EPTLooks like a good game to try to improve.
Nomination Mafia
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
Looks like a good game to try to improve. | ||
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phagga
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@Mocsta On February 06 2013 12:23 Mocsta wrote: You realise that your post structure is mimicking your play from Mafia LIX right? (You were scum) Agreed, the things I am writing about are not revelations. Is this game that solved for you, that anytime someone writes something it has to be 100% original and never heard of before? Is that your criteria of good town play? If you want me to expound on what constitutes solid town play. It is to avoid the copying your play. And I will comment on this for one last time. The game is not as simple as "lynch the scummiest player"; otherwise scummy looking town like you would be insta-voted off. This game requires more reason and effort put into cases to identify motives behind actions. If you cant see that, you may as well quit and let someone who wants to take this game seriously replace you. What was your rationale behind posting the bolded part? | ||
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On February 06 2013 16:46 Oatsmaster wrote: Fuck you VE, I WILL NEVER SUBMIT. I AM ALWAYS RIGHT AND ALL OF YOU ARE FOOLS. Also, Phagga, do you have any thoughts about, VE lurker lynching Mocsta+Me 'argument' Short on time. I agree with the lurker lynching early as we cannot differentiate between lurkers and scum later on and we have no mechanic to clear lurkers / confirm them town. Will post more later. | ||
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On February 06 2013 17:13 Mocsta wrote: I hope you do, thats essentially a re-cap of two pages of thread. I just want to add something shorty in terms of lynching lurkers: D1 lynches are often crapshots, Kitaman analysed in anohter thread that town would be better off RNG the D1 lynch generally than trying to analyse and find scum. Combine this with the beformentioned fact that we have mechanics to differentiate lukers from scum or get rid of them, I therefore embrace a lynch on a lurker on who we cannot get an alignement read, should one be available. Regarding you, Mocsta, I don't agree with VE that you tried to establish a good town atmosphere. You are writing calm, but some things you posted like Oats, this game is obviously too much of a step up in difficulty for your current forum-mafia skill level. Just quit and let someone that knows how to play replace you. are not helping creating a good town atmosphere. Did you really think Oats would say "oh well, I guess he's right, can I get a replacement GMarshal?" This subtle stabs have a tendency to poison town atmoshpere much more than the shouting of Oats did, and I did not like this at all. Considering that everything else you posted is barely alignement indicative, I'll be interested to see more from you. | ||
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On February 06 2013 18:26 Mocsta wrote: Fair enough, but are u implying that you thought his attitude was conducive to an open environment. Oats has a (recent) tendency to post one liners asking to expound points already clarified. The outcome. Shit questions get shit answers. Maybe u thought I over stepped the line in dissing him. But he was going out of his way to cherry pick sentences in a paragraph. For day1 i have been trying to promote discussion. I would contest he was actively killing the discussion. When did he promote an alternative? If you want to judge me as null fine. But don't imply he is a saint in this but referencing only me. I never wanted to imply those things. I see Oats behaviour as disruptive, and I see how he misinterpreted your posts. It is also fine that you call him out on this, it's just the way you did it on a few occasions that got my attention. On February 06 2013 18:37 Mocsta wrote: Phagga. Marv in Mafia LIX proved you can scum hunt day. As I keep saying I thought the whole point of this game setup was to mitigate lurking. Why are we talking about lurking again, and there prioritization over scum reads? If u want to counter and gibe the kitamen spiel again. Let's say your RNG plan found traction. Are you suggesting if you were the rolled lynch candidate that you would accept your fate without putting up a fight? First, I never ever wanted to suggest we RNG the votes! That would kill of discussion and is absolutely unnecessary. I just wanted to say that statistically, random lynches on D1 would be more successful than what town normally is doing, hence lynching lurkers (who can be a liability for town later on) D1 is a viable option. Nevertheless, our goal has to be to find scum and lynch them, starting D1. How the D1 lynch should go down IMO: - If we have a clear scum suspect, let's lynch him - If not, but there is a lurker who we can not get any alignement of, lynch him. Finally, only because the setup SHOULD mitigate lurking does not mean there will be no lurkers. | ||
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Also, prplhz not scum, and Palmar better gets some more content in here. | ||
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Sloosh, do you mean me talking about lurkers or about Mocsta/Oats? | ||
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On February 07 2013 01:11 JieXian wrote: + Show Spoiler + Mocsha soooo scummy!!! Clear evidence of lying and trolling up the thread since his first post: On February 05 2013 10:03 Mocsta wrote: Im pretty excited for the even day dynamics. The risk/reward of putting 3 town for nomination, reminds me of the whole bodyguard speculation. It can even go as wild as putting in 3 scum; to bus one and clear the other 2. Either way, wont talk about this anymore till game starts. On February 06 2013 11:02 Mocsta wrote: Hey all the usual stuff Im +8 GMT & nominating myself for mayor o.0 On February 06 2013 11:04 Mocsta wrote: ooo.. nominations referred to Even Days. *sigh* VE: Plan is still in action  Pretends to not know about the game when he already did speculate about the nomination mechanic... wtf is this? That coupled with oats' meta read doesn't make it look too good for you mochsta Oh Hai there. So Mocsta is scum because of a pregame post and some troll post? Have you read the rest of his filter? Have you actually read the thread? What do you think of Yamato and sloosh? What do you say about snarfs sudden dissappearance? What's your stance on lurking? Palmar On February 07 2013 02:19 Palmar wrote: Guys, I got this really good plan for tomorrow so don't lynch me today even though I might be lurking, mkay? <3 But seriously, as I know you don't read the OPs of games, let me tell you something: There are no nightkills. There are only lynches. So how about you stop trolling and start showing us your townie side? Do you think you could do that? On February 07 2013 04:33 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Phagga My notes for Phagga were a bunch of sarcastic comments and "ahmigawd stawp defending urself". He's ultra defensive yo. "OMG, I never wanted to suggest anti-town things! I most certainly am not anti-town!" (the NEVER EVER made me lol) A lot of his posts are just summing up stuff that we should be doing D1 instead of actually doing it. He also calls out Palmar, who seems to be an easy target right now. Kind of like when people want to lynch a town Mr. Z, they're always scum >.> Uh, Mocsta asked me questions under the wrong assumptions, that's why I wanted to make it clear to him that he did assume wrong things? You even posted the relevant quotes from him. Not sure why this is bad. Assuming Palmar is town, he knows nothing about prplhz alignement. Prplhz posts are not scum indicative for me, so he is a null tell. Alas, I don't think he is scum, and if Palmar is serious about his vote on prphlz (which I doubt), then he better explains why. | ||
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On February 07 2013 05:45 yamato77 wrote: The Man of the Hour! How nice of you to appear! What are YOUR thoughts on Yamato/Sloosh? You conveniently forgot to mention us in that post there. I was rereading your dialogue with Sloosh, and the other post was already big enough. I don't like how you accused him of making an association case (which he was clearly not), and how you tried to dodge his questions. you not wanting to give town reads is not really alignment indicative. You're case on Mocsta is rather weak, the tone of his posts vs Oats is completely different than what you posted from his scum game. Your reaction to sloosh's questions feel over the top. You seem to bark at him for no good reason instead of just trying to answer his questions. It feels partially like someone who just got caught in the act and tries to hide it. Specially the following two posts stick out: On February 07 2013 03:42 yamato77 wrote: I said I agree with the general scumminess of phagga, in that he has some of the things I think mafia might do in his play so far. What I didn't tell you is why I doubt those, and I'm not going to. You've got to do better than equate phagga to Mocsta to prove he's scum. You're making an association case here, which is incredibly scummy this early in day 1. and On February 07 2013 03:45 yamato77 wrote: Let's talk about why YOU think Phagga is mafia, Sloosh. You've said you think I should because of similarity to Mocsta, but aside from your first post you've done little to justify the read in the way of meaningful analysis from a personal perspective. Afterwards everything else is just you attacking him until prplhz points out to you that it might be beneficial for you to actually answer slooshs question. The way you explained why you thought I was town actually showed that you have reasons to believe so, and it's not because you'd actually know my alignment, which seems townish. Still, due to your reaction I slightly lean scum on you. Regarding Sloosh: Nothing I have read so far indicates that he would be scum. | ||
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##Vote JieXian Regarding Palmar: he is trolling hard, I dont know if all you got this: On February 07 2013 01:41 phagga wrote: Regarding Palmar, I dont like how he throws a vote without explanation and then in his next post he implies: "Guys, I got this really good plan for tomorrow so don't lynch me today even though I might be lurking, mkay?" Sloosh, do you mean me talking about lurkers or about Mocsta/Oats? On February 07 2013 02:19 Palmar wrote: Guys, I got this really good plan for tomorrow so don't lynch me today even though I might be lurking, mkay? Nevertheless, he is trolling D1 as either town or scum, and I know how good a player he can be, so I hesitate to lynch him for now. prplhz dissappearance is worrying, might be timezone related. His filter is devoid of analysis. I hope to see some more from him in the next few hours. I will read up on Djo and Snarfs at the next possibility and comment on them. | ||
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I agree completely that it makes him look even worse, hence no need to change my vote. | ||
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On February 07 2013 19:06 Mocsta wrote: My gripes with prplhz (Post 1) Here he breaks up the fight which is NOT alignment indicative. The problem is how he does it. He focuses on activity as a reason to stop the fight. Hes not addressing what me and Oats are having issues about (unlike others who also tried to break the fight). In fact, his reasoning is related to image. Your activity (image) is sufficient to not lynch you today. Isn't it scum who are constantly worried about image when it comes to lynches? It is also weird, he says "im sure theres something you missed" as if he thinks we are both town. He hasnt justified we are both town in any way, shape or form; so its as if, he knows we are town (Post 2) He defends oats (by request of Djo) as a town read; by virtue of "fervor and insight". Odd, fervor agreed. insight, I dont think anyone here has said oats has tried to input insight into this game; its as if he got confused between me and oats; which indicates lack of care when reading. The other problem is as already pointed out, he lashes out the town read, but where is the scum read? (Post 3) Banter with palmar after the vote. waste of a post, but could be made from any alignment. (Post 4) So after all the happenings in the thread with me/oats, djo/RNG etc, palmar/vote (prplhz); prplhz last contribution is in line with sl0osh questioning of yamato. I had to read this a few times, because at first, when I was in the heat of the moment I thought it was a fair question to yamato. But the more I read it, the more I dont like it. (a)Why is he jumping in to white knight sl0Osh? prplhz still hasnt given a scum read; and has only given a town read on oats. This is an odd post to choose to contribute with. (b) Why is he trying to threaten/bully Yamato into giving this information out (by saying.. hey you dont want sl0oish on ya case). He could have just said the last line "read is void, unless you can explain it" (c) The most off putting is "which is not something we generally want out of a townie". This is nit picking into English language, but the phrasing is not from a 1st person perspective. Its actually referencing townie as a separate object. In this case, as scum; town is a separate object. I think if town to town were interacting it would read "generally town do not want this to happen day 1".. So yes, based on the above, prplhz has made a conscious effort to not divulge scum reads; has not provided any insight; he reasons for stopping the fight were based on reasonings aligned with image; and has not been present in the thread since. ##Vote: prplhz Regarding Post 1: At that point only few people had posted, and you/Oats were the most active by far. If he felt unsure about you two being scum, I think it is only fair to say that you guys are not good lynch targets for now since you were both so active. This is also confirmed with his Post 2, where he writes that it would be foolish at that point to lynch the two most active players when there is no solid case. I agree it can be interpreted the way you do, but I feel you read a bit too much into that post, or take knowledge into your interpetation that was not available at the time when he made that post. Regarding Post 2: I agree with you on the "insight" thing, that IS rather strange to say at that point. Post 3: Perhaps some sort of light pressure? Prplhz and Palmar know each other for quite some time I think (I played with both in Werewolfes II about a year ago, and they weren't playing in the same game for the first time then.) Post 4: I missed it the first time round, but that sentence IS interesting. The way it is written it either means that he knows that Yamato is town or he reads Yamato as town, for which he has before not given any indication. On the other side, he has not done any analysis up to that point, so it is difficult to see from which side he is coming there. I know prphlz sometimes needs some time to gear up. He is not the trolly kind of player (unlike palmar) as town, but I have seen town games from him where he was very quite D1. Therefore I still hope to see some more content from him. I think JX is a much better option currently. The only town point I can think for prplhz is that I havent seen someone roll scum two games in a row. I think prplhz once rolled scum 4 games in a row, somewhen last summer IIRC. | ||
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On February 08 2013 01:02 JieXian wrote: if you're going to lynch me because I wasn't around then you're bloody stupid. Somebody tell me how Djo's RNG nonsense isn't scummy? It's your fault if you are not active, don't try to shift the blame on town. Who is your top scum read and why? | ||
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On February 08 2013 01:08 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: @VE Please hurry with your "to-do" list on me. This game has been incredibly odd for me, because I'm used to people being like "omg ur scum" and slap me with a case. Being pressured helps me get reads on my accuser, so please do point out anything you find troubling with my play. I'll say to you what I said to Yamato in British: c'mon bro, tunnel me. I see Phagga just randomly wants to lynch JX now for the same restated reasons, seems legit. Interesting stance on prphlz, however, seems like you put a lot more into that read than JX's (or did you simply just want to see more from prphlz?) Why the hell is nobody lynching snarfs right now? Get off of Palmar at least if anyone still wants to lynch him D1. Yes, I put more into the read on prplhz than on JX, which has also to do with the amount of posts existing at that point (there were like 2 from JX?). I wanted to see more from both, but chose to pressure JX via vote. I had some confidence that prphlz would show up in the thread again anyway. Since he has posted more meanwhile, I can say now that I don't see him as scum currently. He has laid out his thoughts clearly so far and is now pushing to get more people talk about jaybrundage, who he is worried about. | ||
