EPTObviously, I'm busy atm etc. etc., so I might not post regularly etc. etc.
Hero Mini Mafia
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Obviously, I'm busy atm etc. etc., so I might not post regularly etc. etc. | ||
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The last post I liked most was from Bluelightz. I also want to remind you of Clarity_nl trying to discuss policy as a first step after thrawns slip. That caught my eye. Posting more soon. | ||
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Thrawn posting that his post has a purpose. www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17192357 VE defending thrawn based on meta, and that it's gotta be a joke. So apparently, VE either didn't read thrawns posts, or he believes that the purpose thrawn speaks about is that of making a joke. VE responded to a question from jay with this post. | ||
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Clarity, may I know why you are so disinterested in thrawns claim? You were the first to point out his mistake and never gave a fuck about it. I don't feel like I can just let this matter go. Thrawn could have talked about it as a joke, instead he acts as if he did it on purpose. He's probably just realized that he's made a big mistake, and further talking about him will harm him no matter what. | ||
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What motivations would he have to defend him if he doesn't even grasp thrawns own point of view? He might aswell have not read his posts, not showing any interest in scumhunting with that trail available. I might also remind you that VE has been present since 9:44, but only posts as answer to jay at around 10:23. He's shown lack of interest in the matter from start. My conclusion?Maybe scummy, maybe sloppy. You want me to go further than this?We've got enough time to vote. If I had to do it now it would be thrawn. Fakeclaiming as joke is a pretty shitty move. | ||
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/k9gNk.png) That reminds me that you've pressured thrawn a little at 10:18, marv, but quickly lost interest. So what's your opinion on him? | ||
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If he was a scum fakeclaiming, believing that millers are self-aware, he would take the risk of facing a counterclaim. As others mentioned, he's drawn attention with that. But identifying scum with stereotypes isn't exactly the way. Why wouldn't scum be able to draw attention and get away with it? He would have made following mistakes: 1. Overlooked the rule about self-awareness. Obvious. 2. Forgotten to consider another miller, under the premise that he really made mistake 1. I don't believe it was a joke though, rather some sort of strategy. Maybe he would have brought these points up by himself at some point, betting on town not believing that he would do such mistakes. | ||
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Brb in one or more hours. | ||
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##Vote jaybrundage On December 11 2012 04:23 Tunkeg wrote: Thrawn's "claim" is a joke claim. He did it in the very beginning, and quickly and without concern went back on it. I didn't like his response when called out on it. But when he in the end explained why he did as he did, it was an ok (no more, no less) explanation. So you are okay with this post? On December 10 2012 09:57 thrawn2112 wrote: any answer I could possibly give would just betray the actual purpose behind that post, making whatever I hoped to accomplish with that post no longer possible To me it looks like you didn't study the matter enough. This explanation sucks hard. He's basically leaving the defense of himself to everybody else. He never said explicitly that he joked, he only said explicitly that he had intentions, fuck knows which. That being said, I suggest you go back and read the stuff before you make the same mistake I made with clarity. | ||
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Holy shit, he even digs through his own meta to justify his "Ohmahgawdidontwannabandwagon". Meanwhile, he does exactly that, he catches up some sentiment in town and rides it when he feels it's strong enough. Check the filter. Until his "hit the bed" post, upon which he voted for me, he never updated his stance on thrawn, he never got the response he's been expecting from him. In theory, jay should have commented on my posts about thrawn, if not even supported them. But when he has to defend himself, he posts all sorts of shit. When he has to vote for someone, he never does it on his own initiative. Additionally, he tries to moderate other people. Another thing by jay in his last post: Even when thrawn said his self it was just a joke Same shit as with Tunkeg. He says that thrawn himself said it was a joke. Bullshit. Find the line where he says that. They both didn't even read. But unlike Tunkeg, Jay felt that thrawn was a liar and scum, and voted for him when others did. | ||
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If you asked me to dig up my meta for you, I'll gently tell you to gtfo and read it for yourself, it's out there. However, I don't even want to get lost into details, I don't trust his style and that's all. I don't feel like lynching Tunkeg for one post. To me it looks like he's lazy. If he doesn't post more until the end of day 1 I'll think about changing opinion. | ||
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I didn't like Tunkegs response, he could have spent time posting more against others instead of reacting to my post with one line. I'd join you in a Tunkeg vote, not in for Z-Boson though. | ||
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Just saw Bosons post, reading and updating opinion. | ||
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 .I still don't like your defensive style jaybro. Nothing personal. Meanwhile, you can discuss how weird it is that I'm willing to lynch Tunkeg after his second post, Clarity looks willing to help in that, he's being like, my personal journalist. | ||
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You raise some good points. I'd say your main argument is that he identifies that early vote by debears as a policy vote, but still asks about other motivations. Then he drops from debears, goes for thrawn, the guy he leaned town on, just to switch to jay for suspecting thrawn. The same guy he voted for just before. Yeah, I think he's scummy for these moves. | ||
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His first post was made to fit in in some way, then he apparently spent hours lurking only to come out again when called out from me. Don't act as if I changed my mind out of nothing. I changed it cause of his post. Just cause clarity highlights one small part of it (the one where I express my willingness to vote) doesn't mean you shouldn't read the rest of it ,where I say that I didn't like Tunkegs response. | ||
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What do you think of jay and Djodref? Don't you think they are scummy? | ||
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Tunkeg, tell us what's so scummy about the two players pls. Boson, can you give us another useful post?Just like that yo. | ||
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Be nice and question him thoroughly, too, I'll go make a sammich. | ||
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I've switched my vote to Tunkeg. Thanks to WBG for the meta analysis, the other reasons are pretty obvious. With this I'll have some time to think a little more about jay. What got me was his initial sheeping behavior regarding 1. thrawn and 2. me (after VE wrote the case). That combined with his very defensive activity as opposed to the scumhunting one. Anyway, I might post something more detailed later. I'd also like to lynch grush early, possibly not today. I can't stand having him in lategame. While this might look like a policy, I lost the previous game by lynching another guy instead of him, simply cause the other guy was more readable. You'll always find a little suspicious something in readable players, and grush isn't readable. | ||
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So basically, the case on him seems to be built on "the change of tone in his post". That post with changed tone dabears mentioned was written one day after the last ones, so it's likely that he's writing like that cause he's not heated up like the day before. That day, he finished into an OMGUS fight with dabears, where they basically both vote for each other cause they argue about having to vote for the people you lean scum on. And this is where the matter stinks. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=9#171 This is dabeers post about Adam. OH SHIT HE'S SUSPICIOUS CAUSE HE'S NOT VOTING FOR THRAWN. Look at the post, look at the voting thread, look at the reactions. Adam voted before debears upon being accused by him of not voting thrawn, meanwhile, dabears accused Adam of something he himself did. Only clarity so far has expressed criticism of this case against Adam, now I will, too. 1.The case is shit 2.The case is shit 3.The case is shit Being this a shit case accepted by many people, I think there's scum trying to sheep in it. | ||
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On December 10 2012 12:27 jaybrundage wrote: I swear to god if thrawn doesnt explain him self. Hes the most anti town player i have seen in a while. Frustrating really. I am only hesitant to vote him because i dont like early bandwagons in general. It hurts the conversation and shit to read if we all are voting the same person. Regardless of how unlogical his claims maybe (for town). Thrawn can you please drop your sharade and just attempt to explain your reasoning. Or as i said before your gonna get lynched It's also the post that gets jaybrundage so many votes. If you look at the timing of this post, jaybrundage tries hard to contribute here. But he doesn't want to vote cause he'd be looking like he's bandwagoning (THRAWN had 3 votes on him at the time of this post). He probably also saw that two people were arguing over not-happened votes during questionings, so he also tried hard to justify himself for not voting thrawn. This post in general looks so constructed that it hurts. Seriously, I'd even vote for jay before Tunkeg. What do you think? | ||
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Adam got accused by dabears of not voting the guy he was questioning. Meanwhile, dabears didn't vote Adam while accusing him of this, thus making himself guilty of the same "mistake". Adam notices it, and 1. votes for him since it's what he wanted 2. Says it's suspicious that dabears himself didn't vote for Adam. | ||
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On December 11 2012 22:06 Bluelightz wrote: Is voting necessary when one has suspicions on someone? No. It's up to them when they vote. By saying that you're actually defending Adam against dabears first accusations. Dunno if you even realize that. | ||
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And I don't care if Adam is voting for me as long as I believe him to be town. What kind of bad question is that. Why are you thinking from a scum point of view? On December 11 2012 22:10 Bluelightz wrote: I'm defending dabears first accusation. On December 10 2012 11:43 debears wrote: @Djo The person that I don't like so far is adam. I would arguably say he has been just as, if not more, aggressive with you on thrawn. Yet, he hasn't voted him. He implied heavily that thrawn was scum, yet doesn't think he's scummy when asked directly. Furthermore, he keeps hard questioning thrawn on a response that thrawn basically said he wouldn't say (even though it seems to me that he was joking) even though he said he doesn't think thrawn is scum. His reaction is feeling very forced The first bolded part is what dabears himself does. The second is word twisting of Adam saying: "If I wanted to call you scummy I would have" into "I don't think he's scummy." And I don't see any scum motivation in hard questioning thrawn. He acted not according to his meta, and that's what made Adam so suspicious of him. How is that scummy??? Go read, Bluelightz mate. I hope you saw the part where Debears said Adam is suspicious for not voting now. | ||
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Marv, why do you have a townread on jay? | ||
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That's cause I didn't read the thread properly and thus made shit accusations. I thought you'd be a little more up to date. Or are you just publicly trying to find reasons to drop your vote from me? | ||
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Well, you made a case against me, but didn't vote for me. Sup Adam? | ||
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On December 11 2012 22:13 debears wrote: Vivax, why are you defending someone who has a vote on you? | ||
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While I think debears case against Adam is bad, I don't like his entrance right now. It doesn't look like he's been properly scumhunting lately, just some more half assed questions and statements. Thanks for saying you lean town on me though. ADAM, who are you gonna vote for if you had to? | ||
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Also, I would really enjoy if people put huge quotations into spoilers, it helps in keeping the thread readable. | ||
