Newbie Mini Mafia XXXII

On December 02 2012 18:20 Oatsmaster wrote:
CC IS NOT PLAYING??? </3

On December 02 2012 19:34 DarthPunk wrote:


You should /in. Then we can dub you all the class of XXXI-XXXII.

<3

On December 02 2012 19:47 Promethelax wrote:
Cheese, brah, why you gotta play me like this? C'mon man, this game is for you. Don't leave me hanging.

On November 27 2012 11:57 Oatsmaster wrote:
also to everyone who said that I tunneled CC, You do not understand what tunneled MEANS.

On December 03 2012 11:49 Oatsmaster wrote:
Step 1: Tunnel the vettiest player off their first post
Step 2: Lynch All Lurkers
Step 3: Claim Blue
Step 4: ????
Step 5: WIN

On December 04 2012 10:55 Kickstart wrote:
Yes, that is why you say "don't lurk or else" and move on, not spend numerous pages discussing it and asking questions about policy lynching - spending tons of time discussing policy lynch is unproductive. As soon as everyone agrees that lurking will make people seriously consider lynching you move on.

On December 04 2012 11:15 yamato77 wrote:
EBWOP: Also, why do you ask?

On December 04 2012 11:16 Rad wrote:
@kick sorry missed the jkjk =/ I'm quick to jump on shit ideas ^^

On December 04 2012 11:36 Rad wrote:


Yes, lynching someone strictly based on their play in a previous game seems stupid. Town wants to lynch scum, not shoot in the dark and hope. Scum wants to do stupid shit like lynch the easy target.

Do you read that idea differently? Would you be ok with the idea of lynching oats due to his play last game?

On December 04 2012 10:29 Rad wrote:
@yamato I'll answer your #3 because it is so relevant: cheesecake of course (of the Mr. variety)

Now on to CC's questions... =P

1. I've played 2 games of mafia, NMM XXVIII and XXX, town in both. First was vig, second vt. I obs'd a good amount of chrono until it became overwhelming (think I got 140 pages in then my head exploded) and all of last NMM, and some of paranoid. Played a lot of sc2mafia the past week or two which probably translates to shit for TL mafia skills, but we'll see.

2. No idea cheese, I feel like that scenario would have to be played out however it should be at the time. I can't see myself leaning one way or the other 100% of the time =/ Probably lean towards lurker lynch I guess? minor-moderate is going to be pretty subjective...

3. Green. I'll let you figure out why (spoiler: it's cause I'm a genius).

On December 04 2012 11:16 Rad wrote:
@kick sorry missed the jkjk =/ I'm quick to jump on shit ideas ^^

On December 04 2012 11:36 Rad wrote:


Yes, lynching someone strictly based on their play in a previous game seems stupid. Town wants to lynch scum, not shoot in the dark and hope. Scum wants to do stupid shit like lynch the easy target.

Do you read that idea differently? Would you be ok with the idea of lynching oats due to his play last game?

On December 04 2012 12:59 Rad wrote:


I think he goes red with anger easily and if town, confirmation bias will kill his ability to reason. However, his actions are pushing for conversation and that's a good thing (especially at the beginning). If axle feels pressured to talk more, great, and if he doesn't, we can read the situation based on that.

I don't really like how you stopped it early on though. Would you prefer yamato ask a question, get ignored, and drop it?

On December 05 2012 01:29 Oatsmaster wrote:
Kickstart is scummy.




Last game, we lynched lurkers and it didnt go too well, vets posted and said that its unlikely that a scum is a lurker and STILL
Kickstart posts this. It reads as very wishy, washy allowing him to keep all his options open.
Lynching a lurker is good for scum because it doesnt really show strong opinions either way because its a lurker, coinflippy.




This vote is so bad, no explaination why this is scum..




Kickstart is looking for town support here, he doesnt want to vote yamato if no one else votes for him...

His whole case on yamato is just him jumping on a small thing that he doesnt even explain how it is scum aligned or even aligned at all.

##Vote: Kickstart

On December 05 2012 02:34 yamato77 wrote:
No, it is worth talking about because you have yet to adequately explain yourself.

Oats is voting for Kick to make him explain his shoddy reasoning behind throwing suspicion on me, something I agree with. Then you attack Oats based largely on the fact that you don't like the vote. Why would town CC attack Oats for pressuring kick unless he didn't agree with this logic?

Stop trying to change the subject.