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Also, you think it's good town play to wait for the very last second to show you are town? | ||
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On February 08 2013 01:25 Snarfs wrote: Okay, I'm caught up give me another little bit to get to my computer and I'll do up that case on VE. I don't think prplhz is a good lynch. Normally when prplhz is town I feel like he's scummy and right now I feel like he's scummy so he's probably town. Last time we played together we were both scum and he was a lot more tunnely. Last time I was town I tried to lynch him because he gives off this just blending in vibe that I picked up this game from his first couple of posts - my immediate reaction was to agree with Palmar that he's scum, but I double checked these last two games I'm talking about and this seems much more in line with town prplhz. tl;dr you think this is his town meta, right? What do you think is scummy about prplhz? Can you reference the two games you are talking about? | ||
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Sl00sh, where are you, who do you want to lynch today and why? i see you have not voted anyone currently. Off to the train, I will check from mobile and be on a comp in about 3 to 4 hours again. | ||
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On February 08 2013 02:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Seems like a shiton of meta reads going down this game, myself included in this one. I think we should start leaning towards analyzing in-game behavior more. Phagga, you still irk me as being paranoid as all hell and now you're lurking like a boss. Since you decided to pop in here to defend Palmar, what say you to a Snarfs lynch? Set on JX? Dude I wrote i am on the train, how about you read my posts? Yes, set on jx. My point was more about scum abusing palmars meta, his behaviour so far is just not alignement-indicative, and he is probably the only one that I would let get away with it. Snarf I feel unsure about, have to read up fully on his case on VE. I currently think he might be right about VE, so I do not want to lynch him | ||
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On February 08 2013 05:36 VisceraEyes wrote: The JX wagon popped up quick. FAST quick. I mean, this is like the end of the phase really with people going to bed. Uh what? not even 4 hours ago the votecount looked like this: On February 08 2013 02:12 Mocsta wrote: UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT Palmar (3) - Djo, Mocsta, JX JX (2) - phagga, Yamato77 Snarfs (2) - Mr.CC, Oatsmaster prplhz (2) - Palmar, VE Djodref (1) - JayBrundage VE (1) - Snarfs No Vote (2) -sl0osh, prplhz And that was AFTER some folks jumped away from JX again. Since then Mocsta, Oatsmaster, Cheesecake and Jaybrundage voted JX, which makes 6 votes out of 13 (or 12, if we take JX' vote away). How is that a fast quick wagon on JX? He has been discussed all day. Also: On February 08 2013 03:33 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm willing to consolidate onto JX. Is this still true? If not, what changed for you? And: On February 08 2013 05:12 VisceraEyes wrote: I AM WILLING TO BET MY LIFE THAT PALMAR IS MAFIA. Why? What differentiates his play this game from, say Death Note Mafia where he was town? | ||
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Also, where the hell is sloosh? | ||
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hmm. Yeah right, I did not really take his last post into account, you got a point there. Do I understand you right that you assume JX and Palmar are both scum then? What do you make of JX's vote on palmar then? I mean, from the point of the scum team it's a lose/lose situation if either of them gets lynched, why would he not try to get on prplhz or snarf (assuming at least one of them is town). Also, if what you say is true, palmars last post was tremendously stupid, as a red flip of JX will automatically shift towns attention on him. | ||
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On February 08 2013 07:26 VisceraEyes wrote: Palmar is already going to have attention on him because he's promised some kind of "plan" to take advantage of scum nominations or something...he's lurked unrepentantly all of D1. Do you mean to tell me that you were going to let him do the same D2? What about D3 phagga? When does it end? If he's town, his play is lynchworthy anyway - but he's not. I would think (or at least hope) that he wouldn't play a game like this as town. It ends D2 (if he gets nominated), else D3. | ||
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On February 07 2013 03:28 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh neat, Palmar didn't even comment on random lynching. Another infallible scum tell for our icelandic friend. ##Vote: Palmar Later on you said palmar does not care, and that is a sign that he is scum. Both this points have been refuted by oats (with the Marv vote) and me (Death note). What's baffling me is that I feel you should have known better than that. You were in LVIII with Marv and Palmar and even answered to the very quote of Marv that oats posted. And even without this, you are long enough active here that i would expect you to know that palmar does these stunts as town sometimes. Therefor I really feel you tried to pull a Risen here and lynch palmar for his inactivity although you should know that he could be town, and could be a an important asset to town later on. On February 07 2013 17:58 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay, I've read the whole thread again. First of all, where the fuck is prplhz and why isn't anyone else curious? He has literally 4 in game posts and while he appears to be interested in "thread atmosphere", I just have no idea who he thinks is scum. Djo bringing back up the whole Oats/Mocsta thing is just...confusing. What's the point? I'm not even sure what he's accusing Mocsta of in the first place. @Djo What exactly is your problem with Mocsta? It's like you're suspicious of him because he didn't join your random lynch (which you say that you didn't even really like). As I said earlier, I'm very very interested in clearing out the trash, being players who signed up and aren't playing. Right now that list is: Palmar prplhz Snarfs JX There's no way in hell they're all scum. Here's what I want to do. I think everyone should choose one name off that list that they believe is the most realistic lynch candidate based on what they perceive to be town sentiment. Then I want them to explain why they aren't voting for that person, and explain in detail why their lynch candidate is better. Know this. GM made it clear in the OP that lurkers will ruin this game. You don't even have to take my word for it, it's right in the OP. The worst thing townies can do in this setup is lurk. Therefor, I don't want to lynch someone active today. We can start lynching into active posters with more flip information. I think prplhz is the most realistic lynch candidate, and I'll tell you why (though you probably won't like it.) Palmar apparently wants to lynch prplhz. Is that fucked up or what? But it's true. If Palmar comes back in here and says "Yeah I still want to lynch prplhz" then I believe that prplhz will get lynched. In spite of fucking off for the entire game, Palmar has more say over who gets lynched than I do. But I'm not bitter - all is not lost you see. For I can also get down on a prplhz lynch. I'd still do somersaults over a Palmar lynch or Snarfs lynch, but honestly I just don't think I can make it happen today. ____________________________________________________________________ On the active posters: I'd like to see more from slOosh. Him backing out of his yamato read, while admirable I guess, leaves me wondering just who he thinks is scum. He mentioned phagga as a means of determining prplhz' alignment...somehow? But made it clear that he wasn't really a scumread. Ultimately he wants it to be clear that he's not doing nothing, which generally sets off red flags for me. He started out as a super townread too, which is why this is concerning for me. @slOosh You say "let's work with what we've got". I've got a case on Snarfs that you haven't commented on. I've got a lurker policy that I'd like you to consider. I'd really like to hear who you think is scum. yamato is on my to-do list tomorrow morning. So is Cheesecake. I'm going to bed now. ##Unvote: Palmar ##Vote: prplhz So, you vote Palmar because he is scum according to you, and then you switch to Palmars target (prplhz) saying if Palmar (who you think is scum) is going to push prplhz, he will get his will anyway. So you freely succumb to scum? What is this? Oh, I forgot, you will of course still be happy to lynch palmar if someone else wants to, but now you no longer want to push him, and instead push the target of your scumread! How is that a town motivated move? | ||
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On February 08 2013 08:18 VisceraEyes wrote: It's town motivated because I want to lynch Palmar and prplhz. If Palmar wants to help me do so, that's his thing. Like, do you think Palmar is incapable of bussing his teammates? Riddle me this phagga: how do you think scumPalmar would say he wants to lynch prplhz, regardless of prplhz alignment KNOWING that he's going to disappear for however long and not participate in the game? I wouldn't expect a townPalmar to even say he wants to lynch anyone in that manner knowing he hasn't read the thread and isn't going to read the thread long enough to warn us about it. Of course Palmar is capable of bussing his teammates, but you MUST have been aware at this point that Palmar could have voted a townie. And let's just be clear: this post On February 07 2013 23:05 Palmar wrote: I can't be much around today. Very quick reading makes me want to lynch cheescake, snarfs, prplhz maybe phagga or yamato So I'll leave my vote on prplhz came after the post I quoted before. So what you are saying is that a) Palmar has a lot of influence, b) Palmar is scum and c) Palmar comes into the thread and busses his teammate immediatly, hence you vote his teammate. That just does not make any sense to me. And I'm not talking about Palmars alignment here (which is a different discussion), I'm solely talking about how you chose to abandon your scum read and instead voted for your scumread's target, and that I don't understand that move. | ||
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If Palmar comes back in here and says "Yeah I still want to lynch prplhz" then I believe that prplhz will get lynched. So while it is true that Palmar has not pushed him, you did not have this kind of knowledge when you wrote your post yesterday, and instead claimed that prplhz was a good target because of the very fact that if Palmar pushes him, he will get prplhz lynched. That contradicts your "Palmar is bussing prplhz" theory, since a scum palmar would probably not actively push a lynch on his team mate. | ||
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- VE is not a good lynch today, i do not agree with prplhz there. - I am warming up to a Palmar lynch, because VE's point about his behaviour (voting prplhz, trying to shift votes away from JX) are pretty solid. Nevertheless, it's JX today, let's see him flip red. | ||
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 that sucks. Guess I'm gonna take sloosh's advice and reread the thread. | ||
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##Vote Palmar I will gladly change my vote if I see a reason to, currently there is none. Sloosh had a decent start yesterday. He then dropped of to the point where i was warned because he failed to vote, which seems more of a personal life issue than anything else. He promised to show us more today, I'm waiting for that. While I was not 100% sold on Mocstas townieness yesterday, he is for sure the guy I would lynch last currently. @ Palmar: You mentioned a good plan for D2 yesterday, would you now share it? Also I would like to hear your opinions on who is scum and why (I don't need full blown cases, but a few pointers on why e.g. prplhz is scum would be nice) @Oatsmaster Scum Palmar does not lurk? Where did you get that? This is just nonsense, Aperture mafia is the first that comes to mind (he smurfed as Dirk Hardpec there). Palmar has broad style of Metas as town and scum, you cannont classify him that easily. I have a small post put together with thoughts/questions on some other players before yesterday but did not post it because I did not want to influence nominations. I will not post it right now, as D2 is fresh and the current vote discussion is more important, but I will put it up later (latest beginning of D3). Finally, it's weekend, which is always family time for me, so less activity for the next 48 hours. I should be around again in roughly 13-14 hours. I MIGHT be reading/posting inbetween from phone. | ||
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VE: You realize that when you unvoted Palmar here, Palmar had 3 votes? And that in the post above the linked post Mocsta considered switching his vote to Palmar? The only person having a considerable amount of posts at that point was Mocsta (also 3 I think), and people were moving away from him as lynch target at that point. So why did you think it was not possible to lynch Palmar when he was already almost the vote leader? Why did you no longer push him? Also, I posted this yesterday and never got any reaction from you. What's up with that? Djo: I don't like the whole RNG stuff too much. It was VERY obvious from the start that he was not serious about it, and the way he did it, it just did not feel convincing. It felt more like a rushed, badly executed plan, either because it WAS rushed (rather townie) or the actual discussion did not really interest him (scum). Afterwards he pressured Mocsta for quite a while, claiming that town does not tell scum players that they are matching their scum meta, unless they nailed the scum player. He banters back and forth with Mocsta over a few posts, reciting his arguments one last time here only to suddenly ask him if the want to lynch Palmar together. Djo, what happened in between there? Mocsta still gave you no answer, why the sudden change of heart? prplhz: I did not like his vote on VE at all. He talked about jaybrundage several times, but never actually voted him, although he clearly stated several times that he wants to lynch him. Then he said he liked Snarfs case, and didn't like the looks of VE (whatever that meant), and suddenly there's a vote on VE. That just felt wrong, his justification for the vote of VE is much weaker than his reasons for wanting to lynch jay. Snarf: The problem with his case on VE is that he built it on a single town/scum meta, when VE has shown different metas at least as town and cannot be broken down to a single behaviour that easy. I therefore don't think the case as a whole is viable. He is null to me. I feel very sure that at least one scum is in the group of VE, Palmar and prplhz following their interactions on D1. Right now I'd lynch palmar. Should he however start to play properly and show that he is town, then I would probably shift to prplhz. While I feel that VE behaved strangely around the Palmar/prplhz vote, his behaviour towards prplhz and me felt ok, so I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. that's that post. Additional scum reads are Djo and Jaybrundage, although the latter is more of a gut read currently. I will have to read through his filter to get to a conclusion, but as written before that won't happen before tonight. @Mocsta, it's not questions, more observations. What I was saying was I'm leaning town on you, but not yet 100% sure. I'm off now, kids are waiting for me. | ||
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On February 10 2013 05:32 yamato77 wrote: That post from Palmar... Ugh. Just kill him. Put him out of his misery. What's wrong with that post, can you explain please? | ||
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On February 09 2013 17:39 slOosh wrote: Missed his last post, but don't think it's worth addressing. Just note that he didn't bother bring up most of those things during the actual day, and his final conclusion is "there is probably 1 scum in this group of three". Lots of questions but no real conclusions. Going to sleep because it's 2:38am and I have to be up at 8am and seriously why am I doing this to myself .... Next post will be around ... 1 or 2pm since that is when I'm free. If you have questions for me, consolidate them in a nice post so I can address each one clearly when I get back. I did not bring those things up because they only occured to me after I reread the thread/Filters in the 24 hour dawn phase. And my scum reads are djo, jay, yamato (which I actually forgot in this post after the line because I was in a hurry and didn't check my notes) and one of prplhz / Ve. My read on yamato is older and I will go through his filter now, also I will got through jays filter as he is currently more of a gut read (as written this morning). | ||
