EPT[T] MTG Mini Mafia II
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BinOnFire
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I'm playing Group Hug featuring Veteran Explorer, Collective Voyage, and Minds Aglow. My current hand doesn't have any of these cards, so I'm going to mulligan until I find one or hit 4 cards. I would love to play an untapped land and resolve one of the Join Forces cards to get us all off to a quicker start, so please refrain from casting spells until I see what cards Artanis deals me. On the 0/X creatures debate, I'm running Axebane Guardians and Overgrown Battlements for the purpose of fueling group card drawing effects. My reasoning is that, as the town outnumbers scum quite heavily, accelerating everyone will be of net benefit to the town. The mafia creature really isn't that much better than a CMC 6-8 creature, so getting everyone into that position will be my top priority for the first few turns. These creatures will be tapped for mana for the vast majority of the time, so it shouldn't impact your reads on blockers  Cheers, MG | ||
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I'll be leaving in an hour and a half. If fewer than 5 other players have voiced an opinion on Minds Aglow by then, I'm going to hold onto it for now until everyone is aware of it. | ||
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1 - ((4 ncr 0)(56 ncr 5))/(60 ncr 5) ~= 30% of hitting one or more copies. MG | ||
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1) Cast Minds Aglow T1, hope to hit Collective Voyage (very high odds if we do all draw ~10 cards), Collective Voyage T2, everyone has ~20 lands in play for T3. 2) Mulligan, hope to draw Collective Voyage (30%, I checked the math), everyone has ~10 lands in play for T2. I like the first one - it's much safer, and leaves us all in a much stronger position on T3. Thoughts, everyone? | ||
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BinOnFire
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Cast Minds Aglow T1, hope to hit Collective Voyage (77% if we do all draw ~10 cards), Collective Voyage T2, everyone has ~20 lands in play for T3. | ||
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I personally think that this is the best thing that the town can expect to do on the first few turns, and I'm only waiting for more people to post and acknowledge the plan before playing my Island and casting Minds Aglow. | ||
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BinOnFire
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On January 29 2013 10:07 Aperture Science wrote: So, Mind's Aglow looks completely useless. Awesome. Scumhunting is in Flavor. Magic Discussion is not. It's an investment for turn 3 - the details are on the last page, if you didn't catch them. What else would you be doing this turn, anyways? | ||
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BinOnFire
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Let me rephrase my question - what else would you be doing with your mana this turn? | ||
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Here are the possible outcomes of Minds Aglow: A) Everyone pays 2 mana. Everyone draws 17 cards. B) Some players pay 2 mana. The players who paid, and only the players who paid, draw some number of cards. The other players get nothing. There is no way for everyone to draw a small number of cards. If everyone pays only 1 mana for some reason, we'd all still be drawing 9 cards. The only other alternative is to exclude some players from drawing cards, and this early in the game, I see absolutely no reason to do that. | ||
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On January 29 2013 10:35 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Bin, please get 100% confirmation on how Mind Glow works. I thought everybody would get a card, no matter who used mana for it or not. You are correct, and I apologize for misreading the card :D. Everyone chooses whether or not to contribute to the X, but everyone, regardless of whether they paid or not, draws X cards. That being the case, I'm totally down with your earlier plan to make scummier players and lurkers pay for it. | ||
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BinOnFire
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1) I'm going to cast Minds Aglow, tapping my Island and Forest. With no evidence for a mill deck, I would suggest that everyone voluntarily pay into it so that I can increase my odds of drawing Collective Voyage and thus setting everyone up for T3. 2) Otherwise, default to (DF)TP's plan, and I'd say that iGrok and Marv are the scummiest to me right now, because of iGrok's still-unresolved quip, and Marv's utter lack of thread presence. RockHydra and Stutters are null. So, iGrok, please answer the question. What else would you be casting today? | ||
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On January 29 2013 10:46 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Why so quick Bin? There's no hurry to cast shit. What if Cross or Nova have a super duper card and they could use your mana for it? Remember my commandment: Don't rush shit I haven't casted anything. I'm just re-posting my conclusions here before I leave, partially so that Oats can follow my train of thought when he sees the thread, and partially because I wanted to clear up any remaining misconceptions about what Minds Aglow actually does. | ||
