any one of them dies before you, you can mason again in order to recruit a new mirror image.
Your win condition is to survive to the end of the game. The win condition of a mirror image is to make sure that you survive. You can not be killed at night. If you are lynched, your mirror images revert back to their original alignments.
welp
at least the bolded takes care of the mafia mechanic part, but fuck that's a weird ass role.
good thing we lynched him today then.
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On March 27 2013 16:27 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 16:10 RyuSuzaku wrote:On March 27 2013 16:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Night 4 Cosmicomics the Mirror has been shattered!You are The Mirror. A strange artifact collected by the foul noble family that owns the mansion, you have remained asleep for centuries waiting for the right chance to break free. Unaware of your powers, you have taken control of every mirror in the house. Behind these mirrors lies an alternate dimension of which you are the supreme ruler. While you had once controlled the kings of nations through your spell, you have remained trapped in an empty plane of space since the family had taken you. After being hidden away for centuries, you have finally gathered enough power to affect the real world once more.
You may appear in the mirror of any player to mason with them for a cycle. You can choose to communciate anonymously or not. If you mason with a player for two full cycles, they will become converted. Their free will trapped inside your mirror, the corporeal body remains as a servant to your will in the real world. When this happens, communciation is shut off and you may never mason with them again. At any time while masoning with you, a player may choose to look away from the mirror and break the communciation. After two full cycles of communication, that player becomes converted. You can select a target during any time in the game but you can not mason multiple players at once. You can convert mafia successfully. You can only have two converts at any given time. If any one of them dies before you, you can mason again in order to recruit a new mirror image.
Your win condition is to survive to the end of the game. The win condition of a mirror image is to make sure that you survive. You can not be killed at night. If you are lynched, your mirror images revert back to their original alignments. welp at least the bolded takes care of the mafia mechanic part, but fuck that's a weird ass role. good thing we lynched him today then. This was a bad lynch. We should have killed mafia. RYU IS SCUM LYNCH HIM.
LOL so desperate.
First, how was it a bad lynch?!
I'll spell it out: it wasn't.
If layabout was town before the convert we just got another townie. We also killed a 3P who would control the vote at some point. If layabout was scum we basically didn't move from yesterday. Not a problem.
If we hadn't killed him yesterday, then the game would have been out of our hands tomorrow most likely, because of the town deaths plus the attrition to the 3p.
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yeah worst case scenario is that all the modkills were townies, so I think we would be at lylo if two more die tonight.
If cosmic was alive and we lynched a townie yesterday, and layabout is town, and someone was converted tomorrow, we'd have lost if I'm not mistaken.
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On March 28 2013 15:03 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 14:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
Ryu is slightly more questionable but I don't think kita is scum; this hasn't changed for me.
There are a lot of people who have not interacted with other people in the thread whatsoever either, just because BH-kita is one example does not make him scum.
I don't see you having interacted with DYH at all despite you calling him scum. You also haven't interacted with Kenpachi. What does that mean? Yes I have interacted with kenpachi I called him stupid or something. and I haven't interacted with DYH because he has been such a negligible thread presence. Blazing hand was by kita's own admission a spammy player and had a major presence in the game. Kita QUOTES blazing hand and yet does not interact with him at all aside from backing his mason claim. Blazinghand was a MAJOR presence in the game and scum and kita's interaction or lack thereof is odd. Furthermore, kita has flown under the radar posting one giant post on a not scum every day. Ryu chainsaw defended kita to the extreme and came out of the woodwork as soon as kita's name was throw up as a lynch candidate.
if I die tonight, look into this guy, along with:
ThePeaShooter
glurio
zarepath.
I think they are all very likely to be scum. Kita and Kenpachi possibly could be scum too, but I doubt it.
WoS and Test are both very likely to be town IMO-Test is basically confirmed. WoS is making sense and people should listen to him.
From what it seems, the scum team has been mostly lurking apart from Blazinghand and, now, DP. Most players in the game had suspicions of DP, IIRC all of the currently dead at some point found DP suspicious. DP has done just enough to scrape by without getting under serious scrutiny, while contributing literally nothing to town. Very basic scum strategy.
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On March 28 2013 15:59 DarthPunk wrote:
OK. If I get shot tonight here is what you do.
Lynch Ryu and Kita. If Kita doesn't die tonight he is basically guaranteed to be scum. plus all the stuff with Blazinghand and flying under the radar.
If Wave of Shadow doesn't die tonight he is scum and needs to be lynched.
Zarepath, geript, glurio, TPS and test subject are all probably town. They are lynchbait and have been kept around for that very reason.
DO NOT LYNCH INTO THEM!
DO NOT LISTEN TO THE BULLSHIT THAT RYU IS SPEWING.
Find out who WoS checked. See if it makes sense. I can almost guarantee that it will be zarepath. and that Either: Zarepath will die and flip green. Not die and WoS will get roleblocked.
If you get a red check out of nowhere. DO NOT BLINDLY FOLLOW IT. It is most likely MYLO at that point.
If you get a red check on Zarepath. LYNCH WoS.
GLHF
and
GG kids <3
Proof that DP is scum right here
if he were reading the thread he'd know that test is basically confirmed for shooting BH. He's scum.
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EPT