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Also, what are your reasons that you read me as scum? I have posted an early analysis of Yamatos play here which resulted in me leaning scum on him. Here are a few more things I noticed when going through his filter. Some of these are minor compared to the points I brought up in the other post, but they reinforce my read on Yamato. On February 07 2013 13:04 yamato77 wrote: Why do you think that? Perhaps some of what I've done this game hasn't gone the way I intended it to, but hey, shit happens. What about the things I am doing make you think I'm bad? I think I have a good chunk of the game figured out already. This is 26 hours into the game, and Yamato has the game figured out, or at least a good chunk of it already. That's pretty bold, considering that some players had been barely active up to that and several had not made any hard stances whatsoever.Unless, of course, he already knows the alignement of every player, which would make him scum. Now, let's have a look at this list: On February 07 2013 13:08 yamato77 wrote: In fact, let me go down my list and tell you guys exactly what I think of the game so far. I know you all hate list posts but whatever, deal with it. TOWN Oats Sloosh VE Mocsta Jay Prplhz CC NULL Djo Phagga MAFIA Palmar JX Snarfs The only thing left to do in this game is lynch into/see more of the bottom five and figure out which one is the town player. Right now I'd pick Djo. I didn't list these in any particular order, but my town reads are all fairly decent at the moment. It would take a lot for me to change them. Two of his 3 scum reads have already turned out to be town, that's how much he figured out the game. The really interesting part however is that the 3 people he lists as mafia are all lurkers who had all been called out by someone else already. THIS LIST IS EXTREMELY SAFE FOR A SCUM PLAYER. He does not list any scum behaviour for any of those people except for "they lurk" or in snarfs case: Yamato77 wrote like 10 minutes earlier: don't know what's going on between VE/Snarfs, but I don't think people are cool with lynching VE so Snarfs needs some better contributions than a "case" on VE that I don't find to be good. That's the only reasoning why snarfs is in that list. Where is the alignement indication in this sentence? What makes snarfs scum? We don't know. Now I know it is not unheard of that 3/4th of a scum team lurks. But keep in mind that this game was designed specifically to force the scum team to be active. Of course there can still be a lurker (which is why for example VE or me advocated a Lynch all Lurker policy, or a variant thereof), but chances are that in this very game the majority of the scum team will be active. I say Yamato posted that list to present reads, and therefor make the impression that he is contributing. However, he knew that with this list he would barely be attacked/questioned for his reads. There were several other players for each of his scum reads who shared the sentiment at that point, and it would be easy for him to look contributing and hide in the masses at the same time. About his Mocsta case: Yamato was the third player to vote Mocsta after Oats and JX, and he first refused to make a case. On February 07 2013 02:07 yamato77 wrote: Anyone not willing to lynch Mocsta after reading his filter in those two games needs to provide a better reason than his "activity", please. It's quite clear to me that he's mafia. After being called out by sloosh he made a case, which was deemed weak by many (including me). Now, a weak case is not necessarily a scum trait, as town is able to produce them as well. So, let's just go forward and look at how Yamato later backs down from his case: On February 07 2013 13:14 yamato77 wrote: I think Mocsta might be town because I don't think a mafia player went through the effort to make that huge response. Also, in my experience, people that are this wrong about me are often town, a la Vivax in LIX. I'm content with the idea that he actually has a scumread on me, instead of it being an outright lie. Obviously some of you think he's mafia, such as jay and Oats, so why don't you guys make your own case? I think Djo made a decent point, yes, but I still think he might be town despite it. I thought my case was good, too, but he still might be town despite that. Yes, this is wishy-washy, as I've been accused of, but in all honesty D1 reads change very quickly. If you think I'm bad/scum for thinking he might be town after all this, you need to justify your read better. Mocsta is town because he defended himself, and because he is reading Yamato in the wrong alignment. How are this reasons in any way alignement indicative? I don't see how a townie backs down from a case for this. And then he lists several points that (in his opinion) speak against Mocsta, but Mocsta is town despite that. And, of course, all this wishy-washy-behaviour from yamato is no scum trait of him, oh no, you need to get better reasons. So he even knows he behaves like scum, but does nothing to avoid it, and instead puts the burden on all the others to find more reasons to prove he is scum. However, when you are town, would you not try to avoid this in the first place? Because first of all, it saves you a lot of trouble to prove that you are not scum, and second, it saves your town teammates the trouble of going through your filter to find out if you are indeed scum or not. Since his list post Yamatos reads have barely changed. He made Djo town and me scum at some point, that's about it. So now that two of his 4 scum reads have flipped town, I'm eager to know who else is mafia for him. Nevertheless, Yamato is scum. | ||
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On February 09 2013 17:19 slOosh wrote: + Show Spoiler + The low hanging fruit in this game is phagga. If you familiarize yourself with his meta (nicely displayed in his profile and devoid of any scum games), it becomes clearer that he is new scum whose play pales to his town play. I've pointed out in my earliest post what I found about phagga to be interesting. On February 07 2013 01:21 slOosh wrote: I found phagga's entry into the game pretty weak (of all the things to talk about he picked out something pretty minor) and his "coaching" of Mocsta very unnatural. What are your thoughts on him? I pointed it out when I distracted myself by latching onto the yamato thing here, but the tells are pretty valid. He has a focus on lurkers, "contributing" statistics and reasoning. His "coaching" is very awkward, as seen: On February 06 2013 18:09 phagga wrote: Regarding you, Mocsta, I don't agree with VE that you tried to establish a good town atmosphere. You are writing calm, but some things you posted like are not helping creating a good town atmosphere. Did you really think Oats would say "oh well, I guess he's right, can I get a replacement GMarshal?" This subtle stabs have a tendency to poison town atmoshpere much more than the shouting of Oats did, and I did not like this at all. Considering that everything else you posted is barely alignement indicative, I'll be interested to see more from you. Awkward checklist: - Talking to Mocsta rather than VE concerning Mocsta's play, over something he disagrees with VE about. - Stating that Mocsta is writing calmly, but then dismissing everything else by saying it is alignment null, i.e. devoid of content - Pointing out to the subject himself the problems with his play rather than convincing / discussing with other people. Compare this to a D1 post (about three quarters into cycle) from Wheel of Fortune Mafia: On April 23 2012 16:22 phagga wrote: Mr. Zentor: I don't like how his "really long post" was actually not long at all, but only full of quotes. If we ignore the quotes, the post was quite short. So why announce it as long? His case on prplhz was weak, and when asked a second time why he thought that prplhz was still scummy, he never answered. His style is unnecessarily aggresive. VisceraEyes: His Filter shows 5 ingame posts, which is more than I have, but unlike me he is notorious for being very active borderline on spamming, trying to direct people and generally being helpful to town. He is completely lacking these features this game. His townread post is suspicious, I can't remember him making townlists like this in the last games? His behaviour currently reminds of the Bastard game we just were in, where he was SK. Ace: I don't like how he has basically been talking about game mechanics and shown no interest in hunting scum. However, I've read some games where he was in (last was space station) and I think this is part of his D1 play? Not entirely sure. Radfield: He would not have shown up in this list was it not for sbrubbles points. I think they are very legit, and I look forward to Radfields reaction. Very straightforward, gives clear thoughts and explanations, talks to town in general rather than the subjects. Why don't you compare it to GLS open mini Mafia which is newer and show that I can have weak entrances as town as well? + Show Spoiler + Another contrast is his fear of taking a hard stance, a common tell among newer scum players. Notice how many scum tells phagga is able to point out, and compare that with his final conclusion: The counterbalance to five points is yamato's town read explanation "which seems townish". There's a clear disconnect here people. phagga's newb scum play is showing: he is afraid of committing to a stance despite being able to list much evidence. That's just my usual insecurities that you can find in any game of me. The conclusion was how I felt about him, not how I should have interpreted the facts that I just listed. It was an error, you are right, my stance should have been stronger than it was. + Show Spoiler + And there are the empty promises he often makes, because he can't make actual reads: Doesn't do so. Doesn't comment on the case at all, and his "grilling of VE" concludes somehow, with this: More excuses not to post reads, because he doesn't have any. For someone who "took my advice" on rereading the thread (seriously why credit me with that), he clearly didn't read anything else I had to say since he is doing the exact opposite. I'd say that one is at least partially refuted by the post you missed. And sometimes you lack the time/forget that you wanted to follow up on someone (which kinda happened with djo). Example, VE also wanted to follow up on me very early in the game, and never did. | ||
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On February 10 2013 08:19 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: who's the second guy to have flipped town? There was a sentence lost somewhere. It should say: Two of his 3 scum reads have already turned out to be town (If we assume Palmar is town, which most people seem to do by now), .... that case was so bad. Because someone is wrong doesnt make them scum. Phagga, lol. It's the fact that he chose easy targets, which he would barely have to justify, and which seem now to turn out to be town. Also his choice of snarfs was not explained at all. it's the combination of these things that bother me. My son keeps crying in the middle of the night and my wife and I don't know why. Jays filter has to wait till tomorrow. Should be online again in about 20 hours. | ||
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On February 10 2013 15:46 yamato77 wrote: And to think I softdefended this guy day 1. Jesus. What is the purpose of this post, Yamato? Let me answer that for you: You want to distance yourself from the guy that is being perceived as scum by several townie players. But why do you have to do that? Because you're scum. If you were town, you wouldn't care enough about the fact that you softdefended me D1 to post about it. On February 10 2013 17:04 yamato77 wrote: I will say this, I am sitting on my reads today on purpose. You guys know what I think about who dies today, and that's enough for the time being. Tomorrow I'll update all of you on my reads, which have changed some since yesterday, but not significantly. More importantly, I've become more confident in them, and have some more evidence, which I will share at a later date if it hasn't already been covered. I don't think it's any stretch to say everyone should be on board with killing Palmar today. Sloosh is townier by a mile and Palmar is obviously not even playing the game, so he should just die. If he's town, oh well, someone has to die, and he's admitted to us that he's going to do nothing. If he's mafia then his team is retarded, or he's too cocky for his own good. One thing I will say today is that I don't think VE is mafia at the moment. Drunk VE was very town last night. <3 drunk VE. I asked you for your reads, and this is your response? I can see no reason why you should not give your reads out now, since you are allegedly finished analysing them and have "become more confident in them". That is unless you are scum. Also, I asked you why you think I'm scum, would you please answer that? Who are your scum reads and why? | ||
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On February 10 2013 14:58 Mocsta wrote: (1) phagga, the overall tone of this defense is: meek, and generally reads as "hey, you got me; im saying something cos I have to say something" (2) phagga, maybe you did leave the sentence out, but (IMHO) the original phrase reads pretty complete. [You were having a dig at him hence the "that's how much he figured out the game"] In fact, it read so smoothly I have no reason to think you would have considered your addendum (i.e. assume Palmar is town) when writing the comment. Also, at this stage it seems Palmar is leading the nomination votes; so odd you auto-assume he is town. Your addendum phrasing reads as if you knew Palmar was town, and happy everyone caught up to your knowledge "by now" Also, odd that you base your town read on Palmar, because "most people seem to do". This is the Fallacy: Bandwagon In short, I only have a limited time playing this game, normally about 2 hours a day, today even less. I'm not gonna waste a lot of time defending myself, and instead try to find scum. Should I get misslynched D3 that would suck, but it's not the end of the world for town, since they can still start lynching scum D5 and win the game (assuming nominations end up all townie). Regarding my "scum-slip", believe what you want, I'll say this final thing on the matter: Scum slips normally happen when players post something rushed, a few lines to comment immediatly. I have never played scum, but I doubt I'd scumslip like this in a post I prepared for almost 2 hours. You insult my intelligence. | ||
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On February 10 2013 14:08 jaybrundage wrote: I have a pool of players that I would be interested in lynching that are on mah list. Currently both are completely lynchable for me. (Its like lunchables but more bloody and delicious!) I usually have decent scum reads but getting the town to follow me can be hard. So I occasionally just sheep on a town read I have and try to follow thru with a lynch that I agree with. I used to do this alot with Palmar but he hasn't been very active this game : ( But Mocsta you didn't really give your opinions on the VE lynch are you just going after phagga or does VE appeal to you as well? Can you please specifiy who is in the pool that you would like to lynch into? | ||
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On February 08 2013 09:48 jaybrundage wrote: prplhz is getting pretty scummy. He keeps posting that im scummy and will flip red. But he never follows up. He just summarizes my actions. And says im scum. I would be find changing the lynch to him today. My only doubt in the JX lynch is Palmar think's he will flip town. Thoughts? You say that prplhz is scummy, and later on imply that you would have lynched prplhz if he would have been an alternative to JX. However, here you write: On February 08 2013 15:39 jaybrundage wrote: This is a terrible idea. You should never do this town your only cutting off discussion. Keep pressuring your scum reads. Keep pushing for lynch who you think will flip and hopefully obtain better reads from there content. @Mocsta For my top scum read I don't have one atm. I think Djo hasn't dont much still. But not sure on his alignment. For my top town meh its mostly nulls. I realize these are pretty shitty answers. But i wont pull answers out my ass either. When I have a read on someone I'll come out and present a case/pressure them. What happened to your read on prplhz? What do you think of him now? | ||
