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I'm going to be mostly AFK for the rest of the Night so here are some reads/suspicions for the moment.
Hapa
The very first thing he does is claim town, which I really dislike.
Proposes a policy.
Suggests that all Cora wants to do is call Sylencia a dick... stoking the flames
The 180 on iamp with not a lot of justification
In the end he makes a fairly good defense (last post in his filter). The iamp 180 does look awful, but I can see the reasoning behind it.
Oats
Super spastic. Tons of questions. The other game I've played with Oats, this is how he played Day 1 in order to get information/discussion flowing. I am pretty sure that is his tactic now. But if literally zero cases or reads come out of it, his behavior is going to look scummy in retrospect.
Keirathi
Somebody else who soft-claimed town immediately, a thing I hate. Supposedly caught up with the thread but hasn't made his presence known in any substantial way. He needs to have opinions or something.
Dienosore
I feel like he is the stuffed animal of this game of mafia. He is cute and friendly and makes sweet pictures and hard to hate, but when night strikes he turns into an Agent of Evil and creepily plots our demise. Okay, so not really. His picture is potentially helpful/useful, and I like his tone, but he has really gone out of his way to talk about how friendly he is, which strikes me a little bit of Stranger In An Unmarked Van syndrome. He opts to be the nice welcoming guy to Cora when everyone else is finding excuses to hate him, and it just makes my heart swell. Then in his defense of his defense of Cora, he mentions multiple times how friendly he is. Why is he so concerned with looking friendly? Town doesn't need to worry how they look, just what they accomplish. Note that he also went out of his way to express how he is NOT good at catching scum. Why would town advertise that? Don't they want their arguments to hold sway?
I want to see more of his conclusions from his mapping; undoubtedly several occur to him while he does the research.
Adam
What does Adam think about people not named Dienosore? Hard to tell.
Snarfs
Unless Snarfs has been mafia a million times in a row, his first line was a super annoying soft-town-claim that is not justified, in my opinion. Now that he's caught up I wonder what his other thoughts are.
Sylencia
I mentioned this earlier, but Sylencia looks the scummiest right now of all of the players. Others have contributed less/none, but the few things Sylencia has popped in to post fall easily under the Scum Motivated category. He has more work to do to stop looking scummy than anybody else. Just check his filter and the case makes itself.
iamperfection
His player list comment (assuming town will have the good players for some reason) sounds awful but when looked at, I can understand how it's simply just saying that there are so many good players we're bound to have at least one as town. His logic fails to account for the fact that mafia will also have good players, so it's not like town will now have it easy  .
He calls someone town REALLY early in the game, which something you can usually only do with confidence when you are scum.
He calls Snarfs scummy also very early in the game, then tells other people to discuss it. I think this is kind of null, but worth bringing up because it was a unique read.
He goes out of his way to answer for corazon, tell him who is scum. I don't know that I can see scum acting this... forwardly. He is unforgiving in his opinions and doesn't really bend at all to town, and he just has this weird vibe. I get a sense of unique thoughts coming from this man. He gives a bunch of town reads, which is apparently something he just does.
This man is a Wild Card. I think I like him. (And I can also understand how someone would be certain that he's scum and then suddenly decide he's no longer scum.)
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EBWOP: There's no invisible text there, it was just an accident, sorry
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Association cases pre-flip (on Night Zero, of all times) are always a trap. Make individual reads.
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I can't believe this happened. This seems far from the best duel we could have set up today. Thrawn switches his suspicions YET AGAIN:
On February 26 2013 09:30 thrawn2112 wrote:
some of my earlier reads are now the opposite of what they were
i'm pretty sure that iamp/yamato/oats are town
I think there is probably scum among hapa/acro and i think it's way more likely that acro is scum
there are a few low contribution players I don't like but chief among them is zarepath
And then he bounces from hapa/acro to FOR SURE wanting to duel... Keirathi? But not to the point of ACTUALLY dueling him... just to the point of asking what OTHER people think about him dueling him. And his case came down to Keirathi only having a case against Thrawn based on meta... but isn't that, like, every single person in the thread? Everyone is surprised at Thrawn's performance this game based on his meta. Why isn't Snarf's tenuous Thrawn case scummier than Keirathi's?
