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On March 07 2013 13:15 Aquanim wrote:So this is Macho Man's case right? This feels pretty superficial to me. There are basically only two points - first, that Glurio went and summarised everything Vayesh said (which I admit is easy for scum to do, but I don't see direct scum motivation) and second his sheeping of Vayesh (again, easy for scum to hide behind but still). I am not sure what you expect out of a case? Your efforts on OO had ?3? points mildly expanded.
A case is made to bandwagon support for a lynch typically by identifying scummy behaviour. I think this case succeeded in that and I do not think the quotes were cherry picked either. It demonstrates examples you, yourself admit can be interpreted as scummy.
The rest of Glurio's posts are covered with a blanket "overall lack of activity and concern for the lynch" which is again true but unfortunately describes about half of the players in this game. Are you able to summarise the remainder of his filter differently? I thought "overall lack of activity and concern for the lynch" is a sound synopsis.
Glurio hasn't contributed much but this case isn't enough to convince me. In fact, this reads as a pretty half-hearted attempt by a player with IamP's experience. I have been iffy with IamP all game. As scum, he needs to pick on bad townies - of which Glurio certainly applies. However, because I agreed with the case, and it came at a time in the thread whether direction was needed; I thought it was a town motivated post to make.
I havnt seen an IamP case before though (only played 1 game with him) so dont feel confident making the statement you are. Will stick with a town read until proven guilty.
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On March 07 2013 12:57 MilkSuckler wrote:
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I dont know what to make of randombum; if you think a guy is town, the correct course of action is to identify someone scummier.
But, I would have liked if he extrapolated somewhat on his claim that glurio is town (considering the heat he is under)
I don't get the question? I say somebody is not as scummy as others then post a case against somebody else in the same post. If it wasn't obvious I think jcarl is scummier than glurio.
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People Mocsta has wanted to lynch:
ObviousOne
On February 27 2013 11:04 MilkSuckler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 10:59 ObviousOne wrote:
Are you seriously taking everything I said in the first few hours of the game as Gospel truth, guys? If you are, I'm sorry. I can't help you fix your read of me because I'm already dead if that's the case. My problem stems from Geript. I decided to read his filter from NMM37 and then noticed your filter. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395714&user=263107In that game as a replacement SERIAL KILLER...you were of more benefit to town in a 12hr period.. then you have been to this game in 24hrs.. That speaks volumes to me: The play shows a sharp contrast as well... pair this with the Shadowing Thread where your insight shared with VE again is widly deviating from your play this game. Randombum pieces it all together very well.. you look interested, but there is no substance. SCUM.
Almost all the vets. INCLUDING HIMSELF. Only two left alive though....
On February 28 2013 10:32 MilkSuckler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 10:06 WaveofShadow wrote:
Smurfing definitely too hard. And geript was right I see. Good on him I guess.
Alright so two words have been going through my head since the successful lynch...
TOO EASY.
I know that we're not supposed to think this way but isn't Prom a vet mafia player? Did he really think a fake discussion about RNG was going to get stuff going and create confusion? (Maybe he thought the newbies in the game would contribute to it somehow?)
Trying to look good way too hard and voting the first townie-looking guy he saw into office then disappearing for good?
I don't like it one bit, and now I have to sift through the clusterfuck at the end of D1 to try and learn anything. What the fuck was wrong with all of you?
One of Prome problems was that he caught my smurf the night before the game started. We had a pre-game chat, and he signaled his desire to unleash his 'awesome' plan. So in some aspects he had to follow through regardless of alignment. His other problem was that he openly voiced he would be absent for a majority of Day1 cycle. I can easily see the scum qt using this as a situation to bus him - if required. The key would be that someone had to lead the case. This leaves:Toad, VE, Dr.H, MilkSucker, Wade Fell ... I would think one of these is scumShow nested quote +I think Toad is unlikely to have cast *THAT* much suspicion early game.
I think my case showed the most thought process behind the analysis.. i think that makes me unlikely to be scum.
I think Wade Fell would not have walked through the points with Aquanim in as much detail.. making him less unlikely to be scum.. however, because of the mayor situation he could have seen it as a win-win (bus prome and gain town leadership points)
VE is interesting.. he followed on after Toad (which even though came early game, could be a guy seeing an opportunity).. To be honest, my main problems with VE revolve around his end of cycle play.. its almost as if he was building up to NOT lynch prome.. this is a problem.. i dont know him well enough to know if this is part of this normal play.
Dr.H is interesting too..his no bullshit approach I think is indicative of town... but several seem to doubt him,.. i am not sure if its because they think he is too abrasive. (so personal dislike).. or because I have wool over my eyes.. I will need to re-read him. ======= If someone needs to be scrutinsed this cycle, I would lead on VE. especially after his sheep of toad again to list 3 points to consider grush as scum (and the 3 points were all null indicative) *back to work.. be back later*
jcarlsoniv
On February 28 2013 12:35 MilkSuckler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 12:06 JungleJorge wrote:
I've looked into Testsubject and I'm leaning town. Looked into Jcarl and I'm leaning scum on him, but not with the same confidence of the other 2 I pointed. Some assistance would be appreciated on JC. There are quite a few aspects of carl play I dont like. Hes definitely choosing to contribute on issues not dominant in the thread at the time.. but then.. the contributions are just pointing things out.. there is no detailed thought process. In short, I do not find him townie, and his demeanor regarding prome is suspect. However... his filter has strengthened my read on Vivax and my theory that prome pushed his meta defense on Grush, to give a meta defense on Vivax.
