Dessert Mini Mafia

On January 13 2013 12:40 kushm4sta wrote:

dumb question

@thrawn I didn't even read his filter and come to that conclusion. I just remember it from reading through the thread. I will find examples tho inc.

On January 16 2013 07:59 thrawn2112 wrote:
it's not a scumslip. what happened is that LM thought that he had been caught in a scumslip, and then lied to try and make the 'scumslip' not seem like a scumslip. his attitude towards super doesn't make sense either

On January 16 2013 08:11 jaybrundage wrote:


Or he just misread it. While i think is reply is not mean in anyway. I dont find it scummy to talk civilly to players regardless of there alignment.

And Iamperfection (ziggler) can you give your thoughts on (grush,Xatalos)

On January 15 2013 04:17 Xatalos wrote:
Unrelated to the topics at hand, but Sloosh, did you forget about me? You made your entrance to the thread by posting a big case on me, I posted a big reply, and you ignored it. It seems like you went after Prom and forgot what you said about me. What's the deal?

On January 16 2013 09:06 wherebugsgo wrote:
##vote slOosh

This vote is not moving until you give me your scumreads and reasons.

If I do not believe you, then you will die today.

On January 16 2013 09:53 wherebugsgo wrote:
auto townread = I almost didn't bother carefully reading their posts.

One thing I kept in my head about slOosh was that he had two pushes, Prom and Xatalos. He dropped Xatalos rather quickly and outside of those two players he has had no comments on anything. His push on Prom was also pretty bad.

There has to be a reason super died. Super was the only person who had a public scumread on slOosh. Outside of that he called Lazer scum and he called Zentor scum.

I think slOosh needs to do something though, because if you haven't noticed, he's been laying a bit lower than what I'd feel if he were town.

On January 16 2013 10:58 slOosh wrote:
Might as well come out with it all.

I planned on testing out my read of WBG by presenting my read on hopeless. I think hopeless is scum, and wanted to push him today and gauge WBG's reactions accordingly, especially since it seemed WBG was showing, what I perceive as, some unwarranted leniency to hopeless. Of course this is something characterized under tone, feel etc. which is why I wanted to see his response to better gauge it.

I will now field any and all questions.

On January 17 2013 04:44 Hapahauli wrote:


Seriously? Geez that's imbalanced as fuck.

On January 17 2013 04:47 slOosh wrote:
My point is that trying to figure out the whole scum team when we don't even have concrete OP information on the number of scum is a futile exercise, of which more harm will come than good.

On January 17 2013 09:08 Hopeless1der wrote:
Question the first:
Why did Hapa vote for Ruuch?

Question the second:
Why did I vote for Ruuch?

---

@Lamp: Do you find my read of you suspicious, based on the posting, and circumstances surrounding the replacement, of Ruuch? By which I mean, do you think it is conceivable that I would arrive at a townread of you based on the limited information available?

On January 15 2013 09:24 Ruuch wrote:


A quick google-search tells me that "scumclaim" is when a scum player basically admits defeat and reveals that they're scum, is that right? (I really dislike the use of the word "scum" in this context, but I suppose theres not much I can do to change everyones old habits)

I assume you're referring to my "hornets nest" post. If so, could you elaborate a little, since I don't see how that's a scumclaim. I was simply thinking out loud about. Hornets in this case being experienced mafia players in general.

On January 17 2013 09:51 jaybrundage wrote:


Also Ziggler why did you decide to vote SlOosh over say WBG or LM or Hopeless?

On January 17 2013 10:14 slOosh wrote:

I'll talk. What makes me scum, and what makes me a better choice than hopeless?

On January 17 2013 10:26 Hopeless1der wrote:


Primarily based on Ruuch's limited interactions with the thread.

On January 17 2013 10:24 slOosh wrote:

So I'll put you down as you think both of us are scum and don't have a preference.

Everyone should state clearly what they think when they make the vote.
Either X is scum and Y is scum too,
Or X is town and Y is scum.

With a polarized lynch such as this, even though it may in a mislynch it can garner valuable information for town and puts immense pressure on scum.

On January 17 2013 11:26 Hopeless1der wrote:

Sloosh, LM, Hapa

On January 17 2013 11:29 Hopeless1der wrote:
Pushing me despite acknowledging more recent examples of my current play being indicative of me being town, claming our votes on Ruuch being equally scummy, when they are quite clearly not and again, on the assumption that you are town, his voteswitch looks terrible.

On January 17 2013 11:55 Hopeless1der wrote:
Because he had a scumread on prom and dropped it for no good reason.