On February 26 2013 12:40 Snarfs wrote:Much promised look at thrawn: Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 10:06 thrawn2112 wrote:On February 25 2013 09:58 Acrofales wrote:On February 25 2013 09:53 thrawn2112 wrote:
I don't think much policy related thought needs to go into dueling. The more arbitrary rules and policies we try to enforce, the more rules and policies scum have available to hide their actions behind. Let the game flow naturally as to counteract unnatural reads brought on by unnatural/arbitrary policies.
lol, clearly this town ain't big enough. that much is already apparent
Those first posts are a bitch to write, aren't they? Way to say nothing! What do you think of yamato and cora? I'm not willing to commit to a read on cora yet. Nothing he's posted so far is all that alignment indicative, coming from him. As for yamato... maybe slighty town? I disagree with the logic behind nearly all of what he's said so far but he's acting in a townish manner. Iamp could be scum. All he's done is drop off a town read and comment on how useless the thread is. a) I'm not sure how he got different feels from iamp and yamato early game. Both seemed quite abrasive and had an "i don't care what anyone thinks of me attitude". Once I warmed up to one of them being town, it was easy to warm up to the other being town - seems contradictory to find one's way of acting townish and the other mafia-esque. b) I also see what people are saying about his random appearance trying to get hapa to duel someone when he was under pressure without any sort of explanation himself. c) Also, his read on Acro and follow up feels like he thought that since he made this post: [ link] He feels like he should commit to a read on someone here: [ link] I don't think Acro is a worthy candidate. This line of thinking feels forced. I'd definitely be fine with thrawn being one of the duelists.
So why Keirathi? Why all the bravado about volunteering to be a duelist? No townie should want to be a duelist unless they feel super confident in their read -- at which point, they just ##Duel, not ask "DAE think my latest/greatest soft read is scum???"
And in the end, he doesn't even have to do it. Thrawn made out like a BANDIT with this duel.
I know I should be talking about adam/kier right now, but HOLY COW so many people got out of this one super well, including all of the lurkers/low contributors. All Sylencia has to do is vote and justify it; he doesn't have to forward unique reads on anybody but the two people. We could have spent 24 hours testing low contributors and seeing who their reads are when it has to be out of 11 other people, instead of just out of a pool of 2. Our ability to gain information has been CRIPPLED by a premature duel. We CANNOT do this again tomorrow.
Marv was killed for his analysis, and his number one scum read was Thrawn.... and he's not even up for a duel? Even Thrawn himself seemed fatalistic about it (which isn't very townie IMO), and the fact he was "rescued" from this duel super early in the day is incredibly anti-town.
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During those 12-16 hours, everyone on the western hemisphere was asleep. Do we really want the most important period of mafia to be done while only half of the town is awake, and not even allow the other half a say?
As far as between these two players, I think Adam's ##Duel is the most anti-town thing either of them have done. But I honestly haven't even looked through their filters yet; I just read through the thread, was amazed that this even happened, and went on a rant.
So I'll get back to you on that, but I really don't like what Adam did.
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I just had this big post on Adam that I accidentally closed the tab for. So I"m going to reconstruct it.
On February 25 2013 11:01 Adam4167 wrote:
I didn't imply I wanted to duel, I specifically stated it. You deem it 'way sketchy'. Is that scummy? if you think its scummy, then call it what it is. Its not 'PLAY BETTER OR DIE' its 'you have less than 24 hours to change my mind, or we duel'.
Contradiction in action -- while he did promise he'd duel people whether town agreed with him or not, he inferred he would wait until the end of the day so we could get discussion going.
On February 26 2013 16:56 Adam4167 wrote:
People can discuss it now. If they don't agree with my decision, then they can vote accordingly.