On December 05 2012 02:50 yamato77 wrote:
Stop dodging my question. If you don't agree with Oats' vote, as you claim, you need a better reason than your nitpick of kick's posting not being alignment indicative. It's a pressure play. Of course you can't indicate alignment from so little but you have to do something to draw more information out.

On December 05 2012 03:17 yamato77 wrote:
Yes, I know all that and I don't see the point in doing it if you are town. You are looking for scum, not criticising other players for their arguments. You admitted that kick could be seen as suspicious so why wouldn't you just let kick respond to Oats instead of harping on him pointlessly?

I do, however, see the scum motivation. Scum CC would see this as an opportunity to look like he's putting pressure on people while drawing little real attention to himself because he never offers his own opinion. It is pulling teeth to get you to give any information, why?

If you are town you would cooperate.

On December 05 2012 00:30 Oatsmaster wrote:
No, I wasnt providing advice on how he could look more town,
I was giving a suggestion on more effective/accurate ways to win the game as town.
If he is scum, it doesnt matter.

I am concerned that he is scum. HOWEVER, it doesnt really affect much BECAUSE if you know that someone is scum, you just ignore them.

Currently I have a slight town read on yamato, however he seems to be acting differently as opposed to last game. Probably because he wants to improve like me, but you never know.

On December 05 2012 01:05 Oatsmaster wrote:
Im leaning town on CC, he seems his normal logical self.
Im null on Axle, his questions are odd but maybe thats just his playstyle.
Im leaning slightly scum on yamato and kickstart
Kickstart goes into a discussion on whether lynching lurkers is good which is unnecessary at the start of the game because who knows, we might not have lurkers. Then he jokes around for a while and suddenly FoS yamato on badgering Axle. Like what kind of reasoning is that?
Yamato
+ Show Spoiler +
he only questioned axle then Unvoted him for unclear reasons..

On December 05 2012 03:22 Arnarnion wrote:
CC, do YOU have any reads on Kick? Have you seen any behavior on his part that would suggest town over scum or vice versa? You attack Oat's opinion on Kick, but what is yours?

On December 05 2012 03:23 yamato77 wrote:
Also funny is that you call this discussion pointless when your criticism of Oats was even more so.

On December 05 2012 09:31 Oatsmaster wrote:
I changed my read on yamato because at that time, I had the impression that he was null to slightly town, then when I looked through yamato's filter, I found some scummy stuff.
He starts out with the introductory post then has no content otherwise.
That gives me the impression that he is asking questions to look involved and notice, he asked so many questions to axle who looked ill-equipped to answer, so its not very effective in finding scum.

On December 04 2012 11:14 Oatsmaster wrote:
bad town play is contridictions/180s everywhere.
Scum play is subtle 180s and weird logic/ cases

On December 04 2012 11:43 Oatsmaster wrote:
And its a fucking stupid idea to lynch me for my play last game.
Now stop discussing it.

On December 04 2012 23:47 Oatsmaster wrote:
LOL I am town, what do you mean pretend?

I am getting peoples opinions of issues like policy lynch, changing of meta and that helps me to define reads on players,
If people dont talk, then I cant read them .

On December 04 2012 22:53 Oatsmaster wrote:
I would probably tell you to l2play or something?
Scum want to cause confusion and make sure the town cant function as well.
I really dont know what I will do if I was scum :/

On December 05 2012 00:24 Oatsmaster wrote:
I automatically assume everyone is town, then get scumreads.

On December 05 2012 00:30 Oatsmaster wrote:
No, I wasnt providing advice on how he could look more town,
I was giving a suggestion on more effective/accurate ways to win the game as town.
If he is scum, it doesnt matter.

I am concerned that he is scum. HOWEVER, it doesnt really affect much BECAUSE if you know that someone is scum, you just ignore them.

Currently I have a slight town read on yamato, however he seems to be acting differently as opposed to last game. Probably because he wants to improve like me, but you never know.

On December 05 2012 01:05 Oatsmaster wrote:
Im leaning town on CC, he seems his normal logical self.
Im null on Axle, his questions are odd but maybe thats just his playstyle.
Im leaning slightly scum on yamato and kickstart
Kickstart goes into a discussion on whether lynching lurkers is good which is unnecessary at the start of the game because who knows, we might not have lurkers. Then he jokes around for a while and suddenly FoS yamato on badgering Axle. Like what kind of reasoning is that?
Yamato

+ Show Spoiler +
he only questioned axle then Unvoted him for unclear reasons..

