I have finished preening my Komodo Dragon's feathers and am here to help.
Firstly, The only people in this thread making any sense are VE and DrH. Besides them and myself nobody should even be considered for the mayoral role.
Randombum's election idea is really, really bad. So bad, it jumps out-- but his thought process tells me it's not scummy.
I don't like layabout but I _do_ like his support for a prom lynch. Layabout is no longer my lynch target should I get elected: Promethelax is. Prom has cleverly attacked me in my absence so that this will look like an OMGUS, but it's not. Here's a rundown of prom's RNG discussion.
To begin: Prom suggests as his platform RNG (link), states he believes in it utterly (link) and fails to adequately address people questioning whether it will be pure RNG (link)
His next mention of RNG is at 09:57 when he makes this post:+ Show Spoiler +
On February 26 2013 09:57 Promethelax wrote: Okay, so RNG didn't create the discussion I wanted. Screw you guys.
On February 26 2013 09:20 geript wrote: It looks to me that the best person for mayor is someone who is willing to: A. put in the time to read the thread B. both make and evaluate other's cases C. is unlikely to be an early target for NK In this regard I would nominate myself as I am more likely to devote more time to reading (both filters and filter in the context of the thread as a whole) than anyone else. Additionally, I am relatively unknown which removes untoward bias for or against me due to previous games as well as making me a more impartial arbiter as it regards established players.
My lynch platform is: Scum read > hard/impossible to read > null read > town read
## vote geript
Except for the fact that you were killed N1 last game for the above reasons, by someone who is very likely smurfing in this game.
He focuses on the likelihood of a night kill on gerpit, he is too interested in night actions and not in the candidacy or the actual ideas which gerpit proposes. I'm not a fan of this post or WoS's mentality.
Vote me, screw random lynch. I'll lynch WoS.
Other posters have outlined why this is enormously scummy, but also note that he pivots onto WoS here. He votes for VE despite VE saying that prom is on his lynch list, then he martyrs, then he makes this post, 3 hours after his post attacking WoS, attacking me: + Show Spoiler +
On February 26 2013 09:09 Toadesstern wrote: okay actually screw that, I checked it. It's not pretty much exactly word for word, it IS word for word copy & paste. So it's not bullshit but supposed to be funny bullshit. Makes it decent and funny. From LIX: click me
##unvote
No shit Sherlock, thanks for admitting the humour in this. Vivax got it.
Funny but my platform is still lynching you.
On February 26 2013 09:11 JungleJorge wrote:
On February 26 2013 09:05 Wade Fell wrote: Make me the mayor. I'm a smurf, but I'll offer you a platform that should definitely convince you that your vote is best used to elect me. My platform: 1) Lynching MilkSuckler. Fuck that guy. 2) I will use my vote aggressively to push town agenda throughout the game. I am not afraid to write cases and lay down my vote. I am a serious person.
Now before you flame me, let me turn you around with this question: do you believe milksuckler had that post prepared before the game started? of course he did. Everything about that screams "pre-prepared post" which is fine if he's town but he wrote that when he didn't know his alignment. He could quite easily be scum.
I believe you are right in both your assumptions, that milksuckler had that post prepared and that he could be scum. I also believe every other player may also be scum. Does milksuckler having a prepared post make him more likely scum? How so? If not why does he stand out to you as to being the best lynch?
On February 26 2013 09:06 Wade Fell wrote:
On February 26 2013 09:04 JungleJorge wrote: Mayor seems pretty irrelevant. I suggest we do day one as if there was no mayor, and in the end people vote for the towniest looking out of those who want to lynch your main suspect. What do you guys think?
This is literally a terrible idea
Would you care to expand on that? I'm trying to decide between you trying to bring in some activity or trying to get into my invisible poster list.
If you don't already understand why I said that based on my posts, there's nothing I can do to help you.