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On February 11 2013 07:50 Mocsta wrote: phagga, With the current situation and your perceived town cred; I think it is best if you stop trying to fling shit where ever it will stick. I know you only have two hours set aside each thus; thus, I recommend you use that time to respond to the accusations from sl0osh and Mr. CC. I am sure you are more than aware of these - I mean, I don't want to insult your intelligence et. al - so I am just letting you know a response has been outstanding on these items for over 48 hours. I said I read Yamato is scum and I try to point out stuff that I see as proof for that. And I was asking Jay questions to get a better read on him, questions, that, as far as I see, noone else has asked. Perhaps I was overly aggressive in my posts towards Yamato, but the questions about his reads are more than justified. And I hope you don't consider my post towards Jay as "flinging around shit". Since you so much desire an answer, here my answer to Cheesecakes post: On February 10 2013 00:03 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Phagga He's really friggen paranoid. Take a look-see I mentioned this earlier and it still bugs me. "Holy crap I didn't mean to come off scummy I never ever meant to suggest we RNG votes thats so anti-town I'm not anti-town guys seriously". Phagga comes off as suuuuuper paranoid, like he's got something to cover up. I wanted to make sure I would not get misinterpreted. It was early in the game, and people don't have much to go with. I did not want to be the guy who "suggested the RNG vote". Hence my reaction. In addition, the bottom bolded part is more obvious than Mr. Obvious McObvious. Nice contribution to the thread! That was a summarization what I wrote above. I just wanted to communicate clearly what I meant, to avoid confusion. We were talking about lynching lurkers there, and I wanted to make my point of view clear.He also comes off as paranoid here: I ask him if he'd like to lynch Snarfs with me, and completely is like "No wtf I said I'm lynching JX what are you even talking about" This is a complete misunderstanding. Cheese writes: "you're lurking like a boss", which pissed me off since I had just posted a bit earlier. I thought he meant that I should be active in the thread now and had missed my post regarding me being on the train, so I wrote "Dude I wrote I'm on the train, how about you read my posts?". Everything after is disconnected from this sentence, which Cheese seemed to understand differently. So My answer to his question "What you say to a Snarfs lynch? Set on JX?" was "Yes, set on jx". How he can interpret this as "No wtf I said I'm lynching JX what are you even talking about" is beyond my understanding. Next is his sheepy reasons for voting JX He literally gives a sentence to support it, and it's been said before. By myself and by some others. The rest of the thread he doesn't even question JX much, just keeps his vote content there while he talks about prphlz and pressures VE. He has this huge post about VE and his voting with red text and all, but never votes him... he's confident in the JX lynch somehow. It's confusing: is he avoiding talking of JX in order to distance himself from a green flip? I see no scumhunting from him in regards to JX the entirety of day. Such little interaction with him. It's like he was more concerned about a next lynch so he can set up his scumread on VE after JX dies. About JX's first two posts: There was not really much more to be said before that. About everything after: Most people where faster with questioning his stuff than I was. Would you have liked me to fill up the thread with the same questions / remarks other asked? I saw what was presented to me in the thread and it made me content that he was scum. Also wtf is all this crap: Keeps 'getting sniped' lol. Not alignment indicative but it made me laugh. That's me keeping to forget refreshing the page before posting. Regarding sloosh's case, I really don't have much more to add, just this: His Meta case on me is terrible. He picked one post from one game from me. If any of you would actually go back and read more of my game openings, you would see that the paranoia cheese writes about and the weak entrances into the game can be found in other town games from me, some of it even in the very game that sloosh quoted. BTW, read that game to the end (Wheel of Fortune), it's probably my worst game I've played so far on TL. Preedit: I see VE just wrote something similar about sloos meta case. | ||
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Sloosh, Mocsta: Don't you guys find it strange that Yamato does not want to share his reads today? What do you think about that? And with this, I'm off to bed. | ||
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On February 11 2013 11:52 Mocsta wrote: im still keen to vote phagga; and I still dont like his response(s) to the scum slip catch. I still think it was genuine as per (scum slip written on phone) However, there is so much doubt in the thread with yamato currently, which is the main reason I am holding back voting phagga. I am waiting for his response to what has been highlighted as issues. Mocsta, which points are you referring to? I'm kinda confused on what you mean. | ||
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##Vote Yamato I read up on Jay. The impression I have is that he has not done anything really in this game, and has no reads. I will be interested to see what scum reads he has. He also failed to answer why his read on prplhz changed, and as others pointed out his actions around the palmar lynch are very odd. I'm leaning scum on him, but feel unsure. I'm currently writing up a post on VE, but have to catch a train. It should be online in a few hours. | ||
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Or let me ask like this. What did VE do that he got a whole lot scummier? | ||
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I haven't looked at Oats or Cheese in ages, as I was not suspicious of them, so I can't really say much about them right now. I think we have bigger targets right now, and I would like to concentrate on a few players. | ||
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As some of you might remember I was pressuring VE a bit about his behavior around the palmar vote. I think there is a breakdown in his logic. I originally wrote a post to him asking why he voted the target of his scum read: + Show Spoiler + On February 08 2013 08:08 phagga wrote: VE: regarding your Palmar vote: You voted Palmar saying that it is a scum tell that he does not comment on random lynching. Later on you said palmar does not care, and that is a sign that he is scum. Both this points have been refuted by oats (with the Marv vote) and me (Death note). What's baffling me is that I feel you should have known better than that. You were in LVIII with Marv and Palmar and even answered to the very quote of Marv that oats posted. And even without this, you are long enough active here that i would expect you to know that palmar does these stunts as town sometimes. Therefor I really feel you tried to pull a Risen here and lynch palmar for his inactivity although you should know that he could be town, and could be a an important asset to town later on. So, you vote Palmar because he is scum according to you, and then you switch to Palmars target (prplhz) saying if Palmar (who you think is scum) is going to push prplhz, he will get his will anyway. So you freely succumb to scum? What is this? Oh, I forgot, you will of course still be happy to lynch palmar if someone else wants to, but now you no longer want to push him, and instead push the target of your scumread! How is that a town motivated move? He answered and I followed up: + Show Spoiler + On February 08 2013 08:43 phagga wrote: Of course Palmar is capable of bussing his teammates, but you MUST have been aware at this point that Palmar could have voted a townie. And let's just be clear: this post came after the post I quoted before. So what you are saying is that a) Palmar has a lot of influence, b) Palmar is scum and c) Palmar comes into the thread and busses his teammate immediatly, hence you vote his teammate. That just does not make any sense to me. And I'm not talking about Palmars alignment here (which is a different discussion), I'm solely talking about how you chose to abandon your scum read and instead voted for your scumread's target, and that I don't understand that move. + Show Spoiler + On February 08 2013 08:54 VisceraEyes wrote: He didn't explain anything in that post phagga. He didn't say why he wanted to lynch any of those targets. It barely even qualifies as a bus in that instance because he's not pushing his read and he's barely interested in where his vote goes. And regardless of the second post you quoted, the fact remains that he didn't do shit to actually get prplhz lynched. This is a fact. So you can bitch at me all you want about "voting for my scumread's target", because I know that prplhz was never really a target for Palmar because he's come back since then and hasn't mentioned him again. Not even a "Guys lynch prplhz" like he's wont to do. Nothing. + Show Spoiler + On February 08 2013 09:10 phagga wrote: VE: but the point was that you explicitly wrote that if Palmar would push prplhz, he would get him lynched, and this was part of your reasoning why you voted prplhz. So while it is true that Palmar has not pushed him, you did not have this kind of knowledge when you wrote your post yesterday, and instead claimed that prplhz was a good target because of the very fact that if Palmar pushes him, he will get prplhz lynched. That contradicts your "Palmar is bussing prplhz" theory, since a scum palmar would probably not actively push a lynch on his team mate. Now comes the fun part. His response to my last post was that Palmar "didn't do shit to actually get prplhz lynched." and that he knows "that prplhz was never really a target for Palmar because he's come back since then and hasn't mentioned him again." This is his justification for his vote for prplhz. However, when he actually voted prplhz he wrote that if Palmar pushes his target, he will get him lynched. Also, at that time there was no way for him to know if Palmar would push prplhz or not. And finally, if Palmar was scum (as VE read him), and Palmar would actively push prplhz to get lynched, then prplhz would with a high probability be town. (Scum actively pushing a lynch on his own teammate on D1? Not impossible, but very unlikely). So, to break it down into few simple phrases: VE votes prplhz with the premise that if palmar, who is his scumread, pushes a lynch on prplhz, he will get it through. VE then later says that palmar might be bussing his teammate. That leaves two conclusions for VE's intentions when he voted prp in this post. 1.) VE thought that Palmar is scum and is actively pushing a lynch on his own teammate D1, hence VE votes prplhz. 2.) VE thought that Palmar is scum and has the ability to lynch a town prplhz, and VE is perfectly happy with that. The first one is very unlikely, the second one very scummy. Also note how VE actually writes that Palmars vote on prplhz makes the latter the best lynch candidate. The fact that VE never came up with a more satisfying explanation despite me asking him several times makes it pretty clear to me that his intentions were to hurt town. Riddle me this: If sloosh comes up to any of you townies, and asks if you could talk with him about it, and you have the next 30 minutes freely available. What do you do? I guess you would go read sloosh's case and comment on it. But what does VE do? On February 10 2013 06:47 VisceraEyes wrote: I wanted to discuss it with CHEESE tomorrow slOosh. I'm perfectly willing to discuss him [phagga] with you today. -.- On February 10 2013 07:14 VisceraEyes wrote: Hello? slOosh? Did you want me to chiggity chat with you about your case? I thought you were calling the shots here bro, you just called me out. Let me put you mind at ease. In a non-sexual kind of way. Notice the time stamps. It would have been easy to shortly look into Sloosh's 2-page filter to find his case and comment on it. Or he could have gone and read my filter and make his own read on me. But VE was doing nothing. How did he even want to discuss anything on me when he did not even know about the facts? This are my 2 points that made me think VE could be scum. Sloosh adds a couple good points himself, I can go with that. Therefor, I think VE is scum. I've seen Cheeses' case on Yamato, and I have to read through it properly. However, not now, cause I'm tired as hell after sacrificing too much sleep for mafia this weekend. I'll take a shower and be back in about 30 minutes, if you have any questions I will answer them then, else/afterwards I'm off to bed. | ||
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On February 12 2013 06:38 VisceraEyes wrote: Phagga I wasn't convinced Palmar was scum at the time of the prplhz vote. It wasn't until my exclamation in the thread that I thought Palmar was scum. It was strictly a lurker lynch at that point, with slight scummy undertones based on his lack of contribution. What I thought at the time was that if Palmar came back and actually did something, he'd be town and his lynch of prplhz would go through. Or, yes, that he was scum and bussing his mate...but at the time fo the post in question, I wasn't convinced Palmar was actually scum (hence the unvote ). I'm sorry I couldn't understand what you were asking earlier. I hope this clears that up. Noted. I'd like to hear what others think about the points I brought up. I'm off to bed now. | ||
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On February 12 2013 14:01 yamato77 wrote: I did address them. If you can't read that post and understand how the arguments I outlined there are false, you have comprehension problems, and I can't help that. Go away. Yamato, why did you sit on your reads D2? I asked this before, but never got an answer. I would also like to know more about your thought process when you said that Mocsta is no longer a scumread of yours D1 (I pointed that out in this post. Mocsta, what do you think of the two points I raised regarding VE? | ||
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I would like to remind everyone in this context that this game was specifically made to force scum into activity. Scum metas might be useless. I assume that most scums in this game actually try to play more active than they usually do. Exactly because they know that else they barely have a chance of winning. Scum metas might be interesting if they match (as a starting point to look more into a player), but don't draw the conclusion that someone is not mafia because the scum meta does not mach. | ||
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On February 13 2013 01:40 yamato77 wrote: Phagga, if that's the best you can do to discredit prplhz, I am not impressed. He is townier than you by a long shot. *facepalm* that was a general comment. I was not discrediting prplhz. The comments about him were just an example. And why are you never answering my questions? | ||
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Yamato, you are either scum or them you do not know my alignment. My vote stays where it is for now. | ||
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Why did you withold your reads in Dawn? | ||
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On February 13 2013 03:38 yamato77 wrote: You mean before day 2 or during day 2? Before should be obvious. During, I withheld my reads because I didn't want to get swayed in my choice for the lunch based on people agreeing or disagreeing with reads that I made public beforehand. I did as Sloosh suggested and let the nominees take the forefront of the discussion. Yes, I meant Day 2. I even found the post from sloosh you reference, I understand now. This, and the bolded part here On February 13 2013 02:40 yamato77 wrote: By that I mean I think I covered why I switched my read on Mocsta. I don't think a mafia player would go through the effort to make a case on me like that. It's far more likely for him to be town and think me mafia for attacking him than him being mafia and coming up with enough shit to throw at me to make me look bad for attacking him. My meta read was weak anyway, so it wasn't important for me to continue to bog down the thread with long responses to him just to get a better read on him. If you have anything else, consolidate it into concise points, and I will respond equally concisely later. is enough for me to ##Unvote: Yamato77 for now. | ||
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On February 13 2013 07:19 slOosh wrote: You do it by detailing why you have such a strong town read on VE and have been soft defending him all game despite numerous instances where you agree that he is weird. Sloosh, since your vote is on VE: do you think snarfs is not scum or VE is the better lynch? | ||
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On February 13 2013 07:32 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Mocsta, I at least think you have some reason here. What say you to snarfs lynch? I have no idea what the scum rationale is supposed to be for this supposed mislynch anyway. Scum would have bussed VE so fucking hard, hit there heads on the ground doing so. Why would they buss VE harder when he is scum then when he is town? | ||
