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Hapahauli
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Hapahauli
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For those of you who haven't played with me, I'm always down for lynching me some lurkers. Discuss. | ||
Hapahauli
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On January 13 2013 08:51 MrZentor wrote: And why isn't Hapa spamming up the thread yet? That's weird... Didn't expect the game to start tonight o_O I'll get right on that one though: + Show Spoiler + In all seriousness, I'd rather NOT have to be the one spamming this game. My last two games (Witchcraft Mini + British Mini), I was 33% of the thread in content and driving the discussion for the entirety of the game. I don't mind repeating it this time around, but it's much better for the town not to rely on one person for activity. The early burst of activity is quite good news though ^^ | ||
Hapahauli
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Are you a new guy 'round these parts, or do you have any previous mafia experience? | ||
Hapahauli
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On January 13 2013 09:33 MrZentor wrote: Hapahauli, l2read. Eh? For what? | ||
Hapahauli
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On January 13 2013 09:28 supersoft wrote: Okay announcement: Don't talk about pointless SHIT!!! scum loves to talk about pointless stuff. Do when the game is over. Right now we're playing the game and we're not in some kind of off-topic thread! FOCUS!!! Don't let this game end in a mess like the Kurumi game! Why are you getting on Jay for posting "pointless shit" when you're talking about smiley faces? On January 13 2013 09:07 supersoft wrote: Why do you post this smilie? what was your intention behind it. Do you think it's funny? I want you to say: I am town. | ||
Hapahauli
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On January 13 2013 09:35 Ruuch wrote: I've played some SC2 mafia but this is the first time I'm dabbling into forum mafia. Have to say though, I was positively taken aback by your civil welcome <3 You're one of the few people I don't know in this thread, mind if I pick your brain a bit? 1) What is your stance/view/attitude on lurker-lynches? 2) Are you going to be around for the lynch deadline? 3) Favorite dessert? | ||
Hapahauli
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On January 13 2013 09:39 Xatalos wrote: You'll be probably shot first if you're town, though, so you shouldn't refrain from posting. And it's best to establish yourself as town right away if you can. And if you're scum, posting a lot will drive you to a corner late-game. It's win-win for everyone, so why not. Oh I'll be posting for sure. Hell every time I say "I won't be as active" I end up spamming the shit out of the thread anyway. I just have some not-so-good memories of thread activity in recent games, and if I'm the one driving discussion again, town's screwed when if I get NK'd. | ||
Hapahauli
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Yeah, but whyyyyyyyyy? | ||
Hapahauli
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On January 13 2013 08:49 kushm4sta wrote: Wow I was going to try hard this game but then prome said what he said now I have to play like shit just to spite him. ~~~ Define full retard. I will not play illegally that is all I can promise. Kush, can we NOT do this? Like if you want to go retard as mafia, go for it. But if you're town, you and I are not going to get along well this game if you decide to troll the game for your own amusement. | ||
Hapahauli
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On January 13 2013 09:46 jaybrundage wrote: I don't know about you. But i don't mind having fun while killing de scum. I just came off a town victory so im ready for this shit. Lets double it up. I'm all for finding scum too. I heard about this from some vet. You RNG someone and propose a lynch on him and bam conversation. It's something different but i dont mind giving it a shot. So How do you guys feel about a lynch on Sloosh. Jay, what was all that stuff about kush then, if you're just going to make an RNG gambit? | ||
Hapahauli
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On January 13 2013 09:51 Ruuch wrote: I had Xatalos quickly brief me on the terms in question, so here goes: 1) In theory I think I like the concept but I haven't really formed an opinion on it yet as this is my first forum mafia game after all. 2) I suspect I will. 3) Muffins, everybody loves muffins :3 Oh are you Xatalos's RL bud? Also, is there anything in the thread that sticks out to you right now? There's certainly MrZ's vote on you that I want your opinions on. | ||
Hapahauli
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On January 13 2013 09:07 MrZentor wrote: Super, Jay is town. -.- How serious are you about this read right now? Like I understand Jay is being spammy right now, but that's not a reason to call someone town. That's how I was wrong on yamato for a while last game. | ||
Hapahauli
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On January 13 2013 09:57 MrZentor wrote: Eh, 86%. You should be thankful I'm not as bad at reading people as you. :p His spaminess aside, what do you think about his RNG lynch thing? That stuff is normally not scummy by any means, but the fact he's been pushing Kush on the side (then proposes an RNG lynch on Sloosh) is very questionable. | ||
Hapahauli
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Please answer my question. Why are you pushing Kush out of one side of your mouth, then proposing a Sloosh RNG lynch out of the other? It reads a lot like you don't give a shit about who dies. | ||
Hapahauli
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Also thrawn, explain the grush thing a bit please. | ||
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On January 13 2013 10:04 MrZentor wrote: How so? If anything, those actions have made him seem more townie in my eyes. It reads like he doesn't give a shit about who gets lynched. | ||
Hapahauli
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On January 13 2013 10:06 MrZentor wrote: It reads like he is frustrated with Kush's attitude and thought it would be fun to try something new to generate activity. He's pushing kush because he thinks kush is scummy. Case in point: On January 13 2013 09:01 jaybrundage wrote: The way your entering the thread is terrible your setting the town up for failure. Its hard enough to play mafia when people are trying there best. If your gonna play like shit and it make it intentionally hard to read you I have no problem lynching you. You looking scummy as it is. You can step it up, Or get lynched your call. | ||
Hapahauli
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On January 13 2013 10:06 thrawn2112 wrote: hapa are you serious? I don't see anything fruitful coming from that line of questioning regardless of jay's alignment and/or regardless of why he's suggesting a random vote. his eventual answer in any scenario where he's town/scum is the same, that he's doing it to create discussion. wth are you trying to figure out? Of course I'm serious - there's something illogical and scummy about his play and I'm going to get answers for it whether you like it or not. As for the bolded point, that's an incredibly short-sighted views on things. There are many many ways he can respond to my question in terms of activity, tone, frequency, etc. I'm interested in much more than the answer itself. | ||
Hapahauli
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On January 13 2013 10:14 MrZentor wrote: He says Kush LOOKS scummy, not that he is. Yeah so what? He's pushing kush because he thinks kush is scummy, and not out of simple frustration. The difference between "LOOKS" and "IS" is irrelevant in that regard. | ||
Hapahauli
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Speaking of "are you serious," explain this: On January 13 2013 09:55 thrawn2112 wrote: grush is scum imo | ||
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On January 13 2013 10:19 MrZentor wrote: No, he isn't even really pushing Kush. In that post, Jay is threatening Kush, telling him that if he doesn't play well, Jay won't be afraid to lynch him. Jay saying "You look scummy as it is." is a way for Jay to show Kush that it wouldn't be difficult to lynch him. Which is why he said "look" instead of "are". Well we can agree to disagree on the interpretation, because I don't see what you see. I still want to hear his answer to things. | ||
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@ Hopeless I'm still waiting for you to explain why you think Grush is scum. You said he "didn't make the correct answer," but exactly what type of answer would you expect from a "town" Grush in that situation? Especially to a random early-game accusation of all things? | ||
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On January 13 2013 10:29 MrZentor wrote: in all my posts, to make it difficult to quote me. I don't know; it looks as if you purposely took it out of context, just to make Jay look scummy. :/ In other news, I'm going to start putting [/QUOTE] I don't think I took it out of context. Hell why are you hard-defending someone barely 3 hours into the game? Sure you have a town read on him, but how can you be this sure so quickly? Do you really think Jay is completely incapable of doing what he just has done as mafia? Secondly, I'm never going to really get a grip on Jay's alignment until I have a discussion with him. It's possible that you're right about all of this, but I want to hear from Jay and make a decision from that. | ||
Hapahauli
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+ Show Spoiler + jk <3 | ||
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On January 13 2013 10:30 Hopeless1der wrote: Telling you would be like locking the key inside the padlock. I find grush to be ungrushlike and I think its scummy. Kinda sucks that thrawn finds out issue with that, but I'll be putting an explanation together when I'm back at a computer. I could also be talking out of my ass because I snapped at something from memory, but again I'll explain at the latest in 14ish hours depending on how tired i am when i get home. Well do be prepared to explain this, because it does look like your'e talking out of your ass rather than a rational read. | ||
Hapahauli
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Thrawn... please... please play this out seriously. Please. | ||
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On January 13 2013 10:39 MrZentor wrote: Saying that Jay was pushing Kush is definitely taking his quote out of context, whether you realize this or not. I'm am almost certain he's town. Yes, it is possible for him to do this as scum, but it's extremely unlikely he'd be able to. I get that you think Jay is town based on his spaminess, but 3 hours is far too small of a sample size to make a meta judgement. If he keeps this up, I'll be inclined to agree with you. For now, I want to hear his answers, because I'm pretty sure I"m not taking him out of context. | ||
Hapahauli
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As for hopeless, not sure what to make of him right now. He does apparently have some reasoning to vote you tucked away, and I want to see that before I make a judgement on him. | ||
Hapahauli