On January 15 2013 09:07 Hapahauli wrote:
Welp. Sorry prome =/

Ruuch, you need to tell us why that was not a scumclaim.

On January 17 2013 12:41 wherebugsgo wrote:
man when someone votes 2 minutes before the deadline the proper thing to do is POLICY LYNCH THEM.

It doesn't matter what their appearance was before that, because a lurker who has never played before can either be town OR scum. They are only more likely to be town by virtue of chance.

On January 18 2013 01:38 thrawn2112 wrote:
kush and lazermonkey are both scum btw

On January 18 2013 04:09 thrawn2112 wrote:


which is more likely.. that he's town and has no reads or that he;'s scum?

On January 18 2013 04:31 thrawn2112 wrote:


you just said it's more liekly that he's town for doing that. so which is it? what's your non coinflip related read on lm?

On January 18 2013 05:19 grush57 wrote:
hahahahaha

On January 18 2013 07:38 wherebugsgo wrote:
also note that neither of them are around right now.

I know Prom wasn't around either but he actually said in thread that he'd be at work before leaving. (something I had missed earlier) Neither slOosh nor Hopeless have taken an active role in either

a.) defending themselves

or

b.) trying to find scum.

This is, IMO, pretty uncharacteristic of BOTH of their town games. slOosh as town is one of the better players in the game, and I know from cohosting with Hopeless and playing with him in past games that he sometimes has similar ideas to me when it comes to scumhunting and playing. So why are they both playing so out of character?

I AM glad, though, that we were able to get the vote so close. Even if we lynch wrongly today the votes and the changes should at least give a better idea of how to proceed.

On January 18 2013 07:39 thrawn2112 wrote:
my memories of playing with town hopeless is that I yell at him a lot for not scumhunting.

imo LM is such obvious scum, idk how people aren't voting for him. Prom was lynched instead of Lazer (i'm not counting any votes that happened after ruuch's entrance) and LM had 2 confirmed town (sloosh and prom) voting for him. lets lynch LM please

On January 18 2013 07:45 Hopeless1der wrote:
I'd hardly call that instant, but okay. P.S. Hapa is scum

On January 18 2013 07:47 Lazermonkey wrote:
You do realize BOTH hopeless and SlOosh came back the EXACT same minute?

On January 18 2013 07:49 wherebugsgo wrote:
yes, let's speculate about an SK for no reason at all...

let's see what happens if I do this:

##unvote
##vote slOosh

On January 18 2013 07:55 slOosh wrote:
Oh what the heck?

On January 18 2013 08:22 slOosh wrote:
Because I never carry notes and I have to go searching for filters. It's coming.

On January 19 2013 06:19 MrZentor wrote:
As town, I'm only active when town needs me to be or when I disagree with the lynch.

Neither of those things has happened, so of course I'm not going to be spamming up the thread.

On January 19 2013 09:53 Hopeless1der wrote:

Scumteam:
Hapahauli
Xatalos
Lazermonkey

On January 19 2013 11:54 grush57 wrote:


this guy is scum.
Also because hopeless is too...

##Vote: Hopeless1dr

On January 20 2013 00:39 Hopeless1der wrote:

Yes

On January 20 2013 04:13 Hopeless1der wrote:


You've dismissed my hapa read on the basis of withholding a roleblock. Then again, where does the framer fit into all this (I also forgot about the Framer being possible in my setup speculation)? Take away the roleblocker and comment on my case against Hapa please.

On January 20 2013 04:18 Hopeless1der wrote:

You said that based on scum holding their roleblock. I've just explained how that isn't necessarily true.

On January 20 2013 04:23 Xatalos wrote:


What do you mean with that by the way?

On January 20 2013 05:57 Hopeless1der wrote:

Yeah thats what we need, more people unwilling to give out reads or put content into the thread. If the town doesn't see fit to request this, they* deserve to lose.
* Disclaimer: Use of the word 'they' referring to the town is in no way, shape, or form indicative of a scumslip. Please fuck off and die if you believe otherwise

MARTYRDOM
I'm not posting again until someone has Hapa address my case against him.

---

@Lazer's vote:
Convenient that my town-meta can't be used to defend me anymore, now that you need to justify a vote on me. You're entire bugs case is associative contingent on me flipping scum (I won't). It's almost worth it to die, with the exception that I don't trust anyone to follow through once they realize you haven't properly hunted scum all game.