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On February 13 2013 07:34 slOosh wrote: phagga and prplhz, what the heck, how is choosing Snarfs vs VE so difficult for you guys when it is so obvious in your filters that you find indefinitely prefer VE over Snarfs? Dude, I might do the deciding vote here, I just want to be sure it's the right pick. That said, snarfs is a lurker, for whatever reason. VE had stuff in his play that just did not make any sense from a town perspective. Let's lynch VE. ##Vote: VisceraEyes | ||
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On February 12 2013 11:09 Mocsta wrote: Snarfs: One thing in Snarfs favour is early game I asked for his read on a post from VE. Even though he already voted VE, he said the tell was "null".. This at least shows he is not 100% tunneled in his approach. I think Snarfs problem may have been he pushed his scum reads before establishing his innocence. Mocsta, the bolded part does not really make much sense for me, could you please explain this in more detail? | ||
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##unvote: VisceraEyes ##Vote: Snarfs let's lynch the scummy lurker. | ||
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On February 13 2013 07:56 slOosh wrote: Lol what the crap is that phagga? I can't say, the VE lynch feels wrong. Snarfs has gone for too long and his actions don't make sense from a townie point of view. VE seems sincere in his last posts after my case (not the ones he's capslocking), but his scum play can be pretty good too I think? Fuck, I don't know what I should do. I need a break. be back in 10. | ||
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On February 13 2013 08:23 slOosh wrote: You were also confident about VE flipping scum. What changed? It's mainly my intuition. Some of it has to do with his last posts after my case (like this or this, he is making a lot of sense. Afterwards, the more I reread my case and notes, the more I got the impression that what I felt was scummy behaviour were minor points that were not all that important in the overall play of VE. And I felt that although he was not the towniest player by far, he was posting stuff that made sense. I really have a hard time explaining it right now. I just tell you this: I normally don't follow my intuition, I try to follow the facts collected in cases by me and others. However, I've misslynched more than once like this, and ignored people that I felt were scummy but could not get the hard facts on. I'm doing it the other way round this time. | ||
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 Gonna reread and lurk a bit until tomorrow. Also, I'll be going to the cinema on valentines day with my wife and some friends, so my activity will be restrained to work times. | ||
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On February 13 2013 19:34 Oatsmaster wrote: Good job at looking like scum phagga Of course, because there is no way a townie would switch his vote when he feels he is about to misslynch. A townie should always stick to his cases, no matter what new posts his target has written and no matter if he is going to misslynch or not. /sarcasm What you fail to see is that my actions can also be explained by town motivation, not only by scum motivation. Some of you guys have some much confirmation bias by now towards me that you are unable to see this, you only see the possible scum motivation and scream "SCUM! SCUM! SCUM!". | ||
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On February 13 2013 20:31 Oatsmaster wrote: Of course, cause there is no way scum would switch their vote when he feels that it is suspicious if he keeps going for it, and since there is no traction for the other lynch. you are completely missing the point. So Phagga, who is scum? I'll tell you tomorrow when Dawn is over. | ||
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- Because I need to reread D3 after what happened | ||
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Another example, Mocsta saying that I'm scum if I'm not up for nomination. If mafia thinks that Mocsta is someone with influence on town, they might not nominate me because they hope that he might push a misslynch on me. Which also makes his post sort of a self-fullfilling prophecy. I know I'm making some assumptions here, but there is no reason to give this information out now. Activity will be rather low today. Also consider that the reads of several people might have changed after yesterdays events. Let the mafia be in the dark about who we see as town and who as scum, so they have a harder time to damage town with good nominations. | ||
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On February 14 2013 01:52 slOosh wrote: prplhz is the safest / best lynch for next cycle: you can read his filter and look at his interactions with Snarfs and VE, as well as the total apathy he had concerning the D3 lynch. phagga is still my top read - observe his vote switch behavior last night: Currently the votes are split between Snarfs and VE. At this point I'm still strongly voting VE and the only potential hint of my change is this post where I say I'm rereading. So, it looks like slOosh is probably gonna stick with VE. Votes are at 4-4 with prplhz voting CC. phagga comes in and waffles so I question his hesitation: Well, so much for careful consideration. He calls Snarfs a lurker in the first quote. Somehow in a span of ~15 minutes Snarf's lurking has become scummy and more deserving of a lynch against someone who "had stuff in his play that just did not make any sense from a town perspective." Not only that, it isn't because he reviewed his notes as he explains later - the 2nd quote is straight up YOLO. There's a mismatch in attitude consistency. A "go with the flow" mentality. You are completely ignoring that I wrote here that snarfs is an alternative for me. It is simply not true that I changed my read on snarfs from null to red in 15 minutes, I was already considering him as an alternative earlier. And yes, it was a go with the flow decision, but one between two people that I considered scum at some point on D3.[/quote] Your case is still as bad as it was before. I have told you that I had other town games where I did not post a single post like the one you quoted and was still town. Only because I may be capable of such posts does not mean I have done them in every town game. So all you are saying is that I am playing worse D1 than in Wheel of fortune. That does not make me scum. And the last point has been refuted. Should still lynch prplhz first. Then when prplhz flips scum I'll come, point at prplhz's filter and say "aha!" then we can lynch phagga. Can't do that with Snarfs' filter cause he barely mentions him - Coinky dink? Maybe. But add enough of them and the more straightforward answer is that he is scum. If I am your top scumread, then why don't you want to lynch me first? Even more, how is prplhz a better/safer lynch when I am your top scum read? Mocsta, Sloosh: Do you guys see the possibility that Cheese did indeed bus snarfs, but that VE is actually town? Why/why not? VE: What is your read on sloosh is, currently. | ||
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Also: On February 14 2013 04:03 prplhz wrote: My apathy concerning D3 lynch was because my case was ignored and the two people up for lynch were almost just as scummy as each other in my opinion. If you're gonna lynch phagga because I'm scum then you should really lynch me first so that you can reconsider phagga in the light of my flip. There is no reason as a townie to ask for your mislynch, and you should know it. What the hell are you trying to achieve? | ||
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I personally doubt it. | ||
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So, yes, I think there is a (small) possibility that cheese is indeed scum, and that scum took the risk of prolonging the game, so they could give one of their teammates more town cred. | ||
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But noone picked up on it because he was there were other scummy players noone bothered to properly analyse his play. is supposed to say: But noone picked up on it because there were other scummy players, and noone bothered to properly analyse his play. | ||
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On February 14 2013 19:34 Oatsmaster wrote: I think slOosh is scum because He says, I am so helpful to town guys. This rubs me as scummy because town doesnt care about how well they are playing, just care about finding and lynching scum. He is really concerned about people misinterpreting his words, in other words, It means that he wants to look really townie. Only scum care about looking townie. I disagree. I sometimes feel the same in the beginning of games (see Cheeses case on me). People have the habit to try to lynch you for miniscule stuff D1, which makes me super worried when I see someone misinterpreting my stuff. I don't think that only scum reacts this way. They way he is so sure that he will be picked d2 as one of the nomination candidates is really odd. Especially since he justifies it as 'I always die n1, so scum want me gone soon and fast' when if he plays good enough to get shot n1, he is never gonna get lynch d2, no matter who is up with him. The fact that he will not get lynched D2 when he plays strongly is no reason for scum to not put him up for lynch. After all sloosh is known to be a strong town leader, and scum wants to get rid of those, so they put up players that are either a danger to them (because of their reputation) or are looking very townie. If sloosh knows that he can be a good town player (and I'm sure he does), then it is absolutely ok to anticipate his nomination. And a quick summary which basically states the description of a town and a scum. No links where phagga is doing the thing he says. This at best is lazy, and at worst is slOosh trying to mislead us with a post that looks good with no substance. I agree that the case is bad slOosh says, 'Shut up, I have described the situation so I can explain why I have been chosen tomorrow. Now, dont talk so scum has an advantage due to the lack of information town has.' The quote is from here and it is indeed interesting. He thinks he has found the perfect scum strategy, therefor he tries to shut the discussion down. What is the town motivation here? After all, if other people offer their opinions on how scum might nominate people, would town not benefit from it? He posts the phagga case and just keeps asking people to read and opinions. This is to see if he should push the phagga lynch tomorrow. He says this, but never fully explains why VE is scum, just snipes at him and basically asks Palmar to make his case for him. Random defense of Jay for basically slight pressure. Scum want to defend someone so that they can buddy them subtly by 'helping' them. Really weird post where he says, 'I am bad and you guys are totally better at the game as me' Town wouldnt want to say that because no one will take his reads seriously anymore. Scum would because they seem apologetic and cooperative. So much buddying of CC here. Keeps going with the self-depreciating attitude, and tries to buddy me too. Again, 2 really cooperative and 'helpful' posts. And again self-depreciating Yes, these posts irritated me to. It kinda seemed like he felt caught and tried to look better by apologizing. Specially the "MVP right there" to Mr. Cheesecake was waaaaaaaay over the top. Cheese has gotten one Scum so far of four, and the game is still going. my own reads got really mixed up by last nights events, and I had/have to reread some stuff myself. I can agree with his quote. prplhz is the safest / best lynch for next cycle: you can read his filter and look at his interactions with Snarfs and VE, as well as the total apathy he had concerning the D3 lynch. And a totally lazy case which he does NOT back up at all with anything, and in fact Pushes phagga as an association case. I saw scum doing this too. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I mentioned that in my post to sloosh as well. There are some good points in your case, I would really like to hear slooshs answer. And with this I'm off to the train. Will probably be online again tomorrow as I wrote earlier. | ||
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On February 13 2013 20:31 Oatsmaster wrote: Of course, cause there is no way scum would switch their vote when he feels that it is suspicious if he keeps going for it, and since there is no traction for the other lynch. So Phagga, who is scum? Sorry, forgot about that one. Djo and Jay for now. Jay: there is stuff in his play that does not make any sense. See Palmar lynch for an example. I had a scum read on Djo earlier, will be interested to see what debears does. He has around another 48 hours to show me that I might be wrong. earlier reads: Yamato: he looks townie at times, scummy at others. I feel unsure about him. VE: I took the time to reread his stuff, and I do no longer feel confident lynching him. Regarding the current nominees. I think the probability that one of them is scum is rather low. So it will mostly be who I think has made the most useful analysis so far. I will be back with more tomorrow. | ||
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On February 15 2013 13:57 slOosh wrote: Alright, Friday / weekends tend to escape me (a la last week) so I want to do this just in case I can't make it until deadline. I think all the nominees are town. I really do. I'll be defending whoever is alive out of us for tomorrow unless there is a reasonable body of evidence. And no, "that would be a sick scum play" is not a good reason, because possibility =/= reality. If it is what people are speculating it is, there should be evidence for it beyond "these things fit in nicely", because "they are actually town, you are being paranoid and scum is elsewhere" fits just as well, if not better. So less speculating, more research, more evidence, more cases. That said, as much as it sucks, I'm going to vote off Mocsta again. It sucks because he is putting in lots of effort etc. I'm voting him because if he is alive tomorrow, I find him to be a highly potential mislynch candidate (much more so than Mr. Cheesecake), so it's better to "use him up" during these even cycles when a townie has to die. ##Vote: Mocsta prplhz, could I have a bit more detailed explanation on your townish read on phagga? WHAT? There are several people who have me, prplhz and jay as solid scumreads, and you are worried that Mocsta will be misslynched? What's the basis for this? On February 14 2013 23:48 phagga wrote: Mocsta, Sloosh: Do you guys see the possibility that Cheese did indeed bus snarfs, but that VE is actually town? Why/why not? VE: What is your read on sloosh is, currently. | ||
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Let's actually read Palmars post before we blindly sheep him :D On February 10 2013 21:57 Palmar wrote: I think you guys should lynch a few people, but should I flip I want you guys to not forget that however good you think my scumreads are, any mediocre player with updated reads is more valuable than a dead great player with his old reads. Not to mention I'm not invested far enough into this game to actually consider my reads worth too much. | ||
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On February 15 2013 08:20 slOosh wrote: phagga also isn't scumhunting, but it isn't as blindingly obvious as the lurker prplhz. Look at his lines of questioning - they are painfully weak and it's not so much him trying to gather information to make conclusions, but just asking around. The two biggests reads he has had in the game, yamato and VE were dropped when town sentiments were different. He is go-with-the-flow blendy scum. My reads changed when Yamato and VE started to make more sense. I had my vote on Yamato and asked him several times to answer my questions, when he did he actually did it in a convincing manner. That is why I took my vote off him. I also asked VE several times to answer my questions, until I not only got his answer, but also more posts from him that made me doubt my scum read on him. seriously, this is joke. I was accused that me staying on JX and barely interacting with him D1 was scummy, and now I am getting accused for being scummy after changing my vote/read after interacting with Yamato. I clearly pointed out which lines of Yamato made me unvote, go back and read it. Do you think that my reasoning is weak, or what is your problem with it? | ||
