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On January 14 2013 12:33 glurio wrote:
I came in really late in the first day, a lot of arguments were already made, in this situation its highly unlikely to make a completely new argument for someone who was overlooked.
And i do believe there is never a reason to lie as a town player.
WTF... you have been lurking this whole time.
and now I name you,. you post...
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It wasnt an outright lie, actually I think town is more likely to lie in that way, since scum KNOW they cant vote no lynch.
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##Vote Oatsmaster
Has not been helpful towards town, was an active scum player in another game (so not necessarily a lurker scum), has unvoted FOUR times, most recently very late in the day when it was almost assured that Laguerta would be lynched regardless. His reasoning? "He's scummy but he's not here to defend himself. I'm gonna go vote for someone that nobody else is voting for and will definitely not get lynched, so when Laguerta flips town, I look good." (Okay, so not his literal read, but a possible motivation was thrown in there.)
His timing and his lack of reasoning worry me, and I find him to be far more likely to be scum than Laguerta.
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I agree, Sn0's random last minute vote without explaining himself, doesn't give evidence or anything... People have changed their votes around a lot... can we learn anything from that? is there anything anybody can see from the voting patterns? It's another long shot but I really don't think scum will vote for scum D1.
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Mocsta, you are confirmation biased.
I dont think Sno is scummy for attacking you, it created conversation which was a good thing and I had similar concerns as him.
How stupid is it as scum to vote you?
Sno-man, why are you voting Mocsta?
Is it because you dont like him? Or because he is scum?
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On January 14 2013 12:35 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 12:33 glurio wrote:
I came in really late in the first day, a lot of arguments were already made, in this situation its highly unlikely to make a completely new argument for someone who was overlooked.
And i do believe there is never a reason to lie as a town player. WTF... you have been lurking this whole time. and now I name you,. you post...
This is pretty good timing... lol
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What lack of reasoning? I dont see how laguerta would post like that as scum, and clearly you dont either since your vote is on me.
I want to lynch zebezt because he is scummy as fuck and reading through his filter he seems compentent enough but isnt actually trying to help town.
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zarepath.. i dont think Oatsmaster is a valid target.
he is aggressive yes.. and persistant yes... but if he was mafia. i think hes just sticking his neck out too far.. not a good play for Day 1.
Even though he didnt say it.. i think Acid post suggested him to look into zebezt..
But yes.. it is concerning there has been no contention to La Guerta.
@all
What do you make of Glurio suddenly making an appearance when called into question? Is this scum trying to justify his vote?
On January 14 2013 12:35 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 12:33 glurio wrote:
I came in really late in the first day, a lot of arguments were already made, in this situation its highly unlikely to make a completely new argument for someone who was overlooked.
And i do believe there is never a reason to lie as a town player. WTF... you have been lurking this whole time. and now I name you,. you post...
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On January 14 2013 11:27 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 08:16 Acid~ wrote:
(1)
To answer the question about Policy-lynching lurkers: As far as I'm concerned you are all guilty until proven innocent and anything you don't say will be used against you, so you better start talking.
(2)
@Mocsta:
You say you want to foster a positive town atmosphere, but you instantly lash out at anyone showing signs of aggression, which is an essential town trait.
(3)
It is you who hindered discussion on day 1, by drowning inquisitive players in walls of text containing little to no substance.
(4)
A few posts after agreeing with zare/omni about the need to build strong cases and making attacks based on rationality, you goad Oats into an OMGUS vote, with no other claim than "other people agree with me that you're fostering a bad town atmosphere".
(5)
What I want from you: quotes from Oatsmaster showing how he intimidated people into not posting, since this is your claim. OR admit that you were biased against Oats and a victim of confirmation bias
Acid, I welcome your contributions. I know you posted at the 11th hour, but the thoughts and motivations read genuine and original. Town should welcome these type of posts in particular from low post count participants. I am going to address the items you raised. (1) Agree with this completely. Everyone needs to prove with their actions they are innocent. Actions speak louder than words. At the same time, this sentiment has already been shared (myself included) so whilst I value the stance, we will see if your actions reflect your stance overtime. (2) Instantly lash out? My posts to Oatsmaster and Sn0_Man were written very respectfully. I think you are jumping to an unfounded conclusion. If I may remind you: + Show Spoiler [Calling out overt aggression] +On January 12 2013 16:38 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2013 14:22 Sn0_Man wrote:
I'm not denying, discussion is good/important and if nobody starts it scum autowin. However, if a scum can get control of town fast, they almost instawin. As a gambit, it seems fair since people like you are jumping in to defend him pretty fast.