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Yes I think that disscussion for Minds Aglow has run its course, but it wasnt all useless. /Oats | ||
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Actually I think minds aglow helps everybody, not just town. So why wont 'scummy' people contribute mana? Then they can start actually 1 shotting people. | ||
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They/you spent a LOT of time bickering about useless stuff (not just setup, but completely pointless stuff about setup) Then your ENTIRE page 2 filter is whether minds aglow is good, WHICH IT IS. | ||
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BinOnFire
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Then you said that it gives them a chance to look 'townie' Also, yes town can actually have some teeth, but this is also good for scum in the sense that a Vig is good for scum. More often than not, Vig's shoot town. Same with lynches. I would think that scum would want to get enough 'power' to 1 shot people as fast as possible to reduce the number of townies, thats why the card is also good for them /Oats | ||
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Do you know how probability works? there are 8 targets, 6 of them are town. so you hitting town is 75%. Which are really bad odds. Of course its not static, I could have a town read on a scum and then it becomes 6 town 1 scum, reducing the chances even more. Its day 1, CH. I have confidence in my reads, I dont see how that affects my previous statment | ||
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So DontFear, are you saying that we dont use the card? | ||
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I would say im leaning scum on CH, not a strong read though | ||
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That is the only reason so dont be all so 'herp derp town more cards = better' So do you disagree with my point? Or what. | ||
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Of course you dont want to say that you are a selfish bastard. I agree that the more cards you get, and the more mana you can play, the better it is for you. Also better for scum. Town getting stronger is better because scum already start with a big fat 8/8 monster. HOWEVER what I am saying is that its not objectively good for town. There are pro's and con's for playing that card and all you seem to be doing is saying how good it is for town. | ||
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On January 29 2013 12:27 Oatsmaster wrote: All plays that involve people drawing cards are good for EVERYBODY. CH, explain how scum would not want to contribute mana regardless? Also, if you say only the scummy players contribute mana, you are giving scum a free out to 'prove' that they are town On January 29 2013 13:13 Oatsmaster wrote: Vig's are pro town, but in a game with no lurkers, the main target of vigi hits, Chances are that they are gonna hit town. Except now we have 7 vigis. /Oats | ||
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The mafia creature is unblockable right? So putting a 'tank' like 0/1 is useless, which means that yeah I support the decision to play attacking creatures. HOWEVER, this also helps scum because then they can use their other creatures to attack the player they want to kill. Im not sure that Im in favour of having to convince people in order to kill my scum read, especially if I can do it myself. I realise that yes, its like a lynch. DontFear, can you concisely say what do you think town should do? /Oats | ||
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Really not looking good. This post especially On January 29 2013 08:27 Aperture Science wrote: GreYMisT is afk for a few days... I'm lonely Like he is roleplaying, then goes into serious mode, then goes into roleplaying. Lynch him. | ||
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On January 29 2013 18:02 Oatsmaster wrote: Well, I dont think that the 'voting' system will work to well cause you cant really enforce people to 'vote'. Ok what do you guys think about a lynch all lurker's policy, where we hit the person with the lowest post count with all that we got? How do you guys do this?.. | ||
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That way we dont kill people who are lurking that are town because it really really annoys me when people just lurk the shit out of a game. I dont necessarily disagree with your plan, I just think mine is better | ||
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On January 29 2013 21:11 Oatsmaster wrote: Well the point of my policy is to find the lowest poster and DISCUSS whether we hit him or not. The lowest poster thing is not objective, town can make quality posts and scum can make quantity posts. So we go up the line and find the scummiest person, using Lowest post count as a guideline rather than our 'feel' Well Crossfire's entrance is similar to marvs, I think this is weird though I only think a few mana total should be used on it because I don't think it is wise to discard so many cards because that's wasteful. And then he never mentions that again, even though I feel that its a good point if a bit vague, which means that he shouldve discussed it. I get generally noobness feel from him, not alignment indicative though | ||
