EPTThis Town Ain't Big Enough Mafia - Page 3
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Acrofales
Spain17992 Posts
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Acrofales
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Acrofales
Spain17992 Posts
On February 26 2013 08:34 Hapahauli wrote: I can associate that with being busy as well. Anywho, I don't want to defend Kei - he can speak in his own defense whenever he gets back from whatever he's up to. So reading your "goodbye" post, we're on opposite sides of the fence on Dienosaur. What do you think of my comments on him, particularly his attitude towards Adam? You haven't bothered to explain yourself. Honestly, I feel Dieno is way too easy a mislynch. Could he be scum for his rather erratic play? Sure, but I think he is playing to his town meta. I also think he is lynchbait and that makes me even more hesitant about lynching him. I think the map seems similar to his maps in other games and am willing to give him some time to develop it. If he never steps up his play, then I will be harder on him. Given what I think of thrawn, sylencia, keir and yourself, a Dieno lynch would be really dumb today. | ||
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On February 26 2013 09:30 thrawn2112 wrote: some of my earlier reads are now the opposite of what they were i'm pretty sure that iamp/yamato/oats are town I think there is probably scum among hapa/acro and i think it's way more likely that acro is scum there are a few low contribution players I don't like but chief among them is zarepath Why is there scum in me/Hapa. Can we not both be scum? Also, nice reasoning there, mr. mafia; throwing out names with, once again, no reasoning. | ||
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On February 26 2013 09:50 iamperfection wrote: i would like to do zare vs snarf or zare vs kier i would like to give hapa some more time. Is there anyone that is with me? Tell me again why Thrawn is town. His calling you out is not enough given the rest of his play. I have played town with him once and he played well. I read 2 other of his town games and they were also fine. This is not his townplay. | ||
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On February 26 2013 10:17 Oatsmaster wrote: All these inactive people. We still have more than 40 hours though, no need to be hasty. No, we have 20 hours. | ||
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The fact that he largely agrees with Marv and my own reads before they were layed out clearly in the thread is also a point in his favour, although I don't know anything about Snarfs (never played with him or read many games by him). | ||
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On February 26 2013 11:47 Oatsmaster wrote: why Cora? So they can choose lynchbait and get themselves off that way? Only if a majority of town votes for the lynch bait. The idea is not entirely without merit. One of which is that we have no real way of preventing it. Town has no way of forcing someone to duel (I presume, there may be powers of course), so whoever is going to duel will have to participate enough to challenge someone. Now there's two scenarios: 1. The first duelist is town. In this case, it would be monumentally stupid play for a townie to duel someone he has a town read on. For instance, if Iamp is town, him dueling thrawn would be dumb, because he doesn't believe thrawn is scum (regardless of his reasons, you have to respect people's reads). Putting a townie in this situation is forcing that townie into a scenario he thinks is lose/lose: he chooses option C, to duel his scumread, the thread gets angry, lynches him and is down a townie. 2. The first duelist is scum. Lets assume the second scumread we want him to duel (assuming we can even agree on that) is a townie. Of course he agrees. He then tries his damndest to argue his way out of getting lynched. Maybe the fact that he was compliant persuades some townies to vote for his opponent. Now lets assume the second scumread is another scum. In this case the scum would be monumentally stupid to duel that opponent, as it is guaranteed scumdeath. He therefore picks his strongest scumread. How is this distinguishable from the town equivalent? Only by good analysis. So, we need good analysis in all cases. Might as well do away with the bias from trying to force people to do shit they don't want to do. This way the scumspect also has to explain why he is dueling that person. And he'd better be convincing, or he'll end up being lynched anyway. I like this plan quite a bit better than the original: this one has some of the kinks worked out of it  | ||
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On February 26 2013 12:16 Oatsmaster wrote: Wait so Acro, you are saying that when the thread agrees on 2 duel candidates, they are not forced to duel each other, yeah sure but how large a fucking scum claim is that? The thing is that EITHER of the them could pull the trigger, so assuming that one is town, one is scum, its gonna happen, scum are forced to duel cause if they dont, they are claiming scum and even 1 for 1 trades arent that good. Other thoughts? Did you miss the part at the bottom? He has to explain himself. Of course, if 90% of the thread has consolidated on two targets, going against that is going to take some serious explaining, isn't it? | ||
