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I'm calling Yamato out for it now because he is up for lynch. Dieno/Syl looked way scummier coming out of Day 1, and that was top priority (and addressed). I'm also calling him out for it now because he's freaking attacking me about my own Day 1 as if it's completely alien to the way he played his own Day 1, which I find incredibly hypocritical.
And you're right that I am protecting Hapa -- I have a town read on him based off of incredibly pro-town argument timing and voting behavior. Lynching scum is way more town than dueling someone a couple hours into the Day period without letting them defend themselves.
I find it incredibly suspect that so many people are completely willing to brush aside the fact that Hapa was the FIRST person to defend Adam when thread sentiment could have easily pushed for an Adam mislynch, and was one of the very first to vote for Keirathi. And then he was also one of the first to push for Dieno/Syl, when at the same time, Yamato was trying to push for a Yamato/Syl duel.
Hapa's actions have led to pro-town results; Yamato's stated desires would have led to pro-mafia results.
I don't know how you can say that I mention nothing about Yamato being scummy when I explain it fairly thoroughly in my vote post, and then just re-quoted it for Yamato. In fact, YOU mentioned absolutely nothing about Hapa being scummy until this duel post. The absolute idiot in me can say "Therefore, Cora is only out to protect Yamato!" Or I can simply say, "Gee, maybe he had no reason to actually look at Hapa-scum until the Duel post where he only has two options."
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On March 05 2013 02:08 Oatsmaster wrote:
##Vote Hapahauli
Can Oats explain his change of tune? I haven't see his reason for it, except as a way of determining whether Acro is scum.
On March 04 2013 22:51 Oatsmaster wrote:
Basically his read on Keirathi, although he did leave it open ended based on Keirathi's activity.
Yamato is picking sensible fights? Like with who? Also he basically lied about his activity around the scum lynches so far.
He did NOTHING in the Dieno lynch, and hopped around alot in the Keirathi lynch and only wanted to lynch him after the momentum shift.
On March 04 2013 20:42 Oatsmaster wrote:
##Vote: Yamato.
Lets give him his wish and lynch him.
On March 04 2013 22:01 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yeah Yamato is defending himself as hard as he can.
Still doesnt tell me why Hapa is scum.
Hapa's vote on Keir at the start of Adam's duel makes absolutely no sense as scum. Why would you try to stop the quickly forming mislynch?
Also Yamato hard pushed you n2/3 and seems to think you are confirmed town now.
Why? I dont know.
He keeps harping on the fact that his meta is different from the last scum game he played.
A lot of talk about why Yamato looks scummy, zero about Hapa, and yet the vote is on Hapa. Why?
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Yeah, I saw you were on Yamato, but even when you switched to Hapa you didn't give reasons why except that dead townies thought he might be scum.
Please explain to me which actions of Hapa are scummy enough to outweigh the fact that he was the first person to defend Adam and one of the first to vote for Keirathi, and then one of the first to push for a Dieno/Syl duel.
But you're saying that the only reason you didn't mention Hapa/Yamato before now was because you were pushing Syl? So you thought that Hapa was scum before? I don't think so.
I'm pretty sure you had no reason to suspect him until the duel and were forced to look through both their filters, which is fine. I'm saying it was the same for me and Yamato -- I had no reason to suspect him until he put himself, and someone who I believe to be town, up for lynch.
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Like, you can't go off on Yamato and then switch to Hapa and justify it with only "his actions are scummier." You and Oats haven't given any reasoning for switching from Yamato to Hapa, and I want to know what's going through your heads (and so should the rest of town).
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Oats and Cora still haven't fully justified their switches onto Hapa yet.
Hapa's switch on iamp WAS pretty scummy, but I really think that of all the results of the first duel, Hapa looked the most town coming out of it than anyone save for Adam, IMO. Scum had every opportunity to get Adam lynched at the point that Hapa defended Adam instead, and considering that we know that scum was already ON Adam (Dieno), I don't see why Hapa would also be scum and then vote opposite of one scum mate while busing another. That's a recipe for ruining the entire scum team.