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On January 13 2013 10:48 MrZentor wrote: ----EDIT----- And now you're misrepresenting me. Believe it or not, I don't judge if somebody is town by how much they post; I am also not reading Jay based on meta. I'm reading him from his actions and their motives. Also, I don't see how how you think you're not taking him out of context. -.- ----EDIT---- Oh hm actually you are right. He has a second post with the quote: On January 13 2013 09:15 jaybrundage wrote: You setting your self up to do scummy shit all game. You dont come in say. Im gonna play like shit. Because when you do play like shit and do scummy stuff all game its harder to call you on it. Cause you can claim BUT I SAID I WAS GONNA PLAY LIKE SHIT DERP. The biggest part of it tho. Is that i think its a dick move and I dont like your approach to the game. | ||
Hapahauli
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Anyway MrZ, talk to me about Ruuch a bit. You have your vote on him, and he did respond to it some. Do you make anything one way or the other of his recent posting? | ||
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On January 13 2013 11:02 jaybrundage wrote: Well I just didnt like Kushs post it rubbed me the wrong way way play detrimental on purpose. Does it make him scum? No. But it does make him anti town as fuck again I why put up with bull shit like that. If you dont address it upfront people try to get away with shit like that. I stated this in my reply to Xalatos. Also as to the RNG lynch exactly what i stated It was to create discussion. I heard a vet mention it and decided to try it out. I mean I state in the post its for discussion. Seems like your nitpicking hapa. And while i was writing this you discovered the post to Xalatos. zzzzz Fair enough. Though at this stage of the game, discussion seems to be going well enough to not have to resort to a random-lynch or other discussion-generating plays. There are several interesting things to discuss right now. In particular, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on Hopeless, as well as the pressure on Grush at the moment. | ||
Hapahauli
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I know you're lurking about somewhere. Get in here and explain these voting shenanigans of yours. | ||
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On January 13 2013 11:16 thrawn2112 wrote: my thoughts on the grush/hopeless thing have almost been reset to null for the following reason: -the reasoning hopeless gave for thinking grush is scum is pretty close to my own reasoning. if I HAD to pick out one of them as scum right now, it'd probably be hopeless Hopeless really never explained his reasoning about Grush though. So you think/thought Grush is/was scum for gut-feeling or something? So why would you pick Hopeless as scum? You voted him earlier, but you also changed your mind about it. ##unvote Apart from a few specifics in the ongoing grush/hopeless stuff, by biggest concern so far is super. A lot of his accusations and scumhunting techniques seemed fake/ineffective and he was obsessing over things that do not matter at all. He never actually came to any conclusions based on his questioning, and he seemed to disappear from the thread as activity was starting to pick up. Regarding super, he did kinda peace out on this activity love-boat of ours =/ I know you played in a scum-team with him in LVIII - does this seem like a similar behavior pattern for scum-super? | ||
Hapahauli
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On January 13 2013 11:34 thrawn2112 wrote: I wouldn't pick hopeless as scum, unless it was out of the two of them. Hopeless just came away from the situation more scummy than grush. My "grush is scum imo" post was not all that serious but was based on me noticing an apparent difference in how grush is playing now than how he plays is town. The only problem is that it's actually a somewhat more townie way to play, lol. ... Why did Hopeless come away more scummy from things? Also, is Hopeless your top scumread at this stage? | ||
Hapahauli
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On January 13 2013 11:45 thrawn2112 wrote: hopeless comes away more scummy because if I look at each player objectively, without meta, and not thinking about them omgusing each other, hopeless is scummier. meta is a dumb reason to have a strong opinion on who to lynch, and hopeless actually seemed completely serious about wanting to lynch grush. his "wrong answer" post was strange as you've pointed out and "what would be the right answer" was the same question I thought about as soon as I read hopeless's post. no, he's not my top read. that title probably goes to xatalos/super. as I said, my thoughts on grush/hope have somewhat been reset back to null. Regarding the bolded, if you were more concerned about Xatalos and Super, why would you feel obligated to "pick a side" on the Hopeless/Grush thing? On January 13 2013 11:16 thrawn2112 wrote: ... -the reasoning hopeless gave for thinking grush is scum is pretty close to my own reasoning. if I HAD to pick out one of them as scum right now, it'd probably be hopeless It reads as really forced. If you're leaning null on them, why would you even bring something like this up? fml if this is to be yet another incarnation of thrawn and hapa spamming at each other As always as always. | ||
Hapahauli
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On January 13 2013 11:55 thrawn2112 wrote: because my thoughts on xatalos and super came after my thoughts on grush/hopeless lol because you asked? o.0 Oh did I? Well shit >> | ||
Hapahauli
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Anywho, that's an interesting bit on Xatalos you have there. Reading through his filter. | ||
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Regarding Xata, he just seems to be questioning posts that he doesn't understand. I can't draw anything meaningful from his filter yet. He also got mislynched in Witchcraft for being wishy-washy and talking in generalities, so I have some hesitancy when it comes to him. @ Kush On January 13 2013 12:02 kushm4sta wrote: hollly shit hapa i really dislike your back and forth questioning style. It spams a lot and it makes it really hard to read closely and look at filters. It also makes it hard to read the game closely. I have really bad reading comprehension (sparknotes through education ftw) so it's extra hard for me. Useless comment is useless. The last time you were useless in the early-game, you were scum in WItchcraft. | ||
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On January 13 2013 12:27 kushm4sta wrote: Bad reasoning is bad. Last time you used bad reasoning you were town. You must be town right? Your contributions to the thread right now are the following: 1) "I want to troll the thread, don't modkill me modzzzzz" 2) "The next post I make, it'll be about who I think is scum" 3) "Hapa, stop posting so much, you're acting too townie" | ||
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On January 13 2013 12:31 supersoft wrote: lol. teach me how to play this game. please. The rest of us want an answer too ya know. | ||
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On January 13 2013 12:34 kushm4sta wrote: hapa you aren't acting townie. You are actively pushing logical falsehoods for some reason and I don't get why. A more spammy version of the dumb or scum conundrum. I'm just pointing out how your logic is bad. ---->I was useless as scum, i'm useless right now, therefore I must be scum. Bad reasoning.. one example of many in the thread so far. @hapa are you saying stupid shit just because you like to talk a lot? why are you using bad logic? Is your play pro-town right now, true or false? | ||
Hapahauli
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@ MrZ I don't think it's good to give Kush a town read based on the 180. If it was another player, I'd agree with you, but Kush is some who doesn't mind the spotlight at-all as scum. I don't know what to think of him yet, and I'm going to wait until I see his scumhunting before I make a judgement. @ Supersoft Have you looked into MrZ's meta at all? Because those early-game town reads are super-normal for him. Also, please reply to my previous post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=6#119 Regarding Xatalos His interaction with MrZ regarding Kush looks super-duper sketchy. He's balls-out convinced that Kush's 180 was scummy, then backs down to a "townish" read when confronted by MrZ. That, and he's been soft-defending a few players early in the game. His soft-defense of supersoft in particular reads as very forced: On January 13 2013 11:30 Xatalos wrote: What are you saying? You agree with hopeless so he's more scummy than grush whom you think is scummy with the same reasons as hopeless? Yeah, supersoft's focus on a single smilie was very overdone. But I think he looked pretty convinced about the matter. Why was it fake? Maybe he just wanted to pressure and get a reaction? I'm generally hesitant about him given that I mislynched him in British Mini Mafia for his "wishy-washiness," but his filter doesn't look very good right now. | ||
Hapahauli
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On January 13 2013 12:45 MrZentor wrote: Also, I've already, although indirectly, pointed out that Hapa's play this game is different than usual, waaay before Kush said it. From me to Hapa So in a way, Kush is agreeing with me. I certainly took it out of context, but it wasn't intentional. That's what I do early on Day 1 - I'll go after anything I perceive as scummy early on and think of the consequences later. | ||
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On January 13 2013 15:15 thrawn2112 wrote: hapa what your #1 scum read? Xatalos for the reasons stated above, followed pretty closely by Hopeless. | ||
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On January 13 2013 15:28 slOosh wrote: I think the post you are thinking of is directed at kush (based on the next post in his filter). Yes that's what I said no? Xatalos direct a post towards Kush here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=14#280 At which point MrZ confronted him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=15#282 At which point Xatalos backed down: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=15#287 | ||
Hapahauli
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On January 13 2013 15:38 slOosh wrote: I'm looking at these, where he says "should have quoted this post". http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=15#287 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=15#289 On that note I also like jay on his ability to read and point out the ambiguity. Oh geezus I'm off today. Yeah that last bit was directed at Kush and not MrZ. X- out that bit, but the soft-defenses still stand. | ||
Hapahauli
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I don't like his case on MrZ, but I'm unsure if that's scum motivated or ignorant-townie motivated. | ||
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On January 13 2013 16:37 slOosh wrote: I never make reads based on associations, and no one ever should. I think he is scum because of the stupid way he presented the whole thing. He an old school player, and from the little I've seen he is good. Not sure what you mean by ignorant. Ignorant in the sense that people unfamiliar with MrZ jump on him all the time. I'll have to look through super's meta some to get a feel for his play | ||
