EPTDamn school :/
Nomination Mafia
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
Damn school :/ | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
I'll catch up as much as possible tonight and tomorrow and get this train rolling | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
Would you guys like my reads from google docs for the first 30 pages? | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 14 2013 09:05 VisceraEyes wrote: I'd like you to hold off on your reads until after dawn debears. Give scum the chance to guess who you don't want lynched. Yeah when are the deadlines in hours from now? | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
| ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
Let me know if you need clarification. These are actually only thru page 23/25 i believe https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtCRkXQG1MtEdEZ1eUZNS3ZUdHFYZjRadzZNV2p5V1E#gid=0 | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
| ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 14 2013 12:27 Oatsmaster wrote: Its locked Debears. Also I dont see how this is very useful :/ Your reads will probably change by page 74.. I know that snarf got lynched and he was scum, so i factored that in to what i thought | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
I'll be looking at Mocsta/CC | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 14 2013 12:30 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: But Debears I'm really disappoint I thought you'd have more by now. Y u no read faster? This week is opening weekend for my team's season. I planned on doing the heavy lifting tonight and getting to page 50/60 | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
Between cc and mocsta, I see mocsta as more likely to be scum. Ill have to reevaluate (at page 50 now) once I catch up | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 15 2013 11:18 Oatsmaster wrote: Oh my. DEBEARS. why are you so slow? Cuz I'm thorough. I have a good idea where to head for the next lynch. I have to look at the 2 candidates for this lynch closer. And I'm on a bus ride reading fro. Phone :/ | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 15 2013 11:18 Oatsmaster wrote: Oh my. DEBEARS. why are you so slow? Cuz I'm thorough. I have a good idea where to head for the next lynch. I have to look at the 2 candidates for this lynch closer. And I'm on a bus ride reading fro. Phone :/ | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
I found his play thru his targets (djo), activity (not engaged, late entrance), and substance (some posts in there serve no purpose while looking like they do so) | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
His play scu. Oriented | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
There are some timing things with the voting and some scenarios I want to lay out Will be getting on it tonight at the latest. For now, I will most definitely not lynch cc based on his snarfs lynch. Sloosh, in the end, voted for scum, but if I read correctly his vote was after the deciding vote. Ill have to reread him. Finally, I believe as of now that mocsta should be the lynch today based on his multiple times of defending snarfs (whether soft or hard). Mocsta also tried to push counter candidates hard all day 3 away from snarfs ##vote mocsta | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
| ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 16 2013 04:28 prplhz wrote: I don't believe that Mocsta is scum and I'm voting for Mr. Cheesecake. I don't really care who you lynch of Mocsta and slOosh since I believe they're both town. ##Mr. Cheesecake So you would believe that cc as supposed scum would push his scumbuddy day 1 on and then spearhead a bus lynch on snarfs over a lynch on yamato or someone else? | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
Votecounts: + Show Spoiler + On February 12 2013 14:04 jaybrundage wrote: Vote Count Snarfs: Mr.Cheesecake, Yamato77, Yamato77: JayBrundage, Phagga, Mocsta, VisceraEyes: Snarfs, SlOosh Mr.Cheesecake: Prplhz, Prplhz: VisceraEyes, Oatsmaster Have not voted: Djodref, Oats did you vote CC today? On February 13 2013 07:08 jaybrundage wrote: Everybody has to die sometime Day 3 Vote Count: Snarfs (4): Mr. Cheesecake, yamato77, Yamato77 (1): VisceraEyes (4): Snarfs, SlOosh, Mocsta, Jaybrundage Mr. Cheesecake (1): prplhz prplhz (0): Snarfs is currently set to be lynched. Djodref has not voted. You have ~4h hours left until the end of the day. Phagga come to lynch VE with us scum is really trying to make this not happen. On February 13 2013 08:04 jaybrundage wrote: Day 3 Vote Count: Snarfs (5): Mr. Cheesecake, yamato77, Yamato77 (0): VisceraEyes (4): Snarfs, Mr. Cheesecake (1): prplhz (0): Snarfs is currently set to be lynched. Djodref has not voted. SlOosh Has not voted You have ~3h hours left until the end of the day. On February 13 2013 08:11 BioSC wrote: Day 3 Vote Count: Snarfs (6): Mr. Cheesecake, yamato77, Yamato77 (0): VisceraEyes (4): Snarfs, Mr. Cheesecake (0): prplhz (0): Snarfs is currently set to be lynched. Djodref has not voted. You have less than 3 hours left until the end of the day. On February 13 2013 10:40 BioSC wrote: Day 3 Vote Count: Snarfs (7): Mr. Cheesecake, yamato77, Yamato77 (0): VisceraEyes (3): Snarfs, Mr. Cheesecake (0): prplhz (0): Snarfs is currently set to be lynched. Djodref has not voted. You have 20 minutes left until the end of the day. CheeseCake - Town Suspicious of snarfs since d1. Early vote on snarf - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17766828 Leaves open possibility of switching to Yamato ------> Never switches to Yamato Pushes the snarf lynch hard when VE lynch gains traction. Snarf was scum, CC risked everything, saying "lynch me if snarf is town". Yamato - Town The second vote on snarfs. Vote stayed on snarfs. Pushed snarfs very hard all day. VE - slight town VE switched onto Snarfs when he himself was at threat of getting lynched. So VE's vote is a null tell to me. However, Snarfs had been pushing VE since day 1. VE was snarf's only real scumread that he pursued aggressively. This tells me the VE is most likely town, unless they (if both town), planned on a double bus at the very beginning of the game. Also, his counter wagon gained a lot of traction fast over a snarfs wagon that had a lot more scum oriented content behind it. JayBrund - Scum+ Show Spoiler + Jay pushed Yamato at first, and then VE. The yamato push isn't scummy solely because he pushed yamato, it is also scummy because of the timing and the reasoning behind his push on yamato. Context: Here is jay's post on yamato + Show Spoiler + On February 11 2013 13:02 jaybrundage wrote: YAMATO Cause Palmar said so WELP HERE WE GO Well first of all there's this Lets start from the top Yamato wants to lynch Mocsta as quite a bit of people viewed Mocsta scummy at first Oats naming one and i know he had about 3-4 votes at one point in time. However when Mocsta actually writes up his defense Yamato completly back tracks. And chalks it up to Mocsta misunderstanding his case? Yamato thought Mocsta was scum it wouldn't be misunderstanding it would be him twisting words. And then Yamato just flips it around and calls Mocsta town later. Ok So here Yamato comes full circle in Mocsta from hes scum to idk to yea hes town. And get this then Yamato calls JX scummy for calling Mocsta scum when a short while ago. Yamato was going after Mocsta with a pick axe. Also note his need as scum to want to kill Palmar ASAP. Here he just becomes unreasonable demanding a JX lynch while not even listening to alternatives The sole reason he wants to go after people now is lack of activity. He legit with all the information we have got from two lynches is gonna do a lurker lynch is he fucking srs? Yes lurking can be a tell of scum. But to use it alone as who you decide to kill at this point in the game is just a easy scum route. Also look at the people that he's defending VE prlhz the exact people that Palmar and Sloosh are going for. Also keep in mind his one track mind to want ot lynch Palmar. We have SCUM Yamato here. ##Vote Yamato Note that half his case is using palmar's words to justify his case, which isn't reasonable. Palmar himself said that his reads likely weren't great this game due to the fact he was behind on the game. Now, for the three or so parts where Jay actually writes something of his own. 1) Yamato's flip on Mocsta. Let's examine why Yamato flipped on his read on Mocsta Yamato's original case: + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2013 03:05 yamato77 wrote: QUOTE]On January 20 2013 22:18 Mocsta wrote: It doesnt matter if i think yamato is a candidate with a chance to win, I represent one vote out of 22. I thought yamato campaigned passive-aggressively; just like Toad. Its an approach I am oft in favour of when attempting to look squeaky-clean whilst attempting to manipulate. Having said that, its not pertinent to determining alignment. At least not with the information we have currently. This is from page 1 of Mocsta's filter in LIX, the game he was town. He gives out, in the part I bolded, his rationale in thinking Toad and I might be mafia, but in doing so reveals his own thought process when mafia, that being passive-aggressive is a way to play mafia. On January 12 2013 16:38 Mocsta wrote: @Sn0_Man I appreciate the sense of energy you are giving back to this thread, and I certainly do not want to deter that; town needs this energy. BUT.. you are almost sounding "paranoid" - I know this, because after my last game, many assumed I was "paranoid". I think we both want the same thing, a town environment where people can voice their opinion and join together for the scum hunt. When you say "it seems fair since people like you are jumping in to defend him pretty fast"; that alienates participants from wanting to contribute. You are actually creating an environment scum can thrive in with that attitude - even though I doubt that is your intention. I ask that you please think about the above. This is the first alignment-indicative post Mocsta made in NMM XXXV, the game he was mafia. What do you notice here? On February 06 2013 15:49 Mocsta wrote: Oats you have an uncanny ability to read a wall of text and focus on one word in that paragraph. You sound like a whiny chick to me, who hears one word she doesnt like, and zones off to everything else. I AM NOT SETUP SPECULATING. The fuckn setup is 9 town, 4 mafia. I am saying we need to make scum work hard to become read as town, I am saying good play Day1 is to emphasise quality posts, and avoid being a lurker I am saying, bad play Day1, is going to make nominations for scum in Day2 much fuckn easier. He's making the same sort of argument about Oats this game that he did about Sn0 in the other game, that their play isn't "optimal" and they are "helping mafia". It's a fabricated read, in my eyes, and a fabricated contribution to say such things. It doesn't matter how a player is playing versus how you think the ideal town player SHOULD play, it matters if that player is playing in a way you know mafia would play. On January 12 2013 22:38 Mocsta wrote: Well im going to bed anyways.. will check in the thread in the morning, and will then be away for at least 6 hrs. *sigh* Please generate some discussions USA shift ! There are still plenty of players who have not even posted yet. zebezt, trust me.. I know the feeling to want some discussion happening, but, as town we don't want to create spam. Unfortunately now its just a waiting game for some activity. [Unless 24hrs has expired.. thats my personal deadline for lurker calling] On February 06 2013 17:10 Mocsta wrote: Oats, Stop getting over-defensive. Now you have to spell out actions. If you couldnt tell my post was a joke, you have problems. And your comment regarding my intentions is stupid. You admit yourself it is "optimal play'.. well no shit, why you think I am striving for that. Im not trying to re-invent the wheel. Again you are flinging shit at an active participant, and for what purpose? Still, no one is contributing; and the one guy who does, you tell him to "fuck off" whether joke or not. Lay off the juice and give others a chance to input into the thread. Those two posts showcase a trait I see in Mafia Mocsta's play, a preoccupation with "contribution" and "lurking" from other players. Aside from the meta similarity here, the mafia trait is that he's doing exactly what he thinks people give out town reads for, and indeed what some of you have given him a town read for this game, simply post. He calls out "lurkers" to appear to contribute and care about the town atmosphere, something I readily see as a common trait in his mafia game and this one. On January 13 2013 07:14 Mocsta wrote: Wow. Thats it over the night shift. Oats u sound like sno_man. perhaps the aggresion u 2 have shown is why there is a lack of discussion. I think u should read what i posted to him. My questions are ice breakers and i have not a genuine comment from to stimulate town conversation. In fact. You are deterring conversation. @oatsmaster Why should i NOT treat is the outcome of your agressive posts [stopping fluid and positive town conversation] as scummy motivations On February 06 2013 16:34 Mocsta wrote: VE, you posted you would prefer nomination discussion to be held post Day 2 Dawn - when scum lynch candidates are released. My motive for the quote was along the lines of: the candidates are going to be chosen based on play Day 1. Yes that statement is obvious, hoever what I am trying to highlight is that effort needs to be made to make the decision for scum difficult. I listed 4 scenarios scum can take; we can't control that decision. What we can CONTROL is the viability of one of those options - to me, this is of benefit to town as it reduces WIFOM choices. I thought my message(s) were clear cut, but, perhaps I am not communicating myself effectively. If not, please let me know. Again, two similar posts in rationale from NMM XXXV and this game. In both posts, he wants to paint what he's doing as "pro-town" by, again, promoting a positive discussion-based atmosphere. He's concerned with how people perceive what he's doing, and wants to control the discussion on the matter. It's mafia mentality, plenty of people, Marv included, attempt to play "pro-town" when mafia. Mcosta, when mafia, is obsessed with the concept, just like he is in this game. I highly doubt Mocsta is town. Who is his scum read so far? All I see in his filter is a bunch of arguing with Oats, and then arriving at the conclusion that he's town/null/whatever. It doesn't look to me like he's hunting mafia, it looks like to me that he's just trying to look town. In this post, yamato essential states that Mocsta was fake contributing day 1, just calling out people for contribution and lurking, with tone similar to his scum meta. Also, he has a problem with Mocsta caring about his own appearance. However, why did yamato switch his read? + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2013 12:54 yamato77 wrote: I'm starting to come around to the idea of town Mocsta, actually. I believe he has a scum read on me, wrong or not. I'm not going to pick apart his case on me, because honestly it's too time consuming to do so, but rather, I'll say this: Reread what you've quoted with the idea that I'm town in your head, and you'll see what I've been doing this game. It does no good for you, as town, to continue to pursue me. With that, I'd be behind a JX lynch. His one post is a "case" and vote on Mocsta. He was a QT spammer in our game together, and was far more active there than the thread, as opposed to his "carefree" town games like LIX. I'd be behind his lynch. Palmar should also be on people's minds. No, you don't want to lynch Palmar D1 if he's town, but you don't exactly want him staying alive until tomorrow if mafia, either, so if he refuses to do anything for the rest of today I would say he should almost certainly be our lynch. A weak ass joke-vote on Prplhz is not meaningful contribution. I don't like a Djodref lynch at the moment, but I need to reassess his posting from a more objective standpoint. I was giving him too much credit for his Mocsta read before. Still, I think he is perhaps not the best choice in front of people like JX/Palmar, so he's a backburner for me. I don't know what's going on between VE/Snarfs, but I don't think people are cool with lynching VE so Snarfs needs some better contributions than a "case" on VE that I don't find to be good. He realizes, "hey, mocsta has a scumread". The lack of mocsta's scumreads was a major basis of yamato's scum read on mocsta. Why wouldn't yamato switch his read upon realizing a major reason for mocsta being scum was wrong? 2) Being stubborn about a JX lynch d1 By the end of day1, yamato was stubborn on JX. However, Jay totally disregards the fact that yamato had commented with cases on yamato, phagga, and prplhz. Yamato had shown that he was actively trying to figure out the game, and had settled on JX for the lynch. 