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Also, restriction of choice is restriction of information. While I think thrawn is scum and I think I'll vote for him regardless of whom he duels, he may yet convince me otherwise (see Marv's story about H1 at the start of N1). Allowing townies a choice in who they lynch allows them an opportunity to argue their way out of a lynch. The flipside is that it allows scums the same opportunity. We'll just have to trust our scumhunting skills to distinguish between the two. | ||
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On February 26 2013 13:13 thrawn2112 wrote: imo adam wasn't really putting himself in the spotlight the way yamato was besides, this line of reasoning is pretty weak. anything else to say about adam? Out of everything that has been asked from you, your contribution is to butt into an ongoing discussion that has nothing much to do with you, to throw in a soft defense of adam here? How about you explain your scumreads instead? | ||
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On February 26 2013 13:40 thrawn2112 wrote: I'm not soft defending adam. Kei is making a real weak case And your duty this game is to defend your null/scum reads from weak cases? Or is it that you think Keir is scum? | ||
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Same question about Iamp: why the change of heart? | ||
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On February 26 2013 17:22 yamato77 wrote: Despite my reads on the two of you before this, I will say that this was a truly horrid decision. Going to have to sit on this for a while. This.While my scumread on Keirathi is still there, he had finally gotten active enough to be evaluated and I was waiting for the answer to some questions. Similarly, thrawn was finally posting sensibly. There are over 12 hours left to duel, and Adam jumps the gun on ALL of this discussion. As if he doesn't want to give any time to reevaluate either of these players. This alone is scummy. However, it is way worse if one of the other candidates for dueling being discussed (mainly thrawn,but potentially sylencia) is scum as well: if that's the case then this could be to save his teammates under the expectation he won't get lynched. It's an association with unflipped players, so don't take that too seriously, but all I can take away from this is scum motivations and I see NO town motivations for this duel. Adam: if you're town, you're a selfish douche who is not playing in town's best interest. I will reevaluate you, but I really feel like policy lynching you for playing like this. I will now fight my instincts, because I don't think policy lyncing idiots is a good idea, but that's the way I feel right now. | ||
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Keirathi's case was ALL about how Adam was only out to prove his townieness. Whether the case was good or not at the time is moot, I kinda liked Keirathi's later arguments for it. What I gave Adam townie points for are subtracted by Adam giving himself townie points for: it shows he was aware of how his posts are different from his scum meta. While I'm not sure it is as easy as that to change your scum meta, it is definitely possible to keep it up for a day, which is all he has done so far. + Show Spoiler [adam's post] + On February 25 2013 13:28 Adam4167 wrote: I call you emotional because I just cant see the logic behind wanting the two people causing the most discussion to duel each other. Mafia that sit in the spotlight almost always fry, and as a general rule, try to avoid it. The likelyhood of either of us being scum is not good as a result. In your hypothetical, Id kill whoever was displaying the least value to the town, as in nomination mafia. We aren't all going to agree with every lynch, and there will come a time when you may have to choose between two people you have some form of a town read on. If we all unanimously agree on all our reads then either a) our reads are wrong because the scum are agreeing with us, or b) the scum team is so inept that they got clean swept. Reemphasizing the bolded part. This is incredibly disingenious. He seems afraid the point where he is going "against the grain" will be missed and therefore needs to reiterate that fact. Especially dropping his name in next to Yamato with the "either of us". Dueling Keirathi brings this to the next step, given his motivation: I want to prove that I can read scum. Except, he didn't. He OMGUS'd based on a general thread consensus that Keirathi is scum. NOWHERE does he actually give a read on Keir, other than: On February 26 2013 14:30 Adam4167 wrote: Now that my internet is recovered: I fully support this duel between Thrawn and Keirathi. Thrawn is taking ownership of his reads, something I mentioned yesterday, I respect that. That case against me was god awful, stinks of nothing-scum-case. It does nothing to illustrate why i'm scum, only that I was using logic that shows I think i'm town and everyone else should think it too. This doesn't say Keir is scum, it says Keir made a bad case. One which in hindsight wasn't even that bad. Adam is overly concerned with looking like town. The whole game he has harped on about how Dieno is scum. If his real motivation is to prove his own reads are so good, why is he not dueling Dieno? I will look at his meta now. What I do know is that Palmar caught him in such a gruesome manner in Hero mafia (it's all on video) that Marv, his scumbuddy, felt forced to bus him early on D1. If that isn't a motivation to try to change up your style, I don't know what is. | ||
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On February 26 2013 19:33 Oatsmaster wrote: Forget the bad decision by adam, Is Keirathi or Adam scum? Stop asking stupid questions and make up your own damned mind. | ||
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