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Djo, can you post a few cases? Cases where you don't argue that someone has an alignment cause you are town?
Pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease.
Need to see some scumhunting from you.
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Thrawn who else are you suspicious of besides djo?
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Also, you misquoted Palmar:
On December 16 2012 09:37 Palmar wrote:
VE may be a better 1st lynch than djodref
On December 16 2012 09:40 Palmar wrote:
Due to the how certain it is he's scum.
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Thrawn, I disagree on Boson and hapa.
Can you drop them for a second and assume that your townread on marv might be wrong while going through his filter?Some more analysis of VE would be appreciated aswell, he actually was the first to speculate a scum vigi, but trying to dump it on clarity aswell...And quickly retreating when it didn't gain interest.
Probably the best case against djo so far:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=81#1613
This post by Palmar would actually be reason enough to vote for djo, although Palmar refers to it as policy lynch, for lying and trying to stop the lynch.
Maybe djo has only been sloppy, but he really had no interactions with Adam
I actually have no clue if I should vote for him. I have to reconsider VE, marv, BL and jay aswell.
Jay going so superlurky lately and voting like an opportunist stinks quite.
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Djo, I especially like the points against VE in your last parts, he only once challenged town when suspecting clarity, but quickly abandoned it. Other than that, he's been blending in very well with his vote targets.
However, regarding him not voting Adam after the case on jay: That's cause him and clarity followed my proposal of not changing vote until we had enough to switch successfully. So he just repeated the line I suggested = "I'm willing to lynch jay over Adam".
Thrawn
You should look at marvs posts until that vote way more closely, you will notice something.
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And if you followed my suggestion aswell regarding the Adam thingy, you wouldn't be in such trouble now heh. Wouldn't have been enough to switch vote anyway.
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Can you tell me what I'm talking about?Sorry if I'm still cryptical, but I'd really like if others noticed for themselves.
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And which scum play is better and more dangerous in your opinion?
The one which soft-defends early and then busses early, or the one that soft-defends early and tries to stop a lynch by switching vote to two different players in the last minutes?
We are assuming that a scum djodref made stupid mistakes and lied to Palmar, and want to lynch him for that. As Palmar himself said, it's more of a policy lynch than anything else.But we're not here to lynch bad townies, we're here to lynch scum, and djodref gives me the impression of a sloppy townie.
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Hasn't anyone else been wondering why the scum vigi didn't shoot during N1?And how marv got roleblocked?
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I know , WBG crumbed it with that post. It's hard to tell if you told us you've been roleblocked cause you noticed that crumb or cause you're town. But the fact is, scum vigi didn't shoot that night.
I also excluded the possibility of a VE team saving that shot to blame it on clarity, since clarity told about the shot after deadline.
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No, I'm saying that it's suspicious that we didn't see a shot from scum vigi the night you were roleblocked, and that your claim of being roleblocked doesn't have to be a townie action.
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What's off about VE is that he defended Tunkeg against some pretty strong cases before the Adam lynch,namely by marv.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 12 2012 03:45 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 17:18 Tunkeg wrote:On December 11 2012 16:59 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 11 2012 16:06 Tunkeg wrote:
Lol WBG. In these games you are linking to, and others games like it, haven't you been the one complaining about me posting readposts like that? And also me posting "useless" questions?
And now you say the same play you labeled as bad and useless actually was scumhunting?