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EBWOP: And THEN bus that other scum mate on Day 2. It just makes no sense.
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Like, if Hapa was orchestrating a double-bus, surely he would use that to leverage some kind of confirmed townie status, but I haven't seen him strutting about as if he can say whatever he wants and get by for free. He's still pretty careful and discerning from what I can tell.
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That's all the votes, right?
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Is Adam so confirmed town now? Hapa's bus must have been planned way ahead. And if you look at the mafia kill targets, they weren't the people who went after Keirathi -- they were the people who voted for the double lynch: Iamp and Thrawn, leaving only Acro. What if their bus was scum dueling scum? That would explain Dieno on Adam AND Hapa on Keirathi so early.
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This honestly becomes a lot more complicated now for finding scum (for me; apparently everyone else is quite convinced it's me). I was assuming that the only Day 1 busers would have been after my vote.
The fact that Hapa bused Keirathi and left Dieno on Adam, and then he went after Dieno on Day 2, makes me think that the scum team decided to double-bus (if that's the right term? bus two scum in a row?). Why else would they bus one scum while leaving another scum out in the cold on a townie? (That assumes that scum were all on the same page despite voting very differently, of course.)
Which makes me think that the fourth scum is not very likely to have voted for Adam, which clears Sylencia and Corazon. Considering Hapa's bus, I think that the other scum is more likely to be approximating Hapa's bus in the order of votes.
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On March 05 2013 23:59 cDgCorazon wrote:
I think the fact that Zare read 10-20 pages of the thread and suddenly decided that Yamato was scum without asking questions or thinking it through is a bit of a scum tell. It means that he basically read the thread through and was going to vote for Yamato anyways. His read through only came up on reasons that Yamato was scum and didn't even explore the possibilities that Hapa could have been scum.
It's Zare defending his scum buddy, and him pressuring Oats and I was just a scare tactic to try and get a double lynch.
Dude, I read like 40 pages of the thread and had 10 left when I saw your weird "2/3 dead people said to eventually lynch him days ago so I'm going to do it without any explanation" case. Between Hapa and Yamato, I thought Yamato was scummier. I asked WAY more questions than you did; you completely 180'd on Hapa without justification, while I did nothing but justify my Hapa town read all night.
You run with a lot of assumptions -- how in the world would me pressuring you and Oats (and by "pressuring" you meant "asking us why he completely switched our votes without any real justification") be trying to get a double lynch? I sense a tunnel. Just think -- what if you are wrong? (Because you are.) What are all the scum possibilities right now? All I sense from you is looking for any excuse to be the next guy in line to call me scum.
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Alderan's second post was calling Dieno scummy. That would be a super early bus.
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Honestly, I think the final scum is most likely to be among Corazon/Oats (they were really after Yamato; Corazon's case on Hapa did not seem as though he'd come up with it himself, and Oats' switch was CRAZY out of the blue and when he did justify it, it was like he pulled sentences from other people's cases and made them into a paragraph). I don't see scum dueling scum Day 2 to be a great idea from a scum perspective, so that should clear Syl. And as I mentioned, the very first thing Alderan did in this game was to call Dieno scum.
Everyone else who voted for Hapa did so with a lot of discussion and reasoning, save for Adam, who is essentially confirmed town unless scum dueled scum on Day 1 and thought pretty rigorously on his Yamato read (in my opinion; I agreed with him).
Corazon also kept going after Syl on Day 2 when everyone else wanted Dieno, and started on Adam before switching to Keirathi (despite saying earlier that he wanted Keirathi to be dueled, but that was only if Thrawn dueled him).
Oats' filter is filled with short questions and almost zero cases, and his switch onto Hapa was SUPER weird. They're the two people I'm looking at the most right now.
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On March 06 2013 00:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
The fact of the matter is that you voted for Yamato and then asked the questions. It means before you had even read anything after the duel post, you already knew that you were going to vote for Yamato.