You were trying to back out of a half-assed scum read after a day of doing nothing because the thread wasn't biting.
What kind of townie invites others to lynch him based on policy reasons?
On February 26 2013 21:49 Adam4167 wrote:
LOL YEP, that quote looks quite bad.
I really wish I was scum, it'd make post-game far more bearable.
Town claim, and a fatalistic view. Town Adam just dropped the hammer and DUELED Keirathi because he's 95% coinfident in KEirathi scum. Town Adam would be pushing HARD for a Keirathi lynch -- not talking about how bad he'll feel when he's inevitably lynched. I mean, this was all under his control -- he STARTED the lynch. Why is he so fatalistic about it? What happened to "Take this into my own hands" Adam?
On February 26 2013 17:46 Adam4167 wrote:
My mafia play is lurky and passive, its right there in Hero mafia for everyone to see. If you think this is my mafia game, you're delusional.
This isn't a defense -- this is saying that you're not mafia because Mafia Adam behaves X way. All of Adam's effort post-duel have been him trying to prove that he's not scummy and defending his duel, instead of the supposed POINT of his duel -- lynching Keirathi.
+ Show Spoiler +On February 26 2013 21:15 Adam4167 wrote:
I cant even promise that this wont happen again if I survive this cycle.
This is what really worries me -- that Adam is Insane Town and if unchecked he will literally decide every single lynch choice for the rest of the game until we lynch him instead. This would mean a policy lynch of Adam, and I think that is not necessarily a very good move for town. If we're not convinced that Adam is scum, we need to persuade him against this behavior. But he looks pretty scummy, so this is kind of a moot point.
I think Adam looks really scummy, but I'm not voting for him right now. In this format, there's no time limit, so there's no way for people to unvote in response to a mafia bandwagon. If Adam gets all the votes to lynch him too quickly, multiple people can get away without voting or taking any stance at all between these two players. So I am withholding my vote until a bigger portion of the town have chimed in.
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Looking through Keirathi's filter, I don't have a full town read on him, but he doesn't look nearly as scummy as Sylencia or Thrawn, and not as suspicious as Dienosore, and certainly not as counterproductive to town goals as Adam.
The problem is that only Keirathi and Adam are up for lynch, and while I think three other people are more likely to be scum than either of these two, the question now is: Who is scummier? And while most of Adam's scummy traits can also be attributed to the Insane Town persona that is chasing him, he still has far more scummy traits than Keirathi does.
If there weren't nightly scum kills, I would want to no-lynch. This is a bad pairing; the only people who wanted Keirathi in a duel were Adam and Thrawn, and the only people who wanted Adam in a duel were Adam -- and if Adam is town, then scum.
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Why would scum suddenly throw caution to the wind to duel someone they have an unexplained read on? That's what I can't figure out.
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What I really find lacking is either of these people arguing why the other is scum.
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Is it curious to anyone else why Thrawn has had very little to say at all now that the duel is on? What's his reaction to not having to duel? He seems very... unconcerned.
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Who are you top scum reads? If you had to make a will before dying, what would you say?
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On February 27 2013 04:30 Acrofales wrote:
It IS the least informed lynch, I agree on that with you, which is why we want to gather as much information as possible about it, but as long as both Adam and Keir look terrible, why not kill both of them?
Because they DON'T both look terrible. They both look suspicious, but the problem with this whole duel is the fact that nobody wanted Adam in it except for Adam, and only two people wanted Keirathi in it. This is not a town-sanctioned duel, and so the scummiest people aren't in it. If we're ever going to double-lynch, let's have it be when town has actually put its two scummiest reads up for lynch, not when bad town goes after lurker town (this seems very possible).
When people are saying that Adam looks scummier than Keirathi, it's still all relative -- I'm not convinced he's scum, let alone that they're BOTH scum.