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To be honest, I think Z-Boson is focusing on the wrong guy and should rather look around some more. What I'd rather expect from mafia is rather low activity, coupled with a few, sometimes huge posts going along with town sentiment. This is obviously a stereotype, but it's also the easiest and safest way to play scum. Anyway, I think Bluelightz fits very well into this stereotype. Yes, I think he behaves in a scummy way, but I guess noone's in for lynching him? Count me in for either him, Tunkeg, jay or grush, cause it's grush. | ||
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Scummies are more likely to be inconsistent than townies [citation needed] | ||
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Instead, tell us about your reads. Who is scum and who is town in your opinion? | ||
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Let's get jay cmon, just cause he's out of attention doesn't mean he didn't act scumm.y | ||
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##Vote Bluelightz | ||
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It shatters my fragile heart when kids go emo on me. I might take another look at it if you take another look at BL. | ||
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1. It's not because he posted reads. It's how he posted reads. 2. BL has been able to blend in quite well so far, lately he's only been contributing when asked. 3. You think scum sheeps cases looking bad?So they can explain why they support them with their own reasonings? BUT HEY, WTF IS THIS: Also, why would a town BL consolidate and sheep onto someone probably getting lynched? A Freudian misspelling?A scumslip?A stupid mistake?A town BL? Is there maybe another reason why you only suspected Adam for questioning thrawn while djodref was doing the same in the beginning? | ||
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You're most likely getting your Adam lynch done, why the fuck are you so concerned with two votes on BL? | ||
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If we rally enough people for BL though, then you'Ll have to wait for Adam. | ||
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You mostly talk about everyone else but have your vote on Adam. What do you think of Tunkegs presumed last post? | ||
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The initial case against Adam was pretty bad, but his latest activity isn't exactly townie, since he's not been doing anything useful nor defending himself much. He's the last option for me. | ||
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On December 12 2012 06:29 Tunkeg wrote: Don't worry I am not pissed at anyone, I just don't mind getting lynched all that much. I have given you my reads, and me as flipped town gives strenght to my arguements. Dude, that's a really bad attitude. You have 1000 ways to strengthen your arguments other than to accept a mislynch just like that. And even if everybody follows your arguments after that, which is as unlikely as it was before, you still might be super wrong about them, so it also shows you are pretty cocky about your opinion. (Or maybe you're scum who has succeeded in fooling us all) Anyway, 6 votes on Adam so far, count me in for the last 3. I like what grush had to say in this one. Inbefore OMG HE'S BANDWAGONING. ##Unvote ##Vote Adam | ||
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On December 12 2012 07:30 debears wrote: Woah 666 post Yeah I was thinking about doing something special for it but forgot about it. Well, time to move on :>. @ thrawn http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=37#730 | ||
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Debears, please post that video if he flips green aswell :d. | ||
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Check my filter, there's a lonely question waiting for your shiny presence. | ||
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On December 12 2012 08:03 marvellosity wrote: naw i feel terrible about it Adam not ok for a lynch? On December 12 2012 02:04 marvellosity wrote: The number of people 'uncomfortable' or whatever word you want to use about Adam's lynch makes me feel quite good about it at the moment. Adam ok cause of others. From interaction with bugs, meant somewhat as defense since Adam might prove useful: Marv @ 00:10; 12/12/12: Take a gander at Whose Line where Adam caught two scum in the first cycle or so Adam somewhat not ok? On December 11 2012 11:11 marvellosity wrote: I like it. I have very little else to add other than I agree that it makes no sense that he was talking to you that way when you were his scumread. I'd understand it more if this was the start of the interactions, but it's been going on a while. Tunkeg has done jack shit to make me think he's town which I love to lynch for on Day 1, but Adam has betrayed a scum mentality right there. ##Unvote ##Vote: Adamsomenumbers The voting moment. This is quite important, marv agrees with debears about something pretty generic. Calling marv out for this here would give him plenty of versions of "that he was talking to you that way" to offer. Anyway, you'll see how this is weird cause of the last quotation, especially that he agrees with debears with no problems. On December 11 2012 06:13 marvellosity wrote: The thing I didn't like about Adam was that I had to press him to turn his commentary into a read on debears. Other than that he's actually posted a little more already than I was expecting him to, so meh. I'm slightly something on Adam but I'm not sure what yet :p Can I interest you fine people in a scum lynch, a la Tunkeg? Is there anyone out there who actually gets good vibes from how he came into the thread? He keeps a neutral stance on Adam, then asks for opionions about Tunkeg. + Show Spoiler + On December 11 2012 02:51 marvellosity wrote: The problem as I see it is that you're doing what you're accusing Adam of doing. Adam is questioning thrawn on his millershit or whatever. But he's not calling him scum or voting him, right? Now this might not be a "case" as you would call one, but then what is it? You don't like his questioning, you don't like his lack of vote, you don't like that he didn't call him scummy, you felt his reaction was forced. All this in itself implies that he is either scum or scummy (if you say the two are the same...) and yet at the time you weren't voting him either. Meh, I've used the same argument to defend Adam against debears, yet marv first neglected it, then basically accepted it by voting for him that early. What I don't like is how he first ignores this argument, then starts pulling out his own arguments, which are all very fluffy in my opinion. Anyway, the argument which implicitly made marv change opinion about debears case (which he said wasn't a real case lol) was this: + Show Spoiler + On December 11 2012 02:42 debears wrote: Yeah.....I'm sorry marv that I don't follow up my extensive, 4 sentence cases with no quotes that are a response to a question with a vote This reaction is something that I don't see a townie mindset 1) Questioning someone and mentioning twice that they're playing way different from their town play. Then, saying that you don't think they are scum (ie scummy) 2) Taking someone else's posts out of context when he mentions you 3) Voting for said person when he didn't make a "case" against you because he didn't follow up his "case" with a vote So much for a little Marv & Adam summary to give some food for thought. Also, if Adam flips town, I'd like to see debears dead. Inbefore marv jumps out and calls me dumb etc., well at least that's something. | ||
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I'd be willing to vote for jay over Adam. In the end, if 9 people say the same, we can switch (not gonna happen tho cause many are afk i believe) | ||
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Stop talking about voteswings. | ||
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Time for some bunga bunga with Adam. | ||
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Yours faithfully, Vivax | ||
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I think it's one of the few things which have low probability of being subject to scum reverse-psychology. They fear the interaction analysis from flips. I'd rather look at people who vote for Adam last calling him scummy rather than innocent. Like the guy who's playing as replacement. Or people trying to divert attention from Adam in other ways. Or people ignoring him. I admit I didn't believe Adam to be scum, but I promised I would get any vote done as long as it ended in a lynch. I'm at page 51 while writing this (since I don't want to forget my thoughts while reading on) | ||
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Depends on how ballsy scum plays.I sure didn't defend my sucmbuddies in my last scumgame. Anyway, I found a massive scumslip by WBG: + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2012 18:33 wherebugsgo wrote: Being good at something doesn't mean it takes effort. I'm not even good at scum anyway. | ||
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On a more serious note, I will look at you more thoroughly when I'm back in 2 hours. Although I will add to your defense that Bluelightz' post regarding you really sucks, it's like he felt forced to give an opinion while in truth he had no fucking clue what to think about you. | ||
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Get in here! | ||
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You're looking for differences in what he said between a game and another. I'll tell you something, there's a 99 % chance that you'll find an inconsistency about EVERYONE in this thread if you just dig enough. Yes, go find some about me instead. Now don't get me wrong, I like your efforts at scumhunting, I just think that your last argument is pretty shit and shows that you're cramped in trying to find every little thing to throw at bugs. You're probably gonna ask: "Well, Vivax, why the hell do you have a townread on him?". I don't have one yet, but it would also help your cause if you stopped writing weak-ass posts managing to make them that big when all you have to point out is an inconsistency between a sentence in a game and a sentence in this one, which I don't think is very reliable. Maybe you're just trying to save your ass since Munk-E played so badly and are desperately trying to look like you're contributing, explaining all the drama about the stuff. Chill down mate, a day are two days of time to get a good vote rolling. | ||
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Even worse than policy discussion. | ||
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On December 13 2012 06:25 Vivax wrote: JAAAAAY, do you think Bugs would go so far to defend other scum? (Note I'm not implying that I think he's scum yet) Get in here! | ||
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I'm not quoting shit, I'm asking a partial opinion on bugs | ||
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On December 13 2012 07:25 jaybrundage wrote: Im not gonna answer you if you refuse to quote and show me what your talking about. It's ok, you're gonna get it in the butt tomorrow for doing this. | ||
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If you wonder about weird letters, it's cause I accidentally TLPDized + Show Spoiler + On December 11 2012 04:43 jaybrundage wrote: I didnt mean you specifically but some people in TL MaFia do. I Actually am starting to lean more neutral on Thrawn. In my early mind set I just couldnt see someone misclaiming as a joke, or Risk getting them selves lynched. IM a little worried about our lurkers. And i would prefer to see more posts out of ZBoston. Specifically ZBoston What do you think about Claritys case on me and some people soft defending me. Also MunkE has had like 3 posts since his /in and every single ONE of them is mostly about WBG statistic. Do WE Really have to nitpick over something like that. WBG was mostly trying to bait Palmar out. Lets hear your thoughts on some cases On Vivax its odd. He seems Really interested in going after Thrawns claim and saying that Ve defended it as a joke. When its not a joke. Even when thrawn SaiD his self it was just a joke. That he stubbornly. Refused to explain to generate discussion. I think he is concentrating on thrawns little joke to much to the exclusion of everything else. I can see him being scum. ##Vote Vivax (Because some people get SOOOOO antsy if you dont follow your argument with your vote.) He'S made this post after VE voted for me, Z-Boson expressed his suspicion against me, and I just made the mistake to use the same argument as Clarity to Actually realize that thrawn was unlikely to be scum. A good moment for scum to come in and try to get some momentum going, not to mention he doesn't care a little bit about questioning me or giving ONE good Motive as long as he can place his vote. When I switch my vote to Tunkeg, he feels satisfied with pointing it out and leaving it at that. + Show Spoiler + On December 11 2012 07:49 jaybrundage wrote: Tunkeg your Here no ReasoN to lurk. Its Bad for town. @Z-Boston Your case on Djodref is pretty good. He has a lack of scum hunting going back and forth with out any good reasons. I would also like to see from our MunkE and adam hasnt been Here for a while. Also I would like to see WBG and VE'S thoughts on Djodref and Z-Bostons case What about his fucking vote on me? Did he show any interest in gaining some information by himself at this Point? Does he look like he'S interested in a particular