EPTI also see your very committal vote onto someone who hasn't even posted yet. My vote remains and we'll see how the rest of the day unfolds.
Newbie Mini Mafia XXXVII - Page 2
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
I also see your very committal vote onto someone who hasn't even posted yet. My vote remains and we'll see how the rest of the day unfolds. | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
On February 12 2013 05:59 cDgCorazon wrote: [/b]However, I'll hold off on the WIFOM Eh, go ahead and WIFOM, I can't blame you for it | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
Last game Cora and I had together, I laid into him with a massive WIFOM case when we were both town. | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
I know who I'm voting for, but want to see the lurkers come out to avoid complicating things down the road. Hopefully the next 12 hours or so will yield some fruit from those trees. | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
On February 12 2013 20:09 glurio wrote: Well i agree that my case on sn0 is weak at best. Honestly, i made it because i promised to make one. After reading the filter i didn't find anything too scummy, except his endless posting about lurkers. So yeah, WoS had it right. Also the reason why i didn't vote or FoS sn0. Not sure if massive scum slip or . . . | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
From the beginning of my WoS case: On February 12 2013 00:38 zarepath wrote: Firstly, let me add my thoughts to your reads (other than warbaby). Although Sn0_Man has posted minimal contribution and his longest post is about the English language, it looks as though he went to bed, so I am not going to look too deeply at him until he comes back. It is certainly still up to him to contribute as of yet; however, I am kind of in the same boat, so I can't fault him for that just yet. Kindly explain why Mandalor is so high on your list; I don't see much scum in his few posts, and wouldn't mind clarification. Excusing warbaby as a bad townie and soft-attacking Mocsta and Sn0_Man is all that glurio's done. I think he's in mine and Sn0_Man's boat right now -- wait and see, in other words. Wave of Shadow, though, is a whole other matter. Please see the bolded capitals of the first four lines of my case post. Sorry to stress you out, Wave, but you were actually an early town read for me. I saw that a warbaby lynch was becoming inevitable, and I wanted to give scum an alternative bandwagon to see what they would do and made a completely confirmation-biased case (which is apparently pretty easy to make with the first 7 posts of any poster this game). While I have been pretty AFK since I made this case, I've been paying attention to how people reacted to it, especially those who agreed or came on board without actually addressing or picking apart the case. I was hoping for the case to last a little longer, but I don't foresee scum jumping aboard anymore as it's lost some of its steam (and WoS has looked very pro-town), and figured it was time to pull back the curtains and help foster some real dialogue moving forward. I'm going to take this morning to go through and really analyze everyone's reactions, but the two reactions I remember best are warbaby's immediate latching-onto the case without voting, and then geript's vote (which he hasn't unvoted, or evolved his read in any way). I'll have more in five or six hours or so. | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
But there's plenty of other stuff in his filter to look at, imo. | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
in order of appearance + Show Spoiler + On February 12 2013 00:45 warbaby wrote: FoS WaveofShadow I'm not voting until we've had more time for the remaining lurkers to report in, and Shadow can respond to zarepath. I agree with zarepath that the people actually voting me aren't looking that scummy; compared to those just trawling for a convenient bandwagon. On February 12 2013 00:46 cDgCorazon wrote: Thank you Zare. I liked the points in your analysis for the 3rd and 4th posts. While it's not enough to make me vote for him (and I'd like to see his defense), a lot of the same things could be said about many players (especially with the non scum-hunting). The point that town never uses WIFOM made me laugh (you know why). Maybe you should rethink using WIFOM as a 100% scum tell (yeah it's scummy but if town Zare (from last game) does it why can't other towns do it and not be scum?). On February 12 2013 00:52 Mocsta wrote: Guys im going to bed. zarepath, I am not sure if the start of your post was addressed to me? If so, I had mandalor as null read; he said a few things but until he follows through its all NON-alignment indicative. btw, quite a few decent points in that case; I think some are educated assumptions, and others are really contradictory to ideal town play. Will wait and see what wave has to say for himself before proceeding further. On February 12 2013 01:06 Sevryn wrote: @ zare Thats a very interesting case you made. I think you over looked the fourth post a little bit in that the way it was worded is basically setting up WoS to defend any lurker he doesn't want lynched and any lurker he does want lynched with a line of qualitative additions which could be interpreted any which way. On February 12 2013 01:19 warbaby wrote: EBWOP: Not to say that I won't vote for someone that makes an obvious scumslip D1, but nobody has done that so far (except maybe WoS). On February 12 2013 01:20 Mandalor wrote: I feel like this is the most interesting part of the case. "Don't look much into it". What is that? Townies