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On February 15 2013 06:09 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2013 10:05 Sylencia wrote:
I was roleblocked last night.
Unfortunate for WoS and geript, but I believe it's more likely to be an SK over Vig here, since I mentioned Vig shooting N1 and was told it was 'too risky' for them to do it by Warbaby. Note that there is only a mafia roleblocker. If sylencia is not lying, there will still be a mafia roleblocker on N2 (unless we lynch the mafia roleblocker today). So there's a good chance if TestSubject is not night killed, he will be role blocked instead. We definitely should not have any more towns claiming blue at this point, in case there is a mafia roleblocker alive N2. And no, because I used the word "blue" in a post does not mean I'm soft claiming blue =_=
On January 28 2013 09:38 Acrofales wrote:
Jailkeeper
Every night you may choose one person to jail. You will protect them from 1 KP and prevent them using any role they might have. Neither you nor your target will be informed of successful saves.
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Also we already talked about this. Did you skip part of the thread, warbaby?
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On February 15 2013 06:13 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 06:05 TestSubject893 wrote:Also this post + Show Spoiler +On February 14 2013 12:35 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2013 12:26 Sevryn wrote:On February 14 2013 12:22 Mocsta wrote:On February 14 2013 12:19 Sevryn wrote:
Hey mocsta why did you say mr. sk but not scum? do you already know he isn't scum? Hi Mr. lurker, Well I didnt think he was scum before the killing, so wasn't a natural thought to assume he is scum now. Either way; I am certain he is scum/SK now; and should be the lynch candidate for today. Are you going to continue lurking and taking snipes? Or are you going to join town and rid us of EVIL !! hey im working on not lurking and have posted my views on corazon which I would love to hear what you think about it. if we decide to lynch OO which I think we should We have Two whole days to talk about who to lynch next which is a huge bonus. i do think we should stay away from arguements that involve speculating on what his flip means till he flips that way we dont get distracted on what it means. hmmm, Corazon hasnt been on my mind to be honest; I think someone made a case (?Geript IIRC) - which I guess is suspect, knowing that that OO killed WoS no matter alignment. I can look into it; but I still want more information from zarepath first. this SK dilemna has clouded the thread somewhat (deserving though albeit) so things like my questions to zarepath are buried. Taking a break regardless strikes me as Mocsta trying to deflect the conversation away from talking about Corazon. Could be nothing though. Since I believe you are Watcher, I am willing to collaborate with you on a Mocsta/Corazon case -- please review the Mocsta filters I linked earlier. But since I believe your claim, we must kill ObviousOne first. If Obvious flips scum, I'm less likely to believe you are actually Watcher. I'm more than happy to entertain the idea that you've fake claimed and are bussing Obvious. If there is a real Watcher, your fake claim might force the real Watcher to counterclaim, and then you can kill the real Watcher. Watcher is a powerful role and it might be worth scum trying to trade a goon for a Watcher by fake claiming.
I'm not saying he's SK for sure, so I'm not sure why him flipping scum changing anything. If anything, you should be wary of me now and him flipping SK makes you trust me more, not giving me the benefit of the doubt.
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Again, I think sn0_man is making a good point. Warbaby is definitely looking like either scum or poorly played town.
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On February 15 2013 06:43 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 06:40 TestSubject893 wrote:
Again, I think sn0_man is making a good point. Warbaby is definitely looking like either scum or poorly played town. Big reads time TS893. Here you call our WB. Cora, your lead scum read as of like 3 posts ago spent all day yesterday campaigning HARD for WB's lynch (probably harder than scum would dare bus D1 but thats WIFOM). Who is scum and who is (bad) town? As a confirmed townie, at least we know your reads aren't scum-biased (although that says nothing about their correctness).
Right now I'd say Cora is scum and wb is just playing a style that turns out to be really terrible for town.
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Also, while I'm thinking about it, Sevryn, geript, Mandalor and Sylencia are entirely under my radar right now. I don't really have opinions on them and that's bad. Anybody have anything to say about them? Let's not beat up on the more active members just for posting more.
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Oh, yeah. Sorry about that. No wonder he's under the radar~ With all my fuss about the WoS kill its easy to forget there were 2 kills N1.