3) The case on snarfs He pretty much calls yamato's case on snarfs a pure lurker lynch. Yet he totally disregards what Yamato said, which imo was decent analysis of the situation Here are yamato's words on the snarfs vote: "Assume that Sloosh and Mocsta are town. With Palmar's green flip, that means that I was wrong and mafia decided to make the lynch a choice between three town players. They don't care who dies, really, because any of the three is good for them. So mafia are more inclined to not care at all what happens yesterday. They lurk, slap their vote somewhere, and do nothing relevant to the game because there is zero chance of them getting lynched and they have no reason to push a mafia agenda. So who fits this bill from yesterday? Snarfs, jay, and djo. Djo is the question mark of the three, because he simply didn't post at all. The other two, however, had very similar days and patterns of activity. They both slapped their vote on someone early, and then basically AFK'd. Right now, I think Snarfs is the best lynch because of this behavior and his similar behavior around the lynch day 1 where he didn't vote JX but rather put Hus vote on VE and used his 'case' as an excuse to not comment on the actual lynch. He should die today." This is in no way a pure lurker lynch suggestion. It's a vote based on the fact that someone didn't care about the lynch, which is usually a scumtell. 4) The timing of jay's case on yamato. Look at the timestamp of jay's case. Now look at the timestamp of when yamato voted snarfs. On February 11 2013 12:45 yamato77 wrote: One heuristic that I find important to mention about the behavior of people around yesterday's lynch is simple activity. Assume that Sloosh and Mocsta are town. With Palmar's green flip, that means that I was wrong and mafia decided to make the lynch a choice between three town players. They don't care who dies, really, because any of the three is good for them. So mafia are more inclined to not care at all what happens yesterday. They lurk, slap their vote somewhere, and do nothing relevant to the game because there is zero chance of them getting lynched and they have no reason to push a mafia agenda. So who fits this bill from yesterday? Snarfs, jay, and djo. Djo is the question mark of the three, because he simply didn't post at all. The other two, however, had very similar days and patterns of activity. They both slapped their vote on someone early, and then basically AFK'd. Right now, I think Snarfs is the best lynch because of this behavior and his similar behavior around the lynch day 1 where he didn't vote JX but rather put Hus vote on VE and used his 'case' as an excuse to not comment on the actual lynch. He should die today. ##Vote Snarfs As for other reads, obviously I think jay is an acceptable alternative lynch candidate. I defended him early day 1 but since then he's done very little, which is more in line with how I view his scum meta. When he's town he at least cares enough to post his thoughts, but this game he's not even doing that anymore and is probably mafia for it. Phagga is scummy, as others have outlined. I don't see him as red as I do snarfs or jay, but he's on my radar. If I was making a hypothetical scum team, I'd say the fourth might be Oats. In the past day his activity has dropped off a cliff and I don't know what his reads in the game are anymore. He seems to be sticking to his guns from day 1 but has no new information to support his reads and hasn't been very active in the game. For town reads, Mocsta and Sloosh look really town to me, mostly from their play while under the gun. I'm more confident on Mocsta than Sloosh, but I would defend either one's towniness. VE and prplhz are also both town to me, despite other player's suspicions of them. If I need to defend them today, I will, because neither show scum traits to me at all. Cheesecake, you asked for my read on you. You lean town to me, but you're real blendy and not at all confrontational like I think town CC is. I suppose you haven't been accused seriously yet, but you also aren't going out of your way to pressure your reads like I think town CC usually does. You're more null than I expected at this point in the game. If you guys think I'm mafia for serious, come at me, but neither case from yesterday is at all good. I've been the towniest yamato of all time. Bring the cases on. 17 minutes after yamato votes snarfs, Jay magically has a case on him, based on palmar's reads and jay's bad/twisted reasoning. That, my friends, is scummy. Now, for Jay's vote on VE. Snarfs had pushed VE hard since the beginning of the game, and, not only did jay join the wagon, jay also freaked out when snarfs was getting lynched. But, the main problem was the timing of his voteswitch. After oats unvoted yamato, and yamato's lynch was losing steam, jay did not keep pushing yamato. Instead, Jay suddenly decides, "oh, i'll just join the VE wagon that suddenly popped up". What was his reasoning for VE being scum? On February 13 2013 06:58 jaybrundage wrote: Yea I love how divided the votes are It will make it so much easier to see scum movements later in the day. And actually the thing I wanted to talk to you about was changing the vote to VE today. But you did it earlier then I would of liked. I wanted to get more a read of VE and scum friends on if they would of killed Yamato instead of Snarfs instead. ##UnVote ##Vote VisceraEyes I looked thru the 3 pages before the VE vote, and guess what? Jay never made a case on VE, yet he saw him as "very likely scum". That's odd and scummy as shit, especially considering snarfs was scum and had pushed VE all game long. Suddenly, when snarfs is under heavy pressure, jay sees it fitting to vote yamato, who he made a big case on, and then unvote yamato for VE, whom he never made a case on. I have more i need to add in there. These are the clear reads I got from the day3 analysis | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
| ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 16 2013 14:34 jaybrundage wrote: I think Sloosh is town. Mocsta flipping should make that clear. Scum nominated three towneis day one. I wish everyone else caught on this fact sooner. And didn't lynch Mocsta. This is why i preferred killing CC yesterday Because he wasn't in that initial group. I think phagga has a good chance to flip red. Also I think Debears is a candidate for a lynch as well. Why would you want to kill someone who correctly identified and pushed a scum lynch (CC) over someone who was completely wrong (Mocsta) if you saw both as town? | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 16 2013 15:09 jaybrundage wrote: First how long does it take to write a case. It takes longer then 17 minutes my friend. Your accusation's have no base. Because we have to lynch someone and I have a better town read on Mocsta. He has played way townier then CC most of the game. I also gave my reasons before. Go read. Yes cuz when you go: "hey palmar said this guy is scum, let me write 3 small paragraphs", it takes you longer than 17 minutes. You don't get a fucking strong town read when someone fucking hammers a scum hard and is 70% responsible for that scum's lynch, as opposed to a guy who opposed his lynch through day 1 and day 3? | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
| ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
| ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 17 2013 00:44 Oatsmaster wrote: Actually, ##Unvote ##Vote: Debears What do you have to say about Jay pushing VE incredibly hard? He pushed VE hard with no case written on VE at all by himself. He just suddenly decided "hey, VE is totes scum". You don't find that weird after he wrote about yamato? + Show Spoiler + On February 11 2013 13:02 jaybrundage wrote: YAMATO Cause Palmar said so WELP HERE WE GO Well first of all there's this Lets start from the top Yamato wants to lynch Mocsta as quite a bit of people viewed Mocsta scummy at first Oats naming one and i know he had about 3-4 votes at one point in time. However when Mocsta actually writes up his defense Yamato completly back tracks. And chalks it up to Mocsta misunderstanding his case? Yamato thought Mocsta was scum it wouldn't be misunderstanding it would be him twisting words. And then Yamato just flips it around and calls Mocsta town later. Ok So here Yamato comes full circle in Mocsta from hes scum to idk to yea hes town. And get this then Yamato calls JX scummy for calling Mocsta scum when a short while ago. Yamato was going after Mocsta with a pick axe. Also note his need as scum to want to kill Palmar ASAP. Here he just becomes unreasonable demanding a JX lynch while not even listening to alternatives The sole reason he wants to go after people now is lack of activity. He legit with all the information we have got from two lynches is gonna do a lurker lynch is he fucking srs? Yes lurking can be a tell of scum. But to use it alone as who you decide to kill at this point in the game is just a easy scum route. Also look at the people that he's defending VE prlhz the exact people that Palmar and Sloosh are going for. Also keep in mind his one track mind to want ot lynch Palmar. We have SCUM Yamato here. ##Vote Yamato Then, there's jay's refusal to lynch snarfs. + Show Spoiler + On February 12 2013 13:23 jaybrundage wrote: 1 Hey last game I was scum I used attacks on Bugs to rile him up and make him not think clearly. Nicely done. 2 Stop using emotional bullshit to try to pull out a response from people. Also you refuse to find a second candidate. WTF is this? If your town then start looking. Snarfs is not gonna be killed today. I have said this like three times and you refuse to answer. WHAT'S YOUR SECOND SCUM READ What was his reasoning for not lynching snarfs??????? + Show Spoiler + On February 12 2013 11:56 jaybrundage wrote: Snarfs: I thought snarfs was scummy for a bit. But with my change of read on VE and the way snarf was pushing VE since day 1 I have come around on him also the fact that the people who are voting him are in my scum team makes it so I think that he's a mislynch that scum is pushing. My last comment on him was to many scum want him dead and its true alot of scummy people are pushing him as a mislynch. Yamato is still a scum candidate. I'll give more thoughts on him later. I want to see his posting and what he plans to do because so far its been jack shit. The reasons you stated are the exact reasons they are probably scum. CC has sat under the radar. He hasn't been pressured and he hasn't done anything. His flipflop on yamato is also scummy as hell. Oats as well he started off decent too many people gave him a pass on his conversation with you. Since then he hasn't contributed to the town at all. You like that logical fallacy thing eh. Well ill use it against you.  not. That guy Palmar... Ill give ya a secret He's an expert Also just so you note. Oats was on Palmars town list. I do take his reads seriously but I don't mind branching out either. Was his town read on snarfs based on analysis of snarfs play? Hell no. It was an association, based on no flips, based on a couple votes on snarfs. WHY DID JAY NOT MENTION ANALYSIS OF SNARFS PLAY IF HE HAS SUCH A STRONG READ ON HIM If jay was town, he would defend snarfs based on analysis of snarfs play, not some "oh, i think these guys are scum and voting this other guys even though i have no analysis on the guy they are voting". Oats, Ctrl F jay's filter for snarfs. You will see what i mean | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 17 2013 00:52 Oatsmaster wrote: Sounds townie to me actually, BECAUSE as scum, I was really worried about stuff like that. So I didnt do that. As Town, who cares who you vote if you really think that the guy is scum? If he was so sure VE was scum, why did he not provide analysis and reasoning that would persuade others that VE is scum? Why did he have to resort to screaming "OMG VE is scum!!!!!" On February 13 2013 07:28 jaybrundage wrote: I think VE is scum for sure. We need you on this lynch to kill him. He has been soft defended by numerous players. Because hes scum and they don't want him to die. I don't think Snarfs is scum Because currently the people on him are on my scum list. And the people on VE are on my town list. Also VE has done alot of scummy things. Phagga you wrote a big case on VE before. I'm surprised that you have any doubts about VE On February 13 2013 08:05 jaybrundage wrote: Holy fuck Sloosh why did you unvote VE now snarfs is gonna get lynched no matter what unless phagga comes back WTF THE FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKkkk On February 13 2013 08:06 jaybrundage wrote: Sloosh what the hell where you doing by trying to unvote VE vote Snarfs and unvoting snarfs. Now snarfs has reached the majority and with out Djo we dont have anyway get majority back. YOu fucked this hard On February 13 2013 08:07 jaybrundage wrote: Yamato come over to lynch VE. If you are actually town and we misread you we need to kill VE Where is the logical, persuasive reasoning that a townie would provide to persuade people to his lynch? There wasn't any. There was just begging for people to not lynch scum (snarfs) and lynch VE instead | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 17 2013 01:55 Oatsmaster wrote: Seems good reasoning to me actually. Do you have a meta read on Jay? Or just generally town play? Also, you were in Dessert? Where he bussed all game long hard and fast? I think :/ Still think he is town. No i don't have a meta read. I think I've played with jay once, and i don't remember his play even if we did. I'm not metaing someone I don't know well. I wasn't in dessert. I haven't looked at the game (other than the flavor <3 cheesecake) | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
What do you think about Jay's comments around the Palmar lynch? On February 11 2013 11:00 jaybrundage wrote: Man that Palmar wagon looks scummy as hell On February 11 2013 11:04 BioSC wrote: Day 2! Palmar, the Vanilla Townie, has been lynched! This post will be retconned by GM at a later time. On February 11 2013 11:14 jaybrundage wrote: Im not happy this was a shitty pick for a lynch What does that post accomplish from each perspective by jay? Town - he is 99.999999% sure palmar is town. He wants to spread suspicion on everyone on the palmar wagon (even though not all the palmar wagon can be scum). He's pissed for people voting for a wagon that he was on for most of the day. On February 10 2013 12:36 jaybrundage wrote: @Palmar Eh kinda sucks when you join in a game and your not motivated enough to actually try to play it. Why join in the first place then? If you give your updated reads and tell who you think is scum that would be awesome. Also I believe that your town casue of your posting and sincerity. But if you don't want to actually play then replace out or something. Or we can just lynch you if you have no interest in playing. I think your a very strong townie but you said it your self to play the game of mafia well you need to invest time into it. If you dont wanna do that then i think it might be better to keep Mocsta or SlOosh that have showed that they actually want to play this game. Palmar I will change my vote for you but if you change your mind and decide to play then I will do my best to change the direction of the lynch. The balls in your court. ##Unvote ##Vote Palmar He pissed because he came in with only 30 minutes left til lynch to suddenly argue for palmar On February 11 2013 10:20 jaybrundage wrote: Ok srlys can we get a vote count? Also ##Unvote ##Vote Mocsta While I think we have 3 townies up for lynch. I think it would be dumb to kill the best scum hunter i know. Scum will want to nail Palmar and kill him when they get the chance. But the way i see it we shouldn't let them have that chance. We have the best scum catcher in TL and people are considering lynching him. If he is down to play we should keep him. I suggest we lynch Mocsta or SlOosh I'll be moving my vote on who ever has the better chance to get lynched. (If we could get vote count) What kind of town comes back 30 minutes before lynch, to suddenly switch his vote and then proceed to flame everyone about lynching a townie when he was on that townies wagon for most of the day before the flip? Scum - he knows palmar is town. He helps contribute to the palmar wagon. Then, with 30 minutes left he switches votes to act angry to look townie Bitching about a mislynch is in no way pro-town. Bitching about a mislynch when you do nothing to prevent that mislynch (coming in 30 minutes before and making two posts is not doing anything) is scummy as shit. | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 17 2013 02:21 Oatsmaster wrote: Not really, seems like irritated town. Look, I assume he thought about it and was like, HEY WAIT PALMAR IS PROBABLY TOWN AND WE ARE MISLYNCHING HIM. NOOOO SEE ALL OF YOU SUCK AND ARE PROBABLY SCUM CAUSE YOU JUST MISLYNCHED BEST TOWNIE IN TL MAFIA.!!!! ! Yes, it's possible. Here's my problem with jay day 1 - Votes JX day 2 - votes palmar, then switches to mocsta and bitches about palmars lynch day 3 - hard defends snarfs, votes for VE Is he having that bad of a game and coincidentally doing multiple scummy things, or is he just scum? I'll keep looking | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 17 2013 02:28 Oatsmaster wrote: Oats: Day 1- Votes JX Day 2- Wants to lynch second best townie(Possibly) in the game Day 3- switches votes around until lands on wagon Day 4- Wants to lynch currently (Possibly) best townie in the game So am I scummy? You voted for scum to make the wagon close. That's a hell of a lot better. | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
you voted for scum when the scum was not leading in votes (just to clarify) | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