person? Yeah, the case on Djodref is pretty good, still no need to pursue it, cause there'S Adam getting lynched, nontheless he'll find djodref scummy again once Adam is DeaD (/has been bussed). + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2012 08:11 jaybrundage wrote: Hm I think BL would of been a good lynch, IM leaning town on thrawn. Adam honeslty IM not sure on but I dont WanT a no lynch. ##Vote Adam Well, I can hardly use the vote as Only argument against jay, other than that it'S a throwing around of stuff that'S again not Really useful. BUT, BUT. Jay was the fourth last to vote for Adam. And guess What Adam did immediately after? On December 12 2012 09:07 Adam4167 wrote: ##Vote jaybrundage Adam voted for jay immediately before djodref, and a scum djodref would have to be dumb as hell to do the same as his scumbuddy immediately after, he'd rather go for the bus at that Point, so I'M saying DJODREF iS TOWN, FUCK YOU ALL...altough there might be WIFOM involved Here. I still feel pretty sure about it. Anyway, back to jay: Why the fuck would Adam vote for jay when he has 0 votes on him? Let'S get back to Adam'S post, Which I'M surprised nobody analyzed. !!!!!!! + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2012 09:07 Adam4167 wrote: Alright, seeing as I am the leading vote getter today, Ill get some reads out for you guys so my death isn't a Complete waste. Obvious town to me: Palmar, Clarity, dabears, Marv, Thrawn and Vivax. Jaybrundage Jay is lurky when he plays scum, and right now he'S fitting the bill. In Arkham City I fell Into the Trap of thinking that he was too scummy to be scum, and largely ignored him for the entire Game until he obviously fakeclaimed and outed himself. This Game he looks mostly the same Here, Ultra lurky, and non-contributive. He'S jumped onto my wagon with the ReasoN of " Id rather lynch bluelightz, but I don't WanT a no lynch". Probably scum. Bluelightz Bluelightz is Another ONE that Ultra lurks when he is scum. He was literally afraid to post in Student MaFia after replacing in and just Sat around in the scum QT. His play in Aperture mafa as scum was similar to his play this Game, he throws out a couple of reads and then lurks until someone takes an interest in him. Probably scum. WBG He looks to be bending his reads to please palmar, Which is Never a good sign from someone as headstrong as WBG. Look at his attitude towards myself, early Game he has no problem with my gameplay, after declaring nobody in the thread looks suspicious and turning his attention towards the lurkers. Then, palmar posts his video and I become a suspect, he adds me to his list of scum targets, but with flimsy reasoning and 'meta' but would still rather PuSh other people. Probably scum. Tunkeg Tunkeg is an interesting ONE. His emo routine after being questioned is not What I would consider 'townie', but his list of reads is at least somewhat helpful and Actually looks somewhat similar to mine. I'd keep him aLive for now, but keep an eye on him, as he so happily points out, WE have no idea What to expect from his scum play. Mostly null, make him work to show his alignment. VisceraEyes VE has mostly lurked today and Really hasn't put much Into this Game. He'S capable of this as either town or scum. He seems pretty content to sheep most of Palmars reads this Game, something I wouldn't expect from him but I do like his case on jaybrundage. Mostly null, some SMall contributions. Djodref Djodref'S biggest scum tell from Mario MaFia was that he did absolutely no scum hunting and Sat around setup speculating even at LYLO. He'S pushed some cases this Game, Which I consider points in his favour, but he'S also back flipped his read on me as soon as Palmar mentioned both of us in his video. He'S spent a majority of day 1 defending himself from Bad cases, and I think he'S capable of being a good contributing townie, leaning town on Djodref. Anyone else that I haven't got to either wasn't memorable or isn't putting in enough EffOrt. ##Vote Jaybrundage The First thing WE Notice about Adams post is that he townreads players most of us probably consider(ed) to be town anyway. This was his last attempt to save his asS, and also a good attempt to discredit them if he gets killed. I read most of them as town with exception of marv, WhO I have a null read on. The First of his three scum players have 3 things in common: They lurk a lot, and they are very probably scum. Since by the time I'M writing this I saw that BUGS has been shot by Clarity, whom I gladly call a raging dumbass for not listening to me, WE can exclude him from the ones Really being scum. Anyway, I'M leaving some more of Adams analysis to other guys, I just wanna say that I believe his scum players to Really be scum players, maybe ONE of those he didn't mention (Z-Boson and Munk-E) too. On December 12 2012 18:22 jaybrundage wrote: Glad WE got an enagaged player to replace in for Munk-E. I'M still leaning scum on Djodref. But ill have to reread Vivax havent giving up much thought recently. I also can see bugs being scum. Also makes Sense if the Game is balanced. That scum would get ONE Vet. Its to Bad Bugs is to distracted to give this Game his all tho, well maybe not so Bad for town :3 So, after saying he finds Djodref scummy, still voting for Adam, just to speak about the oh so scummy Djodref and later posting Another Bad case against him cause Djodref tried to save Adam last minute. Well, Clarity and I did that, too, indirectly, WE just didn't vote for Adam. And while the horde posts against bugs, he catches the occasion to express his approval of bugs' scumminess. Not to mention that he refused to Answer my initially friendly questions regarding bugs. Which I asked CAUSE: BUGS WAS THE First TO DEFEND JAY AGAINST THE EARLY BANDWAGON AGAINST HIM. How the fuck would you believe someone WhO defends you so early to be scum when you know you're town? | ||
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Anyway, Bugs' initial play looked so damn townie to me I didn't even bother reading on. You looked pretty pro-town there, I'll give you a props for that. | ||
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Just kidding, but please, let's really get jay. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + Just kidding, wtf is going on with this Bluelightz, noone is even drawing conclusions from what happened, or my post against jay. | ||
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Or voting for people without giving a damn about them afterwards. | ||
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I just think that jay is a more slippery target to get a hold of and I'd like getting done with him early. Also who wouldn't want to get him lynched first after writing such a load about it. I'll also scan VE tomorrow. Gnight. | ||
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Before going to bed I remembered that someone asked the Jailer to protect Palmar earlier, does anyone remember who it was? | ||
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Clarity, may I ask why you didn't shoot BL? | ||
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For the moment, I think your approach sucks. I don't know where you get your townread on thrawn and Marv. Since that stunt thrawn has been pretty complacent in his play. Feels to me like he thinks he's got a freeride card for not doing anything since that. It's a pretty subjective opinion atm, but you're free to question it. Other than that, I don't know how you can't put me among townies, but maybe I'm just being biased. | ||
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Let me answer to that marv: Cause most of the people he read as town were quite townie at that moment anyway. I've already explained how it benefits him in two ways if he puts townies into the townie list. | ||
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Adam could just have told to have been roleblocked, and his team would have gladly helped at giving the impression. The claim was only useful on the short-term. Scum would have prolly killed him N1 , had he really been vigi. What about your case on jay btw? I find it suspicious that you lost all interest in him with me trying to push him so heavily just to get stuck on this Bullshit | ||
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Now, you did really LOVE those reads by Adam, didn't you? Yet you were finding him quite scummy at the time. Nothing special to say here else than that you didn't try to look for suspicious stuff in that post by Adam. Another thing: 13/12 @ 03:08, VE wrote jaybrundage, wherebugsgo and Bluelightz were all Adam's "probable scum" reads in his reads post. I don't believe that Adam, in a desperation act, called out three people on his team. Therefor, it is my opinion that at least one of wherebugsgo, jaybrundage and Bluelightz, probably two, are town. This puts me at a crossroads because I had both wherebugsgo and jaybrundage as most likely scum before the flip. @Clarity Re: Bluelightz Case - Going back and reading it again, I don't like it very much. *snip* So, now that wbg has been proven town, you don't like both BL and jay as lynch options, what should we make of that statement of yours? | ||
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I think it's time we get a first "real" votecount. Please vote for the guy you'd be willing to lynch now if you had to: It's a townie thing to do. I guess we can agree on that. Also, put your strongest reasons for doing so in your post: ##Vote jaybrundage - opportunist in voting, inconsistent in that thing he might call scumhunting. - suspected WBG when momentum arised although he's been defended by him first. - is in Adams' scumlist. - is generally being quite inactive in scumhunting when noone gives a fuck about him besides me. | ||
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Then why would he claim vigi before shooting bugs? Also I'm not at the point of thinking Palmar would have pushed for an Adam lynch that hard if he was scum. Or would spam accusations against WBG before he got shot by a scumbuddy. That would cause Palmar to lose cred. Sorry, jay. Dismissed, sit down. | ||
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On December 12 2012 08:11 jaybrundage wrote: Hm I think BL would of been a good lynch, Im leaning town on thrawn. Adam honeslty im not sure on but I dont want a no lynch. ##Vote Adam Also. This is the first time you mention Adam. Before, you didn't give a single fuck about him while basically everyone at least mentioned him. On December 11 2012 06:57 jaybrundage wrote: I also want to see some more posts from our lurkers. Bluelightz and MunkE and Palmar. You're scummy as fuck. I can't believe almost noone sees that. | ||
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On December 12 2012 16:02 Tunkeg wrote: Boom! That was a great lynch! Now WBG is 100% scum. Look how hard he was pushing for me after Adam got in trouble. Look how he kept including Adam as his 2nd read, while not ever pointing out why he thought he was scummy. He did this because Adam was very obv scummy, and wbg not mentioning adam as scummy would look really bad for him. Also look at adams read post how hard he tried to distance himself from wbg, "agreeing" with my read on him. Also look at how wbg have presented his arguements (word twisting and misrepresenting facts) and his silly "80% Palmar is scum". WBG must be lynched day 2. Palmar got to be protected if we got a jailkeeper. Also if we got a cop look into someone trying to push my case, voting me and/or push/vote some other case after Adam got mentioned in Palmars video. | ||
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On December 13 2012 00:18 Tunkeg wrote: If we have a vig he should definately put a cap in WBG's ass. If we have a jailkeeper he should definately protect Palmar. But even if protected the chance is that scum got a vig and will double stack Palmar. WBG dies tonight or tomorrow, but Palmar who should we kill day 3? I just don't get the double stack thing. There's pretty stupid reasoning behind this. | ||
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Generally, I get the feeling he's pretty convinced about WBGs guilt rather than having constructed a case. Although I don't get why he's so fixated on Palmar to the point of assuming a double shot on him, I feel that these post reek pretty townish. He's also covering clarity, and I like his latest post of reads. I'll check that post out more thoroughly, but I agree with his targets: BL, VE, jay. | ||
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I think jays reaction was quite telling, he's prolly in scumteam with Z-Boson and thought he witnessed a hardcore scumslip that would get him lynched. Overreacting, he instasheeped you. So, let's kill one of them, and if he's scum, let's kill the other one, aight? I'll look better into Z-Boson later before voting for him tho. I'll be back home at like 6 PM/18:00 CET, in about 9 h | ||
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On December 11 2012 22:13 debears wrote: Vivax, why are you defending someone who has a vote on you? | ||
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Anyway, I had that tendency to lynch him for information when I saw jay react like that, since you were wondering why I suddenly had interest in Z. Other than that, I don't have any arguments at hand to call him scummy yet, I might follow up soon if I conclude he is. | ||