... @Sn0_ManI appreciate the sense of energy you are giving back to this thread, and I certainly do not want to deter that; town needs this energy. BUT.. you are almost sounding "paranoid" - I know this, because after my last game, many assumed I was "paranoid". I think we both want the same thing, a town environment where people can voice their opinion and join together for the scum hunt. When you say "it seems fair since people like you are jumping in to defend him pretty fast"; that alienates participants from wanting to contribute. You are actually creating an environment scum can thrive in with that attitude - even though I doubt that is your intention. I ask that you please think about the above. On January 13 2013 07:18 Mocsta wrote:
EBWOP
On January 13 2013 07:14 Mocsta wrote:
Wow. Thats it over the night shift.
Oats u sound like sno_man.
perhaps the aggresion u 2 have shown is why there is a lack of discussion.
I think u should read what i posted to him.
My questions are ice breakers and i have not a genuine comment from
*YOU*
to stimulate town conversation. In fact. You are deterring conversation.
@oatsmaster
Why should i NOT treat is the outcome of your agressive posts [stopping fluid and positive town conversation] as scummy motivations
Personally, I do not know how that is lashing out? I think its being respectful.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... I don't care how respectfully it's presented, the fact is that you only pointed fingers at people after they started pointing fingers at you, you did this with both Sn0_Man and Oats, now you're doing it with me.
If you want a reminder of the posts I responded to here you go + Show Spoiler [Aggressive Posts] +On January 12 2013 14:04 Sn0_Man wrote:
Mocsta
2) How do you think scum would try to get influence with us?
From what I have seen in my 2 games, it depends on the person. Some have lurked hardcore, some have given minimal contributions.
If we have a solid town atmosphere, and people can share opinions freely, I am sure we can reduce the influence!
2) With posts just like your one aboveOn January 13 2013 00:52 Oatsmaster wrote:
Mocsta stop being useless and repeating what other people have already said.
On January 13 2013 00:55 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2013 13:09 Mocsta wrote:
Hi All.
From other games, it seems the best 3 questions to ask are:
1) Stance on Lurkers: i.e. Do you policy lynch?
2) How do you think scum would try to get influence with us?
3) [fluff] DONT BUY A POOL. I wasted all my time today with pools and hate it !
I won't be around for the next 6 to 8 hrs (DAMN POOL!)
Question 1. How does a yes/no question start discussion? Thats right, it doesnt. Question 2. How is that relevant in a game of Newbies where everyone is just trying to provide an answer that may not be accurate. Question 3. Please dont mention pool. Again. (3) How. My posts have plenty of substance. I have followed up my reads and tried to get others to contribute regularly. Where is your evidence to back up your assertion; this looks to me like flinging shit at the most active player Day 1.And how am I drowning out discussion. I am Active, I am Open, and my play is Transparent. My game is completely ab-lib, and Im doing this all whilst figuring this game out. Just because my filter is large does not prevent others from posters. I have been actively asking others to contribute, whilst giving my own input. This looks to me like trying to justify your own woeful activity this game. Remember, you are guilty till proven innocent.
Well, your posts do have some substance, but not nearly enough for their size and number. We don't need to be privy to your every thought. A lot of times, you're repeating yourself or paraphrasing someone else, or just talking into the wind - saying we need to do this and that, should do this, but not doing it yourself.
(4)
When did I GOAD Oatsmaster into OMGUS. Provide evidence to back this up. I call him out of line, and then his beviour did not change. I cast my suspicion on him, and gave benefit of the doubt.. it would be poor townie play to instantly vote, we need to question our reads. .. Since when did casting suspicion count as "goading a reaction" .. its all part of scumhunting and Oatsmaster is accountable for his own actions.
I agree we are all accountable for our own actions and Oastmaster, while hot-headed, did not do anything really scummy. His only "crime" was to call you out on a few points that I would have made myself, had I been there.
The post where you give him the FoS is cleverly written, you know you are dealing with an emotional player and the way you worded your suspicion seems to me as designed to provoke a reaction.
(5) What is even the intention of this question. The fact is.. if people were intimidated they would not post. Oatsmaster himself identifies he is partially responsible the lack of a solid scum read (at the time).. Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 20:59 Oatsmaster wrote:
The problem I have with Mocsta isnt that he is 'leading' town, Its that there are less than 12 hours left ( I like to repeat this) And no one has a solid scum read. And I dont think its my fault totally.
. I think if you interpret context at the time, the lack of scum read had to do with the minmal discussion (and you were a large culprit of the lack of contributions)
Hence; When I re-read your post I finish my impressions are as follows: You have come into the thread after lurking the entire first day, and have thrown shit around and posted with strong emotions. Regardless, I am still glad your are finally starting to do something, but, as I have broken down above, its not actually scum hunting. So far all I have seen are arguments that are wrong at best, and hypocritical at worst. Some of us would even suggest this is scummy behavior. I am going to watch you keenly over your next few posts and determine whether you are scum or null.
What I am doing is the very definition of scum-hunting.
1. I am asking important questions from someone on whom I have doubts (you) in hopes that the discussion will reveal alignment.