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I thought you were null on Kush? Why are you defending him? | ||
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On January 13 2013 20:09 Promethelax wrote: Lol at bugs, I'm scum because I was at work when the game started. Is there some unspoken rule about us not asking grush to give us his town breadcrumb? Because that is all I want from him right now. For those of you who haven't played with Kush assume he is similar to chezinu but without either the class or the ability to find scum. He is a troll who will troll all game long but it Isn't too hard to get a read on. I would like to hear both Hapa and thrawn's opinions of Kush. They know how to read him, as do I. Super, are you town? Zentor, can I expect you to be useful This game or should I put you into the troll column? Jay, what's your read of zentor? Slopsh, opinions on anyone who doesn't have a million point scrabble name. Hey Prome! As for my thoughts on Kush, he's going to be attention-whorey all game regardless of allignment. What's distinguishable about his scum/town play is his attitude (tends to be whinier as scum) and his willingness to contribute. In that regard, I disagree that he should be marked down as a "troll," because while he's good for the occasional "WTF" comment regardless of allignment, he can make some good contributions in his town game. As for now, I have nothing sufficient to on regarding his alignment. Kush is being kush, and he'll tip his hand in short order. | ||
Hapahauli
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MrZentor "Super, Jay is town. -.-" scumslip ? is the older cousin. defend is naturally - how does he know he's town, is still the question says he can read jay because of one post of his -- wrong thought about what scum does and what not. confuses kush and jay even though jay is his cousin? slOosh calls my stuff BS, hides behind common opinions -- bad case on easy xatalos - really bad reasoning accusing me --- Earlier, you were convinced that MrZ scumslipped. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=12#231 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=13#256 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=14#270 So if you're convinced that MrZ scumslipped, how is SloOsh an even stronger scumread for you? It doesn't help that half the reason you're voting him is pure OMGUS. | ||
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On January 14 2013 04:15 MrZentor wrote: I'm not defending him; there are certain aspects of his play that I don't see as scum motivated, and I was wondering if WBG had considered this. Actually, if I were defending him, why would you question that? Why wouldn't you assume I had gone from being null on him to town? Why would you question me for defending him? Yeah, but it makes no sense to defend a null read. I want to hear kush speak for himself - we need the "null reads" to be speaking up and establishing their alignment. As for why I questioned you, because when I assumed you had a town-read on Kush earlier (based on one of your posts directed towards Xatalos), you replied that you had a null read. You're talking to WBG with the same logic. | ||
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Hey Lazer! I think we're about 24 hours until the end of Day 1. Try to catch up quick now | ||
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On January 14 2013 07:22 Xatalos wrote: Well, you already removed your first argument, so how did that affect your scumread on me? And I already explained that "soft defense" (stating a simple point about his probable intentions) in my previous post. How did that affect your read? I'm actually surprised how weak this reasoning is for your #1 scumread. Is that all there is to it? Talk to me a bit. The main thing I find scummy about you is your multitude of soft-defenses. The supersoft one I quoted earlier reads as especially strange. Also, you're pushing Jay right now, but pushing lynch-bait is something anyone can do. We were both playing in British Mini, and you saw how he acted. What makes his gameplay different now? I see a lot of similarities - spaminess, etc. | ||
Hapahauli
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I keep asking you questions and you keep dodging them - whats the deal? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=19#363 Secondly, a lot of your suspicions right now are based on how much you like certain players rather than their scumminess. You think Prome and SloOsh have bad suspicions of you - so what? Townies do that all the time. I don't know what to think of those players yet, but they are far from scumreads for me. SloOsh in particular has an assertiveness about him that I associate with his town play. | ||
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On January 14 2013 08:31 supersoft wrote: i am ignoring you and not dodging you. I won't answer this completely pointless, useless and stupid question. Talk to me about your reads then. Because it looks like you've OMGUS'd Prome, WBG, and SloOsh rather than having actual reasons to think that they're scum. | ||
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Kushm4sta now Lazermonkey pissed because the host said he'd modkill him if he goes retard. ++ buddys me - funny guy though + ___________________________ after the replacement absolutely ridiculous case against me ------------ probably stupid, since he was already really stupid in kurumis game. He was also wrong about me there. | ||
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Is there anything other than Supersoft you can comment on at this point? A lot of crazy things have happened, and I'm interested to hear your thoughts on some other players. In particular, Xatalos, SloOsh, and WBG. | ||
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On January 14 2013 08:40 Hapahauli wrote: In particular, why did you downgrade your read on Kush/Lazer so much based on OMGUS? Invalidating a town read based on a bad case is insane, especially on Day 1. 'doh ignore this. I can't read. On January 14 2013 08:10 supersoft wrote: *you're ranked pretty high. I actually think you're a retard and not scum :-) Other OMGUS things still stand. | ||
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On January 14 2013 09:02 Promethelax wrote: Hey Hapa y u so scum? okay now that is out of my system, what do you make of SS? Is there any reason to take him as town? I can't find a single one. Are you still looking at Xat as scum? If not he who? Xat is the guy I'm most interested in right now. It looks like he's blending in with his vote on a random lynch-bait case (Jay) rather than being productive and scumhunting. I have very conflicting reads on SS, but I'm leaning town on him. Thrawn mentioned that he was a dick in his scum-game in LVIII, but his play seems really over the top for scum. I hate how he's playing it out, but it looks suicidal from a scum-perspective, since he's so willingly ready to make enemies in the thread. My concern is that he's supposedly an accomplished vet, and I'd expect more from him. However, the OMGUS and violence of his play is indicative of a pissed-off townie. As far as other reads, I'm more concerned with players avoiding the spotlight right now. Ruuch peace'd out of the thread and we haven't heard of him for almost a Day. He is a newbie, but he took a lengthy absence from the thread and has had nothing to contribute to the discussion. Otherwise, nothing very concrete. | ||
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On January 14 2013 07:52 wherebugsgo wrote: Nah you can defend yourself. I have better things to do than waste my time defending someone who is capable of defending himself. I have no interest in lynching you right now but that doesn't mean I necessarily think you are very townie. No one so far in this game has been worth defending. Who are you interested in lynching right now? Since you took your vote off Kush/Lazer, I have no idea where your suspicions stand. | ||
Hapahauli
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On January 14 2013 09:26 Promethelax wrote: hapa, aren't you pressuring weak lynch bait in Xat and Ru? Speaking of players who have vanished for a while what about SloOsh? Why isn't he on your list? Mostly because I agree with SloOsh on Xata. That and I saw SloOsh play as mafia in Liquid City, in which he was extremely passive. His play so far (even if he's afk) shows a level of assertiveness I associate with his town play. As far as me going after "lynch-bait," I'm going to go after people I think are scum. I need to chat it up with him and see whats up, because I don't have any reason to think he's town right now 24 hours into the game. And that's a problem. | ||
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On January 14 2013 09:29 Promethelax wrote: Waht about this? Two hours after his last post and two hours ago without posting anything else. Is this scum hopeless or scummy town hopeless? Hopeless was an early-game scumread of mine, but since then, he has done more scumhunting than Xata or ruuch. He has two longer posts that I quite liked, one unvoting grush and the other declaring his scumreads. He's not my concern right now. | ||
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Do you share my sentiments on Xata at all? | ||
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On January 14 2013 09:37 thrawn2112 wrote: thrawn's new and improved lynch list: sloosh/wbg/hapa/hopeless i'm about 50% confident that randomly lynching into that list will lynch scum Why do you think I'm scum? You've been talking a ton about how you think my play is "off," but you haven't substantiated it at all. | ||
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On January 14 2013 09:44 Promethelax wrote: And as to the case on Xatalos, have you looked at his play in Paranoia? (SloOsh you get to answer this one as well). Hapa I'll tell you what I think after the answer to this. Lazer, what are your thoughts on people who are less soft? I know you 'agree with everything I say' but what about thinking instead of sheeping. How do you see Xat's play and how about SloOsh's? Thrawn, me no likey your list. Explain it to me, why are each of those four present. Would you really be comfortable lynching any of them? Why do you have a town read on Lazer and SS? I haven't looked at Paranoia, but I did just finish British Mini Mafia (where both Xata and I were town). In that game, this was Xata's first entrance into the thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=7#136 This game, his scum-hunting efforts pale in comparison to what I've seen in British Mini. | ||
