EPTPersonality Mafia 2 - Page 5
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 14 2013 23:15 Dandel Ion wrote: imo ppl should try to vote for somebody else and then we'll seen if it's real. I like this ^ slOosh especially, can you try dropping a vote on someone else? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Cora. Stop for a second. (1) Are you stealing slOosh's vote? (2) If so, why? (3) Can you put yamato off for a day? This is an honest request. Whether he's scum or town or 3P or a dog sitting at the computer, it's unlikely we flip him today. If we ever flip him, you're making WAY too much out of what that would do. Him flipping scum doesn't make you magically town, because you could have just tunnelled a scumbuddy and tanked your cred this game, it's a very, very easy way to coast through a game. (4) Read Foolishness's post. Read his claim. Read his claimed actions. Do they sit well with you? Why/Why not? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 14 2013 23:22 marvellosity wrote: So, this is paranoia, but it's a game I like playing. I remembered slOosh posting a heart in thread, made me wonder if the vote steal happened to anyone who posts a heart, or something like that - he's king of anyone who does stuff with hearts. But the timing is wrong.austin this is kinda role speculation, but Corazon is play "king of hearts" and has said I think for ppl to sheep him, made a sheep picture. So it seems plausible that slOosh was compelled to 'sheep' corazon On March 14 2013 08:57 kitaman27 wrote: slOosh has decided to sheep cDgCorazon this cycle. He must vote for whomever cDgCorazon decides to vote. On March 14 2013 09:45 slOosh wrote: <3 Vivax you are after my heart. But yea we can nail him later. Gotta focus today. I want to lynch marv first because we have the most clout today and he is hardest to lynch today, but I assume Foolishness has a good reason to go in that order. Now, the slOosh quote looks wonky just cuz it has a picture and the word, and because cora has been posting about being the king of hearts, and because corazon = heart. But it's after the sheep post from kita, so it couldn't have been a trigger. It might be some kind of fallout, a consequence of having his vote stolen, dunno. All wild, wild speculation but just in case it means something then someone can dig up this post. slOosh also used the term "sheep" three times in a very early post - + Show Spoiler + On March 11 2013 13:16 slOosh wrote: cuz he can shoot him, and people like you let him get away with it why would town use super mod check on kurumi of all people? less posting more sheeping me SHEEP SLOOSH A CHANGE YOU CAN SHEEP IN MAYBE WE COULD SHEPE As to corazon commenting on Foolishness...meh. I don't know how you avoid commenting on him that much. I also don't know how you do nothing but tunnel one player for almost the entire game. It's odd behavior all around. Yes, you guys have been focal points, but he's basically just not commented on ANYONE, so I have no clue what's up there. I can no longer just go "naw guys, fearless entry + trying to figure the game out," because his play continues to look either scummy or ... wrong/weird/whatisgoingon. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 14 2013 23:46 marvellosity wrote: Does a blatantly bad plan with nukes? Bad. Seems to explain it quite well? good. ELI5? I think that the explanation and plan go hand in hand. It LOOKED bad, but given the explanation, may not have been (or was well-intentioned, something like that). I don't think you can quite separate them this much, and the whole nuke plan still just looks very townie. If he's scum, he gives nukes to townie people. Townie people nuke their scumreads. Those scumreads are getting nuked, quite possible that we don't lynch them (see supersoft not wanting to lynch Foolishness, see nobody wanting to lynch Kurumi D1 in bureaucracy). Day ends, we've lynched candidate #3 or #4 because 1 and 2 were getting nuked, the nukes don't go off, day is part-wasted and part spent working things out under false assumptions. None of that happened. Instead, scummy players got nukes, to see how they used them and how people reacted. I don't call that a blatantly bad plan. I call that a very good use of the power he was given. How do you view it as blatantly bad, even outside of the explanation given? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 14 2013 23:51 Oatsmaster wrote: Do you believe that Foolishness received a batman-posting-restriction/unlynchable/fake-1-shot-vigi PM? I changed my mind, too lazy to change my vote if in fact its on Foolishness. Foolishness is town. K got past that? That means that Marv is scum, due to the very nice explanation and trap that foolishness did. Now what marv did after foolishness's post is nitpick on one specific part and never mention it again. DrH said in his mafia podcast(go listen its really nice). That as scum, you dont want to address a hugeass case point by point because then more slips of logic will happen and you are now very under pressure. Instead, marv picks a small portion, blasts it, then moves on. Now people dont really remember that and the focus is off marv and onto foolishness who cant defend himself/hammer marv cause he is not here. Then the thread goes to pieces, with marv hastening its destruction. With Foolishness town, this means that yamato is probably scum, as well as crossfire for reasons previously stated. If so, how does his worry over whether people listen and looking townie mesh up with the fact that he is unlynchable? If not, can you explain why Foolishness is lying in that post? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 14 2013 23:55 marvellosity wrote: We didn't get much information from it and wasting half a day because volatile or suspicious people are pretending to nuke various targets isn't helpful. As to your bold, we were lynching Foolishness today, because I went past the nuke shit. I disagree on not getting much information. We got GOOD info on slOosh and on crossfire, at least from my point of view. I'll take using 1/4 of a day cycle to get info that pretty much convinces me about the alignments of 2 players, and pulls up some minor info elsewhere (we don't know yet everything that came out of that discussion, and we won't know until later). Do you think there was a better/townier thing to do with fake nukes? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 15 2013 00:00 Oatsmaster wrote: Linking role to alignment is USUALLY fucking stupid. But see the discussion earlier about phoenix wright. And see the fact that he is claiming to be UNLYNCHABLE.Linking role to alignment is fucking stupid. Its a themed game. Roles are crazy. Ignore it. If foolishness looked like 95% townie, would you be more inclined to believe him and lynch marv? I would/I want to. The more townie you look, the more people would believe you or sheep you. I dont think getting lynched has anything to do with it. That's NOT a role you can hand to scum in a balanced game, unless other people are toting ridiculous powers. We had 16 trillion calls for crossfire or vivax to get vigied N1. Neither of them got vigied. That implies that we don't have much in the way of vigi power, maybe some very conditional stuff. And yet we're somehow supposed to kill an unlynchable scum player? No thanks. Roles usually doesn't = alignment. Unlynchable isn't just a role, unlynchable is actually bending the rules of the game. Same as supersoft's zombie role. If he flips scum and comes back as a zombie for the day...oh well. We know he's scum, we don't listen. It's a role that is absolutely 100% useless in the hands of scum, but powerful for a townie. There are certain roles, especially roles that bend/break the rules of the game, that just can't be utilized by one side, or can't be balanced if they appear on one side. If Foolishness looked very townie, then sure, there's more of a chance I believe him. If he flips townie, or isn't lynched, and marv doesn't get NKed, then I'm more apt to look at him harder and see if he's just fooling me again. But I'm not placing my vote today based on "If this game were different, I'd probably take this action." I'm voting based on what I've seen and read in the game as it is, not as it might be. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 15 2013 00:03 Vivax wrote: You'd post, and you'd try to swing the lynch other ways.+ Show Spoiler + On March 14 2013 23:56 austinmcc wrote: Do you believe that Foolishness received a batman-posting-restriction/unlynchable/fake-1-shot-vigi PM? If so, how does his worry over whether people listen and looking townie mesh up with the fact that he is unlynchable? If not, can you explain why Foolishness is lying in that post? Austin, you are unlynchable but have scumreads and town still wants to lynch you over your scumreads. Do you not post anything about your scumreads to persuade them just cause you're unlynchable? Do you think he would just not do anything cause he's unlynchable as town? But...you'd do 2 things. You'd post reads/arguments, and you'd inform everyone you were unlynchable. You still get your reads/arguments into the thread, and people know you're not going to die, that you don't care about the lynch, etc. Foolishness did 3 things. He posted reads/arguments, informed everyone he was unlynchable, and also worried about how townie he looked/what actions would make him look townier. To the extent that he is concerned with that, who cares, because HE WILL SURVIVE A MO-FO-ING lynch. It's good to want to look townie. It's good to want people to listen to you. It's not good to want to look townie, want people to listen to you, and conveniently forget that you are claiming to be unlynchable, which means that the actions of the game will make you look super townie as they play out. At the very least, that consideration should be in your mind. And it doesn't seem to have been there for Foolishness. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
