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On March 12 2013 23:38 yamato77 wrote:
Austin, you're over-thinking the situation and applying too many connections to this. It's quite simple.
Foolishness is playing like mafia, whether he lied about his read on Marv or not, or whatever it is that Marv is spewing on about.
His about turn on Vivax is ridiculous and completely in line with mafia motivations if Vivax is also scum with Foolish.
Since then they have both hard defended each other. Foolish and his mates have a history of doing this, a la Parallel World with BH/Foolish. It's like I'm reading a mash-up of LVIII/Parallel right now, to be honest. Scum Foolish/Vivax/Super all doing stupid things and covering Foolish up with the "don't lynch Foolish d1 cuz he's good".
Lynch them. I am going to look elsewhere, and maybe I'm overthinking, but their whole little spat is just a mess.
However, for someone cautioning against drawing connections, you're drawing a LOT of connections yourself. Knock it off, let's play a game. I am going to pick one not-overly-vocal non-newbie non-supervet player. You're going to give me your read on that person, and also berate them for not being more active. Then you're going to ask me about one of the same folks.
strongandbig, go
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On March 13 2013 00:11 yamato77 wrote:
SNB is obvitown.
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Now it's your turn. Give me Corazon.
Not scum.
Relatively new player, jumps in with a post that is playful and very visible. (I'm the king of hears, picture, jokes about not wanting people to be scum, jokes about killing folks, etc.)
On March 10 2013 15:58 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2013 15:55 HiroPro wrote:On March 10 2013 15:05 VisceraEyes wrote:
Re: Yamato
His early posting came across as "Look how much I hate scum guys GRRRRR!" and coupled with his perceived change of demeanor since being called down reads as overly diplomatic. Hence, the vote.
@Ver
Interesting if true! You leave yourself open to mafia manipulation if you're town though, but I imagine it's all part of the game to you. Judging by your post on the matter, it seems as if you're going to be pushing an agenda that punishes poor play rather than scummy play. Am I misunderstanding your intentions here? interesting cupcake. the heart king is tickling my fancy more right now. shall we start some shennanies together? ##Vote cDgCorazon It's 3 hours into the game, so I'm just going to disregard your vote for now. It's stupid anyways.
Again, very open/brash.
Tried to read some of wbg's posts and was one of the few people concerned about me as mayor, probably the most vocal in asking me questions about it. Both of those show that cora is trying to understand the game, in my mind. That's a townie quality to me.
Very tunnel-y on Yamato. I have only read one game of corazon's, a newbie that I coached, and he was somewhat tunnel-y there, in terms of making reads and being set in them. Not really a tell either way for me, imo. However, he's putting a lot of effort into tunneling Yamato. If he's just looking to look active, he's doing it, but this reads more like he's actively pursuing this. (1) He defends why he stays on yamato rather than switching to oats, after saying he liked snb's case on oats and taking heat for that (sticks to his guns/case, does not appear overly worried about suspicion on him), (2) interpresed with responding to people about oats, updates his case on yamato.
I read a lot of his posts concerning (1) above as townie. I don't like how much he's tunneling yamato, he's blind to other things happening. I don't love how much he likes snb's case, when I felt like it was a good starting point but was actually kind of weak overall (oats going after "easy targets" during the beginning of the game, and skipping some of oats's accusations).+ Show Spoiler +On March 11 2013 06:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
I'm not pushing Oats because I am pushing my own read (Yamato). Just because SnB's case is good doesn't give us an excuse to sit around for 24+ hours and do nothing. I've already said why Yamato is scummy and now I'm voting for him. It's pretty simple. townie On March 11 2013 23:19 cDgCorazon wrote:
I said I liked the case. You are looking way too much into that fact and you're just trying to shit up the thread. concern over shitting up the thread. While cora and marv WERE somewhat shitting up the thread, actively calling someone out for that while you're helping is NOT a good way of hiding that if you're scum. Calls attention to something you're doing that is scummy, not a good scum play, therefore more likely town play.
Biggest dislike in the filter was this post, but mainly because it's subpar for town, not because it's scummy:On March 11 2013 23:46 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 23:39 marvellosity wrote:
Again, how would you say his play differs to Hiro's game? Or does it not differ but that doesn't matter in this specific instance?