On February 26 2013 09:19 layabout wrote: lets kill wade for this:
On February 26 2013 09:08 Wade Fell wrote: I'm sorry there's a possibility you are a newer player, so I will explain thoroughly: The mayor has two votes, and the runner-up for mayor gains a power that's basically only useful to mafia. We can't just go voting townreads. We have to have people state clearly why they are voting who they are voting for, and potential mayoral candidates must clearly outline who they will use the lynch on and why. Anything less is bad.
Yes, ideally you vote in the towniest player as mayor, but someone can be townie and useless. Mayor determines today's lynch. The idea that Mayor is irrelevant is one you should cast out of your mind as soon as possible.
On the basis that it promotes a mafia agenda. The most important thing about the election is to get town into the two roles.
Do you disagree with the paragraphs overall, or are you just cherrypicking a single sentence? Because, after all, I'm calling for people to explain their votes and mayoral candidates to explain who they're lynching in addition to people voting townreads. I know you're a smart guy, layabout, so you're not misreading me here. You're intentionally misrepresenting my claims. Why are you doing so?
On February 26 2013 09:28 Wade Fell wrote: My new platform is killing Layabout
Read his posts
hes scum
I've read wade's posts and he's scum. You should read them too.
And this seems, well, fairly normal. Having abandoned RNG in a scummy fashion and martyred his election to mayor (scummy or pissy, your call), he pushes WoS and then decides I'm scum. But examine, for a moment, the post he has in his case against me. He largely quotes me being abrasive, interacting aggressively with others, and calling out layabout, and he says I'm scum. But all these quotes, all these posts, are posts he had at his fingertips when he initially attacked WoS! In fact, that last post about my platform being layabout was posted 30 minutes before his post attacking WoS.
So what we have here isn't a townie following the thread whose reads evolve with the time. This is a scum player grasping for someone to point the finger at, someone to blame. This falls perfectly in line with what DrH says here (link) when he quotes from Ver's guide. Ver's guide is telling us that town is earnest, town pushes their reads, town ideas follow a logical train of thought, whereas scum reasoning is warped by the need to support and protect scum teammates.
Prom is warped.
Elect me, and I will see him lynched. Failing that, my vote goes to those townies who would lynch him.
On February 26 2013 15:08 MilkSuckler wrote: This vet circle jerking has to stop now Being a vet does not guarantee your logic is sound; or that your shit smells better than mine and others.
For all you know I'm warbaby. How srs are you claiming a smurf is throwing around his vet status?
And legitimately, if there is an attitude that we should only read what vets post, it needs to stop, because you can't form a read on someone without listening to what they have to say. Currently I strongly believe there are three people who could be elected mayor. I'm perfectly comfortable engaging with, discussing with, and listening to the ideas of everyone in the town. In fact, it's how I find scum. If I was not perfectly clear about that, I apologise for my ambiguity.
On February 26 2013 15:08 MilkSuckler wrote: This vet circle jerking has to stop now Being a vet does not guarantee your logic is sound; or that your shit smells better than mine and others.
For all you know I'm warbaby. How srs are you claiming a smurf is throwing around his vet status?
Lol that made me laugh
You're def not warbaby - post structure doesnt match; but that makes you someone aware of the NMM games.
Even if you are not a vet; by comparing yourself to Dr.H/VE you are insinuating you are.
DrH and VE are just the people who IMO should be elected mayor. They're contributing to the town discussion. In your own way, you are as well, but I don't want to elect you mayor. I do want to elect myself mayor, so I fall into a category with those two. I'm not "insinuating" anything.
On February 26 2013 15:08 MilkSuckler wrote: This vet circle jerking has to stop now Being a vet does not guarantee your logic is sound; or that your shit smells better than mine and others.
For all you know I'm warbaby. How srs are you claiming a smurf is throwing around his vet status?
Lol that made me laugh
You're def not warbaby - post structure doesnt match; but that makes you someone aware of the NMM games.
Even if you are not a vet; by comparing yourself to Dr.H/VE you are insinuating you are.
Also for all you know I'm someone who ISN'T involved in the NMM games, and I looked up a newbie name JUST to throw you off.