should be comfortable with others analysing them. In fact, the more townies do that, the less scum will be able to sway them. I don't like his overly town attitude ("my town" etc.) and the fact that (apart from a few weak attacks on Mocsta), he didn't analyse anybody yet. ##FoS: WaveOfShadow On February 12 2013 01:33 Sn0_Man wrote: Regarding the WaveOfShadow case, I see some merit there but I'm still not here to lynch posting players unless more comes up. I agree with Mandalor about what part of the case is compelling. Unprompted soft AND hard town claims with some fairly stupid follow up excuses. On February 12 2013 01:40 geript wrote: @zarepth On the first couple of reads I like the case. I'll come back with more after my test. Wish me luck! On February 12 2013 05:25 warbaby wrote: FWIW, Mocsta's play is a bit like his scum play in XXXV, but maybe it's also his idea of optimal town play (which is why he tried to do it as scum in 35 -- as a ruse). I don't see anything scummy in what Mocsta's done (other than some meta wifom crap based on his play in 35). I'm not dismissing the scum Mocsta idea, but I think zarepath's case on WaveofShadow is much more concrete at this point. I'm waiting to hear more from WaveofShadow before I consider voting him. I am also more interested in lynching lurkers (than Mocsta) if WoS makes a non-scummy defense. I do not really count glurio as a lurker -- his last post was very atypical of his scum play in 36 and counts as a real contribution in my book. I also expect he'll continue making decent contributions before D1 is over. On February 12 2013 05:44 Sn0_Man wrote: WoS has basically managed to come up with: I'm not scum, Honest! Plz forgive terribad posting, I promise to improve. I'm happy to give him another day, but that defense hardly clears his name. On February 12 2013 05:48 geript wrote: @zare Second post: + Show Spoiler + On February 11 2013 11:21 WaveofShadow wrote: As far as I'm concerned, early game banter based on taking offense to others cheap shots or picking apart grammar is useless and should just be ignored. I'm fairly sure at this point enough people have declined the RNG vote so the topic should be dropped by everyone. Can the scumhunting begin now? Your other points are valid in that none if his posts have been effective. In context, his third post seems worse to me than anything else as Mocsta asks him to "Lead the way" and he takes a reasonably impassioned LAL stance which is unlikely to draw any attention. You do miss a post re: filter burying of which the highlight is While he returns to lurking after that, it's a valid point that has been brought up a few times now but started, imo, with Sno's earlier post: His last post is more of the same. While I still don't like Mocsta so far, your case is better and his last post nails it in for me. Ummm what? So, you're seeing alarm bells and aren't interested in putting pressure on them. Instead you're more interested in deflecting towards anyone else? You have clearly no interest in trying to make a case whatsoever or in doing any analysis. ##change vote waveofshadow On February 12 2013 05:59 cDgCorazon wrote: WoS- Zare already made a good case against him. Reading through his defense, he says: Note the bolded lines. He says that he regrets a few posts, but stands by them anyways. That appears a little bit contradictory to me. Why doesn't he just admit that he made a mistake and keep it at that? Why would he make a post full of WIFOM and only apologize for it when he gets called out on it? The next thing he does, once he's defended himself, is voted for a lurker. Now LAL isn't a bad policy, but it should not be used 30 hours before a lynch. That's just being lazy. It's giving up on all discussion for 30 hours (if one is going to stick with LAL), and it allows the scum to escape the radar D1 as long as they are slightly active (and it's not hard to make cases on people D1 as there are many players that can be targeted). Voting for Macheji this early is a scummy move to me and one that should be looked at further. I'm less suspicious on WoS than Geript, but I'm still curious. I'll keep my eye on him. On February 12 2013 07:07 warbaby wrote: Also WoS's post is a start in the right direction. IMO none of the proposed cases have enough merit to be worth voting scum at this point. And I don't see why we'd want to lynch glurio right now, over someone with actually zero posts. On February 12 2013 09:57 Mocsta wrote:
- Guy effectively says, great posts I am going to struggle to refute…
Whats important to me, is that on Day1 (post 24hrs) there are two guys that majorly fucked up. (warbaby and WoS) The question comes down to: are they both bad townie; are they both bad scum; or is one bad townie, one bad scum. Look at the approach warbaby Does not address case criteria Incites emotional arguments Continues to flame people, even when they agree to back off Just blindly follows others, once the heat is off. WaveofShadow Attempts to address case criteria Blindly follows others (voting lurkers) Puts some analysis into Glurio post The key differentiator is that WoS admits the situation outright, and has tried to still contribute (some parts blind following, other parts on his own accord). Im reading WoS as pretty genuine right now; and am willing to put him at this stage as “bad townie” Warbaby simply has done nothing to establish his innocence all game; My analysis and my gut is still telling me “first time scum”. On February 12 2013 10:28 warbaby wrote: Me vs WaveofShadow is a false dichotomy, Mocsta. What about sylencia? He could easily be a scum trying to blend in. I can't seriously vote WaveofShadow