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SuckonmyTopdeck was also only inactive for a short period of time. However I think before 24 hours, its premature to assume anything | ||
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On January 30 2013 00:44 Oatsmaster wrote: Im not actually sure, you have to ask MG about it. Aperture Science, stop being useless and play. Who do you want dead right now? SO DIFFICULT. | ||
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On January 30 2013 01:42 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: So, how about we all claim what our decks are, so we finally put an end to the "maybe scum has a [insert super deck] deck !?" I have Chain Lightning, Lightning Bolt, Grim Lavamancer, and that kind of shit cards, and my deck is based on those and on Unearth to bring shit back. "But gonzaw! What if scum lie about their deck?" Well it's easy, I have a way to figure out if they are lying or not. If a "scummy" player lies and I figure it out he's lying, easy scum kill. If we know nobody has a "super deck that can instantly kill us" if they were scum, and if someone has that deck at least it's not Cross/SuckDeck/etc, then it's easier to discuss using Mind Glow for the >20 card plan. I agree with some stuff said about Cross, but didn't want to "merciless" attack him out of the bat and wanted to see how he contributed to scumhunting. @Aperture: who do you think is scum? If I had to take a guess, Cross/Nova/Aperture/SuckDeck would be where I'd say the 2 scum are right now. /G Hello everyone, MG here again. I strongly agree with disclosing your deck's premise, as a few of us have already. It's not alignment-indicative, at least in the sense that everyone made their decks before receiving their alignment, so there's no causal link there. In the previous game, people claimed that this would be a bad idea, because it would give scum a better of idea of who to target. Well, in this case, my game plan is to make everyone a potential powerhouse by leveraging card advantage and our numerical advantage. It won't matter who the scum target, because every single town player will have the resources in place to fight back. Speaking of which, my deck's win-condition is Death Grasp. I only have a half hour between classes, but I'll try and address any concerns that crop up. I'm still waiting for a post from Nova, and Aperture Science still hasn't answered the question of what he would play on these upcoming two turns if not contributing to Join Forces. That's worth keeping in mind. Cheers, MG | ||
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What are your thoughts on players besides Aperture Science? | ||
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On January 29 2013 09:45 BinOnFire wrote: To further expand on plan 1) Cast Minds Aglow T1, hope to hit Collective Voyage (77% if we do all draw ~10 cards), Collective Voyage T2, everyone has ~20 lands in play for T3. Everyone drawing cards might not be pro-town, I agree, but everyone having upwards of 20 land by turn 3 is most assuredly good for us: even if the scum players can kill two of us immediately, it's still a 5v2, with a pretty clear indicator of alignment. | ||
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Cheers, MG | ||
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/Oats | ||
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On January 30 2013 10:03 Oatsmaster wrote: Look Igrok, You cant dick around and then post something about you not having fun cause there are people attacking you cause you ARE NOT PLAYING LIKE A TOWNIE. Yes, I can be obnoxious, arrogant, and hostile. These can be useful. I can also be fun, but you've got to be fun with me. To me, mafia is a game - if you aren't having fun while playing it you're doing it wrong. I'd rather have fun and lose than win by ruining the game for everyone. But if you ruin it for me, I'll do the same right back. This is QQ, right here. Everyone else seems interested in finding scum out and winning the game. You dont, so far. /Oats | ||
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Can you post a scum read and reasons? Lotta non scum reads in your filter /Oats | ||
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*MINDBLOWN* I really need to learn how to play MTG | ||
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On January 29 2013 14:27 Crossfire99 wrote: Uh, yeah unless I'm not understanding the magic part correctly. Basically, what you seem to be advocating (feel free to correct me if I misunderstood you) is that people shouldn't play cards which can keep them alive longer. This would be the equivalent of someone fighting to survive a mislynch in a regular game. You don't just want to roll over and die. That only helps scum. This post is really weird, Playing defensive creatures is equivalent to asking a medic to protect you, not defending your mislynch. You can do that by convincing other players not to attack you. This sounds like he is setting up himself to play some defensive cards, which scum would want cause they can block all creatures if they have enough and thus, be invincible while killing everyone else with the MONSTER. | ||