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A few things for the start: He went scum->town->scum on Tunkeg as of now He went suspicious->neutral->scum->town on me, his latest change involved the WBG flip. Reason he doesn't think of me as scum anymore: + Show Spoiler + On December 13 2012 12:04 Z-BosoN wrote: No, tbh I don't think vivax is scum anymore. Despite his weird-as-fuck vote on Adam, the rest of his play feels to me like he is involved. Jay isn't looking too hot, and neither is Djo. VE is also someone I have to look more carefully, as well as yourself. Point a gun to my head and I'd say jay. Then, I found this a bit weird: + Show Spoiler + On December 11 2012 04:17 Z-BosoN wrote: @debears I see you've got some Adam going on for ya. I think you are getting too riled up over expecting someone to go balls out on a day one suspicion. You, for example, are not nearly as spammy as your day one self. I don't think this aligns with your townie play, but I don't think it necessarily makes you scummy. I am curious to hear from adam his stance on thrawn, as he seemed to have dropped it.. No big deal, one could think. But it leaves one question open: What was the purpose of this post?It's basically just saying: "You're suspecting Adam, i don't think you should" "You don't behave like town, but I don't think you're scum" "Adam doesn't call out thrawn anymore, let's hear from him" But overall, I didn't find anything conclusive. You're not gonna like this, but I'm still null on Z-Boson. Doesn't change if I keep looking at his filter. | ||
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Well, yeah, he has first soft-, then hard-defended Adam before the lynch. In my big post against jay I interpreted that as townie since it was so ballsy, and he was not the only one. Me, VE and clarity posted "I'm willing to lynch jay over Adam" (Or Tunkeg, can't recall). Anyway, I found two posts that give me the impression he's town, although you might find the reasons strange. On December 12 2012 08:43 Djodref wrote: I'll switch back my vote to Tunkeg if you guys change your mind last minute for the time I'm taking a shower ! ##Unvote ##Vote Tunkeg On December 12 2012 09:06 Djodref wrote: It's not that, I just really don't think he is our best lynch today. I thought the deadline was at 9am Korea also. I've got to go to work now. I hope you guys are right about Adam... So, actually, I agree with Djo on this argument he gave to his accusations: On December 12 2012 14:37 Djodref wrote: -cut- It would have been easier and safer for scum me to bus Adam because I had given me this escape route before when I said that I didn't mind an Adam lynch. Ok, this is WIFOM, but you should know that my behavior before the lynch points towards a town Djodref and not a scum Djodref. Also, I liked this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=69#1377 What I didn't like much about it is that it's full of townreads, rather obvious ones. With exception of marv, whom I prefer to never consider to be town. Anyway, I'm not down for a djo lynch either. | ||
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They need a healthy portion of attention. | ||
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The only difference is that BLs filter is small and looks bad, jay's filter is big and looks bad. Also, I thought you hate dangly things, so I'm not answering this question to do you* a favour, sweetheart. + Show Spoiler + *but especially myself In any case, I'd vote for BL over Z-Boson. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On December 10 2012 21:37 Bluelightz wrote: Alright, from reading the thread here's some rapid fire scum reads and suspicions - as well as answers after I play some games after posting this. Firstly, thrawn. What I find suspicious about him is that first, he only answers questions when pressured, this is an example of trying not to give information to town and because he has a bunch of one-liners in his filter. Also, shall we take a look at his vote? Oh, it's on WBG, why is it on WBG??? He says that WBG has rubbed him the scummiest out of all the responses, but I think his vote is justified, and thrawn's point is not. Because WBG says because his vote (at the time on thrawn) is because of LALiars, which is possibly true because we don't know thrawn's alignment and his intentions in doing that (although thrawn has explained why he claimed Miller, but in his explanation "It first was mostly a joke but it was also intended to jumpstart discussion", wait what? He's trying to shed a good light to his mostly bad action) Second, jaybrundage: It has been said by clarity already but how I think it is, it's a attempt to avoid pressure, also the sentence after: Does he give a bloody explanation on why thrawn is making a good case why he's scum? nope (so where's the info we can discuss bro?). Piggybacking other people's opinion and not giving one's own: Not giving information to the discussion. Also, lastly, I don't understand why he keeps pressuring thrawn for a response, is thrawn's response so pivotal to him? This along with clarity's case, I will vote jaybrundage. ##vote: jaybrundage So on my simple one post suspicions: Why, everyone knows that chances suck balls in mafia correct? This is as same as lying to be frank (does he know more than we do? Does he know more shit so he can base his 80% chance that Palmar is scum? Is this just an attempt to get a good town player d34d through the lynch?) Dude... Its not whether we believe you. Your lying simple. Not a single persons believes your claim its about why are you lying. For no damn reason. And what purpose would town have to do that. It only makes sense from a mafia perspective He says: 1) There's no town mindset in saying it 2) There's a lot of scum mindset Yet, he keeps warning thrawn he'll get lynch if he keeps it up. And the wishy-washiness despite having said the above "Hey he found it but I'll explain this thing he found!" Doesn't bother to read jaybrundage's filter, but simply describes what jay said in his post. Okay game time. Gonna drop my vote off in the voting thread Then here he starts the bussing process by suspecting Adam for pushing thrawn heavily, when in his previous post the first guy he suspected was thrawn himself lol. + Show Spoiler + On December 11 2012 22:42 Bluelightz wrote: Vivax, do you understand the difference between the both? dabears post is only a simple thing of pointing out/answering a question, however Adam has pushed thrawn heavily. See the difference? Also, dabear if you could explain/join this talk it would be nice. Then this stuff: On December 12 2012 01:43 Bluelightz wrote: Aight. From the thread, I'm gonna vote ##Vote: Adam4167 Because of Palmar's case and my own reasons. I believe this is the most helpful vote I can put in before I sleep as I have school so can't be here @ the deadline. On December 12 2012 20:40 Bluelightz wrote: I'm fine if there's a consensus on bugs. Yeaaah, I'm fine if there's a consensus on this guy I never gave a fuck about since my first post.He's town so who cares. Dunno why I'm even quoting this, one just has to look at his filter. It screams scum. There was a good reason people wanted to vote him before Adam. Also, if you noticed, Djo wanted to direct the bandwagon either to jay or to Tunkeg, not BL tho. So if BL flips scum, we can easily revisit the Djo case. | ||
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On December 11 2012 22:30 wherebugsgo wrote: not like it really matters, but probably: Tunkeg Adam Munk-E one of ZB/VE/you/BL I feel very strongly that among the first 3 there are at least 2 scum. I don't think I am wrong about more than one of them, because Tunkeg + Adam in particular don't play like this as town from what I know. I don't think mafia would so openly confront someone over a play like Djo did. His tone and willingness to question and probe is really towny to me. Ex: He wants to find out thrawn's motivations so he votes him despite thinking that thrawn's actions were townish. I don't see many scum who are willing to put so much attention on themselves in this manner. Think about it: it opens Djo up to the "you're voting someone you have a townread on?" attack, and it's completely obvious. I'm certain scum would at the very least word their posts more carefully or not actually confront the player in such a manner at all. Secondly, when he pushes jay as a lynch, he ACTUALLY pushes it. I don't see scum doing that either. They often don't actively try to convince people to join them in killing someone. Sure, he might be good as scum, but we then have to ask why he would be so concerned with my vote and where it's going. Things like this: Indicate that Djo is reading the thread and at the very least concerned about people giving half-assed reasons to vote people. I didn't really have a great reason to vote Palmar and he called me out on it. Pretty townie reaction IMO. He also doesn't let bullshit fly: If you think Djo is scum, then you have to assume he is very very good at hiding his intentions. I just don't see scum acting the way he has acted so far. He's also far too active IMO to be a day 1 lynch consideration. Good post by WBG regarding djo aswell, and the scum options are quite close to where we are now. Anyway, if you want to prove I'm lying, then go fucking find it for yourself. I've got better stuff to do than to prove I'm innocent to idiots. | ||
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On December 13 2012 22:57 Tunkeg wrote: Don't worry, I am town. You can have a go at WBG post-game all you want, he played like utter shit this game. Also there got to be a scum in either Jaybrundage or Bluelightz (or both). I don't think adam would post his "reads" without least including some of his scumbuddies as scum. Hey Tunkeg, what about these two you mentioned? | ||
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NOW THAT'S something scum would do. Defend a townie when everyone's shitting on him.Blending in like from the handbook. Instead he prefers to assume that only scum would defend other scum day1, the day where every townie knows exactly where to find the first successful lynch by sheeping his majesty of Eyjafjallajökullfuckyou. | ||
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Btw Palmar, I secretly love you. | ||
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On December 11 2012 04:23 Tunkeg wrote: So I have skimmed through the thread. And these are my thoughts: Thrawn's "claim" is a joke claim. He did it in the very beginning, and quickly and without concern went back on it. I didn't like his response when called out on it. But when he in the end explained why he did as he did, it was an ok (no more, no less) explanation. -cut- I don't think the millar "claim" is anything worth spending much time analysing, but I would say that I find it more likely that a townie would do this. On December 11 2012 06:29 Tunkeg wrote: I never said that Thrawn himself said it was a joke. I said it was a joke, meaning I think it was a joke. So try finding the lines yourself before you ask others to do the same... On December 10 2012 14:53 thrawn2112 wrote:At first it was mainly a joke, but it was also intended to jump start discussion. + Show Spoiler + wow big surprise there right? I missed that post by thrawn, so I started spewing bullshit about it, thinking he never wrote such a t hing. However Tunkeg realized he explained the whys of his actions, but when called out by me (by mistake) he reacts neglecting that Thrawn said it himself. Dunno if lying or sloppy though. | ||
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Marv used his entrance post and his NK-related reasoning as arguments. Clarity used...well, while sheeping others he used this: On December 15 2012 00:32 Clarity_nl wrote: I mean.... yeah every post Tunkeg makes has been "scummy" but a lot of his posts scream "newbie" as well. Does anyone know if he's played much before this? Going through his profile real quick it's 3-4 games but they're fairly old. | ||
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If you get people like BL, grush and jay to endgame it becomes a damn casino. But I see clarity is preparing for a shitstorm against me, probably he's out of cheese or something. | ||
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Lynch time is getting close, and this isn't gonna be an easy one. I've previously stated for what reasons I thought he's town. Then I saw this mistake, or lie or whatever when going through his first posts. I've thrown it out like that cause I need feedback, feedback about the weight of such a thing in spite of players like BL or jay, who either 1. don't do anything I find useful or townie or 2. post stuff that looks so bad that it looks like a too easy lynch for others to actually care about it. Makes me think of the game where I chose the guy looking slightly scummy instead of the guy trolling the shit out of us (grush) and turned out wrong. | ||
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Neither do I read this exchange as strictly scummy. Marv persuaded Palmar, other than that a Tunkeg lynch isn't certain yet, so I don't see why he would throw the game away already. Maybe he's just town and mentally masturbating to the prospect of seeing marv and Palmar turn out wrong on him. Consider him a null read I'll vote for if necessary.For now I keep it where it is. | ||
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Anyway, this lynch doesn't look as difficult as Adams'...That kind of makes me insecure. | ||
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Might very well be a genuine townread of BL though. I was about to post quotes, but nevermind, I actually don't believe Palmar is trying to defend BL as in defending a scumbuddy. | ||
