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zebezt
185 Posts
anyway... I find Oats more and more suspicious too. At first I thought he was just a lumbering fingerpointer, but I read some of his posts in another mafia game where he was town and he seemed much less aggressive there. (didnt have time to read through the whole thing though) Question to Oats Why did you change your playstyle from your previous game if you won there as town? | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
My first newbie game was fucking horrible and I was town, My chrono game was different because there were 20-30 people, I was one of the few newbies, It was my first actual game. So yeah, since then, I have become more confident to pressure people. Question to Oats Why did you change your playstyle from your previous game if you won there as town Are the differences scummy? or just different? | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
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zebezt
185 Posts
I don't find it necessary to share my townreads, since scum can benefit from those. For the rest I don't have any scumreads yet that I consider strong enough to pursue. Laguerte seems suspicious with his no lynch vote. I will look more into him later. | ||
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zebezt
185 Posts
I meant the chrono one. What is the basis of this sudden confidence? | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
Lurker: (stage whispers) Lets lurk the lynchers! Spag: *lynches townie that was lurking for no reason* The input so far for a lot of people is insufficient. I am one of those pro-LAL thugs, so if you lurk and you are town YOU WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR WEAKENING TOWN. If you are lurking you are wasting opportunities to both scum hunt and prove your innocence as town. IMO there is no scummier behaviour than lurking, I'm half way through the thread and the number of lurkers is spectacular. I even see cannibal lurkers calling each other into the lime-light when all they have up until that point is three or so posts. I trust the man that whispers naught but scummy temptation in my ear more than he who says nothing. If you feel you are in the bottom three most active people, and you are town, you are ACTIVELY handing the game over to scum. I hope for all of our sake you have picked up your activity since page [15]. I'm so sick of games being determined not by good players, but lurker filth. //back to catching up. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
I havent played mafia in more than a month before this game and wanted to get back to it. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
I have read through your commentary in more detail, and cant help but feel you are tunneling me.. trying to fabricate and meld associations to suit your objectives. I haven't seen you address Oatsmaster regarding this gem.. written in the final heartbeats of the lynch. On January 14 2013 12:59 Oatsmaster wrote: MOCSTA ARE YOU SURE THAT LAGUARTA IS SCUM? Did you even read through the exchange of posts I had with Acid~ all during the final hour of the lynch. The fact is.. the last hour of the lynch was a mess. People where throwing accusations around incessantly; and votes were flying too fast to remember. Whilst all this was happening, I had to deal with lurkers trying to engage actively with me. Should I remind you my stance on policy. On January 12 2013 13:13 Mocsta wrote: My answers to own questions Yes, if there is no strong scum read, vote off a lurker. If we create a good town environment, where people can contribute and not be scared, there should be no lurkers. That is my goal this game! My vote on Mandalore can be broken down as follows: He was my number one scum read. i didnt like his play and outlined his scummy motivations very clearly here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391615¤tpage=18#358 His responses provided no benefit to his cause. Even lurkers who had a plethora of targets to vote for, recognised this as a scum tell. Then along comes a lurker.. how do you even read his play with almost zero posts.. .and with such low contribution amazingly manages to be caught in a lie... how does that even happen? After all the confusion in the thread; the detailed discourse with Acid~; and the uncertainty over whether La Guerta was a sound choice..I was torn between enforcing the policy lynch of a lurker/liar (who could EASILY just be a bad townie); or lynching my top scum read from an entire days worth of analysis. On January 14 2013 17:44 shz wrote: You are constantly leaving outs and "invite" people to critize you. This could be town who wants transparency, this could also be scum who wants to play it safe for everything he does. If you constantly invite people to correct you, you will never be held accountable, because you said it yourself that you think you could be wrong. If you are the victim, you can't be the perpetrator. If you can't be the perpetrator you are town. Once again.. tunneling and interpreting quotes to suit your justifications. My open and transparent play style makes me an easy read. I welcome criticism because (1) I said it was a goal to reduce confirmation bias.. this can only help... and (2) I am trying to achieve the first goal of townies as stated in the general guide to playing mafia. On January 09 2012 15:49 Incognito wrote: Priority #1: Establishing Your Innocence + Show Spoiler + So, you know how to look for mafia and are ready to smoke them out. But unfortunately, just knowing how to find mafia is not good enough. The other part of the equation is convincing the town that you’ve found them. While you may be correct, it takes more than your own vote to properly seal the deal and kill off the mafia. As a townie, your number 1 priority is to establish your innocence. Why? Establishing your innocence does three things:
To elaborate: 1) It is hard to get people to listen to you if they are unsure of your motives. There are times where townies will ignore persuasive evidence based on an (irrational) fear that you might be pulling the wool over their eyes. Establishing your innocence allows you to focus on hunting the mafia instead of wasting energy defending yourself. 2) Very often, the mafia spreads doubt by inflating the importance of town mistakes. By establishing your innocence, you deny mafia the chance to attack you. 3) Sometimes the best way to find the mafia is by figuring out who isn't mafia. Every player who establishes their innocence gives the mafia less room to hide. The more people acting in obviously innocent ways, the more exposed the mafia become. Furthermore, if you can ensure that you won’t be the lynch target, you increase the town’s chances of lynching correctly and ensure that they don't get distracted debating your innocence. How do you establish your innocence? It is difficult to define parameters for this, but a good start is to know what benefits town, and act on it. As in the previous section, the town benefits from clarity, transparency, and direction. Try to contribute to these goals in whatever way possible. When you post, make sure there is a clear purpose to your post. Don’t repeat points of what other people have mentioned. Read the entire thread before posting, and don’t go back to old points unless you have something new to add to the discussion. Offer conclusions and clear opinions in your posts instead of rehashing information or being indecisive. How is this a safe play anyways? Why won't I be held accountable? I am the one that was here before, and is here now, answering the questions directed to me. All my contributions for Night 1 have been addressing you and Oats. You are again misconstruing facts to suit your agenda. | ||
shz
Germany2687 Posts
Why did you change it 1 min before lynch instead of 20 mins before, 2h before? If he was your top scum-read. Of course I'm gonna interpret quotes, this is what all this is about. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
(1) Frankly, I am over your confirmation bias. Im actually shocked your replied within... On January 14 2013 23:05 Mocsta wrote: On January 14 2013 23:16 shz wrote: 10 minutes. So this whole time, you have just sat here waiting. As soon as I reply.. bang ... you reply. You even ignore the quote from Oats I posted, which was a CLEAR indication of uncertainty in the thread. This guy is complete chest-out, guns-blazing attitude.. im right your wrong.. and in the final heartbeats of the lynch.. he is asking if im sure.... That you intentionally ignore this proof of chaos is beyond me Shz. -when I even highlighted it for you. I have been nothing but courteous since you have decided to pressure me. I will still continue to do the same. I have given you complete explanation for my vote. The rational is clear.. why did I not change 1 min or 20 min.. I already told you.. I was involved intensely in discourse with Acid.. Do you bother to check the time stamps when I asked you to? I gather not.. have a look at this..+ Show Spoiler + On January 14 2013 12:58 Mocsta wrote: All you keep saying is Im pointing fingers because you dont like that I found some posters overtly aggressive, and let them know that they may in fact be intimidating posters. Then, look at what your crux is; you are doing the EXACT same thing. You dont like my post style and are calling me out on it. Apparently you are fact, and I am not. As I said before, your arguments are wrong at best, and hypocritical at worst. Look at how quick you were to admit there is substance behind my posts; regardless of whether you think every post is valid, I have managed to elicit responses from more people than you. What have you done for town, other than sling shit over an active poster. You then sling more shit, saying I worded my suspicion funnily. How about instead of slinging shit, you take my post and break it down. I re-read it, and I have no idea what you are talking about. Its clear, concise and rational. Again more hypocritical behaviour. If you want to aid the scum hunt, I suggest you start by removing the hypocrisy from your posts. That was written 2 minutes before the deadline. You act as if I had meticulously decided to post last minute. Fact.. I finished the post to Acid, i saw the posts that were before mine.. and was already torn on policy lynch vs scum read when Omni started suggesting policy lynch was a bad idea. The posts I saw were enough to push my decision the other way. It was obviously I was frantic and panicking to get my revised vote through. yes, there is nothing new here. I have been open about my intentions with this lynch from the moment you started questioning me... you are merely seeking answers to associations that exist. Why arent you targetting others who got off the La Guerta bandwagon? your focused only on me... how can that not be confirmation bias? | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
you are merely seeking answers to associations that DO NOT exist. | ||
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shz
Germany2687 Posts