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ApertureScience, feel free attacking me: I'll hopefully have drawn Collective Voyage next turn, and then my primary work is done  . Luckily for you, I'm still not getting a scumread from you yet, so I can only hope that you'll take some time off and cool down.##Play: Island ##Cast: Minds Aglow Cheers, MG | ||
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##Tap Forest: Pay 1 for Join Forces | ||
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gewTD9L.png) | ||
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I think the only suspicious thing about it is the timing. Day 1 is not over and already someone flips out cause too many posts? Also, it comes at a time where everyone was suspicious about him. WIFOM incoming. If I was town and did that, I would probably be apologetic and actually play properly from then. As scum, I might rage. Personal opinion that shouldnt affect your read on Aperture. | ||
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On January 30 2013 15:48 Nova_Terra wrote: Im not finding this to be particularly indicative of CH's alignment. On January 30 2013 16:20 Nova_Terra wrote: I also dont think that its alignment indicative, just quite dumb. On January 30 2013 06:41 Nova_Terra wrote: Dont get me wrong, im pretty much null on CH. I do think it is much too early to give a null read that much power tho. | ||
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/Oats | ||
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Its really weird how Oats is this extremely hostile personality who apparently knows very little about magic, while MG is cool, calm, and collected. Umm ok? Different personalities maybe? Have you actually read any of our previous games. | ||
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BinOnFire
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Half of the stuff you say is fluff is actually Fluff. The rest of the things could be alignment indicative or null but they are not fluff. And most of the 'flipping' as you say, is me quoting other players by bolding their posts. I had no idea it was confusing cause NO ONE commented on it before. Come on Aperture Science. /Oats | ||
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/Oats | ||
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More QQ was inappropriate and uncalled for and I am sorry for that /Oats | ||
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And note that my response to the Strongest point, flip-flopping, is cause Im quoting another players words by bolding them Also Aperture, what do you have to say about that? | ||
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On January 31 2013 00:27 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Seeing as pretty much all the tells come from Oats' behaviour, I have to tentatively disagree. If we tell you that Oats is rather newbie, does that change your verdict in any way? Some things you have down as strong tells I really don't agree with. You give them 7 scum points for this, yet I don't see anything except someone being wrong in a weird way. I do agree with you that it is weird that their whole deck idea is supposedly based around getting everybody up to speed fast, yet Oats is apparently totally not on-board with that plan. Did you guys not discuss the deck beforehand? But is this a scumtell? Or just someone not understanding what the deck is about? I personally didn't have Bin down as town yet, mainly because I feel he could not play his deck any other way and he doesn't done much in the scumhunting department, but I don't have a scum read on him for the things you bring up. Wishy-washy as fuck post. 'I dont think he is scum, blablabla, What you say is accurate, but it could make him both scum and town, blablabla I dont think he is town cause his deck is town favoured but he has been useless.' Uhuh Acro. Ok this sounds to me that you have a scum read for a different reason. Care to share? | ||
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On January 29 2013 21:14 BinOnFire wrote: Well Crossfire's entrance is similar to marvs, I think this is weird though I only think a few mana total should be used on it because I don't think it is wise to discard so many cards because that's wasteful. And then he never mentions that again, even though I feel that its a good point if a bit vague, which means that he shouldve discussed it. I get generally noobness feel from him, not alignment indicative though On January 29 2013 13:59 BinOnFire wrote: Dude, did you even read my post? I don't mention zombies at all. In fact, I talk in general terms. Stronger everybody = good for town. Of course you dont want to say that you are a selfish bastard. I agree that the more cards you get, and the more mana you can play, the better it is for you. Also better for scum. Town getting stronger is better because scum already start with a big fat 8/8 monster. HOWEVER what I am saying is that its not objectively good for town. There are pro's and con's for playing that card and all you seem to be doing is saying how good it is for town. | ||
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After it was suggested, there was no opposition so its not like I had to push it or anything. Look, how does that make me scummy? /Oats | ||
