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Morning/afternoon all~
First of all: ##Vote: Double Lynch I hadn't actually considered not using the double lynch until austin commented on it, but I think it's a good idea. Lynches are our only guaranteed means of catching scum (guaranteed meaning we always have one, not with 100% accuracy). If we can double up on them, I say we do it. He also raises a good point, that there's always the possibility that the mayor will be killed and we'll lose our extra votes. I like our mayor's votes.
Second: @annul: FiveTouch has said he's not Palmar multiple times. You've admitted he has a different posting style.
On January 23 2013 20:57 annul wrote:
what the fuck is "IC"
And this took me a while to remember, but "IC" is innocent child, I think.
Do you have a reason for voting Dearestsnot other than omgus or his personal attacks? I know you said you'd "eventually" explain it. So... please? :D
Third: Regarding Annul, I don't feel he's behaving as scummy as others believe. I wouldn't really call his most recent play "pro-town", but based on the only game I've played with him (Liquid City Mafia), he reacts severely (some would say childishly) to personal attacks. I'm not normally one to delve too deeply into past games (primarily because it takes me so damn long to read, haha), but I did it in this case because I felt something was off about my own impression of him. Turns out I was thinking of him as Acrofales from Acme Mini Mafia, which naturally skewed my view a bit. In any case, based on what I believe I understand of him from LCM, his current actions are understandable from a town annul's POV.
Additionally, I kind of agree with what sandroba said about him earlier. There are a few posts he made that make me feel he's town. Long story short, see more evidence at the moment of angry, unappreciated town annul than scum annul.
Of course, now that I've decided I don't like an annul lynch I should put another one up in its place. I'll get to thinking about that, haha.
Anyone who played in/obsed LCM, was annul's play unusual for him that game? Or anyone who feels like taking a look at his filter from that game, can you point out distinct differences between his play both games?
@yamato:
Why the unexplained unvote? You were dead set on an annul lynch.
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On January 24 2013 04:10 Vivax wrote:Scum Yamato, british empire mm+ Show Spoiler +On January 08 2013 11:41 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 11:27 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 08 2013 11:19 yamato77 wrote:CC's defense of his admittedly scummy okay this game is this: On January 08 2013 05:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 08 2013 05:04 Hapahauli wrote:On January 08 2013 04:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 08 2013 04:31 Hapahauli wrote:
In school right now - interested to hear a reply to dp's case, as well as scumreads In terms of DP's case.. It's alright. He's wrong, but I'm pretty scummy and much of the argument does hold water. However, I'm fairly disinterested with the pressure on me right now. I don't think I'll be lynched tomorrow, and I won't sit here and waste time deflecting every point brought against me. We can all settle on the fact that I'm super scummy right now, and that's fine with me. I would like you to be concerned, because I'm interested in hearing you defend what looks like a reasonable case against you. His main point is that I just "heap shit on weak players". I don't know how you'd like me to defend that, because it's true. Some people need shit heaped on them to start doing stuff. Most of it is based on my shitty stream post, which, as all indicates, heaps shit on players. I heap some shit here and there, it's all fine. I want answers. And if you have to dig your way out that's perfectly fine with me. The thread has been pathetically inactive for how long the game has been going. If I have to make myself seem scummy to generate some sort of response, well here we have it. Problem is, I haven't heard from players that are really concerning like SP or Yamato. He says he has to be scummy because its the only way to move the thread forward. Again, how is this indicative of a town mindset? If he's town, why does he want to intentionally look scummy so that town wastes time and effort looking at him? No, he's much more likely to be scum baiting town into lynching him while thinking they won't because "scum wouldn't look so scummy". Furthermore, how is his play supposed to generate useful discussion? This whole post looks like post-hoc rationalization, a trademark of scum behavior. If he wanted to move the thread forward meaningfully, why didn't he do so by actually making substantiated cases on his reads with evidence to back up his cutesy one-liners? Because he's full of shit and he knows it. It took you an hour to dig up that? I am disappoint. If you really thought I was scum you would have had that in 10 minutes tops. Oh, and you seemed to have missed the part where I said I wasn't intentionally looking scummy, it was just a bi-product of my shenanigans to get answers. You know, the post after that in my filter. Try harder please, Yamato. Why am I scummy? This is just an extension of the "You aren't promoting useful discussion" argument. Excuse me for having other things to do in my life besides prove to town that you are scum. Are you going to do anything today besides defend yourself? Poorly,I might add. I bring up plenty of points besides just the useful discussion point. You cannot deny it looks like straight up post-hoc rationale. You didn't intend to look scummy with your shit but now that you do and you realize people see it that way you're making up bullshit excuses for your shit play. I'm dine with reading your useless posts. It is in town's best interest to see you hang. ##Vote: Mr Cheesecake On January 08 2013 07:48 yamato77 wrote:Is your only response to my suspicion of you "lol"? Let's say I vote you tomorrow with case attached, are you going to just lol that too? Fucking useless. On January 06 2013 19:02 yamato77 wrote:
Xatalos what the fuck is that post?