On January 20 2013 13:30 grush57 wrote:
Though Hopeless you seem to really try to defend yourself, I don't know if I want to lynch you :'(

On January 20 2013 14:20 Hopeless1der wrote:

No. You'll get a case on Lazer in the morning. After that, you can all go fuck yourselves.

On January 21 2013 03:07 grush57 wrote:
Really no one is doing anything but hopeless :'(

On January 21 2013 04:20 Lazermonkey wrote:
So, people got so excited by the fact that Hopeless did post something at all that they decided to vote me? Hopeless keeps on tunneling me and his case doesn't really bring up any new points so why are you voting me?

On January 21 2013 04:48 wherebugsgo wrote:
Also question: MrZ, why did you swap your vote?

On January 21 2013 06:06 Hopeless1der wrote:
Lazer is scum
I am town

On January 21 2013 08:12 Hopeless1der wrote:
Nah. This town deserves to lose. My filter is still there if you desire the path to victory.

On January 21 2013 08:50 Dandel Ion wrote:
Votecount:

Hopeless1der (5): Hapahauli, Xatalos, jaybrundage, Lazermonkey, wherebugsgo
Lazermonkey (3): Hopeless1der, MrZentor, iamperfection
Hapahauli (1): grush57


Currently, Hopeless1der is set to be lynched!
10 minutes remaining until deadline.

On January 21 2013 05:56 wherebugsgo wrote:
This is actually kind of confusing. If I'm wrong about some of my town reads, it makes Lazer the better lynch by far. Everyone has called both players scum but no one is really willing to defend either of them. On meta they both look bad. They're both easily lynched, though Hopeless seems to be resisting the lynch far more.

Lol there's pros and cons to lynching them both.

Convince me to vote. Most swaying arguments for either side will get my vote. I'll be around till deadline.

On January 21 2013 04:46 wherebugsgo wrote:
I like dis.

The vote separation is really quite interesting. If Hopeless and Lazer are both town then it means nothing, but I don't think that's likely. Seeing as Lazer is the counterwgon to Hopeless it seems unlikely they are both scum too, unless Lazer is goon and Hopeless is RB or something stupid like that.

And if only one of them is scum, the votecounts tell the story!

Hapa, Xata, Jay: thoughts on killing Lazer?

On January 21 2013 13:02 grush57 wrote:
Together iamperfection we will lead town to victory!
FOR STARSENSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On January 21 2013 10:56 Hapahauli wrote:


A lot of my reads were based around Hopeless flipping red, so I have some re-reading to do. Yes you can expect a read-dump towards the end of the day.

On January 22 2013 08:38 Lazermonkey wrote:
Grush, how do you think Xata is 3:party? I'm not even sure it's possible to have two serial killers in this setup. But even if it was possiblee, why haven't we seen more NKs?

On January 22 2013 10:37 wherebugsgo wrote:
I am, but I don't think there's anything really new to discuss.

On January 22 2013 10:50 jaybrundage wrote:

I have a great fucking idea. How about we spam shit up while im here.

WBG thoughts on Iamps suspicious of hapa?

Lamp what do you think of grush as a lynch today?

Both of you whats your guess for the scum team?

Lamp do you think a WBG and Hapa scum team is possible?

WBG and Lamp what are you thoughts on Lazer?

And lol on Lamps comment thats a good point. Hapa WBG and Lamp all are decent players.

Also WBG do you want to lynch Lamp or Lamp2

I I think one of them could be scum the other guys is just an asshole.

On January 22 2013 10:59 jaybrundage wrote:

Lazer has been up for lynch so many times. Do you think hes the scum that keeps getting away? Also what read are you stronger on Lazer or hapa and why.

So you stated you think grush is null. Isn't his inherent lurkyness scummy? Im curious why my read of him differs from yours. You obviously dont think we should lynch him today what makes him a bad candidate?

On January 22 2013 11:17 jaybrundage wrote:

Why not? I could see him as scum. His early game was pretty shitty.

On January 22 2013 11:26 grush57 wrote:
Everyone:
Deep Purple,
Jethro Tull,
or
The Doors

On January 22 2013 11:24 jaybrundage wrote:

Reasoning. I wants it.

Also right you are about voting hapa. Fuck it ill vote him twice.

On January 24 2013 05:07 wherebugsgo wrote:
I went and read Hapa's filter from Mario Mini, and quite honestly iamp I can confidently say you are completely wrong.

He mentions Crossfire maybe...3 times, and all he does is ask people if he's a smurf or what, and then doesn't try to further a read on him. Then, he makes an offhand remark later in the game about something Crossfire did or said. Nothing there.

