EPTTL Mafia LX - Page 187
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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randombum
United States2378 Posts
Here are the things out of his filter that I would like you to notice and reach the same conclusion as me. That he is scum. Utter lack of commitment to reads. I've pointed this out before but, starts with a case on vayesh/vivax and drops them with minimal explanation. He then tries to push JJ because everybody thought JJ looked scummy, but now that JJ looks good his response is: + Show Spoiler + On March 04 2013 09:18 jcarlsoniv wrote: Yeah, I no longer believe JJ to be scum. After the RB claim and the subsequent RO flip, JJ looks pretty good. I'm not sure about aqua, but I'm somewhat inclined to listen to WF this go around. Jcarl reads will follow wherever the town is leaning. He will also drop down his "reads" with no backing whatsoever. + Show Spoiler + On March 06 2013 11:30 jcarlsoniv wrote: Not quite sure at the moment. I was fairly sure that either geript or hassy would flip scum. I feel like there's one (if not both) in the following list: WoS, DrH, WF, randombum, Macho Man Need to relook though. He throws down 5 names in a game of 15 remaining players. One of whom has since flipped town. More importantly he doesn't say why. He says he will relook, but it's been over a day since he claimed he would re-look and hasn't come back with anything. Maybe because everybody keeps ignoring me and goes after people not named jcarl. It's even more damning because literally 2 posts after he puts + Show Spoiler + On March 06 2013 14:26 jcarlsoniv wrote: DrH himself (the one you've been so keen to buddy up to most of the thread) said earlier this game: Someone who says they are going to do something and never does it is probably scum (I may be paraphrasing). But he hasn't come back to do what he said he would do. Hard defense of chezniu. It's self evident in his filter, but he clearly defended chezniu and hard. He claims hard defending scum is a town tell because only an idiot mafia wouldn't bus his teammate when chez was clearly next to be lynched. But chez's lynch wasn't truly set in stone. If you look at the final vote-counts http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=400335¤tpage=6#105 Chez only had 13 votes. And RO (known scum) could switch at any time. Furthermore if they somehow manage to cause a no-lynch then they get an extra night kill. If they are super lucky they somehow get people to forget chez and lynch geript the next day giving them another night with 2 kills. Point being, he tried really hard to save his scum mate, but the plan backfired so he goes: "Oh, that's not a scum tell its actually a town tell to try to push a lynch off a mafia and into a townie." I don't buy it. Contradictory It starts with: On March 04 2013 09:53 jcarlsoniv wrote: Aww, but you're gonna make WF so mad. Imma trust him this time. ##vote geript Willing to sheep BH on a geript vote. Then says after geript and hassy die On March 06 2013 11:30 jcarlsoniv wrote: Not quite sure at the moment. I was fairly sure that either geript or hassy would flip scum. I feel like there's one (if not both) in the following list: WoS, DrH, WF, randombum, Macho Man Need to relook though. Bold mine. Into On March 07 2013 02:06 jcarlsoniv wrote: Hey Wade, you were wrong about geript, and hassy also flipped town. Who are you gonna tunnel next, oh "scumhunter extraordinare"? He is now trying to make Wade look bad, when he has been willing to sheep him and stated that he felt wades reads were correct? | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On March 07 2013 12:05 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Do you think wos is scum milksuckler? He's called pretty much everyone in the game out at one point or another for being scummy. It reeks of his manipulative play from NMM 37; as he's put it he's very good at steering people's thoughts where he wants them to go. I'm not 100% sure it's scummy though because his filter is so goddamn huge it's taking me forever to get through it. In other news, I looked at WF's filter and I've concluded that he was paranoid Sheriff. On March 03 2013 08:48 Wade Fell wrote: heh well in 10 minutes when chez flips scum that big party of you is going to be highly disappointed Chances are he checked at night. It's possible he didn't but he clearly was looking towards Geript next and was talking about him most of the day. He likely performed his next night check on Geript, which turned up guilty since he is paranoid. How do I assume this? On March 04 2013 09:13 Wade Fell wrote: OH LOL I WAS PLAYING DOTA I'm super glad I didn't get killed. In any case, it's 100% clear that geript is scum. His so-called attempts to "hunt scum" are thinly-foiled attempts to discredit town. His clear scumminess, protection of promethelax and Chezinu before things looked bad for them both tell us he is scum. He's playing nothing like he played in his town games. I was nice to him during the night because I was hoping he wouldn't shoot me. Geript is scum. Lynch him. Spill his blood. ##vote: Geript. On March 04 2013 09:14 Wade Fell wrote: I'm even surer that Geript is scum today than I was that chez was scum yesterday. These are his two posts directly after the night end. (Now it's entirely possible that WF was insane instead and didn't check up on Chez; rather he checked another mafia and got innocent result N1 hence not having the desire to push anyone else other than Chez based on his won reads D2.) Either way this conclusion merits a close look into WF's filter to see what else we can learn since he didn't give us anything concrete to go on. It's probably worth attempting to deduce his N1 check to see if it was Chez or someone else. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
I know they're out there though. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
In particular I want to see what you think makes him scum as opposed to bored town. | ||
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MilkSuckler
Swaziland597 Posts