How is Shiao voting for a lurker who eventually got replaced scummy? He wants him to be more active, and somehow that's scum motivated?
His stances are not weak. He's been putting pressure on me since he made the post, and he wants to do so to you. It's not like he's just saying shit to say it.
And then this gem
"I guess it's about time to finally cast a vote"
Or in other words:
"I'm going to put this riiiiight here. Hopefully town doesn't think I'm scummy for this!"
That shit is weak, bro. On December 21 2012 06:07 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 06:06 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Of course I'm going to shit on the people voting for me, because I'm town and most of them are lacking justification or are just voting for idiotic reasons. It's pretty frustrating to have to argue against your lynch when half the justification behind it is because Palmar said so. I told you why I'm voting for you and your responses didn't help anything. I have plenty of reason. Other people may have read this and thought the same things. Why is sheeping people with good reads a bad thing anyway? On December 21 2012 06:11 yamato77 wrote:
Convince me on Vivax then. If he's so scummy make an updated case with more content. All you've done is post your read and then ask everyone else what they thought of your read. That doesn't feel like scum hunting to me. On December 21 2012 06:19 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 06:10 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On December 21 2012 06:06 yamato77 wrote:On December 21 2012 06:02 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On December 21 2012 05:57 yamato77 wrote:
Also if you're going to pick a target to counter wagon with your "This is who I would kill tomorrow when I flip town" idea, you really shouldn't pick someone like Palmar. I'm far more likely to believe him today than you. That being said, if you somehow flip town I will certainly kill Palomar tomorrow.
But if you want to not get lynched today you need to do better than that. Vivax was a good start but you aren't convincing enough with this "LOOK AT MY VIVAX POST GUYS HE'S TOTES SCUM" and then pointing your finger at Palmar immediately afterward. Are you dumb, or do you just not read? That wasn't my idea, that was Toad asking me a question and me answering. Also, you're contradicting yourself. Toad asked me when I flipped town who town should kill tomorrow. I said Palmar. You just called me out for saying that, and then you said that when I flip town, you'll kill Palmar tomorrow. What the hell? I have not said once that we need to lynch Palmar today, you guys are acting fucking stupid. So then you're just calling Palmar suspicious all the time just for shits and giggles? Because if you don't want to vote for him then that means you're just blowing hot air which is exactly what I've said you were doing. Holy. Shit. I'm calling him suspicious because I think he's fucking suspicious. I said that if he keeps being suspicious, we lynch him. It's other people who keep bringing that point up and asking me to elaborate on it. Are you not allowed to think people are suspicious without voting for them? I mean, you're voting for me, but you said WBG is scum too, but you're not voting for WBG right now, so obviously you must be full of crap, right? The differ pence is focus. You keep saying Vivax is scum but you've spent a lot more time discrediting Palmer than pushing your read on Vivax. You are not scum hunting. You are throwing shit at a town player. This is my point. I'm not being hypocritical because my focus is squarely set on you. You're scum, I'm voting for you, and I'm pushing my read and defending the case. You are doing none of these things. Wiggles was really mafia in this game when yamato was talking to him. As you see, two different styles of talking to his scumreads. But check his meta for yourself guys.
Hmmm... I'm in class at the moment, but this is interesting. I'll take a better look at yamato once I'm home.