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Cora, like I already said, the wording of your posts and timing of your actions at the end of D1 and N1 just strike me as especially scummy. When we look at your actions alone, it amounts to nearly ideal mafia play if you can get away with it and the environment you posted your will in and the way it was worded just really jumped out at me as "Hey look at me, just another townie". I don't see that as WIFOM at all. Someone going out of their way to get town cred is scummy, there is no speculation or leveling here.
I'm not sure there's much you can say that will change my mind right now either. I understand you have given reasoning for your actions, but it all just lined up too well for me to not be suspicious still. We've got plenty of time before potentially lynching you, so for now you're just sitting at the top of my list. Convince me someone else is scummier if you want out of that spot.
As for me thinking WB is probably town being WIFOM, I don't really see that either. He strikes me as someone who isn't putting a lot of thought into his strategy. That's really all that read comes down to.
So that brings me to a question for you. What did you think was WIFOM based about my argument to begin with?
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On February 15 2013 07:50 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 07:40 TestSubject893 wrote:
Cora, like I already said, the wording of your posts and timing of your actions at the end of D1 and N1 just strike me as especially scummy. When we look at your actions alone, it amounts to nearly ideal mafia play if you can get away with it and the environment you posted your will in and the way it was worded just really jumped out at me as "Hey look at me, just another townie". I don't see that as WIFOM at all. Someone going out of their way to get town cred is scummy, there is no speculation or leveling here.
I'm not sure there's much you can say that will change my mind right now either. I understand you have given reasoning for your actions, but it all just lined up too well for me to not be suspicious still. We've got plenty of time before potentially lynching you, so for now you're just sitting at the top of my list. Convince me someone else is scummier if you want out of that spot.
As for me thinking WB is probably town being WIFOM, I don't really see that either. He strikes me as someone who isn't putting a lot of thought into his strategy. That's really all that read comes down to.
So that brings me to a question for you. What did you think was WIFOM based about my argument to begin with? Well if there's literally nothing I can do to change your mind, that's called confirmation bias.You've said that my actions D1 and N1 have been scummy. I'm guessing you don't agree with my reasoning to vote Glurio. Let's say I am scum. I've been tunneling WB (I'll admit it) almost all of D1. Why would I switch to Glurio so late and in such an obviously bad place if I were scum? Why would I go and cement the lynch of a townie when I could just sit on WB (assuming he is town/that I am scum) and everyone would be ok with that. I'm saying your arguments are WIFOM is because you are saying WB is town, so I must be scum for going after him. Either that or you think I am scum, so WB is automatically town to you. Either way is just so much WIFOM, and failing to take into account that town does not know who the other towns are. Town wanting to vote out other towns is a possibility in this game, don't forget that. I called for the town to lynch an active voice, and no one responded to my call. As such, I was forced to choose between 2/3 sub-optimal lynches. I never said I was happy with the lynch. The problem I have with your argument (once again) is that you're only focusing on me and my vote when 2 other people contributed to lynch Glurio, and 5-6 votes were wasted. Please answer those questions as well, because I'm starting to get the feeling you are tunneling me and getting confirmation bias, which is bad.
First off, what you described is not confirmation bias. I am not taking new facts and interpreting them as support for my existing view point when they are not.
Here's your problem:
I'm saying your arguments are WIFOM is because you are saying WB is town, so I must be scum for going after him.
I never said this. In fact, that has nothing to do with why I think you're scum.
Let me take highlight this snippet from my longer post a few pages ago:
On February 15 2013 05:58 TestSubject893 wrote:
Corazon still has my eye as the scummiest player (other than OO). When I read through D1 I kept asking myself "how does this turn into a glurio lynch?". The answer was Corazon's vote. It made glurio the first to 3 votes, effectively guarenteeing that either glurio or sevryn would be lynched. I also read the begining of his N1 will as "Look at me, I'm town just like everyone else". The first part is just more long-winded than it needs to be, of course you think you can die tonight if you're town; there's no need to explain that.
Your will, in context, could have said "Guys, don't forget: I'm town.". The fact that you continue to ignore my repeated references to it is only worsening my opinion of you and it.
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On February 15 2013 07:57 Mandalor wrote:
Could you please just ask me questions?