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People (me) bite So are you scummy for derailing the thread? Double Standerds here. This game is really weird for me to scumhunt cause so far, 1/2 of it has been setup discussion. However, Aperture's post was a good thing, in that it created discussion between the 3 of us. Hopefully, MORE PEOPLE WILL RESPOND TO IT. | ||
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Yes, yes in fact. How does that line up with the analysis here that town get relatively stronger because mafia already start with a powerful creature? I dont see the contradiction. Aperture, can you explain to me exactly what the contradictions are other than me opposing(which im not) my own play? /Oats | ||
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Its not a downside late game, but for example, scum could possibly set it up such that the game ends by day 3 or something with the right cards, and Minds Aglow helps them achieve that. @Ok Acro/IGrok, Im feel like im really bad at Mafia and MTG(LOL DISCREDITING MYSELF), but I thought that it was a good idea at the time and I still do. I dont feel like I was purposefully dragging out the discussion either, if you felt that way, you sure didnt do anything about it. | ||
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Q: How would I have played this deck had I rolled mafia? A: Easy: Play one-sided accelerators like Axebane Guardian and Overgrown Battlement, keep the Join Forces cards in my hand (as opposed to mulliganing to find them), and use smaller Death Grasps in addition to mafia KP to kill people. Q: per iGrok, why am I running Death Grasp? A: Artanis nerfed this from Exsanguinate, which would have just killed everyone regardless of alignment :D. As is, I agree, I need to get 20+ mana for it to become an actual win-condition. Guess what, I'm running 28 basic lands along with other mana sources, and I fully intend to have all of those lands in play by T5. You know, along with everyone else, so that by the time mafia has to deal with the entire town resolving their biggest threats, I'm not rendered completely irrelevant. Q: <some permutation of "Join Forces could be bad for town given some combination of scum advantages to break symmetry">? A: First I'll reiterate that by default, town gains ~7 cards of card advantage for every 2 that the mafia do, taking into consideration abnormalities like not having basic land, or certain decks using the graveyard as a resource. For the mafia to break symmetry on that and actually come out ahead, they'd need to have some crazy engine (not a Storm deck, because those were tacitly banned due to the "everyone-takes-turns-simultaneously" nature of this game), and because they had no ex ante preparation for something like this, it's highly unlikely that they do, and none of the townies do. Q: (Pre-emptively) Why did I play as a hydra account if I was afraid that this would get this messy? A: I saw a lot of interest in the game relative to the number of slots open, and as MTG is one of my favorite games, I didn't want to deny anyone an opportunity to play, regardless of our previous history or the other player's experience/meta. I'm also super busy with recruiting during the first few weeks of this semester, so I was hoping that we would be more active, considering we're each available during different hours of the day. I'm here for a bit. Cheers, MG | ||
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On January 31 2013 02:52 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: @Midnight: Nice of you to finally join us Please....post who you think is scum, post reads, etc. People seem not very fond of you+Oats because you are not really the paragon of pro-town-ness when coming down to scumhunting /G What do you mean, I've been posting whenever I've had the chance :O The filter comparison between SNB's MTGI and MTGII is pretty stark. This post in particular strikes me as very suspicious: On January 30 2013 13:55 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: wut also i will tap my forest to play wild growth on my savannah then i will tap that to put two mana into the other thing also also arguing about how much gonzaw et al is/are posting is stupid. it's like you've never played a game with him before. i used to rage at him too but now i kind of just let the waves of posting wash over me. it makes deep analysis of the game pretty much impossible though, so you either have to filter specific people or else you have to just kind of play on general impressions. but with someone posting that much you can't try and read the whole game. it's just kind of his/their thing. i really wish they would not do it but ive pretty much given up, what are you gonna do. reads time: bin on fire is probably town because he feels town to me right now (lol) no but seriously bin on fire is probably town because of how he's being helpful and promoting discussion and shit. scumreads are tough but right now i'm pointing at whatever the acro hydra is. i really don't like how he was all "you gotta give me your power or else think i'm scum", forcing people into shitty dichotomies is not a good way to go about being townie. also how he's been running for mayor while refusing to acknowledge that he was running for mayor until we made him. okay bedtime -snb As an SNB post, this