when there are other people who have made very small contributions. On February 12 2013 20:09 glurio wrote: I'll make it easier for you mandalor. What do you think about WoS right now? Can you elaborate on the scumminess of mocsta? A summary of the timeline: 1. warbaby absolutely hops onto it and FoSes without digging any deeper 2. Cora likes two specific points I made, but cautions that a lot of what I said could be said about others, and that my WIFOM point wasn't necessarily true in my own case last game 3. Mocsta generally likes it but thinks some tells are just educated assumptions on WoS's part and we have to wait to see what else he produces 4. Sevryn likes the case and adds some WIFOM to it 5. warbaby suggests that no one's made an obvious scum slip (except maybe WoS) 6. Mandalor emphasizes my point about WoS telling others to not analyze him, adds in the stuff about "my town" 7. Sn0 likes the case, but doesn't want to lynch an active player today 8. geript likes my case on first couples of reads, will post more later (has a test) 9. warbaby says my case is concrete but won't vote until he sees his defense 10. Sn0 really dislikes WoS's defense 11. geript analyzes my case, points out one of my points which wasn't really valid, but likes the others and votes for him 12. cora doesn't like WoS's defense, analyzes it a bit 13. warbaby says that WoS's posting is good enough for now to not vote for him 14. Mocsta analyzes WoS's defense and posting, reads him as genuine 15. warbaby emphasizes not having to vote for WoS 16. glurio wants Mandalor's read on the WoS case Have to go to work now, but I think that looking at this, you can separate players into how seriously they took this case as opposed to just bandwagoning on it. | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
On February 13 2013 02:34 geript wrote: I think the real question is that if Zare's initial post was fake, why wouldn't s/he re-evaluate it before removing the vote off you? Making a fake case is perfectly fine and has it's uses at points imo. But being fake doesn't mean that the case has no value. Because his actions read town. I think Mocsta explained it pretty well, actually, when he contrasted his response to your response to being attacked. And since then he's been pretty active in scum hunting. I'll certainly still look at him, but he's not on my current radar. | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
On February 13 2013 02:36 Sn0_Man wrote: Regarding Mandalor, voting a lurker with more than a day left to lynch is a safe vote, not a pressure vote. Its a "well now that my vote is down I can go back to hiding and only change it if I need to" kind of vote. Admitting that it is a "pressure vote" also defeats the purpose (as Sylencia has pointed out). Town care about their votes, as votes are (generally) the only power they have. Scum want their votes to give away as little information as possible, to cheapen the very concept of a vote. It should be decently clear which of those two things random "pressure votes" are. Including some of the ones you have thrown around too. Yes, but you're speaking more to the effectiveness of his actions than to the inherent scumminess of them. | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
But I'm pretty sure he went out of his way to talk about several people that weren't already bieng talked about. Will check the filter again while I check everyone else's, but I think you're exaggerating and perhaps reading too much into it. And here's a question -- what is a non-sheepable case? It's not something I've thought about before and apparently people are talking about sheepable cases. What's the difference? | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
On February 13 2013 04:34 Mandalor wrote: Right now, I would vote Sylencia. His response so far hasn't changed anything for me concerning his odd behavior with warbaby. WB never soft-claimed anything - yet Syl gives us this odd post saying he's most likely vig or scum. That is the opposite of helpful for town. I can't think of a use for this information at this point in the game. Elimination surely can't be it when we don't know any role yet. That combined with his uncharacteristic (I think? at least have that in my mind) lurking (yeah yeah I know, but I have posted more here than I did in any game yet) makes him my top scum read for now. If nothing big comes up that will be my vote for tonight (will probably have to vote in 4 or 5 hours and call it a day). I recommend you do a full case on his filter outlining more than just that SINGLE reason for him being scummy. | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
On February 13 2013 04:48 Sn0_Man wrote: Well, that basically is Sylencia's whole filter... You have yet to explain the value to lynching Macheji. Since Macheji is currently not part of this game (in any meaningful fashion) you are currently voting for a no-lynch, which is generally accepted as terrible day 1. Unless you are psychic and know what his replacement will say day 2? Now, if Macheji/9-bit show up shortly before the deadline to vote, then by all means we lynch them ded, but for now... you are not helping town with that vote. As I spent so long explaining to mandalor. Here's the thing -- we don't KNOW that he'll be replaced, and it is actually to scum's advantage for replacements to come in because we have less info on them if they ARE scum and have plenty of excuses to roll with, and if they're NOT scum town is still going to spend a bunch of energy wondering about this mysterious replacement when they come in. | ||
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