If you want me lynched for meta fine. But don't try to convince the thread you were a fan of my previos play. just because I think something is dumb doesn't mean I think it's scummy. I don't recall ever seriously calling you scum in those games. Not to mention, in AC I was scum. Nice fail response, scum. On December 11 2012 16:00 VisceraEyes wrote:I changed my mind. I think jaybrundage is scum. On December 10 2012 10:29 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever happened to people going "LOL" after a video like in the olden days? VE gimme your thoughts on thrash After his first post on thrawn in which he says he’s suspicious, he asks my opinion of the matter. I gave it, and that’s the last that was heard about it. Why did he want my input? He never referenced anything I said, or even acknowledged that I said it. I believe that he was just trying to get someone to agree with him regarding thrawn. On December 10 2012 10:37 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 10:33 thrawn2112 wrote:On December 10 2012 10:28 Adam4167 wrote:On December 10 2012 10:24 thrawn2112 wrote:On December 10 2012 10:19 Adam4167 wrote:On December 10 2012 09:57 thrawn2112 wrote:
any answer I could possibly give would just betray the actual purpose behind that post, making whatever I hoped to accomplish with that post no longer possible I think you better try to explain what you were hoping to accomplish here. On November 01 2012 08:25 thrawn2112 wrote:
If a miller claims D1 I don't even know what my thought process would be for deciding if I believe them or not, so I'm hesitatingly saying that I disagree with the idea I find this post sits in a stark contrast to your current play, and this is from one of your recent town games (ACME). What's the stark contrast? I don't see how these things are even related. Are you trying to suggest I'm scum? because you went about it pretty subtly. Town you from ACME says that you disagree with the idea of millers claiming, and that you don't even know what your thought process would be for deciding if its real or not. Why are you trying to put everyone else in a similar position of confusion? If I wanted to call you scum, I would have. What I want to know is why you are doing what you are doing. That's not even the issue. How am I putting anyone in a compromising decision about whether or not to believe the claim when millers aren't even self aware? I don't understand what accusation you're trying to make, it makes no sense in the context of what the OP has to say about millers. Dude... Its not whether we believe you. Your lying simple. Not a single persons believes your claim its about why are you lying. For no damn reason. And what purpose would town have to do that. It only makes sense from a mafia perspective It really makes me uncomfortable when someone else speaks for me, and in this post jaybrundage is telling thrawn that I don’t believe his claim. I didn’t believe his claim, but because I thought his claim was a joke considering that the OP is explicit in the fact that millers are not self-aware. Therefor, I thought his claim was funny. But I certainly didn’t think he was LYING about his claim with any malicious intent. It doesn’t make sense for me to think that he thought that I would believe that claim based on what the OP says. But jaybrundage is telling thrawn in no uncertain terms that I, VisceraEyes, think that he’s lying about his claim for no reason. And that’s not the case. He then goes on to say that “...It only makes sense from a mafia perspective.” But that’s not true either is it? If thrawn is to be believed, he did it as a joke and to “spark discussion” and “ignite conversation” and such. Which, if he’s town, is a reasonable (if misguided) motivation. On December 10 2012 11:03 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 10:56 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 10:44 debears wrote:On December 10 2012 10:07 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 10:01 debears wrote:On December 10 2012 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever happened to people going "LOL" after a video like in the olden days? Ikr Anyways Djo the video was a response to the question, but a fun way of doing it Have you not seen the Matrix? Did you not watch the video? Yes, I guess you were saying that your vote was not real with the video. What was your motivation with your first vote on thrawn ? What is your real take on thrawn fakeclaim ? To get the voting rally started of course. Break the ice sonAnd it's strange. It would make no sense from a town perspective. His PM can't tell him he's a miller, because they aren't self aware. So from town - he was joking and he knew millers weren't self aware. Just did it for shits and giggles scum - he claimed miller without checking first. I just don't see a scum being that reckless, but i'm sure if he's town he'll put in a productive day 1. Or, he could've knew someone would interpret him as a joking townie if he's scum. and the wifomwifomwfiom I'm the first to vote in the voting thread  So you see thrawn as a joking town or a reckless scum (less likely) or scum using WIFOM. Okay... I personally can see a motivation for a town player to fakeclaim like this (serious motivation) that would make sense but I'm waiting for him to explain it first so I can check it matches my expectation or not. At the exception of thrawn, do you have any comment to make on other players in this early game ? Hey Djo can you do us all a favor and type in your vote here when you decide to vote for someone one in the voting thread. It would help out alot and i rather not have to check it till the end of the day. The thing that I don’t like about this post isn’t even that it’s self defeating in the fact that Djo had, in fact, voted in the game thread...which shows that he’s not only not reading the thread, but is closely watching the voting thread...the opposite of what he’d have you believe in the post quoted above. It’s not that. Look at what Djo is saying. He’s saying he believes thrawn was joking too, and is asking someone about their thoughts on anyone else. So he’s ignored my response regarding thrawn. Now he’s insidiously trying to discredit Djo (calling out his not-really-ninja vote in the voting thread) rather than respond to his post requesting discussion outside of thrawn. It all starts to stink like scum pushing an agenda to me. Especially considering, in spite of all of this... On December 11 2012 04:43 jaybrundage wrote:On December 11 2012 01:35 Clarity_nl wrote:On December 11 2012 01:32 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 23:52 Clarity_nl wrote:Hey marv, you've explain why we shouldn't vote a bunch of people (thrawn, jay, palmar) but do you have any reasons we should vote a someone? On December 10 2012 22:04 marvellosity wrote:
On jay, I'm ok on how he explained his 'slips'. My only worry with jay is that he comes across as overly... compliant?:
"Glad someone is reading my posts. I felt like i wasnt get any feedback from them."
