EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXXIII - Page 14
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
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threesr
73 Posts
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
On December 19 2012 09:33 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm PST, my only other experience with Mafia is playing the SC2 mod so I guess we will see if any of those skills translate to this. Do you think that lurking is acceptable as town? Do you think that lying is acceptable as town? | ||
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On December 19 2012 10:16 Chromatically wrote: Do you think that lurking is acceptable as town? Do you think that lying is acceptable as town? I think it should be handled on a case to case basis when it comes to lurking. Sometimes it helps when someone just sits back and tries to figure things out instead of discussing every point. If it comes towards the end of the game, maybe the lurker needs to come out of the shadows. However, lying as town is basically team-killing, especially if it gets another townie lynched. However there can be certain circumstances where lying can get a mafia member to lose focus and say something stupid. Thanks for pressing me for an answer I guess, just curious as to why you needed an answer from me =/ | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
Can you elaborate on when you think that a townie lying will "get a mafia member to lose focus"? | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On December 19 2012 09:25 threesr wrote: EST umm yea like I think its important to do that stuff but Im just saying Im not going to automatically vote for someone who doesnt feel like doing that. I have to disagree with. I will concede that I will not "automatically vote" for a lurker. [Rationale: 5 people are lurking, who do you choose? Its not 'automatic' in a literal sense, thought is still required] I stand by the Lynch All Lurkers however, because, Allowing Lurkers to "Fly Under the Radar" is creating an environment where Mafia are not compelled to Scumslip. Please note the below. On December 19 2012 10:43 Chromatically wrote: So are you saying that lurking is more acceptable towards the beginning of the game? Can you elaborate on when you think that a townie lying will "get a mafia member to lose focus"? @Threesr Chromatically raises extremely valid questions to "cDgCorazon" I would appreciate if you could also answer the same question. (including the lose focus) | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On December 19 2012 08:05 shz wrote: 2) How do you think scum would try to infiltrate us? No idea. I guess by acting like town? I'm not that knowledgeable about what they can do. I don't think just lurking is the best strategy for them though. @shz This is not asking about the mafia special powers [i.e "what they can do]. I was asking about tactics/methodology behind play. [You stated lurking isnt the best strategy] What do you think is a suitable mafia strategy? | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
LAL: I think LAL the policy is stupid, but think LAL the conversation about whether to implement the LAL policy is great. My lynch decision making is flexible, but lurking constitutes a substantial markup on the probability of me lynching you. If you lurk, I will be on your case, and if your answers are not adequate I will put you on my to-lynch list. For lying I am the same. In the one game I've played I lied to hide that I was a cop. If you lie this draws massive attention, but it's important to look for motive, intention, and possible outcomes as well. - Cakepie - Kickstart - Fatchunk - Aquanim Have not posted yet (correct me if I'm wrong). Please disregard this list when considering my contribution, I post lists because they are useful and I have them anyway, not to appear useful. Keep your list hate to yourself  @Threesr You are about to come under massive amounts of pressure if you don't conform/comply with LAL attitudes (not a threat, just a prediction). Your position at the moment is too empathetic for a game where the most important tool is the noose. There will be times when people will lurk because they don't know what to do, and at these times, it's more likely that they don't know what to do because they are a more complex role (scum). If you are looking for certainty then you are almost certainly playing the wrong game XD To nubs in general: Please make an effort to keep your posts clear and informative, as a lot of us will be playing catchup. Do not be under the impression that (wordcount) = (town behaviour), others and myself will go through your filter and swathes of cruddy posts actually draw attention. Please keep the bickering impersonal, and have a great game :D My previous game (cop) (win) | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