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No idea why I haven't done this yet. Moving on: @ Thrawn The stuff on SloOsh doesn't make any sense. The second quote only suggests that he's relatively unfamiliar with his play, and not completely unfamiliar. The quotes make perfect sense with one another. Also, why are you chainsaw defending Xata? You were suspicious of him earlier... On January 13 2013 11:54 thrawn2112 wrote: the reasons I think xatalos could be scum he's defending kush.... scum do that a lot he's pushing jay.....scum do that a lot he's participating in a lot of discussion that isn't related to scumhunting, it looks like he's arguing for the sake of arguing i don't detect real suspicion in any of his posts he's spending way too much time defending people and I don't think he's actually suspicious of anything And now you're busy chainsaw defending him. Do you think Xata is town? Because he hasn't appeared in any of your "lynch lists" On January 14 2013 14:48 thrawn2112 wrote: eh, you or hopeless are the wildcards on that list. both of you, and especially you, are based on some tentative association theory stuff going on in my head that i'd rather not discuss atm. and wtf? i've been talking a ton about how your play is off? you misquote me sir, explain plz Do discuss this, because you're suggesting lynching me on mysterious preflip "associations", which is absolutely retarded. Oh as for the "off" stuff, I confused one of MrZ's posts with one of yours. Too many open tabs, and too little sleep | ||
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On January 14 2013 06:59 Promethelax wrote: SloOsh's points on you super are exactly why I am reluctant to vote him, he has accurately expressed the thought I have with your play. It is useless bullshit. While his case was weak it had some merit, even though I won't be voting X today. It had some merit means that he clearly was trying to actively push his lynch and, based on the post Bugs pulled up regarding his interaction with Hapa, was clearly involved with the thread while present. Post number one, the bolded is a really typical scum wishy-washy stance. 1) ...case is weak... 2) ... but it has SOME merit... 3) ... but meh I'm not going to vote him... On January 14 2013 10:36 Promethelax wrote: 'my side' of this issue is the same as yours. I find Xata scummy, I jsut wanted to get better reads on both you and hapa and your targeting fo Xat was a great way to do it. In paranoia Xat is wishy washy and terrible but he is also very try-hard, as he was in british. He I'm not getting that same vibe here and I am happy to lynch him today. My short list of lynchables (like lunchables but with more murder) are Xatalos, Ruuch, SuperSoft and another dude. We'll talk about him later. But then the bolded is a huge WTF. Prome doesn't want to lynch him, questioned SloOsh and I, called SloOsh's case weak, and now all of a sudden is happy to lynch Xata. That's complete BS. Mind you, prome is CONVINCED that SuperSoft is scum: On January 14 2013 09:02 Promethelax wrote: Hey Hapa y u so scum? okay now that is out of my system, what do you make of SS? Is there any reason to take him as town? I can't find a single one. Are you still looking at Xat as scum? If not he who? He can't find a single reason why SuperSoft is town. Yet despite this and SloOsh's "weak" case, he's all of a sudden OK with lynching Xatalos and Ruuch. ##Unvote ##Vote Promethelax | ||
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On January 14 2013 15:36 thrawn2112 wrote: idk about xata atm. there's been stuff in his filter that goes both ways. but the amount of stuff that might make him scum is nowhere near as large as stuff I have on my top scumreads. and no, I'm not suggesting lynching you. did I say that? like, fuck. i'm going to start keeping tally of how many times you misquote/say things that aren't true When you include my name in a list of 4 players and say that we'd have a 50% chance of lynching scum in that players, that's a suggestion. If it isn't, I don't know what is. | ||
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On January 14 2013 15:44 Promethelax wrote: you have a 'not willing to lynch today read on them. I'd call it the same thing basically. I myself have a six man don't lynch list a three man null list and a four man lynch list. My lynch list is just much better than yours. Sloosh, what changed is that I reread the thread, looked into Xat's past and changed my mind. I at first thought he was a scummy looking dude who is always scummy (see Jay) even when town. On looking into him more as a player I decided that his play this game is different from his past, town, games. I knew that since I had earlier stated that I would not vote xat so I used that to pressure you and Hapa to give reasons for your read and to provide a better way for me to read both of you. SS I'm trying really hard to not call anyone fucking stupid. You are making that resolution very hard. Yeah but Prome, what's scummy about your stance on Xatalos is that you have this huge scumread on Supersoft, can't find a single reason that he's town (in your own words), and all of a sudden completely happy with lynching Xatalos. AND Ruuch. It reads like you don't give a crap about who gets lynched. | ||
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On January 14 2013 16:12 Promethelax wrote: I care about who is going to be lynched. I just know that I won't be able to push SS through (it also doesn't help that the other scummiest dude in the thread buddied my case onto him) and after looking at his town play I am less sure than I was. The problem I'm having is that over the short time you were "pressuring" me and SloOsh, you all of a sudden did a lot of reading and your opinions perfectly matched up with ours. It's awfully convenient. [/Quote] Scummy list from most scum to lest scum: Lazer Xat/SS Ruuch list of dudes I think could be lynched day one who are on the previous list, again in order of most likely to least likely: Xat Ruuch Lazer SS Wait what?! How on earth is SuperSoft not a likely lynch candidate for today? Hell he's the vote leader right now! | ||
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On January 14 2013 16:25 Promethelax wrote: because Hopeless is bad at pushing lynches and Lazer is scummy as shit sheep. That leaves me to push it and, for whatever reason, no one has me as town. If there is consolidation it seems clear that Bugs, You, Thrawn will consolidate away from SS. I don't really want my vote to be a waste today and I have other scum reads tp pressure who I think have a better chance of being lynched and as good (or even better) chance of flipping scum. I decided my tunnel wasn't so hot and there were better things for me to do day one than pressure a vet who is good as town. It is inexcusable not to push a scumread because of the inabilities of other players supporting you. The bolded is the scummiest thing I've seen in this thread. "I don't want to push my wagon because no one sees me as town?!?!?!?" Listen. If you think SS is scum, you're welcome to convince me otherwise. As stated, it reads like you ran into some resistance about SS from me, then shut down your suspicions on him in favor of lynching Lazermonkey. And I'll be honest - I'm really really against lynching the replacement today unless he does something really scummy. I think a lot of his "sheeping" can be explained by him replacing in barely 6 hours ago, and I don't see it as scummy at all. | ||
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On January 14 2013 16:36 Promethelax wrote: I rethought my reads. I am not the guy who will be pushing SS's lynch. SS will not be lynched today. I have otehr scummier reads, why is it inexcusable to push them over a less scummy read again? Oh right, it isn't. Don't be dumb Hapa, its not in your nature. Well I still don't understand how you dropped your suspicions on SS. Your reasoning for "rethinking" your read on SS was the following: SS is a giant prick but I'm less comfortable lynching him after looking into his Bureauracracy filter, he is clearly a good player and he clearly likes to be an ass and post shitty one-liners. since that is the case I went to look at other players in this game. Xat stood out as a dude who I didn't know anything about and there was a case on him so I looked at paranioa, he is clearly trying to figure out who scum is and being a try hard little townie. He is not the same here and I am willing to vote him. ...but SS being a "giant prick" and "posting shitty one-liners" had nothing to do with your case on him. For reference: What has Supersoft done to get off that list? His play thus far has been incredibly anti-town. He posted a huge list full of nothing (seriously has reads based on if people will call themselves town) and is trying to get vets lynched day one. Something he said he would never do as town. Along with that Super has gotten ultra defensive when Sloosh called his posting bullshit and he has continued to fling shit around the thread. I find SS scummiest and plan on voting him today. In fact ##Vote: Supersoft Notable from your case: 1) SS is trying to get "vets" lynched Day 1 2) SS is getting ultra defensive 3) SS is posting alot, but it's content-less 4) SS is flinging shit around the thread Regarding you "rethinking your reads" over all, it looks like you did a lot of re-thinking in a very short time, and it was very convenient with how the suspicions of SloOsh and I lined up. Anywho, I'll get to your response tomorrow morning, and I'm interested in seeing where your case on Lazermonkey goes. Though as I've said before, you don't explain what makes Lazer's sheeping scummy rather than simply a replacement not caught-up with the game. | ||
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Right now, we need to lynch the guy that's actually done something scummy - Promethelax. He was convinced SuperSoft was scum all game, then merrily decided he was happy with Xatalos + Ruuch being dead, then now is onto Lazermonkey for being a sheep. On January 14 2013 09:26 Promethelax wrote: hapa, aren't you pressuring weak lynch bait in Xat and Ru? Speaking of players who have vanished for a while what about SloOsh? Why isn't he on your list? He earlier questioned me for going after lynch-bait, and now his top three scumreads are perhaps the biggest lynch-bait in the game. He needs to hang today. | ||
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On January 15 2013 05:37 wherebugsgo wrote: yo hapa, can you give me a list of past games of yours I can read? Also I just noticed you went to school in MI :p cool, I'm a MI native haha. Go Blue! Yep I graduated from UofM a year ago... and I already miss being up there =/ As for my game history, you can find most of it in the TL Mafia Database: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=390080 The only two games NOT listed in there are British Mini Mafia and Witchcraft Mini Mafia, and I was town in both games: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816&user=47519 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112&user=47519 | ||
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You were really down with a Prome lynch last night - what happened? You had kush down as super-town, and I can't figure out how you downgraded Lazermonkey so far to the point of being a lynch candidate. | ||
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On January 15 2013 05:54 wherebugsgo wrote: oh right, I keep forgetting we have that. lol. well, I'm going to continue asking people that way anyway :p One thing I want to mention right away about Promethelax is that I found his interactions with sloosh very weird. Basically he was voted by sloosh at some point iirc, but he didn't respond in a way I expected a townie to respond to someone who was voting him. He treated sloosh as town immediately, I felt. However sloosh's behavior on the other side of the coin has also been weird, but a little bit less so. At first I thought maybe it's just sloosh trying to solidify his reads but I can't reconcile why he seems to be so diplomatic. Yeah that whole convo that SloOsh outlined earlier? The guy goes from "I can't find a reason that SuperSoft is town, and I don't want to lynch Xata today" to "Oh I'm totes down with a Xata + Ruuch lynch" over that short convo. | ||
