[T] MTG Mini Mafia II
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On January 25 2013 03:15 Clockwork Hydra wrote: You are quite obviously the inferior hydra. You're the artificial one. ![]() | ||
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Fear (This creature can't be blocked except by artifact creatures and/or black creatures.) | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + ![]() | ||
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~Hopeless I will be signing posts with my name. It'd be nice if the other hydras could do so as well, but to each his own I guess. Also as general housekeeping, if you derp on the hydra account (its almost inevitable) could you quote your post using the correct account? Thanks <3 | ||
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On December 25 2012 04:12 strongandbig wrote: More people sign up for this!!! not too many slots left and it's gonna be awesome. Also, I'll probably be hydra-ing with Marv. On January 25 2013 07:32 strongandbig wrote: Huh I need to make a hydra account for me and marv.... ~Hopeless | ||
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On January 29 2013 08:53 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Also, if someone even dares to play a 0/X creature with no abilities, then I'll seriously have to consider "policy lynching" you Why 0/X creatures suck: If you are scum, then it means that you have 1 blockable and basically indestructible monster. Thus, town have to spend more effort/time to kill you, thus you survive longer If you are town, then it means that maybe a random scum won't attack you directly that easy....maybe? If you are town, try to establish your innocence (preferably following the commandments above). If you do, then no townie should attack you AT ALL the whole game. If scum want to attack you, they have to FoS you first. If they do it badly the rest of town will fuck him up, so don't worry, don't be afraid and put a 0/X beast just to "defend" yourself. If you do however, we also can't know if you are mafia or not, since 0/X creatures are good for mafia as well. So you basically confuse the hell out of town, and maybe even convince town to kill you If you have a 0/X beast to play, please tell us first, and most importantly tell us why you are playing it, so we don't try to "policy kill" you. I'll heavily consider killing anybody that doesn't follow this. I also don't see many downsides to stating to the thread what you are playing before you do (if it's something unblockable, etc), so consider doing that. For instance: I'm playing BlooodStained Mire, a land card right now Has no effect at all for now (I'm not activating it until I consult with Prom) My reasons for having 0/X creatures are completely separate from the merits of playing Mafia. They were selected based on the supposed synergy they provide for my deck. In addition, my deck was selected before my alignment so your entire argument is completely invalidated. I have 0/X creatures and I will play them because they further my goals, and ultimately the town's goals since I need my deck to function in order to do anything. If you feel the need to policy an 0/X creature, you're doing it wrong. ~Hopeless I'm headed out to dinner. | ||
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0/x creatures are not walls. Regarding minds aglow, we'll need time to actually use it so the sooner the better. However we all need to play our land (which I havent) so unless we can do both actions simultaneously I ask that you hold off a bit | ||
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On January 29 2013 10:58 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Also, how about a "if marv doesn't post anything at all lynch him" policy kill this game? ![]() You won't get away with it this game buddy ![]() Also, just like I did in the previous game: Read the whole thread before deciding to cast anything with mana cost Have to be careful about scum casting stuff to avoid the plan, then saying "oops! Didn't read the thread!" Hopefully stupid townies don't do it either. I read the thread. I have 0-mana creatures. What now? On January 29 2013 11:19 Stutters695 wrote: Haven't we established that using as much mana as possible isn't entirely helpful? Drawing is great but if we mill ourselves were ditching a lot of potentially powerful cards when we discard to seven since we won't have mana. Since you haven't mentioned it, what are your thoughts on forcing the scummiest players into contributing their mana for it? Where dem scums at? I would like to play as many cards as I can so that I can have as empty a hand as possible, assuming Mind's Aglow gets played. I can play 4 cards, and I mulled down to 6. I'll need to spend 1 mana to do so, so I'll have room for 5 and I can contribute 1 mana to the draw. | ||
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~Hopeless | ||
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On January 29 2013 11:40 Hopeless1der wrote: Well on that note, I think you should be able to play zombie infestation instead of contributing anything to the draws so that you can benefit sooner (because you'll be able to discard this turn, right?). I'd like to take a collective voyage next turn, as I'm running basic lands. Feel free to flame me for that all you want. In the meantime, I still need to read the first MTG, so away I go. ~Hopeless Dur I'm awesome at hydraing | ||
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On January 29 2013 12:04 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: If you're reading it this way, you're reading it wrong. Perhaps, but at the moment he's the try-hardiest of us all. Are you suspicious of ThePoster marv, or just depressed about the level of play he's exhibiting? | ||
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I want to play my creatures. They're 0/X for 0-mana (x2). Comments or concerns will be addressed when I wake up and/or when my hydra-head sees them. As stated, I'd like to spend 1 mana on casting spells and 1 mana on Minds Aglow. On January 29 2013 11:40 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Do you agree with my plan? If so, then we have to wait for you to use your mana, and preferably casting those creatures. Also, if the plan is to get people 2/4 cards, then it won't matter if you play "as many cards", because if you play too many cards, and we draw a lot of cards for you to get 7, then lots of players will have to discard cards /G I'm trying to explain what I want to do and why I want to do it. If you don't want my reasons for my actions, I'll just play whatever the hell I want, but I was under the impression we were trying to make "plans", so I detailed what actions I could, and more importantly, wanted to take. I'm not trying to force players into discarding for no reason. With respect to your plan, I'm assuming it was the "scummy players pay for the draw". I have a very hard time believing the thread will come to a consensus on which scummers will be forced to pay. I believe it's a pro-town card, and I want to draw more cards. I would like to contribute if I can. ~Hopeless | ||
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this is the second RockHydra head, zebezt I'm on euro time, and I'll be mostly posting in the euro evenings, just so you guys know when to expect activity from me. Regarding the 0/X creature thing, we just happen to have those in our deck. They are free to cast, so they won't make us waste mana. They are an important part of the deck, so not casting them would be bad for us, and therefore town. I don't think we need to waste more time discussing this. Everyone wants to play the deck they have as well as possible. The drawing cards thing works out well for us, since our hand is crap right now. I think the whole let the scummy players ploy is only going to generate a lot of confusion. How do we decide who is scummy? Why would people listen? Just let people decide on their own. I think the risk of a milling deck is minimal. Does anyone here have a deck like that? Please speak up now or forever hold your peace/peas/pee If everyone just contributes all the mana they don't need then we will all get a nice amount of cards, and everybody will be happy. /zebezt | ||
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On January 29 2013 16:13 BinOnFire wrote: IGrok has posted absolutely nothing of use so far, only like 3 serious posts. Really not looking good. This post especially Like he is roleplaying, then goes into serious mode, then goes into roleplaying. Lynch him. Although this last post isn't too bad, I agree on the roleplaying thing. It's too easy to hide behind your roleplaying gig as scum. It makes you hard to read which is bad for town. /zebezt | ||
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This format makes it very easy for scum to hide, because you don't have to make big commitments to votes. Is it useful to start up a voting system and then just all attack whoever gets voted to the top? Or will this make the game too much like normal mafia and take the fun out of it? I think it might be a good idea. We can try to catch scum by their voting. Also we would get to see flips earlier, which gives us extra info. Does anyone have thoughts on this? /zebezt time to work now | ||
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On January 29 2013 18:02 Oatsmaster wrote: Well, I dont think that the 'voting' system will work to well cause you cant really enforce people to 'vote'. Ok what do you guys think about a lynch all lurker's policy, where we hit the person with the lowest post count with all that we got? Easy, whoever doesn't vote gets attacked instead of the top voted person. Not voting = not committing = scum Lynch all lurkers is a lazy way to do things. And just going by post count seems to be a TERRIBLE idea. /zebezt | ||
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On January 29 2013 19:32 zebezt wrote: I'm assuming you are Oats. If you seriously can't figure out why just counting the number of posts somebody has is the best way to decide who should die... I'm not gonna waste time explaining it. bleh hydra'ing is hard /zebezt | ||
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On January 29 2013 21:07 Acrofales wrote: @RockHydra: what flavour of storm are you running and should we be worried you can kill us all if you draw a monster hand? I had to look up what you meant with storm. Bit of an oldschool player myself. If you are referring to this: http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Storm then this deck does not depend on that. This deck does not benefit more than the average deck from having a lot of cards in hand. I will wait before my other head is back before revealing more about the deck, since it is his creation. /zebezt | ||
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On January 29 2013 21:07 Acrofales wrote: @RockHydra: what flavour of storm are you running and should we be worried you can kill us all if you draw a monster hand? Nothing like that. Its a ninja deck. I've also come to the realization that a good chunk of my synergy went out the window, with the second main phase being cut. On January 29 2013 21:27 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Apologetic, defensive, wishy washy? Hits them all. Hi scum, welcome to the thread! You don't get to play the noobie card, and if you're scum with marv, you need to streamline your tactics so only one of you does it next game. Coincidentally, mind telling me what you think of Marv? Why is Crossfire forbidden from playing the noobie card? I actually would like you to explain why his apologetic entrance is scummy, because I have no issue with what Cross put down there. He was wishy-washy on policy, not scumhunting so that also speaks to the "noobie" side of the coin. ~Hopeless | ||