"I do appreciate you giving your reasoning behind your claim. It helps me understand you a bit."
I don't particularly think much of it atm, was just weird when I was reading them. I would say it was indicative of the fact he didn't want to ruffle feathers, but he's not been afraid to put himself out there, so it isn't that. His response reminds me of my own scum game. I showed no emotion that game, I just tried to remain logical and not to ruffle anyone's feathers, thinking that if I kept that up eventually people would stay away from me because I answered every question and reasoned away any doubt. @ JayI read some of the stuff in your linked games, and yes you lyched town D1 but I never saw you say anything remotely close to "well I guess I should be more careful of early bandwagons". Not during any of the games and not in the pre-games or post-games either. The thing is, you say you don't want to jump on an "easy bandwagon" this game, but you do. All you don't do is you haven't voted for thrawn, but he's the only person you've put pressure on. So why mention it? It's an easy way out. It seems like common sense. If I get on easy bandwagons as town. Shouldn't i avoid em? Im not you I don't find it necessary or needed to call people dumb or idiots like some players here do. It is it that unexpected to show some respect to people : / I call people dumb or idiots? So other than Thrawn, who is an easy bandwagon to you so should be avoided, who stands out as scummy? I didnt mean you specifically but some people in TL mafia do. I actually am starting to lean more neutral on Thrawn. In my early mind set I just couldnt see someone misclaiming as a joke, or risk getting them selves lynched. Im a little worried about our lurkers. And i would prefer to see more posts out of ZBoston. Specifically ZBoston what do you think about Claritys case on me and some people soft defending me. Also MunkE has had like 3 posts since his /in and every single one of them is mostly about WBG statistic. Do we really have to nitpick over something like that. WBG was mostly trying to bait Palmar out. Lets hear your thoughts on some cases On Vivax its odd. He seems really interested in going after Thrawns claim and saying that Ve defended it as a joke. When its not a joke. Even when thrawn said his self it was just a joke. That he stubbornly. Refused to explain to generate discussion. I think he is concentrating on thrawns little joke to much to the exclusion of everything else. I can see him being scum. ##Vote Vivax(Because some people get SOOOOO antsy if you dont follow your argument with your vote.) ....HE TAKES IT ALL BACK ANYWAY! That's right, after the whole song and dance about being SOO FRUSTRATED with how he wasn't being paid attention to, and how his motivations only make sense from scum perspective, and in the face of people he has SPECIFICALLY asked their opinion of disagreeing with him, and EVERYTHING....he takes it all back anyway. Because thrawn said it was a joke and it was to generate discussion. Cool. Die. ##Unvote: Vivax
##Vote: jaybrundageI'm going to go reread Vivax now and see if I still think he's scum. This changes things, because I had intended to spend this time writing a case on Vivax...but after reading the votecount and realizing that this jayb wagon was for real, I thought I'd check into him first. I'm glad I did, but now jaybrundage is voting for Vivax as well. We'll see what a reread brings. This is a huge derail if I've ever seen one... VE you have nothing to comment on Tunkeg or anyone other than jay? On December 11 2012 16:24 jaybrundage wrote:
Hm so the "easy" bandwagon rolls. I finished watching palmars video ( YOU'RE video was educational to say the least) although YOUR in need of a better way to record video it got really pixely when you scrolled. ha ha suck my grammar.
In response to my badly thought out posts. I was trying to put pressure on thrawn to explain his reasoning. While my threats may not of been great I did eventually got thrawn to explain himself. Its odd people say that I was going back and forth with my view of thrawn. And honestly i didnt know what the hell he was. However i did think it was anti town. But enough of that. Tmw i will reread some of the cases and give my thoughts on which one i will support.