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Gimme some mins. Anyway, I meant that I thought Palmar could be covering BL as scum since he thought of him as scum in earlier posts, and to check all options (who has ever questioned Palmar?). But looking through his filter and reading his defense of BL, I decided that Palmar is town.I still think BL is scum tho. I've just written a contradictory looking post up there cause I was sloppy, I don't think Palmar is scum period. Stop reading that much into it ^^' | ||
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The post about Adam Palmar mentions to his defense wasn't "quite early" like Palmar said, most people already expressed their suspicion against him, and BL suspsected thrawn and debears at the same time in his first big post, so it doesn't make any fucking sense to suspect Adam and the other two at the same time, he would have had to assume that they were of different alignment, at least for debears and Adam. And the other post where I argue with BL about Adams defense isn't valid cause BL didn't even understand what I was getting to. I was speaking of debears arguments against Adam being: "He doesn't vote the guy he's suspecting" while debears was doing the same (marv noticed it too) and BL posted exactly the opposite of what I meant: Is voting necessary when one has suspicions on someone? No. It's up to them when they vote. So I said that he was actually defending Adam with that, since Adam was accused by debears of not voting.Meaning BL had no fucking clue of the points used against Adam, either cause he's lazy or cause he, like I believe, just bussed Adam to stay safe without bothering much about the appereance. | ||
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Did you hit red often with that track? | ||
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##Unvote | ||
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Glad you're suspecting my scumreads now, though.Had to learn the hard way. | ||
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I don't know if I'll survive this night, so cooperate with me on this. | ||
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On December 16 2012 04:58 Clarity_nl wrote: Well that was just dumb, but dumb is not alignment indicative and when you're scum it's really weird to contest the towniest person so if anything that exchange makes him town. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zRQzx.gif) | ||
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On December 12 2012 00:59 Djodref wrote: Like, adam making a post about vivax and how he is wary of him without voting him ? Vivax coming up in the thread and defending adam like if the thread was still at page 15 ? And Vivax going against Adam after catching up and stuff ? Yeah, it's strange, but I don't see Vivax as scum because it looks like he genuinely didn't read some part of the thread. I kinda thought of it as a slip when I was asking you your opinions. | ||
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I know it isn't nice to many but I think it has its good sides. Anyway, I think Clarity has been doing almost no analysis since he shot Bugs, and I somehow still keep the option up that what he did while being confronted with Adams last 30 minutes was a spectacular bus scenario, followed by the death of a strong townie cause almost everyone believed bugs to be scum anyway. He also didn't interact with bugs' bluff, but was clearly there. Let's say it's a theory that can fit, and there's not much you can prove otherwise with hard facts (not impressions). But since it's a hot iron to touch I'll focus on other things until we got other scum. | ||
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VE's argument about the existence of a scum vigi made me think a bit again. We've all been taking for granted that clarity is town, all game long. But if you look at the timing of the posts: Adams list: + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2012 09:07 Adam4167 wrote: Alright, seeing as I am the leading vote getter today, Ill get some reads out for you guys so my death isn't a complete waste. Obvious town to me: Palmar, Clarity, dabears, Marv, Thrawn and Vivax. Jaybrundage Jay is lurky when he plays scum, and right now he's fitting the bill. In Arkham City I fell into the trap of thinking that he was too scummy to be scum, and largely ignored him for the entire game until he obviously fakeclaimed and outed himself. This game he looks mostly the same here, ultra lurky, and non-contributive. He's jumped onto my wagon with the reason of " Id rather lynch bluelightz, but I don't want a no lynch". Probably scum. Bluelightz Bluelightz is another one that ultra lurks when he is scum. He was literally afraid to post in Student mafia after replacing in and just sat around in the scum QT. His play in Aperture mafa as scum was similar to his play this game, he throws out a couple of reads and then lurks until someone takes an interest in him. Probably scum. WBG He looks to be bending his reads to please palmar, which is never a good sign from someone as headstrong as WBG. Look at his attitude towards myself, early game he has no problem with my gameplay, after declaring nobody in the thread looks suspicious and turning his attention towards the lurkers. Then, palmar posts his video and I become a suspect, he adds me to his list of scum targets, but with flimsy reasoning and 'meta' but would still rather push other people. Probably scum. Tunkeg Tunkeg is an interesting one. His emo routine after being questioned is not what I would consider 'townie', but his list of reads is at least somewhat helpful and actually looks somewhat similar to mine. I'd keep him alive for now, but keep an eye on him, as he so happily points out, we have no idea what to expect from his scum play. Mostly Null, make him work to show his alignment. VisceraEyes VE has mostly lurked today and really hasn't put much into this game. He's capable of this as either town or scum. He seems pretty content to sheep most of Palmars reads this game, something I wouldn't expect from him but I do like his case on jaybrundage. Mostly null, some small contributions. Djodref Djodref's biggest scum tell from Mario Mafia was that he did absolutely no scum hunting and sat around setup speculating even at LYLO. He's pushed some cases this game, which I consider points in his favour, but he's also back flipped his read on me as soon as Palmar mentioned both of us in his video. He's spent a majority of day 1 defending himself from bad cases, and I think he's capable of being a good contributing townie, leaning town on Djodref. Anyone else that I haven't got to either wasn't memorable or isn't putting in enough effort. ##Vote Jaybrundage Claritys reactions: + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2012 09:30 Clarity_nl wrote: BL is the counter wagon you're looking for. I just don't see it with Adam, and I don't think I'm blinded to anything. I agree with nearly everything in his list post. Logical is the way I go down when I'm town as well, screaming and shouting does no one any good when I'm dead because people won't read my analysis if it's incomprehensible and emotional. On December 12 2012 09:31 Clarity_nl wrote: I'd be willing to vote jay over Adam, ofcourse. Then, when the counterclaims took no traction... On December 12 2012 09:47 Adam4167 wrote: Alright I was hoping that I could talk my way out of this lynch without having to claim, but apparently that does not seem to be possible. I am a Vigilante. Give me a chance to prove i'm town tonight. ...Adam might have given Clarity the reason to bus him. And Adam promised a shot for the night aswell (implying a scum vigi according to VE). Here a lot of options open up since they could have shot someone or said to have been roleblocked, but that would rather get Adam killed the next day since it'd have been more likely that scum would hit him. Anyway, Clarity obviously changed vote after the claim, there were more than 10 votes on Adam at that point, but in retrospect it gives the impression he knew that Adam couldn't be vigi (although clarity could have considered a second vigi, but well, it's a small setup). + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2012 09:49 Clarity_nl wrote: Adam where's your crumb? ##Vote Adam4167 On December 12 2012 09:52 Adam4167 wrote: I don't need to crumb anything, the proof would be in the daypost. And that's how one of the best busses I'd have ever seen could have ended. Clarity obviously crumbed with his fibonacci series.It's just that a vigi of either alignment can crumb that and go back to it, and in this case, the crumb was impossible to find on one's own, so I see no other purpose in it than to strengthen one's claim. Well, this post is about clarity's obtained vigi status, the next one will be about his interactions, stance switches etc. And here I didn't go on with looking cause I've been shat on. But I might deliver in the future if I feel like. | ||
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Your last big list post, similar to this, contained 100 % townreads and 0 scumhunting. This post is the same, you try to scumhunt by elimination. Also, I'd like to know some reasons why you think marv is town. | ||
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Pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease. Need to see some scumhunting from you. | ||
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On December 16 2012 09:37 Palmar wrote: VE may be a better 1st lynch than djodref On December 16 2012 09:40 Palmar wrote: Due to the how certain it is he's scum. | ||
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Can you drop them for a second and assume that your townread on marv might be wrong while going through his filter?Some more analysis of VE would be appreciated aswell, he actually was the first to speculate a scum vigi, but trying to dump it on clarity aswell...And quickly retreating when it didn't gain interest. Probably the best case against djo so far: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=81#1613 This post by Palmar would actually be reason enough to vote for djo, although Palmar refers to it as policy lynch, for lying and trying to stop the lynch. Maybe djo has only been sloppy, but he really had no interactions with Adam I actually have no clue if I should vote for him. I have to reconsider VE, marv, BL and jay aswell. Jay going so superlurky lately and voting like an opportunist stinks quite. | ||
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However, regarding him not voting Adam after the case on jay: That's cause him and clarity followed my proposal of not changing vote until we had enough to switch successfully. So he just repeated the line I suggested = "I'm willing to lynch jay over Adam". Thrawn You should look at marvs posts until that vote way more closely, you will notice something. | ||
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The one which soft-defends early and then busses early, or the one that soft-defends early and tries to stop a lynch by switching vote to two different players in the last minutes? We are assuming that a scum djodref made stupid mistakes and lied to Palmar, and want to lynch him for that. As Palmar himself said, it's more of a policy lynch than anything else.But we're not here to lynch bad townies, we're here to lynch scum, and djodref gives me the impression of a sloppy townie. | ||
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I also excluded the possibility of a VE team saving that shot to blame it on clarity, since clarity told about the shot after deadline. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On December 12 2012 03:45 VisceraEyes wrote: This post right here is why I'm not interested in lynching Tunkeg today. wherebugsgo is very opinionated about the play of others, and isn't a bit shy about calling out their play if he sees it as "bad" or "dumb". This post by Tunkeg seems genuinely confused by Bugs' assertion that his play this game is unlike his play in other, town games because Bugs has, in the past, called his play "bad" and "dumb". It seems scum would be more pissed off at the contradiction than confused - that scum would incredulously OMGUS such an assertion because it's clearly in contrast with what he had said at the time. His reads post reads EXACTLY like the "town" example Bugs provided, aside from the whole giving up and "me flipping town will confirm Palmar as town" nonsense...which could be contrived or honest - but frankly I'm not in the business of figuring out which today because I don't think Tunkeg is a good lynch today. Tunkeg's filter isn't spectacular, but it's way better than like, Bluelightz for example...or grush. I'd be more interested in a grush or Bluelightz lynch than Tunkeg. Certainly jaybrundage and Adam. I'm not touching Tunkeg with a 10 foot pole today. And Bugs, THAT is a derail bish.  Now, onto Adam. I'd have expected a scum VE to profit of the situation by helping a player with a good reputation like marv to push his lynch and take away attention from the Adam lynch. Him trying to lynch jay isn't compatible with theories involving both of them in a scum team either.Additionally, most people were mostly disinterested in a jay lynch, and that stinks of him being scum. Bluelightz would have been an easy lynch to push at many timings, yet VE expressed his disbelief of him being scum, in spite of how easy of a mislynch he'd have been. + Show Spoiler + On December 13 2012 03:08 VisceraEyes wrote: Going back and reading it again, I don't like it very much. It's strewn with true statements (scum care about how they look more than town, Bluelightz calls X strange instead of scummy, etc) but has too many suppositions for my liking. For instance, why is Blue calling something strange instead of scummy alignment indicative? Why can't it just be strange? Why does the fact that he found further reasoning for voting Adam NECESSARILY mean that he cares about looking like a sheep? Why can he not have just found further corroborating evidence and posted it? To be honest, I'm not sure what I think about Bluelightz myself, but your case isn't convincing me of much - only that Bluelightz is playing, as marv said, like Bluelightz. Sorry I didn't respond sooner, but work, lynch, sleep, etc. I liked it before the flip - not so much after the flip. Especially considering Adam put Blue as one of his "probable scum". Of the three people I mentioned at the top of this post, I think Blue is the least likely to flip scum. Not saying much considering I think jay and Bugs have VERY HIGH chances of flipping scum, but Blue's the least likely in my opinion. Then the case about a clarity scum vigi, initially I didn't believe it either, but it was actually possible. I'm not lynching VE today. That said, I suggest that Djo and others should at least elaborate my points. That leaves me with following targets: Jay or BL today. Marv maybe some other day. | ||