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How does your deck actually win? I could imagine that using Minds Aglow a couple more times after the first one (after a round of getting extra lands) would help people through their decks very fast. | ||
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On January 30 2013 00:40 zebezt wrote: I'm kinda hoping that Artanis has filtered out such overly aggressive decks. /zebezt jesus this hydra thing is hard | ||
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On January 30 2013 02:00 Hopeless1der wrote: I have two phyrexian walkers I wish to play. Any objections? This shouldn't be this difficult. | ||
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On January 30 2013 02:03 Clockwork Hydra wrote: No real objection to playing them I guess, but why do you have phyrexian walkers in a ninja deck? ~dandel ninjutsu into free creatures | ||
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I can't say I have anyone who I really think is scum yet. iGrok is the trolliest of us, so he's the lowest level of null in terms of who I would be inclined to attack. Clockwork and ThePoster are active and from my perspective are trying to steer the town in the "correct" (whatever that means) direction from their point of view. Stutters has yet to follow through on: On January 30 2013 00:48 Stutters695 wrote: I'm up, catching up now. I'm willing to let slide the initial posting because he said he was at work. I initially found it scummy that ThePoster took a swing at stutters for being afkish last night, but he's done that to almost everything in the thread (looking at you gonzaw). Stutter's you caught up yet or what? You should have had plenty of time by now, give us something. Regarding Xfire, and what I asked Acro to expand upon -> If you haven't seen cross' mafia play from Mario mini, consult with Dandel (he co-hosted). I believe I can "feel" his enthusiasm towards this game and based on what I've seen of his scum play, my gut-read is town on him from his opening post alone. Obviously this is a meta read, but his filter is too short to make anything more than that out of it. BinOnFire seems to have a very pro-town deck setup, so his posting so far, while generally beneficial for town, is pigeonholed due to the nature of the deck he's running. Aside from wanting to keep him around because we will all benefit, I don't see any great contributions to develop a town OR scum read on him. I'm null on Nova. His posting doesn't give off scumvibes, and he gave out reads seemingly as soon as they came to mind when he found his way into the thread. However, he developed a suspicion on CH and went off on a speculation tangent: + Show Spoiler + On January 30 2013 02:47 Nova_Terra wrote: 2 things before dinner: I feel that ThePoster is doing a fine job, and has been attempting to do more actual scumhunting and pro-town things than the rest of us. Compared to CH, where I find that much if not most of the time he has been trying to explain why he feels that Minds Aglow is good for the entire town, not only for him. the second thing is related to this: How is Minds Aglow particularly pro town? If we have to discard back to 7 anyway, I don't like giving CH 10 zombies. Why? Because if he gets 10 zombies before we can get anything that could even come close to rivaling that and he turns out to be scum, we're screwed. Thats like mafia having 30 kp, and we couldnt even be sure if he IS scum because he could just target "scummy" town players. kill 2 of them, and the games like, over. unless someone draws some miracle, that is. Generally waiting to see what SMTD does, as marv isn't exactly readable day1 and SnB has posted very little. | ||
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~Hopeless | ||
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Sorry I wasnt around last night. Was out playing bridge like an old lady Havent read everything yet, but Aperture is sure sounding scummy to me with this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=389088¤tpage=23#455 so super victimized. I'm not even sure if that many people said he was scum, just that he should stop with the stupid trolling. You might say it's how he always plays, but if he always plays like an idiot he is only going to learn to improve if he dies early every time. | ||
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On January 30 2013 10:28 marvellosity wrote: [image blocked] This made my morning | ||
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Seems like there is a lot of posts, but most of it involves the raging and is fairly useless. I will try to actually do some scumhunting tonight. going to also contribute a mana to the card drawing thingie | ||
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On January 30 2013 01:05 Clockwork Hydra wrote: You are running really scared of what scum *might* do, instead of thinking of what they probably WILL do. If there is some deck that will combo out everybody on T2, then it is 3.5x more likely to be on town side. Meaning we have a 7:2 chance of town winning on T2, right off the bat. Maybe we should discuss deck strategies a bit more and who is playing what, in order to decide whether any potential combos will fuck us over, or win us the game. Thereby shifting the probabilities even further in our favour. Also, you only have to fear zombies, if you're scum. Are you scum, iGrok? Your extremely cautious play indicates to me that you are. A townie being afraid of all the potential ways he can die would try to figure out whether they can and will actually happen, rather than fear monger with it. Also, as I said above, townies have statistics on their side and thus less reason to be scared. /Acro The underlined part is just not true. Don't post lies unless you wanna appear scummy. | ||
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On January 30 2013 07:59 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Rock (zeb especially): I want to hear more from you. I know how excited you were for this and I happen to know you better than anyone in this game (since I was your town coach) give me something to work with here. p I realize I haven't posted much. I will try to get some contributions in tonight. | ||
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On January 30 2013 21:20 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Not a lie. It's entirely from my point of view, but it's not a lie. /Acro If you tell people how to feel, it might be better to look at it from their POV. /zebezt | ||
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On January 30 2013 22:22 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Why, that's completely pointless. If you tell me that you're afraid of the dark, I'm not going to look at it from your point of view. I'm going to tell you that you shouldn't be afraid of the dark and give you a bunch of reasons for why the dark isn't scary. You know why zombies aren't scary if you're not scum? Because they won't attack you! "You have poor social skills" (from Silver Linings Playbook) | ||
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Nice work, grok/aperture pretty impressed with the effort. Hope it was fun for you ![]() This is setting a high standard for analysis. I must admit I kinda missed the link at first too when I glanced over it. Never seen the spreadsheet approach before. | ||
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On January 31 2013 03:14 BinOnFire wrote: My other high-priority read is RockHydra, mostly due to this empty promise of his: So what does he actually post? Lazy sheeping, baaa. Actual contributions? Neigh! Don't be an idiot. If I post in my morning that I'm going to post in the evening, you should wait till it's actually evening before complaining about empty promises. I'm now gonna do some reading n posting. /zebezt | ||
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On January 31 2013 03:10 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: So who do you think is that scum hydra? If you are not the scum hydra, at least help us get him. Also that's the truth marv. Or rather it's something I know WILL happen in this game (it's kind of inevitable). You can't just say "Fuck you just make a decent read on me, if you don't it's your fault", mafia doesn't work like that. /G I find this whole "people assume there must be a scum hydra" thing of yours to be suspicious. I don't think anyone specifically said there must be a scum hydra. It seems like you are trying to push the discussion in a certain direction without a good reason. Is it likely that there is a scum hydra? Yes, because there are so many hydra's. Is it unlikely there is no scum hydra? Not very unlikely. (12%) It is as likely a lone player is scum, as that a hydra is scum, so why look at hydra's only? /zebezt | ||
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They seem town enough to me. MG makes a good point about the cards that they play. They are helpful to town. Of course we have to see how that pans out next turn, but right now we don't have much in the way of damage to throw around anyway. The main source of confusion seems to be oats, who is playing very weirdly. I think this is just down to bad play. Played with him in newbie game and he did not make a very strong impression on me there. My thoughts on CW: Seems happy to have people play a card that will help him a lot, although he was wary of cards that help a certain person too much. Makes total sense to me. Anyone will be happy if a card is played that helps them, wether they are scum or town. I am wary of giving too much power to CW, but I would love it if a card would turn out great for me. /zebezt | ||
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On January 31 2013 05:01 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Well, I'd like to see that math of yours. I got that there is a 9% chance no hydra is scum, and that's if scum are chosen uniformly (I might have gotten it wrong though) Take away uniformity to take balance and stuff into account, and that chance is even smaller. Take into account that Nova doesn't seem to be scum, thus that the only way no hydra is scum is if both Stutters+Crossfire are scum, and that chance goes even lower and lower. Also lol: If I am scum, then what I'm saying is 100% true isn't it? I want to put attention on hydras, and not let anybody fly under the radar. Again (I've said this like 10 times), so we don't repeat what happened last game. I won't 100% oppose a Stutters+Crossfire scumteam though, if there is evidence for such. And I'd probably not oppose it after someone flips, not before most likely. /G Bleh.. I kinda forgot you are a hydra too, since you never sign your posts ![]() Also I was wrong on the math. *sigh I should sleep early tonight. On third attempt I arrive at 8% (3/9)*(2/8) I might be off on that again though. Why do you think Nova is not scum? I just looked through his filter He did not post a whole lot. Did not scumhunt very hard. Made some "me too" posts. Didn't really scream "town" to me /zebezt | ||
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Is that likely to happen? /zebezt | ||