feels very off to me. Not calling Minds Aglow by name, despite having specifically freaked out about it and Collective Voyage earlier, and then providing the vaguest excuse for a town-read ever, jars strongly with what I've read from him elsewhere. It's just so detached and apathetic, very different from town SNB in MTGI, but very close to how I would have predicted a mafia player to react to the Join Forces mechanic. If anything, he should be ecstatic by the plan, not alarmed, because putting everyone in the position of having huge creatures to attack with sooner makes his policy recommendation much more relevant. Instead of returning to consider the ramifications of that, he sinks further into inactivity. On January 30 2013 06:19 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: i dont have to think you're scum to not want you to get more powerful than anyone else. I just have to think you're likely to come to incorrect conclusions and not listen to me. I think that if you alone have a shambling herd of zombies, that's not good for town, regardless of whether you are town or not. This sounds like a deliberate obfuscation of the plan, which he seemed to perfectly understand a few posts ago. An attempt to cast doubt on CH, sowing seeds for him to return to later? This lets him pick a fight and feign productivity while discrediting a player I expect to be a powerful town asset. His theatrics in casting Oats and I as scum also seems forced and tacky. And his last few posts are all apologies for his MTG ignorance, when that's both easily corrected, and irrelevant to the fact that he hasn't been contributing. | ||
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On January 30 2013 17:41 RockHydra wrote: Read most of the posts. Seems like there is a lot of posts, but most of it involves the raging and is fairly useless. I will try to actually do some scumhunting tonight. going to also contribute a mana to the card drawing thingie On January 30 2013 18:44 RockHydra wrote: I realize I haven't posted much. I will try to get some contributions in tonight. So what does he actually post? On January 31 2013 00:34 RockHydra wrote: Nice work, grok/aperture pretty impressed with the effort. Hope it was fun for you  This is setting a high standard for analysis. I must admit I kinda missed the link at first too when I glanced over it. Never seen the spreadsheet approach before. Lazy sheeping, baaa. Actual contributions? Neigh! | ||
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Crossfire is null to me due to lack of content, but his points aren't all that bad, especially from someone who hasn't played MTG and doesn't realize that drawing N, discarding N is an extremely powerful effect in a vacuum for large N. and I'm lending him the benefit of the doubt, for now. | ||
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>_> | ||
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No hard feelings | ||
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On January 31 2013 02:21 SuckMyTopdeck wrote: Uh, I would actually guess not. The premise would be: Bin (MG + Oats) are scum. MG provides a plan to do with this card, which either a) has the aim of looking "pro-town" b) furthers mafia agenda (mafia have some reason for this card or something). On this basis I don't understand Oats' motivation at all for then proceeding to cast doubt on the plan. If it's good for mafia for whatever reason, they have the motivation for keeping the plan of playing this card looking as townie as possible, which is the opposite of what's been achieved. should have stood by itself. Why follow it up with something that doesn't add any more weight to the argument? | ||
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BinOnFire
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Here's the thing: as soon as Collective Voyage resolves, town immediately becomes much more favored to win the game. The original plan was to draw enough cards off of Minds Aglow to make drawing Collective Voyage extremely likely. Then, if I cast it, town gets a huge advantage and goes on to win the game, most of the time. Had I rolled scum, I would never, ever cast it, for any reason. So now we're in the position where, after I see what cards I draw, here's what you guys see on T2: A) MG casts Collective Voyage - great, regardless of MG's alignment, town just became much more favored to win the game. B) MG doesn't cast Collective Voyage - hmm, either MG is town and simply didn't draw Collective Voyage; or MG is a scum player that would allow the town to draw 7:2 cards in an elaborate ploy that may or may not gain credibility, the actions of his other hydra-head notwithstanding. This is another reason why I wanted to draw more cards off of Minds Aglow - it gives you all a much stronger test for my alignment: If I drew enough cards that there's <5% of me not drawing Collective Voyage, but then I claim to not have drawn a copy of it, then you're left free to entertain whatever alternative hypotheses you want. That's perfectly fair and reasonable. Quantitatively, had we all drawn 16 cards, there'd have been a 91% chance for me to draw at least one Collective Voyage. However, currently, Minds Aglow is only at X=6, so I only have a 67% chance to draw at least one Collective Voyage. I know I'm town, so if I haven't drawn it by T2 of course I'm going to be saying that I didn't draw it. I'm sure you all can see how that could get really awkward, really fast. If I were mafia, could you honestly see me playing this suicidally? It just wouldn't make any sense at all. Cheers, MG | ||