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Bluelightz would have been an easy lynch to push at many timings, yet VE expressed his disbelief of him being scum, in spite of how easy of a mislynch he'd have been. COULD have been, and not considering the option that they're a team. | ||
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And Palmar is going to find and lynch me irl if I don't kill one of them. | ||
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Your last post against jay and Hapa was just a bunch of useless fluff.You quote things about jay I've mentioned ages before, but it's a strange timing for you to get interested into them, along with 100 other reasons I'm not arsed to post. And you can hammer concerns about my playstyle into my head as long as you want, you just make yourself guilty more and more of what I did, so I don't see how exactly you are doing things better. | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote VisceraEyes You really should be if you survive the next night. See you around at deadline. | ||
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Then he lowers the percentage of palmer being scum, probably so if he flips town, he doesn't seem as guilty. This part of the second quote of Munk-E is either stupid or scummy, I don't know what to make of Munk-E's exaggerations of that stupid percentage and reading so much into it when asked. Nontheless, Hapas argument for the activity you don't think to be townie enough is out there. He's lazy and busy. So good luck getting him lynched today. Nothing against your case, but we should be focusing on the realistic options for now: Djo, VE and what else? | ||
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On December 12 2012 01:49 marvellosity wrote: yeah, I don't like Munk-E's promise of greater activity + failing to deliver at all. Unfortunately I've seen townies do this too. The fucker just needs to come and play. On December 13 2012 22:24 marvellosity wrote:I wouldn't take Hapa out, mostly because of how Munk-E behaved and the respect I have for his play in general (day 1 hilarity in Mario not withstanding) On December 16 2012 09:30 marvellosity wrote: * Hapa - the play of Munk-E is a blot in his book which is hard to ignore. His absence and vote at the end of Day 1 was just horrid. Since Hapa came in, he's kinda played this generic "pro-town" game. I can't pick particular holes in his filter, but I also can't tell you why Hapa is totes town either. Between him and my next read I think there's a scum, but I don't know which right now. * Djodref - This is probably the guy you gotta hang tomorrow. After jay I've spent the most time on him and it seems like I've been finding excuses to call him town, because I like the guy :/ Palmar has said quite enough on why Djo should be lynched, and I can't actually disagree with anything he says, except for finding reasons not to lynch him. there are simply too many facets of his play that point to a scum agenda, most notably his day 1 actions regarding the adam lynch, his passive-aggressive way of dealing with Z-Bo, and his flat-out lie about his adam-debears interactions. * And the last case against Hapa for voting VE, which you can look up for yourself. Not even gonna write more than this. | ||
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On December 16 2012 08:53 Palmar wrote:Marv really wanted this Tunkeg lynch, which was quite bad yet he pushed it hard. Don't do anything about it yet but do NOT listen to any of his reads over what I have already stated should I die tonight. He is quite possibly scum, but there's not nearly enough evidence for it yet. If marv tries to push alternative lynches to what I have said, he might be scum. Pushing alternate lynches is exactly what he's doing. Just stop getting yourself so influenced by someone who might be scum. If you won't believe me, believe Palmar at least, and focus on VE and djo for the time being. | ||
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On December 17 2012 21:17 Djodref wrote: What do you think of my case against Hapa ? Would you like to lynch him today ? Dismissed. Next. | ||
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Now, let's lynch VE, djo. And that post was fairly old, you posted like 3 cases since then. You want a pat on your back or something? I don't wanna lynch you over VE anyway. Hapa's committed to delivering, so let's give him that chance since his business seems genuine. | ||
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The same arguments can be applied to BL, or JAY, or maybe, maybe grush, but the scum grush I saw was simply trolling the shit out of us. | ||
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Anyone reading him as town? | ||
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I think you mentioned jay before, anyone else? VEs filter is giving me day-nightmares. | ||
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Do you know this much? | ||
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He suspected Adam, confirmed clarity, made a case on me, made a case on jay, defended Tunkeg(!), voted Adam, shouted at Djo for the counterbandwagon, but was willing to switch to jay over Adam. Adam dies. Night: I found a lie/mistake in his posts: On December 13 2012 03:08 VisceraEyes wrote: This puts me at a crossroads because I had both wherebugsgo and jaybrundage as most likely scum before the flip. If I didn't overlook anything, he NEVER cared about bugs. He first mentions him when he agrees with Adams reads, and that's what he has to say about him: On December 12 2012 09:24 VisceraEyes wrote: Bugs doesn't fucking care dude - if he did, he'd be in here trying to swing a Tunkeg lynch. I share his (*Adams) view on Bugs, I share his view on Jay, along with Clarity's case, I'm coming around on Bluelightz too. I don't like that he has you at auto-town, but that's pretty much the ONLY thing I even close to disagree with in that whole post. I love the WHOLE THING marv.  But the right play is lynching him....right? And after Adam flipped scum, VE said that he has suspected Bugs before the flip. This at a timing where everybody became interested in him. This might quite be a slip. Then he defended BL against claritys case, posted some stuff against Bugs before he got lynched, and comes back 14 hours later to post a case against clarity with the scumvigi theory. AND he overlooked that Marv got roleblocked that night + WBGs crumb: I wish Bugs had told us who he jailed. Any crumb-hunters out there wanna take a stroll through his filter? 8 hours later, he expresses his willingness to sheep Palmar and to lynch Tunkeg, Djo and Clarity. However, he didn't care about Djo during the night when Bugs was being attacked, and he didn't care about the interactions of Tunkeg with bugs before trying to convince us of a scum vigi clarity. But these were the reasons he gave us for suspecting the two. Out of nothing he writes a case against Z-Boson after that joke-slip he pointed out, expresses again doubts about Tunkeg being scum, then starts writing about jay and BL rubbing him wrong. Overall, quite a solid lynch for today. The only townie things I could see would be his defence of Tunkeg and him telling Djo to stop starting a counterwagon. | ||
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20 Minutes over I actually told you bullshit, VE. I don't believe your cop claim either way, but thanks for sharing your 'reads' with us. + Show Spoiler + If no one counter-claims?You think it's likely that we have a vigi, a JK, a veteran AND a cop? Look at the timing, he could have claimed 5 hours ago, he's probably just been making this story up in the meantime. He doesn't have a crumb either, aside from half a dozen other reasons he's probably scum. You didn't defend Djo either at the moment it mattered. Have fun on the chopping block. Please don't get fooled by VE. Look at his scumlist, Hapa is actually behind a jay lynch, so it doesn't even make sense in this short span of time. | ||
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On December 17 2012 12:07 Z-BosoN wrote: Okay, I'm down to lynching VE. I don't like how he disappeared and hasn't really responded to anything. He doesn't seem interested in the game AT ALL. If you guys recall, we hadn't interacted at all up until he noted my "scumslip". He then made his "case" on me: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=81#1607 And parked his vote on me. This came at a time when I had some pressure on me. I agree a lot with Djo's point on how he is really just going with the flow. Note how his play is in complete contrast with his game on Liquid City. When he found me to be scum, he spent quite some time interacting with me, prodding around asking other people (BC) what they thought of me, etc. He then gave some attention elsewhere when I wasnt getting any traction. Take a look at the interaction that begins in the last 4-5 posts of this page: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=371260&user=117978¤tpage=8 And some in the next page as well. This game it's complete and utter crap. He gives a crap reason (that basically surmounts to: I'm prodding people everywhere) and doesnt push me, doesnt do shit. He parks his vote on me and keeps it there, saying later just how he'd be down to lynch me. Doesn't ask other people what they think of me, doesn't try to push his "scum read". There's also that whole Palmar wants him dead thing. I'm curious to see what his next move is. | ||
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We had two days to get to a target, if you didn't get involved then but try to now by changing target, you're just creating confusion. | ||
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Also, it's a really bad moment to discuss that.As said, we had two days to consolidate. | ||
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If VE flips red you're next thrawny. | ||
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You'll just lead the lynch to shit. | ||
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On December 18 2012 08:43 thrawn2112 wrote: yeah because some jackass is telling me to stfu Chill the hell down. You can speak about Hapa all you want when you aren't endangering a lynch, but it looks like your purpose judging by your vote, else you would write convincing things instead of asking for votes. | ||
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On December 18 2012 09:10 marvellosity wrote: Hi, I'm home on time. I see we have a claim. Did anyone check / does anyone remember whether VE crumbed in Liquid City? On December 18 2012 08:44 Z-BosoN wrote: Ok, guys, VE's play is in total fucking contrast of his townie game. Palmar is almost sure he's scum. He has no crumb. Even in LC mafia he had some sort of crumb. His push on me makes no fucking sense from a townie perspective. Refer to Liquid City mafia. It's risky for a cop to counter-claim right now, he'll get nked with little chance to actually investigate. Everything points to VE being scum. The alternative to that is a no-lynch, which gets us nowhere. I have to go right now, so I'll take his bluff. ##Vote VisceraEyes | ||
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Talking of him as one of the best players to ever grace TL mafia. And wtf is that post. | ||
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Also, Djo: + Show Spoiler + Oh,you! | ||
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Today, we will take a closer look at thrawn, for trying to win people over to Hapahauli without exposing himself excessively, and for acting weird with his votes. Stay tuned. | ||
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What we know for sure is: He was the first to vote VE. His second next target would have been jay. He didn't want to vote Djo. I would expect from scum to look for another target to hang on in the meantime, but he only did something similar once, and it looked pretty transparent and townie. On December 18 2012 09:38 Hapahauli wrote: I can't figure out a player that I'd feel comfortable switching onto. Jay's reactions so far don't seem scummy. He's setting himself up to draw alot of attention to himself regardless of how VE flips. Even Z-Bo seems alright. ...and who else? Bluelightz? Seems like a coin-flip. Why would he be the first to vote VE tho? | ||