Aquanim
On February 28 2013 16:28 MilkSuckler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 16:18 Aquanim wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
I want to know specifically how you think RNG discussion can be beneficial to town discussion, considering that was a major reason of you not accepting the case (initially)
Lemme lay out a possible scenario. - Promethelax runs for mayor on the platform of a RNG lynch
- Someone calls bullshit
On February 26 2013 09:19 JungleJorge wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 09:12 Promethelax wrote:On February 26 2013 09:09 MilkSuckler wrote:On February 26 2013 09:07 Promethelax wrote:
1. Vote for me, vote for RNG. I have a 1 in five shot at lynching scum and it will be hilariously awesome,
You gonna include yourself in that RNG dear If I am allowed to lynch myself day one. Yes. I believe in true RNG. Isn't that retarded as both alignments?
- Promethelax tells them they're stupid
On February 26 2013 09:30 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 09:19 JungleJorge wrote:On February 26 2013 09:12 Promethelax wrote:On February 26 2013 09:09 MilkSuckler wrote:On February 26 2013 09:07 Promethelax wrote:
1. Vote for me, vote for RNG. I have a 1 in five shot at lynching scum and it will be hilariously awesome,
You gonna include yourself in that RNG dear If I am allowed to lynch myself day one. Yes. I believe in true RNG. Isn't that retarded as both alignments? Yes? But the idea of a random lynch is good. You should be able to see why. Assuming you don't suck, which I'm assuming.
- Entering the realm of hypothesis where town prom did this: some scum attacks prom for making a bad case
On Feburary 30 2013 26:04 Some imaginary scum wroteShow nested quote +Yes? But the idea of a random lynch is good. You should be able to see why. Assuming you don't suck, which I'm assuming. That post is terrible and wrong u scum bro lolol
- Prom nails them for making a shitty case
On February 26 2013 09:07 Imaginary Town Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On Feburary 30 2013 26:04 Some imaginary scum wroteYes? But the idea of a random lynch is good. You should be able to see why. Assuming you don't suck, which I'm assuming. That post is terrible and wrong u scum bro lolol yeah the post was stupid but how does it have scum mentality? your case is bad and a townie wouldn't make it no u scum. bro.
tl;dr - baiting scum to attack you (in a way which will expose them as scum) by making an easily attackable post is a conceivable town tactic. ##Vig: AquanimWrong answer The conversation I had with Prome pre-game actually supports your hypothesis. the problem is: promes actions in-game....Which conveniently you quoted for me already  Show nested quote +Yes? But the idea of a random lynch is good. You should be able to see why. Assuming you don't suck, which I'm assuming. Let me bring to the fore points I raised in my case of Prome Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 13:55 MilkSuckler wrote:
(1) Conjecture: I have PM correspondance with prome (pre-LX) that state explicitly he is against RNG as it is both anti-town and stupid play.
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(2) Track History: Both Nomination & NMM37 contained proponents of RNG. They were both scum. Though this does not guarantee Prome as scum; it does suggest scum are more willing to run with it than town.
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(1) Outcome: Mentions the RNG play didn't generate the discussion he wanted. Yet responds to people with "pro-town gems" like: "you should be able to see why. Assuming you don't suck". There is no effort in his filter to prompt further discourse; and when others critically query him, he immediately shuts them down with insults.
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(2) The plan: Provides details of the RNG plan to unveil scum - because only scum would support RNG. Ironically scum proponent: Djodref, took a similar stance in Nomination mafia. This is a very convenient stance any RNG proponent can outline; without dispute. The real question is whether prome went out of his way to facilitate discussion and identify RNG supporters. The short answer is: no"
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(2) RNG: You can include RNG as a sudden shift as it lost momentum. The whole play read like a farce with zero commitment.
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His RNG behaviour is classic scum mentality; and I believe if a townie ever pushed for RNG it would be performed with a lot more transparency.
There is no fucking way a townie goes about achieving a trap like that the way prome went about it. I actually have respect for your play; and know you pride yourself on picking up bullshit like what Prome did. That you turn a blind eye (repeatedly)... well... there is nothing to say
Hassybaby
On February 28 2013 21:30 MilkSuckler wrote:
If a vig is out there.
My new recommendation is to have a good look through the 1 page filter of hassybaby.
This guy has shown zero interest in the game responding only if addressed
Is super passive aggressive in his limited posts,
And is never trying to develop any ideas
Lastly this fucker openly campaigned for pardoner... Saying feel free to shoot me *if* I use the role....
Please consider hassybaby as a legitimate vig target.