On December 05 2012 10:56 AxleGreaser wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

real soon now i will present a case that I believe solves the game

it solves the game in the sense that it solves it for my win condition.

In my win condition everybody who is on my team wins.

btw that would be you, as in anyone and everyone who read this post.

-----

I have strong technical hunch that some people cant as sometimes when
I open multiple windows here the game looks different.
I have not tried to verify that so I could be wrong.

If thats wrong or you don't understand just ignore it.

On December 05 2012 11:35 Kickstart wrote:
Yep, I officially don't give a shit about this game at this point unless I see something that really changes my mind. Most everyone has gone full retard mode.

On December 05 2012 11:43 Kickstart wrote:
And I am just going to ignore arnarion all together because he is being a dickhead and because his case is stupid. I doubt anyone who reads his case then looks over my actual post will agree with a word he said.

On December 05 2012 11:51 Oatsmaster wrote:
CC, context for the Lol Im town,

Axle asked me what I would do pretending that I am town, after he asked me what I would do if I was scum.

the LOL I'm town wasn't necessary, could have just rolled with it. Seemed weird to me.

And about my way of playing? If that is scummy to you then ok, each to his own.

CC, how many times have you been like,
Ok he is not that suspicious, then when you read his filter, it has some scummy stuff and not much town stuff.
I did this for Clarity in XXX actually, I had a town read, I thought Djo was scum but when I read his filter, I was astounded at the slight scumtells.

Sometimes. But certainly not this early and when I was there for it.

If it is your opinion on why the kickstart case is bad then so be it, I cant change that.

On December 05 2012 11:59 Oatsmaster wrote:


Its early game, who would be suspicous of anyone?
You didnt go after the first timers because there is too little to go off of....

This looks so weird kickstart.

Also, so now what do you think yamato is? Scum or Town?

On December 05 2012 12:05 Oatsmaster wrote:
So CC, you start the game by thinking everyone is scum?

On December 05 2012 14:20 jidolboy wrote:
##Vote: Oatsmaster

On December 04 2012 16:03 Oatsmaster wrote:
Did you read XXX?
If you didnt go read it, Djo kinda acts like Rad where he jumps on a joke but Djo is town
i think that its a null read.
Also I thought you were serious until you posted jk jk.
Scumbag.

On December 05 2012 12:06 Rad wrote:


@CC

I thought your case was half good. I'm kinda curious about the flip on yamato (not sure if I believe his explanation or not), and the idea of thinking of everyone as town and searching for scum is sooo... I dunno, "dreamy"? Like, really? He does that? I agree with you in that I'm paranoid as fuck as town and everyone is scum to me (though I feel I'm getting a bit better at my reads TBH).

Claiming he's town - eh, everyone does that. Null.

On his Kickstart case - ehh, I took it as a pressure move, and I wanted to see more out of kickstart anyway so I thought it was a good move. I've seen debears throw out terrible cases (for example, against me in my first newbie) that got me to talk a lot.

I'll be honest, oats feels unreadable from a meta standpoint. I watched him last game, thought he was scum until people told me otherwise. Feels very similar this game. I have to decide what I think about that "slip" you caught cause it's the major non-meta point that just doesn't make sense to me.

Regarding everything else that's going on, need to read through arn's case, and can't wait for axle to make sense because I honestly believe he's newbie town that will probably have some mind blowing read if he can tell us in english.

On December 05 2012 14:53 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok let me explain my reasoning.
Why wouldnt you have strong reads by the end of cycle 1? Because you cant think of 1? I dont know.

Ok lets say like last game, the end of day 1 people didnt know shit and we lynched a lurker. Which was town.
So I learnt that we should take more effort in finding scum instead of letting them just slide by. So that the day 1 lynch was not a coinflip.
I have no idea what he learnt but I dont see how he learnt that,
Lynching lurkers on day 1 is a viable plan.

On December 04 2012 10:41 Kickstart wrote:
Got home from school early hurray.

This will be my third game, my first game was Mario Mini Mafia where we won as town, my second game was Newbie Mini Mafia XXXI where I lost as scum. On lurker lynch policy I am of the opinion you lynch top scum reads, that is the goal of the game after all. If someone lurking seriously becomes an issue then they can be dealt with at the adequate time.

On December 05 2012 19:03 Sylencia wrote:
So pretty much at the moment, while catching up with all this drama that has happened in the past 5 or so hours, I've really become a lot more confused and a lot less sure who is actually scum and who is not.