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Are you guys around? I need your input on all of this. | ||
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@ WBG The Lazer counter-wagon is pretty "resistance-y". But again, who would be an alternative lynch target? You've pushed Xatalos a lot this game, but that stopped when you sheeped the lazer wagon. I haven't heard much from you at all since in terms of scumreads. | ||
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On January 15 2013 06:19 thrawn2112 wrote: loool, lynch prom that defense was so bad "Here are 4 people that I want to lycnh for shits" "Here are another 2 that are attacking me and are making me sad" | ||
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On January 15 2013 06:22 MrZentor wrote: Hi Hapa, who do you think I should vote for? Prome, though you could have answered that for yourself by reading the last two pages | ||
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On January 15 2013 06:25 wherebugsgo wrote: wtf? How is Lazer a counterwagon to Prom when the votes on Lazer CAME FIRST? Jesus, this is why I call all of you people stupid all the time. Uhhhhh... no? SloOsh and I voted for Prome, then Prome started his wagon on Lazer. | ||
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What makes you think Lazer is more likely to flip mafia than Prome? Also it seems like you're dissatisfied with the current suspects. Who else would you lynch? | ||
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On January 15 2013 06:49 wherebugsgo wrote: I would very much like to last minute lynch zentor if possible. ##unvote ##vote MrZentor Why? MrZ is being MrZ. Hell his activity and meta suggests he's town this game. | ||
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On January 15 2013 07:08 Xatalos wrote: Back. Is Promethelax getting lynched right now? Prome's leading over Lazer 5 votes to 4 right now. I haven't heard your thoughts on Prome at all - care to comment? | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112&user=137099 The way you read MrZ is via his activity and willingness to post. He's lurk-tastic as scum, and he's really light-hearted and open as town. | ||
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I'm not going to switch from a player who looks scummy as shit (Prome) for lack of resistance. When a player is really scummy, do you really think there would be resistance regardless of his alignment? @ Supersoft On January 15 2013 07:19 Hapahauli wrote: For the last time SuperSoft - WHY DO YOU THINK PROME IS TOWN?!?!?! On January 15 2013 07:19 Hapahauli wrote: For the last time SuperSoft - WHY DO YOU THINK PROME IS TOWN?!?!?! On January 15 2013 07:19 Hapahauli wrote: For the last time SuperSoft - WHY DO YOU THINK PROME IS TOWN?!?!?! | ||
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On January 15 2013 08:39 supersoft wrote: Because the scumteam has only 3 members i already pointed out. You think the entire scumteam committed Day 1 to lynch Prome. Really. | ||
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On January 15 2013 08:40 Lazermonkey wrote: I disagree with him looking scummy as shit but okay, did you read my reasons for thinking Prom is town? Your obviously right in the second part. Yes I did, and I think you didn't get the whole case on him. Prome has been so opportunistic in his play. He has a strong read on SS until I confronted him about it. He has a null read on Xatalos and Ruuch until I confronted him about it. And what really vindicates my read is how he's been pushing your case. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=34#672 He had earlier attacked me for pushing "lynch-bait," then proceeds to push Xatalos, Ruuch, and yourself. | ||
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On January 15 2013 08:42 Lazermonkey wrote: ##Vote: WBG It's never too late... Oh hell. You're not pushing SS and Jay (your top two scumreads) because they're not realistic lynch chances. And you think WBG is a realistic lynch chance? | ||
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You tell me. | ||
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##Vote Ruuch | ||
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On January 15 2013 08:58 Ruuch wrote: Just going with the flow I guess. I'd hate to be solely responsible for lynching a townie ##Vote Promethelax That better? You just lurked the ENTIRE game, and then made a vote going with the flow? I'm not buying it. | ||
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Ruuch, you need to tell us why that was not a scumclaim. | ||
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On January 15 2013 08:49 supersoft wrote: omg, the only one who convincingly abandoned his read on me was prom, because he really read my bureaucrazy-mafia. At least he told me so. If he flips scum (i dont believe it) he was coached. On January 15 2013 08:55 supersoft wrote: LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL how late can someone come into this thread oh man... policylynch inc. On January 15 2013 08:59 supersoft wrote: ##Unvote: Lazermonkey ##Vote Promethelax NO! this is madness On January 15 2013 09:00 supersoft wrote: No last minute voteswitch to a random newb who gives me no information!!! 1) No way prome is flipping scum 2) Oh man Ruuch needs to be policy lynched! 3) Fuck that, I'm voting for the guy I think is town 4) DAT INFORMATION MAN | ||
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On January 15 2013 09:17 supersoft wrote: Hapahauli please shut the fuck up. You just lynched a fucking townie even though WBG and I were against that lynch. You should really REALLY reconsider your whole playstyle. Youre EXTREMELY useless despite of the fact you put a lot of time into this game spamming up the thread. WTF is your goal with your fucking useless questioning. Really. Shut up now. Do you think I am scum? After all i went through D1 ? If you're town, you're really one of the worst players here. Yes I think you're scum, since you just voted for someone you were CONVINCED was fucking town. | ||
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On January 15 2013 09:20 supersoft wrote: yeah go ahead. accuse me because i am so fucking much better than you at this game. You know why i knew with a 70% chance that he's town? Because i fucking care to read the thread. Did you even read proms appearance in the last 20 hours of this game? Oh man! "Yeah I read the thread and I totally thought that Prome was town!" "So I voted him over the guy I said I'd policy lynch for information!" Ok buddy. | ||
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On January 15 2013 09:24 supersoft wrote: Prom didn't play bad by the way. Don't you dare to blame him for his death! I know you're going to tell me that. But Lazer and Sloosh were MUCH better targets. I only let Prom die instead of ruuch, because Proms flip confirms my read on Sloosh, Lazer and some other players i consider as town now. Ruuch is a townie, too, no way he's coached to do that shit. And i wouldnt have the info. But that all sucks. I wanted to kill Lazer. No see that doesn't make any sense, because you wouldn't have posted this before the deadline: On January 15 2013 08:55 supersoft wrote: LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL how late can someone come into this thread oh man... policylynch inc. | ||
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On January 15 2013 10:00 supersoft wrote: I just reread this. Prome gave me informations - Ruush woulnd't give me information... You're confusing everything... Do you even TRY to understand and think before you post? Oh that second quote was a butchered way of saying it. I'm saying you voted Prome (for information) over the guy you said you'd policy lynch. | ||
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MrZ is almost assuredly town. He has five pages of filter on Day 1. While activity is not alignment indicative for some players, it is very much so for MrZ. All the other stuff in his filter (easy town reads, etc) are just MrZ being MrZ. In fact he's acting more townie than what I'm used to seeing out of him. I just played two games with him and called his alignment early (and correctly) in both games. I'd like to think I have a good handle on his meta. | ||
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On January 15 2013 14:19 thrawn2112 wrote: hapa can I get your thoughts on grush and slOosh? Grush is always going to spontaneously come up with reads or make a sketchy vote regardless of his alignment. What's more telling about his alignment is his attitude. Marv in Hero Mini was talking about how grush tended to be more trolly and antagonistic as scum. Though marv was scum in that game, the read methodology was genuine. As for grush's attitude, I haven't seen any of his "scum traits" this game, but I just don't have enough of a sample-size to go on. I don't think he's someone one could reliably read 48 hours into the game. I'm mostly interested in seeing how he reacts to you and Jay's case against him. SloOsh is a slight-town read. I saw him play scum in Liquid City Mafia first hand, and he was super-lurky and sheepy for most of the game. He and I have been eye-to-eye on our suspicions so far, and he has an assertiveness about him this game that suggests he's town. Like grush though, I don't have enough posts from him to get an accurate read on him. | ||