Restraining Order
On March 01 2013 02:37 MilkSuckler wrote:LOL.. Firstly.. how the fuck do you have a bigger filter than me.. must be the pre-game My thoughts actually changed two or three times while I fleshed out my response - hopefully its still coherent. (1) After checking the votes between 60min and Final.. I can see why you think the last few ppl that swapped on you, voted to ensure you were not pardoner. (2) Most of the vets in this game have played self-centric; so I wouldnt hold credence in their words influencing the whole of town (certainly some.. but not all 25 players) For reference of votes: + Show Spoiler +60min to goVisceraEyes (7): VisceraEyes, Promethelax, VisceraEyes, Toadesstern, ObviousOne, glurio, Hassybaby, VisceraEyes, The Macho Man, Restraining Order, TestSubject893, grush57, randombum, geript, WaveofShadow 10min to goVisceraEyes (9): VisceraEyes, Promethelax, VisceraEyes, Toadesstern, ObviousOne, glurio, Hassybaby, VisceraEyes, The Macho Man, Restraining Order, TestSubject893, grush57, randombum, geript, WaveofShadow, VisceraEyes, The Milkman, DoctorHelvetica Final CountVisceraEyes (10): VisceraEyes, Promethelax, VisceraEyes, Toadesstern, ObviousOne, glurio, Hassybaby, VisceraEyes, The Macho Man, Restraining Order, TestSubject893, grush57, randombum, geript, WaveofShadow, VisceraEyes, The Milkman, DoctorHelvetica, Vivax, Wade Fell Now if this is all purely VCA.. i dont know how you go about ascertaining scum from inactives... I now presume this was the whole point of the post (if so.. apologies, it completely went over my head first read) - i.e. discuss to determine which is scum, which is inactive.
(written after writing reads). Most of the below is pretty wishy-washy.. i guess if you didnt realise, most of these ppl haven't been on my agenda this cycle.. If I am around Day2, I will put energy into strengthening my reads.
Vivax: Null (from red) - Im actually liking his recent activity.. sure its a touch shallow but i didnt mind it.. subject to change hassybaby: Red - already suggested for vig to check this guy out Macho Man: Null (From red)- I really want to lynch this guy.. hes really rubbing me the wrong way... but im giving him benefit of the doubt for being in two games (and prioritizing the other game over this one).. subject to change Restraining Order: Red - i really dont like this guy from the start.. done nothing since that I can recall vividly randombum: Green (From null)- I dont remember what this guy did most of the game, until he called me out on aquanim.. I liked the way he did it.. I know scum can defend a town read easily.. but i liked his approach (just like milkman) wave: Im stuck with this guy.. i would love to say bad town.. but.. that campaign for pardoner was interesting.. I would need to give this guy a dedicated filter dive to be certain.. will go bad town for time being.
JungleJorge
On March 01 2013 08:59 MilkSuckler wrote:
JJ is a common factor and needs to GO
Just in case you forgot, Toadestern
On March 01 2013 15:17 MilkSuckler wrote:
ok.. i given up on grush..
i seen enough on toad to go ahead with that lynch full steam
Layabout
On March 01 2013 19:34 MilkSuckler wrote:Firstly, much better post than your last one. I would still prefer more 'exploration'; and more of a conclusion - as this seems to be a feeler post. I find a couple things interesting here too:
p50; layabout decides to support the prome lynch, and then leaves his options by throwing some town pointers on prome -> which is where the hassy reference ties in. Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 11:55 Promethelax wrote:
You k ow hassy at all? Would he vanish like that as town? If anything, this makes hassy more likely to be town (unfortunately) ... i.e. prome sniffed an easy target to push as scum.
p53; Dunno if the stuff with BH is "not game relevant".... I have only seen selfish motivations for BH so far - not explicitly town motivations.. so i dont rule out him being a rouge scum (i.e. everyone gives him some hate for distancing).. I figured if he was scum it would be easier to ascertain later cycles, so left him be. As for the quote: how stupid is that (in my opinion).. chaos bear requires a replacement and has zero posts.. how do you do consider him? As for the lurker lynch comment, that could easily be him defending himself. So in short, its a complete fluff post... and the tie with hassy I take more as a pretend-to-contribute moment, than, trying to save scum buddy hassy. [ I admit this is biased by me saying hassy more likely to be town from p50] It actually also reads as if he has no qualms with a hassybaby shooting....
p115; Now this post rang massive alarm bells for me when I read it the first time. The defense is: hassy won pardoner before and didnt use it... how does any of that apply to this game? Translation: when hassy is town he *CAN* be trustworthy in instances. How does this go towards identifying *THIS GAME* that hassy is town... it dosent.. so why throw it in there?
In short: I can not see a town motivation for unveiling this information.If layabout has a town read on hassy; there has been no progression in his filter to corroborate this. This is exacerbated by the chaos reference lurker lynch p53 reference, where he seems to have no issue with a hassy death => can not have a town read. As stated before: the post does nothing to devine the alignment of Hassy and also reads as a discredit on aquanim.So then.. why unveil this information? My gut says: he was aware of the game info (prob played in it) and took it as a cheap way to contribute and make it look like he is paying attention to the intricacies of the game. There is no town motivation for this.. I am happy to start/join a layabout lynch *IF* toad doesnt get traction.
Chezinu and Geript
On March 03 2013 01:46 MilkSuckler wrote:No bites? Lets try again Show nested quote +On March 03 2013 00:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
lol it's just so different i mean i'd really rather lynch geript
I am happy to lynch Chezinu/Geript over consecutive cycles, as the cases are not associations. The reason I would lynch Geript > Chezinu, is because: Chezinu already used his day-vig shot. Geript, no idea what role he possesses.@ALLThoughts? - Vote exodus to Geript?
Randombum and TheMachoMan
On March 06 2013 10:34 MilkSuckler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 10:16 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I'm curious.