I have to go but I can't say much so: Hiro is the same when it comes to going after easy targets Hiro has not given much advice so I can't say anything about #2 However, their play is slightly similar. A big lack of thread presence and a lack of scum hunting. Hiro would be someone else I would be ok with lynching after Yamato. (That brings the list of people to Oats, Hiro, and Acro-who hasn't contributed much besides overreacting to everything). There are times when it feels like cora ... capitulates to marv? Like cora clearly wants to lynch yamato, clearly thinks he has reason to lynch yamato over oats or anyone else. But marv keeps hammering on cora and cora comes back with this, which I...dislike. Here, cora breaks out of the yamato tunnel somewhat, but not really. Minor comments on hiro, minor comments on acro, both of which could be useful if cora would flesh out his thoughts a little more. This is where, despite me thinking that towncora can tunnel like he was doing, I dont' like cora's play, because this is a clear opportunity to do something OTHER than tunnel, and he's just half-heartedly taking advantage of it.
Overall conclusion: Townie. Starts out playful/open, is looking to understand the game, and I've seen him be somewhat tunnel-y as town. Could be more useful, SHOULD be more useful, needs to knock it off with the tunnel.
your turn again: Acrofales
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On March 13 2013 00:34 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 00:31 yamato77 wrote:On March 13 2013 00:25 Vivax wrote:On March 13 2013 00:21 yamato77 wrote:On March 13 2013 00:18 Vivax wrote:On March 13 2013 00:10 Mocsta wrote:
I don't see marv as scum.
If you want to policy lynch him in LYLO watever... we are in Night 1 - its not relevant
Fact:
marv filter has a good consistency in approach.
I get an overall vibe that he is trying to really piece this game together & making an effort to communicate his point to get the other person to see his thought process. Thats pretty towny. His points also don't feel contrived.
Scum happy to put a piece into the mix, and fuck off. I am not seeing that behaviour here.
Marv is a *Very* valid medic save this night. + He claimed parity cop. And how does it affect your read on him if he doesn't get roleblocked? WIFOMWIFOMWIFOM No scum doesn't want investigative roles to work there is no WIFOM version of it where they let them work so people think they're scum. If they do, well whatever scum-positive checks marv claims will always have a red and a green so he will have to claim roleblocks at some point if he fakeclaimed. Agreed on letting marv slip for the moment yamato is a better lynch actually  Just by talking about it you introduce WIFOM Don't be an idiot. Look, marv claimed cop and is the guy to be killed super early as town so it's not WIFOM if I say that he's likely scum if he gets neither RB'd nor killed. If you're scum you don't say "Let's keep this guy alive so we push for his lynch for staying alive", you say "let's kill this guy cause he's a fucking dangerous townie". Any strong player dying early as town is proof for this statement else they could keep them alive to push them later right? It's N1. D2 we get a lynch. Honest, answer, do you feel that "Strong player who has claimed parity cop is not dead by D2" should = lynch that player D2.
If you don't, then it's not a matter than needs discussing right now. We can policy-lynch marv later.
If so, you need to explain to me why Marv is the first strong-player policy lynch, and not Foolishness/Ver/someone else AND you need to explain why we should be policy lynching by D2. That basically starts a precedent of us ONLY policy lynching this game, which is ridiculous.
Furthermore, we can assume marv is telling the truth, but we don't know that he's a cop, although it seems like he's also claiming to be VE, in which case compulsive, truthful claiming would make some sense as a role.
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On March 13 2013 00:40 Vivax wrote:Vivax wrote on this very same page:Show nested quote +Agreed on letting marv slip for the moment yamato is a better lynch actually Then make good on that and let it slip. Doesn't matter much if you say that but don't do it.
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On March 13 2013 00:42 yamato77 wrote:
I want to argue with you on Cora a moment because I disagree with how you characterize the early parts of his post.
His early posting is roleplaying, and it feels stiff to me. There is something markedly different about his attack on me this game and his attack on me night zero of Duel that makes me uneasy. I suggest you read the early part of his filter this game and that game and come away with a better understanding of him.
Also, it makes the fact that he is unwilling to go away from me even more concerning. In duel, he was much more active with other reads while maintaining his read on me than he is here. I have him leaning scum in my books, because of this meta distinction. I will read that later today and revise. I am working off of the newbie game I coached, and have not read duel.
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On March 13 2013 00:44 Mocsta wrote:(1) I am going to bed (2) Austin, thanks for a waste of a read on Corazon. You got me all excited for accepting yamato challenge on corazon. I noticed you did not reference a single issues I raised to corazon.. in particular his image-centric agenda. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=400204¤tpage=78#1544In fairness, he hasn't replied to this case.So my question to you: Do you think his clear ad-hominem approach to the game, is still indicative of the townie Corazon you think you are familiar with? The town cora that I'm familiar with is consistent with what I've seen. I will read duel and see if that changes anything. I think you're overdoing it with some of your points in that post.