On March 07 2013 12:05 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Do you think wos is scum milksuckler? The banter I had with him yesterday to me is non-alignment indicative; as scum, I am not scared of confrontation, and he seems to exhibit the same confidence. Having said that: There is a lot I dont like in WoS filter, but i do not think my personal dislike of filter makes him scum. In fact his last post on Wade Fell spoke volumes to me. Even though it is a contribution anyone can make, I think he put more detail and time into it than a scum player would invest. I will say outright, there is a higher chance of you flipping scum than WoS in my mind. Day1 i had you as probably town, and each day that has slowly dwindled, that for me personally, I list you as null. This was further exacerbated by your claims to my false representation of events. ================= I dont know what to make of randombum; if you think a guy is town, the correct course of action is to identify someone scummier. But, I would have liked if he extrapolated somewhat on his claim that glurio is town (considering the heat he is under) | ||
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TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
On March 07 2013 12:33 randombum wrote: I don't think glurio is scum. Or at least I don't think he's scummier than a lot of people here. I've left this alone for a while because there's been a clear consensus on who to lynch and I didn't want to divert the thread, but I think it's time we lynched jcarl. He's been riding as scummy looking in the back of a lot of people's mind, but nobody has come out super strongly against him. His filter is short enough that everybody can go read it right now. Here are the things out of his filter that I would like you to notice and reach the same conclusion as me. That he is scum. Utter lack of commitment to reads. I've pointed this out before but, starts with a case on vayesh/vivax and drops them with minimal explanation. He then tries to push JJ because everybody thought JJ looked scummy, but now that JJ looks good his response is: + Show Spoiler + On March 04 2013 09:18 jcarlsoniv wrote: Yeah, I no longer believe JJ to be scum. After the RB claim and the subsequent RO flip, JJ looks pretty good. I'm not sure about aqua, but I'm somewhat inclined to listen to WF this go around. Jcarl reads will follow wherever the town is leaning. He will also drop down his "reads" with no backing whatsoever. + Show Spoiler + On March 06 2013 11:30 jcarlsoniv wrote: Not quite sure at the moment. I was fairly sure that either geript or hassy would flip scum. I feel like there's one (if not both) in the following list: WoS, DrH, WF, randombum, Macho Man Need to relook though. He throws down 5 names in a game of 15 remaining players. One of whom has since flipped town. More importantly he doesn't say why. He says he will relook, but it's been over a day since he claimed he would re-look and hasn't come back with anything. Maybe because everybody keeps ignoring me and goes after people not named jcarl. It's even more damning because literally 2 posts after he puts + Show Spoiler + On March 06 2013 14:26 jcarlsoniv wrote: DrH himself (the one you've been so keen to buddy up to most of the thread) said earlier this game: Someone who says they are going to do something and never does it is probably scum (I may be paraphrasing). But he hasn't come back to do what he said he would do. Hard defense of chezniu. It's self evident in his filter, but he clearly defended chezniu and hard. He claims hard defending scum is a town tell because only an idiot mafia wouldn't bus his teammate when chez was clearly next to be lynched. But chez's lynch wasn't truly set in stone. If you look at the final vote-counts http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=400335¤tpage=6#105 Chez only had 13 votes. And RO (known scum) could switch at any time. Furthermore if they somehow manage to cause a no-lynch then they get an extra night kill. If they are super lucky they somehow get people to forget chez and lynch geript the next day giving them another night with 2 kills. Point being, he tried really hard to save his scum mate, but the plan backfired so he goes: "Oh, that's not a scum tell its actually a town tell to try to push a lynch off a mafia and into a townie." I don't buy it. Contradictory It starts with: Willing to sheep BH on a geript vote. Then says after geript and hassy die Bold mine. Into He is now trying to make Wade look bad, when he has been willing to sheep him and stated that he felt wades reads were correct? I like this a lot. When skimming through jcarl's filter I noticed he ended up on the wrong side of nearly every player who we now have alignment information on (or pretty good information like vivax and JJ). The one exception was prome, but he never seemed to be very passionate about his stance on prome either. Overall, it looks like scum play to me. | ||
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MilkSuckler
Swaziland597 Posts
On March 07 2013 12:56 Aquanim wrote: @MilkSuckler I'd like you to make a single, unified case on Glurio pulling together everything you think makes him scum. In particular I want to see what you think makes him scum as opposed to bored town. I am not trying to be difficult.. its just.. what i developed from MachoMan was enough for me. I dont actually know if you are implying you disagree with it, or want me to make something from scratch? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=399294¤tpage=180#3592 I have not seen any of this refuted either (including by Glurio) If what you are saying is.. "What if he is bored townie" Yes, the above doesnt consider that option. (I only considered my meta-town read on him early game) Hence as for Bored Townie.. I think Glurio has come into the thread and thrown his weight around enough times to count a bored townie claim. I would expect a bored townie, to exhibit tendencies akin to OO - i.e. fully disappear from the thread. I admit OO case perhaps was rage-induced, but that is what I would expect none the less. Bored Townie:Come in the thread purely to lay down a vote. Also meta-wise, Glurio is historically a low-post contributor, so I can not associate activity as a read for scum or bored townie. Also Note: Glurio has still been commenting on things (e.g. last night); which suggests he is still reading the thread (all 186 pages of it)... Im happy to discuss this in more detial, just highlight what you want to focus on. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