You say you agree, and yet you don't agree with WoS's opinion that I'm top scum. In fact, you even defended me during the day cycle.
May I ask why you don't hate me like everyone else does? I already explained my thoughts on you before.. I dont see why a scum would hard defend a 100% dead Chezinu (and it was obvious there was no coming back from him).. Townies stick up for scum all the time; that doesn't make you scum. For me: You are in the bad townie category, and I have no interest in furthering your lynch. Having said that I wouldnt defend you either - that is your job; if someone is pushing for your lynch, my responsibility as a townie would be to find a better alternative. (See below) ============ As I stated prior, Randombum ticks all the boxes for scum play (including, the slowly decaying thread contributions to signify bored VT) TheMachoMan has not lived up to his promise of increasing post count (as this is now his sole game). His contributions are mainly +1 (e.g. He plus +1'd me on Restraining Order). I am satisfied with him as my 2nd lynch choice.
WaveofShadow
On March 07 2013 09:37 MilkSuckler wrote:
Macho, want to lynch WoS for process of elimination?
Hes now beyond bad townie, he is incessantly walking that fine line of trolling. How does that help town?
Lynch the fucker.
Glurio
On March 07 2013 11:53 MilkSuckler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 11:47 TestSubject893 wrote:
Well see that's the thing, I don't know what I think of you yet, I'm still working that out right now. I had you squarely as town before, but you changed that for me. I think we've about hit the end of where this discussion is productive though. I Still personally dont see how that one action changes everything.. if anything.. my thought process around the whole event has been transparent, which is not conducive to scum play. If you think I was purposely tricking people, fine.. but think about it. its 2 scum, 12 town.. I still think its too early for scum to be sticking their necks out like what I did. But yes.. I agree with you, there is no point continuing this discussion. Im supporting my stance from yesterday.. Lynch Glurio
People are called out multiple times as well throughout the thread, hell I didn't even include Prom. That is almost EVERYONE in the thread Mocsta has suggested we lynch. Throwing around suspicion at absolutely everyone he possibly can all the time doesn't exactly strike me as town behaviour.
There are a few more gut things that bother me about Mocsta but his filter is just so godawful to go through right now I just can't do it anymore. Hell you can add filter occlusion to the list. His play reminds me VERY STGRONGLY of his play from NMM 37.
Scummy.
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Never mind I didn't understand the question because it was phrased oddly. The real question was the second sentence not the first. In which case, I don't necessarily think he is not scummy, just I think jcarl is scummier.
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On March 07 2013 13:28 MilkSuckler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 13:15 Aquanim wrote:So this is Macho Man's case right? This feels pretty superficial to me. There are basically only two points - first, that Glurio went and summarised everything Vayesh said (which I admit is easy for scum to do, but I don't see direct scum motivation) and second his sheeping of Vayesh (again, easy for scum to hide behind but still). I am not sure what you expect out of a case? Your efforts on OO had ?3? points mildly expanded.
That was, what, three hours into the game?
Anyway that's not the point. My point is that I don't think these two particular points make Glurio scum necessarily. Townies sometimes choose to contribute in ways that are stereotypically scummy. I'm not complaining about the effort put in, I'm complaining that I don't think these are super-indicative of scum.
Which is not to say that I'm wedded to the idea that Glurio is town, just that these points aren't convincing enough on their own.
A case is made to bandwagon support for a lynch typically by identifying scummy behaviour. I think this case succeeded in that and I do not think the quotes were cherry picked either. It demonstrates examples you, yourself admit can be interpreted as scummy. Show nested quote +The rest of Glurio's posts are covered with a blanket "overall lack of activity and concern for the lynch" which is again true but unfortunately describes about half of the players in this game. Are you able to summarise the remainder of his filter differently? I thought "overall lack of activity and concern for the lynch" is a sound synopsis.
Yes it adequately defines Glurio. Seeing as how it describes HALF OF THE PLAYERS adequately it's not scummy enough to convince me that Glurio is scum.
tl;dr This case does not convince me. I would welcome a convincing case.
On March 07 2013 13:27 The Macho Man wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 13:15 Aquanim wrote:So this is Macho Man's case right? This feels pretty superficial to me. There are basically only two points - first, that Glurio went and summarised everything Vayesh said (which I admit is easy for scum to do, but I don't see direct scum motivation) and second his sheeping of Vayesh (again, easy for scum to hide behind but still). The rest of Glurio's posts are covered with a blanket "overall lack of activity and concern for the lynch" which is again true but unfortunately describes about half of the players in this game. Glurio hasn't contributed much but this case isn't enough to convince me. In fact, this reads as a pretty half-hearted attempt by a player with IamP's experience. maybe you should i dont know look at my past cases... that i have made in other games.......
I may do that.
i dont know how anyone can read glurios filter and possibly think he is town. He is totally disconnected and hides behind dead player that is fucking scummy.
Now the bolded is an interesting point and one I will explore further. Unfortunately I think a number of townies are probably disconnected from the game following Blazinghand's one-man "wagon of justice" driving for the last two days but still.