He was second on the Yamato wagon. However, he seemed to spend his day figuring yamato out. The main thing that gives me town vibes from him is the fact that he was the deciding vote (turned it to 5-4) to push the lynch on Snarf when he voteswitched. The thought through my head - "why would scum suddenly switch off a mislynch that they had pushed all day just to bus their partner?" There are some things in his filter that are scummy, but I believe his voteswitch overrides that and gives me more of a town read on him. The only reason I could see him being scum bussing snarfs is if he (as scum) felt that snarfs was going to get lynched anyways by prp or others anyways with a late voteswitch. This is what i have written on Phagga's voteswitch. Haven't come to a conclusion on sloosh or prp yet. I'll be back on later. Gotta go play some ball | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 17 2013 10:03 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Although this Jay stuff looks tempting as hell, @Debears Stop rolling your face over Jay right now. I think he's pretty lulscum too at this point; but tell me, WHY do you think Phagga is town??? You realize that his voteswitch was actually super scummy right? Sloosh unvotes and looks to be preparing to vote Snarfypoo. That's when Phagga switches over, right in the time between sloosh unvotes and subsequently votes snarfs. "Oh shit, sloosh gonna tip the tides, GG better bus" I suggest you go look at Phagga's play again. That's just shitty analysis of his vote to give him a town vibe. I expect better from you. Phagga best lynch evar atm. ##Vote: Phagga At anyone wanting to lynch Prplhz right now, why would we over Phagga? I'd like to, as VE puts it, powwow a little bit and discuss it. Prplhz play is lackluster and scummy but I think Phagga has a great chance to flip scum. As I said, he could possibly have been scum bussing his partner because he thought prp or someone else woulf switch to snarfs But seriously, how many times have you seen scum be the deciding vote in a bus on their partner? | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 13 2013 07:39 phagga wrote: Dude, I might do the deciding vote here, I just want to be sure it's the right pick. That said, snarfs is a lurker, for whatever reason. VE had stuff in his play that just did not make any sense from a town perspective. Let's lynch VE. ##Vote: VisceraEyes On February 13 2013 07:50 slOosh wrote: VE, please, don't do this again. You know how that ended up. A scum team of Snarfs, phagga, prplhz and Oats makes unbelievable sense. For me to believe that, it means I have to read you town. I'm doing the best I can. It's been a long time since I've rolled town, I missed a huge portion of D1 because of real life and I'm not as confident as I normally am. Like ... I dunno! And I'm dead serious about this. If it gives you ease of mind ##Unvote: VisceraEyes ##Vote: Snarfs ##Unvote: Snarfs On February 13 2013 07:55 phagga wrote: You know what, fuck it. ##unvote: VisceraEyes ##Vote: Snarfs let's lynch the scummy lurker. It appears you are right CC. Phagga did do a case on VE also before his vote on VE On February 12 2013 06:33 phagga wrote: Regarding VE: As some of you might remember I was pressuring VE a bit about his behavior around the palmar vote. I think there is a breakdown in his logic. I originally wrote a post to him asking why he voted the target of his scum read: + Show Spoiler + On February 08 2013 08:08 phagga wrote: VE: regarding your Palmar vote: You voted Palmar saying that it is a scum tell that he does not comment on random lynching. Later on you said palmar does not care, and that is a sign that he is scum. Both this points have been refuted by oats (with the Marv vote) and me (Death note). What's baffling me is that I feel you should have known better than that. You were in LVIII with Marv and Palmar and even answered to the very quote of Marv that oats posted. And even without this, you are long enough active here that i would expect you to know that palmar does these stunts as town sometimes. Therefor I really feel you tried to pull a Risen here and lynch palmar for his inactivity although you should know that he could be town, and could be a an important asset to town later on. So, you vote Palmar because he is scum according to you, and then you switch to Palmars target (prplhz) saying if Palmar (who you think is scum) is going to push prplhz, he will get his will anyway. So you freely succumb to scum? What is this? Oh, I forgot, you will of course still be happy to lynch palmar if someone else wants to, but now you no longer want to push him, and instead push the target of your scumread! How is that a town motivated move? He answered and I followed up: + Show Spoiler + On February 08 2013 08:43 phagga wrote: Of course Palmar is capable of bussing his teammates, but you MUST have been aware at this point that Palmar could have voted a townie. And let's just be clear: this post came after the post I quoted before. So what you are saying is that a) Palmar has a lot of influence, b) Palmar is scum and c) Palmar comes into the thread and busses his teammate immediatly, hence you vote his teammate. That just does not make any sense to me. And I'm not talking about Palmars alignment here (which is a different discussion), I'm solely talking about how you chose to abandon your scum read and instead voted for your scumread's target, and that I don't understand that move. + Show Spoiler + On February 08 2013 08:54 VisceraEyes wrote: He didn't explain anything in that post phagga. He didn't say why he wanted to lynch any of those targets. It barely even qualifies as a bus in that instance because he's not pushing his read and he's barely interested in where his vote goes. And regardless of the second post you quoted, the fact remains that he didn't do shit to actually get prplhz lynched. This is a fact. So you can bitch at me all you want about "voting for my scumread's target", because I know that prplhz was never really a target for Palmar because he's come back since then and hasn't mentioned him again. Not even a "Guys lynch prplhz" like he's wont to do. Nothing. + Show Spoiler + On February 08 2013 09:10 phagga wrote: VE: but the point was that you explicitly wrote that if Palmar would push prplhz, he would get him lynched, and this was part of your reasoning why you voted prplhz. So while it is true that Palmar has not pushed him, you did not have this kind of knowledge when you wrote your post yesterday, and instead claimed that prplhz was a good target because of the very fact that if Palmar pushes him, he will get prplhz lynched. That contradicts your "Palmar is bussing prplhz" theory, since a scum palmar would probably not actively push a lynch on his team mate. Now comes the fun part. His response to my last post was that Palmar "didn't do shit to actually get prplhz lynched." and that he knows "that prplhz was never really a target for Palmar because he's come back since then and hasn't mentioned him again." This is his justification for his vote for prplhz. However, when he actually voted prplhz he wrote that if Palmar pushes his target, he will get him lynched. Also, at that time there was no way for him to know if Palmar would push prplhz or not. And finally, if Palmar was scum (as VE read him), and Palmar would actively push prplhz to get lynched, then prplhz would with a high probability be town. (Scum actively pushing a lynch on his own teammate on D1? Not impossible, but very unlikely). So, to break it down into few simple phrases: VE votes prplhz with the premise that if palmar, who is his scumread, pushes a lynch on prplhz, he will get it through. VE then later says that palmar might be bussing his teammate. That leaves two conclusions for VE's intentions when he voted prp in this post. 1.) VE thought that Palmar is scum and is actively pushing a lynch on his own teammate D1, hence VE votes prplhz. 2.) VE thought that Palmar is scum and has the ability to lynch a town prplhz, and VE is perfectly happy with that. The first one is very unlikely, the second one very scummy. Also note how VE actually writes that Palmars vote on prplhz makes the latter the best lynch candidate. The fact that VE never came up with a more satisfying explanation despite me asking him several times makes it pretty clear to me that his intentions were to hurt town. Riddle me this: If sloosh comes up to any of you townies, and asks if you could talk with him about it, and you have the next 30 minutes freely available. What do you do? I guess you would go read sloosh's case and comment on it. But what does VE do? Notice the time stamps. It would have been easy to shortly look into Sloosh's 2-page filter to find his case and comment on it. Or he could have gone and read my filter and make his own read on me. But VE was doing nothing. How did he even want to discuss anything on me when he did not even know about the facts? This are my 2 points that made me think VE could be scum. Sloosh adds a couple good points himself, I can go with that. Therefor, I think VE is scum. I've seen Cheeses' case on Yamato, and I have to read through it properly. However, not now, cause I'm tired as hell after sacrificing too much sleep for mafia this weekend. I'll take a shower and be back in about 30 minutes, if you have any questions I will answer them then, else/afterwards I'm off to bed. His unexplained change in confidence in his read on VE is troublesome. I don't think it necessarily means scum. But, as you did say, it doesn't mean he is town either from his day 3 vote | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 17 2013 14:43 Oatsmaster wrote: Day 1 LIX. Me and Prp were the lynches. GUESS WHAT? WE WERE BOTH SCUM!!! OH NO YOUR ASSOCIATION TOWN READ IS SHIT. :O What do you mean by I am unreadable and have done insanely stupid things? Explain please :D Were both of you solely going after one another from the very beginning of the game | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 17 2013 14:57 yamato77 wrote: Debears what do you think of my reads, particularly the one on phagga? Also, will you lynch prplhz with me? I want answers to my points for and against prplhz and phagga from you tomorrow when I look at the thread. Prp has been a little too nonchalant today for my liking, but I don't think he is nearly as likely to be scum as jay. As I said in my notes, jay is in the "kill it with fire" category for me. I want jay, the most likely scum, lynched. Phagga and Oats are the two hardest players to read in this game for me. Phagga, I want to say is town because he did move the votes on snarf to 5 to take the lead, yet sloosh was on the fence with momentum turning onto snarfs. So, it's possible that it was a bus.The rest of his play doesn't say "hey i'm town". Oats, meanwhile, was the 4th vote on snarfs to make the voting close. He has a large filter, and I found him town looking after his early debates with Mocsta. For now, I'd go with Phagga as scum and oats town. However, that isn't my main concern as of now, compared to prp and jay. | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 17 2013 14:58 Oatsmaster wrote: Well yamato, dick play isnt good play. Anyway, answer the OTHER QUESTION. I have a null read on VE and slOosh. The thing is, they should be doing so much more than they are currently doing. They have no fear of nightkills so WHY arent they being ultra mega useful to town? Two options 1) time (ie palmar) 2) laziness 3) Scum I find 1 and/or 2 the most likely explanations, based on the day 3 lynch | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
| ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 18 2013 00:29 phagga wrote: Because it's a topic that is still being discussed, and several people seem to base their read on me at least partially on that vote switch. I wanted to lay out my thoughts and feelings and try to show my point of view. Hopefully I can convince other townies that I am not scum to prevent a mislynch on me. What is your read on jay? Why vote prp over jay? I'd say both of them are quite more likely to flip scum than you, especially jay. | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 18 2013 01:41 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Dibbers, how can you even say prphlz has a better chance to flip red than Phagga? Phaggas cases have been pretty safe and somewhat sheepish at best, and he's been soup defendy most of the game. Prp has been lurky, yes, and show some disinterest in the game, ya, but are those really telltale scum signs? I think he has a good chance to flip red but not moreso than Phagga, and especially Jay. Phagga much scummier than prp. i have some gripes with prp but you should consider lynching Phagga today, Dibbers. He explained his position but im still on the fence about his reasoning. Prp has been very nonchalant and uninvolved in a game with no nks. He didn't vote for a scum lynch. His activity and reasoning this day has been almost nonexistent. Phaggas posting today did not say to me "I'm scum. Lynch me please." Honestly, I don't even care that much to a lynch on either in comparisom to a jay lynch | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
| ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
What's the case you have against phagga? Despite his vote on snarfs, some who I have town reads on (you and CC) have him painted as scum, yet I don't see him as super scum. I've seen some posts that look town motivated, but I'd like to see the details of your analysis | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 20 2013 00:34 yamato77 wrote: Sloosh, why is that plan so scummy? Wtf. We keep you alive until endgame, because why? I say we kill you today and mod confirm what Mafia has been doing with the nominations. Jay pushing mafia agenda, so him suggesting not lynching you is hilariously bad. Just makes me want to lynch you more. I'd rather scumhunt like normal. On that note, I'm going to read VE/Phagga and see if I can figure the both of them out. Yamato.........please give me good reasoning why sloosh is mafia before you go on a thought process like this. A town or a scum player can easily say that. Also, say that jay is scum and sloosh is town, and jay knows he has a good chance to lynched tomorrow. What's an easy way to cast suspicion on a good town player? Buddy up with them | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
The fuck? If you looks like scum, sounds like scum, and votes like scum, it is scum. Jay is scum. If you think not, THEN FUCKING COUNTER MY PREVIOUS CASES AGAINST HIM. | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
##Vote Yamato I want to keep sloosh around since he's a good player, and I consider CC a better player than yamato | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 20 2013 10:24 jaybrundage wrote: But what if its my town meta too look like scum. But regardless your scum this game. So no use talking about it. Yes because that totally clears anyone in mafia. Now you are just reaching for defenses because you know you are caught | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 20 2013 12:08 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Debears, i dont think he is scum right now. what say you to phagga scum? Jay isnt caught. hes just... in a bind. lol. There is no way in hell im lynching phagga over jay | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
| ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 20 2013 13:03 Oatsmaster wrote: Why Phagga is town He seems intent on finding scum, Especially this post These are pretty good questions and I dont think they are from the same alignment. Also, as scum, he could try and push the Palmar mislynch, VE is behind it too and me at this point I think, or I just switched off. I dont see why he would do this as scum basically. But as town, you would want to prevent a good player mislynch especially when you think that player is town. I really like this post by phagga, it attacks yamato, and reinforces his earlier read. It doesnt look speculative like scum would just try to poke and prod, or sit on the scum read. His reads also change and I like that. Because as scum, you are afraid of changing your mind but as town, who cares. I like how he took the effort to find the post instead of discrediting me or just sheeping along. IMO, this is the biggest towntell in his filter :D Overall, I think that phagga is town. CC, saying that jay is scum JUST cause you cant find scumbuddies is INCREDIBLY WRONG. You have no content saying that he isnt scum just, HERP DERP he doesnt look linked to anyone. Also the rest of your scum reads are cause they gave Phagga town reads. Phagga HASENT EVEN FLIPPED YET. Namely that part | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 20 2013 17:34 slOosh wrote: Ok it's really late and time for bed. VE lynch and phagga lynch is what I'm looking at. debears is by process of elimination. Things might get busy so in case I can't later: ##Vote yamato. CC let me know how you feel about the situation. I'm considering voting myself today if it means helping Oats come aboard and assuming you guys can agree that jay isn't the lynch for tomorrow. Seriously, please don't lynch jay tomorrow. I want to take a hammer filled with your stupidity and beat you over the head with it. You haven't refuted any of my cases on jay, you haven't mentioned them, yet you totally disregard them and declare him town. How in the hell do you come to this conclusion? On February 20 2013 16:56 slOosh wrote: Also if you haven't done so, really try to do a reread with the flip knowledge. I think much of our confusion stems from the natural thought that D2 wasn't split between 2 scum (Snarfs and VE). Things I caught were - jay, phagga and CC build yamato case - yamato serious lynch possibility. what are VE / phagga / Snarfs doing? - p 58~61: who cares about the lynch, who doesn't? - phagga acknowledges Snarfs case, keeps on yamato, and then soon after drops it when no one else is on it - phagga unvotes, but not to move it!!! There is unusual delay in his followup vote. I really think jay is town at this point. He has been consistently involved in trying to figure out scum. He was one of the first to support the VE lynch and his posts surrounding the deadline felt really genuine (like the one where he was really upset I moved my vote). The biggest thing is that he came to the same conclusion of a scum team that I did before I clearly said anything. It shows real consistency. I highly don't recommend lynching him. This doesn't cut it. You can't just ignore everything that has been brought up about him. Also, how do my actions indicate I am scum? Do you believe like jay (who is scum btw), that I am scummy solely because of Djo? | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 20 2013 19:07 Oatsmaster wrote: So debears. Real quick 2 scum reads 2-3 line reasoning. GOGOGO Jay, of course, my reasoning in my filter You, Oats are second on my list. I found you town after your debate with Mocsta, but since then your play hasn't been such. stuff like this On February 20 2013 15:42 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok everybody. Top 2 scum reads. And quick summary on why they are scum If you dont do it, its a scum tell. For me Jay: Scum. He doesnt care who is scum, his sheeping off Palmar to make a horrible case on yamato which doesnt say why he is scum at all. Then he doesnt care to follow up at all. he seems too proud that his town meta is sheeping people and he is self deprecating. Djo/Debears Scum Djo did the really really bad RNG idea for lynching and thats pretty much ALL his contribution before he replaced. Debears also seems to not really be involved in the game, like he has no convictions in his reads. 1) You are using the play of a player who trolled with a RnG lynch, then afked after being worthless, when his scum meta is very active and invovled (Djo that is), as a scumread on me 2) "no convictions in his reads". That is a straight up lie + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2013 01:53 debears wrote: He pushed VE hard with no case written on VE at all by himself. He just suddenly decided "hey, VE is totes scum". You don't find that weird after he wrote about yamato? + Show Spoiler + On February 11 2013 13:02 jaybrundage wrote: YAMATO Cause Palmar said so WELP HERE WE GO Well first of all there's this Lets start from the top Yamato wants to lynch Mocsta as quite a bit of people viewed Mocsta scummy at first Oats naming one and i know he had about 3-4 votes at one point in time. However when Mocsta actually writes up his defense Yamato completly back tracks. And chalks it up to Mocsta misunderstanding his case? Yamato thought Mocsta was scum it wouldn't be misunderstanding it would be him twisting words. And then Yamato just flips it around and calls Mocsta town later. Ok So here Yamato comes full circle in Mocsta from hes scum to idk to yea hes town. And get this then Yamato calls JX scummy for calling Mocsta scum when a short while ago. Yamato was going after Mocsta with a pick axe. Also note his need as scum to want to kill Palmar ASAP. Here he just becomes unreasonable demanding a JX lynch while not even listening to alternatives The sole reason he wants to go after people now is lack of activity. He legit with all the information we have got from two lynches is gonna do a lurker lynch is he fucking srs? Yes lurking can be a tell of scum. But to use it alone as who you decide to kill at this point in the game is just a easy scum route. Also look at the people that he's defending VE prlhz the exact people that Palmar and Sloosh are going for. Also keep in mind his one track mind to want ot lynch Palmar. We have SCUM Yamato here. ##Vote Yamato Then, there's jay's refusal to lynch snarfs. + Show Spoiler + On February 12 2013 13:23 jaybrundage wrote: 1 Hey last game I was scum I used attacks on Bugs to rile him up and make him not think clearly. Nicely done. 2 Stop using emotional bullshit to try to pull out a response from people. Also you refuse to find a second candidate. WTF is this? If your town then start looking. Snarfs is not gonna be killed today. I have said this like three times and you refuse to answer. WHAT'S YOUR SECOND SCUM READ What was his reasoning for not lynching snarfs??????? + Show Spoiler + On February 12 2013 11:56 jaybrundage wrote: Snarfs: I thought snarfs was scummy for a bit. But with my change of read on VE and the way snarf was pushing VE since day 1 I have come around on him also the fact that the people who are voting him are in my scum team makes it so I think that he's a mislynch that scum is pushing. My last comment on him was to many scum want him dead and its true alot of scummy people are pushing him as a mislynch. Yamato is still a scum candidate. I'll give more thoughts on him later. I want to see his posting and what he plans to do because so far its been jack shit. The reasons you stated are the exact reasons they are probably scum. CC has sat under the radar. He hasn't been pressured and he hasn't done anything. His flipflop on yamato is also scummy as hell. Oats as well he started off decent too many people gave him a pass on his conversation with you. Since then he hasn't contributed to the town at all. You like that logical fallacy thing eh. Well ill use it against you. not. That guy Palmar... Ill give ya a secret He's an expert Also just so you note. Oats was on Palmars town list. I do take his reads seriously but I don't mind branching out either. Was his town read on snarfs based on analysis of snarfs play? Hell no. It was an association, based on no flips, based on a couple votes on snarfs. WHY DID JAY NOT MENTION ANALYSIS OF SNARFS PLAY IF HE HAS SUCH A STRONG READ ON HIM If jay was town, he would defend snarfs based on analysis of snarfs play, not some "oh, i think these guys are scum and voting this other guys even though i have no analysis on the guy they are voting". Oats, Ctrl F jay's filter for snarfs. You will see what i mean On February 17 2013 02:01 debears wrote: If he was so sure VE was scum, why did he not provide analysis and reasoning that would persuade others that VE is scum? Why did he have to resort to screaming "OMG VE is scum!!!!!" Where is the logical, persuasive reasoning that a townie would provide to persuade people to his lynch? There wasn't any. There was just begging for people to not lynch scum (snarfs) and lynch VE instead On February 17 2013 02:16 debears wrote: Oats I have one more thing for you. I would also like input from others (not named Jay) on what I've wrote. What do you think about Jay's comments around the Palmar lynch? What does that post accomplish from each perspective by jay? Town - he is 99.999999% sure palmar is town. He wants to spread suspicion on everyone on the palmar wagon (even though not all the palmar wagon can be scum). He's pissed for people voting for a wagon that he was on for most of the day. He pissed because he came in with only 30 minutes left til lynch to suddenly argue for palmar What kind of town comes back 30 minutes before lynch, to suddenly switch his vote and then proceed to flame everyone about lynching a townie when he was on that townies wagon for most of the day before the flip? Scum - he knows palmar is town. He helps contribute to the palmar wagon. Then, with 30 minutes left he switches votes to act angry to look townie Bitching about a mislynch is in no way pro-town. Bitching about a mislynch when you do nothing to prevent that mislynch (coming in 30 minutes before and making two posts is not doing anything) is scummy as shit. On February 16 2013 15:00 debears wrote: Debears's fantastic snarf lynch vote analysis!!!!!!! Votecounts: + Show Spoiler + On February 12 2013 14:04 jaybrundage wrote: Vote Count Snarfs: Mr.Cheesecake, Yamato77, Yamato77: JayBrundage, Phagga, Mocsta, VisceraEyes: Snarfs, SlOosh Mr.Cheesecake: Prplhz, Prplhz: VisceraEyes, Oatsmaster Have not voted: Djodref, Oats did you vote CC today? On February 13 2013 07:08 jaybrundage wrote: Everybody has to die sometime Day 3 Vote Count: Snarfs (4): Mr. Cheesecake, yamato77, Yamato77 (1): VisceraEyes (4): Snarfs, SlOosh, Mocsta, Jaybrundage Mr. Cheesecake (1): prplhz prplhz (0): Snarfs is currently set to be lynched. Djodref has not voted. You have ~4h hours left until the end of the day. Phagga come to lynch VE with us scum is really trying to make this not happen. On February 13 2013 08:04 jaybrundage wrote: Day 3 Vote Count: Snarfs (5): Mr. Cheesecake, yamato77, Yamato77 (0): VisceraEyes (4): Snarfs, Mr. Cheesecake (1): prplhz (0): Snarfs is currently set to be lynched. Djodref has not voted. SlOosh Has not voted You have ~3h hours left until the end of the day. On February 13 2013 08:11 BioSC wrote: Day 3 Vote Count: Snarfs (6): Mr. Cheesecake, yamato77, Yamato77 (0): VisceraEyes (4): Snarfs, Mr. Cheesecake (0): prplhz (0): Snarfs is currently set to be lynched. Djodref has not voted. You have less than 3 hours left until the end of the day. On February 13 2013 10:40 BioSC wrote: Day 3 Vote Count: Snarfs (7): Mr. Cheesecake, yamato77, Yamato77 (0): VisceraEyes (3): Snarfs, Mr. Cheesecake (0): prplhz (0): Snarfs is currently set to be lynched. Djodref has not voted. You have 20 minutes left until the end of the day. CheeseCake - Town Suspicious of snarfs since d1. Early vote on snarf - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17766828 Leaves open possibility of switching to Yamato ------> Never switches to Yamato Pushes the snarf lynch hard when VE lynch gains traction. Snarf was scum, CC risked everything, saying "lynch me if snarf is town". Yamato - Town The second vote on snarfs. Vote stayed on snarfs. Pushed snarfs very hard all day. VE - slight town VE switched onto Snarfs when he himself was at threat of getting lynched. So VE's vote is a null tell to me. However, Snarfs had been pushing VE since day 1. VE was snarf's only real scumread that he pursued aggressively. This tells me the VE is most likely town, unless they (if both town), planned on a double bus at the very beginning of the game. Also, his counter wagon gained a lot of traction fast over a snarfs wagon that had a lot more scum oriented content behind it. JayBrund - Scum+ Show Spoiler + Jay pushed Yamato at first, and then VE. The yamato push isn't scummy solely because he pushed yamato, it is also scummy because of the timing and the reasoning behind his push on yamato. Context: Here is jay's post on yamato + Show Spoiler + On February 11 2013 13:02 jaybrundage wrote: YAMATO Cause Palmar said so WELP HERE WE GO Well first of all there's this Lets start from the top Yamato wants to lynch Mocsta as quite a bit of people viewed Mocsta scummy at first Oats naming one and i know he had about 3-4 votes at one point in time. However when Mocsta actually writes up his defense Yamato completly back tracks. And chalks it up to Mocsta misunderstanding his case? Yamato thought Mocsta was scum it wouldn't be misunderstanding it would be him twisting words. And then Yamato just flips it around and calls Mocsta town later. Ok So here Yamato comes full circle in Mocsta from hes scum to idk to yea hes town. And get this then Yamato calls JX scummy for calling Mocsta scum when a short while ago. Yamato was going after Mocsta with a pick axe. Also note his need as scum to want to kill Palmar ASAP. Here he just becomes unreasonable demanding a JX lynch while not even listening to alternatives The sole reason he wants to go after people now is lack of activity. He legit with all the information we have got from two lynches is gonna do a lurker lynch is he fucking srs? Yes lurking can be a tell of scum. But to use it alone as who you decide to kill at this point in the game is just a easy scum route. Also look at the people that he's defending VE prlhz the exact people that Palmar and Sloosh are going for. Also keep in mind his one track mind to want ot lynch Palmar. We have SCUM Yamato here. ##Vote Yamato Note that half his case is using palmar's words to justify his case, which isn't reasonable. Palmar himself said that his reads likely weren't great this game due to the fact he was behind on the game. Now, for the three or so parts where Jay actually writes something of his own. 1) Yamato's flip on Mocsta. Let's examine why Yamato flipped on his read on Mocsta Yamato's original case: + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2013 03:05 yamato77 wrote: QUOTE]On January 20 2013 22:18 Mocsta wrote: It doesnt matter if i think yamato is a candidate with a chance to win, I represent one vote out of 22. I thought yamato campaigned passive-aggressively; just like Toad. Its an approach I am oft in favour of when attempting to look squeaky-clean whilst attempting to manipulate. Having said that, its not pertinent to determining alignment. At least not with the information we have currently. This is from page 1 of Mocsta's filter in LIX, the game he was town. He gives out, in the part I bolded, his rationale in thinking Toad and I might be mafia, but in doing so reveals his own thought process when mafia, that being passive-aggressive is a way to play mafia. On January 12 2013 16:38 Mocsta wrote: @Sn0_Man I appreciate the sense of energy you are giving back to this thread, and I certainly do not want to deter that; town needs this energy. BUT.. you are almost sounding "paranoid" - I know this, because after my last game, many assumed I was "paranoid". I think we both want the same thing, a town environment where people can voice their opinion and join together for the scum hunt. When you say "it seems fair since people like you are jumping in to defend him pretty fast"; that alienates participants from wanting to contribute. You are actually creating an environment scum can thrive in with that attitude - even though I doubt that is your intention. I ask that you please think about the above. This is the first alignment-indicative post Mocsta made in NMM XXXV, the game he was mafia. What do you notice here? On February 06 2013 15:49 Mocsta wrote: Oats you have an uncanny ability to read a wall of text and focus on one word in that paragraph. You sound like a whiny chick to me, who hears one word she doesnt like, and zones off to everything else. I AM NOT SETUP SPECULATING. The fuckn setup is 9 town, 4 mafia. I am saying we need to make scum work hard to become read as town, I am saying good play Day1 is to emphasise quality posts, and avoid being a lurker I am saying, bad play Day1, is going to make nominations for scum in Day2 much fuckn easier. He's making the same sort of argument about Oats this game that he did about Sn0 in the other game, that their play isn't "optimal" and they are "helping mafia". It's a fabricated read, in my eyes, and a fabricated contribution to say such things. It doesn't matter how a player is playing versus how you think the ideal town player SHOULD play, it matters if that player is playing in a way you know mafia would play. On January 12 2013 22:38 Mocsta wrote: Well im going to bed anyways.. will check in the thread in the morning, and will then be away for at least 6 hrs. *sigh* Please generate some discussions USA shift ! There are still plenty of players who have not even posted yet. zebezt, trust me.. I know the feeling to want some discussion happening, but, as town we don't want to create spam. Unfortunately now its just a waiting game for some activity. [Unless 24hrs has expired.. thats my personal deadline for lurker calling] On February 06 2013 17:10 Mocsta wrote: Oats, Stop getting over-defensive. Now you have to spell out actions. If you couldnt tell my post was a joke, you have problems. And your comment regarding my intentions is stupid. You admit yourself it is "optimal play'.. well no shit, why you think I am striving for that. Im not trying to re-invent the wheel. Again you are flinging shit at an active participant, and for what purpose? Still, no one is contributing; and the one guy who does, you tell him to "fuck off" whether joke or not. Lay off the juice and give others a chance to input into the thread. Those two posts showcase a trait I see in Mafia Mocsta's play, a preoccupation with "contribution" and "lurking" from other players. Aside from the meta similarity here, the mafia trait is that he's doing exactly what he thinks people give out town reads for, and indeed what some of you have given him a town read for this game, simply post. He calls out "lurkers" to appear to contribute and care about the town atmosphere, something I readily see as a common trait in his mafia game and this one. On January 13 2013 07:14 Mocsta wrote: Wow. Thats it over the night shift. Oats u sound like sno_man. perhaps the aggresion u 2 have shown is why there is a lack of discussion. I think u should read what i posted to him. My questions are ice breakers and i have not a genuine comment from to stimulate town conversation. In