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Mocsta: He was annoyed by oats after their banter, but reads him as null/leaning town. He gives his own thoughts on many things. Nice analysis of Yamatos cases on Mocsta and me. Is unable to see that he was responsible for the escalation with Oats in the beginning too. His playthrough of the different Oats/Mocsta possibilities is biased and weak. I Like the short analysis on Jay D1, and good follow-up. He says he was dissapointed that sloosh did not contribute more during D2. He has less analysis later on, but is still pointing out stuff and giving his thoughts on things freely. Finally, I agree with his analysis on sloosh. Mr. Cheesecake: His early analysis on snarfs, me and djo is ok. Lots of interactions with many people. Does not have a lot of big analysis on D1, but he points out many small things. Good analysis on Yamato. Good analysis on snarfs before the lynch. In his case on me he interpretes stuff I said differently than I meant it (see my earlier defense), but his case is better than the one from sloosh. Sloosh: He has a good analysis of yamato in the beginning, and good analysis of the nomination process. Although I do not like that he shut down the discussion about it. Bad case on me. His pushing of VE was ok, later votes him. Says in this post that he is not as confident in his reads as he usually is. I already said why I don't like his latest post on me, and also pointed out that I think his logic for a Mocsta misslynch tomorrow is fail. From this it is clear for me that Mr. Cheesecake will not get my vote. I also feel that Mocsta's posts are more helpful to town then sloosh's. Therefore, ##Vote: Sloosh I'm on the train. Weekend starts, which is mainly family time. | ||
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On February 16 2013 14:34 jaybrundage wrote: I think Sloosh is town. Mocsta flipping should make that clear. Scum nominated three towneis day one. I wish everyone else caught on this fact sooner. And didn't lynch Mocsta. This is why i preferred killing CC yesterday Because he wasn't in that initial group. I think phagga has a good chance to flip red. Also I think Debears is a candidate for a lynch as well. You completely dodged Oats question. What do you think on Oats case on slooshs? What on sloosh's and my response? I will be on and off for the 10-12 hours. I will write up a post about my thoughts on Ve and around the snarfs lynch, hoping to give you guys a better insight on what was going on in my head. will also do some rereading and comment on a few more things. Finally, prplhz activity has dropped so hard by now it's no longer funny. His early play looked ok, but his low activity and interest for the last 5 days smell like scum prplhz. ##Vote: prplzh | ||
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Towards the End of D1 I read through VE's filter and found this hole in his reasonig regarding the Palmar vote. I asked him several questions. However, he did not answer the last one. Instead, I saw this post of Mocsta (and his follow-up) and prplhz vote on VE. However, I was by far not feeling save enough about my read on VE to actually lynch him. VE had pointed out stuff about palmar that I thought were good, so I was really undecided on him. I wrote this: On February 08 2013 09:25 phagga wrote: I am confident in my vote on JX and will not shift away from it, just to make this clear. On February 08 2013 09:52 phagga wrote: k, so looks like I'm not gonna get an answer from VE in the next few minutes. I'm off to bed, it's almost 2 am here. A couple of things: - VE is not a good lynch today, i do not agree with prplhz there. - I am warming up to a Palmar lynch, because VE's point about his behaviour (voting prplhz, trying to shift votes away from JX) are pretty solid. Nevertheless, it's JX today, let's see him flip red. I really did not want to lynch VE at this point, all I wanted were answers to my question to get a better read on him. However, I feared that a wagon might pop up on VE once I was gone, so I wanted to make it clear that I would not support a lynch on him currently. VE failed to answer my question for a longer time to my satisfaction, and so I finally made a case on him. At that point I had my vote on Yamato, who I felt more sure that he was scum. The case on VE should mostly be generate pressure on him (he had ignored me a few times when asking for answers), and hopefully get some more insight in his alignement. he then finally answered. The answer would explain his behaviour, although it could have also been a lie to straight up cover that he was just scum losing track of what he had done earlier. Ve then followed up with a few posts that made me feel even more unsure about my scum read. Next followed Cheese's case on snarfs. I answered that there were a few minor points that I disagreed, but that I generally liked the case and that cheese's case make snarfs an alternative to vote. I also wrote that I would prefer Yamato over snarfs. I left out VE on purpose, because I had started to feel unsure about him. Yamato answered my questions in a way that convinced me that he was the wrong guy to lynch. Now i was sitting on the fence on who to vote. I realized at that point that my vote might be deciding, so got I got scared to vote the wrong guy. I had no clear preference anymore, cheese's case on snarfs made sense. I had my own doubts on VE still. So who do I pick? I tried to get more input from others: On February 13 2013 07:24 phagga wrote: Sloosh, since your vote is on VE: do you think snarfs is not scum or VE is the better lynch? On February 13 2013 07:37 phagga wrote: Why would they buss VE harder when he is scum then when he is town? (I realise that the above was a dumb question, but I was so worked up at that point I could barely think straight) Then jay and Sloosh started to pressure me because I had a case on VE and none on snarfs: On February 13 2013 07:28 jaybrundage wrote: I think VE is scum for sure. We need you on this lynch to kill him. He has been soft defended by numerous players. Because hes scum and they don't want him to die. I don't think Snarfs is scum Because currently the people on him are on my scum list. And the people on VE are on my town list. Also VE has done alot of scummy things. Phagga you wrote a big case on VE before. I'm surprised that you have any doubts about VE On February 13 2013 07:34 slOosh wrote: phagga and prplhz, what the heck, how is choosing Snarfs vs VE so difficult for you guys when it is so obvious in your filters that you find indefinitely prefer VE over Snarfs? On February 13 2013 07:36 jaybrundage wrote: Yea I find it this interesting as well. Phagga legit wrote a big case on VE. And know that VE isn't getting lynched he's hesitating At that point I pretty much crumbled. I thought "yeah, they are right, I had a case on VE, let's lynch him". On February 13 2013 07:39 phagga wrote: Dude, I might do the deciding vote here, I just want to be sure it's the right pick. That said, snarfs is a lurker, for whatever reason. VE had stuff in his play that just did not make any sense from a town perspective. Let's lynch VE. ##Vote: VisceraEyes The problem was: I had a really bad feeling about it. I went back and checked Cheeses case. I saw him pushing the snarfs lynch hard in the thread. I remembered that I was not that confident in VE being scum. And then I thought: "I have to lynch the guy who I think has the highest probability to flip scum". Which led to the vote switch. On February 13 2013 07:55 phagga wrote: You know what, fuck it. ##unvote: VisceraEyes ##Vote: Snarfs let's lynch the scummy lurker. I was still unsure after the vote switch, until I took a break and walked away from the comp and went outside for some fresh air. After coming back, I was sure I did the right thing and left my vote on snarfs. Regarding sloosh's Unvote: I read pretty fast over that post (or most posts, at that point) and did not realise that he had actually unvoted snarfs again. I thought his vote was already on snarfs. (as I said, I could not think straight anymore). I did not conciously decide to sheep him or anything, although I can't rule out that this subconciously influenced me on my decision (I did have a town read on sloosh). I was aware on how the vote switch would look. I knew I would get heat for it later on, but I did not care. All I ask every single one of you who want to vote me / is voting me: Consider if the vote switch cannot be town motivated. If you really think that a townie would never do what I did the way I did it, then well, leave your vote on me. If you do see a likely town motivation behind my vote switch, then I hope you have more reasons to vote me, since that switch alone is not alignement indicative. | ||
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On February 18 2013 00:57 debears wrote: What is your read on jay? Why vote prp over jay? I'd say both of them are quite more likely to flip scum than you, especially jay. I earlier wrote earlier that you and jay are my current lynch candidates. I wrote that because I looked at the player list and crossed out who I do not want to lynch, and you two were left over. However, your analysis of the game so far puts me on null for you. Jay is still a candidate though. The reason my vote is on prplhz is because I want to see more from him. He has been giving us nothing for a long period of time. However, I thought his early play was ok, so I am a bit surprised that he falls off so hard now. So let's see if he can actually come up with some more content to allow us a better read on him. I read your posts on jay. I've written earlier that I thought his behaviour around palmars lynch was barely town motivated, I agree with your analysis on this topic. The really strong part however was your post on his behaviour around the snarfs lynch. I did Ctrl+F his filter for snarfs, and there is really no analysis from his side why Snarfs should not be lynched. Instead he was almost begging people to switch to VE without giving reasons. I also thought this post to be very strange: On February 13 2013 11:21 jaybrundage wrote: Wow did not see that coming. Snarf's complete lack of input this game really made me think he was just a silent townie. Glad you guys saw who was scum better then I did. Great job town The overall tone of this post is buddying. The second sentence does not make any sense. So if someone is not saying a single word the whole game he is probably a silent townie? How can he see a townie motivation in not saying anything? Silence of a player is in the best case a null tell, in the worst case a mafia tell. The post feels so fabricated, I always expect a "/sarcasm"-tag at the end. I really have a hard time to believe that someone who is genuinely surprised by the outcome of that lynch would react that way. Add this to the analysis you posted, and I feel confident that jay will flip red. TL;DR, I support a lynch on prplhz and jay. | ||
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On February 17 2013 14:58 Oatsmaster wrote: Well yamato, dick play isnt good play. Anyway, answer the OTHER QUESTION. I have a null read on VE and slOosh. The thing is, they should be doing so much more than they are currently doing. They have no fear of nightkills so WHY arent they being ultra mega useful to town? Regarding Sloosh, I really think he is having a bad game. When looking through his filter I don't get the sense that he is pushing a mafia agenda, but I disagree with almost everything he writes by now. Regarding VE it's a bit trickier. I found his case on Mocsta bad, as was the case on sloosh. However, he has been on snarfs early on. Also, he gave Yamato a gleaming green read at a point where he could have pushed for a lynch on Yamato (3 votes on Yamato at the time of that post, 2 on VE, 2 on snarfs). His activity has dropped of sharp for the last few days, but the few posts he has actually have some content (in contrast to prplhz, for example) I feel that sloosh and VE are townies who are having a bad game. | ||
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Hey VE: Any updates on your reads? | ||
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I got an exam to write tomorrow morning, so my activity is a bit lower than usual. Expect some more input from in about 20 hours. | ||
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On February 20 2013 09:18 jaybrundage wrote: I agree with your reads simply put. And I wouldnt even call it a real sheep dont forgot I was pushing Djo early on as scummy. Before anyone else even noticed him. I was actually on the VE wagon. And I reallllly wanted to lynch him. Also I been saying Phagga was scummy all game. Sooooo yea there's that. Anyway you say im likley town. And if we both agree on whos scum what's the problem You said that about 7 out of 13 people, see https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsP1hp8cIarUdGlZNGk4cF96Vll3QkdhVzVsT0ZNRFE&usp=sharing Also, you posted this list a few minutes before you posted the excel sheet, which also includes prplhz and Oats that are listed as town in your sheet. On February 12 2013 06:07 jaybrundage wrote: Ok here is my guess for the scum team :D first time doing this so be nice. VisceraEyes, Mr.Cheesecake, OatsMaster, Yamato77/prplhz So you called 9 out of 10 people scummy or scum on D3 in a timespan of 6 minutes (excluding Palmar and JX who had already flipped, and yourself). Good job. I guess you always have to keep your doors open as scum, right? I still want to lynch Jay. I feel confident about him being scum. I think that Cheese and Oats are town. I'm undecided about the rest. I think Yamato and debears are probably town, but that makes VE and sloosh scum with jay, which does not feel right. So I currently really wanna get rid of jay, and move on from there. Sloosh: Ok, VE and I are scum (according to your reads). Snarfs is scum. D3 there is a wagon on Snarfs and one on VE. According to you, I, as scum, switch from one wagon on a scum to another wagon on a scum in a completely unconvincing fashion after I had my vote on a townie. Are you really that dellusional to believe this? Hell, it was clear that I would get heat for that vote switch, are you seriously believing scum would take such a risk? For what gain? Reread how D3 ended, and imagine that VE and I are both scum. Does that behaviour make sense to you? I mean, it is obvious for everyone that I did not get town cred for that vote switch. So why would I do this if I, VE and snarfs are scum? Also, some stuff you bring up now against me is just plain ridicoulus. Want some examples? On February 20 2013 15:08 slOosh wrote: - As scum you also fear going against the flow. Aka, his backing off of VE and yamato cases when they weren't getting support. VE was one of the two major wagons D3, how is backing off of my case on him going against the flow? On February 20 2013 15:22 slOosh wrote: - jay notices phagga missing. wants more info on Snarfs That was in the middle of the night in my timezone (5.30 am if I translated it correctly). I had written a post about 6.5 hours earlier. Jay even did that a second time AGAIN when it was in the middle of the night in my timezone. If anything, that should tell you something about jay, not me. Most of the stuff you write by now is you looking for the scummiest interpretation of my action, ignoring that everything can be explained as town motivated as well. When I'm asking you questions or writing you back, you are mostly ignoring me. Unless someone else besides you wants my comments on the stuff you write about me, I'm done replying to it. Seeing how you are covering jay and ignoring debears request to debunk his case on jay too, you are the one who I see as the biggest liability for town. ##Vote Sloosh Sorry for the absence, lots of real life stuff came up this week. I will not be on too much today, but will hopefully find more time from tomorrow on again. I should be around for another hour or two. | ||
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On February 21 2013 00:04 Oatsmaster wrote: Phagga Top 2 scumreads 2-3 lines. GOGOGOGO Jay: Not taking hard stances early on (into D3). Defending snarfs until the last moment. Awkward reaction after snarfs lynch. See debears case. Sloosh or VE. Currently it looks like Yamato is being lynched, and I'd guess he will flip town. Scum needs to set up a misslynch for tomorrow. Jay, Cheese, VE and Sloosh are all pushing me as possible misslynch. Jay is scum, Cheese is town, leaves either Sloosh or VE. VE: I don't like how he disappeared a few times in important moments (Check his activity around the prplhz lynch. goes of to improve his reads, promises feedback, never comes back. Or Mocsta: makes a case and votes Mocsta, disappears). His case on Mocsta was bad and felt scum motivated. Sloosh: His logic has been bad a few times as I pointed out, his recent "evidence" for me being scum is sometimes outright ridiculous, which he might try to use as a setup for a misslynch. | ||
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## Vote VE Would also lynch jay. | ||
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On February 21 2013 16:17 yamato77 wrote: Could you scream mafia any louder, phagga? Yeah, I can. Is that alignment-indicative? Also, I am in the train, so I don't really want to scream right now. Don't you worry, Yamato, I got more to write, but not from the phone. Also, noone gives a shit about what I post by now anyway, at least that's how I perceive it, cause I am totes scum, you know. | ||