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On March 07 2013 13:41 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 13:28 MilkSuckler wrote:On March 07 2013 13:15 Aquanim wrote:So this is Macho Man's case right? This feels pretty superficial to me. There are basically only two points - first, that Glurio went and summarised everything Vayesh said (which I admit is easy for scum to do, but I don't see direct scum motivation) and second his sheeping of Vayesh (again, easy for scum to hide behind but still). I am not sure what you expect out of a case? Your efforts on OO had ?3? points mildly expanded. That was, what, three hours into the game? Anyway that's not the point. My point is that I don't think these two particular points make Glurio scum necessarily. Townies sometimes choose to contribute in ways that are stereotypically scummy. I'm not complaining about the effort put in, I'm complaining that I don't think these are super-indicative of scum. Which is not to say that I'm wedded to the idea that Glurio is town, just that these points aren't convincing enough on their own. Show nested quote +A case is made to bandwagon support for a lynch typically by identifying scummy behaviour. I think this case succeeded in that and I do not think the quotes were cherry picked either. It demonstrates examples you, yourself admit can be interpreted as scummy. The rest of Glurio's posts are covered with a blanket "overall lack of activity and concern for the lynch" which is again true but unfortunately describes about half of the players in this game. Are you able to summarise the remainder of his filter differently? I thought "overall lack of activity and concern for the lynch" is a sound synopsis. Yes it adequately defines Glurio. Seeing as how it describes HALF OF THE PLAYERS adequately it's not scummy enough to convince me that Glurio is scum. tl;dr This case does not convince me. I would welcome a convincing case. Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 13:27 The Macho Man wrote:On March 07 2013 13:15 Aquanim wrote:So this is Macho Man's case right? This feels pretty superficial to me. There are basically only two points - first, that Glurio went and summarised everything Vayesh said (which I admit is easy for scum to do, but I don't see direct scum motivation) and second his sheeping of Vayesh (again, easy for scum to hide behind but still). The rest of Glurio's posts are covered with a blanket "overall lack of activity and concern for the lynch" which is again true but unfortunately describes about half of the players in this game. Glurio hasn't contributed much but this case isn't enough to convince me. In fact, this reads as a pretty half-hearted attempt by a player with IamP's experience. maybe you should i dont know look at my past cases... that i have made in other games....... I may do that. Show nested quote +
i dont know how anyone can read glurios filter and possibly think he is town. He is totally disconnected and hides behind dead player that is fucking scummy.
Now the bolded is an interesting point and one I will explore further. Unfortunately I think a number of townies are probably disconnected from the game following Blazinghand's one-man "wagon of justice" driving for the last two days but still.
show me the other players that make a huge useless summary post and hide behind dead people.
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Oh look randombum, you're starting to think like a townie! A nice change of pace.
@Aquanim: What are your opinions of randombum's case on me?
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On March 07 2013 13:47 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Oh look randombum, you're starting to think like a townie! A nice change of pace.
@Aquanim: What are your opinions of randombum's case on me?
That's it? Do you intend to defend yourself at all?
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On March 07 2013 13:45 The Macho Man wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 13:41 Aquanim wrote:On March 07 2013 13:28 MilkSuckler wrote:On March 07 2013 13:15 Aquanim wrote:So this is Macho Man's case right? This feels pretty superficial to me. There are basically only two points - first, that Glurio went and summarised everything Vayesh said (which I admit is easy for scum to do, but I don't see direct scum motivation) and second his sheeping of Vayesh (again, easy for scum to hide behind but still). I am not sure what you expect out of a case? Your efforts on OO had ?3? points mildly expanded. That was, what, three hours into the game? Anyway that's not the point. My point is that I don't think these two particular points make Glurio scum necessarily. Townies sometimes choose to contribute in ways that are stereotypically scummy. I'm not complaining about the effort put in, I'm complaining that I don't think these are super-indicative of scum. Which is not to say that I'm wedded to the idea that Glurio is town, just that these points aren't convincing enough on their own. A case is made to bandwagon support for a lynch typically by identifying scummy behaviour. I think this case succeeded in that and I do not think the quotes were cherry picked either. It demonstrates examples you, yourself admit can be interpreted as scummy. The rest of Glurio's posts are covered with a blanket "overall lack of activity and concern for the lynch" which is again true but unfortunately describes about half of the players in this game. Are you able to summarise the remainder of his filter differently? I thought "overall lack of activity and concern for the lynch" is a sound synopsis. Yes it adequately defines Glurio. Seeing as how it describes HALF OF THE PLAYERS adequately it's not scummy enough to convince me that Glurio is scum. tl;dr This case does not convince me. I would welcome a convincing case. On March 07 2013 13:27 The Macho Man wrote:On March 07 2013 13:15 Aquanim wrote:So this is Macho Man's case right? This feels pretty superficial to me. There are basically only two points - first, that Glurio went and summarised everything Vayesh said (which I admit is easy for scum to do, but I don't see direct scum motivation) and second his sheeping of Vayesh (again, easy for scum to hide behind but still). The rest of Glurio's posts are covered with a blanket "overall lack of activity and concern for the lynch" which is again true but unfortunately describes about half of the players in this game. Glurio hasn't contributed much but this case isn't enough to convince me. In fact, this reads as a pretty half-hearted attempt by a player with IamP's experience. maybe you should i dont know look at my past cases... that i have made in other games....... I may do that.
i dont know how anyone can read glurios filter and possibly think he is town. He is totally disconnected and hides behind dead player that is fucking scummy.