The above post has my previous game posted at the bottom, it seems to blend in with the background so I thought I should draw attention to it so you did not think my intention was the inverse of this | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On December 19 2012 08:34 Chromatically wrote: *tips hat* Basically, townies should not lie and I have no problem lynching anyone who is lying; In a more advanced game, there might be times that lying is acceptable as town, but it is not needed in this game. Townies, don't lie. What do you mean by "how they would go about infiltrating us"? They're going to act as townie as possible without actually contributing. From experience (XXXI), I wouldn't expect them to offer any controversial opinions because it really is nerve-wracking to be put under suspicion as scum. IMO, end of day votecounts are the best form of evidence against scum. @Chromatically (1) So far you are my best town read. (Based on your other comments in thread) In response to your commentary above. (a) I agree, townies should not lie. It does nothing to aid the environment. (b) Infiltrating is in relation to: receiving reads as "Townie". Some mafia may be content to sit in the shadows, others may try to be T1000/social network us. My question was designed to promote discussion regarding methods Mafia may use to come across as Town. Therefore giving other townies the tools to analyse quotes!! (c)I disagree with votecounts as the best form of evidence. I think they are a very substantial form of evidence. But this game in particular seems to be 50/50 split between America/Australia timezones. I think in a lot of cases, people will not be available for last minute vote swaps (thus, reducing the likelihood of bandwagon swaps [which i think is the evidence you are alluding to]) | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On December 19 2012 08:45 Sylencia wrote: Hey guys, won't be the most active player during day 1, as I have work during the day and tomorrow night I have a work dinner party, but I'll try to be as active as I can when possible (posting this at work - gogo compilation time :D) After that, I should be all free from any obligations whatsoever. To answer the questions proposed: 1) I still am not sure whether or not lurker kills on day 1 are good, it's a high variance move which I don't necessarily like, but if no one has come off as being scummy, it's better than having an obvious mislynch. 2) I'm sure there will be some sort of pressure voting happening in this game, especially since we don't know how many mafia there are, they could easily start ganging up on one person and it'd be a lot harder to detect than last game where it was guaranteed to be 2 members, it could be fairly high at 3 + even a serial killer who would be willing to lynch anyone since they don't care whatsoever. 3) I don't even know if I have a slight allergy to them, my mouth gets itchy when I eat prawns  Moc: Low quality post are just filler posts which doesn't really help encourage discussion or which are kind of pointless and can be considered just posting to create noise. The latter is the type I dislike more though, since it becomes a lot harder to catch up on the thread without getting lost and having to backtrack and read again. @Sylencia I appreciate that you are busy today. At some stage in the game, all of us will be in the same situation. For me personally though, this does not make you void from a vote. For the time being ##fos:Sylencia I will re-consider once I have read more comments from yourself. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
Nice first post. Does have a townie feel to if (if not a bit forced....) My read on you is still: null. Considering you have expressed your past experience with this game as a cop, can you please enlighten us all with what behavior you were looking for when trying to identify targets to "inspect" | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
With regards to vote counts, I meant more of just looking at the general votecount again, after knowing the lynched player's alignment. For instance, in XXXII, town lynched mafia d1 with only 2 people not voting for him (IIRC). Town should have been able to discern that one of those two was almost certainly scum and win the game from there. If someone ends up flipping town, we can look at who the competing wagon was, who was pushing one lynch over the other, who didn't seem to care about the lynch, etc. and get a lot of useful information. This is also why the d1 lynch is so hard, of course. | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
On December 19 2012 11:09 Mocsta wrote: @Sylencia I appreciate that you are busy today. At some stage in the game, all of us will be in the same situation. For me personally though, this does not make you void from a vote. For the time being ##fos:Sylencia I will re-consider once I have read more comments from yourself. Is there a particular reason you find Syl more suspicious than others who have only posted once? | ||
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OmniEulogy
Canada6593 Posts
I agree Crom is currently my #1 town read as well just judging on how he started his other game and this one. That or he learned to phrase his sentences much better as scum. Mocsta you show a lot of interest as how Mafia should play this game to not draw attention to themselves. Giving me a weird vibe from it. | ||
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threesr
73 Posts
On December 19 2012 10:43 Chromatically wrote: So are you saying that lurking is more acceptable towards the beginning of the game? Can you elaborate on when you think that a townie lying will "get a mafia member to lose focus"? 1. I think lurking is fine at all points in the game. 2. I dont understand this question at all. | ||
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Spaghetticus
Australia451 Posts
In my last game the scum only had two players and there were no ways to interfere with the reliability of the cop power. I was 100% certain that any inspection I made was correct, which made for a bit of a lopsided game. The game ended quickly as one of the scum was trying to opt out of the game and was playing fast and loose. I can't really give great insights into cop play as I was actually correct in my initial read on both scum, which is something due more to luck than any skill on my part. | ||