Your point (1) - cora says not to accuse him of not scumhunting. You accuse him of calling attention to the fact that him scumhunted to mean he's concerned about his image and that he's trying to set himself up as "confirmed town." I read that post as "You say I'm not scumhunting, but I have been." I focus less on the "first one" and more on what he's responding to.
Your point (2) calls out cora for If you really did want to push your scum read. you could have said simply
"I like the SnB case on oats, but I think yam is scummier. Im sticking with him" which is pretty much what I read 1/2 his filter as saying.
I don't think his focus has been on the right areas of the game, as of yet. But I do think that the way he's played has made him look townie. I'll return to this after reading duel, but right now I'm going to get some work done and I'll come back to all this later.
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Didn't we establish that the pro GF snipe line was roleplaying?
If he's town, he did a horrible job of communicating what was actually happening. But the text of that line is not part of his scummy play or poor communication, it was a throwback to a Bang Bang post, right?
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On March 13 2013 01:02 austinmcc wrote:
Didn't we establish that the pro GF snipe line was roleplaying?
If he's town, he did a horrible job of communicating what was actually happening. But the text of that line is not part of his scummy play or poor communication, it was a throwback to a Bang Bang post, right?
Yes, me, it does appear to be roleplaying
On June 16 2012 17:27 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
After the game I'll tell you what you should have done differently supersoft.
##Shoot: Supersoft
Ya'll ready for a pro gf snipe?
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On March 13 2013 01:52 Acrofales wrote:
What "balance" reason can anybody come up with for giving a scum a modconfirmed DT check? It's not a "modconfirmed DT check"
it's a "modconfirmed DT check that also kills the person." Modconfirming a townie doesn't seem like a big downer for town when that person is also guaranteed to die.
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On March 13 2013 01:53 strongandbig wrote:
do people agree that all the roles probably have hidden powers like the two who just died did?
I' Not as extreme as bugs's, but I could see there being a lot of hidden minor bits.
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On March 13 2013 02:00 Vivax wrote:
Wow you're using changing opinions on how to play the game as argument against a player who just started playing mafia.
Town marv isn't this bad. Eh, unless there's any reason to believe that cora's opinions have changed, you're again assuming something that you have no basis for.
I actually like that point, and now REALLY need to read duel.
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Was away for a moment, noticed slOosh talk.
I checked Personality 1 because I thought there'd been a role that had to tunnel someone and only post on them. Didn't find it, but maybe skipped over. Is there anyone known for just fighting with MZ every game they're in? I agree with slOosh being a futureproblem, but his activity being ONLY to tunnel made me think that perhaps it's a personality limitation, despite most personalities in this game not coming with the same extreme limitations that they came with in 1.
Couldn't find a particular role, but if there's a player known for fighting with MZ, or a player known just for tunneling, it's a possible explanation (that doesn't say anything about his alignment  )
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On March 13 2013 03:26 marvellosity wrote:
no, you're HiroPro is probably right. I Marvellosity was just thinking about it and I Marvellosity thinks I Marvellosity does it himself in certain contexts.
I don't have an explanation for it, except that the above is proof that it is amusing
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On March 13 2013 04:11 VisceraEyes wrote:
I think Ver is lying about not reading his role. That is an active decision to play against your win con, and Ver doesn't strike me as that sort of player from my limited experience with him. He also doesn't strike me as the type of scum player who would draw attention to himself by lying in such a manner. Conversely, Ver strikes me as EXACTLY the kind of town player who would lie about reading his Role PM.
Ver should be considered town Imo. Whatever that's worth. I agree with this conclusion, but came at it from another angle. I know gaming "balance" isn't the best, but Foolishness as scum makes Ver as town more likely imo.
BC just got mentioned again as well, and I don't like how most of what he did D1 was just comment on Foolishness/Ver/slOosh being absent, then see himself out. His filter is larger than I remembered, but says as much or less than I remember. I'll follow up more on this later, but Foolishness as scum + BC looking scummy have me townie on Ver for the time being.