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Ok thrawn here with a baby on my lap. what do you want
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@Thrawn:
It's pretty clear why I didn't vote for Adam -- I explain it right at the end of my post. Because this format works off instant majority and not a time frame, there is no way to unvote out of a majority should something big come up that shakes everything up. I would rather wait for everyone to chime in before I place my actual vote, because if I contribute to an instant majority, I basically let half of town get out of this entire cycle without having to make a stake on anything.
So yes, my vote will be on Adam, but not yet.
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On February 27 2013 12:07 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 12:01 Dienosore wrote:[B]On February 27 2013 11:57 thrawn2112 wrote:
that dienosore is hella scummy for not being suspicious of obviously scummy keir. Maybe I am blind and have been missing something, but why is Keir obviously scummy? I'm not trying to argue here, I'm just looking for an honest discussion. If you have a good reason why Keir should be shot over Adam, I'm all ears. As it stands now, I just don't see it. keir has done fuck all this game........ that is something which is generally regarded as suspicious behavior. his only 2 reads so far are on 1) Adam: this read is entirely based on that one issue of whether not adam is maliciously trying to gain town cred 2) thrawn: he's only supported this read with meta. it is not very difficult for anyone to call out a lurker. when I called hiim out asking him to duel, he said he would but he didn't seem enthusiastic or eager to do so.... which if were town, thinking that I'm scum, he would be eager to duel his scum read
Is Keir more scummy than Sylencia or Snarfs?
And can't you say the exact same thing about Adam -- he basically only had 2 reads, and they were Dieno and Keir?
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On February 27 2013 12:13 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 12:03 zarepath wrote:
@Thrawn:
It's pretty clear why I didn't vote for Adam -- I explain it right at the end of my post. Because this format works off instant majority and not a time frame, there is no way to unvote out of a majority should something big come up that shakes everything up. I would rather wait for everyone to chime in before I place my actual vote, because if I contribute to an instant majority, I basically let half of town get out of this entire cycle without having to make a stake on anything.
So yes, my vote will be on Adam, but not yet. zare if you are town, remember the most recent newbie. what happens when people are scared to vote and to push their reads? 3 vote lynches happen. You are obviously nowhere near hammering adam so there's no need for you to wait on the thread first. If adam has 6 votes and you're scared he might get hammered prematurely you can always remove your vote. there's no reason not to vote unless you are the hammer vote.
This is completely different, I'll vote when I want, and I'm not going to get into a policy discussion with you.
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I'm becoming more and more convinced that Adam isn't scum, mostly because I haven't yet found a satisfying answer to why Scum Adam would do what he did, unless it was to save Thrawn from having to duel, at which point the whole thing is a stupid association case. So I went into Keirathi's filter with some more open eyes.
On February 25 2013 05:54 Keirathi wrote:
Fear the 10 paces, filthy scum.
I hate first post town claims.
On February 26 2013 02:47 Keirathi wrote:
thrawn, this is all weak as shit. iamp was your scumread and then you were possibly suspicious of Acro, and now you randomly want to have Hapa call a duel?
Remember, thrawn wasn't on-board witht he "two scummy people duel" idea. He said making all those policies was pointless.
So thrawn, why exactly do you want Hapa to duel? Do you think he is scum, or town? What is your ideal scenario for a duel? A strong townie vs a scum suspect? Or two scum suspects against each other?[/QUOTE]
He gets on Thrawn AFTER everyone else has already. This is actually pretty late in the thread. I don't like that Keirathi's first "real" contribution is piling on top of Thrawn with everyone else and not actually contributing much, just asking Fake Interrogator Questions.
On February 26 2013 10:50 Keirathi wrote:
It wasn't a pointless question (and thrawn never answered it either). Thrawn came out and said "hey guys, forget all this policy stuff, its pointless. Just play!"
Then, despite having no other mention of Hapa, as soon as other people start talking about him, thrawn was like "oh yea, hapa should duel tomorrow!" There's not even a read in there, since he took no stance on who *SHOULD* be dueling. It was just jumping onto thread sentiment with no thoughts towards Hapa from himself.
