@ Kush

I would have liked to think that I would have found you as the last scum, but given my play this game, I probably would have found a way to lynch JieXian anyway =P

Well atleast I acknowledged a double-bus as a possibility. Djo spamming your "scumslips" was fucking excellent though. Like that was awesome.

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

December 28 2012 02:25 GMT

#3078

On December 28 2012 11:22 Keirathi wrote:

Show nested quote +

While they were busy being mad at each other in scum QT, I was reading their posts like "Damn, they've distanced themselves so hard that even if one gets lynched, there's no way the other does." It was really, really good play.

Also Hapa: you called kush town day 1 because he wasn't being whiny/angry. Its easy not to be whiny/angry when you have nothing to be mad about

He does those things when he's under pressure, not when things are smooth sailing.

He adjusted his meta more than I realized. He came out with more anger in some of his previous scumgames, but perhaps they were too dated for me to rely on.

Also, when I pressured him in the early-game/mid-game for lurking, he handled it much better than I expected him to. All and all, my expectations are now much adjusted. A little too overly-reliant on meta with him.

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

December 28 2012 02:26 GMT

#3080

What did ghost end up doing last night btw? Curious.

Also Kush, who would you have NK'd given the opportunity?

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

December 28 2012 02:30 GMT

#3083

Rofl how did everyone in the QT think I was scum in the early game? I've played two scumgames... the respect is fun, but like damn guys.

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

December 28 2012 02:36 GMT

#3089

On December 28 2012 11:33 Dandel Ion wrote:
Cause you were really damn scummy.

Too long ago for me to be able to explain why though.
Guess you said things and such.

Also, I lol'd when I read this in the scum qt:

Show nested quote +

Like how though? I was the most active player in the thread throughout the game. I was basically the reason the town wasn't a lurk-fest.

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

December 28 2012 02:38 GMT

#3090

On December 28 2012 11:36 gonzaw wrote:
To be honest when cheesecake said the "If Eywa is scum we lynch Hapa"....like I instantly thought "He can't be serious and post that if he's scum" so I kind of (very slightly) thought he was town because of that (of course with the plan talk I forgot about that later >_> )

I've seen scum do that before. My scumbuddy in Newbie XXI got lynched for "slipping" in the same way.

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

December 28 2012 02:40 GMT

#3093

On December 28 2012 11:39 kushm4sta wrote:
I shouldnt have conceded. jx voting for ghost compeltly invalidated the check on djodref

Nah. Still had to get around the fact that Mr.CC didn't win the elections.

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

December 28 2012 02:43 GMT

#3097

Honestly, if JX claimed that he voted ghost in-thread, I might just have lynched JX for the hell of it. No joke.

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

December 28 2012 02:44 GMT

#3098

On December 28 2012 11:42 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Oh hell, you guys were gonna shoot me? Dat hapa jailkeep.

Dat JK for the completely wrong reasons >>

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

December 28 2012 02:54 GMT

#3100

On December 28 2012 11:52 kushm4sta wrote:
you guys dont realize it but jx actually won this game for you.

so you were going to elect no one as witch, since no one had the majority vote.

what you actually wanted was to abstain instead of vote no one.

djo and I were counting on no one getting witchcraft.

but jx made fixed that problem and fooled me into thinking the no one/abstain thijg didn't work

No, someone would have won anyway. In the event of a tie, the person who got voted first wins witchcraft. BH mentioned it somewhere in-thread.

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

December 28 2012 17:22 GMT

#3132

JX... what are you talking about? Kush and Djo understood the plan. They would have looked terrible if they objected to it (after all it was pro-town to accept it). I have no idea why you objected, and your antics nearly screwed the town singlehandedly.

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

December 28 2012 23:00 GMT

#3149

So if I may offer some of my own thoughts on the game:

Mafia Play

The Djo/Kush situation should illustrate just how potentially devastating independently minded scumplayers can be. The bus was very convincing and quite a nice play (even if somewhat "unintentional").

Unfortunately, I think it was too extreme, and a bit too fancy for the situation. For one, scum were screwed if Djo actually ended up getting lynched on Day 3. Secondly, fancy play was just not needed given this roster of players. Such busses are great for throwing off a star-studded roster of veteran townies, and not a relatively inexperienced lineup. If scum just killed me off early, mafia could have probably pushed mislynches without much effort. Good scum-play isn't always fancy, and the simplest/straightforward plays are often effective and best.