He doesn't mention his second teammate at all from what I could tell. His biggest concerns were debears, talking to marv, Z-Boson, and some others (yes, he was only alive d1, but still). I was curious to see who his other teammate was, so I went into the endgame and saw djodref. Having read Hapa's filter and small bits and pieces in context of his posts I would never have even guessed djo was playing that game.

I'm pretty confident in light of this that grush is hapa's scumbuddy.

On January 23 2013 05:40 Lazermonkey wrote:
I'm kind of getting to the point where I think he is scum purely by the process of elimination.

Xata is probebly town.
You seem very town.
WBG does look far better than he did before in my eyes. Stuff like Seems to be comming from town. Had he been scum, I think he would've been more inclined to swap over to me. I think that Hopeless last minute post was looking very townie, and if WBG had actually pushed me I very well could've died. After that, we could risk exactly what WBG said. Even if Hopeless would survive today, he would have a hard time surviving tomorrow. And by that time he'd look even worse.

That leaves grush, Jay and Hapa. Atm I think grush is looking the worst, but I'm cool with Hapa lynch as well.

On January 24 2013 09:55 wherebugsgo wrote:
his switch from Hopeless to Hapa still makes absolutely no sense to me. I don't get it at all. It was such a convenient time for him to switch and I think almost everyone at that point perceived Hopeless as looking worse than Hapa.

On January 24 2013 09:58 grush57 wrote:
After you voted Hopeless, I was confident that he was going to get mislynched so I wanted to show that Hapa was scum :D

On January 20 2013 05:29 Lazermonkey wrote:
Hopeless is probebly scum after all... Sure, his play is similar to what it was last game but on the other hand him playing similar to last game when he was town is actually completely irrelevant because it actually doesn't tell us anything about his play as scum. Also, his play overall simply isn't townie at all. His posted some long posts some time ago but the first one was just him echoing what he said D2, Hapa + Lazer are scum. The second one was talking about setup. Why would you as town in this position do something like that? A townie who is just about to die would do ANYTHING to help his team get on the right track and give out all reads because when he flips, everyone will know that what he said was comming from a townie who at least wanted to hunt scum. Him repeating reads isn't helpfull at all. We would go through his filter anyway once he flips and find those reads. With that being said, Hopeless is going to get lynched today it seems, and spending more time explaining why he is scum seems

##Vote: Hopeless

WBG

Wbgs vote pattern yesterday is veeery funky indeed. He voted/unvoted between SlOosh and Hopeless no less than 5(!) times. Let's look a little bit closer at all this.

The first voteAfter this WBG goes on to put HEAVY pressure on SlOosh, points out several things in SlOosh play that makes him scum.

The second vote
While admittedly I think he is getting convinced by the guy he thinks he scum a little bit too fast, I don't really see any problem with this vote. He did state quite explicit that he had Hopeless down as scum.

The third voteNow, this is when things start to get fishy. WBG states that because he read my post about about Hopeless play last game and how its similar to last game, he is now much more inclined to belive that Hopeless looks town, or at least much better. However, I have a hard time thinking this is what actually happend. In last game, all of us three were town. Me and WBG were heavily suspicious of Hopeless that game(WBG filter). Both of us were pushing him hard core. I have a hard time seeing that WBG just forgot all this in a few days and needed my post as a reminder, especially since he seems to be a guy remembering things like this. For example, he was very fast at dissmissing my accusations against Jay PURELY based on meta from another game, a game that was played about a month ago.

Also note how during the time that he voted Hopeless, He doesn't really pressure him at all. He only has one post asking Hopeless about whether or not he is willing to lynch into SlOosh or not. This is in stark difference to when he was pushing SlOosh scum.

The forth vote

Once again, this is a very scummy vote. In just three hours he went from saying that he liked Hopeless posting much more, that he saw similarities to his last game and that SlOosh was scum to the opposite. Hopeless doesn't actually post even once during the time between the third and forth vote. WBG is instead convinced by Hapa's arguments on the issue. During the time between those two votes WBG goes on to say that Hopeless is a good lynch once again. But what happend with Hopeless improved posting? What happend with the meta read that made him look more town? And during this time, WBG still seems convinced that SlOosh is a good lynch, yet he votes Hopeless.

He also tells us to conolidate which is strange because the votecount at this point was looking like this:

The fifth and final vote

Not much to say. WBG doesn't really motivate this swap at all and would he have voted Hopeless, hopeless would've died.