On February 26 2013 15:41 Wade Fell wrote: And legitimately, if there is an attitude that we should only read what vets post, it needs to stop, because you can't form a read on someone without listening to what they have to say. Currently I strongly believe there are three people who could be elected mayor. I'm perfectly comfortable engaging with, discussing with, and listening to the ideas of everyone in the town. In fact, it's how I find scum. If I was not perfectly clear about that, I apologise for my ambiguity.
Thank you. This is what I meant in the first place.
Just fyi I don't believe such an attitude currently exists in this game, if for no reason other than the smurfs. If people are disagreeing with you it's not because you're black
On February 26 2013 16:22 MilkSuckler wrote: My problem is that I interpreted his actions as posting the prome casef was as if it was original content; and thus, was establishing himself to net mayor/pardoner votes. - Essentially a campaign pitch founded upon a sheep case. This may be a harsh assessment, and I am willing to re-read the post in question when I have a fresh head. (i.e. later tonight)
[QUOTE]On February 26 2013 14:43 Wade Fell wrote: Other posters have outlined why this is enormously scummy, /QUOTE]
zZz
[QUOTE]On February 26 2013 16:22 MilkSuckler wrote: I will give him credit that he has changed his tone somewhat since the whole "vet comments". [/quote]
lol this is like literally not a reason to ever give anyone a town read.
On February 26 2013 16:22 MilkSuckler wrote: My problem is that I interpreted his actions as posting the prome casef was as if it was original content; and thus, was establishing himself to net mayor/pardoner votes. - Essentially a campaign pitch founded upon a sheep case. This may be a harsh assessment, and I am willing to re-read the post in question when I have a fresh head. (i.e. later tonight)
On February 26 2013 16:31 Wade Fell wrote: wow I am the quotemaster
On February 26 2013 16:31 Wade Fell wrote:
On February 26 2013 16:22 MilkSuckler wrote: My problem is that I interpreted his actions as posting the prome casef was as if it was original content; and thus, was establishing himself to net mayor/pardoner votes. - Essentially a campaign pitch founded upon a sheep case. This may be a harsh assessment, and I am willing to re-read the post in question when I have a fresh head. (i.e. later tonight)
On February 26 2013 14:43 Wade Fell wrote: Other posters have outlined why this is enormously scummy,
zZz
On February 26 2013 16:22 MilkSuckler wrote: I will give him credit that he has changed his tone somewhat since the whole "vet comments".
lol this is like literally not a reason to ever give anyone a town read.
Did i give you a town read?
The answer is "no" I said I gave you some credit, nothing more, nothing less.
Nope JJ's post is absolutely terrible. "Oh hey guys i have this thing that will convince you but I'm not gonna say it cause I'm too busy eating babies, having risky sexual encounters, and perpetrating voter fraud in Eastern Europe" is not a legitimate thing you can say in Mafia.
I have finished preening my Komodo Dragon's feathers and am here to help.
Firstly, The only people in this thread making any sense are VE and DrH. Besides them and myself nobody should even be considered for the mayoral role.
Randombum's election idea is really, really bad. So bad, it jumps out-- but his thought process tells me it's not scummy.
I don't like layabout but I _do_ like his support for a prom lynch. Layabout is no longer my lynch target should I get elected: Promethelax is. Prom has cleverly attacked me in my absence so that this will look like an OMGUS, but it's not. Here's a rundown of prom's RNG discussion.
To begin: Prom suggests as his platform RNG (link), states he believes in it utterly (link) and fails to adequately address people questioning whether it will be pure RNG (link)
His next mention of RNG is at 09:57 when he makes this post:+ Show Spoiler +
On February 26 2013 09:57 Promethelax wrote: Okay, so RNG didn't create the discussion I wanted. Screw you guys.
On February 26 2013 09:20 geript wrote: It looks to me that the best person for mayor is someone who is willing to: A. put in the time to read the thread B. both make and evaluate other's cases C. is unlikely to be an early target for NK In this regard I would nominate myself as I am more likely to devote more time to reading (both filters and filter in the context of the thread as a whole) than anyone else. Additionally, I am relatively unknown which removes untoward bias for or against me due to previous games as well as making me a more impartial arbiter as it regards established players.