However if i do get lynched which seems likely i would ask people whats the next step when i flip town. But ill do my best to prevent that from happening. I'm curious, did you capitalize "you're" and "your" to demonstrate how much you don't understand how to use the two? :p + Show Spoiler +haha I just found that really funny for some reason So you want me to do dumb things is that what you are saying. I know you treat this game like a schooldebate, where winning the arguement is more important than actually being right. And I know you like to twist and turn stuff to make your arguements look good. But that don't fly with me, stick to facts (like: Tunkeg is not playing exactly like he did in this and this game), don't try to strengthen your arguements with lies (Like you now saying you think I was scumhunting in those games, when you clearly stated how useless it was back then). If you stick with what is true you should be able to lynch me if I were scum. If you start presenting lies and twisting words you might get me lynched even though I am town. This post right here is why I'm not interested in lynching Tunkeg today. wherebugsgo is very opinionated about the play of others, and isn't a bit shy about calling out their play if he sees it as "bad" or "dumb". This post by Tunkeg seems genuinely confused by Bugs' assertion that his play this game is unlike his play in other, town games because Bugs has, in the past, called his play "bad" and "dumb". It seems scum would be more pissed off at the contradiction than confused - that scum would incredulously OMGUS such an assertion because it's clearly in contrast with what he had said at the time. His reads post reads EXACTLY like the "town" example Bugs provided, aside from the whole giving up and "me flipping town will confirm Palmar as town" nonsense...which could be contrived or honest - but frankly I'm not in the business of figuring out which today because I don't think Tunkeg is a good lynch today. Tunkeg's filter isn't spectacular, but it's way better than like, Bluelightz for example...or grush. I'd be more interested in a grush or Bluelightz lynch than Tunkeg. Certainly jaybrundage and Adam. I'm not touching Tunkeg with a 10 foot pole today. And Bugs, THAT is a derail bish.  Now, onto Adam.
I'd have expected a scum VE to profit of the situation by helping a player with a good reputation like marv to push his lynch and take away attention from the Adam lynch.
Him trying to lynch jay isn't compatible with theories involving both of them in a scum team either.Additionally, most people were mostly disinterested in a jay lynch, and that stinks of him being scum.
Bluelightz would have been an easy lynch to push at many timings, yet VE expressed his disbelief of him being scum, in spite of how easy of a mislynch he'd have been.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 13 2012 03:08 VisceraEyes wrote:
Going back and reading it again, I don't like it very much. It's strewn with true statements (scum care about how they look more than town, Bluelightz calls X strange instead of scummy, etc) but has too many suppositions for my liking. For instance, why is Blue calling something strange instead of scummy alignment indicative? Why can't it just be strange? Why does the fact that he found further reasoning for voting Adam NECESSARILY mean that he cares about looking like a sheep? Why can he not have just found further corroborating evidence and posted it?
To be honest, I'm not sure what I think about Bluelightz myself, but your case isn't convincing me of much - only that Bluelightz is playing, as marv said, like Bluelightz. Sorry I didn't respond sooner, but work, lynch, sleep, etc. I liked it before the flip - not so much after the flip. Especially considering Adam put Blue as one of his "probable scum". Of the three people I mentioned at the top of this post, I think Blue is the least likely to flip scum. Not saying much considering I think jay and Bugs have VERY HIGH chances of flipping scum, but Blue's the least likely in my opinion.
Then the case about a clarity scum vigi, initially I didn't believe it either, but it was actually possible.
I'm not lynching VE today.
That said, I suggest that Djo and others should at least elaborate my points.
That leaves me with following targets:
Jay or BL today.
Marv maybe some other day.
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EBWOP:
Bluelightz would have been an easy lynch to push at many timings, yet VE expressed his disbelief of him being scum, in spite of how easy of a mislynch he'd have been.
COULD have been, and not considering the option that they're a team.
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Forget what I said about VE, I'll lynch him aswell, but rather than djo. I just feel zero confident in the options right now.
And Palmar is going to find and lynch me irl if I don't kill one of them.
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Yeah, I still wonder why the scum vigi didn't hit N1 when you have been roleblocked, marv.
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Also, Hapa didn't vote in the voting thread.
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It's a possibility. I could imagine a 2 shot vigi + rolecop setup by now, since we didn't see any roleblocks N2, that against a Veteran, a JK and a vigi.
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Heh even without that, there's still nothing speaking for you being town except for buddying other townies, which doesn't mean shit, except that you'd be gullible as town player.
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You are discussing the matter on another level than on the level which would allow you to prove your innocence. For the first time in game.
Your last post against jay and Hapa was just a bunch of useless fluff.You quote things about jay I've mentioned ages before, but it's a strange timing for you to get interested into them, along with 100 other reasons I'm not arsed to post.
And you can hammer concerns about my playstyle into my head as long as you want, you just make yourself guilty more and more of what I did, so I don't see how exactly you are doing things better.
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EPT