Summary: WBG is flipping his vote like a mad man between Hopeless and SlOosh. However, while he is pushing SlOsh hard, he doesn't push hopeless at all. He even pushes SlOosh while he is voting Hopeless.

As for the last scum, I'm not sure. My best guess at this point is grush because of the simple explanation that I have a town read, albeit not too strong, on every else.

On January 24 2013 10:08 wherebugsgo wrote:
I thought you meant more recently, tbh. That was over 4 days ago.

The upsides to a lazer lynch: he's escaped close lynches already

downsides: there are plenty of sort of vague heuristics that we can apply to his play to call him town.

Why is jay town? Can we answer that question? What has he done?

On January 24 2013 10:17 wherebugsgo wrote:
actually I think I'm just running complicated circles around myself again. I remember why I considered jay town again, despite his inactivity he seems to be up-front in his questions and he seems to at least want to win the game.

Lazer's still not here, and neither is xata.

Let's go back to the simplest explanation I had, and that was in my votecount analysis before my seeding the thread with reads pulled grush out of his inactivity.

if grush left his vote on Lazer over Hopeless on d2 it could have meant Lazer would have died. If grush is scum with Lazer this is a really scary thing to do. Certainly if he places his vote and then moves it inexplicably it doesn't matter, since he's planning on squandering it anyway (as scum.) It makes no sense as town to waste your vote like that EVEN IF you have suddenly changed your mind about Hapa/Hopeless. It only makes sense if you intend on pushing your read to a lynch, but grush was not intending that. He was intending to afk, to leave his vote there, to waste it.

At that point even if one of us wanted to switch off Hopeless onto lazer, Hopeless still would've died because he reached 4 votes first. (it was 5-3-1 at that point)

The only way this makes sense from a town grush perspective is if he thought both Hopeless and Lazer were town, but it's clear by both his votes and his talk that he did not view lazer as town. He's not dumb, he knew the vote was between those 2. It's simply a scum move to waste it by putting it on Hapa, regardless of what we know now about Hapa's alignment.

I'm very tempted to simply go with Occam's Razor here and simply say we should lynch grush and then lazer.

On January 24 2013 10:42 wherebugsgo wrote:


yeah, maybe the simplest explanation in reality is that you weren't thinking. lol.

iamp, when you're back:

do you think scum could have chosen to hold their roleblock after slOosh claimed that Xata is blue? (i.e. Xata is scum)

Right now the two players notably absent from this conversation are Xata and Lazer. Jay was around earlier.

On January 22 2013 14:55 wherebugsgo wrote:
okay so including the RB claim, why would Hapa as scum push Hopeless so hard with not even a shred of a backup plan?

Would a scum really suicidally push a townie that hard? I'm not getting that part at all.

sure, some of his reads look strange in hindsight, after knowing that Hopeless flipped town, but I think you can find town motivation behind most, if not all, of the things that he did. I'm super confused at why a scum, who knows Hopeless is town (and that Hopeless is one of the better players in the game) would just push him so hard for two days straight with not even an ounce of hesitation.

Tunnel-syndrome is almost exclusive to townies. If anyone has seen Hapa play a scum game before in this style I'd love to see it, It is troubling that he didn't do a read-dump and that he's afk now but this is mind boggling to me.

On January 24 2013 23:48 Lazermonkey wrote:
AFAIK, we didn't really conclude Xata being town. But it is very likely due to the fact that he got RB when scum knew there probebly were more blue roles.

On January 25 2013 08:06 Xatalos wrote:
This is Kush's filter from Witchcraft (he was scum): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816&user=200457

Notice the drastic difference from that game to this game. He has a much more serious, cautious and diplomatic attitude to everything. But here... He just didn't seem to care if he appeared scummy or not, doing all kinds of scummy things and otherwise gathering negative attention.

On January 25 2013 08:17 Xatalos wrote:


You mean put more stock into Lazer's actions? I guess that's fair, since Kush was forced out of the game early D1, but it's hard to shake the initial townread I had on Kush.

On January 25 2013 08:23 Lazermonkey wrote:
Okay, seems I cannot sleep so I figured that I could just as well stay up untill deadline.

The case you are refering to his case on grush, right? He asked people what they thought of it once IIRC... And he never even voted grush.

Comments on my case on him? Your obviously disagreeing with it but I'd like to see exactly why.

On January 25 2013 08:33 grush57 wrote:
Welp gg, gj scum. Maybe Lazermonkey + Xatalos? Idk but I played bad this game and they have a pretty good case.