He wanted to use his vig shot to look townie. He wanted to use his nuke to look townie. He doesn't seem to realize that he could use his UNLYNCHABILITY to look townie. He wanted to use his role/actions to look townie, but not the giant, neon sign, HEY LOOK GUYS I'M TOWN part of his role. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 15 2013 00:13 Vivax wrote: We agree that you should still be defending yourself and getting reads out there.The thing is, people are less prone to believe your scumreads if they believe you're scum in the first place. I don't see why Foolish should completely disregard defending himself just cause he claims to be unlynchable, also his post was a long story of thought process throughout the game, so the points to his defense come, let's say naturally. Look austin, from your perspective, it's the start of the day, so a lot of people want to lynch you. You could simply tell your scumreads, or you could tell your scumreads and defend yourself to make yourself more credible. The latter is always a better option, unlynchable or not. But his defense is suspect to me, because of his claimed role and because he seems to have taken A and B into account, but not C, which I don't understand. He also didn't defend himself at the start of the day, he waited until all the nuke stuff blew over. That's...neither here nor there, I don't think that matters all too much, but at the start of the day he got like 4 votes and some other suspicions, nuked yamato, and then peaced out for half a day (apart from dropping a weird comment on risk.nuke). Instead of explaining himself, he fired the first nuke of the day and dipped, and you saw what the thread was like for a long time. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 15 2013 00:20 yamato77 wrote: I won't claim to have a magical meta-activity-read on risk, and that seems to be what most reads on him are based on?Austin, what's your read on risk.nuke? He's in the group I'm concerned with. I don't like that he's still there. I'll skip a discussion of the bits of his filter that I can't figure out - his pushing non-majority targets D1 (scum being present but not really interacting with the thread or actual hunting of interesting targets), On March 13 2013 18:53 risk.nuke wrote: Foolishness just pulled a stunt, I'll revaluate based on how that goes. Before that I would porbably had been fine lynching him based on his performance. This quote worries me. I didn't remember this until filtering just now. I don't THINK foolishness claimed his nuke to be a stunt. This was before slOosh spoke on the nukes, before Crossfire launched his nuke. But risk seems to know that the nuke that Foolish launched was a "stunt." It's...gah. Foolishness didn't know the nuke was fake at this point, unless EVERYONE is scum, so it...it isn't incriminating? It really isn't scummy unless risk and slOosh were both scum, because only then could risk know that the nuke was a "stunt" and not a real nuke? Blech, not as important as I thought. The ONLY thing in his filter that really gives me a whiff of anything is him picking up on Foolishness's role feeling like crap. That makes me mildly townie on him. It puts him above prplhz, hiropro, possibly strongandbig in the group of players that I keep lumping together. risk's filter is going to look a LOT more informative with a couple flips though. His D1 targets and his "reevaluation" of his non-Foolishness lynches for today seem like they could be telling once we fill in other holes. If you can find more in his filter to read him off of, be my guest. But there's very little in there that's doing anything for me one way or the other, barring not trusting Foolishness's claim. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Each is spending a majority of his focus on the other. Makes it look less suspicious that neither is taking control over town in a bunch of aspects and directing things, because they're really just focused on this one guy, and when that one guy flips scum, ta da! All the effort worth it. More focus on a singular targets just helps duck a policy lynch later on, imo. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 15 2013 00:59 marvellosity wrote: majority of focus. Not all. Also a lot of your questioning Corazon, at least today, was entirely unproductive, and balancing out posting on foolishness with banging your head against a wall isn't really balance.You do realise that I wanted to lynch Corazon earlier in the day before Hiro prodded me back towards Foolish, right?  | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 15 2013 02:17 slOosh wrote: Sorry, I'm not quite making the little bit that I'm getting at clear.To do that he has to waste a town lynch. Waste a town lynch. When the town lynch is the most reliable important tool for scumkilling. Looking townie is important if scum has been shoveling doubt on you all day, because even if you have all the right reads, it doesn't matter if people don't listen. I think there are good town motivations for his actions. I don't want him to sit back and wait to be lynched, then be alive, then say, "See, I'm town." But to the extent that he is trying to use his role to make himself look town - the vig shot, the nuke - he seems to forget that another part of his role will make him look town without even doing anything, the unlynchability. He references power A and B as being used to make him seem townier. He doesn't even mention that once power C is activated, he'll look super duper mega townie. If I were REALLY on the chopping block, and I were REALLY concerned with using my role to look townie, I would have included that. He's actually on the chopping block. So the way he discussed what he's done to look townie, and more importantly what he leaves out of that discussion, leads me to believe he's not concerned with looking townie, or he's lying about his role. I dunno if this makes any more sense, I feel like I can never actually spell out what I'm looking at here. Besides the fact that his role sounds fabricated, there's just a sense that he pulls in parts of the role to bolster his narrative, but leaves out other parts of the role that would also bolster the narrative. So I see a hole there in how he's creating his narrative/explaining his role and actions, and it reads to me as scummy. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 15 2013 02:58 marvellosity wrote: I wish this did not feel so very truethe fact he's making terrible assumptions like that still probably mean he's town, though. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