fact. You are deterring conversation. @oatsmaster Why should i NOT treat is the outcome of your agressive posts [stopping fluid and positive town conversation] as scummy motivations On February 06 2013 16:34 Mocsta wrote: VE, you posted you would prefer nomination discussion to be held post Day 2 Dawn - when scum lynch candidates are released. My motive for the quote was along the lines of: the candidates are going to be chosen based on play Day 1. Yes that statement is obvious, hoever what I am trying to highlight is that effort needs to be made to make the decision for scum difficult. I listed 4 scenarios scum can take; we can't control that decision. What we can CONTROL is the viability of one of those options - to me, this is of benefit to town as it reduces WIFOM choices. I thought my message(s) were clear cut, but, perhaps I am not communicating myself effectively. If not, please let me know. Again, two similar posts in rationale from NMM XXXV and this game. In both posts, he wants to paint what he's doing as "pro-town" by, again, promoting a positive discussion-based atmosphere. He's concerned with how people perceive what he's doing, and wants to control the discussion on the matter. It's mafia mentality, plenty of people, Marv included, attempt to play "pro-town" when mafia. Mcosta, when mafia, is obsessed with the concept, just like he is in this game. I highly doubt Mocsta is town. Who is his scum read so far? All I see in his filter is a bunch of arguing with Oats, and then arriving at the conclusion that he's town/null/whatever. It doesn't look to me like he's hunting mafia, it looks like to me that he's just trying to look town. In this post, yamato essential states that Mocsta was fake contributing day 1, just calling out people for contribution and lurking, with tone similar to his scum meta. Also, he has a problem with Mocsta caring about his own appearance. However, why did yamato switch his read? + Show Spoiler + On February 07 2013 12:54 yamato77 wrote: I'm starting to come around to the idea of town Mocsta, actually. I believe he has a scum read on me, wrong or not. I'm not going to pick apart his case on me, because honestly it's too time consuming to do so, but rather, I'll say this: Reread what you've quoted with the idea that I'm town in your head, and you'll see what I've been doing this game. It does no good for you, as town, to continue to pursue me. With that, I'd be behind a JX lynch. His one post is a "case" and vote on Mocsta. He was a QT spammer in our game together, and was far more active there than the thread, as opposed to his "carefree" town games like LIX. I'd be behind his lynch. Palmar should also be on people's minds. No, you don't want to lynch Palmar D1 if he's town, but you don't exactly want him staying alive until tomorrow if mafia, either, so if he refuses to do anything for the rest of today I would say he should almost certainly be our lynch. A weak ass joke-vote on Prplhz is not meaningful contribution. I don't like a Djodref lynch at the moment, but I need to reassess his posting from a more objective standpoint. I was giving him too much credit for his Mocsta read before. Still, I think he is perhaps not the best choice in front of people like JX/Palmar, so he's a backburner for me. I don't know what's going on between VE/Snarfs, but I don't think people are cool with lynching VE so Snarfs needs some better contributions than a "case" on VE that I don't find to be good. He realizes, "hey, mocsta has a scumread". The lack of mocsta's scumreads was a major basis of yamato's scum read on mocsta. Why wouldn't yamato switch his read upon realizing a major reason for mocsta being scum was wrong? 2) Being stubborn about a JX lynch d1 By the end of day1, yamato was stubborn on JX. However, Jay totally disregards the fact that yamato had commented with cases on yamato, phagga, and prplhz. Yamato had shown that he was actively trying to figure out the game, and had settled on JX for the lynch. 3) The case on snarfs He pretty much calls yamato's case on snarfs a pure lurker lynch. Yet he totally disregards what Yamato said, which imo was decent analysis of the situation Here are yamato's words on the snarfs vote: "Assume that Sloosh and Mocsta are town. With Palmar's green flip, that means that I was wrong and mafia decided to make the lynch a choice between three town players. They don't care who dies, really, because any of the three is good for them. So mafia are more inclined to not care at all what happens yesterday. They lurk, slap their vote somewhere, and do nothing relevant to the game because there is zero chance of them getting lynched and they have no reason to push a mafia agenda. So who fits this bill from yesterday? Snarfs, jay, and djo. Djo is the question mark of the three, because he simply didn't post at all. The other two, however, had very similar days and patterns of activity. They both slapped their vote on someone early, and then basically AFK'd. Right now, I think Snarfs is the best lynch because of this behavior and his similar behavior around the lynch day 1 where he didn't vote JX but rather put Hus vote on VE and used his 'case' as an excuse to not comment on the actual lynch. He should die today." This is in no way a pure lurker lynch suggestion. It's a vote based on the fact that someone didn't care about the lynch, which is usually a scumtell. 4) The timing of jay's case on yamato. Look at the timestamp of jay's case. Now look at the timestamp of when yamato voted snarfs. On February 11 2013 12:45 yamato77 wrote: One heuristic that I find important to mention about the behavior of people around yesterday's lynch is simple activity. Assume that Sloosh and Mocsta are town. With Palmar's green flip, that means that I was wrong and mafia decided to make the lynch a choice between three town players. They don't care who dies, really, because any of the three is good for them. So mafia are more inclined to not care at all what happens yesterday. They lurk, slap their vote somewhere, and do nothing relevant to the game because there is zero chance of them getting lynched and they have no reason to push a mafia agenda. So who fits this bill from yesterday? Snarfs, jay, and djo. Djo is the question mark of the three, because he simply didn't post at all. The other two, however, had very similar days and patterns of activity. They both slapped their vote on someone early, and then basically AFK'd. Right now, I think Snarfs is the best lynch because of this behavior and his similar behavior around the lynch day 1 where he didn't vote JX but rather put Hus vote on VE and used his 'case' as an excuse to not comment on the actual lynch. He should die today. ##Vote Snarfs As for other reads, obviously I think jay is an acceptable alternative lynch candidate. I defended him early day 1 but since then he's done very little, which is more in line with how I view his scum meta. When he's town he at least cares enough to post his thoughts, but this game he's not even doing that anymore and is probably mafia for it. Phagga is scummy, as others have outlined. I don't see him as red as I do snarfs or jay, but he's on my radar. If I was making a hypothetical scum team, I'd say the fourth might be Oats. In the past day his activity has dropped off a cliff and I don't know what his reads in the game are anymore. He seems to be sticking to his guns from day 1 but has no new information to support his reads and hasn't been very active in the game. For town reads, Mocsta and Sloosh look really town to me, mostly from their play while under the gun. I'm more confident on Mocsta than Sloosh, but I would defend either one's towniness. VE and prplhz are also both town to me, despite other player's suspicions of them. If I need to defend them today, I will, because neither show scum traits to me at all. Cheesecake, you asked for my read on you. You lean town to me, but you're real blendy and not at all confrontational like I think town CC is. I suppose you haven't been accused seriously yet, but you also aren't going out of your way to pressure your reads like I think town CC usually does. You're more null than I expected at this point in the game. If you guys think I'm mafia for serious, come at me, but neither case from yesterday is at all good. I've been the towniest yamato of all time. Bring the cases on. 17 minutes after yamato votes snarfs, Jay magically has a case on him, based on palmar's reads and jay's bad/twisted reasoning. That, my friends, is scummy. Now, for Jay's vote on VE. Snarfs had pushed VE hard since the beginning of the game, and, not only did jay join the wagon, jay also freaked out when snarfs was getting lynched. But, the main problem was the timing of his voteswitch. After oats unvoted yamato, and yamato's lynch was losing steam, jay did not keep pushing yamato. Instead, Jay suddenly decides, "oh, i'll just join the VE wagon that suddenly popped up". What was his reasoning for VE being scum? On February 13 2013 06:58 jaybrundage wrote: Yea I love how divided the votes are It will make it so much easier to see scum movements later in the day. And actually the thing I wanted to talk to you about was changing the vote to VE today. But you did it earlier then I would of liked. I wanted to get more a read of VE and scum friends on if they would of killed Yamato instead of Snarfs instead. ##UnVote ##Vote VisceraEyes I looked thru the 3 pages before the VE vote, and guess what? Jay never made a case on VE, yet he saw him as "very likely scum". That's odd and scummy as shit, especially considering snarfs was scum and had pushed VE all game long. Suddenly, when snarfs is under heavy pressure, jay sees it fitting to vote yamato, who he made a big case on, and then unvote yamato for VE, whom he never made a case on. I have more i need to add in there. These are the clear reads I got from the day3 analysis I also find it curious how you still have a null read on sloosh On February 20 2013 16:16 Oatsmaster wrote: Yeah I dont agree with it. The lynchpin seems to be that he is pushing prp over snarfs. The problem with that is EVERYBODY wanted to lynch Prp after day 2. It seems very subjective.... Also half the stuff you are saying isnt really a scumtell, and you arent saying that its a scumtell. So its useless and just makes your 'case' confusing. I think we should lynch slOosh to be safe today. I have stronger townreads on CC and yamato, still null on slOosh. So Yamato, Who are your strongest 2 scumreads? A null read at this point in the game is worthless. There is plenty of material to work off of. And, as the kicker, you want to lynch the strongest town player out of the 3 who are likely town | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
| ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 00:09 Oatsmaster wrote: So his town meta is not active and involved? Meh, Im finding it difficult to find scum. Grr.. Ok Today I want to lynch slOosh. Tomorrow, I want to lynch Jay (In game days) After that, I will relook my reads in view of the flips. On February 20 2013 15:42 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok everybody. Top 2 scum reads. And quick summary on why they are scum If you dont do it, its a scum tell. For me Jay: Scum. He doesnt care who is scum, his sheeping off Palmar to make a horrible case on yamato which doesnt say why he is scum at all. Then he doesnt care to follow up at all. he seems too proud that his town meta is sheeping people and he is self deprecating. Djo/Debears Scum Djo did the really really bad RNG idea for lynching and thats pretty much ALL his contribution before he replaced. Debears also seems to not really be involved in the game, like he has no convictions in his reads. For someone who wants to lynch me for not having "conviction in my reads", you sure seem to be having trouble doing so. | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
| ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
##Vote Jay | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 17 2013 01:53 debears wrote: He pushed VE hard with no case written on VE at all by himself. He just suddenly decided "hey, VE is totes scum". You don't find that weird after he wrote about yamato? + Show Spoiler + On February 11 2013 13:02 jaybrundage wrote: YAMATO Cause Palmar said so WELP HERE WE GO Well first of all there's this Lets start from the top Yamato wants to lynch Mocsta as quite a bit of people viewed Mocsta scummy at first Oats naming one and i know he had about 3-4 votes at one point in time. However when Mocsta actually writes up his defense Yamato completly back tracks. And chalks it up to Mocsta misunderstanding his case? Yamato thought Mocsta was scum it wouldn't be misunderstanding it would be him twisting words. And then Yamato just flips it around and calls Mocsta town later. Ok So here Yamato comes full circle in Mocsta from hes scum to idk to yea hes town. And get this then Yamato calls JX scummy for calling Mocsta scum when a short while ago. Yamato was going after Mocsta with a pick axe. Also note his need as scum to want to kill Palmar ASAP. Here he just becomes unreasonable demanding a JX lynch while not even listening to alternatives The sole reason he wants to go after people now is lack of activity. He legit with all the information we have got from two lynches is gonna do a lurker lynch is he fucking srs? Yes lurking can be a tell of scum. But to use it alone as who you decide to kill at this point in the game is just a easy scum route. Also look at the people that he's defending VE prlhz the exact people that Palmar and Sloosh are going for. Also keep in mind his one track mind to want ot lynch Palmar. We have SCUM Yamato here. ##Vote Yamato Then, there's jay's refusal to lynch snarfs. + Show Spoiler + On February 12 2013 13:23 jaybrundage wrote: 1 Hey last game I was scum I used attacks on Bugs to rile him up and make him not think clearly. Nicely done. 2 Stop using emotional bullshit to try to pull out a response from people. Also you refuse to find a second candidate. WTF is this? If your town then start looking. Snarfs is not gonna be killed today. I have said this like three times and you refuse to answer. WHAT'S YOUR SECOND SCUM READ What was his reasoning for not lynching snarfs??????? + Show Spoiler + On February 12 2013 11:56 jaybrundage wrote: Snarfs: I thought snarfs was scummy for a bit. But with my change of read on VE and the way snarf was pushing VE since day 1 I have come around on him also the fact that the people who are voting him are in my scum team makes it so I think that he's a mislynch that scum is pushing. My last comment on him was to many scum want him dead and its true alot of scummy people are pushing him as a mislynch. Yamato is still a scum candidate. I'll give more thoughts on him later. I want to see his posting and what he plans to do because so far its been jack shit. The reasons you stated are the exact reasons they are probably scum. CC has sat under the radar. He hasn't been pressured and he hasn't done anything. His flipflop on yamato is also scummy as hell. Oats as well he started off decent too many people gave him a pass on his conversation with you. Since then he hasn't contributed to the town at all. You like that logical fallacy thing eh. Well ill use it against you. not. That guy Palmar... Ill give ya a secret He's an expert Also just so you note. Oats was on Palmars town list. I do take his reads seriously but I don't mind branching out either. Was his town read on snarfs based on analysis of snarfs play? Hell no. It was an association, based on no flips, based on a couple votes on snarfs. WHY DID JAY NOT MENTION ANALYSIS OF SNARFS PLAY IF HE HAS SUCH A STRONG READ ON HIM If jay was town, he would defend snarfs based on analysis of snarfs play, not some "oh, i think these guys are scum and voting this other guys even though i have no analysis on the guy they are voting". Oats, Ctrl F jay's filter for snarfs. You will see what i mean On February 17 2013 02:01 debears wrote: If he was so sure VE was scum, why did he not provide analysis and reasoning that would persuade others that VE is scum? Why did he have to resort to screaming "OMG VE is scum!!!!!" Where is the logical, persuasive reasoning that a townie would provide to persuade people to his lynch? There wasn't any. There was just begging for people to not lynch scum (snarfs) and lynch VE instead On February 17 2013 02:16 debears wrote: Oats I have one more thing for you. I would also like input from others (not named Jay) on what I've wrote. What do you think about Jay's comments around the Palmar lynch? What does that post accomplish from each perspective by jay? Town - he is 99.999999% sure palmar is town. He wants to spread suspicion on everyone on the palmar wagon (even though not all the palmar wagon can be scum). He's pissed for people voting for a wagon that he was on for most of the day. He pissed because he came in with only 30 minutes left til lynch to suddenly argue for palmar What kind of town comes back 30 minutes before lynch, to suddenly switch his vote and then proceed to flame everyone about lynching a townie when he was on that townies wagon for most of the day before the flip? Scum - he knows palmar is town. He helps contribute to the palmar wagon. Then, with 30 minutes left he switches votes to act angry to look townie Bitching about a mislynch is in no way pro-town. Bitching about a mislynch when you do nothing to prevent