Axle: Originally, I thought his acts of 'treat me nicely, I'm new' were actually quite suspicious, followed by really confusing posts which initially I believed were just posts to clog up the conversation and keep things disjointed. However, seems like as time goes on I understand what Axle is talking about less and less and now I don't even read the posts because it actually hurts my brain to try and understand the concepts he is talking about. Based off the responses you guys make to what he says, seems to be hard on you too. Basically, if I had no better read, I'd be picking Axle simply because I don't want to have to deal with working with an incomprehensible teammate.

Jidolboy: From what I have seen, all that has happened from him are a few answers and then a sudden vote. If I was to guess the way this game was going to go down, it would have the one person who is more active do the swaying, while the other lurks a bit more. As far as I can tell, Jidol has been the biggest lurker in the game so far, and then makes no effort in justifying what he has said. However, does that mean he's piggybacking onto CC, making him scum (assuming that Jidol is too)? Possibly, but probably not, if they were both scum, they wouldn't be picking out Oats I think, and instead piggyback onto the Kick vote.

Kick: This afternoon, I said that Kick is a townie because of his obnoxious behaviour. Rad and Oats continue the attack, and bring up rather relevant points, most of which I didn't consider (and also some points due to a past game which I didn't observe). However, at this point in time, I still believe that Kick is a townie, and so at this point in time I will not be voting for him.

yamato: More active than jidol, but still seems like lurking, and goes with the easy way out by voting Axle. Also noticed the disappearance after heat being applied on him but whether or not that's due to time zone, I'm not sure.

Now, between Rad and Oats, I feel like one is supporting the other, but at the same time, I also feel like one of them is doing so with the intention of swaying the other into believing they are on the same team. This round, I feel like I have to be voting for one or the other here. (Also, while I think that one or the other is scum, I do not think that both would be scum. They stand out far too much and have already essentially said "We are together in this fight", and that'd be some sick psychological tactics or some really newbie play if they were to be double scum)

In this case, I will be voting for Oats for two reasons: No lynch doesn't help us get any information. Worst case scenario means if we pick all townies to be lynched, we lose at the same rate as if we didn't lynch Day 1.

Between the two, Oats feels a lot more scummy to me. The main point in the end is the suspicion on yamato, followed by the 'scum read' on yamato, followed by a complete drop of the case against him, and then a complete dodge on answering why yamato was even suspected by him in the first place. Also, to me it seems like the case made when explaining why there was a vote for kickstart in the first place could also be applied to him.
1. At the time, yamato was still a suspect, so claims possible read
2. Notices no support for yamato's suspicion, backs out, and goes straight for Kickstart.

Naturally, I could be completely off track here, but I feel like the person who I should vote is for Oats.

##Vote Oatsmaster

On December 04 2012 19:08 Sylencia wrote:
Alright, so I've come back from work, find that everyone is at each other's throats already... What happened to a nice friendly atmosphere? Anyways, from what I can tell, it really does feel like one of the three super active members in this group so far are scum, though which one I haven't been able to pinpoint yet. I feel like they've actually done a good job in causing a lot of doubt and in-fighting between the members, but I feel like what Kickstart has said made a lot of sense, and I've definitely taken into account some of the points made there.

I don't want to reveal which of the members I feel most suspicious of yet, though I do have a gut feeling about it, and as for the 2nd bad guy, this is pure speculation, but I do feel like they are lurking in the shadows a bit, since there's so much going on already, it'd be the perfect time to just sit back a bit and let the townies destroy themselves.

On December 04 2012 19:25 Sylencia wrote:


This one?

I feel like one of the major things that differentiate newbie play with scum play is the explanation that comes behind an accusation. I feel that newer players, when accusing others of being scum, will have a lot weaker arguments that are not particularly well thought out. Reasoning would mainly be either lack of experience, or just going on gut feeling that what someone has said in the past seems suspicious.

On the other hand, being scum means that you have to have a certain amount of thought behind what you say, as making a contradictory or just a random off-the-cuff statement could shine a light of suspicion on them, which obviously they want to avoid.

If a new player is scum, I also found from my real life experience from the game, they do prefer to wait for others to make motions against someone before being sheeping behind them and just agreeing with what others have said. This may not be true all the time, as a lot of new players do get warned about being too obvious about it, but it can happen when they cannot formulate their own attack in time.