Now the bolded is an interesting point and one I will explore further. Unfortunately I think a number of townies are probably disconnected from the game following Blazinghand's one-man "wagon of justice" driving for the last two days but still. show me the other players that make a huge useless summary post and hide behind dead people.
I said half of the players have a lack of activity and concern for the lynch. Which would be... you, Grush, Glurio, TestSubject, jcarlsoniv, randombum, ObviousOne, Layabout, WaveofShadow, Vivax and JungleJorge. And me too, at least yesterday. Discounting Mocsta because his filter is literally a seventh of the thread and DoctorHelvetica because he ran for office day 1 and started pushing geript.
Town doesn't have this in the bag, guys.
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On March 07 2013 13:47 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Oh look randombum, you're starting to think like a townie! A nice change of pace.
@Aquanim: What are your opinions of randombum's case on me?
Nice de-lurk, I'm more interesting in your opinion on my case on you.
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On March 07 2013 13:40 WaveofShadow wrote:
People are called out multiple times as well throughout the thread, hell I didn't even include Prom. That is almost EVERYONE in the thread Mocsta has suggested we lynch. Throwing around suspicion at absolutely everyone he possibly can all the time doesn't exactly strike me as town behaviour.
There are a few more gut things that bother me about Mocsta but his filter is just so godawful to go through right now I just can't do it anymore. Hell you can add filter occlusion to the list. His play reminds me VERY STGRONGLY of his play from NMM 37.
Scummy.
(1) This is retarded.
If you manage to secure a mislynch of this, you need to look closely at your reads. Everything you highlighted indicates a townie that gives a shit about the game... not a scum player.
Instead of looking at who is accused, why dont you read the reasoning. A lot of is sound (based on what we knew at the time).. the development of thought process is transparent.
Frankly, I am getting pissed off you keep refering to my scum game in NMM37. The only thing that is common is activity which is not an indicator for me.
My agenda is completely different from NMM37, that game, i tunneled one guy as an excuse to contribute.
If anything, your post makes me confirmed town, if you want to put so much emphasis into meta.
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On March 07 2013 13:41 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 13:28 MilkSuckler wrote:On March 07 2013 13:15 Aquanim wrote:So this is Macho Man's case right? This feels pretty superficial to me. There are basically only two points - first, that Glurio went and summarised everything Vayesh said (which I admit is easy for scum to do, but I don't see direct scum motivation) and second his sheeping of Vayesh (again, easy for scum to hide behind but still). I am not sure what you expect out of a case? Your efforts on OO had ?3? points mildly expanded. That was, what, three hours into the game? Anyway that's not the point. My point is that I don't think these two particular points make Glurio scum necessarily. Townies sometimes choose to contribute in ways that are stereotypically scummy. I'm not complaining about the effort put in, I'm complaining that I don't think these are super-indicative of scum. Which is not to say that I'm wedded to the idea that Glurio is town, just that these points aren't convincing enough on their own. Show nested quote +A case is made to bandwagon support for a lynch typically by identifying scummy behaviour. I think this case succeeded in that and I do not think the quotes were cherry picked either. It demonstrates examples you, yourself admit can be interpreted as scummy. The rest of Glurio's posts are covered with a blanket "overall lack of activity and concern for the lynch" which is again true but unfortunately describes about half of the players in this game. Are you able to summarise the remainder of his filter differently? I thought "overall lack of activity and concern for the lynch" is a sound synopsis. Yes it adequately defines Glurio. Seeing as how it describes HALF OF THE PLAYERS adequately it's not scummy enough to convince me that Glurio is scum. tl;dr This case does not convince me. I would welcome a convincing case. Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 13:27 The Macho Man wrote:On March 07 2013 13:15 Aquanim wrote:So this is Macho Man's case right? This feels pretty superficial to me. There are basically only two points - first, that Glurio went and summarised everything Vayesh said (which I admit is easy for scum to do, but I don't see direct scum motivation) and second his sheeping of Vayesh (again, easy for scum to hide behind but still). The rest of Glurio's posts are covered with a blanket "overall lack of activity and concern for the lynch" which is again true but unfortunately describes about half of the players in this game. Glurio hasn't contributed much but this case isn't enough to convince me. In fact, this reads as a pretty half-hearted attempt by a player with IamP's experience. maybe you should i dont know look at my past cases... that i have made in other games....... I may do that. Show nested quote +
i dont know how anyone can read glurios filter and possibly think he is town. He is totally disconnected and hides behind dead player that is fucking scummy.
Now the bolded is an interesting point and one I will explore further. Unfortunately I think a number of townies are probably disconnected from the game following Blazinghand's one-man "wagon of justice" driving for the last two days but still.
OK, i like the response here, and you raise valid points. I will write a case on Glurio when I get home tonight and address your (valid) concerns, say 8 hrs? Its too hard to write cases at work :sob:
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On March 07 2013 13:52 randombum wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 13:47 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Oh look randombum, you're starting to think like a townie! A nice change of pace.
@Aquanim: What are your opinions of randombum's case on me? Nice de-lurk, I'm more interesting in your opinion on my case on you.
Really? That's unfortunate, because I'm more interested in Aqua's.
Patience, young padawan.
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On March 07 2013 13:47 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Oh look randombum, you're starting to think like a townie! A nice change of pace.