that mislynch (coming in 30 minutes before and making two posts is not doing anything) is scummy as shit. On February 17 2013 02:25 debears wrote: Yes, it's possible. Here's my problem with jay day 1 - Votes JX day 2 - votes palmar, then switches to mocsta and bitches about palmars lynch day 3 - hard defends snarfs, votes for VE Is he having that bad of a game and coincidentally doing multiple scummy things, or is he just scum? I'll keep looking All These points still haven't been refuted at all. I refuse to budge from voting jay until they are | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 15:03 yamato77 wrote: That's a bad attempt at making the VE lynch look bad. Why do you think VE is town, debears? Let's talk it out. 1) Namely, a scum (snarfs) pushed him solely from the beginning of day 1 on. 2) My 2 top scumreads are voting him so quickly 3) My 2 top scumreads have no case on him. They are pure sheeping | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 15:05 jaybrundage wrote: @debears I responded to your case. Good job ignoring it. But at this point you should just bus VE. Try to save some face. Your responses were wifom or weren't actual defenses + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2013 12:12 jaybrundage wrote: @Debears Oats has pretty much defended me satisfactory. He knows the best lynch Na pretty well :o. The pre association case before a flip was pretty bad I have to stop doing that. If you have anymore questions or concerns plz address them to me. If not let's lynch Phagga. @CC You know I'm tempting man. Im the tastiest pie eva @Phagga I agree completely on the vote switch looking scummy. Also his hesitantness to vote on VE after the case and then the flip flop looks bad On February 20 2013 10:24 jaybrundage wrote: But what if its my town meta too look like scum. But regardless your scum this game. So no use talking about it. On February 20 2013 10:34 jaybrundage wrote: I did have reason for voting VE. It wasn't a big case but I stated my intent here. He wiggles his way out of Sloosh's questions and then throws dirt on Sloosh for no reason. The bolded is my response. Also If i was Snarf's teammate I would of bussed him reallly realllly hard. I think that bussing is a tatic in mafia that people are hesitant to abuse. I would of bussed Snarfs sooo hard if i was mafia it would of not even been funny How is any of that a fucking rebuttal? "My meta is scummy" "I would've bussed snarfs" "Town can have faulty reasoning" All are piss poor excuses for a scum. Die scum | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 15:09 jaybrundage wrote: WOW PREASSOCIATION CASES BEFORE A FLIP. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I DID TO THINK SNARFS WAS TOWN AND YOU CALLED IT SCUMMY. YOU CONTRADICTING YOUR SELF BRA IT'S SCUMMY. IT'S LYLO YOU DIPSHIT. ASSOCIATION CASES HAVE CREDIT IN LYLO | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
Jay is scum. Vote for scum | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 15:11 yamato77 wrote: Actually lylo is when I'd say you should be MOST inclined to ignore associations and judge based on play alone. I want a full response from you on my case of VE before I even consider the POSSIBILITY of lynching jay, and that's only if you can completely prove me wrong. I want your response on my case on jay then as well | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 15:11 yamato77 wrote: Actually lylo is when I'd say you should be MOST inclined to ignore associations and judge based on play alone. I want a full response from you on my case of VE before I even consider the POSSIBILITY of lynching jay, and that's only if you can completely prove me wrong. Also that statement is just pure wrong | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 15:15 yamato77 wrote: I think I'm right on this one bud. Considering your whole town read on VE is association bullshit, I'd think you were better than that. The strongest part of my read on him is the snarfs pushing him HARD since early day 1. That means they would have to plan pushing each other FROM THE VERY BEGINNING | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 06 2013 14:25 Snarfs wrote: Hmm, disappear while two other players start shitting up the thread? Congrats VE, you're already #1 on my list. ##vote VisceraEyes As far as the voting mechanics go, it really is a ton of WIFOm. You're both saying the same thing in different ways. Yes, we lynch scum and we need to not look scummy. Yes, scum is going to try to trick us into debating ad infinitum about the composition of their nominations. That pretty much ends the discussion, doesn't it? Look very closely at everything the nominees say and lynch the scum. No need to over complicate it. If it comes down to multiple people contributing well to town, we can discuss it then. On February 07 2013 08:44 Snarfs wrote: All right, so here are my thoughts: 1) On VE: My vote on VE was initially because of exactly what I said - of the three people that came into the conversation, he was the quickest to abandon it when things got heated. Now, he claims that he was commuting and I can't exactly dispute that. But since then, I've had no reason to move my vote off of him. Look at the way he's saying things. Who is he even pressuring? Read through his filter and try to figure out who he's pushing. Palmar!? We're not lynching Palmar day 1, why waste time? As for the other people VE is "pressuring", there's no vindication. Phagga? Nope. yamato? Maybe, I can't really tell. When VE is town, he pushes people. He pushes them hard to determine their alignment and it's obvious he's pushing people. I think this is scum VE. 2) In response to Mr. Cheesecake: I was just saying what was on my mind. I was hoping by adding the "but" part of things someone else who knew these players would chime in. There are a lot of new faces here for me, and I apologize for not making it more clear that I was looking for some input from someone else. Either way, the point I was getting across was that it was not scummy that they were arguing like that. I was just answering the question that was asked. Please read my first point and if this comment still stands feel free to rephrase it or ask again. 3) On Mocsta: It looks like most of the votes on Mocsta are based on meta (correct me if I'm wrong, please: Oats, yamato, JX). Now, from the case that yamato makes, my biggest issue is that the tone between NMM XXXV (the referenced scum game) and this game is quite different. In the referenced game, he is quite unabrasive. He is questioning people but he's not actually showing any emotion, as in this game. Compare: vs. Quote 1 sounds all nice and blendy in. Quote 2 is.. not. This meta argument is not convincing enough to sway me to change my vote. On February 07 2013 23:54 Snarfs wrote: Here and catching up now. I'm just on page 20 and I see Djo is voting Palmar as well?? Guys, Palmar is not a lynch target day 1. Why? Because if he's town, he will find scum! And if he doesn't find scum, we lynch him later in the game! It's that simple! He's too hard to read otherwise, and this is by far the best indicator of his alignment. Lynching him day 1 is way too risky in a cost/benefit sense. As for people doubting my read on VE (clearly this is the case as no one seems to be listening), if you have time right now please look through my history for the game where I vig'd VE night 1 when him and ace were scum. It was one of bugs' games, I can't remember the name right now and I'm on my phone or I'd look it up myself. He's playing exactly like that! Now I'm going to finish catching up. I can make a more detailed case on VE when I'm not lying in bed at 7 am (I'll pull the quoted out of that game for you if no one else does me the favour of linking it). On February 08 2013 01:25 Snarfs wrote: Okay, I'm caught up give me another little bit to get to my computer and I'll do up that case on VE. I don't think prplhz is a good lynch. Normally when prplhz is town I feel like he's scummy and right now I feel like he's scummy so he's probably town. Last time we played together we were both scum and he was a lot more tunnely. Last time I was town I tried to lynch him because he gives off this just blending in vibe that I picked up this game from his first couple of posts - my immediate reaction was to agree with Palmar that he's scum, but I double checked these last two games I'm talking about and this seems much more in line with town prplhz. On February 08 2013 02:04 Snarfs wrote: What I expect from town VE He wants people to know he's town! He wants to establish innocence! This would make even more sense in a game where HE CAN'T BE KILLED AT NIGHT. Again, he wants people to know he's town! He wants to be the big man on campus when he's town. He plays around with people to try and actually figure out if they're scum! He prods and gets people to react emotionally. I see very little of that this game. What I expect from scum VE Wishy-washy. "oooo I don't know... i see it more as townZentor... boohoo" "oooo I THINK they're both town but I could be wrong..." "Screw it, I'm too tired to find scum. Let's just vote this guy who thinks I'm scum." THINGS YOU SHOULD BE NOTICING: 1) When he's town he doesn't give a f***. 2) When he's town he MAKES DAMN SURE HE LOOKS TOWN 3) When he's town his reads actually make sense, when he's scum I can't tell why he's doing what he's doing. I can't tell his motives right now. I don't know why he's voting for prplhz. Because Palmar is? But Palmar is his number 1 scum read? It doesn't make sense! Scum scum scum. On February 08 2013 02:25 Snarfs wrote: I'm trying to illustrate here how VE finds scum. If you read his filter this game, you'll notice this is not what he's doing. If you know how someone tries to find scum and you know that that's not what they're doing this game, then it's a combination of meta and gamesense, or whatever you want to call it. This is not VE trying to find scum. On February 08 2013 02:55 Snarfs wrote: I'll answer your question but I need you to answer mine: Tell me why you think VE is "probably town". I just don't see him trying to find scum right now. And sure, maybe my meta is out of date, but that doesn't change the fact that he's still being all wishy-washy like in his reads. Look at how he attacks me: First of all, notice how he starts "I think Snarfs might well be scum. So here's a little push in his direction, care of the guy who isn't pushing anyone." He's not aggressive, he's not interested. Hell he's not even addressing me. ------------------------------------------- I still don't like a Palmar lynch. I can't read Palmar like I can read VE. If I thought VE might be town I would be just as against a VE lynch as a Palmar lynch because they both have an uncanny ability to find scum as town. That is just from the first page of snarf's filter Yamato. Read it. Nearly all Snarf's effort was slinging shit on VE and trying to show VE is scum. Yet again, answer this very important question: What is the purpose for scum solely pushing their own scummate without making any other contributions to the game? Who else did Snarf's truly try to set up? If VE is scum, was Snarf's (and scum) purposely ceding all thread control by not pushing anyone else? | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 15:30 Oatsmaster wrote: Because snarf's didnt have any influence, by bussing VE early, he could have town cred if VE flipped before him. I did this in LIX too. So you are saying scum planned on snarfs, who had NO THREAD PRESENCE OR TOWN CRED, to be lynched after VE, WHO HAD SOME THREAD PRESENCE AND TOWN CRED??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? You are saying that their whole plan revolved around this ridiculous assumption. A person with thread presence will not be lynched over a person without thread presence 90% of the time | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 15:21 yamato77 wrote: Is that really that difficult to fathom? Also, I want to see how Snarfs "pushed VE hard" when it was obvious he was completely un-involved in the affairs of town. His read on VE was distancing, not an honest attempt to get him lynched. It's pretty obvious. Just so we are clear that snarfs had no thread presence | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 15:48 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I really hate to admit it, but debears making more sense than either of you guys. And he prolly scum, lol. :/ dude | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 15:52 Oatsmaster wrote: It wasnt a plan, snarfs couldnt really find any town scummy, said, hey VE im gonna bus you, and possibly gain town cred for attacking a really good player. Then, unfortuately, VE turns out to be alongside Snarfs as the day 3 lynchees. Are you serious? You don't play mafia by going "hey, I'm not gonna attempt at all to frame any townies day 1. I'm gonna frame just you scumbuddies!" That doesn't happen day 1. Snarfs solely pushed VE day 1. Scum would be ceding at least 1/4 of their thread presence and power for a stupid potential bus for town cred that only lasts for so long. | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 15:52 yamato77 wrote: You can't have it both ways. Snarfs having no thread presence implies that there's no possible way for him to lynch VE, and is thus completely worthless in terms of being able to determine VE's alignment. On February 21 2013 15:54 debears wrote: Are you serious? You don't play mafia by going "hey, I'm not gonna attempt at all to frame any townies day 1. I'm gonna frame just you scumbuddies!" That doesn't happen day 1. Snarfs solely pushed VE day 1. Scum would be ceding at least 1/4 of their thread presence and power for a stupid potential bus for town cred that only lasts for so long. | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 15:56 yamato77 wrote: Snarfs never made any serious attempt to lead town toward lynching VE all game. VE never made any serious attempt to lead town toward lynching Snarfs all game. Your point is now moot. You need to sit down and READ yamato When you make all your posts trying to frame someone, that is a serious attempt to try to get them lynched by that person, despite to the standards that you would hold up to yourself. In other words, just because for you it wouldn't be a serious attempt to get VE lynched, it was a serious attempt by snarfs by looking at his low post, lurky playstyle On February 21 2013 15:28 debears wrote: + Show Spoiler + On February 06 2013 14:25 Snarfs wrote: Hmm, disappear while two other players start shitting up the thread? Congrats VE, you're already #1 on my list. ##vote VisceraEyes As far as the voting mechanics go, it really is a ton of WIFOm. You're both saying the same thing in different ways. Yes, we lynch scum and we need to not look scummy. Yes, scum is going to try to trick us into debating ad infinitum about the composition of their nominations. That pretty much ends the discussion, doesn't it? Look very closely at everything the nominees say and lynch the scum. No need to over complicate it. If it comes down to multiple people contributing well to town, we can discuss it then. On February 07 2013 08:44 Snarfs wrote: All right, so here are my thoughts: 1) On VE: My vote on VE was initially because of exactly what I said - of the three people that came into the conversation, he was the quickest to abandon it when things got heated. Now, he claims that he was commuting and I can't exactly dispute that. But since then, I've had no reason to move my vote off of him. Look at the way he's saying things. Who is he even pressuring? Read through his filter and try to figure out who he's pushing. Palmar!? We're not lynching Palmar day 1, why waste time? As for the other people VE is "pressuring", there's no vindication. Phagga? Nope. yamato? Maybe, I can't really tell. When VE is town, he pushes people. He pushes them hard to determine their alignment and it's obvious he's pushing people. I think this is scum VE. 2) In response to Mr. Cheesecake: I was just saying what was on my mind. I was hoping by adding the "but" part of things someone else who knew these players would chime in. There are a lot of new faces here for me, and I apologize for not making it more clear that I was looking for some input from someone else. Either way, the point I was getting across was that it was not scummy that they were arguing like that. I was just answering the question that was asked. Please read my first point and if this comment still stands feel free to rephrase it or ask again. 