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On February 21 2013 17:00 yamato77 wrote: You have to sheep your town reads, silly, or you're doing it wrong. Another reason it makes zero sense for phagga to want to kill jay, but hey, I think we all know he's mafia, too. Ok look I was starting to write a post where I wanted to point out how ridicoulus all those associations are you guys are drawing. I started to list the different suspects being thrown around, and it looked like this: These people stated yesterday that they think debears is scum: Sloosh, Cheese, Jay, Oats These people stated the they think Jay is scum: VE, Oats, Debears, Phagga These people statet they think phagga is scum: Sloosh, Cheese, Jay, VE and with a weaker read Yamato. Let me colour that list with my town reads/flips: debears Sloosh, Cheese, Jay, Oats Jay VE, Oats, Debears, Phagga phagga Sloosh, Cheese, Jay, VE and with a weaker read Yamato. Ok, I see the light now. I somehow always thought that all those associations are convoluted and everyone is blaming everyone else and we are just circle jerking here. I see now I was wrong. I will go and read over old town games and the one scum game from jay and then post what I find, and what of it is applicable for this game and what not. So not lynching jay for now. | ||
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D1 play This is one of Jays better posts in British Empire D1: On January 05 2013 14:22 jaybrundage wrote: You have attempted to not trod on anyones toes this game. You think hapa and dp are town you think Xalatos is town/null You give some weak reads on yamato and me. And then you say you would consider voting DP but would be hesitant. Question what made you switch? You said you thought he was town, But now you can see your self voting for him. What made you go from probably town to possible lynch target as scum. Also with all that has happened in the thread any new scum reads? He is drawing his own conclusion, asking questions, trying to figure stuff out. He is not scared to put his vote on someone who is not currently under scrutiny by others: On January 06 2013 03:32 jaybrundage wrote: First off you said you have done this before how many times have you done this tunneling on DP and out of the times you have done it how many times have you been wrong. If you play with DP alot and you can read him consistently then I will reconsider my position. The reason I find him scummy as been said before. Is his flip flopping on Hapa from hes obv completly with out a doubt scum to i have no fucking idea. It seemed to me like scum backing off of a mislynch they were pushing gone wrong. I personally put alot less faith in reading people's reactions to when they are about to be or going to be lynched. The quote was me being frustrated with DP's flip flopping he has gone from scum to town to scum now giving someone townie cred for the possibility of one of his scum reads being town. So yes he did change his opinion on hapa again. I didnt say anything wrong. Also I dont like CC hes doing absolutely nothing this game. He has made some worthless comments about concentrating on finding scum. He was mentioning the DP-Hapa conversations early one with out giving his opinion on him hasn't commentated much on it when DP was doing some scummy stuff. He makes a case on Xalatos for making a 180 on DP and calls him scummy for it. However when DP does so many 180s on Hapa hes trying to pull off a 900. CC doesn't give it a second thought although DP is doing the samething as Xalatos CC ignores it. CC has played like he has more knowledge on other townies. He would of known if DP and Hapa were town or not so he played accordingly. Also his lack of anything in his filter is really disconcerting. He has said useless 1 liners. And made a case of 180s that were exactly what DP was doing. ##Unvote ##Vote Mr.CheeseCake Also he is constantly asking others about their opinions on his case and his scum reads. He is trying to figure stuff out. Of course Mr. Cheese was town, so he was tunneling a townie, but there is a clear position to be found in his play. If I compare this to Nomination mafia, His D1 play is similar. In the very first post, he makes an analysis of the player he does not like and votes him: On February 07 2013 09:42 jaybrundage wrote: Howdy all The person that stuck out the post for me was Djo. I'm surprised more people haven't commented on him. He starts out with his post. He seemingly "randomly" picks Oats out for a RNG lynch. But he uses Oats post number and uses a number that will give him Oats as his target. Its not random so why does he call it random. He proposes using the random lynch to create discussion. But then uses it as an excuse to stop conversation and discussion and not give his thoughts on Mocsta. When Oats ask's him what his thoughts are on lynching him. Djo again dodges the question further showing that he never intended to try to participate in the conversation and discussion that his RNG lynch was supposed to create. He instead sidesteps the question because he wants other players to comment first. Citing Palmar as well trying to get solid town vet behind it. Every since his RNG lynch he has been pushing Oats and not really contributing hiding behind his lynch to get away with saying anything of significance. Town Djo can write a damn good case. I think we have scum Djo here hiding behind a RNG to not contribute. Also note his complete disappearing act after contributing nothing. ##Vote Djodref He is trying to pressure him, asks other people about his case and is interested in figuring Djo out. HOWEVER, the vote switch to JX is a bit off. His argumentation is that we have to consolidate, so he switches to JX who he thinks has a good chance to flip scum. On February 08 2013 02:54 jaybrundage wrote: In response to prplhz about my pressure on Djo. I pressured Djo because I didn't like the way he was posting and using his RNG lynch to avoid discussion. I still don't see him as town and think people have let him go to quick as silly town. As i stated tho we need to consolidate and i would be fine doing it on JX. While he started posting he is doing a terrible job of establishing his townieness and i still think he can flip scum. Also how the votes are spread out makes me think that JX has an even likelier chance to flip scum. Palmar I would would like your thoughts on the JX lynch In British Empire, he kept his vote on Cheesecake even though town was consolidating on another target, as he said he thought that the target was not scum. The situations are therefore not directly comparable. Regarding his sheeping It is very true that it seems to be his normal town play to sheep strong town leaders. He sheeps Hapa like made in British IF he thinks that Hapas reads make sense. Jay openly disagrees with Hapa on DP, while blatantly sheeping him on other occasions. On January 08 2013 13:44 jaybrundage wrote: Yes I Sheeped Hapa in that moment, as did most of the thread on his case on you. Then Hapa turned around and gave you a town read. He explained his thought process a bit but i wasnt quite convinced. Why is it wrong to not go with everyones reads. I see nothing wrong with being suspicious of you. Would you pref i just sheep whatever the fuck hapa is saying. I then asked him again how many games he played with you has he been able to read you well before and he gave me two instances when he correctly read you as town. So with the new information i decided that I could change my read on you as scum to leaning townie. I didn't just drop my scummy read. I looked at new information presented and changed it accordingly. I believe you do the same. he is also always asking for Hapas opinions on stuff. We see the same sheeping here in Nomination, even with the occasional disagreement. I don't think I need to quote anything here from the current game. Jay is lynchbait British Empire: Jay generally played ok on D1. However, after Yamato (scum) hammered Xatalos kinda premature, Jay got pissed at him, which prompted the following reaction from Hapa: On January 08 2013 07:22 jaybrundage wrote: First off I didn't think some people would just hammer out of the blue. I expected town to reach a conclusion together and as a whole. Im also not used to Instant lynch. I thought I would have more time. I did try to stop the lynch before it happened. When i checked on the thread. Xatalos was at 4. So I posted that we shouldnt move on the lynch. But it was to late at that point and i got ninja'd by Yamatos hammer. I had a null read on Xatalos Slighty leaning townie. I put my vote where my suspicions lie and it is and still has been CC. Why do you have this terrible town read on him. Would you be down for a lynch on him tmw? Also Z-Boson is kinda erking me. I have played with him only once before that i can remember and he did a good job as scum. So im kind of suspicious of him to say the least... I fully support DPs case. And that we should move on the lynch Later on he also wrote that he would be down with a ShiaoPi lynch, followed by this post: On January 08 2013 13:48 jaybrundage wrote: DP how do you feel about a Shaiopi lynch i think his stark inactivity could hurt us whether hes scum or town? Which of course got him the accusation that he did not care if he lynched town or mafia. Several People started to call him out, until he got help from Hapa to settle things. But its a nice example of why he seems to get into trouble. I got the impression that he sometimes writes faster than he thinks, which leads to posts that are ambigous, which then leads to him getting in trouble. However, when I compare his play in British with Nomination, there really is not much of a difference. Except for one point. Stance on Lurkers On January 08 2013 13:48 jaybrundage wrote: DP how do you feel about a Shaiopi lynch i think his stark inactivity could hurt us whether hes scum or town? That post was at D2. compare it to his reaction of the snarfs lynch on D3: On February 13 2013 11:21 jaybrundage wrote: Wow did not see that coming. Snarf's complete lack of input this game really made me think he was just a silent townie. Glad you guys saw who was scum better then I did. Great job town This does not match at all. He clearly states in British that silent people hurt town, no matter if they are scum or town. However, in Nomination he is willing to just let snarfs slide by as "silent townie". This is really the big difference between the two plays. considering that snarfs flipped scum, that really does not help his case. On the other side I have to say that his meta seems quite alike to his town game in British Empire. IF he is mimicking his town meta as scum, he is generally doing a pretty good job. Not impossible, but improbable. I promised to also go through his scum game and (if I find time) through another town game. I can't do that tonight, I really need sleep. I do hope I will be able to deliver it before tomorrows deadline (in the next 26 hours or so). I tried to follow the argument of VE and Yamato, and I still think VE is scum. However, i will reread this for sure tomorrow and give you an update. | ||
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Debears case on Jay On February 17 2013 01:53 debears wrote: He pushed VE hard with no case written on VE at all by himself. He just suddenly decided "hey, VE is totes scum". You don't find that weird after he wrote about yamato? + Show Spoiler + On February 11 2013 13:02 jaybrundage wrote: YAMATO Cause Palmar said so WELP HERE WE GO Well first of all there's this Lets start from the top Yamato wants to lynch Mocsta as quite a bit of people viewed Mocsta scummy at first Oats naming one and i know he had about 3-4 votes at one point in time. However when Mocsta actually writes up his defense Yamato completly back tracks. And chalks it up to Mocsta misunderstanding his case? Yamato thought Mocsta was scum it wouldn't be misunderstanding it would be him twisting words. And then Yamato just flips it around and calls Mocsta town later. Ok So here Yamato comes full circle in Mocsta from hes scum to idk to yea hes town. And get this then Yamato calls JX scummy for calling Mocsta scum when a short while ago. Yamato was going after Mocsta with a pick axe. Also note his need as scum to want to kill Palmar ASAP. Here he just becomes unreasonable demanding a JX lynch while not even listening to alternatives The sole reason he wants to go after people now is lack of activity. He legit with all the information we have got from two lynches is gonna do a lurker lynch is he fucking srs? Yes lurking can be a tell of scum. But to use it alone as who you decide to kill at this point in the game is just a easy scum route. Also look at the people that he's defending VE prlhz the exact people that Palmar and Sloosh are going for. Also keep in mind his one track mind to want ot lynch Palmar. We have SCUM Yamato here. ##Vote Yamato Then, there's jay's refusal to lynch snarfs. + Show Spoiler + On February 12 2013 13:23 jaybrundage wrote: 1 Hey last game I was scum I used attacks on Bugs to rile him up and make him not think clearly. Nicely done. 2 Stop using emotional bullshit to try to pull out a response from people. Also you refuse to find a second candidate. WTF is this? If your town then start looking. Snarfs is not gonna be killed today. I have said this like three times and you refuse to answer. WHAT'S YOUR SECOND SCUM READ What was his reasoning for not lynching snarfs??????? + Show Spoiler + On February 12 2013 11:56 jaybrundage wrote: Snarfs: I thought snarfs was scummy for a bit. But with my change of read on VE and the way snarf was pushing VE since day 1 I have come around on him also the fact that the people who are voting him are in my scum team makes it so I think that he's a mislynch that scum is pushing. My last comment on him was to many scum want him dead and its true alot of scummy people are pushing him as a mislynch. Yamato is still a scum candidate. I'll give more thoughts on him later. I want to see his posting and what he plans to do because so far its been jack shit. The reasons you stated are the exact reasons they are probably scum. CC has sat under the radar. He hasn't been pressured and he hasn't done anything. His flipflop on yamato is also scummy as hell. Oats as well he started off decent too many people gave him a pass on his conversation with you. Since then he hasn't contributed to the town at all. You like that logical fallacy thing eh. Well ill use it against you.  not. That guy Palmar... Ill give ya a secret He's an expert Also just so you note. Oats was on Palmars town list. I do take his reads seriously but I don't mind branching out either. Was his town read on snarfs based on analysis of snarfs play? Hell no. It was an association, based on no flips, based on a couple votes on snarfs. WHY DID JAY NOT MENTION ANALYSIS OF SNARFS PLAY IF HE HAS SUCH A STRONG READ ON HIM If jay was town, he would defend snarfs based on analysis of snarfs play, not some "oh, i think these guys are scum and voting this other guys even though i have no analysis on the guy they are voting". Oats, Ctrl F jay's filter for snarfs. You will see what i mean To the caps lock: Look again at what I posted earlier about jays play in British Empire. Jay made some comments about Xatalos being scummy. After Yamato hammered Xatalos, Jay attacked him for this, saying that it was bad because he thought Xatalos looked townie. Hapa picked up on this: On January 08 2013 02:07 Hapahauli wrote: @ Jay You don't mention Xatalos much at all in your filter. Though before the lynch, you make two notable comments on Xatalos: In the first comment, you acknowledge ShaioPi's suspicion on Xatalos. In the second comment (two hours before the lynch), you promise to look into him. However, two hours of suspicion against Xatalos pass (including cases dropped by both CC and Z-Boson). You don't post in favor of Xatalos until post-lynch: You have many harsh words to say about the lynch (and apparently you were seeing townie things in his filter), and not once did you even attempt to step in and stop things. Not only this, but I can't make coherent sense of your suspicions. You were expressing a lot of desire to lynch Mr.CC post-flip, and in this post, you think MrZ and Yamato are the ones that are "scummy as fuck." Why did you not step in to stop the Xatalos lynch? Apparently you were reading his filter at the time suspicion against him was taking off, were seeing townie things in said filter, and simply did not post about it. Explain your suspicions right now. They aren't coherent. This is a very similar situation as with snarfs here. As I said earlier, I feel that jay has the habit to write faster than he thinks. He does not get back to make sure he is staying true to his earlier statements, he is acting on his guts, sometimes contradicting himself, and that leads him into trouble. So the whole snarfs situation is (contrary to what I believed earlier) not a scum tell for Jay. He could have very well reacted like