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Back home 
Regarding Yamato: I had town on yamato before Vivax posted his town/scum comparison, but his post did convince me to take a closer look at his meta. The followup from many players in the game who have actually played with yamato before (I don't believe I have...) saying that he's clearly town by his meta relieves me of that burden.
Regarding Annul: Thanks dearestsnot for laying out your thoughts on him like that. I see where you're coming from now. I still think he's not the best lynch today, and I'd like to see more out of him. The way he was acting at the end made me feel like he had something to reveal to prove he's town. That may not be the case, but we'll see when he starts posting again.
Regarding Oats: Much the way I felt about prplhz, I feel about Oats. It's not that their situations were necessarily similar. But while I, myself, haven't picked up on any particular scumminess on my own, when I read what certain people say about why he's scum, I find myself agreeing with them.
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And yeah, looking at anyone in the game as though you're 100% sure they're scum is a guaranteed way to blind yourself to their true alignment. My case against thrawn and kush in acme mini mafia can attest to that =/
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On January 24 2013 08:06 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 07:58 mkfuba07 wrote:Back home Regarding Yamato: I had town on yamato before Vivax posted his town/scum comparison, but his post did convince me to take a closer look at his meta. The followup from many players in the game who have actually played with yamato before (I don't believe I have...) saying that he's clearly town by his meta relieves me of that burden. So you didn't take a closer look at his meta, you will just believe what others said about it? If you did, can you give us an own conclusion? Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 07:58 mkfuba07 wrote:
Regarding Oats: Much the way I felt about prplhz, I feel about Oats. It's not that their situations were necessarily similar. But while I, myself, haven't picked up on any particular scumminess on my own, when I read what certain people say about why he's scum, I find myself agreeing with them. Not so fast, expand on these points. Be precise about why you think he's scum please.
No, I didn't take a closer look at his meta. I would have done so, but I respect FT's insight in the matter. There's also the fact that reading through at least two of his games would take me hours, and it's likely to turn up as little more than "he was aggressive there" and "he was less aggressive there". While I admit that what you posted swayed me, what I've heard from FT, as well as my feelings about yamato prior to your post, are enough for me to plant him rather firmly as town.
As for why I believe oats is scum, I'll get a more detailed list of reasons shortly (shortly could be a while XD).
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On January 24 2013 08:23 grush57 wrote:
Also whether or not Vivax's reads are bad, I don't think he is scum.
Agreed.
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On January 24 2013 08:18 Vivax wrote:
No one interested in FT masons?
*snip*
I'm interested, but I'm not going to ask him to out two masons, both of whom he thinks are town, just to sate my curiosity.
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On January 24 2013 08:30 Vivax wrote:
Hey grush, what did you want to achieve by contacting a town yamato and then doing almost nothing?
Any more conversations?
@ mkfuba
Do you have a read on gonzaw?
I thought he was town most of the way through D1 iirc (I believe I even said I would be willing to vote him for mayor after FT or austin), but I haven't given him too much thought since then. I'll get a better read out after I've pinpointed what I find most compelling about FT's case against oats.
Actually have to run to the store now. Updates will be delayed, but I'll try try try to get them in before I get to bed tonight.
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To Vivax, regarding Oats:
The first issue raised with oats, I believe, was his unnecessary defense of JX. I didn't find this particularly convincing, but it made me a bit suspicious. He was still rather null imo, but my attention was drawn. After that, it kind of steadily increased in scumminess with each thing FT mentioned. Oats bending peoples' words for unknown reasons, showing evidence of not having read the thread, possible voting reasoning contradictions (stutters vs prplhz). I somewhat dismissed most of it, because I could see myself doing these things accidentally as town (in fact, I later felt like I kind of unnecessarily defended JX myself). I also, generally speaking, tend to give the benefit of the doubt. So whenever someone raises a point, I'll kind of naturally give more weight to the defense. However, when I couple the BOTD with the fact that my feelings regarding oats kept inching towards scum, the evidence for scum outweighs the BOTD I always feel.
On January 24 2013 06:51 FiveTouch wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 06:37 DearestSnot wrote:
well if we're lynching Oats then I'm not going to oppose it. I'm probably the only player who believes that he's town, so I'm willing to just let him die.