3) On Mocsta: It looks like most of the votes on Mocsta are based on meta (correct me if I'm wrong, please: Oats, yamato, JX). Now, from the case that yamato makes, my biggest issue is that the tone between NMM XXXV (the referenced scum game) and this game is quite different. In the referenced game, he is quite unabrasive. He is questioning people but he's not actually showing any emotion, as in this game. Compare: vs. Quote 1 sounds all nice and blendy in. Quote 2 is.. not. This meta argument is not convincing enough to sway me to change my vote. On February 07 2013 23:54 Snarfs wrote: Here and catching up now. I'm just on page 20 and I see Djo is voting Palmar as well?? Guys, Palmar is not a lynch target day 1. Why? Because if he's town, he will find scum! And if he doesn't find scum, we lynch him later in the game! It's that simple! He's too hard to read otherwise, and this is by far the best indicator of his alignment. Lynching him day 1 is way too risky in a cost/benefit sense. As for people doubting my read on VE (clearly this is the case as no one seems to be listening), if you have time right now please look through my history for the game where I vig'd VE night 1 when him and ace were scum. It was one of bugs' games, I can't remember the name right now and I'm on my phone or I'd look it up myself. He's playing exactly like that! Now I'm going to finish catching up. I can make a more detailed case on VE when I'm not lying in bed at 7 am (I'll pull the quoted out of that game for you if no one else does me the favour of linking it). On February 08 2013 01:25 Snarfs wrote: Okay, I'm caught up give me another little bit to get to my computer and I'll do up that case on VE. I don't think prplhz is a good lynch. Normally when prplhz is town I feel like he's scummy and right now I feel like he's scummy so he's probably town. Last time we played together we were both scum and he was a lot more tunnely. Last time I was town I tried to lynch him because he gives off this just blending in vibe that I picked up this game from his first couple of posts - my immediate reaction was to agree with Palmar that he's scum, but I double checked these last two games I'm talking about and this seems much more in line with town prplhz. On February 08 2013 02:04 Snarfs wrote: What I expect from town VE He wants people to know he's town! He wants to establish innocence! This would make even more sense in a game where HE CAN'T BE KILLED AT NIGHT. Again, he wants people to know he's town! He wants to be the big man on campus when he's town. He plays around with people to try and actually figure out if they're scum! He prods and gets people to react emotionally. I see very little of that this game. What I expect from scum VE Wishy-washy. "oooo I don't know... i see it more as townZentor... boohoo" "oooo I THINK they're both town but I could be wrong..." "Screw it, I'm too tired to find scum. Let's just vote this guy who thinks I'm scum." THINGS YOU SHOULD BE NOTICING: 1) When he's town he doesn't give a f***. 2) When he's town he MAKES DAMN SURE HE LOOKS TOWN 3) When he's town his reads actually make sense, when he's scum I can't tell why he's doing what he's doing. I can't tell his motives right now. I don't know why he's voting for prplhz. Because Palmar is? But Palmar is his number 1 scum read? It doesn't make sense! Scum scum scum. On February 08 2013 02:25 Snarfs wrote: I'm trying to illustrate here how VE finds scum. If you read his filter this game, you'll notice this is not what he's doing. If you know how someone tries to find scum and you know that that's not what they're doing this game, then it's a combination of meta and gamesense, or whatever you want to call it. This is not VE trying to find scum. On February 08 2013 02:55 Snarfs wrote: I'll answer your question but I need you to answer mine: Tell me why you think VE is "probably town". I just don't see him trying to find scum right now. And sure, maybe my meta is out of date, but that doesn't change the fact that he's still being all wishy-washy like in his reads. Look at how he attacks me: First of all, notice how he starts "I think Snarfs might well be scum. So here's a little push in his direction, care of the guy who isn't pushing anyone." He's not aggressive, he's not interested. Hell he's not even addressing me. ------------------------------------------- I still don't like a Palmar lynch. I can't read Palmar like I can read VE. If I thought VE might be town I would be just as against a VE lynch as a Palmar lynch because they both have an uncanny ability to find scum as town. That is just from the first page of snarf's filter Yamato. Read it. Nearly all Snarf's effort was slinging shit on VE and trying to show VE is scum. Yet again, answer this very important question: What is the purpose for scum solely pushing their own scummate without making any other contributions to the game? Who else did Snarf's truly try to set up? If VE is scum, was Snarf's (and scum) purposely ceding all thread control by not pushing anyone else? | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 15:57 Oatsmaster wrote: Did you not read LIX? I did that to Gonzaw, gonzaw bussed me back, ended up being lynched before me, and I got town cred. Not much, but it was still a reason for people to think that I was town. Sometimes there is no 'plan' because it looks too organized/scum is not very organized. I was in that right? If I recall correctly, you didn't solely push Gonzaw, but I'll take a quick peak and see if the circumstances are similar in context. | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
| ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 16:02 yamato77 wrote: read my case on VE, walk away with complete knowledge of his play this game and how even with the snarfs association, he's still completely mafia. Then lynch him, and scum concede. Read my case on jay, lynch jay, lynch oats, scum concede | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 16:06 yamato77 wrote: CC, THINK ABOUT THIS: If VE is town, why would either of me or you (and Mocsta) be put up as nominations before him? Palmar and Sloosh, two veteran players, were nominated day 2, yet the third is NOT VE, but one of the newest players, Mocsta. D4, you were put up. D6, me. Is VE really less of a threat as town then either of us? No. He's fucking mafia, and mafia aren't nominating themselves at all. Palmar is a better town player than VE. Sloosh was considered town (I believe). Mocsta was considered town. VE was not (if i remember correctly) | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
Could be you by the way you are going  Phagga's lack of posting is inclining me towards him. So why is Jay town yamato? | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 16:10 yamato77 wrote: Palmar was in more danger of getting lynched on a regular day than VE was, yet it was Palmar who went up, not VE. Plus, CC and I are still worse choices than VE if mafia is killing dangerous townies. Both of us did way more to get the only mafia lynched so far than VE did. THE NOMINATIONS YOU MENTIONED WERE DAY 2. GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS. You and CC were pretty confirmed after the snarfs lynch. MAFIA CANNOT HAVE CONFIRMED TOWNIES IN THIS SETUP | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 16:10 yamato77 wrote: Put your money where your mouth is and make a case on me, bitch. Jay is town because that guy IS Best Mislynch WORLD. That is the worst reasoning in the world. Show me through analysis of his play | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 16:13 yamato77 wrote: Lol, refuted my own point. Whatever, VE should have been nominated if he was town, plain and simple. There's no good reason town VE has yet to be nominated. But he's not town, hasn't acted townie, and should die for it. Hey, I refute my own arguments, but I'm still so obviously right! Seriously yamato, when i go over your case in depth with the context I will show you. You better fucking read the post I make slowly and actually think. | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 16:16 yamato77 wrote: Jay's town meta is to look scummy, all the damn time. Analyzing his play from some objective sense of how town and mafia play does no good, because he doesn't play that way. Scum motivation behind the posts and scummy posts are two different things | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
| ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 16:18 yamato77 wrote: Look, dude, I made my case. It's fucking lylo, and the scum team is in front of you. I made my case, and you still have not said you would look over it. I have complied and agreed to look over yours. You are being stubborn and uncompliant, which is exactly the recipe for a mislynch in lylo. If you notice my location tag, it is late and I don't want to have to thread dive (your VE case lacks the context behind his posts) | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 16:23 yamato77 wrote: I highly doubt jay is actually mafia. When he was mafia, he didn't even bother to have reads or cases, he just did shit randomly and trolled. It's blatantly obvious that he cares about figuring out this game, and has been involved with town about his reads. His drop of me during day 3 was the towniest thing I've ever seen jay do. Believe me when I say, I've been mafia in this exact same situation. In British Empire, I tried to get jay/zentor lynched SO HARD, but town Hapa knew better. Town Hapa identified jay's level of contribution to the game as a solid heuristic towards his towniness, correctly so. You have to prove jay is scum by meta, and right now he's not matching it at all. Link me the Hapa post if possible and I'll take a look at it | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
Why VE is town The Mocsta/Oats Shitfest + Show Spoiler + On February 06 2013 16:43 VisceraEyes wrote: No I get that part Moc and I totally agree - join me in my crusade against the unholy lurker demographic and we'll purge this town. We're all three of us (you me and Oats) saying the same thing...that everyone needs to contribute. I think the breakdown is that we all seem to have different motives when we actually don't. Oats = Shut up and scumhunt Moc = Improve town atmosphere VE = Kill the lurker. I submit that in the name of moving the game forward, we all recognize that those three conclusions are all means to the same end: finding and eliminating scum. In this way, we can all focus on what matters: the posts of those who haven't contributed yet. What do you say guys? Truce? On February 06 2013 17:06 VisceraEyes wrote: Why is that a scumtell? Can't Mocsta be town and think you're serious? Or couldn't he be town and, as you say, misinterpret what you're saying to gauge your reaction? Why does he have to be scum based on that? On February 07 2013 03:13 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm going to play devil's advocate here. At the point in the game where Mocsta was most active, over half of the people who have checked in now had not at the time. Does that, in your mind, explain the "lack of scumhunting" you're seeing here yamato? I want to kill Palmar for being a useless...thing...that is useless... VE is one of a few people who took time to shut up both Oats and Mocsta. Shit fests like these are beneficial to scum because it's hard to accomplish anything in the thread. Not only that, but he took a reasonable approach to helping Mocsta from being tunneled for no reason. His read on Palmar vs that on snarfs On February 07 2013 03:28 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh neat, Palmar didn't even comment on random lynching. Another infallible scum tell for our icelandic friend. ##Vote: Palmar One of the good indications for good players being scum is their lack of opinion of things going on in the thread, namely stupid things like an RNG lynch. Usually, when good town players like Foolish, Sandroba, and Palmar dont' make a mention of these types of things they are scum. On February 07 2013 08:29 VisceraEyes wrote: Why aren't you doing shit? You can't be scared of NKs, it's like you don't give a fuck. And in my experience a Palmar that doesn't give a fuck is a scum Palmar...and I hate scum. I FUCKING HATE SCUM PALMAR This is another good point, and a main reason why all of you lynched Palmar. In a game without nks, Palmar didn't do shit. Enough said. Palmar did not show up at all day 1. As town, I have seen palmar either be active, including himself in major happenings in the thread, or I've seen him do so in a trolling matter. The fact that Palmar lurked so hard is something way off for this type of game. His read on palmar was sensible. His push on snarfs day 1 I want to show the votecount for this part. It would explain alot of what was going on in the thread. On February 08 2013 10:02 GMarshal wrote: Day 1 Vote Count: Oatsmaster (1): JieXian Mocsta (0): VisceraEyes (2): Snarfs prplhz prplhz (1): Palmar Palmar (2): Djodref JieXian Yamato77 (0): Snarfs (1): Djodref (0): SlOosh (0): JieXian (6): Yamato77 Phagga Oatsmaster Mocsta Mr. Cheesecake jaybrundage VisceraEyes JieXian is currently set to be lynched. slOosh has not voted. You have 1 hour left until the end of the day. How many votes were ever on snarfs at one time? 2. Oats had backed off before VE voted. What does that mean? The snarfs lynch never gained momentum. There weren't 5 other people saying "hey snarfs is scum." You can push all you want on a lynch day 1, but if no one shows up on it, you have to find another lynch as town and keep that one in your back pocket. There were people like Mocsta unwilling to vote him. Now, let's look at VE's post on snafs On February 07 2013 09:35 VisceraEyes wrote: I think Snarfs might well be scum. So here's a little push in his direction, care of the guy who isn't pushing anyone. First of all, something I noticed last night. Here we see Snarfs' first vote on me. He's convinced of my alignment based on the fact that I left the thread "when two other players start shitting up the thread". But...why? Why is that indicative of me being scum? The only way that makes sense is if he is assuming that Oats and Mocsta are both town...and this is a conclusion he couldn't have already come to at this point in the game. This alone isn't really enough for me to call him scum, but then we see how he pushes me after this: Anything new in there? Just a weak-ass meta read based on 24 hours of D1. But he asked for others' opinions TWICE in those two posts. We have players who haven't said fuck all. He's saying we can't lynch Palmar today...why? Why the fuck not? He's not doing shit. But he wants to lynch me? Based on what? A weak ass meta read and an absence I've explained? It's cognitive dissonance. Why would he be against lynching Palmar D1 and not against lynching VE D1 for the same reason? I mean, okay if he thinks Palmar is better for town than me assuming we're both town, that's one thing...but he doesn't say as much. He simply shuts down the Palmar lynch for no reason...when no one is even voting for Palmar but me. Now I'm at a crossroads. I want to kill Palmar with the holy fire of righeousness. But I also want Snarfs to hang. I want others' opinions of this, because at this point I could go either way. Kill the scummy lurker who doesn't give a shit, or kill the scummy active participant? Right now I'm leaning lynching Palmar, but if there's more support for a Snarfs lynch I'm all over that shit. On February 07 2013 09:35 VisceraEyes wrote: I think Snarfs might well be scum. So here's a little push in his direction, care of the guy who isn't pushing anyone. First of all, something I noticed last night. Here we see Snarfs' first vote on me. He's convinced of my alignment based on the fact that I left the thread "when two other players start shitting up the thread". But...why? Why is that indicative of me being scum? The only way that makes sense is if he is assuming that Oats and Mocsta are both town...and this is a conclusion he couldn't have already come to at this point in the game. This alone isn't really enough for me to call him scum, but then we see how he pushes me after this: Anything new in there? Just a weak-ass meta read based on 24 hours of D1. But he asked for others' opinions TWICE in those two posts. We have players who haven't said fuck all. He's saying we can't lynch Palmar today...why? Why the fuck not? He's not doing shit. But he wants to lynch me? Based on what? A weak ass meta read and an absence I've explained? It's cognitive dissonance. Why would he be against lynching Palmar D1 and not against lynching VE D1 for the same reason? I mean, okay if he thinks Palmar is better for town than me assuming we're both town, that's one thing...but he doesn't say as much. He simply shuts down the Palmar lynch for no reason...when no one is even voting for Palmar but me. Now I'm at a crossroads. I want to kill Palmar with the holy fire of righeousness. But I also want Snarfs to hang. I want others' opinions of this, because at this point I could go either way. Kill the scummy lurker who doesn't give a shit, or kill the scummy active participant? Right now I'm leaning lynching Palmar, but if there's more support for a Snarfs lynch I'm all over that shit. Guess what? The support for a snarfs lynch wasn't there. His push on Palmar Another thing that wasn't looked at in context by yamato. Let's look at the distance between VE's vote on Palmar and any support that came on it. On February 07 2013 03:28 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh neat, Palmar didn't even comment on random lynching. Another infallible scum tell for our icelandic friend. ##Vote: Palmar On February 07 2013 12:01 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont care if Palmer is town actually at this point, he hasnt posted enough for ANYONE to get a read on him Vets cannot let their reputation carry the game for them, especially since there are no nightkills in this game so its not like he is gonna die day 1 if he is really good. This is a pure LURKER lynch. Mr CC has contributed more than him and he replaced like 12+ hours later. ##Unvote ##Vote: Palmer. It took almost 9 hours, and this was the only support that VE had on a Palmar lynch. So what did VE do next? Try to pressure someone else On February 