this as townie. This also goes for the argumentation around the palmar lynch. In British Empire, Jay hinted that he thought Xatalos looked scummy. Xatalos gets hammered, and after the lynch Jay comes back and bitches at Yamato for hammering him because he thought he looked townie. The fact that Jay did pretty much the same thing as Townie in British Empire increases the possibility that his behaviour around the Palmar lynch was not scum motivated. On February 17 2013 02:01 debears wrote: If he was so sure VE was scum, why did he not provide analysis and reasoning that would persuade others that VE is scum? Why did he have to resort to screaming "OMG VE is scum!!!!!" Where is the logical, persuasive reasoning that a townie would provide to persuade people to his lynch? There wasn't any. There was just begging for people to not lynch scum (snarfs) and lynch VE instead In British Empire Jay pushed Z-Boson with the following argument: - "I think Mr. Zentor is scum and Z-Boson is his partner" - "I cannot imagine a Yamato/Zentor scum team" That were is arguments for z-boson being scum. All of them. On February 17 2013 02:16 debears wrote: Oats I have one more thing for you. I would also like input from others (not named Jay) on what I've wrote. What do you think about Jay's comments around the Palmar lynch? What does that post accomplish from each perspective by jay? Town - he is 99.999999% sure palmar is town. He wants to spread suspicion on everyone on the palmar wagon (even though not all the palmar wagon can be scum). He's pissed for people voting for a wagon that he was on for most of the day. He pissed because he came in with only 30 minutes left til lynch to suddenly argue for palmar What kind of town comes back 30 minutes before lynch, to suddenly switch his vote and then proceed to flame everyone about lynching a townie when he was on that townies wagon for most of the day before the flip? Scum - he knows palmar is town. He helps contribute to the palmar wagon. Then, with 30 minutes left he switches votes to act angry to look townie Bitching about a mislynch is in no way pro-town. Bitching about a mislynch when you do nothing to prevent that mislynch (coming in 30 minutes before and making two posts is not doing anything) is scummy as shit. See above. On February 17 2013 02:25 debears wrote: Yes, it's possible. Here's my problem with jay day 1 - Votes JX day 2 - votes palmar, then switches to mocsta and bitches about palmars lynch day 3 - hard defends snarfs, votes for VE Is he having that bad of a game and coincidentally doing multiple scummy things, or is he just scum? I'll keep looking The whole reason I originally followed your case is that it would make sense on most players. But if I compare his play with that of another townie game, I see that all this stuff comes from him as townie too. All your points are not alignment-indicative for Jay. They may indeed be Town-Jay-motivated. Thus you're case is weak, and brings no proof why jay is scum. And when I read Dessert Mini Mafia (where he was scum), it gets even worse. His meta this game does not match his meta in dessert at all. In Dessert, he is not analysing anything, he is not asking questions, he barely asks for the opinion of others. He talks about past games, attacks people personally (calling their cases / posts "shit" without argumentation), and how does he vote? On January 14 2013 13:11 jaybrundage wrote: WBG Answer this plz. I could lynch either one. But imma gonna go ahead and go with Xatalos. I dont like his posts. His attack of me doesnt seem to have much merit. I dont like his hard flip on Kush. Hes calling me out for doing nothing when hes done less. He throws some baseless accusations at me and just seems like hes trying ot go for an easy mislynch. Scum seem to have a habit of trying to get me mislynched day one. Soo why not use it to my advantage. I think your scum trying to put some pressure on an easy target. Well fuck that. ##Vote Xatalos There is zero analysis on Xatalos, it's just a counter-vote without any reasoning in the same post where he also calls out two other players and states that he would lynch them, still without zero analysis. And yes, Xatalos is his scum mate, but it's not directly relevant here. He later on voted Sloosh with a pseudo-analysis that was worthless (circular logic). In short, when he is town, he tries to figure stuff out, asks others about their opinions constantly and analyises the play of others. He does have is off-moments, where he votes with barely any reason, sometimes just sheeping a strong town player. As scum, he just votes, slings shit around and does ZERO analysis. I also checked his filter in Normal Mini Mafia IV. He replaced in there (as town), and that filter is even more to his meta here than British. Therefore I conclude that we are probably seeing town-jay, not scum-jay. Of course, there is the off-chance that he is indeed mimicking his townplay, but I doubt it. I will not vote jay today. | ||
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On February 22 2013 04:01 VisceraEyes wrote: Because Palmar showed up and tried to DERAIL THE JX LYNCH! I thought that meant that JX was his scumbuddy and I was willing to consolidate on JX based on his inactivity ANYWAY. All Palmar posted was: On February 08 2013 05:18 Palmar wrote: Again I can't help too much this phase. I'm not plugged well enough into the game to be willing to hard defend JX, but what little reading I've done doesn't seem to indicate he's scum. I would hope you guys can settle for an alternative lynch. Also, VE only voted JX after I asked him if he was still willing to consolidate onto JX (spoilered parts of my quote for readability): On February 08 2013 06:38 phagga wrote: + Show Spoiler + On February 08 2013 05:36 VisceraEyes wrote: The JX wagon popped up quick. FAST quick. I mean, this is like the end of the phase really with people going to bed. Uh what? not even 4 hours ago the votecount looked like this: On February 08 2013 02:12 Mocsta wrote: UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT Palmar (3) - Djo, Mocsta, JX JX (2) - phagga, Yamato77 Snarfs (2) - Mr.CC, Oatsmaster prplhz (2) - Palmar, VE Djodref (1) - JayBrundage VE (1) - Snarfs No Vote (2) -sl0osh, prplhz And that was AFTER some folks jumped away from JX again. Since then Mocsta, Oatsmaster, Cheesecake and Jaybrundage voted JX, which makes 6 votes out of 13 (or 12, if we take JX' vote away). How is that a fast quick wagon on JX? He has been discussed all day. Also: Is this still true? If not, what changed for you? On February 08 2013 06:52 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Unvote: Snarfs ##Vote: JieXian It's still true - it was just an observation. I wouldn't say he's been discussed "all day"...he doesn't even have enough content to warrant all-day discussion. And his resurgence into the thread when the threat of lynch is real certainly doesn't speak well for him either. And look at the time stamps. That's over 1.5 hours after Palmars post, and VE was active the whole time. Palmar was not. After Palmar had made his statement, noone unvoted JX. Also, VE never voiced any fear about Palmar derailing the lynch at that point. So I think that's a blatant lie of VE. Regarding VE's self-vote. On February 21 2013 11:38 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Is VE just a retard? STAY TUNED TO FIND OUT! On February 22 2013 09:31 VisceraEyes wrote: This is the way the world ends. Not with cries of pain, children screaming for their mothers....but with thunderous applause. You win Yamato. ##Vote: VisceraEyes That should answer it. Oh, and just in case, from Wheel of Fortune Post-Game discussion. On May 07 2012 07:24 wherebugsgo wrote: I'll give you some examples: from my past games, the only times I have trolled for extended periods of time with no real change in play were when I was scum. All the other times, if I have ever trolled/brought attention to myself it was either a gambit or out of exasperation with the game. Since then I've realized that gambiting is to be used rarely and that it often doesn't work as town. Voting yourself, for example, is a stupid way to establish yourself as town because anyone can do it (any scum with balls will do it) and it doesn't reveal anything about your alignment. It doesn't further discussion; it in fact impedes it, and it doesn't help find scum; it goes against it. And from Chrono Trigger ingame discussion: On November 30 2012 23:00 Acrofales wrote: I've seen it done by both. In my newbie game the first person to vote for himself was town. After that it became a thing and scummers did it in the same game too. VE has voted for himself on numerous occasions regardless of his alignment. Those are the examples I can come up with. All I can say on the subject is that it's stupid. So don't get fooled by that self-vote from VE. | ||
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On February 23 2013 04:06 jaybrundage wrote: Ok I do think VE is scum. I feel less confident on Phagga. However if CC is having doubts I think we should go with Debears then We all believe he is scum. So why not make the switch. What do you guys think. @Phagga I appreciate your defending me based on meta. But at this point I am not a lynch candidate anyway. I would like to see more posts that scumhunt from you rather then defend me (as I am not gonna get lynched today) I'm not defending you, I'm laying out my fucking thoughts on why I switch my read on you. I have been yelled at enought that I seem to "back out of my reads without reason" and that I'm just "going with the flow", and I'm sick of it. | ||
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On February 23 2013 03:56 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Then lynch Debears you fool. Why the fuck, if we are scum together, would I call Jay town and not just push his lynch? Like holy shit are you blind.... Lynch Debears or Phagga idc which. It's actually funny because everyone sheeped my scumteam prediction and now thinks I'm scum for wanting to lynch a different person on the list. Hilarious. No, I think you are scum because you are pushing me like mad, without giving any explanation about all the associations you claim. Once its me and debears, then me and jay, then me and oats. Why? Noone knows, because you just want to sling shit at me, you don't want to give out reasons. And what's the case on me, anyway? That post that is over a week old and is full of lies and misrepresentation? The fact that I did not intent to lynch snarf until you brought out your case? But did you not make the case exactly to make people vote snarf together with you? Why is it wrong then that I took it as the base for my vote? Oh, and a pro-tip: Jay never wanted to lynch snarfs in the first place. But interestingly enough, that rather seems to make him town in your eyes. On February 23 2013 01:33 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: You know I'm town, Jay. I 'confirmed' you town to the entire thread and took you off the ballot for todays lynch. We need to derail this lynch. VE could be scum, but Phagga is 100% guarenteed. He has done nothing today but buddy you and be like 'yeah, let's lynch VE :D' <--- I doubt that's a bus, because if VE were to fall, Phagga and Debears scumteam would be outed. I'm buddying up to jay? You must be fucking kidding me. I tried to show everyone the reason why I switch my read on jay. It's called laying out your thoughts. But hey, I know someone who is hardcore buddying up jay: On February 23 2013 01:33 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: @Jay Don't you think it's a bit odd that everyone who thought you were scum suddenly sheeped me and put you as town? I think VE is a mislynch today. Nobody is opposing this lynch -- literally everyone including myself wants VE dead. At lylo, that's never a good sign for town and I've only ever seen it end up in a mislynch. The only one hard defending VE is Debears, and it really has to be a stunt. Scumteam is: Phagga / Oats / Debears Both Oats / Debears have defended Phagga and not wanted to lynch him. As soon as I put out my Phagga / Debears / VE theory everybody instantly bandwagoned onto VE -- who I was least sure about. Debears is hard defending VE because he wants town to believe VE is scum. It's that simple. If they were scumbuddies, we'd have seen a bus or try to push a more realistic lynch candidate. This hard-defend of VE is nothing more than a play to 'confirm' VE as scum. He just wants to lynch VE -- and, in reality, the best way to assure that happens is to oppose his lynch. It makes so much sense. I'll put it right out for you here, Jay. Yamato is blind. He even thinks I'm scum (which, he has in every game I've played with him as town). Scum is sitting back, feet up, smoking a cigar and counting the votes to the VE mislynch. Phagga and Oats are on board with it. They have every other town vote in the game. Debears is opposing the lynch just to make it seem like they are scumbuddies so VE can get lynched even harder, confirming the scumteam in Yamato's head. It's brilliant, really, but sad that they have to manipulate Yamato to do it. You know I'm town, Jay. I 'confirmed' you town to the entire thread and took you off the ballot for todays lynch. We need to derail this lynch. VE could be scum, but Phagga is 100% guarenteed. He has done nothing today but buddy you and be like 'yeah, let's lynch VE :D' <--- I doubt that's a bus, because if VE were to fall, Phagga and Debears scumteam would be outed. VE is a mislynch, and it's becoming more obvious as time goes on. But hey folks, it's easy, cause you know, cheese is constantly rereading the thread and reconsidering his reads: On February 21 2013 11:38 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I want to get this right and not fuck it up. I want my target to be 100% certain to flip scum. As such, I will reconsider my reads on Phagga / Jay (one of them is scum, this is a certainty. The recent loljayistown sheep on me is bothersome, but not entirely wrong) as well as VE. On February 19 2013 12:28 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I have a few more ideas other than 'Lol jay / phagga scum'. On February 21 2013 16:15 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Nomination wifom best wifom. I see your point, though. As I said, I want to be 100% sure of this lynch. There are other possibilities to consider. screaming VE scum over and over at lylo doesnt achieve much. It just makes you bad, even if you are right. Yamato, characteristically you are a very confirmation biased and clouded townie. Im nkt saying you arent right in this case, but there are better ways to go about things. I'll do a full write up tomorrow on who we should lymch. If it's VE, cool. wagon of justice. However, when does write ups and reconsiderations come up, there is just him yelling "phagga is scum, together with YX", and no explanation why this is the case. Look it up. For several pages of filter, Cheese has gone on and on about me and the scum team, never telling WHY I am scum and WHERE the association lies with his other suspects. This ties in nicely with his lack of cases. Remember D3? Cheese flooded us with cases that day. Yamato, me and Snarfs each got one, how nice of him. However, since the 14th (that's over 8 days now) Cheese has not given any justification why someone besides me is scum. The only thing he wrote is a paragraph about debears where he concludes that debears is scum because of his interpretation of my vote switch on snarfs and because he soft-defended me! That's the whole basis why cheese thinks debears is scum! Further on, there is no explanation on why Oats could be scum, just that it would fit some association that was never explained. And to top it off, i was called out by VE that I gave no reason why I think VE is scum. However, cheese never gave any reason why VE is scum, and VE never called him out. Gee, I wonder why. Could it be because they are scumbuddies? | ||
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On February 23 2013 05:25 jaybrundage wrote: @Phagga. Ok at this point I would like a list of your town reads and your scum reads. Also who you want to lynch today Town: Yamato, probably Jay Scum: Ve, Cheese I'm feeling unsure about the third scum. I want to lynch VE, then progress from there. If Cheese is in the nomination, I will vote/push him. | ||
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GG all! And thanks for Hosting, GM. Any comment on my play would be appreciated. | ||
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Regarding the setup, I would propose to make the nomination Days 24/24 instead of 24/48. Additionally, it might be worth a shot to shorten the regular lynch days to 24 hours after the third day. like this: D1 48 hours D2 24/24 D3 48 hours D4 24/24 D5 24 D6 24/24 D7 24 and so on. The 48 hours period is nice on the first two odd days, but I felt after the fourth day, with the nomination phase and everything, the odd days could be shortened to 24 hours as well. | ||
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