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GL HF, and hopefully I'll see you on the other side of the deadline. Bolded Green = Strong town-read Green = slight-to-moderate town-read Black/Bolded = Null Red = Suspicious, needs to get looked into Bolded Red = Scum Thrawn - Thrawn has played two scum-games (Mafia LVIII, Mario Mini Mafia), in which he was lurky and really tried to avoid attention. In this game, his activity as well as his voting-shenanigans early in the game are strongly-indicative of a town thrawn. He's not trying to blend in, and his early-game actions match up very well with his recent town-games. MrZentor - He's generally very scared of posting and very self-conscious about his image when he's scum. He's the polar opposite this game. He's playing incredibly similar to his previous two town games (British Mini + Witchcraft Mini), and is even more active and fearless than in those games. WBG - A mix of gut-feeling and the fact that all his posts have made sense. I really liked his post breaking down the votes... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=43#854 ... and there are certain posts in his filter that look too attention-grabbing to be from a scum player, notably: On January 15 2013 07:42 wherebugsgo wrote: rofl I'm not going to even argue against this. You guys can lynch who you want. Also lol @ hopeless. sadly I can't tell whether you're scum trying to appear reasonable or whether you're simply town. Sigh. WBG is a damn-good scum player, so there's certainly a possibility that he is doing what he's doing as scum. I don't think that's the case though. Jaybrundage - Like MrZ, activity is very indicative of Jay's allignment. He's lurk-tastic as scum, but much more open and active as town. He passes the activity test for now, and all his behavior so far seems really typical of town Jay. I'll be worried if he stops posting, but it's unlikely he's scum based on his behavior so far. SloOsh - Probably a slight town-read on the basis that he's making sense and has been assertive about his reads. He did make the initial case on Promethelax on Day 1, but I agreed with it at the time and it didn't seem malicious. He's lurkier than I would like, but that's not a reason to lynch him. I'm interested to see his reads tonight. As WBG said, best to read him based on what cases he's pushing. SuperSoft - I'm torn on his pre-lynch actions. On the one hand, him voting for Promethelax looks really bad, and he seems more obsessed with shooting his SK read rather than the people he's convinced are scum. However, he's an arrogant asshole, and I can rationalize a lot of this from said town mentality. His attitude on Prome for example... On January 15 2013 09:30 supersoft wrote: guys i understand, you don't understand my playstyle. That's because I have a long term strategy for more than one cycle. Something most of you are not capable of because of limited brainactivity. I prefer to sacrificing a prawn in the middle to get it out of the my bishops line rather than a pawn at the side with no reward. ... if anyone can think like that as town, it's probably SuperSoft. I'm generally worried about him because he's supposedly a good player, and then proceeds to vote a town read, and he seems more obsessed with killing the SK than his actual scumreads. I don't see a reason why he's not calling a vigi shot on the guy he's convinced is scum (Lazer). grush - Is grush. I gave my thoughts earlier on him: On January 15 2013 22:29 Hapahauli wrote: Grush is always going to spontaneously come up with reads or make a sketchy vote regardless of his alignment. What's more telling about his alignment is his attitude. Marv in Hero Mini was talking about how grush tended to be more trolly and antagonistic as scum. Though marv was scum in that game, the read methodology was genuine. As for grush's attitude, I haven't seen any of his "scum traits" this game, but I just don't have enough of a sample-size to go on. I don't think he's someone one could reliably read 48 hours into the game. I'm mostly interested in seeing how he reacts to you and Jay's case against him. ... Iamperfection - Replacement gets a blank slate. Also pretty happy with this development, considering that iamp has a really easily distinguished scum/town meta. If you see him clam up and have difficulty posting frequently and openly, he's scum. If he's super-spammy, he's town. Xatalos - Also very lynch-baity. I have very conflicting reads on him. He's more active than I've seen him in British Mini Mafia. At the same time, I haven't been thrilled with his Day 1 contributions. I tried to look in more detail through his town meta to see if I could pin down why he could be scum this game, and I can't find anything super-convincing about his alignment one way or the other. I need to see some more reads from him before I make a decision. He's a pretty wishy-washy guy regardless of alignment, so be careful with this one. Lazer - I've been looking over his "scumslip" for some time now. First off, I don't think a slip like that is damning by any measure. Townies can butcher wordings and do stupid things all the time. It's a really really bad idea to lynch him only based on his "slip." That being said, I'm leaning scum on him for the behavioral oddities in his defense (as thrawn pointed out): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=45#896 And given how Supersoft worded his "hey scumteam, shoot Hapa" post, it's unlikely that Lazer simply misread things. I do think it's POSSIBLE though, so handle with care. Hopeless - His pre-lynch are extremely scummy. Hopeless shows a shocking level of lynch-apathy that is completely at odds with his town mentality. He votes lazermonkey here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=28#552 This is individually fine and dandy, but then there's this post on Promethelax: On January 15 2013 02:47 Hopeless1der wrote: He has asked a lot of questions and generally follows them up. They don't appear to be useless and he seems to have read British Empire, which he didn't play in. He's going out of his way to interact with people, like asking you (sloosh) about xat's play in Paranoia, which again he didn't play in or me about my "policy", as discussed in an obs qt. In short, he's active and paying attention, pursuing information from outside of this game where possible. His "swapping" his stance on Xata was deliberate and pre-meditated to me, as evidenced by his post here: Further to the above, I don't recall him ever taking a proper stance on Xatalos until this post. His unvote of SS is sketchy, especially what Hapa pointed out, with the unvote reasons having nothing to do with the initial voting reasons. His case against Lazer, and followup to that are much stronger than his push against SS, which makes me wonder if his heart was ever in pushing SS to begin with. I'm leaning town on Prom. If he gives a town-read on Prome, what is even the point of the bolded section? He doesn't attempt to discredit that viewpoint or even qualify it. He piles suspicion on Prome then gives an arbitrary town-read on him at the end of it. After that, he doesn't attempt to push lazer at all. When he does, he questions Lazer about his Jay read. On January 15 2013 02:55 Hopeless1der wrote: Thrawn, that is very demotivating. You're hurting my feelings. The last time that type of post happened, grush shot me in the back. Please stahp. @Lazer, I don't think your case on jay shows how what he's done is scummy. Show me. On January 15 2013 03:16 Hopeless1der wrote: Okay, then go figure out how to convince me jay is scum, because at the moment, I am not convinced. He wants Lazer to convince him that Jay is scum, rather than pushing through the Lazer lynch. Then he stops pushing Lazer and begins pushing MrZ: On January 15 2013 07:26 Hopeless1der wrote: Examples please. I disagree with your statement. On January 15 2013 07:30 Hopeless1der wrote: Im poking Zentor for misrepresenting wbg's filter. On January 15 2013 07:33 Hopeless1der wrote: If I can show him to be scummier than Prom, then yes, that would be rather useful. ZENTOR, HOP TO IT Then FINALLY, when he's confronted for not pushing the Lazer lynch: On January 15 2013 07:41 Hopeless1der wrote: KILL LAZER MONKEY SO SCUM OMG There, I've hard defended every other player in the game. Gratz He replies sarcastically and is annoyed by the fact that he should be posting a scumread. So Hopeless's play can be characterized by: 1) Not pushing his scumreads 2) Being remarkably unconcerned that his town read is getting lynched (and soft-pushing the Prome lynch) 3) Flinging shit at OTHER players rather than being concerned with the lynch (namely MrZ) Most importantly, make sure you look at Hopeless's town games. Page 3 of his filter in Mario Mini Mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440&user=123725¤tpage=3 On November 15 2012 10:47 Hopeless1der wrote: Switch back to debears plox On November 15 2012 10:52 Hopeless1der wrote: ZB, how is what debears doing townie at all? He's trying to lynch me for inactivity when I said I was on my way home from work. He's had like 10 desperate posts trying to push me for no other reason than 'he's not here' - This is almost half his entire case on me. Lynch debears. On November 15 2012 10:54 Hopeless1der wrote: KILL DEBEARS GODDAMNIT On November 15 2012 10:57 Hopeless1der wrote: I'm voting scum. Screw you all. Hell the entirety of his ChronoTrigger mafia play (as town) is night and day compared to his play this game. I need not pick specific examples, just read it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922&user=123725 | ||
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Lynch scum first, make associations later. @ SloOsh Where were you during the night cycle? You didn't post at all, despite having relatively little suspicion on you and being a vet. @ iamp Heya! Are you all caught up yet? Thoughts on Hopeless and/or other scumreads would be sweet. | ||
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On January 16 2013 12:16 slOosh wrote: I was taking time off thread to reread carefully given the flip, and didn't have much confidence in my reads to see them worth dumping. I've had some hesitation in straight up building a case against scum WBG, given his reputation, and wanted to do the hopeless thing beforehand. With how I'm approaching my WBG case, do you disagree with my interpretation of things? Do you agree with his interpretation of things? Your WBG suspicions are predicated on the following: 1) WBG is wishy-washy. I agree with this, but is WBG wishy-washy as scum? I always took him as a very aggressive character in his scum-games. 2) WBG's attitude on Hopeless is scummy. However, making associations is absurd before Hopeless actually flips. What I'm most concerned with though is your sudden burst of "WBG is scum, here are all the reasons why!" You had all night to push him and question him, yet you did not do so. Instead, the second WBG votes you, you start flinging posts left and right about how he's your top scumread and how he's so scummy. The timing of all of this is incredibly convenient. | ||
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Between Hopeless and WBG, who do you think is more likely to flip scum? | ||
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Hapa especially had his vote in scummy places. Assuming of course that you are town, he swapped off of his scumread onto an unknown for policy like reasons. Super was the one who had to put his foot down and say fuck you all, we kill the guy we were going to kill. I don't think Ruuch was scum, so swapping off Prom (town) onto Ruuch (I think town) looks really scummy to me. Hapa fits that bill. How could he assume that someone is town? It makes no sense from a town perspective. He can't be the cop with a green check on iamp, since the cop is dead. Can't be mason buddies with iamp, since this happened: On January 15 2013 08:58 Hopeless1der wrote: Better than Prom ##Unvote: Lazermonkey ##Vote: Ruuch Solution? Hopeless is scum. He went from: a) Voting Ruuch b) Unsubstantiated town read on Iamp: I'm more inclined to believe bugs and Ruuch(Lamp) are town, so right now my choices to vote are Lazer and SlOosh, and possibly Hapa for no other reason than his vote was in scummy places. c) Assumes that iamp is town. @ Iamp On January 17 2013 00:29 iamperfection wrote: @ hapa Why do you have a strong town read on Mr. Zentor based on meta when he said before the game he was changing his style. When i read his filter i dont see many town like traits. He shirked his vote responsibility when he voted prom. He hasnt pushed many scum reads at all, He keeps screaming meta as his defense when he said before the game he would change it ... MrZ is lurk-tastic as scum. He is not lurk-tastic here. I got a very strong town feel for MrZ in the early game when he was driving a majority of the discussion. In his scum games, he very deliberately tries to avoid the spotlight. His early-game play is the opposite of that mentality. Furthermore, everything you mentioned above is the exact same thing he's done in his last two town games (Witchcraft + British Mini), both of which I was in. This is the exact same pattern, and I strongly believe he's town. As for him "wanting to change his meta," he was more active in the early game and generated more discussion than in any game I've been in with him. That's townie to me. | ||