I'm still not satisfied with your answer, but this leads to nowhere anyway. You could have voted for him even hours before, if you were so sure. But whatever. Off to the next one. | ||
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shz
Germany2687 Posts
On January 14 2013 12:56 OmniEulogy wrote: ##Vote: Oatsmaster I don't like the constant vote jumping. Or pulling off Laguerta after jumping around so much. It makes me think you know who the townies are and have been testing to see which wagon sticks. That confidence in nailing Zebezt is bothering me too... I'm biased with my thinking past thing point. Don't wanna screw with anybody else I'll explain it after the lynch. I hope we can still expect your explanation? | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
Seriously.. you need to start reading what Im saying...( im not asking you to stop questioning Oats.) but I did not ask you to question him (as you implied above).. The quote I chose to elucidate was a reference to the chaos in the thread at the time. Oats reaction in context with his personality this game I think is a very good indicator of the disarray all the active participants felt. I can understand you not feeling this.. after all.. you made a conscious decision not to be involved around lynch time.. | ||
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shz
Germany2687 Posts
Could you explain why Manda got a pass from you in the D1 lynch? Any news on what you have learned from the lynch yet? What is your current stance on Zare and Laguerta? You voted both at some point. | ||
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shz
Germany2687 Posts
On January 14 2013 23:53 Mocsta wrote: after all.. you made a conscious decision not to be involved around lynch time. Do you want to imply something with that? On January 14 2013 23:53 Mocsta wrote: Shz Seriously.. you need to start reading what Im saying...( im not asking you to stop questioning Oats.) but I did not ask you to question him (as you implied above).. The quote I chose to elucidate was a reference to the chaos in the thread at the time. Oats reaction in context with his personality this game I think is a very good indicator of the disarray all the active participants felt. And I'm still standing by what I said, how is the chaos an explanation to switch from your firmly taken stance of lynching laguerta for lying to your "number one" scum-read minutes before the lynch? Again, nothing new came to the surface in terms of Mandalor, other than that your vote pushed him over the edge, in that period of chaos. | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
Omni you seem to have taken something on board from my defense of Corazon in XXXIII, and Zare you seem to be sheeping the sentiment. (1) - On day one there was no resistance to a lynch on Laguerta. (2) - If Laguerta were scum, his scum buddies would be worried and try and make another bandwagon (C) - Laguerta is not scum. This mirrors my argument in defense of Corazon precisely, though this may not have been causal. I was wrong in making that argument because Corazon was scum and he was being bussed day one. I wasn't incorrect in thinking that at this skill level people are too thick to bus day one, but I did make a massive error which my good friend DP (he is actually my friend in RL and the reason I started play mafia, he is not my good friend because he coaches scum) was so nice as to point out. DP told me: "I was coaching scum and told them to bus Corazon" You see how my theorycrafting failed to take into account that there was a certain level of organisation created by a scum coach being an active participant in both the scum QT, and exerting control via personal messages? If a scum is being bandwagoned hardcore day one, the coach will tell the other scum to let natural selection take its course. I am not going to make a case or vote yet, as I have only read up to [22], but I don't want you thinking for a second that just because Laguerta had seven votes that he is not scum. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
I was stating fact. You said earlier in the thread you would choose not to be present for the lynch. How is that not a conscious decision? .. Once again.. its already been answered... you are looking for an response that meets your expectations.. thats called confirmation bias.. I explain my motives quite clearly in numerous posts. You are the one refusing to accept it. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
The people that voted me are retarded. I really dont know what to make of the lynch yet, maybe after another flip, things will become clearer. What do you think about how the lynch went down? Laguerta hasnt posted since the 'no-lynch', I still think he is town. Zare, needs to follow up on this Mocsta has a LOT to answer for -- omgusing, over-defensiveness, and hammering Mandalor, who seemed especially not-scummy. Still pretty scummy | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
Things may have changed since I read this, but I thought I should post immediately because I don't want to be vegi'd, and a good way to stop that happening is by starting a pattern of contribution before he makes his night action (if he exists). I don't want to be vege'd, and I ask that if you do exist, know that I will be among the most active members (last time I even outgunned Mocsta). There will be no lack of information available on me, so I suggest you hit one of the lurkers or demi-lurkers instead. | ||
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