After Thrawn again. Marv has been vocal about Thrawn's scumminess all thread, and it's basically the only thing that Keir is going after. It looks like sheeping.
On February 27 2013 03:58 Keirathi wrote:
I thought it was just a stupid move. Arbitrarily, I think it was scummy because he cut off all discussion about other candidates, and felt like just straight OMGUS because I was trying to get some discussion out of something I viewed as scum motivated.
So was it "just a stupid move," or "scummy?" At this point everyone has declared it a very stupid move, so that's an easy sheep opinion to have, but also calling him scummy -- you either think he's scummy or stupid town.
Then he had the gall to say that he dueled because I was trying to back out of a half-assed scum read?
I feel like this is too emotional... phrases like "he had the gall" just seems too whiny to be substantive.
And for two, what happened to his scum read of Corazon earlier on night 0? Oh right, he backed out of it because of further discussion. Hell he even went so far as to say that he wasn't a "tunnel machine" and that he pulls out of tunnels all th e time. But if I try to get some discussion about something that I view as scummy to see if I'm just being paranoid, he gets all holy roller and pulls the trigger on the duel.
This isn't a case, it's whining.
The situation reminds me a lot of GSL 3 (i think?). I saw something that I genuinely viewed as scummy and brought it to the thread. I took a lot of flak for it, but the difference is people were willing to discuss it with me while they were calling me scum. And as I talked it out more, and got some other perspective views, I changed my read.
Why is he bringing this up? What's the motivation? He's basically saying that this is exactly like the time he was town, except only if Adam HADN'T dueled him, and if his scum read was wrong and needed to evolve. That's absolutely not a case on Adam, because in this meta reference he was wrong about his scum read, and Adam is his scum read in this case. Honestly the only connection I can see being relevant in the context of this post is the fact that he was town before. And bringing up a meta case like that, just for the sake of looking more town, in the middle of a post that is supposedly supposed to be your thoughts on Adam, seems scummy.
I don't like that he doesn't make a case on Adam and is only whining about being dueled. And I also don't like that he hasn't made a case on anyone/anything else SINCE being dueled.
On February 27 2013 03:48 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 03:31 zarepath wrote:
Who are you top scum reads? If you had to make a will before dying, what would you say? My reads haven't changed. I still think thrawn is likely scum because of his jumping around following thread sentiments, and I still see possible scum motivation in the Adam thing that I was trying to talk about. I'll write up some more later this evening when I get home, but I don't think an hour is enough time right now.
It's been a night and he hasn't posted his reads. It's convenient that NONE of his reads have changed... but he didn't even HAVE reads on anybody other than those two people. Sure he still thinks what he thought about them, but he literally hasn't thought ANYTHING about anybody else, and hasn't even bothered to think ANYTHING since?
On February 26 2013 16:03 Keirathi wrote:
I'd appreciate it if someone could look at my points about Adam and give some comments other than "lol bad".
Wanted people to talk about Adam, really wanted it bad.
On February 26 2013 14:49 Keirathi wrote:
I would be fine dueling thrawn.
Why would town be fine with dueling? It's not like Keirathi even had a great case on Thrawn. Although, at the same time, why would scum be fine with dueling? Like others have said, NOT wanting to duel looks worse if you're scum. I don't know how to read this, but it's a very clear statement of intent for somebody whose ONLY read has been Thrawn, and hasn't even built a real strong case on him.
##Vote Keirathi
Adam isn't scum. I just don't see the scum motivation for what he did at all.
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Adam just screams impulsive town to me. The scum motivation isn't there, he's actually given reads since the duel started, and we will have a pretty good idea as to his alignment if Keirathi flips scum.
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On February 28 2013 00:50 Oatsmaster wrote:
Wait, Cora so what do you think about Adam saying that he would do it again?
Do you think that scum would EVER say that???
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Alderan, will you vote for Keirathi then? Adam looks more town than Keirathi does.
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EPT