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
Crossfire's sequence of plays looks very anti-town to me (depriving everyone else of 2 draws to play beatdown?), and I'm currently laughing out loud about Braid of Fire. That's an awesome choice for this format, iGrok :D | ||
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
Also hopeless wtf man, why you so lurky? | ||
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
/MG | ||
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
On January 31 2013 04:35 RockHydra wrote: Don't be an idiot. If I post in my morning that I'm going to post in the evening, you should wait till it's actually evening before complaining about empty promises. I'm now gonna do some reading n posting. /zebezt So let's see what you've done in the additional hours you've had since then: - calls me slightly town - calls CW null - calls Nova null, calls Stutters null, and calls Crossfire null - bonus read on DontFear: null-town - calls marv null So, uh, according to him, he and Aperture are mafia? But wait! On January 31 2013 00:34 RockHydra wrote: Nice work, grok/aperture pretty impressed with the effort. Hope it was fun for you This is setting a high standard for analysis. I must admit I kinda missed the link at first too when I glanced over it. Never seen the spreadsheet approach before. So I guess everyone is null or town! As if that weren't silly enough: On January 31 2013 08:35 RockHydra wrote: ALL creatures, or creatures played during Turn 1 (as per the OP)? Also, I think SnB asked, the ninja deck is just for fun. My draw looks alright, but I'm not really going to be a powerhouse for a while, if at all. ~Hopeless Did you somehow miss the news that everyone was going to be getting at the very least 2 more lands from me T2, along with any other Join Forces effects I get? 5 lands for a ninja deck, with a full hand, should be more than enough to start putting threats on the board! This post to me says "don't hurt me!" and combined with his null reads on everyone, makes me even more convinced that RockHydra is scum. | ||
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
Im still thinking that CH is scum. I guess if we flip Nova, and Xfire and Aperture and there is only 1 scum, LYNCH CH. I have not contributed cause im lazy and have no idea what to post cause im totes scum. UHUH APERTURE IM SCUM. | ||
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
I guess if we flip Nova, and Xfire and Aperture and there is only 1 scum Read. Seriously. Also I got hit by mafia creature so, Im the only confirmed town here. SO SHEEP ME. And kill Xfire first. Then Aperture. | ||
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
How does it not make sense? Actually I think CH might be 3rd scummiest. MINIONS. hey | ||
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
Also I did read it, maybe someone should explain this Super obvious thing. | ||
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
I assume you are Acro, cause I dont think Dandel is a dick. I might be wrong though :/ /Oats | ||
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
Acro is like a boxer and Dandel is his small excitable trainer that is like 'HIT HIM COME ON.' Heh. /Oats | ||
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
I've got nothing for you guys but a New Frontiers for 2. Hopefully that's enough  ##Play: Forest ##Cast: New Frontiers X=2 ##Search for: Plains, Swamp | ||
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
Since you just assumed that Aperture is town. | ||
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
I'm going to laugh even harder if I gain life somehow this turn, and the scum-team has to waste another turn of attacking to kill me :D MG | ||
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
Oats' shit just feels bad, and MG isn't playing like I know he can in a mason circle (which is what a Hydra is). This is really weird, wont Scum Oats+MG make sure I dont do idiotic things? Like the thing you just called me scum for is what scum WOULDNT do. | ||
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
That said, and as will become clear when our QT link is published, Oats and I are usually on at different times, and we've resorted to posting our individual thoughts without coming to a proper consensus. Heck, this is the first time we've both been on at the same time, and do you see us making any sense together ?That said, I've already cast New Frontiers and discarded a Death Grasp (addressing your earlier concern about my claim to be running the card in the first place). If I were scum, why would Crossfire out himself for the sole purpose of making my death this turn possible? I'm not asking for an exhaustive case. Just answer me this: Assuming that I'm scum, and that Crossfire is scum, as you've agreed, justify his actions. Frame the scum agenda. Surely the gameplan wouldn't have been to give town advantages and then immediately claim scum? MG | ||
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