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On January 31 2013 05:33 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: @Rock: What do you think of Suck? You haven't mentioned them in that "thoughts" post of yours. Also again, if you had to choose, which one of Nova/Cross/Stutters is scum and why? Or if you think all 3 are town, explain to me why you think Cross is town What's your "updated" read on Bin? What about the other hydras? If you guys are going against Nova+Stutters/etc, remember: It's VERY unlikely 2 of them are scum. Thus, if you find Nova suspicious, you basically find Stutters and Crossfire like confirmed town. Same with the other 2. Thus, if you put suspicion on any of them, before spouting stuff in the thread (or rather before actively FoSing any of them), think about how that changes your read on Stutters/Crossfire, and see if it's consistent and you agree. If you think something is wrong, then better reconsider your initial push (unless you want to pressure the guy, which is fine I guess) I am suspicious of Crossfire, and I don't see any inconsistencies with my reads on Nova and Stutters, thus I'm slightly more confident in that read. A question! I'm going to ignore it first, because your statement that if nova is scummy that stutters/cross are almost confirmed town is of course non sense. If Nova is confirmed scum, then stutters and cross are just as likely as anyone else to be scum. Aaaaaaaaaanyway, I'm gonna take your word for it for now that Nova is playing normally. I don't have the time to check it unfortunately. Between stutters and crossfire, crossfire is the obvious choice just because of the lurkiness. I've read through both filters, and neither struck me as very scummy or townie. Crossfire hardly posted anything at all though. The game is still short though.. so that might all change. Crossfire made some excuses about not knowing mtg very well, but hasn't done any of the normal scumhunting either. As a bonus, my read on DFTP: seemed scummy to me at first, but for no good raisin. Tried reading his filter, gave up, seemed genuinely angry at the trolling though, so that's nice. Also warning people to play their cards is appreciated. So feeling a bit more confident on towniness now. Now im going to play shuriken! ninja hydra ftw! /zebezt | ||
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I've just caught up with the thread, I'd like to echo this: On January 31 2013 07:23 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: I don't think I've ever read anything that less demonstrates how someone is mafia. For that, I congratulate you. -marvelbabe In no way does this constitute a townread on suckmytopdeck, but I didn't find much in that case. For one thing, it only addressed the FIRST PAGE of SuckMyTopDeck's filter. He was up to four pages at the time of posting. As to what was asked of my hydra-head, I'm not sure if you specifically wanted zebezt's read or a read from "us", but I can't read marv day 1 for the life of me. He's null until he fails to give a shit as the game progresses. SnB is banking heavily on his "experience" from MTG (I) as far as I can tell. They've both started to show suspicion towards Nova, which is completely reasonable to me. I also have a problem with cross neglecting to tell us anything about what he's doing, so I agree with DFTP (both of them) On January 31 2013 08:02 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Cute scum claim cross, good to see you working with town on this one. P I also have a good fucking reason to dislike the presence of deathrite shaman on the board, so that's an even bigger kick in the nuts from Cross. I have no reason to attack this turn, so I'm not gonna. I wouldn't mind if cross pointed his goblin guide at me since I can block it with minimal/no repercussions (aside from a tapped goblin). ~Hopeless | ||
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On January 31 2013 08:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Attack Phase 1 has now begun. Remember that all creatures have haste. ALL creatures, or creatures played during Turn 1 (as per the OP)? Also, I think SnB asked, the ninja deck is just for fun. My draw looks alright, but I'm not really going to be a powerhouse for a while, if at all. ~Hopeless | ||
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On January 31 2013 10:05 Hopeless1der wrote: Nova vs Suck Colors are relative and not necessarily representative of strong reads Aperture That analysis post/link is awesome as far as scumhunting goes. He's set a standard for himself that needs to be upheld so I feel quite good about his overall contributions so far, and I expect similar in the future. At least 1 hydra... BinOnFire is my pick right now if I have to pick one, but I don't necessarily subscribe to the 1 (non)-hydra MUST 100% be scum. I'm rereading right now and grabbing dinner. Back soon. ~Hopeless Oh yeah, the hydra part of this. | ||
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I guess I was afraid of this. I don't have any good reads on anyone, "so that means we're scum". It's BS of course. The game is only 1 day long, there isn't much to go on yet. It's not my style to accuse people based on trivialities. /zebezt | ||
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I have no previous knowledge of hopeless' gameplay so I can't comment on that. He posted some reads in QT, that he might elaborate on himself when he is ready. /zebezt | ||
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On January 31 2013 17:09 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Actually, this game is 3 days long, dear. The "there isn't much to go on yet" part is false, at least to form opinions (if not black and white "he's scum/town" reads). Also in a normal game you'd be crucified for saying that (considering you would have voted for a lynch by now). Also hey, I don't have "good reads" on people either, yet I'm not being called out as scum, which reduces the possibilities for scum in many people's eyes, thus making the game easier for town. That's something isn't it? You guys should try it some time. /G I'm not your dear, buddy ![]() If I would have had to vote, my vote would have gone to crossfire for posting absolutely nothing, yet finding time to cast spells. Suck is starting to look suspicious to me, but that is mainly based on what I read skimming through the thread this morning. Good post from Nova I think. I haven't read Suck's filter myself yet, so I'm not going to deep into it. Just checked all of CH's discards, pretty cool looking deck. I noticed a nevinerals (?) disk being discarded. That seems slightly townie to me. If I was scum I would hang on to that bad boy. Blasting away everything is pretty good for scum since their mob survives. /zebezt | ||
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![]() My last post before the one where I said I had only had 1 day was before the mainphase was over. /zebezt | ||
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regarding xfire, I find this post particulary interesting On January 31 2013 08:19 Crossfire99 wrote:This makes no sense seriously. I'm just...lask;dfjkl;sdjlakj.f...aaaaaarrrrrrgggggggggggggg...why are you attacking me for playing according to my reads...ajdsfljdfiopjdoajfp It seems like tryhard appearing angry to me. Might be my confirmation bias though. His case on CH is crap. Not the kind of crap caused by not having time, but by grasping at straws if you ask me. After all his apologies there still aren't any good contributions. /zebezt | ||
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On January 31 2013 10:15 Stutters695 wrote: ... Then to defend not looking at hydras when mathematically it is way more likely for a hydra is svummy as duck to me. I never said we shouldn't look at hydra's. I just think it is weird to work from the assumption there must be a hydra. (I was an idiot and thought DFTP was not a hydra though and that this made him look scummy) I still stand by that. Anyone is as likely to be scum as anyone else, so logically it makes no sense to ask a question like "who do you think is the scum hydra". Better to just ask who is scum. | ||
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On January 31 2013 23:09 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: I'm interested zeb, can you make a case on our friend Xfire? I'd like to see your points laid out in one place so I can see what you are thinking. p I can after dinner (approx 4 hours from now) | ||
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On January 31 2013 23:47 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Just as our discarding of Larry's Disk says NOTHING about our alignment and anybody trying to read shit into it is wrong (not that I am worried about you thinking I'm town because of it, it's just fucking stupid to use THAT of all things to think so). /Acro I'm so sorry ![]() I still think its slightly townie.. although you could have 2 more in your hand of course :D I agree though that the shaman is not indicative until it is used. Gotta play with the cards you are dealt. The timing of it all is still suspicious though. /zebezt | ||
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On January 31 2013 12:29 Hopeless1der wrote: iGrok! Are you genuinely upset that I'm lurky? Like...if someone had to pick 1 word to describe me, that's probably the one. Nah, I'm right there with you. So...I've reread and haven't come up with much that I can report on right now, nothing strikes me as scummy enough to pursue at this point. I'm headed to bed. See you all tomorrow. ~Hopeless On February 01 2013 02:56 Hopeless1der wrote: wait what? which filter have I been looking at, stutters hasn't done shit to me I swear, I'm getting the hang of this hydra thing. | ||
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On February 01 2013 03:02 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Here you say they further your goals, which is presumably to play ninjas. However, the first thing you actually DO with them is: AKA keep them as a blocker. Why the inconsistency in play? I'm starting to agree with SnB here. If a creature can attack, it should be. /Acro I have no mana with which to ninjutsu anything into play. Attacking with two 0/3 creatures for shits and giggles isn't my style unfortunately ~Hopeless | ||
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On November 08 2012 03:37 Crossfire99 wrote: Moist (but he's not really a superhero, more like a member of the Henchmen Union) I'm not going to answer your question about when I asked iGrok because I don't know if that's allowed. I pm'd him and will see what he says. Just a note, but if we lynched a scum day 2 and there were only 2 scum left night 2, scum would have only had 1 shot because mafia kp is # of mafia/2 rounded up. So 2/2 = 1 which still rounds up to 1. Lol I might have misunderstood how MtG actions resolve because I don't play MtG and iGrok told me they resolve like MtG. I believe my point still stands, though, because he listed my actions in the middle of his list and not at the beginning or the end. World's worst movie star? A breadcrumb for the ages Anyways, I think his rage is completely over the top, but his reads match up with his actions around putting mana into minds aglow, as well as his indignant response to gonzaw when called out for it. He doesn't have to stop and think about why he's upset, he knows immediately that he didnt want to give CH zombies. I dislike that he didn't talk about anything, but then again, why would scum intentionally shroud their actions? I don't think they would. I don't want to attack crossfire, he doesn't make sense as scum to me. Here's another example: On January 30 2013 14:47 Crossfire99 wrote: I'm going to quote what I send in Parallel World Mafia because the same thing applies here. I had a double-take upon reading this post. I say I have a townread on cross, and he posts something that basically says my reasoning is irrelevant. I don't see why scum would bother telling me to question myself when I had a townread. | ||