1-2 mafia in that group
2-3 mafia in the people that have been around longer than me but aren't super-vets (AND HALF OF WHOM ARE NEAR INVISIBLE THIS GAME)
0-2 mafia in newer folks
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On March 13 2013 04:20 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 02:51 marvellosity wrote:On March 13 2013 02:49 Acrofales wrote:On March 13 2013 01:55 strongandbig wrote:On March 13 2013 01:52 Acrofales wrote:
Oh, and one other thing. What "balance" reason can anybody come up with for giving a scum a modconfirmed DT check? If the DT check was also Yamato, how the fuck does that work as scum? And if he got it, why in god's name would he EVER use it? foolishness or radfield role is town powers but scum aligned, they're well known for being amazing as town but both terrible as scum and hating to play scum. like how wbg role was town powers but scum aligned the day vig would have been the hidden "beneficial" side of the power, he wouldn't have been told about it until after the public dt check happened. I thought you were pretty levelheaded and townie at the time, but this post is not making sense to me. WBG's role was survivor, not scum aligned. His powers were meh. Unless you are talking about Kurumi, in which case he was town aligned, not scum aligned at all. The impression I got from Yamato is that he knew all along what his power would do. Now, why would scum get a DT check? It makes no sense. Even if it is combined with a dayvig. Either Yamato is lying about how his power works, or he is town. The role makes NO sense for scum. I'm pretty wary of this argument. Just because it makes no sense, it doesn't mean that it's in fact not the case ;p there's enough other reasons to make a read of the situation one way or another without worrying whether a role makes sense for a particular alignment. Fine. I see no reason why scum would use an anonymous dayvig shot to take out Kurumi, when they could use it on any one of the high profile targets. I definitely see no reason why scum would CLAIM their anonymous dayvig shot after using it, especially if the only way it gets outed is if it is first confirmed to hit a townie. Even if you think the "balance" reason is not valid, the way it was used is completely stupid for scum. Scum doesn't shoot scumspect townies who are martyring themselves and shitting up the thread. They definitely don't announce that they are doing that: they know that player is a townie. Unless you've seen yamato's PM, you don't know if it's anonymous.
There was no ##Shoot: Kurumi, but the "pro GF snipe" was a pretty clear reference to MZ's shot. It wasn't like we were confused as to who had shot once it happened.
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On March 13 2013 04:27 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 04:27 VisceraEyes wrote:
I've never claimed like that. /indignant i know, it's actually an extremely dull way for the role to work because I can't even get at all creative with it. Perhaps you don't have to claim to be checking only your targets?
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On March 13 2013 04:34 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 04:23 austinmcc wrote:On March 13 2013 04:20 Acrofales wrote:On March 13 2013 02:51 marvellosity wrote:On March 13 2013 02:49 Acrofales wrote:On March 13 2013 01:55 strongandbig wrote:On March 13 2013 01:52 Acrofales wrote:
Oh, and one other thing. What "balance" reason can anybody come up with for giving a scum a modconfirmed DT check? If the DT check was also Yamato, how the fuck does that work as scum? And if he got it, why in god's name would he EVER use it? foolishness or radfield role is town powers but scum aligned, they're well known for being amazing as town but both terrible as scum and hating to play scum. like how wbg role was town powers but scum aligned the day vig would have been the hidden "beneficial" side of the power, he wouldn't have been told about it until after the public dt check happened. I thought you were pretty levelheaded and townie at the time, but this post is not making sense to me. WBG's role was survivor, not scum aligned. His powers were meh. Unless you are talking about Kurumi, in which case he was town aligned, not scum aligned at all. The impression I got from Yamato is that he knew all along what his power would do. Now, why would scum get a DT check? It makes no sense. Even if it is combined with a dayvig. Either Yamato is lying about how his power works, or he is town. The role makes NO sense for scum. I'm pretty wary of this argument. Just because it makes no sense, it doesn't mean that it's in fact not the case ;p there's enough other reasons to make a read of the situation one way or another without worrying whether a role makes sense for a particular alignment. Fine. I see no reason why scum would use an anonymous dayvig shot to take out Kurumi, when they could use it on any one of the high profile targets. I definitely see no reason why scum would CLAIM their anonymous dayvig shot after using it, especially if the only way it gets outed is if it is first confirmed to hit a townie. Even if you think the "balance" reason is not valid, the way it was used is completely stupid for scum. Scum doesn't shoot scumspect townies who are martyring themselves and shitting up the thread. They definitely don't announce that they are doing that: they know that player is a townie. Unless you've seen yamato's PM, you don't know if it's anonymous. There was no ##Shoot: Kurumi, but the "pro GF snipe" was a pretty clear reference to MZ's shot. It wasn't like we were confused as to who had shot once it happened. Kitaman's announcements only announced MZ, not that it was Yamato as MZ. It was therefore anonymous (there were no actions in the thread or vote thread). The check, yeah. But there was a long delay before the shot. And in the intervening time, yamato posted his pro GF snipe.