@Aquanim: What are your opinions of randombum's case on me?
I'd prefer to hear what you have to say about it first.
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I'm heading to bed. Jcarl's apparent indifference to randombum's case against him is enough for me to want to put my vote on him now instead of when I wake up.
##Vote: jcarlsoniv
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On March 07 2013 13:56 TestSubject893 wrote:
I'm heading to bed. Jcarl's apparent indifference to randombum's case against him is enough for me to want to put my vote on him now instead of when I wake up.
##Vote: jcarlsoniv
I'm indifferent because it's a mislynch. I'm not going to flail around like geript did.
On March 07 2013 13:55 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 13:47 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Oh look randombum, you're starting to think like a townie! A nice change of pace.
@Aquanim: What are your opinions of randombum's case on me? I'd prefer to hear what you have to say about it first.
No, that's not how it works. I want to know what you think of his CASE. That's all the information you should need to have an opinion about it. On the other hand, what you say could very well contribute to what I have to say.
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Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 13:55 Aquanim wrote:On March 07 2013 13:47 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Oh look randombum, you're starting to think like a townie! A nice change of pace.
@Aquanim: What are your opinions of randombum's case on me? I'd prefer to hear what you have to say about it first. No, that's not how it works. I want to know what you think of his CASE. That's all the information you should need to have an opinion about it. On the other hand, what you say could very well contribute to what I have to say.
It contains some interesting points but I'm not voting you just yet. Can't say it's changed my opinion of randombum a whole lot.
Your turn. Tell us why you're not scum.
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I'm going to bed, but before I do, I want to address your case, randombum. Spoilered for convenience:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 07 2013 12:33 randombum wrote:I don't think glurio is scum. Or at least I don't think he's scummier than a lot of people here. I've left this alone for a while because there's been a clear consensus on who to lynch and I didn't want to divert the thread, but I think it's time we lynched jcarl. He's been riding as scummy looking in the back of a lot of people's mind, but nobody has come out super strongly against him. His filter is short enough that everybody can go read it right now. Here are the things out of his filter that I would like you to notice and reach the same conclusion as me. That he is scum. Utter lack of commitment to reads. I've pointed this out before but, starts with a case on vayesh/vivax and drops them with minimal explanation. He then tries to push JJ because everybody thought JJ looked scummy, but now that JJ looks good his response is: + Show Spoiler +On March 04 2013 09:18 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 09:13 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Lynch aqua jj is more or less confirmed town Yeah, I no longer believe JJ to be scum. After the RB claim and the subsequent RO flip, JJ looks pretty good. I'm not sure about aqua, but I'm somewhat inclined to listen to WF this go around. Jcarl reads will follow wherever the town is leaning. He will also drop down his "reads" with no backing whatsoever. + Show Spoiler +On March 06 2013 11:30 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 11:25 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 06 2013 11:15 The Macho Man wrote:On March 06 2013 11:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:On March 06 2013 10:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
If I survive to Day 4 it means one of two things.
1. Scum won't waste a shot on me with 1 KP assuming I'm a veteran or there could be another doc in the game
2. Scum are intentionally avoiding shooting "big name vets" (I hate saying that) to mask that they are led by one. - This is a plan I've personally employed as scum, to intentionally hit lurkers/less experienced players to push suspicion onto different vets around Day 3-4.
jcarlsoniv, why would you believe Chezinu is town and JungleJorge is somehow a scumslipper? You're one of only three people to not vote Chez yesterday including myself and geript (who voted for himself). Do you still believe that Vivax and JungleJorge hatched a plan together? Would you suggest they are the two remaining scum?
If anyone else considers that to be the case, note that Prom FoS'd JJ before he was lynched and Vivax FoS'd JJ as well in his largest post. I don't remember saying that I think Vivax and JJ hatched a plan together? I thought Chez would flip town because I honestly thought he would be a better player than that. I was mistaken. I began leaning town on JJ because of his RB claim, but after last night's shenanigans (or lack thereof - still speculating on whether or not scum sent in their actions), who the hell knows? I could certainly see Vivax being SK, and if he is, it means he'll be shooting someone else tonight. he has to shoot so his claim makes very little sense from an sk perspective he is extremely likely to be town. what do you think of glurio? Pretty much...this is why I think Vivax is probably town. We'll find out tonight with # of shots anyway. Unless of course there is no SK and Vivax as mafia shot RO to throw us off...but that strikes me as being really really dumb. So Soniv, if you plan on sticking around for more than 5 minutes, who are your scumreads right now and why? Not quite sure at the moment. I was fairly sure that either geript or hassy would flip scum. I feel like there's one (if not both) in the following list: WoS, DrH, WF, randombum, Macho Man Need to relook though. He throws down 5 names in a game of 15 remaining players. One of whom has since flipped town. More importantly he doesn't say why. He says he will relook, but it's been over a day since he claimed he would re-look and hasn't come back with anything. Maybe because everybody keeps ignoring me and goes after people not named jcarl. It's even more damning because literally 2 posts after he puts + Show Spoiler +On March 06 2013 14:26 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 13:54 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 06 2013 13:50 MilkSuckler wrote:On March 06 2013 13:43 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 06 2013 13:35 MilkSuckler wrote:For filter On March 06 2013 13:04 Mocsta wrote:On March 06 2013 12:57 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 04 2013 09:15 Vivax wrote:On March 04 2013 09:10 JungleJorge wrote:
Vivax I assume you are claiming the RO kill?