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I'm around again. I must say this is a pretty active group. I'm gonna be making a case on xfire now... although most things have kinda been said on that, but maybe I'll find something new. I'll get back with that in a sec. Then hopefully I also have time to read up on all the stuff going on with SuckMyTopdeck /zebezt | ||
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On February 01 2013 04:30 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Your earlier post: You only accept people not attacking if they are legitimately doing other things. You are not. Why you contradict yourself? That was in the context that attacking might actually have an impact. 0/3 creatures don't have an impact in my opinion. Me attacking is like laying an FoS, and then refusing to vote at the deadline. Are you trying to get me to leave myself open so you can throw all your zombies at me? Does no one else find Nova's case on Suck to be completely lacking on all fronts? He's had time and opportunity to come back and dissect maybe 1 more page of filter, but basically...hasn't. CH, you want me to send an empty thread at Nova to back up my statements? | ||
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On February 01 2013 04:45 Clockwork Hydra wrote: K, Rock's filter is nice and short and full of fluff. Of the two, my earlier town read on H1 has gone to a slight scum read. However, my earlier null read on Zebezt is moving towards the town spectrum. I want to know how they are so incredibly schizophrenic, though. It's a great strategy as scum: Xfire is town! No! Xfire is scum! So what's your stance on Xfire? In fact, I am missing general scum reads, the whole filter is confusing in that sense. Lot of waffle, some town reads, but no pressure and no consolidated reads. If you had a 10/10 trample thingy, who would you attack? And why? Go. /Acro Nova for failing to substantiate why Suck is scum and the lack of follow up. | ||
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here goes my case on Crossfire99 underlines in quotes are for emphasis by me. first post off the bat = On January 29 2013 13:55 Crossfire99 wrote: Hi guys. Just so you know I'm a magic noob. I was supposed to hydra with Risen, but he dropped out and took all the magic knowledge with him lol. I'll try to do my best, but I'll probably still be dumb, therefore, feel free to correct me when I make mistakes because I know I will. As for this whole Mind Glow issue. I only think a few mana total should be used on it because I don't think it is wise to discard so many cards because that's wasteful. I also don't think I would contribute mana to it because it seems like a big goal of using it is so Bin can get that Voyage card, which if I understand correctly won't help me at all. Risen seems to have had a fondness for non basic lands (all of my basic lands are already in play lol). Oh, also can anyone that played in the first MTG Mafia summarize any hugely important things from it? Basically, I'm trying to think what is better, everyone attacking 1 person or everyone slowly whittling down everyone else, so they'll be easier to kill later. Typing that out makes me think that attacking 1 person is best because it will be as close to a normal lynch as possible, but I'm not sure with all this magic stuff, so I'm asking. Making excuses for yourself is usually considered scummy, but this one isn't too bad in my book. The excuse is limited to mtg, and that seems a fair warning in this case. Saying discarding cards is wasteful is nonsense of course. We're not talking about the environment here. It might burn people through their decks faster, but that is a different thing. All in all, he is casting doubt on what is pretty good for town. Then about the lands.. only thinking about what is good for himself. Not what is good for town. Some will say "herpderp, but you cast 0/3 creatures that don't help anyone" that is completely different cause they will turn into awesome scumhunting ninjas! Also they did not prevent us from contributing to the Mind Glow. After this post he goes on to defend the rights of players to defend themselves. A big percentage of his posts are devoted to this and the ensuing confusion. Might be noobiness, but still looks a lil scummy. He then turns an accusing finger to CH. On January 30 2013 14:43 Crossfire99 wrote: Now onto some scum hunting. Let's take a look at Clockwork shall we. Look at the contradiction at how he responds to virtually the same question: + Show Spoiler + On January 30 2013 00:30 Clockwork Hydra wrote: -snipped- But the worst part is the last bit: 1. Can some over-eager townie please do all the hard work for me, by giving me a cliffnotes version of a long and complicated game? PS. All the time you spend summarizing that game for my lazy ass, you're not scumhunting, so doublescore one for me! 2. More MTG discussion, but this time with extra wishy wash! For the record: we focus down people. Why make it easier for the mafia creature to kill people? That is one of the mistakes made in the first game, which you would know if you had read it... like everybody has been telling you to. The entire post is completely useless. It contributes nothing, yet tries to sound as if he is actually contributing, with a "novel" point on the use of Minds Aglow and a pointless question about policy. If this post didn't put you on instant red alert, your scumdar needs fixing. On January 29 2013 08:59 Clockwork Hydra wrote: -snipped- Well, you mentioned quite a bit of it. They/you spent a LOT of time bickering about useless stuff (not just setup, but completely pointless stuff about setup) and town didn't play as a team (mainly due to everybody mistrusting each other for stupid shit). This game is fundamentally different from normal mafia games not just in that we kill with magic, but because we don't actually have a town-controlled KP. It is thus twice as important to be an active townie, because we are a town TEAM. We need to work together, because our strength is in numbers. This turn people may be able to play one creature, which is a bit of a wimp. But if next turn we can all attack one player with wimps, that will be a healthy chunk of damage. If everybody goes off attacking their own favourite target without reasoning it out properly (like happened in the first 3 turns or so of the previous game), then we have lots of players at 16 life and one dead townie due to mafia creature. That is pointless, and last game was in fact harmful, because the mafia creature could one-shot people sooner than should have been possible (although mafia derped too when they missed an attack). Yes, they're more elaborate forms of our own policies, with some stuff we forgot about. /Acro Also, look at this post where they advise caution when powering up a single person + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2013 09:07 Clockwork Hydra wrote: rhetorical questions, already? huh. As for your points, they're fairly straightforward. The thing about #4 (also kinda applies to #5): Sure it's a townies job to establish his townieness - but if everybody did that properly, we wouldn't need any policies in the first place, now. I shall be reluctant to participate in plans when they result in a favorable position of somebody whose alignment I have no clue about. And I advise everybody to use the same caution in regards to this. On the other hand, I won't have any problems cooperating with people whose townieness I am sure of. (or at least if acro is, that's fine too) ~dandel On January 29 2013 11:00 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Okay so here's the thing: We are running Zombie Infestation. (this badboy right here:+ Show Spoiler + For that reason, we would have prefered Minds aglow next turn (and given all 3 mana, too!), but it seems like like it would be more beneficial to town in general this turn, than delaying until next turn ![]() So if it's going to be today, we would REALLY like to cast zombie infestation this turn (instead of contributing mana). And of course still ask everyone else to use as much mana as humanly possible! Not just the lurkers/scum! Everyone! Think of it as a group project! I promise we're not crazy (or scum) ~dandel (with acro's consent) Lastly, I already showed before how their attack on me was bad and all of this definitely has me thinking Clockwork is the first scum. His first point is basically that he feels unfairly treated because CH bashed him for asking about the previous game, while answering somebody elses question about it. Ok.. it was a little unfair. But in no way proof that he is scum. His second point is that CH says he is "reluctant to participate in plans when they result in a favorable position of somebody whose alignment I have no clue about" but then is liking the mind glow a lot while it helps him most of all. This is of course in no way contradicting as CH explained later on. He knows his own alignment after all. A lot of time passes and no posts appear, people point fingers... Then just before the deadline 2 creatures are cast. Was he just lurking this whole time? He claims to be busy, is anyone too busy to even drop a quick line? To say when they will be back? Then we get this: On January 31 2013 08:19 Crossfire99 wrote: Seriously, you want me to use mana for Join Forces, when I think Clockwork is the most scummy as of right now. Oh hey what's this post by you to suck: This makes no sense seriously. I'm just...lask;dfjkl;sdjlakj.f...aaaaaarrrrrrgggggggggggggg...why are you attacking me for playing according to my reads...ajdsfljdfiopjdoajfp On January 31 2013 08:25 Crossfire99 wrote: I have a freaking life and it is pretty busy right now. I played at night when the started 2 days when i had time. I played at night last night when i had time. Now i am playing just when i got home. I really really really really really lrajljafl;dsfjal; klaldsfj want to attack you right now just cause of the crap you just said, but I know that is just me not thinking clearly because of what you said, so I'm not going to decide rihgt now. ughguigho CROSSFIRE SMASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The underlined lines to me, seem like TRYING to sound angry. Is he the only person on the internet that does not know how to swear? I skimmed through some of his previous games. Nowhere does he ever type like this. In fact I notice most of the time he is getting along very well with everyone and laughing a lot. Not quite like this game. Suspicious After this he apologizes for being angry: On January 31 2013 08:39 Crossfire99 wrote: Your right Gonzaw. Sorry, for getting so angry. There's a lot of crap going on irl causing me to be stressed and i'm getting way too pissed off at people saying where's crossfire. crossfire isn't here. crossfire needs to post more becaues I know i am literally using every free moment to play this game. I hope we can have a clean start from here and i will try not to let me emotions get the best of me. Feel free to call me out again if I get too angry again. I don't want to play like that. This is nice n fuzzy n all, but actually looks weird to me. Who moodswings like that? is he having PMS? This is the kind of apologetic that seems scummy to me. After this people attack him for casting a creature that has an anti-town ability. While this is not completely fair, since he hasn't used the ability, he could have not cast the creature and instead have contributed to an extra card for everyone. After all of this though, zero contribution to scumhunting except a TERRIBLE case aimed at CH. All of this combined makes Crossfire by far the scummiest player at the moment. /zebezt | ||