I don't know what to say really. I know I've been inactive for real reasons but I actually had time to read the thread for some time now. Other than voting for OO which is the only option to do now, I have nothing to say. There hasn't been any real insight in the last post in my eyes.
His whole buddying up with me ("Mandalor has the tools blabla") sounds more like scum to me than SK, but either way it's a good choice.
Honestly, I don't know what to say at this point. Please ask me questions. I'll be here for another hour and I'll be back in another 11.
On February 15 2013 06:52 Mocsta wrote:
An an aside; I am starting to really not like Mandalor; pretty shitty filter AND not scum hunting from what I saw.
Mandalor
Please share top scum read; why; and lead some pressure
I want to see a case too, if you don't mind -says more about you then the target.
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Apparently Mandalor was not interested in sharing....
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Catching up on the thread for the morning here's my thoughts.
I really don't like the way Mocsta handled the questioning from WB about his opinions on Cora on pages 60-61. Its brought me to the point of thinking that if Cora is in fact scum, then Mocsta almost certainly is too. That's too rash actually, there's plenty of situations where they have opposite alignments.
Corazon then jumps in and starts diverting attention away from Mocsta (be it on purpose or not). He then essentially implies that we shouldn't be discussing anything else for the rest of D2 + Show Spoiler +On February 15 2013 14:13 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 14:10 cDgCorazon wrote:
These are the posts that I've made that include your name since I said I was done attacking you until you decided that I was attacking you still.
...
Please tell me where I attack you at all in these posts. Not posting about other players (because by the time I got back OO had been ousted as SK) does not mean I am attacking you still. I'm not giving out scum reads because at this point OO is going to be lynched and it would be useless to make a case against someone else as the case would not lead to a lynch (for example, I made my case on you 5 hours into D1 and after a couple of hours it did not go anywhere else). So again, not posting about other players does not mean I am attacking you still. Stop being so emotional.
On February 15 2013 18:45 Mocsta wrote:
Its actually a common occurrence to ask for shorter cycles when a lynch is universally agreed.
If town was actively conversing than yes. Keep the cycle full.
But don't try and bullshit me as if lots of flowing conversation occurred.
P.s. thanks for ignoring my succinct reasoning for your scum slip.
Do u always cherry pick what you respond to?
WB is trying to converse, but you and Corazon just keep insisting that we should not be.
(Mocsta was addressing WB in this post)
On February 15 2013 18:56 Mocsta wrote:
Everything you say is based off poorly reasoned arguments, and rash conclusions founded upon no merit.
I personally think that WB is asking reasonable questions (especially for a newbie game). The fact that no one is answering him is concerning to me.
My conclusion from reading all this: Corazon is fishier than ever. He keeps deflecting all questioning with "I was tunneling WB and I admitted it already, leave me alone." even when that does not apply to the questioning. On top of that, he entirely ignored my post responding to his blatant attempt to defame me, although he was gone at the time I posted it, I still expected a response.
I do think its likely that Mocsta and Corazon are scum buddies, but there's plenty of WIFOM to be had about Cora setting this situation up to bring Mocsta down with him, so I'm not quite ready to start killing people based on this part of the theory yet.
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Just got back, catching up on thread now.
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On February 15 2013 23:11 Mocsta wrote:Testuser: I am not sure if we are reading the same thread here? warbaby - consistently insinuates associations
- consistently misrepresents information
- consistently cherry picks a sentence in a wall of text
- consistently ignores rational argument directed his way
- & consistently infers his actions are pro-town; whilst being in complete contradiction to his original "promises"
If you want to keep looking at corazon I won't stop you. - I said before it is his job to convince you of his alignment.
However; if you want to assume corazon and I are a team; I am going to have to stop you right there..
Firstly, the only reason association was brought up was because you were looking into corazon; and found it odd I did not want to concentrate on him. This has now been explained twice Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 16:19 Mocsta wrote:
If anything, I have *not* been discussing you. Keep It Simple Stupid: As stated before, I have a town read on you.
The goal of this game is to find scum; not have a townie love fest.