I jailed layabout. I wasn't roleblocked. Some fishy stuff happened here, or scum team is retarded and an amazing chain of coincidences just happened. I shot RO yes. If what you say is true then there should be a second guy roleblocked by scum, unless layabout is the mafia roleblocker. Uh...didn't you ask him yourself if he claimed RO kill and he said yes? n revised thoughts on glue-man @ WoS I'll tell you what. I'll do it if I know someone other than you is going to read it.  Whats that meant to mean? I am not even asking you something to do... you suggested it upon yourself On March 06 2013 12:13 WaveofShadow wrote:
Alright this makes me want to have another go at glurio's filter, though even if I find something that changes my mind from my earlier town stance I can't see myself wanting to lynch him ahead of the other 3 I mentioned.
I remember feeling very strongly early that he was town; but I'll check to be sure. The filter is not exactly a big one to digest.... so stop being a bitch and complaining Ooooo Mocsta angwy. I'm serious though. Why should I keep feeding information that only you are going to use? Are you the town in its entirety? How are you going to be using the information I give you in the form of my read on Glurio? You're right I did suggest that I was going to do it; but I changed my mind. I don't find any compelling reason to do it right now. I'm not about to die anytime soon, after all. DrH himself (the one you've been so keen to buddy up to most of the thread) said earlier this game: Someone who says they are going to do something and never does it is probably scum (I may be paraphrasing). But he hasn't come back to do what he said he would do. Hard defense of chezniu.It's self evident in his filter, but he clearly defended chezniu and hard. He claims hard defending scum is a town tell because only an idiot mafia wouldn't bus his teammate when chez was clearly next to be lynched. But chez's lynch wasn't truly set in stone. If you look at the final vote-counts http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=400335¤tpage=6#105Chez only had 13 votes. And RO (known scum) could switch at any time. Furthermore if they somehow manage to cause a no-lynch then they get an extra night kill. If they are super lucky they somehow get people to forget chez and lynch geript the next day giving them another night with 2 kills. Point being, he tried really hard to save his scum mate, but the plan backfired so he goes: "Oh, that's not a scum tell its actually a town tell to try to push a lynch off a mafia and into a townie." I don't buy it. ContradictoryIt starts with: Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 09:53 jcarlsoniv wrote:On March 04 2013 09:51 JungleJorge wrote:
I suspect geript will flip town. Voting grush because why not. Seems like a good bet. Aww, but you're gonna make WF so mad. Imma trust him this time. ##vote geript Willing to sheep BH on a geript vote. Then says after geript and hassy die Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 11:30 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Not quite sure at the moment. I was fairly sure that either geript or hassy would flip scum.
I feel like there's one (if not both) in the following list:
WoS, DrH, WF, randombum, Macho Man
Need to relook though. Bold mine. Into Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 02:06 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Hey Wade, you were wrong about geript, and hassy also flipped town. Who are you gonna tunnel next, oh "scumhunter extraordinare"? He is now trying to make Wade look bad, when he has been willing to sheep him and stated that he felt wades reads were correct?
Lack of commitment to reads
As has been complained about by several people (yourself included), the game is difficult and slow when we decide who is being lynched 8 hours into the day. Because of this, I made an attempt to be proactive and look for the next targets. I made cases on Vivax and Vayesh, yes.
Without being attacked on my cases or pressured with them, I decided I was wrong of my own accord. I have no problem admitting I was mistaken. This is very similar to my pressure on JJ. I believe I was one of the first to think JJ could be scum. Following further development (him claiming jailer, etc.), I decided, like many other people that I was wrong.
WoS asked me who I thought was scum. I posted a potential list. Yes, I said I need to relook. I have been, and I haven't come up with a conclusion as of yet.
Defense of Chezinu
I am not going to continue to defend my actions in this regard. I have stated my position on this repeatedly, and I have nothing else to say about it. You've looked through my filter, so I know you've seen what I have to say about it.
Contradictory
I wouldn't really call it contradictory. I voted geript early in the day (sheeping WF), like many other people. As he continued to bitch and moan throughout the day, it led me to believe more and more that he was scum. People had also been making cases against hassy, and his lack of presence didn't help him in any regard.
Wade had been boasting hard core about how he was dominating scum team. That last post was more of a jab at him and his perfect record.
Why would I, were I scum, try to shed doubt upon Wade right before he was killed?
Aqua, you've been disgustingly non-committal the entire game.
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On March 07 2013 14:41 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Aqua, you've been disgustingly non-committal the entire game.
Mate, you're not an unlikely lynch today. I had no intention of committing to anything until I saw your response. Telling you where I thought the holes were in randombum's case, allowing you to exploit them to defend yourself without having to see them yourself, would have been a waste of everybody's time.
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On March 07 2013 14:47 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2013 14:41 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Aqua, you've been disgustingly non-committal the entire game. Mate, you're not an unlikely lynch today. I had no intention of committing to anything until I saw your response. Telling you where I thought the holes were in randombum's case, allowing you to exploit them to defend yourself without having to see them yourself, would have been a waste of everybody's time.
I'm not talking about this case in particular. I'm talking about the entire game. Your filter has next to 0 commitment.
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EPT