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On February 01 2013 04:54 Stutters695 wrote: So you think that the two most likely scum are both single players (8% chance if random, unlikely if not random)? you would also attack him over XF who you just said you were going to make a case on? zebezt is the one who wanted to make the case on XF not me (oh hey, there it is), and those are my reads on who I'd Attack. I'd love to attack scum, but I'm not 100% sure who they are. I know who I don't want to attack and why I don't want to. That leaves me with limited options on who I DO want to attack. Consider this the equivalent of policy lynching in lieu of a scumread. ~Hopeless | ||
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I promised to make this case some time ago, so I followed up on it. I tried doing the google docs thing, but it was hell to edit. Gave up on that. /zebezt | ||
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no you have it all wrong, it is /zebezt | ||
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On February 01 2013 03:28 RockHydra wrote: From Xfires WLIIA filter:+ Show Spoiler + On November 08 2012 03:37 Crossfire99 wrote: Moist (but he's not really a superhero, more like a member of the Henchmen Union) I'm not going to answer your question about when I asked iGrok because I don't know if that's allowed. I pm'd him and will see what he says. Just a note, but if we lynched a scum day 2 and there were only 2 scum left night 2, scum would have only had 1 shot because mafia kp is # of mafia/2 rounded up. So 2/2 = 1 which still rounds up to 1. Lol I might have misunderstood how MtG actions resolve because I don't play MtG and iGrok told me they resolve like MtG. I believe my point still stands, though, because he listed my actions in the middle of his list and not at the beginning or the end. World's worst movie star? A breadcrumb for the ages Anyways, I think his rage is completely over the top, but his reads match up with his actions around putting mana into minds aglow, as well as his indignant response to gonzaw when called out for it. He doesn't have to stop and think about why he's upset, he knows immediately that he didnt want to give CH zombies. I dislike that he didn't talk about anything, but then again, why would scum intentionally shroud their actions? I don't think they would. I don't want to attack crossfire, he doesn't make sense as scum to me. Here's another example: I had a double-take upon reading this post. I say I have a townread on cross, and he posts something that basically says my reasoning is irrelevant. I don't see why scum would bother telling me to question myself when I had a townread. It might make sense to say your townread is irrelevant if he is scum. He will know it won't make you more suspicious of him right away. Also the game is gonna continue, and he might not like the comparison with that previous game as this game goes on. He even says he was so busy with real life in that game... yeah thats toooooootally different from this one where is soooooo active. /zebezt | ||
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On February 01 2013 05:50 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Derp lol I forgot about Nova lol Put it Xfire/Nova/Rock, followed by CH/Bin/Stutters. I am not really fond of Nova's attack of you (even if strong's case wasn't that good either). He hasn't been around for a while, which he was last game. I.e he was around on D1 with his "laid back" one liners, but in MTG 1 he kept the same behaviour all game long. Now he suddenly stopped doing anything this D2..? He could be scum. Hmm....it's a toss between him and Xfire to be honest. I don't really see Rock as scum, zbest saying he doesn't have any read is not something scum do. /G Did anyone actually look into how much effort went into Nova's case against SMTD? | ||
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On February 01 2013 05:52 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Rock, how about instead of talking about Nova you talk about Aperture? /G I'm waiting on this to be honest: On January 31 2013 23:55 Aperture Science wrote: I already said I'm going to do Xfire and Nova. But it will have to wait until I get home from work. Also, unrelated, GreY is almost back from Italy ![]() ~Hopeless | ||
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Will be interesting to see where the scumbeast is headed. That will be the first bit of hard data we get. /zebezt | ||
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On February 01 2013 06:20 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Also, maybe we should figure out how much damage town can deal tomorrow CH can deal 11 I can deal 9 That's 20 damage, we would need 19 more damage to, for instance, kill both Xfire and Aperture? Is this possible? Also, if CH's zombies attacks go through today (which I thought it couldn't), then we need less town KP /G We'll see what I draw, but I expect to deal 2 damage tomorrow. ~Hopeless | ||
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On February 01 2013 06:25 Nova_Terra wrote: Im here till main phase, if anyone needs me to answer something, shoot On February 01 2013 06:26 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Nova, I think posting your thoughts on the 2 giant cases that were posted is a good start /G ?? Nova? | ||
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On February 01 2013 07:10 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Yeah Nova Like, everybody's job right now is stating if they agree with the cases or not, because tomorrow we are 100% attacking those 2 guys and hopefully killing one of them. Stutters and Nova haven't posted their thoughts on them yet.....Rock hasn't either for some reason (I don't know why Apperture posting his "analysis" will make my case invalid or something) /G It won't make it invalid, but perhaps less convincing? Also...I hadn't seen your case when I made that "I'm waiting post" because the subscribed function is less than ideal on a hydra account. I still stand by I want to see what iGrok pieces together in the meantime. ~Hopeless | ||
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On February 01 2013 07:57 Stutters695 wrote: Not quite (unless this is changed and I don't remember it from the rules for the mafia gain. 2/2 attacks 0/3 0/3 turns to 0/1 until turn end and the zombie stays at 2/2 Except he's not attacking me | ||
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also ~Hopeless | ||
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~Hopeless | ||
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Kill it. With Fire. | ||
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On February 01 2013 08:24 Crossfire99 wrote: ##Cast Badlands ##Tap Deathrite Shaman (exile Volrath's Stronghold from Clockwork's graveyard): Put Soul Warden into play ##Tap Mountain, Badlands, Badlands: Cast Syphon Soul If that's not a scumclaim I don't know what is ~Hopeless | ||
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On February 01 2013 08:31 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Rock, can you use the walker you just played (the one that can't attack) to get rid of xfire's soul warden? No need to give him more HP than necessary. ~dandel It's tapped, and I intend for him to die before he gets an untap phase. By my math, we need 28 damage to kill cross right now (12+16). I've got 2, CH has 11, DFTP has 10 = 23. We need 5 more. (I'll sac a walker to clear his goblin during the attack so CH has a clear path) | ||
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~Hopeless | ||
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On February 01 2013 08:41 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Anyways, no matter what happens we are still in a better position than town was in the previous game lol Rock, will you use your other "useless permanents" for something? We can use it to destroy that Goblin card of his so he can't block with it /G Yeah, I'm probably going to do that, but no need to rush that decision yet. I think the math is funky regarding his life total, so I'd like that confirmed before I do much more on the board. ~Hopeless | ||
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20 (Start) 19 (-1 HP to Wooded Foothills) 11 (-8 HP to the Zombie Assault (4x2)) 27 (+16HP from Syphon Soul) Artanis, can you review and confirm Crossfire's life total? | ||
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On February 01 2013 08:49 Clockwork Hydra wrote: You can't. You can either tap him for damage, or tap him to attack. ![]() Also, Rock, can you please get rid of that Soul Warden before his scumbuddy plays creatures? I tried, waiting on stack resolution. | ||
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~Hopeless p.s. still waiting on the abyss ![]() | ||
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On February 01 2013 08:56 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: I propose this: Aperture: Destroy your Braid of Fire with The Abyss and destroy Xfire's Goblin If you do not, then you'll claim scum along Xfire Does this seem like a good idea to enforce? If he has a different method to mess with crossfire (well before the main phase ends) I'd be open to that as an option as well. E.g. Burn to the face. ~Hopeless | ||
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~Hopeless | ||
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On February 01 2013 09:50 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: where does Rock's two come from? His shuriken isn't equipped to the best of my knowledge. False? ninjutsu'd ninja of deep hours. Also shuriken can only damage creatures. | ||
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~Hopeless | ||
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Wow.. xfire gave up so easily If I was scum I would at least have saved that card till the end of mainphase. Although he might be sacrificing himself this way. If we waste this day just focussing on xfire it might be good for his scumbuddy. Also.. it's like that deck was made knowing he'd roll scum. /zebezt disclaimer: havent read all the new posts yet | ||
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On February 01 2013 09:28 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Anyways, we can go hunting for the remaining scum Who here thinks Aperture isn't the remaining scum? Also, who thinks that CH/me/Rock/Bin could possibly be scum in any way possible (regarding what's happening with Xfire and previous interactions)? Please raise your hand. /G If CH is scum, it's a very convincing bus he is doing right now. If you are scum, I think we are doomed. I'm not willing to dismiss the possibility yet though. Could be that you n xfire saw that he was basically lost and decided he would give up and you could get some town cred for killing him. After playing the card he did I don't think anyone can get much town cred for attacking him anymore though. Bin seems unlikely to be scum, unless the scum monster suddenly switches targets while Bin can be finished off. I know we are town, I get some towncred for attacking xfire, but my other head gets scum points for defending him :D /zebezt | ||