07 2013 17:58 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay, I've read the whole thread again. First of all, where the fuck is prplhz and why isn't anyone else curious? He has literally 4 in game posts and while he appears to be interested in "thread atmosphere", I just have no idea who he thinks is scum. Djo bringing back up the whole Oats/Mocsta thing is just...confusing. What's the point? I'm not even sure what he's accusing Mocsta of in the first place. @Djo What exactly is your problem with Mocsta? It's like you're suspicious of him because he didn't join your random lynch (which you say that you didn't even really like). As I said earlier, I'm very very interested in clearing out the trash, being players who signed up and aren't playing. Right now that list is: Palmar prplhz Snarfs JX There's no way in hell they're all scum. Here's what I want to do. I think everyone should choose one name off that list that they believe is the most realistic lynch candidate based on what they perceive to be town sentiment. Then I want them to explain why they aren't voting for that person, and explain in detail why their lynch candidate is better. Know this. GM made it clear in the OP that lurkers will ruin this game. You don't even have to take my word for it, it's right in the OP. The worst thing townies can do in this setup is lurk. Therefor, I don't want to lynch someone active today. We can start lynching into active posters with more flip information. I think prplhz is the most realistic lynch candidate, and I'll tell you why (though you probably won't like it.) Palmar apparently wants to lynch prplhz. Is that fucked up or what? But it's true. If Palmar comes back in here and says "Yeah I still want to lynch prplhz" then I believe that prplhz will get lynched. In spite of fucking off for the entire game, Palmar has more say over who gets lynched than I do. But I'm not bitter - all is not lost you see. For I can also get down on a prplhz lynch. I'd still do somersaults over a Palmar lynch or Snarfs lynch, but honestly I just don't think I can make it happen today. ____________________________________________________________________ On the active posters: I'd like to see more from slOosh. Him backing out of his yamato read, while admirable I guess, leaves me wondering just who he thinks is scum. He mentioned phagga as a means of determining prplhz' alignment...somehow? But made it clear that he wasn't really a scumread. Ultimately he wants it to be clear that he's not doing nothing, which generally sets off red flags for me. He started out as a super townread too, which is why this is concerning for me. @slOosh You say "let's work with what we've got". I've got a case on Snarfs that you haven't commented on. I've got a lurker policy that I'd like you to consider. I'd really like to hear who you think is scum. yamato is on my to-do list tomorrow morning. So is Cheesecake. I'm going to bed now. ##Unvote: Palmar ##Vote: prplhz Yet again, VE had no support for this lynch. No one would agree with him. On February 08 2013 03:02 VisceraEyes wrote: Still no quotes from this game explaining your viewpoint. Just vague meta references and now you're throwing in non-alignment indicative bullshit. ##Unvote: prplhz ##Vote: Snarfs WOOOWOOOOOOOOO This is the lynch guys, all aboard. So, then VE tries to get snarfs lynched again. Guess what? No support on the lynch. Finally, VE cedes to the idea of lynching JX. On February 08 2013 06:52 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Unvote: Snarfs ##Vote: JieXian It's still true - it was just an observation. I wouldn't say he's been discussed "all day"...he doesn't even have enough content to warrant all-day discussion. And his resurgence into the thread when the threat of lynch is real certainly doesn't speak well for him either. What happened before this and at this time? The JX lynch had tons of momentum, and people had settled with the idea of lynching JX. What vote was VE on JX? The sixth and last vote according to the above votecount. His vote did not matter at that point. If he was town, he should consolidate onto a target anyways. VE's lynches never gained any momentum day 1, and if you look at the context, you see it wasn't a problem of conviction. It was a problem of people refusing to lynch with VE. The votecount and game thread show this. Snarfs pressure on VE What do we know about snarfs 1) He seriously pressured only VE day 1. (1/3 of snarfs filter is trying to convince people VE is scum) 2) He was scum 3) VE wanted him lynched day 1 (ie, the vote on snarfs and multiple mentions of snarfs) The scenarios for snarfs/VE interactions 1) Both scum It would be a double bus that was planned from the very beginning of day 1. Scum would want to cede 1/4 of their thread control. Scum would think that VE would get lynched first although he had much more thread presence than snarfs. Scum would want to bus one of their members early day 1 in a game without nks. Note: Scum can not have confirmed town running around in this game. By bussing their own member, they could only have 2 confirmed town in the thread, and even that would be pushing it. Scum would want the early bus to ride town cred, which is very fragile, for a whole game (which never happens - town cred only goes so far when the bus is early). 2) VE town, snarfs scum Snarfs locked onto VE in hopes of getting VE lynched/spread suspicion on him Scum were not ceding 1/4 of their thread control Snarfs would look like he is contributing by taking on a big named player Which has less and more believable assumptions? Ockham's razor says point 2 is much more likely | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
I don't see how you think VE is such an autolock as scum. You haven't refuted my cases. I have just shown why yours are wrong. Read you mugs | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 16:48 jaybrundage wrote: Man Debears is really trying his best to get the mislynch lynched. DEBEARS STOP FUCKING IGNORING ME I RESPONDED TO YOUR CASES YOU HAVEN'T POSTED ANYTHING IN RESPONSE. AS TOWN YOU WOULD TRY TO SEE MY REASONING AND RESPOND IN KIND. BUT INSTEAD YOU IGNORE ME AND INSTEAD OF TRYING TO FIND OUT MY ALIGNMENT YOU SCREAM SCUM. Also this is blatantly wrong SlOosh was not considered town he was afk most of day 1 and even got warned for not putting a vote in. He was scummy for lurking if anything. VE as town would of been put up in a heartbeat. Also VE doesn't seem to care about this game. He isn't even in here defending himself. On February 21 2013 15:09 debears wrote: Your responses were wifom or weren't actual defenses + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2013 12:12 jaybrundage wrote: @Debears Oats has pretty much defended me satisfactory. He knows the best lynch Na pretty well :o. The pre association case before a flip was pretty bad I have to stop doing that. If you have anymore questions or concerns plz address them to me. If not let's lynch Phagga. @CC You know I'm tempting man. Im the tastiest pie eva @Phagga I agree completely on the vote switch looking scummy. Also his hesitantness to vote on VE after the case and then the flip flop looks bad On February 20 2013 10:24 jaybrundage wrote: But what if its my town meta too look like scum. But regardless your scum this game. So no use talking about it. On February 20 2013 10:34 jaybrundage wrote: I did have reason for voting VE. It wasn't a big case but I stated my intent here. He wiggles his way out of Sloosh's questions and then throws dirt on Sloosh for no reason. The bolded is my response. Also If i was Snarf's teammate I would of bussed him reallly realllly hard. I think that bussing is a tatic in mafia that people are hesitant to abuse. I would of bussed Snarfs sooo hard if i was mafia it would of not even been funny How is any of that a fucking rebuttal? "My meta is scummy" "I would've bussed snarfs" "Town can have faulty reasoning" All are piss poor excuses for a scum. Die scum Hey look scum doesn't read!!!! | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 22 2013 03:50 yamato77 wrote: If he honestly believed Snarfs was mafia and wanted to convince town, he could have done so instead of voting JX day 1 like all of town wanted. He did not take any strong stances at all. That is not "pushing your reads". Snarfs, similarly, didn't exactly make a concerted effort to get VE lynched, ever. When he was getting lynched day 3, did he even come into the thread and argue for VE's lynch? Why not? Wouldn't mafia benefit from lynching town VE in that situation? It could have happened, but it didn't. It's not enough to say that the double bus is good evidence, because it's not. It was weak on the part of VE, and Snarfs didn't even try to get VE lynched over himself. I've been over this. There's no reason not to lynch him. You make it sound as though you should only push 1 person all of day 1. And that is completely wrong. If you have a scumread, and no one will lynch them, then you keep looking for scum and save the case for another day. Snarfs lynch had no momentum at all day 1. When someone has a third of their filter about someone being scum, then that is a concentrated effort READ THIS http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690&user=121695 | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
Why are you refusing to read and refute my jay case with specific evidence? Why are you refusing to look at the context of day 1? | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
Why are you and me the only ones talking here? Why did those 3 immediately settle on ve without cases and then not contributr st all? Wake up | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
Yamato you can't deny what's right there in my cases, that's why you wont refute them This loss is on you and cc | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 22 2013 04:29 yamato77 wrote: I did make a gigantic fucking case about VE. I will not listen to anything else today. You cannot discredit me or WIFOM anything about what VE's done because I'm right, and the townies following me know I'm right. I know the mafia team, and you guys are showing your true colors today, just as I expected. But more in that later, if you don't just concede. Yeah and I just made a huge counter case showing actual context refuting your case. You just refuse to reply to anythung in it specifically because you are wrong and know it Fuck this you are actually scum yamato. Maybe phagga is town after all | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 21 2013 02:55 yamato77 wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Yamato77 You kill me, and Sloosh leads the lynch on VE tomorrow. That's the plan, don't fuck it up. On February 21 2013 06:35 BioSC wrote: Day 6 Vote Count: slOosh (2): yamato77 (5): Mr. Cheesecake, VisceraEyes, debears, slOosh, yamato77 Deadline in ~4.5 hours. jaybrundage has yet to vote. Currently yamato77 is set to be lynched. Yeah that's martyring. He was behind by 2 in the votecount anyways. Everyone was set on lynching him. What does acting the martyr do to harm him as scum? | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 22 2013 08:15 yamato77 wrote: If I'm mafia, make a case. Where's the counter case to mine on jay being scum? Where's the counter case to mine on VE being town You don't have any. Because you are scum and wrong Besides, I don't need to convince you. I need to convince CC and Phagga. CC and Phagga, you need to acknowledge my cases on Jay and VE. You also need to acknowledge that you would listen to a Yamato case. I'm not going to make a case just for the scum team to laugh at while they win. I refuse to put forth the effort unless you two agree to it. | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 22 2013 14:02 yamato77 wrote: CC put your money where your mouth is and lynch one of debears/VE. Seriously you scum really want VE and me gone badly. Hell, I know we are good as town and all, but this is just stupid But for real, CC READ MY CASES DAMNIT. Why in the hell do you want to lynch phagga over jay??? Why???? | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 22 2013 14:06 jaybrundage wrote: Do you always need to add that. Your so violent. Its like you have turrets. Split personally CC. "Yea Jay is prolly town, But if your scum I fucking hate you and you can burn in hell you fucking mutha fucking piece of shit bitch ass ugly looking pussy stinking ball fucking dick sucking fugly looking smelly hoboing asswiping jerk off." In other news I fail to see town reasoning behind not revealing your town and scum reads. I stated it once and ill state it again we need transparency as town How about you make an actual case? You seem to have real trouble doing that this game | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 22 2013 14:07 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Because who is Jay scum with? Phagga perhaps, maybe Oats? I doubt it. But Phagga is in that scumteam still. I soft-confirmed Jay a while ago, sorry you can't understand that. You have not mentioned my cases once. You have not refuted them. You're full of it. Jay is scum. Open your eyes. Jay/Yam yam/Oats | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 22 2013 14:09 Oatsmaster wrote: ##Unvote Vote: debears how do you handle the pressure? Voting at this point is not about "pressure". It's about voting your scumreads. If you vote me, state why with detailed reasoning. It's pretty simply. It's fucking lylo, and I'm the only one who's made a case today. How about that? | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 22 2013 14:12 jaybrundage wrote: You act like your this great big town player with logical case. But if you cant see that Yamato isn't scum then your bad at this game. Why is this post addressed to me like you know I'm town? If you thought I was scum, you would say "your yamato scum read is scummy as shit for this reason:" and then follow it up with reasoning. Why are you lecturing me on my reads? Why do you treat me like I'm town? Cuz you are scum | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 22 2013 14:14 Oatsmaster wrote: hehe its cute that you think that making a case means that you are town. Making a case with detailed reasoning that hasn't been refuted does yes. Prove me wrong scum. Oh wait, you can't | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 22 2013 14:15 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Hey Debears, How dost thou think of a Phagga lynch today? Wouldn't it be just Dandel to suggest? No. Lynch scum. Lynch Jay | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
| ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 22 2013 14:22 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: BUT JAY IS SCUM WHERE ARE YOU GOING I'M NOT GOING ANYWHERE. I'M JUST LETTING YOU KNOW I'M MAD WHY ARE YOU PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 22 2013 14:29 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok, there are 4 town and 3 scum. Me and CC and yamato are town. WHO IS THE LAST ONE. *raises hand* | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
Or how about lynch the surefire scum jay? | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
| ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
| ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
Vote jay on the wagon of justice!!!! Don't let scum win in silence! | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 23 2013 10:46 VisceraEyes wrote: I'll do this though. ##Unvote ##Vote: phagga I'm trying to save you damnit and save this game. Vote jay | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
| ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
| ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
| ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
| ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
| ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
Improving is fine with veteran players, but this game was hard enough as it was with coming in late and nks :/ Anyways gj town on sticking to your guns | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 23 2013 11:16 Keirathi wrote: I'm not so sure. Imagine both you and debears had been pretty adamant about VE being scum. Then Oats and jay come in and sheep the cases without much input. You have everyone alive aside from VE voting for VE. How do the townies figure out the townies voting VE from the scum voting VE when VE flips? I think you guys just thought you were in a better position than you really were, and when thread sentiment turned against VE, you all got caught with your pants down. Well a big chunk of my plan was sloosh being alive and yamato dead. But, VE kinda messed that one up :/ | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
On February 23 2013 11:20 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: It's hard to say. The way things were, a lot of shit went down when I was away. Sentiment went from Jay / Phagga being scum at lylo to VE being indisputably scum.72 hour night periods with nominations are just terrible. So I just played along with whatever it was debears / ve were doing. Yeah I wasn't there at the sloosh lynch either :/ IRL betrays me again | ||
|
debears
United States2516 Posts
Namely do it in a Jay is scum because 1) H'es scum 2) I couldn't get him mislynched 3) He's a maverick introduction. then, section the body of the cases by the 1, 2, and 3 in bold and underline | ||
| ||