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Chromatically
United States1700 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On December 19 2012 10:43 Chromatically wrote: So are you saying that lurking is more acceptable towards the beginning of the game? Can you elaborate on when you think that a townie lying will "get a mafia member to lose focus"? | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On December 19 2012 11:19 OmniEulogy wrote: @Mocsta @Cromatically Mocsta you show a lot of interest as how Mafia should play this game to not draw attention to themselves. Giving me a weird vibe from it. Fair Question. I indeed have. Please refer to the quote below. On December 19 2012 11:06 Mocsta wrote: ... My question was designed to promote discussion regarding methods Mafia may use to come across as Town. Therefore giving other townies the tools to analyse quotes!! I think it speaks for itself. | ||
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cakepie
985 Posts
Alright, GLHF; let's jump straight into the discussion: ----- 1) Stance on Lurkers: i.e. Do you policy lynch? I am all for discouraging lurking, but policy lynching should never be a substitute for scum hunting. This game is about building well reasoned cases against suspected scum, pressing them, and the discussing and logically evaluating the cases on the strength of the evidence. When town is able to foster active, productive discussion, lurking is just another scummy behavior to be used to build up a case against suspicious players, and prolonged lurking in particular becomes more suspicious as the game continues. There is never a good reason for town to lurk. Only by discussing our reasoning and lines of thought can we hope to find and eradicate scum. Town must never clam up for fear of making mistakes -- 1. it is through discussion that we may hope to correct errors in reasoning; and 2. more importantly, in the event of a mislynch, it would leave trail for others to follow. Hence, a silent townie is a far more useless than a bad townie. I feel that it is futile to try to set predefined activity standards for what amounts to lurking; every game varies. Quality is also important. Insofar as fostering a healthy level of activity goes, this game is off to a good start; what we need to do now is to keep the discussion going. When we do get to the point when a few individual players are clearly standing out as not contributing productively (whether as a consequence of lurking or otherwise) we shall evaluate those cases at that time. Policy discussion is nice to start the ball rolling and get people posting, but now that a good chunk of us are here, we need to switch our focus to scum hunting soon. ----- On December 19 2012 07:50 Mocsta wrote: 2) How do you think scum would try to infiltrate us? You need to look up "infiltrate" in a dictionary. There is nothing to "infiltrate". The scum are already among us, posting openly in this public thread. Unless you have just made a slip? Hmmm? Scum may seek to sway opinion and/or cause confusion and influence the lynch. But everything here is open to the scrutiny of all. As town we initially outnumber scum; with responsible play and sound wits and logic, we can prevail. Remember: when everyone contributes, even a mislynch is informative for the survivors. ----- On seafood: Seafood is yummy. That it all. ----- On December 19 2012 08:29 threesr wrote: I don't have a problem with lurkers. On December 19 2012 08:42 threesr wrote: I like lurking because a lot of the time its hard to know what to say. Obviously it doesn't benefit the town but I don't think it hurts the town that much also. It benefits the scum because it makes it easier for them to blend in but good players should still be able to find the mafia even with lurkers. I disagree, and disapprove. If you are not thinking and scum hunting, then you are not playing responsibly as town. If you are afraid of being wrong, then I say: by sharing your thoughts, mistake can be corrected, and you leave a trail of reasoning that we can look back at even if you are killed or mislynched. Behavior that does not help town but benefits scum is a net loss for town, and we cannot condone it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386816¤tpage=13#249 A complete ban elsewhere and a modkill in witchcraft does no bode well for you. Your posts so far have been short and without substance. I don't know what your arrangement with the mods is for this game, nor is it my place to question that. But if you don't step up your game soon, be prepared to be under heavy scrutiny. ----- On lying: In this thread it is scum that is trying to mislead town, especially while town outnumbers scum. While there are some cases where town players, and blue roles in particular, may have reason to lie in some sort of gambit against scum, there is no place for that in this newbie game, none of us are at that level yet. When a townie lies, there is a far greater chance that it will sow confusion amongst us, and when discovered, it will distract from hunting actual scum. Bottom line: it is not acceptable for town to lie in this game, it will hurt us more than it helps us. ----- That's where I stand on policy issues and early game fluff. Going to get brunch and go about my day for now, be back in a bit. | ||
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