My lynch platform is: Scum read > hard/impossible to read > null read > town read
## vote geript
Except for the fact that you were killed N1 last game for the above reasons, by someone who is very likely smurfing in this game.
He focuses on the likelihood of a night kill on gerpit, he is too interested in night actions and not in the candidacy or the actual ideas which gerpit proposes. I'm not a fan of this post or WoS's mentality.
Vote me, screw random lynch. I'll lynch WoS.
Other posters have outlined why this is enormously scummy, but also note that he pivots onto WoS here. He votes for VE despite VE saying that prom is on his lynch list, then he martyrs, then he makes this post, 3 hours after his post attacking WoS, attacking me: + Show Spoiler +
On February 26 2013 09:09 Toadesstern wrote: okay actually screw that, I checked it. It's not pretty much exactly word for word, it IS word for word copy & paste. So it's not bullshit but supposed to be funny bullshit. Makes it decent and funny. From LIX: click me
##unvote
No shit Sherlock, thanks for admitting the humour in this. Vivax got it.
Funny but my platform is still lynching you.
On February 26 2013 09:11 JungleJorge wrote:
On February 26 2013 09:05 Wade Fell wrote: Make me the mayor. I'm a smurf, but I'll offer you a platform that should definitely convince you that your vote is best used to elect me. My platform: 1) Lynching MilkSuckler. Fuck that guy. 2) I will use my vote aggressively to push town agenda throughout the game. I am not afraid to write cases and lay down my vote. I am a serious person.
Now before you flame me, let me turn you around with this question: do you believe milksuckler had that post prepared before the game started? of course he did. Everything about that screams "pre-prepared post" which is fine if he's town but he wrote that when he didn't know his alignment. He could quite easily be scum.
I believe you are right in both your assumptions, that milksuckler had that post prepared and that he could be scum. I also believe every other player may also be scum. Does milksuckler having a prepared post make him more likely scum? How so? If not why does he stand out to you as to being the best lynch?
On February 26 2013 09:06 Wade Fell wrote:
On February 26 2013 09:04 JungleJorge wrote: Mayor seems pretty irrelevant. I suggest we do day one as if there was no mayor, and in the end people vote for the towniest looking out of those who want to lynch your main suspect. What do you guys think?
This is literally a terrible idea
Would you care to expand on that? I'm trying to decide between you trying to bring in some activity or trying to get into my invisible poster list.
If you don't already understand why I said that based on my posts, there's nothing I can do to help you.
On February 26 2013 09:19 layabout wrote: lets kill wade for this:
On February 26 2013 09:08 Wade Fell wrote: I'm sorry there's a possibility you are a newer player, so I will explain thoroughly: The mayor has two votes, and the runner-up for mayor gains a power that's basically only useful to mafia. We can't just go voting townreads. We have to have people state clearly why they are voting who they are voting for, and potential mayoral candidates must clearly outline who they will use the lynch on and why. Anything less is bad.
Yes, ideally you vote in the towniest player as mayor, but someone can be townie and useless. Mayor determines today's lynch. The idea that Mayor is irrelevant is one you should cast out of your mind as soon as possible.
On the basis that it promotes a mafia agenda. The most important thing about the election is to get town into the two roles.
Do you disagree with the paragraphs overall, or are you just cherrypicking a single sentence? Because, after all, I'm calling for people to explain their votes and mayoral candidates to explain who they're lynching in addition to people voting townreads. I know you're a smart guy, layabout, so you're not misreading me here. You're intentionally misrepresenting my claims. Why are you doing so?
On February 26 2013 09:28 Wade Fell wrote: My new platform is killing Layabout
Read his posts
hes scum
I've read wade's posts and he's scum. You should read them too.