On December 05 2012 12:08 Sylencia wrote:


Sure thing, I wasn't planning on holding back for much longer, since I just wanted to get a few more posts in the thread before seeing if anything useful came from it. However, I'm going to have to make a longer post later since my lunch hour is about done and I only just managed to catch up with the thread.

For now, all I want to say is that I'm pretty sure Kickstart is with the town here. Firstly, he brings up good, valid points with his posts, there's justification behind what he says and he also has an attitude. This attitude that he is bringing into the game doesn't help him whatsoever, and really only promotes him to be voted. Why would you bring so much negative attention to yourself when you want others to feel like you should still hang around?

As I said before, more later but I am only going to be able to lurk around for the next 5 or so hours.

On December 06 2012 08:20 Arnarnion wrote:
How's is voting for my top scum read not giving a fuck about who is lynched? I give a fuck, I just I'm not sure you have the right guy and I'm pretty sure that Sylencia has exhibited some scummy behavior. That being said, since you guys seem set on lynching Oats above anyone else and I don't like the idea of a no lynch, I will ##Unvote and ##Vote: Oatsmaster, since I don't have a strong enough town read on him to adamantly say don't lynch him. I just hope this is worth it. I still think there should be more attention on the sheeping lurkers, though.

On December 06 2012 09:40 yamato77 wrote:
Oats up to his old town claim when voted for trick. Oh wait, he was town.

Kick is scummiest read in the game so far but I am not at home to make a real case at the moment.

On December 06 2012 09:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
Seriously guys?
Yamato has done some scummy stuff but I dont think its as much as kickstart.
SCUM DOESNT WANT TO LYNCH A NAMED VT.

On December 06 2012 10:21 yamato77 wrote:
Eh I could care less who thinks I'm scum this game. Doesn't really matter as long as town actually wins.

My opinion of Oats was colored by my opinion of Kick, which was negative. I'm not going to make excuses for being.suspicious of someone like Kick.

I think the other scum probably did bus Oats. I think Oats knew he was caught and told his buddy to vote for him.

Arn, syl, jidol, or CC. CC I have a null read. Arn a town read. Jidol and syl both scummy lurkers IMO. Probably one of those two.

On December 06 2012 10:37 Kickstart wrote:
LOL just read the flavor text.

Oats: "I am a fireman"
Prom: "then why is there no fireman hat"


roflrofl

On December 06 2012 12:02 yamato77 wrote:
If you get too annoying with your "tunnel" of me I'm liable to ignore you. Just a heads up.

On December 06 2012 12:31 yamato77 wrote:
Like I said before my opinion of Oats at the time I said those things was positive because he was pressuring a player I thought was suspicious. In hindsight, I see how he was just scum trolling the thread. I am apparently highly susceptible to this.

On December 06 2012 12:34 yamato77 wrote:
Also, I used OMGUS as a term to describe a reaction to an unfavorable read. I think you've done a good job making people see you as town this game so me not seeing you town could have caused your reaction.

On December 06 2012 14:18 AxleGreaser wrote:
I have question.

If I vote do people want to see the argument or just the vote?

On December 05 2012 03:02 yamato77 wrote:
Ok, so you agree that Oats could conceivably find kick suspicious? Then you are basically only disagreeing with his method of applying pressure which is a stylistic choice. Why criticise Oats for making a town favored play if you think it might actually catch scum?

Unless, that is, you know kick isn't scum.

On December 05 2012 01:33 yamato77 wrote:
Oats I don't understand how you say you have a scum read on me and then attack kick for the same read.

On December 07 2012 06:15 yamato77 wrote:
Also, nice opportunistic timing on posting that. Wait until kick posts his suspicion of me and then throw some weak WIFOM association bullshit on top of it.

On December 07 2012 07:23 Rad wrote:
Sorry I have to be a lurker during the day guys, I have to work =/ I'm much more active at night. Posting a lot during the day (when I'm working) in past games made me wonder if I should even play this game at all (and is why I skipped last newbie), so I'm really forcing myself to not get too drawn into it until I'm done working for the day.

Please take note though that yamato and I are most suspicious right now because we've put ourselves out there for town scrutiny. Had either of us lurked and throw out our opinions sparingly and jumped on the oats train, we'd be in the same position as the other lurkers. Both of us, instead, interacted, made our thoughts known, and stuck to them.

Take that however you will, but I'm getting an angry townie feel from yamato, the same one as your last game. He's given that same exact vibe for most of this game. I think it's especially interesting that he's not convinced in town CC. Talk about picking the hardest target to throw suspicion on...