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On January 17 2013 03:17 wherebugsgo wrote: I'd agree with that too, given that both thrawn and zentor simply swapped their votes over to slOosh as soon as I did. I think both slOosh and Hopeless are good lynches for today. If they are both scum, and it's certainly possible, who does that leave us with for a third scum? Grush? If one of them is not? My first concern is seeing Hopeless hang, and then we'll find the rest. SloOsh could be scum based on how he handled himself last night (flinging shit at you, willingness to compromise on Hopeless), but I'm not convinced. As for a 3rd, I have no idea. I was originally thinking Lazer, but given how hard Hopeless decided to push him, I don't think that's realistic. | ||
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On January 17 2013 03:30 wherebugsgo wrote: well, let's talk about it. You seem to be "not convinced" that slOosh is scum. Then, we are looking at TWO additional scum, not just one. So, who? I don't want to lynch Hopeless just to have him flip town and then have to start all over again like we had to do today. Chances are strong that if we don't talk now about these types of possibilities we won't be able to later. ignoring Zentor's activity, what makes him town? What's your opinion on grush? Lazer? If I had to pick two right now, I'd say SloOsh/Grush I have reasons to think everyone else is town. Iamperfection is being active and open, which is indicative of his town-play (especially this early after replacing in). Whether or not he sustains this activity will be how I ultimately read him, but so far he's being townie. Jay is also more active than I'd expect from his scum-play. MrZ is also being active and open. The things that people find "scummy" about him (early town reads, lack of pushing reads) are completely normal for his town-play. It's the attention-grabbing in the early-game that really makes me think he's town. The early town-reads, him drawing attention to himself through his activity... these aren't things that scum MrZ does. Xata is gunning for you WBG, and I find that horrendously brave for a scum to do. Especially for him. Lazer was pushed by Hopeless for most of the game. Outside his "slip" or whatever, I can't find any reasons that he's scum. Thrawn's early game voting and attention grabbing is indicative of his town play. And you WBG have been one of the more active and concerned players in recent days. | ||
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On January 17 2013 03:31 Xatalos wrote: Aren't you in the slightest suspicious of either WBG or Jay? Seriously, why? See the above post + my night-post for more info. What do you think about my case on Hopeless? | ||
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On January 17 2013 04:01 wherebugsgo wrote: By default that means you think the scumteam is hopeless, slOosh, and grush. Correct? Correct. I'm going to lynch Hopeless first, as I'm most confident about him. I have to account for the fact that I could be wrong about one of my town-reads. | ||
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On January 17 2013 04:33 slOosh wrote: Three scum? Where does it say that? It's a C9++ setup. There are almost always 3 scum in C9++ Have you ever seen a 13 player game with a number other than 3 scum? | ||
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On January 17 2013 04:40 slOosh wrote: Yea my first game ever, hosted by Qatol and dreamflower. Seriously? Geez that's imbalanced as fuck. | ||
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On January 17 2013 05:17 Lazermonkey wrote: Bugs, how do you go from:toIn just a couple of hours? And Hopeless didn't even say a thing during this time. Just you talking with Hapa and him calling the thread bad for not wanting to lynch Hopeless. @Hapa: did you read hopeless filter from LVIII? Yes I did. However that's only one game out of the multitude of his recent town games in which he played very aggressively. In addition, I can't rationalize his stance on iamp from a town perspective: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=52#1022 Votes Ruuch, afks for the entire night cycle, comes back and says he thinks iamperfection is town for no reasoning, then proceeds to make arguments against me based on the "assumption" of iamp being town. Furthermore, he stated that he didn't understand my reasoning for voting Ruuch, which is incredibly scummy considering that he voted Ruuch himself. | ||
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Nappy time. BB in a few hours. | ||
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On January 17 2013 09:08 Hopeless1der wrote: ... Question the second: Why did I vote for Ruuch? This is a really really good question. Why did you vote for Ruuch? Let's examine things. On January 15 2013 08:58 Hopeless1der wrote: Better than Prom ##Unvote: Lazermonkey ##Vote: Ruuch You voted him because you thought he had more chance to flip scum than Prom. This would imply that you had a really really strong town-read on Prom. Your strong town-read? On January 15 2013 02:47 Hopeless1der wrote: He has asked a lot of questions and generally follows them up. They don't appear to be useless and he seems to have read British Empire, which he didn't play in. He's going out of his way to interact with people, like asking you (sloosh) about xat's play in Paranoia, which again he didn't play in or me about my "policy", as discussed in an obs qt. In short, he's active and paying attention, pursuing information from outside of this game where possible. His "swapping" his stance on Xata was deliberate and pre-meditated to me, as evidenced by his post here: Further to the above, I don't recall him ever taking a proper stance on Xatalos until this post. His unvote of SS is sketchy, especially what Hapa pointed out, with the unvote reasons having nothing to do with the initial voting reasons. His case against Lazer, and followup to that are much stronger than his push against SS, which makes me wonder if his heart was ever in pushing SS to begin with. I'm leaning town on Prom. You were leaning town on Prom. You had a weak town-read on Prom. Yet despite "leaning town" on Prome, you adopted a stance of being willing to lynch pretty much anyone but him. You knew he was going to flip town, and you distanced yourself from his lynch. But once again, if you had a town-read on Prome, what's the purpose of all the bolded stuff? You had a town-read on Prome, yet half of your post flung shit at him. None of that makes any sense. @Lamp: Do you find my read of you suspicious, based on the posting, and circumstances surrounding the replacement, of Ruuch? By which I mean, do you think it is conceivable that I would arrive at a townread of you based on the limited information available? You still have not explained how you arrived at your town-read on Iamp. In fact I can't for the life of me figure out how you garnered a strong-enough townread on, given that Iamp had made 11 posts at the time you gave him a town-read. And it's not a weak town-read either - it's apparently strong enough to make you "assume" he's town in your analysis. That's complete bullshit. | ||
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I need to rest some, but I should be around from now until the deadline. Regarding Hopeless We still should be lynching him. What about his responses have convinced you that he's town? He's lurking, he's dropping reads with barely any justification, and he made a self-preservation vote 24-hours before the lynch deadline. Hell I can't see where he pulled his read on SloOsh from: I'm more inclined to believe bugs and Ruuch(Lamp) are town, so right now my choices to vote are Lazer and SlOosh, and possibly Hapa for no other reason than his vote was in scummy places. SlOosh, you asked me why I wasn't pushing my own read, but its not like I could have stopped you from voting Prom. The whole point of that exercise was to question my motives, not to see if I had anything new to contribute. Hapa is next to impossible to reason with, and when was the last time you saw grush respond to any form of logic? Attempting to get Lazer lynched when Prom was afk and super didn't give two shits (hell, he swapped onto a townread) wasn't remotely possible, and if you honestly believe I had a chance in hell, please tell me what you are smoking. Bugs' vote was on Zentor, until Ruuch showed his face. Bugs didn't do much to stop the Prom lynch, other than trying to get Ruuch at the last minute. This move puts him under suspicion, same as Hapa, but based on the night conversations, I believe only 1 of SlOosh and wbg are scum. I'm not discounting the possibility that both sloosh and wbg are scum, but it seems far less likely, and I think sloosh is more suspicious (/sheep bugs). Sloosh, LM, Hapa That's everything in his filter that could be considered suspicion on slOosh. And none of it is suspicion. It's just name-dropping and/or defending himself from sloOsh's line of questioning. Regarding SloOsh We should not be lynching him over a guy that has displayed numerous inconsistencies that are incompatible with a town-mentality (Hopeless). I have my doubts about SloOsh. He's interested in pushing Hopeless, and he's more active in his defense than you all give him credit for. I think we need to give him another day to prove himself one way or the other. In the mean-time, we need to lynch the scummiest guy in the thread - Hopeless. | ||
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On January 17 2013 12:35 iamperfection wrote: hrm it is interesting that hapa did this however When i was reading the thread i thought it was pretty clear that Ruuch was a super noob town and now hapa is going herp derp scum claim. Usally when hapa is town despite the tunnely aspect of his play he is open to other possibilities and very self aware of confirmation bias he may have. i'll have to sleep on this but for now ## unvote At the time, my vote on Ruuch was not due to his last-minute de-lurk, but also due to the manner in which he entered into the thread. He made a post, the entirety of which criticized/lectured "the town" rather than making any reads, which I thought I made pretty clear: On January 15 2013 08:54 Hapahauli wrote: So Ruuch. Why are you voting Promethelax. On January 15 2013 08:55 Hapahauli wrote: Because you just devoted your entire post to criticizing the town and none of it towards making any reads or observations. My vote was much more emotionally-driven than it should have been, but that's what I was thinking then. | ||
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On January 18 2013 03:17 slOosh wrote: Ehh ... disappointing. You guys let Mr Zentor and grush lurk away, you guys vote me on a comparison basis of WBG, many of you totally ignoring / avoiding commenting on hopeless (I can't tell the difference) and none of you seem to be concerned that hopeless is lurking now that the lynch is pretty much set. I'll read dump later tonight when I have time, and with my flip you maybe you guys will finally get it together, cause this has got to be the most frustrating town I have ever played with. Can you find some time to do this earlier? We're only 4 hours from the deadline, and resigning yourself to getting lynched is far from optimal if you're town. | ||