2. I am actively campaigning for votes on my strongest scumread (Zebezt), who still has not answered my questions.
There are no emotions here, just facts. Pray tell, exactly what should I be doing differently in order to expose scum?
What you are doing, on the other hand, is pointing the finger at anyone who doesn't agree with you, which is emotional and the opposite of efficient scum-hunting.
I haven't accused you. Yet.
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Vote Count!
If your vote is not properly formatted it will not be counted. Everyone is required to vote.
Laguerta (4) - Mandalor, Glurio, Shz, Mocsta, Zarepath, Oatsmaster, OmniEulogy
zebezt (2) - Acid~, Oatsmaster
Sn0_Man (1) - Zebezt, Trotske, Mocsta
Mandalor (1) - Trotske, Mocsta, Oatsmaster
Mocsta (1) - Sn0_Man, Oatsmaster
Oatsmaster (1) - zarepath, Mocsta
bringaniga (0) - shz, Oatsmaster, Mandalor, Laguerta
shz (0) - OmniEulogy
Acid~ (0) - Zarepath, OmniEulogy
No-Lynch (1) - Laguerta
Currently Laguerta is set to be lynched! If you see that anyone's vote is incorrect then pm me. You have about 20 minutes left to vote! Deadline is at 04:00 GMT (+00:00).
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Glurio, do you think that laguerta is scum?
@Mocsta,
I dont think its really scummy in itself, we are nearing lynch and people will start to show up.
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On January 14 2013 12:34 Mocsta wrote:
Well.. if you wanted to swap.. im not comfortable with zebezt
I read his filter, and OK, he is not the most "direct" scum hunter, but we already have Oatsmaster for that role.. I see him as a townie.. and its got nothign to do with him agreeing with some of my concerns. In fact, he actually questioned me regarding a few.
Also.. he didnt share TOWN reads (like some individuals) he shared SCUM reads... remember.. its alot harder for scum to present scum reads as they are openly lying... Town or scum can produce a town read and feel true to themselves.
So far, the play from Sn0_man hasnt done anything to suggest zebezt was wrong in naming him as a scum read.
If I am confirmation biased with this assessment, let me know? Because I have done my best to take a step back here and consider the information.
So far, Sn0_Man hasn't done -anything- at all, really. I don't know about confirmation bias and I have no read on Oastmaster either way, but read Zebezt's filter again: he didn't share scum reads, he repeated/paraphrased someone else's read.
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Its actually just what you wrote. Im answering when called into question. I already justified my vote in the same post i voted.
I really dont like Oats vote hopping, he voted like what 5 times now? Started with strong cases and then just dwindled into really short statements.
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Are you calling this a justification?
laguerta: States in post 1 that he is against NL, votes for no lynch. That and describing himself as being lazy town i really dont like.
So do you not like his play?
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On January 14 2013 12:46 glurio wrote:
I really dont like Oats vote hopping, he voted like what 5 times now? Started with strong cases and then just dwindled into really short statements.
The game changes.
Who do you think is scum.
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EBWOP: I missed Sn0's last minute vote on Mocsta, which definitely baffles me.
I would still like to hear more from Sn0 regarding this, although it doesn't look good right now.
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7 minutes to vote,
If you guys think that laguerta is scum, by all means, vote for him.
If you cannot justify scum behaviour in his posting, vote for someone else, preferably zebezt cause he is scum.
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It's stupid to lie as town, but the arguments (mafia doesnt defend, stupid newbie play) kinda swayed me. He might just be a bad town player.
##Unvote
##Vote: Mandalor
I'll go with my number one scum ready. He just got too emotional for my taste.
Also you look scummy to me oats.
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##Vote: Oatsmaster
I don't like the constant vote jumping. Or pulling off Laguerta after jumping around so much. It makes me think you know who the townies are and have been testing to see which wagon sticks. That confidence in nailing Zebezt is bothering me too... I'm biased with my thinking past thing point. Don't wanna screw with anybody else I'll explain it after the lynch.
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Vote Count!
If your vote is not properly formatted it will not be counted. Everyone is required to vote.
Laguerta (3) - Mandalor, Shz, Mocsta, Zarepath, Oatsmaster, OmniEulogy, glurio
zebezt (2) - Acid~, Oatsmaster
Mandalor (2) - Trotske, glurio, Mocsta, Oatsmaster
Oatsmaster (2) - zarepath, OmniEuology, Mocsta
Sn0_Man (1) - Zebezt, Trotske, Mocsta
Mocsta (1) - Sn0_Man, Oatsmaster
bringaniga (0) - shz, Oatsmaster, Mandalor, Laguerta
shz (0) - OmniEulogy
Acid~ (0) - Zarepath, OmniEulogy
No-Lynch (1) - Laguerta
Currently Laguerta is set to be lynched! If you see that anyone's vote is incorrect then pm me. You have about 3 minutes left to vote! Deadline is at 04:00 GMT (+00:00).
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EPT