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On February 01 2013 11:37 BinOnFire wrote: There is probably a better thing to do than tunneling me with the limited time you have. Oats' shit just feels bad, and MG isn't playing like I know he can in a mason circle (which is what a Hydra is). This is really weird, wont Scum Oats+MG make sure I dont do idiotic things? Like the thing you just called me scum for is what scum WOULDNT do. L2Quote | ||
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On February 01 2013 16:06 Nova_Terra wrote: So i could tap my treetop village to make it a 3/3 ape, but then its tapped. Wonderful. Don't you have a land to play? /zebezt | ||
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Tapped land though. | ||
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On February 01 2013 22:13 Aperture Science wrote: You would indeed, but in order to use it I need someone else to cast a instant or sorcery that does damage. -GreY Could you provide more detail? gonzaw/prom are going to 3x Chain Lightning on Crossfire. What can you do with that? | ||
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~Hopeless | ||
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On February 01 2013 22:20 Clockwork Hydra wrote: You could have had us in your deck. just sayin ~dandel So you want to be working for the real hydra, i hear you. ~Hopeless | ||
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~Hopeless | ||
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/zebezt | ||
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zeb makes a good point about the werebear. Stutters, what happened there? ~Hopeless | ||
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On February 02 2013 00:12 zebezt wrote: If we can't kill xfire this turn, maybe we can use SuckMyTopdeck's Words of War... if it's allowed to activate that "during upkeep". Then at least xfire would die during drawphase, before any sorcery can be cast. Not sure if this games setup allows abilities during upkeep though failure ![]() /zebezt | ||
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On February 02 2013 00:54 Stutters695 wrote: I have a instant that's +1/+1 trample infect for all creatures I control, nothing that just blanket affects the board though. I'm assuming Triumph of the Hordes, in which case you don't have 4 mana anyways. I really do not understand your deck at all. ~Hopeless | ||
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/zebezt | ||
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On February 02 2013 04:52 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: wait the plan wont work he can sac a land to kill nova's creature He can't if you mean the treetop village, because its still a land, so the errata prevents that. However, he can still mess with the other creatures on the board. | ||
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~Hopeless | ||
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On February 02 2013 04:57 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Rock, what's your opinion of AS? He didn't put up a fight on reverberate, but won't sac his braid of fire. On his defense, I guess he addressed gonzaw's case, but not in any great detail. Most of the defense I see is that work was too busy and also that he always trolls day1. The trolling isn't scummy, but I feel that promising reads for "after work" and then not following through looks bad. I can't say whether being forced to RNG his discards was intentional, or if its even true. Are we allowed to know if a discard was at random? ~Hopeless | ||
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~Hopeless | ||
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~Hopeless | ||
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![]() /me slaps suck with a large trout whyyyyyyy would you give him those ideas and also why not play words of war | ||
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On February 02 2013 06:59 zebezt wrote: we could have killed him in the next drawphase though.. no more lifesucking sorceries but oh well also: maybe the ninja's don't seem so awesome to some.. but that's cause they lurk in the shadows n such... we might have a couple on the board that just have detected all notice. Also they don't listen to our commands :/ /zebezt | ||
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He might just have been too busy to contribute much. some other people are also looking reasonably suspicious to me. /zebezt | ||
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have a good one all. /zebezt | ||
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Seems it wasn't a very busy night. I agree on the analysis by aperture. This way is fairly subjective and it doesn't really show the bigger picture. Personally posts that are in the range -2 to 2 I dont wanna hear about. I was surprise though, that Well crossfire is my number one read but he's been discussed to death. I'll have a post explaining my next best read when I get a few minutes of downtime at work. In the meantime I'll contribute to discussions however I can. I will say I feel a bit better about AS now that he's a bit more into it. Right now I don't think Nova is scum so if X turns out to be town I'd bet on a double hydra team. scored 4 / 3 scum points. If he wouldnt say "he's been discussed to death" you'd just accuse him of sheeping and give him even more points What you should bash him for is saying he'll write about his next best read, but as far as I can see he never does. He writes a little about RH, but this is because he is asked specifically about RH by DFTP. What he writes doesn't really indicate that RH is his second biggest scumread. When Aperture says he will write but he doesn't people freak out. But Stutters gets a free pass? Aperture actually tried with the PBPA, but stutters showed nothing. /zebezt | ||
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On February 02 2013 23:39 Clockwork Hydra wrote: I am totally okay with you doing something too. Who is Xfire's partner in crime and why? /Acro Well by elimination really, I have CH, SMTP, DFTP and duh, myself as town, so that leaves Stutters, Nova and AS. Of those three, I'm most inclined to see stutters as scum. As zeb pointed out, and both GreY and iGrok pointed out in his analysis, the flip-flop on my "entrance post" regarding the 0/X creatures is the epitome of a Lynch-all-liars policy and has obvious scum connotations (forgot what lies he told) with no clear town motivation behind the how or why that read changed. In addition, saying he'll put together reads and then not doing so, (which marv says is right up his meta-alley,) is still freaking scummy. As far as associative cases, the "xfire has been discussed to death" is a good way to sheep without saying a goddamned thing. AS is difficult to read as noted due to his scumhunting methods being "mechanical". While I think stutters is scummier, I am generally fearful of the power of AS's deck, so I'm comfortable sheeping an attack on him if people still feel he's the top candidate. Gonzaw's case is still quite good, but the assumption that random discards fucked up his play and that work is hectic kind of makes me want to stay my hand. I guess that leaves me null of Nova? He hasn't given a whole lot to the thread (though he has a pretty good excuse for that), and I'd expect scum to be kind of forced to bus xfire. However, in his response to the case on AS: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17688758 he basically ends off with "kill xfire", AS needs more discussion. At the time I don't think xfires fate was sealed by any means, as scum he could have had the opportunity to sheep gonzaw's case, so I consider this to lean him towards a townread. ~Hopeless | ||
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Oh I forgot Bin in there. Also town, I'm running on the assumption that mafia actually want him dead. ~Hopeless | ||
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Don't pat yourself on the back too much Gonzaw.. I mentioned the possibility of a bus ages ago ![]() I have spend the day thinking about it too (well not the entire day, but way too much of it). I'm going to be doing some analyzing now.. gonna be thinking about the following things: Why did Xfire out himself so early? Who defended Xfire? Who attacked him? Why does Xfire play so badly, does he not get scum advice? Why was Bin picked as scum target? Who did Xfire defend/attack? /zebezt | ||
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![]() /z | ||
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Ok.. going with the questions I asked myself:
Ok.. based on this analysis I have my list of scum suspects in order of most to least suspicious
/zebezt | ||
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On February 03 2013 06:26 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Crossfire prolly outed himself because we made a bulletproof case on him and he's BY FAR not good enough a (scum) player to wiggle out of it. Any assumption further than that is crazy tinfoil-hat talk. ~dandel Well if it was bulletproof, why did Suck and DFTP disagree? I agree though that any deductions based on this action are not very strong. /zebezt | ||
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damn baboons! | ||
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Stutters is still on top Since you guys convinced me I shoulnt read too much into the early surrender by xfire, I will check Suck more closely as well. Not right now though, it's late and I had some beer already. /zebezt | ||
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![]() /zebezt | ||
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On February 03 2013 06:32 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: I'm sure you see what I see. I see it too posted in QT for later proof ![]() /zebezt | ||
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Check out which people did not use New Frontier CH (has no basic lands) Stutters and xfire wouldnt any decent scumbuddy have warned xfire to search for 2 lands to sac to destroy 2 more permanents? stutters was the only one besides xfire that didnt notice the new frontier. I dont think this coincedence | ||
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damn I need sleep | ||
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I'll be back tomorrow /zebezt | ||
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~Hopeless | ||
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On February 03 2013 19:39 zebezt wrote: Good morning all. I don't have much time now, but I have a question, can the onslaught fetchlands be used to fetch a dual land? /zebezt nevermind. Googled it myself. I suppose it's possible xfire does run without basic lands then. Although I don't understand why he'd keep badlands instead of searching for a dual. But he obviously isnt very mtg savvy. Not sure how much posting I will do today. Will see. /zebezt | ||
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Pretty damning. If you combine that with his decklist he seems too dangerous to not lynch next. Still wanna read over his filter again though, but I suppose we have time for that. /zebezt | ||
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something to think over. /zebezt | ||
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He must have something in mind for all those lands in his hand though, or he would not have discarded Epic Experiment and Minds Desire. So I think his mana might be ramping up fast. (fastbond?) | ||