I agree with poor choice, but everyone seems to be using different terminology to describe what happened and it's no good. We do not know whether it was anonymous or not. We can be more sure the check/announcement was anonymous, but there's a possibility the shot was triggered by the pro GF snipe comment.
Nitpicky, but you're assuming something we don't know.
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Hey look everybody. It's a thing that's more interesting than Vivax right now!
On March 13 2013 04:49 prplhz wrote:
I think that BloodyC0bbler is scum.
...
Anyway, I really think that BloodyC0bbler is scum. How you guys feel about it? I actually agree. Had not gone diving as much, but I remember him as being much more vocal and in charge in LVII.
That was the game where Mattchew claimed self-aware miller when millers weren't self-aware, but BC was still active for the rest of the day despite of having a guaranteed scum D1. He wasn't just active in posting, he was active in continuing to make reads, and explaining them relatively well. That D1 had a lot of wonkiness, and there are a lot of posts where he just sets the record straight and shows exactly why he's thinking what he thinks/reacting how he reacts.
In this game, he's so focused on Foolishness/Ver/slOosh, and then at the end of the cycle on bugs/yamato. But it's not so much the limited topics on which he decided to post, it's his posts on anything else that I dislike most of all.
On March 11 2013 12:11 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
This just in, Oats softclaimed scum.
On March 11 2013 12:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote:no you. This exchange was markedly different from LVII exchangesOn September 05 2012 07:07 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Well if he thinks your scum, hes going to ignore your posts against him, or at least treat them with extreme bias. Notice he responds to someone else when they poke at his case and even makes mention of asking if someone else has an issue (grush I believe). What you or I perceive as bad doesn't mean the person who makes the case does. Getting caught up in the heat of the moment or when you are so sure you are right leads you to do in some cases dumb things as town. Mafia making these mistakes this early is possible as well but seems pretty dumb to do given the current day events. I honestly need him to post more before I can be assured of his guilt as well townies do make bad cases.
On September 05 2012 07:07 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Well if he thinks your scum, hes going to ignore your posts against him, or at least treat them with extreme bias. Notice he responds to someone else when they poke at his case and even makes mention of asking if someone else has an issue (grush I believe). What you or I perceive as bad doesn't mean the person who makes the case does. Getting caught up in the heat of the moment or when you are so sure you are right leads you to do in some cases dumb things as town. Mafia making these mistakes this early is possible as well but seems pretty dumb to do given the current day events. I honestly need him to post more before I can be assured of his guilt as well townies do make bad cases.
On September 05 2012 09:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:17 Ottoxlol wrote:
I just don't get it. Why is it simpler to fuck up as scum? Tell me "kid".
I went into the whole hypotethical thing because I was discussing why would a nonscum Matt fake-claim. So why would a scum Matt fake-claim? if this was a selfaware miller game, a tracker could very well track him n1 then if he's scum it would be revealed. Think of it this way. It was a question never answered by Palmar in thread. Now, most people (even if self aware miller) tend to not claim as even if they do claim people tend to not take them seriously unless a group of them does it. Now, when one person claims, you can gauge the towns reaction and then to prove that millers are self aware the scum team slowly "claims". Basically you can have an entire team or 2-3 people out themselves in this manner and be given a full get out of lynch free card should the people they visit die for a night or two. This may not seem to be much but it means later on in the game people start arguing about if the claims are legit, are only some of them legit, etc.... It makes no sense for town to fakeclaim but in an setup that was so ambiguous it would be a brilliant move if you could pull it off. My only frustration is I could have potentially snagged more than just him had I waited longer before calling him out. Activity might be due to work/commitments/whatever. But the tone of his posts, and the way that he responded to questions like Oats's...that's a different matter. Plenty of other examples of helpful/explainy BC in that filter, he spent all day either doing that routine or chatting with DrH and BM.
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marv, I don't care if your role involves having to claim things, it's a bad idea to spell it out more than you need to in the thread.
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On March 13 2013 06:44 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Also the case on me by prpl makes me laugh. Try harder mr try hard.
Austin also super baddy. Why would bc change his posting style in a game with altered personalities. Likely because hes playing his personality. Themed games dont equal normal. Nor does the fact I have less time now to actively play.
However good try captain try hard 2. Themed games don't equal normal. And the less time thing flies with me, I care more about what you did post than how much of it there was.
But I don't know who your personality is, nor do I know how hard you're roleplaying as that person. "It's a personality game and I might be acting out of the part of some unknown person" is not as airtight an explanation as you're thinking. You might be roleplaying. You might be scum. Either way, your play this game looks scummy.
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EPT