And this seems, well, fairly normal. Having abandoned RNG in a scummy fashion and martyred his election to mayor (scummy or pissy, your call), he pushes WoS and then decides I'm scum. But examine, for a moment, the post he has in his case against me. He largely quotes me being abrasive, interacting aggressively with others, and calling out layabout, and he says I'm scum. But all these quotes, all these posts, are posts he had at his fingertips when he initially attacked WoS! In fact, that last post about my platform being layabout was posted 30 minutes before his post attacking WoS.
So what we have here isn't a townie following the thread whose reads evolve with the time. This is a scum player grasping for someone to point the finger at, someone to blame. This falls perfectly in line with what DrH says here (link) when he quotes from Ver's guide. Ver's guide is telling us that town is earnest, town pushes their reads, town ideas follow a logical train of thought, whereas scum reasoning is warped by the need to support and protect scum teammates.
Prom is warped.
Elect me, and I will see him lynched. Failing that, my vote goes to those townies who would lynch him.
On February 26 2013 19:10 Aquanim wrote: EBWOP: Are you saying you think JJ is scum? What does his post being terrible mean in terms of his alignment?
If I thought JJ was scum he'd be part of my mayoral platform. His post is just shit. People shitpost all the time. I refuse to engage his argument unless he makes it.
On February 26 2013 19:09 Aquanim wrote: mkay, thanks.
On February 26 2013 18:52 Wade Fell wrote: Nope JJ's post is absolutely terrible. "Oh hey guys i have this thing that will convince you but I'm not gonna say it cause I'm too busy eating babies, having risky sexual encounters, and perpetrating voter fraud in Eastern Europe" is not a legitimate thing you can say in Mafia.
Are you saying you think JJ is scum? What does his post being terrible mean?
And on Prom, do you think his posturing over RNG is necessarily a scum move? Suggesting a RNG lynch while knowing full well it's a terrible idea is a gambit I've seen before, and "gambit" was the first thing I thought when I saw it. Not sure whether people who did it previously were scum or not though. Still, I don't see how it couldn't be town-motivated, as a method to create discussion.
His "case" on you is frankly pretty bad. That being said, I don't see how going back and reading the thread and noticing something you didn't before is scummy as such.
The way he postured over RNG (which was incredibly mildly-- he mentions it only 3 times) and retreats from it, then flails around for a scumread, show a clear scum mindset. Look at his case on me, which includes quotes he LITERALLY HAD ALREADY QUOTED when speaking with me.
You don't see how it could be scum motivated? Look at how he scrambles for scumreads, look at his case on me, it's not the result of rereading, it's the result of reinterpreting.
His case on me isn't bad (well it is bad, but the point is), his case on me is scummy. The point isn't what the case says, it's the mindset the case _reveals_.
His case was a prod, a gesture, an attempt to find a foothold of a wagon he could cling to. Look how he martyrs after his rng is shot down! look how he claims it was "just for discussion" when in fact he didn't press people when the disagreed with him and he made no attempt to generate discussion.
There's a theory that prom was trying to generate discussion. That's the theory he's put out there. But nothing he did about RNG indicates he was trying to generate discuss, Did he respond to his critics? Did he shoot them down? Did he get into arguments with them and force them to take positions? NO! What Prom did is he backed down and complained, he made it look like he had tried something and failed, like he tried to help town but wasn't good enough. He made no effort to raise a discussion. He just said "RNG" a couple times and DIPPED and hoped people would think of him as a contributor. And when the pressure was on he revised his ideas without a clear logic train that any townie leaves in his post.
Look aquanim I know you're not a grush or an axero so let me lay it out for you. If Prom was really trying to raise discussion with his rng as he claims, he'd have actually gotten into discussions with people. Any townie would naturally get arguing and get involved as people disagreed with him, especially one who was taking a position specifically for the purpose of starting discussions. A town Prom, if he did this, would have a bunch of posts, quote chains of him discussing RNG with haters, drumming up support, etc, and forcing scum to take stances. That's what a town player bringing up discussion looks like. Prom does NOT do this. Prom is scum.
Look I'm not saying that Prom didn't discuss rng enough, I'm saying that Prom claims his goal was to discuss RNG, and Promethelax did not in fact ever discuss rng.
EPT