The only person I spoke about being town was TestSubject (as he was essentially confirmed) Again, why is that scum-alignment indicative? You are working off associations founded upon assumptions. Mafia is about flipping one player and then making the associations. Lets work through the logic.Corazon flips town; then what? The entire association case falls apart; unless you are warbaby, then I become de facto scum. Anyone that targets warbaby is scum right... Corazon flips scum; again, then what? How does my interaction today prove I am in a scum team? (Simply, that evidence on it own does not; and fuck me if I am going to have my first mislynch under this condition) The same logic applies with me as the lynch candidate. Fact: One interaction does not make two people scum. If you were not 'essentially' confirmed town; I could say you and Sn0_Man are a scum team because of the glowing review you gave him.... But I didn't (and neither did others), because that is an illogical stance to assume - just like the situation present.
Secondly, the only reason this item of association was re-raised was due to the misrepresentation of warbabyShow nested quote +On February 15 2013 13:32 warbaby wrote:You say here that you haven't been thinking of Corazon much, but then when I search for "Corazon" if your full filter, I get 42 hits! Do you want to know why this is an example of misrepresentation? - Some of those counts are from pre-game
- Some of those counts are from quotes I have responded too
- Some of those hits are from nested quotes when responding to OTHERS
I am not going to comment on the times I referenced corazon directly, because frankly, it does not matter. In reality; I did not mention corazon much throughout Day1. Just as there are others that did not catch my attention. This is the way of a game of forum-mafia. I can go into anyone's filter and find people they have not questioned.
What is the point, and why is this alignment indicative - without a red flip
I do feel like I must be reading a different thread because not only can no one get my username right, but it seems like half the time people don't even notice when I post something directed at them~
Seriously though, the thing that's scummy about your interaction with Corazon is the way you're doing it, not the interaction itself. Like I said twice, I'm not confident enough with the association to take any actions on it, its just something I was noting; therefore I pointed it out to others as well.
Secondly, the only reason this item of association was re-raised was due to the misrepresentation of warbaby
This simply isn't true. It has nothing to do with why I thought those actions were suspicious. I don't know why people keep thinking I said things I didn't. Maybe its the different thread things again....
On February 15 2013 23:28 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 18:45 Mocsta wrote:
Its actually a common occurrence to ask for shorter cycles when a lynch is universally agreed.
If town was actively conversing than yes. Keep the cycle full.
But don't try and bullshit me as if lots of flowing conversation occurred.
P.s. thanks for ignoring my succinct reasoning for your scum slip.
Do u always cherry pick what you respond to? Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 22:19 TestSubject893 wrote:
WB is trying to converse, but you and Corazon just keep insisting that we should not be. TestUser, can you please clarify who "we" is. I assume you imply town; if so, I am genuinely surprised by this; as I thought I was a proponent of town continuing scum hunting. Further, I am confused by the statement in general, even though it is written plain and simple. Are you inferring: that you disagree with the above comments I directed to warbaby?
Show nested quote +(Mocsta was addressing WB in this post) On February 15 2013 18:56 Mocsta wrote:
Everything you say is based off poorly reasoned arguments, and rash conclusions founded upon no merit.
I personally think that WB is asking reasonable questions (especially for a newbie game). The fact that no one is answering him is concerning to me. If you think his questions are reasonable fine; I believe I addressed a majority of them regardless. However: What is concerning to me TestUser; is that you do not seem to notice (or case) warbaby is actually the one who blatantly ignores any criticisms/comments directed his way. I simply do not understand how when two people react, and exhibit the same behaviour; one is reasonable, the other becomes 'something else'?
"We" in that post is the town.
The reason I treat WB and Cora differently is because they are clearly playing differently. WB has tons of errors in all his posts, posts as if he doesn't read the thread half the time, and everyone has a scum read on him already. Cora does not do those things. As a result, I analyze them differently.
+ Show Spoiler [Corazon quotes] +On February 16 2013 00:50 cDgCorazon wrote:
Testsubject, I literally have two things to say to your pressure on me:
1. Stop using association cases (and getting confirmation bias on everything since the association case)
2. I've already explained why I voted for Glurio. If you have any questions about that post, I'd be happy to answer them. On February 16 2013 00:52 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 00:51 Sn0_Man wrote:
What I want to know is why does Sevryn get such an utter free ride from so many people (especially mocsta/Cora)? Sure people mention his name when they call our low contribution members, but when its down to who might be scum, his name never even pops up... Cause I'm trying to deal with an emotional WB and TestUser trying to ask me things I've answered 15 times... On February 16 2013 01:52 cDgCorazon wrote:
I just want to say to TestSubject as well:
1. Stop making the same reads as Geript and bring something original to the table.
2. Just because you are confirmed town does not mean you can start making stupid cases and not actually trying.
Corazon is just a broken record at this point. All he can say is "I already addressed everyone's concerns, so no one can rightfully be suspicious of me." and "TestSubject is untrustworthy because of confirmation bias". I've said 3 times already that the timing of his vote and the context/wording of will is enough evidence for me to keep him high on my list no matter what his reasoning was. Apparently this is grounds to try and slander the only confirmed town for him, because it seems that's what he's trying to do.
He also still hasn't responded to me calling him out for putting words in my mouth and misusing termonoly in an attempt defame me.
Despite my how much Corazon's play is annoying me right now, zare is right. We need to stop giving the lurkers so much slack let's focus some effort there and stop beating up on the people who actually post for a little while.
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On February 16 2013 08:20 cDgCorazon wrote:
TS you need to tell me what you want me to answer from my reasoning behind voting Glurio. You're not giving me any room to defend myself. The reason I'm sounding like a broken record is because you won't give me any room to defend myself. Do you want me to keep requoting my justification post? I don't think so. Ask me specific questions about my vote. Saying you don't like it and then not asking me further questions is a scummy case.
I did not say anything about you being "untrustworthy", I said your case on me did not have any merit because of the association crap.
I don't understand your logic behind the difference between Warbaby and I is that I act calm under pressure and WB doesn't. Why would a town not act calm under pressure if they have nothing to hide? You have some backwards logic here.
Being all nervous under pressure= You have something to hide
Not being nervous under pressure= You either don't have something to hide or you are really good at keeping calm
It's a null point that invites a whole bunch of WIFOM.
How many times do I have to say it? I don't care what your say your reasoning was, your actions were suspicious to me. There's nothing really to discuss. I have no questions; your actions spoke for themselves.
Mocsta asked why I treated you and WB with different standards. The answer is that you two play differently. I was just answering his question.
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On February 16 2013 08:55 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2013 08:39 TestSubject893 wrote:On February 16 2013 08:20 cDgCorazon wrote:
TS you need to tell me what you want me to answer from my reasoning behind voting Glurio. You're not giving me any room to defend myself. The reason I'm sounding like a broken record is because you won't give me any room to defend myself. Do you want me to keep requoting my justification post? I don't think so. Ask me specific questions about my vote. Saying you don't like it and then not asking me further questions is a scummy case.
I did not say anything about you being "untrustworthy", I said your case on me did not have any merit because of the association crap.
I don't understand your logic behind the difference between Warbaby and I is that I act calm under pressure and WB doesn't. Why would a town not act calm under pressure if they have nothing to hide? You have some backwards logic here.
Being all nervous under pressure= You have something to hide
Not being nervous under pressure= You either don't have something to hide or you are really good at keeping calm
It's a null point that invites a whole bunch of WIFOM.How many times do I have to say it? I don't care what your say your reasoning was, your actions were suspicious to me. There's nothing really to discuss. I have no questions; your actions spoke for themselves. Mocsta asked why I treated you and WB with different standards. The answer is that you two play differently. I was just answering his question. Why is it "damned if you do, damned if you don't"? That's the same stuff I did that took all of the momentum out of the WB case...
That's just how I see the facts. Its not like we're about to kill you. Being on the list of candidates D3 isn't going hurt you if you really are town.
At this point I think we've both had enough of this. Let's stop butting heads and drop it for now.
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By the way, ObviousOne, you've been a really good sport and a lot of fun this last day. It really is too bad we have to kill you today.
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The way you worded some of your post struck me as suspicious, but you didn't get a lot of scrutiny from the town making you a good person to carry out a kill if you were in fact mafia.
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Hmmm, that's a good question Corazon. I don't have an answer, and unfortunately for us this is the stereotypical scenario when we find ourselves stuck with WIFOM logic. Maybe someone can come up with something useful though.
And while we're addressing the town at large, I want to take this chance to remind the Jailkeeper that you can shield me from 1 KP tonight if you're out there~
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Let me guess, you think they're just trying to set you up? 
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EPT