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His interaction with Adam just looks too townie. And if they just set it up to insure themselves for later, then it ended up in a massive fail for them. No thrawn lynch anytime soon. But might have to look at the other play at some point. | ||
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Hapa settles on a coinflip between BL and boson? Are you sure we are reading the same thing?It seems to me you're putting words into his mouth. It looks to me like he's posting reasons to not switch his vote, rather than posting targets he'd switch his vote onto. | ||
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On December 12 2012 09:30 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm willing to vote jay over Adam. | ||
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Same like there are good reasons to vote Djo, these reasons point to him to have lied after covering Adam and trying to start a counterwagon. I also noticed a little resistance in choosing VE as target before it was clear that noone believed the claim. If he was scum that'd be the reason he wrote 3 freaking cases with VE in the middle, so he could switch between them when possible. But sadly like 5 people were thinking about switching, so it's hard to filter out the scum. The problem is that he's managed to give an overall townie impression so far by going supertryhard when hewas about to get lynched. Anyway, I've been reading like a madman and I can't get any decisive scumreads for tomorrow ;_; . Unsure between Djo and jay. I just know that marv has to be lynched at LYLO, but that should be a given. No, lynch him a day before just to be sure. | ||
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Then he jumps to VE and BL after bugs dies. Goes back to VE, posts wishy washy shit about Tunkeg, again BL and Djo. Dunno, I'll give him a null. On December 11 2012 05:44 grush57 wrote: Also Adam is reminding me of his scum play. On December 13 2012 05:42 grush57 wrote: Why are you guys thinking that Bugs is scum. :'( He isn't. Djordef is scum. So is Vivax. But I would also like to think that Bluelightz is scum. But that doesn't make sense if Vivax is scum. So Djor + Vivax/BlueLightz + someone who isnt grush!!!!!!!!! GO GO VIGILANTES On December 13 2012 12:42 grush57 wrote: Why does no one listen to the Starsenses? Anyways with bugs not being scum either VE or Bluelightz is scum. ##Vote: BlueLightz On December 14 2012 05:39 grush57 wrote:ANYWAYS VE is playing super illogical, but he seems like an honest townie. I don't know about Tunkeg he could either be bad town or scum. Clarity is town. Djordef never mentioned scumbuddy Adam and DIRECTLY tried to counterlynch bandwagon. That play is so bad as scum that is the only thing saving him. I am up for lynching him. I'm also for lynching Bluelightz because his play is extremely bad/scummy. Plus the fact that out of all the vets, I find him by far the most scummy and mafia usually has atleast 1 vet. | ||
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You forgive every mistake he's done in the past cause he started posting with a gun at his head? | ||
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They did the fucking same thing with two different mafia. Just that Djo didn't even bother writing his reasons. Jay instead tried to convince us with his WIFOMath. Jay at least is being honest about it, Djo lied to Palmar. I realize however, that Djos posting style resembles more that of a town, but mainly cause he isn't/doesn't look like the most clumsy player in here. Anyway, I didn't even want to hear your opinions, I've already heard Hapas', and marv being mostly wrong in his pushes at this game rubs me wrong anyway. I want to hear something about this lurky guy avoiding my questions, grushiboi. You don't?Prefer him to remain like that? | ||
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And ASIDE from that, those weren't lynches you pushed marvy, you joined them at convenient times. Anyway, I'm not gonna get dragged onto the sublevel of discussion you use to start flaming and disrupt discussion whenever someone questions you. If town is remotely intelligent you'll get lynched at LYLO if not earlier. And you seem to be so confident about the people that are hard to read to be town (BL, grush) when no one else is. Guess which team that behaviour favours, when such players aren't forced to post more. | ||
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I love you marv, let's be friends. | ||
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Also, how did Jay behave differently from Djo @ the lynch, except that Djo lied to Palmar? Essentially, what I wrote up there. | ||
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On December 19 2012 07:53 marvellosity wrote: How did Djodref play day 3? He spent fuckloads of time making scumreads and cases and being active and pushing people. I can't be 100% he's town for reasons you mention, but I'm somewhat confident he is at this point. He did it with the gun at his head, and you're utterly ignoring his previous actions in your argumentation. As I already stated, he's been flirting with other lynches while the VE push was gaining traction, so I don't take for granted that his VE case was genuine. And honestly, some of his cases contained imprecisions or bad arguments. One of these I replied to, he didn't respond to. On December 19 2012 07:53 marvellosity wrote: How did jaybrundage play day 3? He kept pushing Djo without being able to come up properly with reasons he was scum and parrotting Palmar. That reminds me strongly of someone: On December 16 2012 09:30 marvellosity wrote: Djodref - This is probably the guy you gotta hang tomorrow. After jay I've spent the most time on him and it seems like I've been finding excuses to call him town, because I like the guy :/ Palmar has said quite enough on why Djo should be lynched, and I can't actually disagree with anything he says, except for finding reasons not to lynch him. there are simply too many facets of his play that point to a scum agenda, most notably his day 1 actions regarding the adam lynch, his passive-aggressive way of dealing with Z-Bo, and his flat-out lie about his adam-debears interactions. So, by your logic, you are at least as guilty of being as scummy as jay in this regard? On December 19 2012 07:53 marvellosity wrote: A scum grush doesn't bother doing any of these things. Really? You would so easily be fooled by such undefined meta? I can't believe you could be so bad, so I don't believe you're town. Take it as a compliment. YOU SHALL HAVE YOUR NECK STRETCHED MARV. I WANT TO CHOMP ON YOUR EARS AND SCREAM JIBBERISH | ||
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Also, are you able to link me your last post where you've been analysing someone? | ||
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On December 12 2012 17:07 Hapahauli wrote: EBWOP: Derp He doesn't attempt to glorify it or justify it - he's candid about the whole thing, and that strikes me as town. Added in haste after you forgot to put it into your main analysis post which you refused to post after I asked. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=52#1021 I think I'll join other townies in voting you tomorrow. Shoot me bitches. | ||
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Hapa Hauli, als known as the scumdumpster His train of thoughts + Show Spoiler + On December 14 2012 06:05 Hapahauli wrote: Meh, I'm not feelin a VE lynch right now. His thing with clarity reads more as a misguided tunnel than something malicious. Bluelightz on the other hand is ripe for some lynching. Lynch-bait or not, he's one of the few players in the game that hasn't given me any reason to think he's town. Tunkeg being the other, but I rather like that last longer post of his. OH WELL I DON'T THINK VE IS SCUM.LET'S GET BL. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ + Show Spoiler + On December 14 2012 12:00 Hapahauli wrote: I"ve made my reads really really clear. VE's giving me more of a dumb town vibe than malicious scum. I want to lynch Bluelightz, but Tunkeg is rapidly climbing my list and is a clear #2. I'VE PROTECTED VE WITH ONE LINE OF WIFOM AND CAUSE HE'S MISGUIDED, SO I'VE MADE MY READ REALLY CLEAR. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ + Show Spoiler + On December 14 2012 12:31 Hapahauli wrote: Whaddy'a thinking of VE at the OH I DON'T THINK VE IS SCUM BUT LET'S ASK SOME OPINION ABOUT HIM.AFTER ALL I'VE MADE MY READS REALLY CLEAR. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ + Show Spoiler + On December 16 2012 10:02 Hapahauli wrote: I'd read dump, but I don't have much to add to what Palmar had said. I'm still much more hesitant on Djo however. VE will probably be my lynch target of choice if I'm alive. OH AFTER PALMAR POSTED HIS READS I WILL OF COURSE VOTE VE, I'VE JUST BEEN SAYING HE'S TOWN FOREVER WITH <10 LINES OF ANALYSIS. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ + Show Spoiler + On December 17 2012 08:36 Hapahauli wrote: Regarding VE, he hasn't given me any sufficient reason to think he's town. He's my top scumread at the moment. As for Bluelightz, I came away from his "demotivated" conversation much the same as you did. Whiney, but townie. Or at the very least, more townie than VE. OH EVERYTHING I POSTED EARLIER WAS JUST BULLSHIT. FORGIVE ME GUYS. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ Lynch him tomorrow. Especially if I die. | ||
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So far his only argument has been: "yeah, reads can change" without providing much reasoning behind his reads. If we don't pressure him he'll slip away, and he STILL plays way differently than in *cough* other games. | ||
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On December 12 2012 13:22 Hapahauli wrote:By contrast, vivax's mentality seems to be more "scummy" on his vote. He goes from a soft defense to being very sure and comfortable with his vote. That behavior IMO is more along the lines of scum-mentality. THAT is hapa with his VE stance switch. | ||
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If you guys I just mentioned have any doubts, feel free to express them. We need some discussion, not blind jay votes. Hapa didn't even vote for him yet after writing he did. That shows how much he cares about that lynch. It's so obvious he's scum I'm having ball cramps. | ||
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On December 19 2012 12:13 Hapahauli wrote: I mean again. I devoted my self to this game and this game only + studying. Sorry you're not buying it, but it is what it is. Also, why is BL not scummy? Is it just because I'm scum, or because you haven't looked into his behavior? *snip* DON'T MAKE ME POST BABY SEAL PICS. I WILL! | ||
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 .Scumdumpster has a lot of holes. Going to bed early today, so don't expect me at lynch time. | ||
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If I said I was going immediately to vote him, he wouldn't have delivered, like he didn't deliver the big post he promised when it was clear he'd get lynched. You clearly don't know how to mindfuck scum. | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote Vivax | ||
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If marv survives this night, we lynch him. If scum stacks another shot, we lynch him too. If he dies, we lynch Hapa. In any case, we should take a super close look at Z-Boson. Gonna deliver during the da..night. | ||
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I've concluded that Z-Boson is 99 % not mafia. | ||
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Hapa has done a lot of shit, but there is someone out there who appears to be way more scummy in retrospect: Djo. I can't explain else why he was so supportive of a jay lynch when he's been doing the same stuff in front of Palmar. That puts the puzzle together, scum will probably shoot me and thrawn or Z-Boson, so you know what to do the next day. I'm gonna post the definitive proof later. | ||
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Doesn't it strike you as strange? | ||