On February 01 2013 11:48 Aperture Science wrote: That argument doesn't make logical sense. If you're both scum, he doesn't have to worry about doing 2 damage to you because you won't take a second hit from the mafia beast. By the way, if you have another mind's aglow or another join forces card, I'll put all of my mana into it. But then there's no reason for him to play Syphon Soul in the first place. If I'm not getting hit by the mafia kp next turn, that play makes no sense at all, especially since he hasn't bothered to explain himself at all. And yes, I'm getting at a logical contradiction, whose premises are that Crossfire and I are mafia. Can you see what it is? | ||
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
So whatever it is you're doing, feel free to share :D | ||
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
Crossfire, Mind explaining why you used Soul Siphon as town? | ||
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
This is just a precaution so that the scum team doesn't decide to get all clever and leave me alive in the hopes of mislynching me. If I'm alive tomorrow, I'm going to reveal everyone's hands, and then together we can decide on what to discard. As for actual analysis, I'm quite unimpressed with Aperture's second spreadsheet PBPA. First off, it's hosted in the same workbook as his PBPA on me, so it's clear that he's not just updating these as he reads, but is rather making them as he is forced to present cases. Furthermore, bouncing reads off of your other hydra head =/= using a constantly updating simultaneous-entry Google Doc where you can just default to agreeing with what the other person said already. Look at it: if iGrok's blank entries are 0s, then they differ by more than 2 on only 3 posts, or only 8% of Stutters total posts. The beauty of having multiple people go over a filter is that they notice different things about it, and they often find different things about it suspicious. Scum are known to have trouble making good cases on townies, and what do you do when you're having trouble? You get lazy! Now Aperture Science is claiming that between the two of them, their reads on Stutters were both independent and also almost exactly the same? Take that into consideration, along with everything else, and it looks quite scummy. In fact, I'd be quite willing to bet that if we could get a look at Aperture Science's hand, we would not see: On February 01 2013 11:33 Aperture Science wrote: (...) and I can't do anything with this ridiculous, BULLSHIT hand. MG | ||
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
While you're here, mind revealing your hand? It's going to be public information if I live tomorrow | ||
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
And I have no idea how I can contribute. /Oats | ||
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
ALTHOUGH iGrok is pretty suspicious cause On February 03 2013 03:44 Aperture Science wrote: When it comes to iGrok you either you can either have the emotional, trolling version or the scumhunting, logical version. Can't have both. I prefer the scumhunting one myself but if you are displeased with us analyzing stutters you can certainly say so. Like yeah, so far the scumhunting logical one hasent shown up. 'analyzing' the filter of a player is really easy to do as Scum/Town so therefore, Aperture has not clearly shown that he is town yet. | ||
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
On February 03 2013 23:27 Clockwork Hydra wrote: The decklist he gave doesn't actually sound that dangerous imo. At the very least, not until he has 9+ mana up. Which might mean he has something else "dangerous" in his deck he didn't tell about, or he just wants to cast this Scrambleverse stuff and go full RNG. Which I wouldn't have a problem with, since everything will be 6x more likely to hit town. So statistically, it'd be a REALLY bad move for scum, and really good for town. Tho a really dangerous thing (potentially) was Acidic Ground, but bin only got a new frontiers off, so he can't just oneshot everything with it either. I feel like, if Aperture is scum, he'd probably be more happy to go through the deck with MA, let everyone get a million basics next turn, and then just instagib half of town. Cross and himself both not running (many) basics themself, and Cross running this global dmg scum deck of his, it would basically (no pun intended) be an awesome "we win nao" move. And AT LEAST get people into one-shot range of the mafia beast. Add in one of those copy spells... Now now, it's possible he just didn't think about it and stuff, so I'mma not get too deep into those explanations. Just some food for thought. I'll have to ask Acro on what else that deck's supposed to do, though. Mb I missed something big. (Once he's lucid again, that is) It sounds way2complicated for me. ~dandel Um, guys, that's not the deck he's playing in this MTG Mafia II game. That's his real-life EDH deck (I'm not sure why he brought up the subject in the first place, and I apologize for asking him about it, but I didn't expect him to post his decklist :3). Let's not get distracted by that, of all things :D MG | ||
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
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BinOnFire
Laos123 Posts
MG | ||
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