Your posts are all over the place. You said extra kp night 1 was because of a scum JOAT when mafia KP was two and two townies died. And your filter is 26pages that i am not reading. Ever. since an sk is even less likely given what we know we have even more reason to lynch aqua! ##vote aquanim BH would have gotten his 3rd result today so even if he had bread crumbed his results n1 and n2 he wouldn't have known his sanity so his crumbs would offer us nothing. + Show Spoiler + not sure why i am awake | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
@MilkSuckler - I never defended WoS. I said I would read into him last night and just went to sleep before I really could. Why would you call me out for defending a player you think is town? Can you explain how my tunneling of toadesstern was based in any way on a "policy lynch"? Attacking JJ and supporting his lynch is indefensible. JJ is almost certainly the town roleblocker. If you believe JJ is lying then you must also believe that Vivax is his scumbuddy. You're not committing to your own read here though which is really worrisome. I think we should lynch you today. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
The rest of Glurio's posts are covered with a blanket "overall lack of activity and concern for the lynch" which is again true but unfortunately describes about half of the players in this game. Glurio hasn't contributed much but this case isn't enough to convince me. In fact, this reads as a pretty half-hearted attempt by a player with IamP's experience. | ||
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Aquanim
Australia2849 Posts
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MilkSuckler
Swaziland597 Posts
On March 07 2013 13:07 layabout wrote: since an sk is even less likely given what we know we have even more reason to lynch aqua! I have asked a few times if this is the sole reason: On March 04 2013 10:30 layabout wrote: I am suggesting that aqua is claiming he was roleblocked for towncred, since scum should have roleblocked vivax. (No response from you) Considering you thought he was town prior to the RB; I dont think this RB logic is enough to warrant a lynch. Also for consideration: If you think it was stupid i chased JJ; note that, when JJ was NOT RB'd... Aqua was. And I already pointed out a potential reason for the Aqua RB here: On March 07 2013 09:31 MilkSuckler wrote: That makes sense at least. Im thinking Aquanim was RB'd for this comment during N2 On March 03 2013 20:36 Aquanim wrote: <To Geript> If you survive the night I'll wager 5 internet points that you don't get lynched tomorrow. A little bird has whispered in my ear. tl;dr I don't support an Aquanim lynch based off RB speculation. If you think Aqua is scum, perhaps you can provide supporting filter evidence. | ||
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MilkSuckler
Swaziland597 Posts
On March 07 2013 13:14 DoctorHelvetica wrote: That flip in reasoning from jcarlsoniv is hella bad. Indefensible practically. @MilkSuckler - I never defended WoS. I said I would read into him last night and just went to sleep before I really could. Why would you call me out for defending a player you think is town? Can you explain how my tunneling of toadesstern was based in any way on a "policy lynch"? This is the 3rd time I have told you. i dont even know what you are talking about in regards to toad and a policy lynch. I dont give a shit if you are ?phone? posting, support it with a quote. I called you out on WoS because it has been evident for several real life days now, you are posting without reading things.. which concerns me, because Day1, you act like someone who is chasing the facts around the clock. And slowly the behaviour has changed to now, you make wild comments founded upon no fact. I have already shown where you defend WoS, who was never cast into danger. Attacking JJ and supporting his lynch is indefensible. JJ is almost certainly the town roleblocker. If you believe JJ is lying then you must also believe that Vivax is his scumbuddy. You're not committing to your own read here though which is really worrisome. I think we should lynch you today. Again, do you not read the thread?This was written before you went gung-ho for me. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=399294¤tpage=185#3697 (I will admit we posted at the same time stamp.. but it just proves I already changed my conclusion based on information I did not consider) That has been fully transparent. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
i like the case on jcarlsoniv so ill just sheep right now | ||
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The Macho Man
171 Posts
On March 07 2013 13:15 Aquanim wrote: So this is Macho Man's case right? This feels pretty superficial to me. There are basically only two points - first, that Glurio went and summarised everything Vayesh said (which I admit is easy for scum to do, but I don't see direct scum motivation) and second his sheeping of Vayesh (again, easy for scum to hide behind but still). The rest of Glurio's posts are covered with a blanket "overall lack of activity and concern for the lynch" which is again true but unfortunately describes about half of the players in this game. Glurio hasn't contributed much but this case isn't enough to convince me. In fact, this reads as a pretty half-hearted attempt by a player with IamP's experience. maybe you should i dont know look at my past cases... that i have made in other games....... i dont know how anyone can read glurios filter and possibly think he is town. He is totally disconnected and hides behind dead player that is fucking scummy. | ||
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The Macho Man
171 Posts
On March 07 2013 13:25 DoctorHelvetica wrote: ugh im not even reading properly im sorry im honestly so disinterested in this game i like the case on jcarlsoniv so ill just sheep right now why not glurio....? | ||
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