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THRAWN & MARV :______________________________________________________________________________________________________ On December 10 2012 10:36 VisceraEyes wrote: Given what Adam posted about thrawn's stance on self-aware millers claiming, I'm willing to rule out fake-claiming (town OR scum), so that leaves us with town joking or scum joking. Between those two, I'd say that thrawn is more likely town than scum. It seems that scum would be more afraid to jokingly claim something that's going to draw attention to him, if not by virtue of the claim alone then because it's not possible for him to even know that. On December 11 2012 03:18 VisceraEyes wrote: *snip* The case on jay seems to revolve around his lack of commitment to his "scumread" on thrawn based on the miller claim. First of all, I have to say - I don't find that to be particularly damning. *snip* But Vivax....Vivax is in here actively trying to put suspicion on me for having a townread on thrawn. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ On December 10 2012 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote: are you actually saying that I, as scum, in a game where millers aren't aware, because of my past experience in dealing with miller claims, fakeclaimed in order to get people to be extra confused about my alignment? I don't like that you're policy voting, but whatever sometimes emotions get in the way of logic. However I just can't understand the reasoning you're using to call me scum. This is a pretty accurate summary of what he has been doing. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ On December 10 2012 10:50 marvellosity wrote: we're like an hour in -.- pretty likely to be dumb town, especially coming from thrawn who was super-lurky as scum in Mario and I don't particularly see him pulling a stunt like that as mafia. On December 10 2012 21:59 marvellosity wrote: debears, I don't really get whatever your thing on Adam is. You seem to have a problem with him not immediately denouncing thrawn as scum or declaring him town. What's actually wrong with it?? It seems like you're manufacturing something out of nothing. On December 14 2012 12:11 marvellosity wrote: Anyway, picking up where I left off ^^ Now there's Djodref. There are more things I find scummy in his filter than BL, but there's also some things I find townier too. His vote on thrawn was bad and was kinda along the lines of falling into what Adam did. He questioned him repeatedly, and even when it should have been clear that thrawn was probably town, he still ended up chucking a vote on him. Tied into this is that he concentrated on wbg's random 80% number way more than seemed necessary. Generally Djo's whole handling of the Day 1 stuff with adam doesn't look good. On December 11 2012 11:11 marvellosity wrote: Tunkeg has done jack shit to make me think he's town which I love to lynch for on Day 1, but Adam has betrayed a scum mentality right there. ##Unvote ##Vote: Adamsomenumbers This is also the reason that Djo is probably town.Thrawn also agreed on finding him scummy. ___________________________________________________________________________________________ On December 11 2012 10:06 Adam4167 wrote: I found his initial opening to be strange as its not something I can imagine myself doing, so I wanted him to explain his motives behind it. He did, eventually and I can relate to hating the initial policy discussion. I find Thrawn most likely a town with a risky opening. I did what I did early game to try and get a reaction out of him, it wasn't entirely productive, but I have a tentative read on thrawn from it. On December 10 2012 11:55 Adam4167 wrote: That's OK, you don't need to like me. Your 'case' isn't much of one, I said I don't know if hes scum or not, so why would I vote him? I feel I've been very transparent about why i'm doing what i'm doing, to try and get some semblance of a read on Thrawn for his early actions. Right now i'm putting him in the 'I don't know what the hell hes doing' category. Adams' vagueness is the nail in the coffin. Thrawn made the most ballsy scum move I have ever seen, and it backfired on their team by getting Adam lynched. So, first of all: + Show Spoiler + HAHAHAHAHAHA WHAT A FAILURE Kill Thrawn first, then decide if you want to kill marv immediately or at lylo to be safe. If you don't go for marv, you should probably pick between grush or BL. I have no time to post more analysis before I might die, I just came back from a dinner and have to depart tomorrow, so I hope I'm not gonna die tonight. If marv is really scum this game, which I believe, then my compliments for your play. Out of the three you're the hardest to estimate in regard to your connection with thrawn. Djo is probably not scum cause Thrawn agreed with me on him being scummy in the last pages (lol) when there's no chance he's going to be lynched. Z-Boson has been targeted by cases made by thrawn and VE at pretty close timings. Marv has been basically been an extremely agile guy, noone except me and Palmar even thought for a second about him being scum, but there are some interactions with VE that strike me, which I will post now. | ||
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On December 10 2012 10:46 VisceraEyes wrote: @ marv What do you think about thrawn? Your first post on the subject seemed to indicate suspicion, while your second seemed to elude to a more "stupid town" read. Which is it? And why are you playing like you don't give a shit? On December 10 2012 10:55 VisceraEyes wrote: Then I guess you don't care really about him explaining his motivations considering the town read and scum meta and such...except you did ask him to explain himself. SEHR INTERESSANT! ##Vote: marvellosity On December 12 2012 08:18 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm starting to think marv scum. Marvy baby you scum? On December 11 2012 10:51 VisceraEyes wrote: Marv Looks Town Marv looks like marv. AND WHILE THAT LOOKS DAMN GOOD, it doesn't look like town. At least, not to me....not yet. I'm strongly and vehemently NULL on Marv. | ||
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On December 11 2012 11:51 thrawn2112 wrote: Adam/debears early game I had the same initial reaction to adam's post that debears did. Here is the line that I think is the start of the conflict: Yes, that line does imply that adam is having doubts about thrawn's alignment. And no, adam does not commit to a read on thrawn. There is no reason to compare thrawn's play this game with his play from a town game unless you are trying to show similarities/differences and therefore some sort of meta based read. However I'm fine with adam not voting for thrawn. I'm even fine with him not wanting to call him scum at that point. It happened at a very early point in the game... I don't expect anyone to be that sure of a read at that point. Do I think debears is scummy for that interaction? No, he's simply did what adam was doing, which was questioning people over weak shit that happened during the early game. *This looks like he copypasted something not written by him lol.He's speaking of himself in third person hahah. Adam/debears "scumslip" I'm referring to this post. So what's going on is adam says he thinks debears is scum, and later says he thinks debears is misunderstanding posts. The logic is that if adam thinks debears is scum, he wouldn't think debears's problem would be that he's misunderstanding posts. Yet again I think debears is probably being overzealous because of two reasons... confidence and compartmentalization. If adam is town is he 100% sure about debears being scum? I'm assuming not, and when there is any doubt you always should compartmentalize your reads so that you don't make assumptions based off of unflipped players. (yes I know it's specific to the situation, but in general and especially on D1) On top of all of that, debears can be both scum and misunderstanding adam's posts. I see just about as many possibilities where it's a scumslip as where it isn't a scumslip, so I do not think it's a scumslip. (*LOL awesome logic, equal measure, different outcome?) Something that's been irritating me is the discussion about debear's vote for me. The actual vote itself and the manner in which he did it.... I'm leaning mostly null on but maybe just a little bit town. Djo... do you / did you realize that the matrix video was a direct representation about how debears felt about his vote? It was a joke video response to a question about a joke vote because of a joke claim. In fact, debears' reaction to thrawn's posts was what I was expecting from most people regardless of their alignment. You are questioning him for not engaging in the discussion, when it was (to me) obvious that he didn't find the discussion worth his time. I'm not seeing what's scummy about the first interactions between debears and thrawn. Palmer's video -his town group of debears/clarity/marv This might be what I agree with the most from the video, even down to the order of most town to most scum (clarity, debears, marv) Debears has been derping recently but not in a way that I think makes him scum. I've been getting a gut town read on marv because of how he jumped on me for being a jackass. I thought he was telling the truth about his opinion of my play. His overall involvement hasn't been quite up to my expectations but it's nothing extreme so I'm not worried about marv yet. When did you realize you were wrong? tldr -clarity/debears/marv are probably the people I'm least likely to lynch (*but he doesn't say he won't lynch Adam here lol) -the adam/debears conflict is interesting but I'm not convinced of either of debears' cases against adam and I don't want to lynch adam On December 11 2012 14:51 thrawn2112 wrote: wbg, when marv first voted for tunkeg I liked his case. I agree with yours too and I could lynch tunkeg tomorrow. What are your thoughts on marv voting tunkeg and recently changing to voting adam? On December 11 2012 14:56 thrawn2112 wrote: tomorrow as in after i go to sleep, wake up, and vote and atm i'd be opposed to an adam lynch if it was in opposition to say, a tunkeg lynch. i think a lot of the stuff about adam has been blown out of proportion On December 11 2012 17:28 thrawn2112 wrote: that's what I was getting at here, it just took a lot more words. I think it's more likely to be a scumslip than what happened between adam and debears On December 11 2012 18:56 thrawn2112 wrote: atm i'd rather lynch a lurker than adam On December 12 2012 01:56 thrawn2112 wrote: vivax's posts are annoying to try and read because he's an asshole to everybody and he accuses lots of people of being scum without following it up. but my read is that it's townie asshole-ness I don't like the jay lynch. It was ok earlier on but now it just looks like an obvious mislynch. somehow 3 people are voting for him? I dont understand those votes. I don't like adam as the lynch either. Here is the series of events I see.... He asks a question about my meta. Other people have brought up that this doesn't have to be bad but it's at least pointless as he can look at my meta himself. However I don't think that anyone has pointed out until now that his very next post was directly about my meta, and it specifically referenced a game that was not linked to by anyone in this thread. Regardless of his alignment he at least did the work so that point against him is invalid. Not only is it invalid but I'm actually getting a town read from it. Can scum do this? Sure, but my read from this specific situation is that town did it. Another point against him is his mindset when talking to debears... but tunkeg has done the same thing and it's more extreme of an example imo. Other than that, there is a weird tone to adam's posts that will make me not be surprised if he's red, but I don't expect that to be the case. (*hahahahaha fail) I'm thinking about a tunkeg or maybe a lurker lynch. I don't like any of the other lynches too much. On December 12 2012 05:25 thrawn2112 wrote: debears, why are you so irrational and emotional this game? On December 12 2012 05:27 thrawn2112 wrote: how does everyone seriously feel about a lurker lynch? On December 12 2012 08:01 thrawn2112 wrote: marv do you feel good about the adam lynch? On December 12 2012 08:10 thrawn2112 wrote: what does everyone think is the most damming part of the adam case? I don't buy the stuff about the scumslip. I think the most interesting part of the case is how he took the early game stupidity too seriously. + Show Spoiler [this post] + On December 10 2012 12:45 Adam4167 wrote: He announced in thread to be voting for Thrawn, but the vote never made it into the voting thread, then he builds a case on me around not voting on someone that I had said I wasn't sure of the alignment of. Ill be watching him closely today. On December 12 2012 09:35 thrawn2112 wrote: i'm not in favor of the adam lynch but i'm even less in favor of lynching jay instead of adam. i'll go for adam if it comes down to adam vs jay On December 12 2012 10:51 thrawn2112 wrote: but are you scum? so now it seems natural that among thrawn, boson, and djodref, each of them should be expecting to find at least 1 scum between the other two..... unless any of them think that all the scum were bussing adam, which thrawn doesn't Third person again. Also thanks for the nice acting in the end marv + thrawn, if one of you goes the other does, too. Scumteam was super active opposing the Adam lynch in earlygame, just look at VE. | ||
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VEs interactions with Z-Boson led me onto the wrong tracks regarding him. I shall thereby not be led by scum in my beliefs. I would like to know if marv could achieve the same results with a smurf account. I noticed that so many townies are afraid of pushing against him. He deviates arguments so effectively by either provoking or asking questions that make you think he's town when you try to answer them. Z-Boson was kinda lurky until the end. Still a really good play in terms of invisibility The only ones making cases on you were VE and thrawn I think. When I tried to join VE on the bandwagon against you he immediately called me out for scummy bandwagoning, I think that's indicative of it having been a fake case, in retrospect. He should have been glad to have people on his bandwagon, instead he did the opposite. Well, fuck me, I could have seen it and made the connection.. | ||
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I just don't get what you thought during the last night post. You put a pyro in there, and...he locks the door behind us. As for the VE lynch, I've learned what turnips and cloth pegs means. | ||
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