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On January 18 2013 03:17 Lazermonkey wrote: My main scum read died N1 you know. I had to reevaluate my reads alot after that. Can you explain how you changed your reads though? Telling us that you "re-evaluated" doesn't do much, especially when you voted WBG on Day 1, and are so willing to follow him right now. I can't figure out where your town-read on WBG came from. You went from this on Day 1/Night 1: On January 15 2013 08:42 Lazermonkey wrote: ##Vote: WBG It's never too late... On January 15 2013 23:41 Lazermonkey wrote: WBG, do you mind explaining this?What is an auto-town read? And what is sciberbias? He is a player afaik, so I guess it has to do with something he done in a game in the past. To your town-read today: On January 18 2013 02:45 Lazermonkey wrote: SlOosh. I'm not too sure of the next two players as my main scum target died tonight... However, I'm quite sure the two remaining scum are among Hapa grush Xata Jay Iamp MrZentor. On January 18 2013 02:38 Lazermonkey wrote: Okay, I'm killing SlOosh tonight. WBGs post about the timestamps + how he avoided to vote is convincing enough for me to vote him. ##Vote: SlOosh ...and you never give any explanation for it in your filter. | ||
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Hopeless1der is still scum. For all the reasons I've mentioned for the last 48 hours. Atleast 2 (possibly 3) scum should have been on the SloOsh wagon. SloOsh is one of the better town players on TL, and not wasting an NK on him was likely one of scum's priorities. On January 18 2013 08:55 Dandel Ion wrote: Votecount: Hopeless1der (5): Hapahauli, slOosh, Xatalos, iamperfection, grush57 slOosh (6): jaybrundage, MrZentor, Lazermonkey, wherebugsgo, thrawn, Hopeless1der Lazermonkey (0): hopeless set to be lynched! WBG/Thrawn - They seem the most concerned with scumhunting in the thread, and I think they're town. Jaybrundage - Nothing about his vote seemed malicious. He dropped a vote, pushed the lynch, and seemed very reasonable throughout. Leaning town on him. Hopeless - Is scum. MrZentor - I had him town earlier, but his activity has dropped off a cliff. On January 17 2013 01:41 MrZentor wrote: For the record, I would also love to lynch Sloosh. On January 17 2013 01:44 MrZentor wrote: ##unvote ##vote slOosh Gogogogogo This is all he mentions on the subject of voting SloOsh. However, I don't know why MrZ was so willing to vote SloOsh when he was so suspicious of WBG towards the end of Day 1: On January 15 2013 08:49 MrZentor wrote: Idk, WBG would certainly be a fun lynch. On January 14 2013 11:51 MrZentor wrote: Idk, WBG, Hopeless, Xata, and Hapa are all kind of shady. I'll try to narrow it down to one or two suspects tomorrow. In fact, one of MrZ's only "case" contributions this game happens to be on WBG: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=37#734 Given that WBG was the main driving force behind the SloOsh wagon, I'd expect more skepticism. The amount of trust he had for the SloOsh wagon reads a lot like he's pushing the wagon out of convenience. I think he's one who should be focused on tomorrow as well. Try to gauge his activity and responsiveness, because that's what tips his alignment more than anything else. Lazermonkey - I still don't know what to think of him. I have a hard time believing that a Hopeless (as scum) would bus his scumbuddy so hard. That being said, he has a 7 page filter and very little substance in there. He spends most of the time defending himself and making one-liners about one thing or another. His only major scumhunting contribution yesterday was the following: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=60#1198 And it's just a list without any substantial analysis, or evidence that he's closely reading the thread. I hope I have one more day to give him a closer look. | ||
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##Vote Hopeless1der | ||
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So where will you be placing your vote today? | ||
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On January 19 2013 09:43 Hopeless1der wrote: I'm confirmation biased, and have yet to properly make a case, so feel free to call this OMGUS until I substantiate: ##Vote: Hapahauli Still willing to lynch Lazer. Translation: "Since I haven't bothered to do so yet, I need to look through Hapa's filter and fling as much shit at him as I can." | ||
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If anyone wants me to reply to the Hopeless case, I'll do so. Otherwise, I don't think it's worth my time. It's almost entirely based on pre-flip associations with Lazermonkey. Given that, it's nonsensical for him to want to lynch me before seeing Lazermonkey flip. | ||
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On January 20 2013 05:00 wherebugsgo wrote: Let's not forget he has no reads outside of Hapa. I still want to hear from Hapa, but Hopeless in the meantime is not making himself look any better. Hey d00d, hear from me on what? | ||
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On January 20 2013 06:41 iamperfection wrote: Hapa adresss his case in full so the idiot dosent have an excuse for being quiet. The thing is, most of the reason he's "suspicious" of me is because of association with lazer. Which is nonsensical. Because if this is the case, why the fuck is he voting me instead of Lazer? "Lazer is scum, therefore I'm going to vote someone who's scum by association!" - this is not a town mentality. Otherwise, he pretty much looked through my filter and shoveled shit on anything he could find. Of note: My vote on Ruuch - I explained this earlier: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=60#1191 My stance on SS - Hopeless says that me changing my mind on SuperSoft is scummy on day one. Given the volatility of Day 1 play and reads, this is absurd. I questioned him a bunch, and him completely and openly ignoring me, coupled with is confrontational attitude in general made me lean town on him for most of Day 1. Hopeless's OMGUS - Basically Hopeless accuses me of "shitting all over him" and mis-interpreting his Meta. As for "shitting all over him" - it's called making cases and scum-hunting. As for his meta, Hopeless asserts that his play in Mafia LVIII was similar to his play here, and that I willfully ignored it. I wasn't in that game so I wasn't familiar with it. I reasonably drew on the two games I played with Hopeless in recent memory (Mario Mini + CT Mafia) in which he played completely differently. As for Mafia LVIII, one game he played passively as town doesn't outweight all the other games he aggresively played as town. In addition, WBG mentioned that he (hopeless) played as he did in LVIII due to time constraints. He had no such excuse here. But Hopeless acts like meta is a large part of my case. It isn't. He treats iamp/ruuch as town for questionable reasons, he soft-pushed the Prome lynch and is brushing it off like it's no big deal, he's had Lazer as a scum-read all game and has been zealously pushing OTHER targets all game , some by pre-flip associations with his top scumread. | ||
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Hopeless hasn't done anything over the last two days that has changed my mind. It seems as if some players were swayed by his Lazer "case," which is 90% the quotes of other players. Players are acting as if scum are incapable of resisting lynches. They are not. If Hopeless was bombing good cases and making original analysis, I'd think twice about his lynch. This is not the case. He's invoking the name of dead townies to push Lazer, and that was ONLY after I called him out for pushing everyone but his top scumread. | ||
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Fixed. | ||
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On January 21 2013 07:36 grush57 wrote: hapa, seriosuly u literally did nothing this whole game, and notice how he doesn't refute it he just edits my post pulling the ol' scum strawman argument. You are absolutely nothing alike in your town games. ##Unvote ##Vote: HapaHauli Why would I refute it? It should be plainly obvious that isn't the truth if you've bothered to read anything I posted on Hopeless over the last few days. | ||
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On January 21 2013 10:51 jaybrundage wrote: Hapa whats your thoughts given Hopeless's flip? Do you plan to give all your reads in case your shot? A lot of my reads were based around Hopeless flipping red, so I have some re-reading to do. Yes you can expect a read-dump towards the end of the day. | ||
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How did you go from this on grush: On January 21 2013 07:12 DearestSnot wrote: Notes: Iff hopeless flips town, Xata, Jay, and Lazer look much much worse. If hopeless flips scum, grush looks much worse. To this: On January 21 2013 09:18 wherebugsgo wrote: yeah, pretty much. I don't see how he can be town in this situation. He chose to be on the "correct" side of the lynch by not voting Hopeless almost at the last minute. He had very convenient doubts at convenient times. I'm not convinced Hapa is scum just based on Hopeless flipping town. Townies tunnel each other all the time. I'll reevaluate him but his arguments have been good and he has noticed things I would not expect scum to notice, so I doubt my read will change. Zentor is 100% town unless someone decided to do something incredibly retarded, and iamp is pretty clearly town I think. That leaves grush and the non-Hapa Hopeless voters. I am town, that leaves you two and jay. | ||
Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On January 21 2013 11:22 iamperfection wrote: Because he is scum Look at the other post that hope quoted just before he died. That was a terrible and scummy post by wbg I get that the patriots are getting beaten down and whatnot, but mood isn't an excuse not to be explaining your reads. + Show Spoiler + I HAD TO, YOU WERE ASKING FOR IT >> @ WBG On January 21 2013 11:25 wherebugsgo wrote: Think about it, are all the scum going to be on the same candidate? That's almost never true. I can't see any of the Hopeless voters being scum. That leaves grush plus whoever was on Lazer. Good point. It doesn't seem likely that scum would go all-out to lynch a player like Hopeless. I'll have to look at grush and iamp some more, though Iamp has seemed really townie overall. | ||
Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
I'm the 2nd Serial Killer (Fatter Bastard) Dandel did grant me a QT in which I could talk about my nefarious plans. Transcript in the spoiler below: + Show Spoiler + Hapahauli 01-17-2013 06:16 PM ET (US) SUCK MAH TITTIES! I also breadcrumbed my obesity earlier in THIS LINK. Just putting it out there. If you lynch me, we all lose =( | ||
Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Sooooo... ##Vote Hapahauli THAT WILL SHOW YOU DANDEL | ||
Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
<3 | ||
Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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