No, that's not what happened and it's not what it means. I read up to the very latest post before i posted my Yamato read; I don't know where you get this idea that I was going to vote for Yamato no matter what. I had a town read on Hapa that was confirmed to me as I was catching up on the thread, while several things that Yamato was doing seemed scummy to me. So by the time I caught up, my vote was pretty clear.
I was wrong. But nothing that you, Cora, did, actively attempted to persuade me I was wrong. You presented no specific case to me or piece of evidence other than your list of dead townies; you simply yelled at me that I was scum trying to protect Hapa. It's not like I was putting my hands over my ears and singing so your logic wouldn't affect me.
Your rash defense of Hapa strongly indicates that you are his scum buddy. At this point scum need to hold on to every member they can, and you hoped that he would not die so you guys could have numbers. 1 scum trying to take on 7 town is not a very ideal situation.
What's even less ideal for scum is for that 1 scum to be only one of two people voting for the other guy when the thread consensus is on the scum buddy. That's why your complete 180, and Oats' complete 180, are far scummier than what I did.
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On March 06 2013 00:29 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 00:24 zarepath wrote:
Honestly, I think the final scum is most likely to be among Corazon/Oats
Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 23:58 zarepath wrote:
Which makes me think that the fourth scum is not very likely to have voted for Adam, which clears Sylencia and Corazon. What? Did you really just contradict yourself?
Yeah, I looked back at Day 1 and saw that you switched from Adam onto Keir. For some reason I thought that your vote had stayed there.
When we've lynched scum, you've either switched your vote onto them or voted for the other guy, every time.
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On March 06 2013 00:28 yamato77 wrote:
Oats doubtful mafia.
Cora/Alderan/Acro/Zare
Mafia is among you.
Why is Oats doubtful mafia to you?
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EBWOP: Also, I thought Acro looked super townie to you yesterday. What changed your mind to put him in the pool of possibilities?
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On March 06 2013 00:35 Oatsmaster wrote:
Why Zarepath, why is Cora's and my 180 scummier?
So why are you trying to 'redeem' yourself? Go find someone scummier than you if you are town please :D
Scummier than ___?
It's scummy because for the entire first half of the duel, you were going on and on about how obvious a scum Yamato was. You were gung-ho for lynching him. And then the next post is simply an unvote and ##Vote: Hapa. HOURS later, you post a reason that is a single paragraph that is almost word-for-word copied from everyone else's reasons who voted for Hapa, without a single reference to WHY you switched or any attempt to reconcile your supposed absolute surety of Yamato with your sudden sheep vote on Hapa.
That seems scummy to me.
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On March 06 2013 00:38 cDgCorazon wrote:
Then I realized that there was a lot more scummy stuff about Hapa than there was about Yamato, so I switched to Hapa and made it 2-1. It's not like I was the hammer or the votes before the hammer. Do you really think I would be bussing Hapa that early? It was more likely that I would be the hammer or the 4th vote on Hapa.
You're grasping at straws here, and your "Cora isn't scum unless he attacks me" crap is just smoke and mirrors.
My problem is that you never said "the stuff." You said "I find his actions scummier." Like, how is that supposed to persuade me? MAYBE it persuades me that you believe it, but it's not like you're activley promoting his lynch or trying to correct incorrect townspeople. Even if you think I'm scum, why didn't you try to persuade Adam?
This is now outside the realm of scumhunting, because it's a good point you raise that you became the 2-1 vote for Hapa. That goes a long way, I think, and I didn't realize you'd voted for him that early in the count.
But you're tunneling me, and were tunneling me all of Duel 3. Your arguments more often than not boil down to "You are scum and are therefore doing X, Y, Z because you are scum," instead of "You doing X, Y, Z makes me think you could be scum" and performing actions that help you confirm your read, ie, "Zarepath, who do you think is scum here? Why do you think A is scummier than B in light of C evidence?" You're doing the logic backwards and it's leading to you getting increasingly confident and increasingly wrong.
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EPT