THIS IS THE THREAD POLICE. COME OUT WITH YOUR HANDS UP. SERIOUSLY, GET YOUR HANDS OFF THE KEYBOARD. PUT THEM UP. DO NOT PUT THEM BACK ON THE KEYBOARD. FACT: This thread is full of A LOT of nonsense today. FACT: Threads full of nonsense are bad for town. OPINION: If you read a Vivax post that is ridiculous/nonsensical/flip-floppy/etc. and you want to comment on it, DO NOT OPINION: If you read a Vivax post that is actually logical, pursuing a read that makes any kind of sense at all to you, then feel free to agree/disagree/discuss that comment, and not deal with anything else he says OPINION: Associations based on flips/votes that have happened are SOMEWHAT OKAY, associations based on who might flip what if they weren't so alive are NOT OKAY. There has been so much crap filling the thread today about Yamato/marv/foolish/peter pan/vivax/dick cancer and it's running us around in circles. Tbh, I really only want to read the following things: [list][*]admissions of stealing prplhz's vote [*]any reads of darthpunk's [*]anything that supersoft says [*]DI and iamperfection's comments on stuff that isn't yamato/marv/foolish/vivax [*]posts wherein someone discovers CRAZY SCUMSLIPS THE SIZE OF THE MOON, and maybe the size of THREE MOONS if it concerns marv/foolishness/yamato [*]posts from promethelax, who has been super absent today But seriously, can we just save all the comments on what we will think/do if someone flips whatever for when someone flips whatever or not whatever? Cuz that's kind of the time they actually mean anything. We should be discussing this lynch like rational people that want a legible thread, but we are actually doing such a poor job with that that it feels like we would be better served to not even discuss the lynch. For emphasis. So much of this discussion is so shitty and repetitive and full of nothing that it feels as if it would be better for us, as a town, to NOT DISCUSS A LYNCH. That is ridiculous. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On March 15 2013 03:21 austinmcc wrote: WEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEE THIS IS THE THREAD POLICE. COME OUT WITH YOUR HANDS UP. SERIOUSLY, GET YOUR HANDS OFF THE KEYBOARD. PUT THEM UP. DO NOT PUT THEM BACK ON THE KEYBOARD. FACT: This thread is full of A LOT of nonsense today. FACT: Threads full of nonsense are bad for town. OPINION: If you read a Vivax post that is ridiculous/nonsensical/flip-floppy/etc. and you want to comment on it, DO NOT OPINION: If you read a Vivax post that is actually logical, pursuing a read that makes any kind of sense at all to you, then feel free to agree/disagree/discuss that comment, and not deal with anything else he says OPINION: Associations based on flips/votes that have happened are SOMEWHAT OKAY, associations based on who might flip what if they weren't so alive are NOT OKAY. There has been so much crap filling the thread today about Yamato/marv/foolish/peter pan/vivax/dick cancer and it's running us around in circles. Tbh, I really only want to read the following things:
But seriously, can we just save all the comments on what we will think/do if someone flips whatever for when someone flips whatever or not whatever? Cuz that's kind of the time they actually mean anything. We should be discussing this lynch like rational people that want a legible thread, but we are actually doing such a poor job with that that it feels like we would be better served to not even discuss the lynch. For emphasis. So much of this discussion is so shitty and repetitive and full of nothing that it feels as if it would be better for us, as a town, to NOT DISCUSS A LYNCH. That is ridiculous. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On March 15 2013 03:33 supersoft wrote: Here's a thought! Now I will go and do scumhunting and see if it leads anywhere, then I will come back and inform everyone of my results.I'll read more and I'll update you. guys. Right now, I am working on the people that weren't in the spotlight yet. It's possible, that Foolishness and marv both are town and our scumteam hides somewhere between Ver and prplhz. On March 15 2013 00:52 Oatsmaster wrote: Here's a thought! OH HOLY SHITBALLS WHAT IF IT'S RIGHT, MAYBE WE SHOULD LOOK OVER HERE, OR OVER HERE, OR OVER HERE? MAYBE I SHOULD JUST TOSS OUT NAAAAAAAAAAAAMES.Is there a situation that both Foolishness and Marv are town and that we need to look elsewhere? Like, YAMATO!!!! Those two posts present the exact same thought. One takes it in a townie direction and goes scumhunting with it, or AT LEAST goes to find new information. One angers the thread police, because it just tosses the thought out there, tacks on a second thought attached to the first, and doesn't go forward at all. Please be the first poster. How you present your thoughts and what you DO with them are so telling, and so helpful in making this thread legible | ||
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