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just when I thought second scum was confirmed. oh well.. at least it keeps the game interesting a lil longer :D Guess I gotta go back to filterfeeding + Show Spoiler + ![]() /zebezt | ||
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If xfire turns out to not be scum I think he would be violation of the rule where you have to play to win. I don't think he is that kinda guy. Keeping an open mind is good. But this, to me, looks like you are pretending to keep an open mind, Nova. /zebezt | ||
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some emphasis on the word pretending | ||
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Not much content in there. Because of that also not much suspicious in there. The thing that sticks out most is the "trying to stay a null read on CH". the explanation for that was quite weird. and now there is the keeping options open on xfire. now I guess I should finally read sucks filter. Been putting that off. /zebezt | ||
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On February 04 2013 05:22 Nova_Terra wrote: well im not actively playing against my wincon, and im still town. Trying to deal with RL issues and all, probably my last TL mafia game cause shit hit the fan. so is life, apparently. Would this be scummy due to guilty conscience or townie due to blatant failure to verify accusation target (i.e. Not reading the thread)? ~Hopeless | ||
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Lol, I should develop a meta for myself like that in case I ever roll scum. The whole argument that marv is never suspected of being scum on day 1 is terrible, but not sure if that points to scumminess. Gets into an argument with Oats, but doesn't really think he is scum in the end. Bit weird, but not rly scummy. bleh, too much to post everything Overall I get the impression that they are contributing. marv's style is a bit confrontational, but that is probably "totes" their style. All in all they move down a spot on my suspicion list. /zebezt | ||
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/zebezt | ||
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~Hopeless | ||
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On February 04 2013 16:07 zebezt wrote: Good morning all Havent read much yet, just wanted to point out that this makes sense to me. You and stutters cant both be scum, coz xfire already is. So there is no reason not to trust your word on Stutters. I dont have the time to read all of stutters old games to figure out his meta /zebezt another fail oh and for all of the people who think we are scum: + Show Spoiler + I think we can do 7 damage assuming no blocks.. unless maybe we do some trick with the shuriken. Havent really looked into how to use that efficiently, but my other head probably has thoughts on that. I'm gonna be busy as fuck today, so I won't be able to analyze much until tonight. Going to be reading Apertures filter again since people seem to think he is so scummy. I still think Nova is scum, unless he is just really bad. /zebezt | ||
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/zebezt | ||
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My suspicion of Aperture is less because I feel they would have told xfire to sac his stuff to defend himself. btw, I think if we can lynch 2 people today that'd be good. But they would have to be good targets. On the other hand I think letting everyone attack who they want might give us more information. If we kill two people and we are wrong about em.. that would put us in a pretty bad spot though. Because if everyone acts as one.. it doesnt actually give us any new information. /undecided /zebezt | ||
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On February 04 2013 17:52 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Do you think that is worth the trade off that comes from drawing attention to himself and diverging drastically from his past meta? Why or why not? What would you do if you rolled scum? p Tough question. I think with Aperture getting a lot of attention it doesn't hurt for Nova to lie low and play the no-time-card. You are right though if I was scum I'd probably try to stay as close to my previous games as possible. /zebezt | ||
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I don't have enough time to go into the double lynch question now. gotta work now /zebezt | ||
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as town you want to analyse scum behavior. If you can be sure someone is scum, this helps in the analyzing of the other scum. If you hold this option open too long you limit yourself. Anyone that seriously want to analyse scum would assume xfire is scum by now. Only scum of course can really be sure who is scum. Scum knows this and might try to not appear too convinced of somebodys role. /zebezt | ||
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On February 04 2013 19:17 Nova_Terra wrote: Ok Thing is i do assume that hes scum, i just aknowledge the slight chance that he isnt (which is still growing smaller) What you say here does not match with what you wrote here: On February 03 2013 18:45 Nova_Terra wrote: .. If Crossfire indeed flips scum, we need to take a look at these interactions: .. If you assume he is scum, you don't need to wait for a flip. is that burning smell coming from your pants? /zebezt PS: DFTP stop nagging! after work I said | ||
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But now that you brag about it yourself that towncred is gone again. Because it might just be that you told him to kill the enchantment to give you some extra town points. /zebezt | ||
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On February 04 2013 21:59 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Yup. I also regularly claim vig as scum and shoot my scumbuddy in the face. Oh wait. Nobody does that because it doesn't work. The only reason I felt it needed to be brought to your attention is because idiots keep bringing it up as if they might be seriously entertaining the idea. Like... if you want to call me scum, go through my filter and make a case. Otherwise, go bugger a goat. /Acro Are you guys always this defensive? /zebezt | ||
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Yes to "double-lynch". My choices would be AS and 1 of stutters/nova today. 1 ninja in play, 1 walker that can attack. and I'll probably ninjutsu ink-eyes this turn (assuming no blockers). This would give 7 damage from me this turn. I've got 2 more walkers to play this turn, and a land. I've also got ninja alternatives in the event that getting ink-eyes out wouldn't kill someone (meaning 4 total damage instead of 7). The alternative would most likely a skullsnatcher ninjutsu'd and a phantom warrior this turn. ~Hopeless | ||
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On February 04 2013 23:53 Clockwork Hydra wrote: General mtg advice: @Rock: you can attack anybody you like with your Phyrexian thingy, so attack us: we won't block it. Then ninja in your giant beasty to do 5 damage to the target you actually want to kill. Unfortunately this is not how ninjitsu works. It has to attack the same target as the original creature. /zebezt | ||
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There might be interest in killing aperture, but I'm not sure about your other target. /zebezt | ||
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getting really paranoid though.. is CH trying to get rid of the people with the strongest decks? I have no idea how strong everybodies decks are. But AS and suck seem to certainly have the weirdest decks.. probably setting up for monster combo's. Happened to me last game too, and then it all turned out alright though ![]() anywayz.. crunch time for me now. bbasaic Maybe AS is scummish, but definately not convinced on suck. /zebezt | ||
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beer time! My thoughts on lynching today. I'm okay with lynching 2 people, as long as Nova is one of em. I was getting a little paranoid about CH, but I have decided it's probably too much of a longshot that he is actually scum. Will try to spend my energy on other things for now. Going to read through CH's case on suck, and see what I can find out about Aperture. /zebezt | ||
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I'm just not convinced on the targets yet. /zebezt | ||
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On February 04 2013 21:19 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Second, I agree that Aperture needs to die. ... Why not advising Xfire doesn't make him town: if I were scum I would advise Xfire to blow shit up at the end of the attack phase (before damage resolution of course). This has 2 advantages: the first is that town might spend extra resources in killing you and the second is that you know exactly how much damage you need to prevent. The disadvantage is that town might blow up your creatures before you can blow shit up, meaning you might need to sac more lands. /Acro hmmm I disagree with this. You might be right about that it would actually be better to wait, but then why DIDN'T he wait? /zebezt | ||
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Gotta admit. CHs case has some merit to it. Can't say I agree with some points, but others are pretty good. Marv's defense isn't all that great either. Marv's defense seemed bad from earlier attacks already (burglars what?) Does this just mean marv is not good at making sense? Or not making sense under pressure... I suppose I should check some of marv's earlier games tomorrow to get an idea. Good thing there is so much time left till attacks have to be announced ![]() /zebezt | ||
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On February 05 2013 06:29 Aperture Science wrote: His point is that GreY and I are good at MtG, therefore we would have told Xfire to wait. At least I think thats it I think you think wrong. Anywayz.. I'm off to bed. Was a pretty exhausting day, and tomorrow is promising not to be much better. tomorrows todo list: read up on Apertures posts, read earlier games of marv /zebezt | ||
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On February 05 2013 07:11 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Hopeless has been kind of absent lately as well (I think). I'd like his thoughts on this whole thing What exactly? Not killing AS now? Because that actually sounds completely reasonable, I prefer to WIFOM that dilemma into AS being town. That means I should want stutters and Nova based on my previous reads. I'm reconsidering stutters. He wants me to update my read on him and doesn't want to let me off the hook for what I've said. That feels townie to me. Based on the interaction between marv and acro, I'd prefer SuckMyTopDeck over AS for today's primary lynch target. I'm rereading Nova to see if I still want him as my second choice. One of the rare times my hydra-head and I manage to agree. I'm around for 10ish minutes and then headed out to dinner. I'll be catching up properly later tonight. ~Hopeless | ||
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~Hopeless | ||