There was a time not so long ago that I would probably have defended him from the lynch but it's just not worth it :p The problem with Oats is that he just lies or contradicts himself repeatedly. I can't reconcile it with him being town at all. Here's me pressuring him in obviously quite a serious manner: Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 23:48 FiveTouch wrote:On January 23 2013 23:47 Oatsmaster wrote:lol Still under the spell of returning to mafia :D I only played the game for 72 hours so it barely counts  What counts is that you were immediately suspicious of Mocsta in the game you just finished playing, and in general you were suspicious of many players Day 1. Which is the complete opposite of your attitude this game. He defends himself from what I said: Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 23:51 Oatsmaster wrote:More players/better players. I can honestly say I thought that in the Newbie game I would be one of the town leaders Here, I shy.  So the reason that he's not suspicious of players this game, completely unlike his most recent game, is that he's shy, he's taking a backseat. Except he's now asserting he's actually more confident: Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 00:40 Oatsmaster wrote:
Mocsta,
I have become more confident to pressure people.
Uhuh, so other than the start of the game, which was poor play which I already addressed,
Wouldnt you say im more confident than in my Chrono game? And that him being shy is a joke: Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 00:50 Oatsmaster wrote:
Cant a guy try to make a joke and be cute about it? Apparently not.
Anyway, gonna sleep now.
Vivax, please think before you post. So him being shy is a joke. So, back to my original, valid point - why is Oatsmaster not suspicious of people this game and pointing fingers and making cases? It can't be because he's shy, because that was a joke. But then, in fact, there's no answer for it at all and the point stands. His whole play this game is marred by contradictions such as these, and his meta heavily supports him being mafia.
This is the post that finally significantly convinced me, and made me put my thoughts down in writing. It's an inconsistency that I believe indicates a scum trying to piece together the lies he was required to make to account for his previous scummy play. It's kind of a grand conclusion that wraps everything up with a nice little red bow.
All of that being said, I think that dearestsnot raises a good point. It might be best to let oats live in any case, if we have a better (or even possibly slightly worse) scum read to go off of. On that note, I'm going to take a closer look at gonzaw, chenizu, and broodking. At the moment, my read of gonzaw is still the same as before (was town most of d1, haven't paid much attention since), chenizu is an enigma, and I'd kind of like to know more from the people he's actually spent time with throughout the game (as he doesn't seem to have spent as much time in the main thread as apparently expected), and broodking is slightly scummy simply by merit of his relative absence. Of the three, I would be most willing to vote for BKE at the moment.
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I think it's pretty clear we should lynch gonzaw after this revelation.
##Vote: gonzaw
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Vivax, what they were doubting was that you got a check stating how he used his jack powers both days.
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On January 25 2013 07:09 austinmcc wrote:
Thread got so dead and I don't want to spam it up.
Is anyone around that isn't Vivax or Acro? Is anyone interested in considering a frame?
I've got to run to dinner soon, may or may not be back before lynch, but I keep refreshing and am getting this sinking feeling that everyone slapped a vote down and zoned out, waiting for the lynch.
I'm here. Just... thinking.
I feel like it would be kind of ridiculous for Vivax to be lying about his role at this point in the game. Most people seem to think he's town, despite his play, myself included. I still think he is. But imagining him as scum fakeclaiming to lie like this after most of the thread finds him town is... doubtful. So I'd say that I don't think vivax is scum.
A framer, I suppose, is a possibility. I considered it lightly, and dismissed it because I found the role itself to be an unlikely one used to frame. Now I'm giving it more consideration. The possibilities are: (1) gonzaw is a scum jack + mason who didn't use his mason power for two days, and (2) mafia, whoever they are, have decided that jack + mason is the best frame they could give someone. This has me going around in circles, because it comes back to the question of "would mafia not use their mason powers for some reason?" If (1), then why would he not have used the power? If (2), then why did scum think we would believe that he was a mason that didn't use his power?