Regarding my Play

Ugh. Well I'm still pretty angry about how I played this game, but it was educational in a way. I was looking for excuses to think people were town rather than finding scum. In addition, I pretty much lynched Eywa because I was pissed at him rather than actually thinking he was scum.

Anyway, as far as personal "lessons" go for future iterations of "town-Hapa"
1) Stop spamming outside of Day 1.
2) Stop defending other players if I'm not 99% sure they're town.
3) Do not talk to idiot townies (or just give less of a shit).

The Setup

The setup was quite ingenious, and I think preventing voting-abstentions will fix a lot of the "using votes as DT checks" problem. There will be situations where you can use the voting system to confirm a townie, but it'll be much more situational (and require far more town coordination).

Overall, I thought scum played the better game, and scum could have won if not for some excessively fancy play and forgetting the N4 NK. Town scrapped it's way out through setup abuse, which I don't mind, but leaves me with a sour taste. Though those are the games you learn from the most.

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

December 28 2012 23:02 GMT

#3150

Oh also, I thought the DT check system should be re-balanced. There's very little incentive for the town to use Blaspheme over Scrying in most phases of the game. I think Blaspheme should give accurate checks when checking millers. It gives a bit more balance to the power-relationship of the two.

So basically Scrying is the default check, and Blaspheme is the "proof-read" check.

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

December 28 2012 23:07 GMT

#3153

As a last bit, I'm worried that the witch-hunter is a bit too powerful of an individual role. For example, lynching the WH on Day 1 is certain death for scum. I like the effect, but it's just too much power in the hands of one person. I think you should devise a way to split it up between multiple roles.

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

December 28 2012 23:13 GMT

#3158

Ah whoops.

Anyway, I'd actually support it being a global scum ability rather than tied to an individual player. It seems very key to scum surviving in the game. Or perhaps it could be toned down from an "any-time" thing to being "tagged" on the other 1-shot scum actions (RB, Mason, etc).

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

December 28 2012 23:15 GMT

#3159

On December 29 2012 08:11 DoYouHas wrote:
I think you should take out or alter the mason option. I can't see how you can balance it.

This too. Mason seems remarkably underpowered compared to the other options. Honestly I don't think I'd ever use mason chat over something like a DT check.

On December 29 2012 08:12 Djodref wrote:
@ Hapa

It was not fancy play, it was just Kush and me being stupid and really pissed off at each other.
I really think that Cheese was the mislynch we should have pushed D2, and there was good potential for it.

Did you realize that people had to abstain and not vote for ”nobody” so your plan could work properly ?

If I have to look back at this game, I would say it's not possible to win at scum if you don't play as a team.

Oh eh. Details details =P

Hapahauli

United States9305 Posts

December 29 2012 04:36 GMT

#3181

@ BH

I'm not sure why you want the "mason" ability in the game so bad. I think it's really flawed, and probably unfixable in this setup:
1) There's really no incentive to use a mason chat over a DT check. Both serve the same purpose, and a DT check is a more accurate scum-hunting option for 90% of the player-base.
2) There are huge incentives against using mason chat on scumreads! Especially early in the game (before witchhunter shots are used), why on earth would you ever mason chat your scumread? You risk outing yourself for a potential vigi shot.

@ Djo

On December 29 2012 09:04 Djodref wrote:

Show nested quote +

I don't know about Hapa. It kept JieXian really focused on the fact that he was still alive. I think it could have won us the game if the CC kill would have gone through.

And for my attitude, I was really exhausted and about to take my plane when kush finally posted his case against me ^^
Also I got less involved cause I'm in France now.

I made a similar mistake in Newbie XXI (I was scum). A player (JingleHell) led a mislynch and generally seemed off of our trail. While he was the most active player in the game, I decided not to shoot him because I felt he was helping our cause. The next day, he led a last-minute lynch on my scumbuddy, and we shot him immediately. With the most active town-player in the game gone, it was so easy to push mislynches left and right.

You should consider using NK's on active and/or veteran players in the future. One of scum's objectives is to have a safe platform to push their goals. Getting rid of obstructive townies is always a great thing for scum. Also, if you shoot all the active players early-on, you're usually left with a lurkish, easily manipulated town in the later stages of the game.