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Marv not wanting to talk anymore doesn't really help their case. This game is getting way too confusing. Just too many scum candidates. Hopefully tonight I can make sense of things. Almost starting to feel like getting 4 people low on health today and then killing them all off in the next day. Then at least we know we have enough KP left over tomorrow. scum must surely be between nova/AS/CH/Suck Was thinking about CH again. On one hand, there isn't much reason for CH to go after Suck if they are scum, besides a deck that looks a little stronger. On the other hand, xfire outing himself early sure did a lot of good for CH's reputation. Xfire is still not dead yet. Normally we would have at least be a little weary of CH until flip. But now he has been able to enjoy all his town cred for several days already. A good reason to give up and out yourself is if you KNOW you will be focussed down. How would you know for sure? If your powerful scumbuddy tells you they will kill you. I guess I'm back to being paranoid. /zebezt | ||
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I need to take a chill pill. Although I still think ignoring people with useless scum accusations is more helpful. Doesn't waste so much time. If I had to deal with everybody that had some weird scumfeel about us, I wouldnt have time to scumhunt. I still think we should lynch nova instead of AS though. At least AS tries to be useful, nova is completely useless. And super suspicious with bullshit about xfire maybe not being scum. /zebezt | ||
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Then what are we talking about? We have suck and xfire xfire is already just about dead. So just kill suck and do a celabratory dance. Or wtf does marv mean with her mafia claim? All I read after her claim was "WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM" /zebezt | ||
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"his" | ||
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We should just attack the scummy people: suck/nova /zebezt | ||
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But we will block anyone attacking us with the creatures we are casting this turn. Town is not helped at all by us dying. /zebezt | ||
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We can attack with 2 creatures. Nova has 1. therefore 1 is unblocked -> 5/5+4/4 if we take 6 damage then we die to scumbeast. how are the 5/5 and 4/4 helping us then? Why should people attack us when there isn't even a case on us? /zebezt | ||
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~Hopeless | ||
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CH's original attackplan is not bad. Just instead of our ninja going to suck, we send Stutters' bear and everything that is not going to Suck goes to Nova. /zebezt | ||
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~Hopeless | ||
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On February 06 2013 03:08 Nova_Terra wrote: I'm not even going to try to defend this cause if you want to see it that way go ahead, im not gonna stop you. However I think that I can use a Marv defense here and say that my scum play is much better than what you give credit it for If this is your town play, then your scum play probably sucks as well. ![]() /zebezt | ||
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Is it worth my time reading through Suck's old games or is she kinda set to die anyway? /zebezt | ||
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I have no idea why I do this ![]() | ||
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Pretty convinced that scum is between nova n suck anyway. /zebezt | ||
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~Hopeless | ||
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setting anyone on 10 to 12 life is a big gamble, because they will be easily killed off by scum. Is scum gonna waste his KP putting somebody thats almost confirmed town to 3 life? NO. That person is going to survive another day, because nobody will attack em the next turn. If us taking damage would help in any way to further town goals, we'd probably do it. We are attacking with the creatures that can attack. How is taking damage going to prove anything? Scum would happily take some damage if it would make them less suspicious. I'll quote a lesser hydra who agrees with me on this: On January 30 2013 00:50 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Not to say that if you have a shitty chump blocker that you played for its useful side effect (mogg fanatic or so), that you can't use it to chump block if someone decides to attack you. The no-blocker policy is unenforceable anyway. In general townies should always favour attacking over blocking, but I can definitely agree with a townie defending against some giant beast with some chump, rather than doing 1 measly damage themselves (unless that 1 damage is enough to kill scum). /Acro Oh snap! That's you! /zebezt | ||
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~Hopeless | ||
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It will weaken him, but if he doesnt kill anybody off we will deaden him. And even though I'm pretty sure about Nova, you or AS could be scum too. You would have no problem taking me out. This whole plan of yours reeks of scum. We have always focussed people down, but suddenly you want to spread damage.. conveniently so that people will get in range of scummonster. There is not even a case on us. Only thing is that we don't want to die... wow that is damning! Translate this to a normal game: you vote without giving a reason ... pretty damn scummy /zebezt | ||
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If you are bored feel free to read my only other game here. I was a bit more tunnelly there, but rightly so, coz he turned out scum. End game was funny. /zebezt | ||
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On February 06 2013 07:09 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Yeah, but I'm the kind of townie that wants to figure the game out, and get the whole scumteam as soon as possible and then watch and laugh as they fall. Trying to do that here is not going as planned lol Just "killing everybody" seems kind of a "loss" to me in that sense, even if we win. Just like in OMGUS, I had a game where we were like 7v1 hunting for a SK. We misslynched like twice or something, but because of setup shit and numbers alone the SK was caught and died, and we won, but I still was angry as fuck. Yeah something like that is happening here. It's frustrating as fuck. /G (hurrah for laptop in bed) gotta agree with your attitude. I wanna figure things out. Plus since I know we're town I wanna be in the safe group. I'm not content with us not being in there while CH is. His crappy reasoning around this whole attack strategy reeks of scum. Rant:+ Show Spoiler + Also, I dont know what is up with people signing up for a game if they are not willing to put in some effort. Go play a rubics cube or something, but don't ruin the game for others with your lurking. If you lost your passion, go do something else ffs. I wanna play this game and I wanna play it with people that put in time and effort as well. Otherwise the game means nothing. If you don't have any input you are useless to this game and you ruin it for everyone. /zebezt | ||
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/zebezt now im rly off | ||
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~Hopeless | ||
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On February 06 2013 09:26 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: Hi Hopeless (not zeb, hopeless). Do you think I'm mafia, if so, why? Make it a proper answer if you do, pretty plz I have you as null and then SnB is lurking, so that doesn't help. Prom has an actual townread on you but still wants you to die. I'm in the same-ish boat. You've given warnings of: On February 05 2013 11:07 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: I'll say this only once again: if me/aperture flip town, make sure you are actually able to flip CH next. Anyway, this game isn't fun anymore so I won't be posting anymore. but you haven't substantiated with anything other than what (to me) comes down to an OMGUS. There are some recent things that I find as reasons to call CH scum, but so many more to call him town. I don't have many reasons to call you anything, so that kind of defaults to scum read in lieu of an actual read at this point. If both you and Nova were to flip town, my money goes onto CH I think. Stutters and DFTP are my top townreads. CH is only slightly behind them, and that's for the "bus of the century" argument. As I have a scumread on Nova, I want to attack him more than you, but I'm not against you flipping, if only for the sake of optimizing town KP. ~Hopeless | ||
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On February 06 2013 15:22 Nova_Terra wrote: Alright guys i now have another question: Since when is stutters as townie as Poster? I dont like it one bit ![]() 2 easy steps: 1: Don't post anything substantial 2: Ask people to read your posts and prove you are scum So for you that means you just have to follow step 2 ![]() /zebezt also good morning all | ||
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anywayz... I read something about attacking AS. I think I can get on board with that. They haven't contributed much. I will wait on my other head. Also, I'd do some reading up on AS tonight. /zebezt | ||
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As long as we kill nova next turn if we turn out to be wrong. If AS or Suck are scum, we could be too late if we wait another turn, but Nova seems relatively harmless so far. I'm sure hopeless won't mind either when he comes back. /zebezt | ||
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~Hopeless | ||
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I suppose I would not be in the best of moods in your position either Sucks.. /z | ||
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I suspect if you were scum, you would be having an excellent time CH ![]() Now lurky stutters is the only one left on town-island that I dont 100% trust ![]() But more experienced people seem confident in him, so I guess it's all good. Otherwise the zombies will have to deal with the bears. /z | ||
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~Hopeless | ||
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Anyway, I think stutters will hardly be unkillable tomorrow. Problem is that he is going to live yet another day after it, and I'm not so sure if he will be killable then. I thank you AS for your vote of confidence. Will post more when I get back from work. *general happy thoughts for everyone* (imagine that in rainbow colored letters, I have no idea how to do colors, let alone have the time to actually do it) /zebezt | ||
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~Hopeless | ||
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thanks | ||
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since I trust CH and DFTP, I'm cool with any plan that kills off us+stutters+nova tomorrow Not sure if we have enough KP for that though. Can somebody calculate that? We were planning on returning ink-eyes to our hand in exchange for a 2/1 after dmg is dealt, just so that nova cant copy it. However, if it necessary that nova has a 5/4 instead of a 2/2 for us to achieve total annihilation, then I think I can convince hopeless to keep ink-eyes out. /zebezt going back to work (see my name is green, that means I'm town) | ||
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ignore that GG | ||
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much appreciated! also much props for DFTP for recognizing AS /zebezt | ||
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