Now here's what makes me believe (1) over (2). If he was framed, then scum's plan has succeeded. They have a red check, on someone that many people were questioning throughout the day. They, for some reason, framed him with a role that would be most questionable, but no one has explained the answer to the question. It feels too half-assed for a frame that succeeded in all matters of chance related to it. They framed gonzaw, Vivax investigated gonzaw. These were the variables, and they fell properly. Why hasn't the nail been driven in?
...Though I suppose it could be meant simply as a distraction from one of the other top lynch contenders during D1/N1. But if so, why choose such a silly role? Say he's framer, and there's far less doubt.
On that note, Do all millers show up as goons to DT checks, or are they assigned roles as well?
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What do you think about what I've said? I can't answer why he didn't use his mason power. I'm neither scum nor a mason. Nor have I ever been scum nor a mason. But I've thought it through, and unless he is another miller AND millers get randomized roles, I think him being scum is the most likely situation.
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On January 25 2013 08:37 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 08:32 austinmcc wrote:On January 25 2013 08:30 Stutters695 wrote:
I've considered the possibility of a frame but it feels like an awful lot has to line up for that to be true. Vivax would have to have picked the same target as the farmer first of all which is possible but unlikely and we won't learn much of anything in addition to rushing a lynch. Why didn't gonzaw, as a mason, mason people? How would you know, as a townie, that gonzaw didn't mason people?
Pretty sure he said he didn't mason anyone.
If he masoned anyone, they would know he is mason, and still haven't said anything. This means he masoned two scum, and proceeded to lie about it.
This question is ridiculous.
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On January 25 2013 08:41 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 08:37 Vivax wrote:On January 25 2013 08:32 austinmcc wrote:On January 25 2013 08:30 Stutters695 wrote:
I've considered the possibility of a frame but it feels like an awful lot has to line up for that to be true. Vivax would have to have picked the same target as the farmer first of all which is possible but unlikely and we won't learn much of anything in addition to rushing a lynch. Why didn't gonzaw, as a mason, mason people? How would you know, as a townie, that gonzaw didn't mason people? Why would you assume from someone who should be most likely scum from your perspective that he didn't mason anyone just cause he didn't say it? Or the people masoned didn't?
I don't really understand the question, but right now he's being lynched. If he is scum, and he masoned someone, then proceeded to lie about it, then there should be at least one townie among the two people he masoned to come out and say he's lying. Otherwise he masoned two of his own scumbuddies...
If he is town and he's lying about masoning, then he's not really playing to his wincon, is he?
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I've gotta catch my train. I'll try to catch wifi somewhere, but I might not be back online in time for the lynch.
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Sorry for my absence recently. There's been a lot more traveling and appointments than I expected this week. I'll try to convince those of you who find me scummy otherwise over the next day. I don't know how much of a meta it can give you, or even if it will help you, but I was mafia my first game I ever played here, though it only lasted about a day before restarting. Marv told me once that he knew my scum meta based on that one page of quotes (but refused to tell me what it was >:| ), so maybe someone else will find something they don't see this game.
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##Vote: Broodkingexe
Guess I'm looking at yamato and mocsta today. I'm excited~
On January 26 2013 12:55 yamato77 wrote:
Do I need to explain why I'm not mafia to everyone in the thread or can we all agree to not be stupid and lynch BKE/Chez?
Please explain :D
@Vivax, did you vote yamato based on a DT check? Because announcing to the thread who you're investigating is a good way to get them to frame him. Just sayin'.
Also, not releasing what you found is... ugh...
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On January 26 2013 13:05 yamato77 wrote:
Oh, looks like Chez is suddenly not a good lynch if I think Annul is town.
Hm. That gives me something to do. What are the chances Annul and Chez are both mafia? That claim then ensures that Chez lives for one more cycle and Annul lives until lylo.
Unless we lynch him to find out if he's lying. It'd be a triple lynch that way, no? I like that idea.
Hmmm... interesting. However, I don't think annul is scum, so I'm averse to the idea of lynching him <.<
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I didn't say that. I'm looking at the possibilities outlined by toad and DS. They were pretty significantly convinced that BKE and chezinu are scum, and that leaves the three of us from their list. I know that one of those three is not mafia (that is me). The remaining two are you and mocsta.
I'd actually like to know what FT thinks of their conclusion.
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EPT
